EP171. Gen Z views on the future of beauty

The conversation around beauty has shifted enormously in the last few decades. When I was a little girl, the information we received about our beauty products came directly from the beauty brands themselves. I know I'm going to sound like a complete relic now for saying this, but the Internet in its current form didn't even exist at that time. So understandably, the brands were our only source of information. Then with the rise of the World Wide Web, all of a sudden we had a wealth of information at our fingertips, which has since led to the rise of so called skintelectuals people. People who are knowledgeable about the formulations they buy and the benefits of the ingredients inside them, and now tie that together with an increased awareness of the environmental issues that we face across the world. And it's no surprise then that Gen Z is therefore far better informed about beauty and to a certain degree, sustainability. So when I received a pitch to come on the podcast from a cosmetic science student who wanted to put forward how younger generations are now approaching sustainable beauty, I thought that was a fascinating topic. I'm 44 years old. We got the Internet at home when I was 15 in 1994. And none of my friends even had email. Social media didn't exist. In fact, one of my best friends today is the older brother of one of the girls I went to school with because he also had email and no one else to correspond with. So you see, I don't have that lived perspective of someone who's grown up surrounded by a mountain of information about cosmetics and the climate crisis. So settle in for a fascinating episode as we uncover what the younger generation is being taught about sustainable beauty. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make or sell your green beauty formulations. In my weekly episodes, I explore the sustainability of the beauty industry and encourage you to join me in changing the beauty industry for the better. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeyer. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist, and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school, Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 180 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs, visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. And if you want to be the first person to know what's happening in green and sustainable beauty, and I know you do, make sure you subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast. Appreciate. So in today's episode, I'm joined by Riley Cohen, graduate student at isipca, which stands for Institut Superieure Internationale du Parfum de la Cosmetique et de Lamentaire, which, as you can probably guess, is a French school based in Paris for postgraduate studies in perfume, cosmetic products and food flavor formulation. With an apprenticeship period in the industry, Riley is currently studying for her European cosmetic and fragrance master's degree, which gives students a background in both the marketing and business side of the industry, as well as the cosmetic science needed to undertake product development. Riley knew from 10th grade onwards that she wanted a career in cosmetic product development when her high school chemistry teacher said to her, oh, you should just make makeup. Being 22 years old also means that Riley brings a unique perspective as a younger shopper concerned with the environmental issues of our world, which blends perfectly with her studies on cosmetics, which is why I'm so thrilled that she's joining me today. Hi, Rylee, nice to see you. How are you doing today?

I'm doing really well.

How are you? I'm good and I'm really interested in this topic, so I'm thrilled that you pitched this to come on the podcast. Now we're going to talk about what the younger generation is being taught about sustainable beauty. So I think the first question I have for you really is how important do you think it is to younger shoppers to make more sustainable choices now in their cosmetics?

I think it's very important, first of all, because as I'm 22 years old, I think at least my whole life we've been told, like, we need to, like, everyone has an active role in healing the earth and everything like that. So I think it's kind of just instilled in the younger generations that, like, we need to be making these decisions and we need to be more conscious consumers. So I think that definitely is ingrained.

Right in us, which is good because it certainly wasn't necessarily when I was growing up. I'm 44 at the time that this interview comes out. And yes, I think I was one of the only people wearing Greenpeace T shirts to school when I was about 8, so. So why do you think sustainability is becoming a more important topic for younger shoppers?

I think a lot of it definitely is just the culture of today. Sustainability generally is a big concern, and I think brands and companies and conglomerates are all being held to a little bit higher standard. And I also think that, like I said, like, growing up with the idea that everyone's in this mess together and that, like, we need to be the ones to get out of it is definitely part of that.

Yeah, I totally understand. And that's great news for all of us, I think, because someone's gonna have to clean this mess up. So when I was growing up, the information about cosmetics came from the brands themselves. I mean, we didn't have the. Well, we got the Internet home when I was 15, which must sound insane. And clearly the way that we obtain information about cosmetics has changed dramatically and even in the last decade. So where do you think younger shoppers go now to find out about their cosmetics, about their ingredients, about formulations? What kind information is actually available out there?

