EP163. Sustainable beauty made simpler and smarter

Greenwashing is everywhere. You don't have to look very far to find companies making all sorts of far fetched claims about their environmental footprint, sometimes done completely innocently because it's hard to assess the impact of a beauty brand. And one topic that's come up a lot here on the Green Beauty Conversations podcast is the concept of life cycle assessment. Now, I studied LCA back when I was doing my postgraduate studies in environmental management 20 years ago, and I've been patiently waiting for the beauty industry to find a way of incorporating life cycle assessment. So the way that we assess a product's impact from the beginning of its life to its end into how the industry works. And so far, nothing's happened. Until now. So one entrepreneurial team based in California has set out to change this by creating the tool that all beauty and wellbeing brands need in order to assess their environmental impacts. But they haven't stopped there. They've then also created a really cool tool for communicating and benchmarking impacts with shoppers. Now imagine going on a website and being able to see how the face serum that you're about to buy stacks up against the industry average in terms of its environmental footprint. That's what Bluebird has created. So I'm very lucky to welcome Anisha Gupta, co founder of Bluebird, onto the podcast today. So settle in for a fascinating episode to learn about the latest tech in sustainable beauty that you need to know about. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make or sell your green beauty formulations. In my weekly episodes, I explore the sustainability of the beauty industry and encourage you to join me in changing the beauty industry for the better. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeier. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 180 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. And if you want to be the first to know what's happening in green beauty, make sure you subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast app. So in today's episode I'm joined by Anisha Gupta, co founder of Bluebird, a climate tech startup in the US that provides actionable tools to enable consumer brands to develop and source lower waste and lower carbon products from the start of their production development process, as well as make reductions over time and communicate Those efforts transparently with consumers and retailers. Bluebird currently works with a number of well known beauty and wellness brands. Anisha is a chemical engineer by training and was named on the Forbes 30 under 302022 list in the social impact category. So we're very lucky to have her with us today. Hi Anisha, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

I'm doing well, Having a good day, a little bit crazy, but excited to be here.

I am thrilled that you're here as well. So let's get to introductions. Tell me, what is Bluebird and why did you create it?

Yeah, Bluebird is a software company that helps consumer brands to understand how they're performing in terms of their sustainability profile, giving them tools to be able to source better products and also be able to reduce their impact and communicate their their impact to the market. So both consumers and retailers and what.

Inspired you to create it?

Yeah, so my background is all in consumer products. I'm a chemical engineer by background and then worked at Unilever across product development roles as well as supply chain roles and really found that these large companies really understand how to do sustainability sustainability. You know, on the large scale they have a lot of tooling available at their dispense and teams working on this, whereas smaller brands. After leaving Unilever, I had the opportunity to work with a bunch of smaller brands and they really had tons of problems across the board. They had difficulty sourcing sustainable options and really being able to talk about it with vendors they didn't have in house awareness of how products could even be considered sustainable. And so we really built Bluebird as a way to help brands to understand that and give these smaller brands tools to be able to do it.

That's amazing. And I know that you haven't been going that long. You've only been going for a couple of years, right?

Yeah, we started in early 2021, so it's just been about two years now.

Awesome. And I know that you've focused predominantly on beauty and well being as a sector to start with. So can you explain a little bit about why you chose that sector as the first sector to focus on?

Yeah, there's really a couple of reasons. So one, my background being from Unilever on the personal care side, as well as being able to work with a bunch of brand brands in this area. I just naturally had a lot of connections in this space and it's always more helpful to start a company and work with people where you actually know people in the space. But my co founder as well worked at Glossier on their e commerce team before starting the company with me. So we had a lot of contacts in the beauty space, but outside of that, there really just is a lot of opportunity for impact in this space and we weren't really seeing a whole lot of solutions addressing it. There's been, you know, some technology emerging in the apparel space and that's been really moving well. But I think in beauty, consumers are really starting to ask these hard questions, but we haven't seen a whole lot in terms of technology solutions to address it.

No, that makes perfect sense. Well, let's come back to something you talked about earlier, about the fact that there isn't, there aren't really these tools out there for small businesses. I know that some people who might be listening to this might be thinking, my gosh, my business is too small to really go into sustainability in that sort of level. So is there such a thing as a business being too small to embrace sustainability?

