EP193. Vintner's Daughter and the power of classic cult beauty

Creating a cult classic is the holy grail in the beauty industry because it means that customers will come back time and time again to buy it from you. And the beauty of creating a cult classic in cosmetics means that it is exactly that. It's a classic formulation that customers love using and that they don't want to see changing or disappearing. That formulation then generally also doesn't need updating. The brand selling it can simply continue to refer back to buying that classic formulation over and over again. And this is, of course, slightly at odds with the general ethos behind the beauty industry, which pushes for new and innovation all the time. After all, when you have something new to sell, you also have something else to sell to your customers. And this is of course, why so many of us have ended up with bathroom shelves filled with cosmetics that we don't necessarily use. Or if we do use all of them, having that many products may not actually be benefiting our skin. So it is always a breath of fresh air to meet a beauty brand owner who tries to do things differently. What would happen if you created a skincare brand that only focuses on making those classics, those cult classics that will never fall out of favor? Can you imagine being brave enough to launch and stick with only three products in your lineup? Well, my guest today, April Gargiulo of Vintner's Daughter, has done exactly that. Her brand has been around for over a decade now, and her success very much shows that much of that longevity is fueled by her mission, the strong community that she and her team have built around the business, and the boldness that she's shown in sticking with just three exquisite formulations. You will want to hear April's story. I promise it's going to inspire you so much. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make or sell your green beauty formulations. In my weekly episodes, I explore the sustainability of the beauty industry and encourage you to join me in changing the beauty industry for the better. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeier. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 190 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. And if you want to be the first person to know what's happening in green beauty, make sure you subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast app. So in Today's episode, I'm joined by April Gargiulo, founder and CEO of Vintner's Daughter, a skincare company committed to having a profound positive impact on the skin and world of its customers. Through its whole plant result orientated skincare, April's background in fine winemaking formed her exacting quality and craftsmanship standards. And before starting Vintner's Daughter, April spent eight years at the helm of her family's Napa Valley winery, Gardula Vineyards. She launched vintner's daughter in 2013 with a single game changing product, their active botanical serum. This quickly became a word of mouth cult favorite among editors, beauty enthusiasts, skincare professionals. And it made Vintner's Daughter one of the most coveted and beloved skincare brands. With a deep belief in the power of fewer and better products to positively impact the skin and our world, April leads her business with a core commitment to sustainability and giving back.

Hi, April, how are you doing today?

I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

I am really, really pleased that you're here as well, because this is going to be so interesting for our listeners and for me. So can you please start by introducing Vintner's Daughter to us?

What do you make?

Sure.

What do you say?

What do I make exactly? Magical, magical things. Okay, so I am the founder of Vintner's Daughter, and Vintner's Daughter is a performance driven nutritional skincare company. My background is, is in winemaking. My family makes wine here in Napa Valley. And I, you know, I. So I got to grow up around this incredible community that places enormous value on quality and on craftsmanship and how you make things, what, you know, the quality of the raw materials, how those raw materials are put together. It was something that in my family and at the community at large was impressed upon me at a young age that, you know, you can't take shortcuts, you can't cut corners to make the very finest of something. And I also, whatever. I had skin issues like, you know, whatever. I had cystic acne and pigmentation like well beyond my teenage years. And then, you know, all the things that come along as you get older. And I was using what I thought were the best products in the world. Wait, am I going too deep? Do you want me to.

This is good.

Oh, okay, okay. I don't know. I. Okay, okay. Just what, you know, stop me whenever. Anyway, so I was using what I thought were the very best products. They were certainly some of the most expensive products. I always joke that when my friends were buying expensive handbags, I was buying expensive cream. They can sell theirs on the real real now. And I'm, you know, so look, anyway, I'm so, you know, whatever, fast forward and I'm pregnant with my first daughter. And like many new moms, you start looking at all the ingredients of all the things we know, how it goes. And I did not, by no means did I expect these products I was using on my skin to be like, you know, whatever you imagine clean or green to be. That was not something I was anticipating, but I did not in 100 years realize they were as cheaply made as they were. And not only incredibly cheaply made, but also with like very little regard to like health and safety of my skin or the environment. And so coming from where I was coming from, this is how I'm going to sort of connect these two worlds, I think, you know, coming from where I was coming from this world of Napa Valley, of wine growing, where again, like I said, you never cut corners, you never take shortcuts. You know, you don't use cherry flavor number nine or oak flavor number two to make the very finest wines in the world. Right? And so I was looking at these, at these lotions and potions, very expensive lotions and potions I was using. And I realized they're all synthetics. Like, it's all synthetic. It's whatever their version, the cosmetic or, you know, skincare world's version of cherry flavor number nine and oak flavor number two is right. And so my idea that what I wanted to do was how do I create a skincare company that sits on that same philosophical foundation as winemaking, where you start with the finest raw materials in the world. And in our case, we start with whole plants very uniquely. We begin with some of the most nutrient rich whole plants in the world. And then, you know, through this very meticulous formulation process, we create, not wine, of course, but we create skincare. And we create some of the most performance driven and like I said at the beginning, performance driven nutritional skin care. And it all sits on like that same, like I said, that same philosophical foundation where you start with the finest raw materials, you honor those materials through really meticulous craftsmanship, and you create something that is incredibly greater than the sum of its parts. But for what we're doing this incredible kind of multi beneficial formulas.