Well, that's kind of two questions. I feel like the first one is where do the these younger people go? And I think for all being honest, it's going to be social media. I know during the pandemic especially I'm sure you've heard of the YouTuber Hiram. So a lot of people, I think that was a big thing because he talked about ingredients and like what is good for certain parts like of your skin and what we should stay away from and all of that. And also I follow these people on TikTok, Christina and Alexis, they're called the lipstick lesbians. And their product developer, or Christina's a product developer and she's just like super knowledgeable and she can tell, she will pick up a product at Sephora and be able to tell you like this foundation is made in Japan because of this, this and this. And she does talk about the quality of the ingredients and then also if they're like ethically sourced and stuff like that. But also, you know that social media and it's really just people's opinions. But I think people like, if I'm a consumer and I'm like, where am I going to go to get information? Probably an app. I'm sure if you've heard of like Think dirty that scans whatever product and it tells you all the ingredients that are in it. But the thing about these types of apps and even like these social media like influencers and stuff, it's really about like health and like skin health and less than it is about like the environment. But there is an app that I use cause cause cosmetics and that talks about the health but also kind of sometimes depending on the ingredient, like a little bit of like ethical things.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's. It's like there's a lot, there are a lot of influences out there talking about cosmetic chemistry, cosmetic science. There's been a real rise in cosmetic scientists who have significant followings online. But you're right. Very few of them are talking about the environmental components around beauty. So how reliable do you think the information is out there that's now available to consumers of all ages? Really?

That's a really good question. I think with great knowledge comes great responsibility. And just like all the apps and even the two influencers I was talking about, everything is biased like in the world. Just especially like the apps. They'll have one, it'll be like, fragrance is bad. Is like a. Oh, red. No. Well, okay, like, yes, but what. There are some fragrances that have literally destroyed drinking water and there's some fragrances that take like rose oil. Takes like 5000kg for one to make one. So it's as reliable as you. As you can make it. Obviously different taking from several sources is going to be more reliable than just having one TikToker that you're like, this is my holy grail. Like, I believe everything they say. But yeah, I think it's definitely difficult.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I think some of the apps that are out there, not naming any names, are also problematic at times because you lack the nuance when you rely on scoring systems and traffic light systems, unfortunately. But yes. So what do you think sustainability means in relation to beauty for younger consumers?

Well, I think it's hard because we are definitely greenwashing has done a lot. So sustainability, like what sustainability should mean is that we can maintain and use something for a long time. But I think when people hear sustainability, especially like younger people, it's like, okay, that's eco friendly or like green or whatever. And so that's tough. But at least now I know, especially in Europe, there are a lot of regulations that kind of are cracking down on that greenwashing.

So.

But unfortunately, I think to most people sustainability is just like, what's green or what's not? But talking more like what it should mean. Obviously circular beauty is so important to sustainability because that is a very easy way to maintain and use what we have. And there's one brand that I think does a pretty good job about this Illumi. It's a Nordic brand. And they actually, there's one, one of their, like trendy ingredients is a cloudberry. I think something like 10% of all the berries in Norway are even farmed because it's just they leave a lot and then anything that's not used from like eating or whatever, then they use that like, it's like trickle down, which is really cool.

So upcycled ingredients all the way. So in terms of, I Mean, obviously you're right. I think a lot of shoppers do think sustainability just means sort of green and eco friendly. Do you think there's confusion between the terms sustainable beauty and clean beauty? Do you think people often equate the two as the same thing?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm not gonna lie before, obviously I'm in this program now, but it's really easy, clean, green, everything. Like, it's really easy to get mixed up. And I kind of think, sorry, you know, just my opinion, but I kind of think they might do it on purpose sometimes. I don't know, maybe that's a hot take.