Honestly, no. And if you're smaller, it's actually better to, to start from the beginning. It's really tough as a small, as a much larger brand actually to, you know, kind of retrofit your supply chain after it's already been set up and dial it back and have to, you know, make new sourcing decisions, kind of uproot everything and be able to create new connections to be able to, you know, move everything over. There's a lot of logistical challenges with that as well. So with smaller brands you can actually make the right decisions from the beginning and scale that way and that makes it much easier for you provided you have, you know, tools, tooling and resources available to you.

Yeah, that makes total sense. So how does Bluebird work? You know, imagine I'm a small business, I've signed up to join. What happens next?

Yeah, so the easiest way to get started as a small brand, and we work with brands that are pre launch, have not even created any products yet, is to come into our new product development experience. So what that does is give you ways to plug in some information, very light details around, you know, where you're expecting to manufacture the product. So in what country or in what city where you're expecting to source the different options you're looking at in terms of packaging, what type of product you're choosing to make. So is it a face serum, is it a mascara, is it a toner? You can put in any of those different options and then once you start to add different components, you can then get a really quick evaluation of the carbon emissions impact and the waste impact of the product and how you've designed it, and also how that compares to industry. So we do a benchmark for every product type that we look at and actually allow you to compare versus the market for how you've designed the product to make sure that we are pushing the envelope when it comes to sustainability.

That's really fascinating. I mean, the idea of being able to say, here's my cleansing oil. This is its impact and this is the impact that other cleansing oils have on the market. I mean, that's quite revolutionary. I don't think anyone else is doing that at the moment, are they?

No, not from what we've seen. It's definitely been, you know, kind of years in the making as, you know, creating Bluebird. We worked with the creators of the Patagonia Environmental Assessment Program. They had created these types of life cycle assessment practices at Patagonia, but then also went on to consult and now done this for over 40 years combined between the two of them. And they've done this for many of the large beauty brands. So they helped us to build out those algorithms and really be able to put all of that math under the hood and all those assumptions that are used traditionally in lifecycle assessments. But by using technology, we can just use it for many, many. And do it repeatedly over time with the computing power.

Yeah, well, that's really amazing, actually. I mean, tying into that, how do the tools work that help you calculate your impacts? You've mentioned lifecycle assessment, you've mentioned carbon emissions. What sits under the hood? Yeah.

So under the hood is what's called a lifecycle assessment or a lifecycle analysis, depending on who you're talking to. So really that means that you're looking at all stages of the product, so you're looking at all of the materials that go into it from extraction. So if it's a chemical or an agricultural ingredient that has been grown, you look at that stage and kind of all of the energy and water and all the impacts that have gone into it and processing, you look at the manufacturing stage of not only the packaging components, but also of the product being filled itself, all of the transportation that happens all along that chain, all the way through to getting to the consumer's door, whether it be through retail or through direct to consumer shipping. So you basically calculate, by taking some inputs from the brand, what all of those different pieces of the supply chain are, and then we're able to use kind of the best standards on the market to be able to assess the impact from a carbon perspective. And then we also look at what's expected to end up in landfill or incineration from a waste perspective as well. There isn't quite a standard on the waste side that has been as accepted or as standardized as compared to carbon emissions, where there are many, many standards out there. But for waste, we've actually kind computed a way to understand recyclability as well. So is it going to be recycled based off of consumer behavior? And what actually is accepted in terms of curbside recycling? What are the materials and the size of each component and really giving you then the ways to assess that really easily, besides just asking your vendor for that information, because sometimes they don't know as well.

That's fascinating because, I mean, there are so many different types of packaging out there and the beauty industry uses so many different types of packaging that must be almost impossible to standardize. How did you put that together?

Yeah, so we just looked at all of the different sort of standards and guidelines that are out there. So in the US we have the how to recycle framework. We also looked at the association of Plastic Recyclers. We looked like really we swept the entire market in terms of all of the research that's out there. The Recycling Partnership has some really great materials as well. So really compiled that compared across all of the standards and came to a decision on, you know, what makes the most sense. So you, even for things like compostability, people are rushing to that and thinking that's a really, really great choice. But you know, there's a lot of, you know, the science really says that there's not that many people who have access to curbside composting or have home composting in their home. So it's more often than not that composted materials end up in landfill. So based on our sort of framework, it's actually one of the least desirable methods of, you know, optimizing for end of life when you look at compostability. So we really look at kind of the spectrum from ending up in landfill compostability and then higher than that is, you know, curbside recyclable and above that would be if you're able to actually extend the life cycle of the product. So making it, you know, a refillable material, a refillable product, or, you know, a reusable product.