Amazing. That sounds beautiful. Well, tell me about the formulations that you sell. How many have you got?

Only three. So we just celebrated, we're currently celebrating our 10 year anniversary I'll give you a little insight into Vintner's daughter and perhaps myself as well. In our office we have a huge poster that says not beauty as usual. And so you can pretty much understand that anything that happens within the beauty industry, that is kind of something that every single beauty company does in the world, like not on purpose, but we end up doing the opposite. You know, it just happens. And so most beauty companies are very much driven by revenue and obviously revenue is important, so don't get me wrong. But, but we're very much driven by skin. And so, and we, we also have to have revenue and profitability, of course, but it's not why we exist. The old, the kind of metaphor, I did not make this up, but the metaphor that, that I've heard several times is when people say we all have to breathe oxygen, but it's not why we exist, right? It's not why we're here. And so we have to have revenue, but it's not why we're here. So we exist to like have this incredibly positive impact on our community skin. And, and so we believe that we can do that with better made formulas that you can use fewer of. So we have three products. Active Renewal Cleanser, which is a cleanser. Active Treatment Essence, which is this incredible kind of eight in one super brightener hydrat. I want to bathe in it. And then, and then third is our Moisture Step, which is Active Botanical Serum. And actually Active Botanical Serum was our first product. So we had one product for five years, which, you know, is very unheard of. It was kind of. That was. Anyway, I got so much pushback on that and then released active treatment essence five years later and then active renewal cleanser five years after that. So three products in 10 years. I think that math works.

Yes, it does. And I have to say, you very kindly sent me the products before this podcast and I've been using them. They are absolutely super.

Your skin looks gorgeous.

Thank you. Thank you. So you've been running your brand for a decade and in that time you've released these three products, which is incredibly brave in an industry that pushes for more and new and more and new all the time. So what made you decide to take that approach and then stick with it? Because you already alluded to the fact there was a bit of pressure. So how did you ride that one out?

So it's, it, I mean, it's discipline, right? At the end of the day, it's not a super sexy, you know, word or a tech word or what have you, but It. It's discipline. And I think I was able to have discipline and. And kind of create discipline for our incredible team because we have such a kind of true and clear mission, like our vision. Our mission is true. It is something that isn't changing. Right. And I. I don't have investors on, you know, very intentionally, not to say that investment is bad, but I've built the. I can be very singular in, again, in our vision and in our mission. And so, again, it's like. It's discipline. It's funny. You know, I saw. I went to go see Trevor Noah, the comedian this week, and he. Exactly what you just asked me. He said on stage. It was so interesting because somebody asked him at the end of his show. People ask questions. The show was fantastic. He was hysterical. And somebody asked him, what's next? And he was like, this is next. Now is next. And his point was. And he said this. He's like, we're on this constant cycle of new and next and more and new and next and more, new, next and more. And the reality is that that's all driven by. He didn't say this. I'm adding this because I believe this. It's all driven by fear and the insecurity of not having something or not experiencing something. Right. And when you kind of go to the flip side and you have this abundance of less, it's counterintuitive, right? It's like, there's joy in less, right? There's joy in enough. There's. There's contentment in enough. And that's something that I practice personally, and it was something that I really wanted to, like, bring into Vitner's daughter.

I love that. That's very different to the way the whole beauty industry is set up. Well, the world.

The world is set up. Not just. Yeah, exactly.

But particularly this industry we're in. Everyone's constantly all about, let's launch more. So how did your customers respond to you just having these three beautiful, exquisite.