But I'm all here for the hot takes. Don't worry about it. So do you think. I mean, I've. I've polled a lot of people for this podcast and for instance, recently asked a large group of people if they'd be prepared to take their packaging to a refilling station. And the answers I received were complete mixed bag. You know, some people were like, hell no, I drive enough. I'm not doing that. And other people were like, oh, yes, absolutely. Now, obviously, to embrace sustainability, we have to make behavioral change on every level. Do you think the younger generation is prepared to accommodate those changes? Do you think perhaps they're more prepared to accommodate those changes?

I would say yes, just because, again, I think we've been told that we're going to need to. So I think most people, at least most people that I know are prepared to make those changes. But also I know people that don't even recycle. Like, I agree it's definitely a mixed bag, but also it definitely is like, what the culture is like where you're from, because I know it's a lot different from where I am in Washington state versus, like, I don't know, some other places. I feel like coasts are generally very like.

So you're a cosmetic science student at the moment. Can you tell me a little bit about what you're learning as part of your training? Because I think this will be very interesting for our listeners as well. And where are you studying? I know I explain all of this in the intro, but tell me a little bit more about it.

Yeah, so I'm studying at ASIPCA Paris, and it has a very long French name that I would absolutely butcher. What I'm studying is, or my program is called European Fragrance and Cosmetic Master. So the first year is about, like, formulation and then a bunch of other topics that I will come back to that. And the second year is a master's of Business. And then it has that like, marketing side because we're kind of being led to be like product developers or something like, like along those lines, not like formulation scientists. But in this year that I just finished in formulation, it was like we did a lot of just products like blush, mascara, lipstick, shampoo, whatever. But also we had a lot of classes on sustainability, on regulations, on active claims, what you can claim on a product, and like, all of that things. Skin physiology, stuff like that.

Are you covering anything on sustainability in there?

Yeah, we had, if I could really say in depth, but we definitely did have many topics or courses on sustainability. And one of them, we had to pick a company and then do a sustainability, like report and read the report and then like talk about ways that we would change it. Which I thought was kind of interesting because I'm like, what do I know? But I read it and I was like, no, I actually do know. I think you should do this, this and this.

That's interesting. Interesting to hear that the cosmetic science degrees of today are starting to mold the product developers of the of tomorrow to think about sustainability. So are you finding that your training is directing you more towards working for the big brands or do you get a lot of sort of freedom and creativity to explore the more green side of product development?

Obviously it's in Paris, they mainly work with like, or the school is partnered with a lot of like, big names and big brands. But we definitely do have the freedom if we, like find it ourselves. This summer I'm interning with this company out of Seattle called Vermouth and they, it's like a lipstick brand and the sustainability is very important. They right now are doing like all formulation in house and choose ingredients very specifically and all that stuff. But if you want to, you do have the freedom. But I would say we're kind of nudged in a certain direction.

But yeah, that does make sense because there aren't many cosmetic science degrees in the world and most chemists who end up working in cosmetic chemistry either just study pure chemistry and then specialize somehow, often on the job, or their biologists. And there isn't always a direct route. So it's very interesting to hear you say that because it makes sense, of course, that the big brands are basically effectively helping the cohort of tomorrow's product developers to come through to them. So we talked about, you know, how the shoppers, the younger generation is viewing sustainable beauty. How do you think beauty brands are now responding to younger shoppers?

Obviously they're going to listen to, they're going to listen to the dollar money. So they definitely. Generally when I go on social media, I feel like there's a more youthful appearance and I think that a lot of times or also trends, like social media trends are going by all the time and kind of currently maybe we're kind of exiting but like still in like. Well, it's funny. Clean girl aesthetic. I don't know if you've heard of that.

I have not. Maybe I'm showing my age here. Clean girl aesthetic.