So with that sort of model, are you then restricted to certain geographical regions? Because of course, curbside recycling supply will be different per country. Types of materials that can be recycled will be be different per country. How do you standardize that in different countries. Yeah.

We initially built the model just for the US We've since expanded into Canada as well and have been doing a lot of work to build out all of our support for the UK and for the eu, for all of the countries there. So starting with the top, you know, folks that we have on our platform and then going down from there. So I think by the time this episode comes out, we'll definitely have more.

Amazing. There's a lot of work that's gone into this, by the sounds of things.

Yes, yes, a lot of work, a lot of time. It took us almost a year to develop the algorithms that power the software and collect all of the data. And it's really just been in the last year that brands have started to be able to use it.

Incredible. Right? So you have these tools where you can calculate impact and benchmark your products, which I find fascinating. Then the next set of tools you have are what you term real time decision making tools for businesses that are using Bluebird. So what are they? How do they work?

Yeah, absolutely. So you're able to put in any either changes to products that you're looking at. So let's say, you know, your business is growing and you're thinking that you might be moving manufacturers because you've sort of, you know, you've wanted to revisit your business. You're finding that there's new economies of scale that you can leverage. So you're looking at a few different new vendor options either for packaging or even changing your contract manufacturer. You can plug in those details on what's the different packaging I'm changing to. So I might be changing materials, introducing additional recycled content, or, you know, introducing, you know, making it more lightweight because that's also a great way to reduce your impact. Or I might be moving locations as well. And traditionally it's been really hard to look at all of those things all at once. You kind of have to look at one factor and say, okay, what is the impact to transportation? If I move initially from it being produced in, you know, Italy to then it being produced in China, how does that impact my carbon emissions from transportation? And then looking at, you know, on the waste side, how does, you know, introducing a lighter weight component impact my waste? But this gives you then the tools to look at both carbon emissions and waste across all of those different factors in real time.

Wow. And I'm sure many small business owners need those tools because, as you say, it becomes a bit overwhelming otherwise. So you have a third component to this. All you've got the impact assessment, effectively, you've got the real time decision making tools and then you have the widget, which is of course the, the sexy thing that you see on the website. So tell me about this, what is this widget? Bluebird members can use it on their website. How does it work?

Well, thank you for referring to it as sexy. We love that. We don't hear that a lot in the carbon emissions world, but I appreciate that.

Yes.

So the widget really allows you to showcase your sustainability profile on site, on your product page for a specific product, for a brand. So brands like Dooskin Siblings increasingly Glow recipe, they're about to get theirs up as well. We have tons of brands using this now. They are able to put the carbon and waste benchmark directly on their site and then consumers can actually interact with it, get an understanding of what is that amount of waste equal to in the world. So you know, how many hours scrolling on TikTok is the impact of this product or how many flights between New York and LA does the impact of this brand take? So we, you know, really try to make it digestible and fun for consumers and then they can click into for, you know, those deep divers, we know that they're out there and probably listening to this podcast, there's the ability to click into a sustainability report or a transparency report. So you click into that and you get basically the full report that the brand sees internally. So that impact assessment and you then can look at the benchmarking data, be able to get what is the data that is substantiating the claims that the brand is making. Because increasingly in the UK as well as in the eu, there are all of these kind of claims guidelines that are coming out increasingly in the US as well. The FTC just went through a review period for their green guides in the us, so really there's regulation around greenwashing coming out everywhere and the requirements there are that you need to substantiate your claims, state what you're comparing to do a full lifecycle measurement across the life cycle of the product as I described it. So this really gives those brands that way to back up that data in a way that is compliant.

Incredible. Well, in effect, what you're creating is allowing brands to comply with many of those standards, which is fascinating. And I should just add, sustainability is sexy. So I'm standing by my statement. So do you feel that consumers are the shoppers out there? Do you think that they're using sustainability to guide their choices now? Or do you think that we still have a way to go with that, that?