We have the best customers. Yeah, we have the most incredible customers. So we have the most kind of loyal customers. Community. Our community. And we've never done marketing. I mean, listen, I'm sitting here talking to you, and I'll talk to anybody who wants to listen, but, you know, we've never kind of paid marketing. And so the way people hear about us is really through friends. You know, I always say G to G, that's how we've grown, girlfriend to girlfriend. And every time I say that, there's many men who sort of say, hey, we Use it too. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm going to include you in that guy to guy maybe. But it is something that we've been extraordinarily fortunate. We have an, you know, an amazing community. And by the way, it's not as if they're not. Also anytime I kind of send or ask in a dm, like, hey, or not even. Sorry. Like, just on an Instagram post, like a public post. Hey, what would you guys like to see? It's amazing because they basically want us to make everything that they use, you know, so, you know, it's. It's good. It's good.

You'd have like 50 SKUs if you were.

No, it literally, it'd be like, you know, like, it, like shampoo, conditioner, body soap, body cream, you know, all of it. And not to say that we won't have. I would actually love to figure out, like the Vintner's Daughter version of Bodi. Our. As you can imagine, our standards are really, really high in terms of performance. And so to. To think about what that could look like is something that I'm really interested in.

Well, let's talk about those standards. Because you pride yourself on taking the time to manufacture your formulations and you embody this slow beauty approach. So can you walk me through what slow beauty means to you?

This is what we call it. We say that we move at the speed of quality. And so it goes back to this world again. This, this, this beautiful world of winemaking where you can't rush things. It takes the time it takes. Again, like, you're not going to use cherry flavor, number two, or oak flavor, right? It is that you have to go through the steps and you can't rush the steps. So, you know, again, we move at the speed of quality and we're really proud of that. And so what my amazing marketing team figured out is that it takes us 66 times longer to make every bottle of Vintner's Daughter than the average beauty. So it takes about three weeks, three to five weeks to make every bottle of Vintner's Daughter. And most skincare is made in a couple hours. And again, that's because we are starting with whole plants. We're not starting with powders or extracts or synthetics. We're starting with whole plants. Because, you know, just like our bodies, right, our bodies are never going to thrive off of processed food. Our bodies thrive off of whole foods. And so our skin, as our largest organ, also, we believe thrives off of whole foods. So it's why we begin with some of the most nutrient rich whole plants in the world.

Beautiful. Well, you say that you formulate ancient methods using old world craftsmanship, and you've just said it takes 66 times longer. So what does that actually mean from start to finish? What's involved?

Again, so we're, we're starting with whole plants. And so we're in. And new nutrients are either oil soluble or water soluble. Kind of interesting. Vitamin C, for instance, is a water soluble nutrient. Vitamin A is a oil soluble nutrient. We're creating these what I'm going to call infusions. And again, this is, it's technology, but it's ancient technology. And it's technology that takes a long time ultimately. And you know, for me, I thought three weeks was very fast because it takes, you know, three years to make a bottle of wine. So for me, I thought three weeks was nothing. It's all perspective. Right. I guess naivete and perspective were both on my side. And so to spend three weeks building a formula and creating a formula that's able to have this, like, very deep connection to the skin because of the way that we're formulating. I can't imagine it doing it any other way. And, and like I alluded to before, I mean, I got turned away. Nobody wanted to play with, nobody wanted to party. It was like, oh man, I had turned away from every lab there was. I mean, they were like, wait a second, we make everything else in three hours. And you want, you want me to what? You want us to spend three weeks on this? Excuse me.

What?

That was interesting. And then even, like just having a single product for five years was a challenge. It was at the height and it still exists to some degree, but I think people are starting to kind of come around to it. But it was at the height of this kind of like, you know, 25,000 step creation and skincare routine.

Yes.

And I don't know if you. Yeah, okay, you remember that. And it was this idea that, you know, the more products and steps you had, the closer to God you were. And.

Vocals.

Yes, right, right. And, and, which is absurd. I mean, which of course is absurd. And so not good for your skin. And so I, you know, I, I was saying, no, no, let's just use this one. You know, it can be, you know, it does so much. And retailers like, did not even know how to talk about a single product. Did not know how to merchandise a single product. It was like they just did not. They couldn't get their heads around it. And it was I'll tell you who saved my butt and who. I. To this day, I think, my gosh, they are like, the secret. Like the. I don't know if you remember this old movie, Usual Suspects, and the main character was Kaiser. So say. And he was like, right, okay, so they're. That they just run the whole show and you don't even know it is the makeup artists. So makeup artists found us, and these extraordinary makeup artists found us. And because they loved what Active Botanical Serum, our first product, did for skin, just created this, like, beautiful, even tone, kind of matte glow on the skin that they love to build on. Right? This, like, kind of. They created this palette. And so. And I. Again, this was just me in a room with a website, packing boxes. I did not have a PR team. It was. I mean, nothing, right? It was me. I was pregnant out to here. It was wild. Anyway, so somehow these makeup artists found us, and then they would tell their, you know, very famous clients and customers or clients, I guess. And. And then at the same time, Instagram was happening, and so it was. Yeah, so it was. It was a lot of, like, really kind of. I mean, listen, we build beautiful products, don't get me wrong. But it was also good timing.