I'm going to look that up. It's basically like very natural makeup and like just like beautiful skin and like little. Just enhancing your features is kind of what is the more popular look now? Whereas I think. But that's also just like who is popular right now, like what influencers are doing the most influencing. I think it was like Hailey Bieber, but before maybe like 2018 or something, it was like a lot heavier makeup. But obviously brands are going to follow whatever's happening. And right now what's happening is that people want to feel at least like they're making conscious decisions for the earth and they want to feel everything is happy and bright. And so I think like that's what we're seeing.

No, I think that's very interesting to hear. I mean, obviously we're on all the social platforms as well and there seems to be a shift in how the beauty brands are certainly responding to younger shoppers, which is great to see. My final question for you. How do you think that pressure from the younger generation will start to shape the sustainability of the cosmetics industry? Because you've got a very unique perspective here. You're being trained up to be part of that giant half a trillion dollar industry, but you're also 22 years old and looking at it from a shopper consumer perspective. So how do you think that pressure is going to change the sustainability of beauty long term?

Number one is transparency. To be completely honest, I don't know if five years ago I was really on my brand's websites, like looking at their impact reports and everything like that. But most people, transparency is at least a word that I'm seeing on a lot of websites recently. And that is something that every brand wants to say, like, we're transparent. Look at my sustainability report. We're transparent, like look at how many, whatever, look at my carbon footprint. So that's definitely, I think that's already something that maybe the younger generation has like shaped, if you want to say that. And then also along with that would be like holding companies accountable. I think again with Social media, you know, you have love it and you hate it when something bad happens. People are going to be on you like you're going to see it, it's going to go viral or whatever. And then also that things that may shape the beauty industry in the future is that I think consumers are more selective. Like I think there has been something, I don't know if maybe it was like during the pandemic that people, at least in my experience is like, you'd rather have a few really good products that you know you like and you know, work and that you know you like, stand by the brands. I think consumers are being more selective and because it's better to have a few products that you really like and then a bunch of products that you don't. And I think that if not already will be reflected in how the beauty industry is working and. But that's also goes right hand in hand with fashion as I think the beauty industry does in general. There's this whole thing that's like stop fast. Fashion obviously it's definitely, I would say, trickled down. I don't know if you could into beauty that it's like you have your things that you really like and you don't need like 20 lipsticks. So I think brands are definitely trying to at least have like mustige and look like really good.

Well, that should be optimistic for all of us because it sounds like in your opinion, at least what you're seeing, it's certainly changing for the better, which is great. Which is also what I'm seeing. So I'm delighted to hear that. Riley. It's been really lovely chatting to you. All the best with the rest of your degree and your internship. If anyone's listening and they want to connect further with you or maybe even hire you once you finish your degree. Where can they get in touch.

Oh my gosh. Hire. They could definitely get in touch with me on LinkedIn and then also I am on pretty much any social media. Riley Cowan. Because I am. Just because I'm young and I have a lot of social media so you can find me there all the time, all day.

Excellent. Well, we'll include those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's been really interesting talking to you.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Where do you learn about sustainable beauty online? Hopefully you're currently thinking through the Green Beauty Conversations podcast. Larae and how do you see beauty brands change their messaging for younger shoppers. Tell me what you think. Leave us a comment on our social channels as both the Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you. And if you want to learn more about some of the topics we covered, please do delve back into the podcast archives. Go and listen to episode 146, in which I imagine what the beauty industry will look like in the year 2100. This one's a little bit off Piste bear with me, but I decided to embrace some storytelling after interviewing Candice Joney in episode 145, which I also recommend you listen to where we talk about the nine boundaries of planetary care for beauty. Also, please check out episode 126, in which I ask whether we're ready for refillable beauty. And I referenced the poll that I put up in my chat with Riley today as well. There's a wealth of information in our old episodes and I do encourage you to go back and listen to them. Thank you for joining Riley and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy these conversations too. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica Formula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn we're everywhere and come and give me a follow at Lorraine Dallmere on Instagram Instagram. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com and sign up for our free online formulation course today.