Oh, I mean, absolutely. The data is definitely trending in that direction. There's a ton of reports out there. There was a recent report that just came out between McKinsey and Nielsen that is stating the increased trends on both loyalty for brands as well as for, you know, retaining consumers as well. So, you know, being able to bring consumers back on the basis of sustainability, but also to acquire new customers because that's one of the top things now on the list that consumers look for. I also recently read a beauty specific study that said that sustainability is now even more important in terms of bringing in consumers and retaining them than even, you know, sampling programs and, you know, being able to include, you know, that in your order to be able to, you know, keep their interest or even sometimes discounts and membership programs like that. So it's really up there in the top three and it's really something that you need to invest in and that consumers are getting more and more wise too and are asking more from brands.

Yeah, yeah. And as a beauty brand, if you're not doing anything about this already, you are going to get caught out in the coming years. But we've been saying this for a little while already. So what's the uptake of Bluebird been so far?

Yeah, so we now have dozens of brands on the platform. We are rapidly growing as well. We recently just launched a partnership with Pact Collective here in the US which is a partnership with Credo Beauty, which is one of the lead leading retailers in terms of clean beauty and sustainability here in the U.S. but we also, you know, are in talks with doing a webinar with Sephora in terms of having their Sephora clean, plus Planet Positive folks being able to actually use our tool as well. So a lot of these retailers are really increasingly leaning into having more and more stringent climate standards in addition to just, you know, looking at waste and, and sustainable packaging. So this is really giving those types of larger organizations the tools to hold their brands accountable. So I would look out for that in the coming months because I think by the time I've talked about this on this podcast, the news will already be out that Sephora will have revised their climate standards for brands.

Amazing. Well, I have no doubt that Bluebird will be playing quite a big role in that. And you've already talked a little bit about where you're going in the coming months, but where would you like to take Bluebird in the future long term?

Yeah. So we're really excited about the fact that we've been able to start in beauty and wellness, but there is opportunity across the consumer brand spectrum. There are tons of brands that we get in our inbox every day from food and beverage companies, apparel companies, who, yes, there's tooling out there, but it's not exactly what we're doing. The sexy widget seems to be, you know, calling people's attention, so really getting interest across different verticals. Last week I had a direct to consumer air conditioner company that wanted to use our widget and I was like, it's going to take a little while for us to build support for you because you know, when you're building that benchmarking data, it does take time to be able to get it right, make sure that we have enough data to actually have a sample size that is actually reasonable and actually represents the market. So that's where we want to go, is really making these tools accessible to everyone at a low cost because really, it's a way to, you know, make sure that people have just made this the way to do business as opposed to just an interest for brands that are really aligned and sustainability driven.

Amazing. Well, I look forward to watching Bluebird take on global domination. I'm sure before long the widget will be everywhere and everyone will be commenting on just how sexy it is. So where should brands go if they're interested in becoming a Bluebird subscriber? Where can they find you?

Yeah, they can find us on our website, which is bluebirdclimate.com and in there you can set up a free trial. We're just launching a free trial as well. So you'll be able to go in and try out the software and then from there you'll be able to get it signed up for a demo as well if you, you want to kind of develop more of a custom package.

Amazing. Well, we'll put all those links in the show notes as well. Anisha, it's been a real pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

See you soon. I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Have you spotted any Bluebird widgets on beauty websites? Are you also looking forward to the day that you can benchmark your beauty products against each other? Please do come and leave us a comment on our social channels and tell me what you think after listening to this episode. As both the Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you. And if you want to hear more about some of the topics we talked about today, please do delve back into the podcast archives. There are so many amazing episodes there. Go and listen to episode 111 in which I interview Mia Davis of Credo Beauty to talk about the sustainability of beauty samples. Mia is also one of the founders of the Pact Collective which Anisha talked about today. Or go and listen to episode 81 in which I interview Jesse Baker of Provenance, who have also created a really cool transparency tool which is different to Bluebird but just as amazing. Or head over Back to episode 144 when I put forward my thoughts on the future giants in beauty being the eco beauty pioneers of today. So thank you for joining Anisha and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy these conversations too. Make sure you subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica at Formula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn, you name it. We're everywhere. And come and follow me too at Lorraine Dharmeyer on Instagram so I always share the latest from the podcast past and share my thoughts on green and sustainable beauty. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com and sign up for our free online formulation course today.