Amazing. Well, I mean, how did you navigate those complexities with approaching labs, approaching retailers? Amazing to hear that the makeup artists got on board, but eventually you would have had to work with some labs at retailers, I'm assuming. So how did you navigate that at the time?

I have such deep belief in what we do and how we do it and what we make, that anytime someone says no, I don't even hear no, I hear, not yet. You just haven't seen the light yet. I don't know how to describe it, you know, because I have such a deep belief in what we're doing in our products that I think, okay, you just. Okay, that's cool. I'll come back. I'll come back and we can talk again in a couple weeks. And so that was. I mean, that was what. That's what it was. I mean, I can't even tell you our number one retailers, like retail partners, where we are. They are also their number one. Said no to me so many times. Like. Like, so many times. It's funny now.

That's spoken like a true entrepreneur, I have to say. So when we first met, you were telling me that you have three core ingredients that come back in all of your formulations.

What are they?

Why those again?

So every formulation starts with whole plants, right? And there's Three plants that we, that are, that are kind of the, the heart of every. And we call that infusion, we call it our phyto radiance infusion. Right. So this is this technology, old world technology that is at the heart of every formula we make. And so the first three plants that we start every phyto radiance infusion with are dandelion, nettle, alfalfa. Dandelion, nettle, alfalfa were literally referred to in ancient texts as the foods of life. These have been part of ancient cultures. Some of the most. You know, you talk about blue zones, inevitably one of these three, or a combination of the three are a part, a staple part of these blue zone diets. They are incredibly nutrient dense. And so we, and we know that they kind of form this kind of like holy trinity between the three of them. And so that's, that's where we start with those three. Every formula we ever make. And then we add whole, both whole botanicals to amplify whatever it is that we're trying to do. Right. So with cleanser it's this like perfectly balanced but, but really bright. And we also want the circulatory effect happening with cleanser. And then with Essence. I mean so much of it is similar but we're kind of going about it different ways. With Essence, we're delivering all that water soluble nutrition and so all this incredible brightening vitamin C, all these really balancing, beautiful kind of like barrier repair B vitamins. And then with serum we're delivering all the oil soluble nutrients. So vitamin A, all the omegas that are really incredibly nourishing, fortifying the skin, they help speed up cellular turnover. But it all starts with those three Alfalfa, dandelion and nettle.

They're beautiful. I also love the fact that you've chosen those because I go to a lot of trade shows and they're always talking about the latest, hottest thing that they've uncovered.

I know, right?

I literally never hear anyone talking about dandelion, nettle.

I know. Meanwhile, it's like they're the most. Because they're the most og there is. I mean, here's the thing, and this is what I try to say, I say often, like, Mother Nature does not have a PR team. Mother Nature does not have investors paying for clinicals. Right. By the way, if she did, she would crush everything. Like it would not even be funny. All these other things are trying to be approximations of nature. That's what they're doing. They're trying to be approximations of nature. Would you ever think your body would be its best by feeding it the most high tech meal replacement bars there are day in and day out? Absolutely not. No way. Right. Whole foods, like beautifully grown, consciously grown whole foods is what we know are going to feed our bodies. Again, it's the same with skin.

Okay, well, beautiful. Well, presumably lots of listeners now are immediately frantically looking up dandelion.

Well, there's Dandelion tea. You'll, you'll see, I mean, you'll, you'll start to, I mean you start to recognize that they are kind of, what do I want to say? Kind of like the, the heart of a lot of ancient medicinal kind of ideas.

Well, what does sustainability mean to you in the context of beauty? Because it's a conversation that's ongoing obviously all throughout the industry. But what does it mean for you and Vintner's Daughter?

Like I said, we have this very, we're very disciplined about our mission. And so our number one piece of our mission is to have this incredibly positive impact on our community skin. But we also want to have an incredibly positive impact on our world. And so for us, that means sustainability is at the heart of all of our decisions. So where does that. Yes, of course, that is packaging, of course, that is sourcing, of course, that is using the finest quality raw materials and making sure that the farms and the producers that we're getting those from are also living up to our values, not only of sustainability, environment, but also social values. Last year we finally got our, I mean we only tried for it once and got it, but it takes, it's a long process, our B Corp status. And so congratulations. Yeah, yeah. Which we're really proud of. B Corp is an extraordinary organization. Anytime you see a B corp on a product, you can, you can very safely, I can tell you, having gone through it, you can believe in the ethics and the ethos of that, of that company. And so we are also carbon neutral. We are also green certified at the very highest level. And so it is something that gets woven into every decision we make that is part of it. And then the kind of the other, other piece of that is the social impact piece. Right. And so, you know, again, we're considering that with all of our partners that we work with, how their community, their teams are treated, how those teams are paid and then our chair. So charity. So for every. This was, yeah, I, I remember when I first told a friend this, who's like an entrepreneur anyway, so 2% of top line revenue we give to charities benefiting women and children. That is twice as much as the most anyone does. And I remember a friend going, april, you know, that's the big number. And I was like, oh, wow, really? Did you just say that to me? Like, yeah, I do know that's the big number. Like, hey, yeah, I know. Yes, that's what we want to do. So. So we do that. We get to work some with some extraordinary organizations that are doing incredible work in the world. And so that's something that we really believe in. You didn't ask, but I'm going to tell you what that third leg of this kind of impact stool is that we think about. We want to have this incredibly positive impact on our community, skin, on their world, and then their lives. And we talk about the impact we want to have on their lives and we think about positive beauty. And so positive beauty for us means that we are not using words that create fear and insecurity. I do not think that our community is broken. So I am not going to use the word fix. I am not going to use the word improve. I am not going to use the word correct, because I don't think they're wrong. It's a word here and there, and I get it. It's like a little drop. But the reality is that after a lifetime, you've literally got like an ocean behind you of like fear and insecurity, that every time you read one of these words, it kind of all it gets triggered. And listen, could we sell more if I plaster those words all over our bottles? I'm sure. If I wrote anti aging over everything, I am sure. But I can't do it. I could not. I couldn't. I have two little girls. I couldn't do it. And so that is. That is a big part of how we show up in the world and how we support our community as well.

I couldn't agree more with you. What a wonderful mission you have and what a fantastic brand you've created there. And you've obviously been running it now for 10 years. Congratulations. That and it's a huge achievement. So what have been some main lessons that you've learned in that time?

10. 10 years underwater? No, I'm joking. It's actually really good. I actually, I feel gratitude every day that I'm as passionate today about it as I was 10 years ago. The biggest thing for me, and this was not something that has been kind of natural for me as a leader, is team and understanding how critical it is to have team that can, like, grow with you and kind of see around the corner that's the piece that I think has been the biggest lesson. Lesson for me is really recognizing how critical team is.

Yes, I hear you. I'm the same. I've also been going for over 10 years and yes, great.

Congratulations.

Quite something. Thank you very much. Well, let's talk about the future because I know, I mean there are obviously lots of, lots of things on the horizon.

What's next?

Continuing.

Yeah, what's next for.

I don't want to say.

No, I'm joking, I'm joking. I don't know what's next.

I think the question.

Actually, let me phrase this one differently. What are your hopes and dreams for the future of Vinda's daughter?

Okay, well, I mean listen, so we've been doing this for 10 years and I'm still shocked that other companies use anti aging and correct and fix and all these really gaslighting words. So I feel like we still have a lot of work to do there. We will have other products in our future. I, like I said I hope body but we'll, you know, we'll see it again. It, it, it has to really live up to really high standards. Three products surprises me, to be honest. Like after creating Active botanical Serum, I kind of was thinking, oh my gosh, how could I ever create anything better than this? And then, and then I realized, wait a second, that you know, that was all oil soluble moisture. Like there's an entire world of water soluble hydration that I need to kind of also get to the skin. And, and how are we going to do that? And then I had the, this moment of like, oh my God, none of it can get anywhere if you don't have the right cleanser. Like there's, you know, like and so, you know, it, it sort of evolves like that. I hope that we can continue to have this incredibly positive impact on our community. I mean that is like our driving force.

That's number one and that's absolutely beautiful and I have no doubt that you will continue to achieve that. April, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where can people find out more about you, your work, Vintner's daughter. Where can they come and buy your.

Vintnersdaughter.com facing k liberty cult Beauty all of the and then in the US Violet Gray goop. We have incredible, we have incredible retail partners.

Amazing. We will include your links with the show notes and please everyone do go and check out business daughter. April, thank you so much for talking to you today.

Oh my gosh, thank you. I'm so appreciative for you having me. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Bye.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. How has April's story inspired you? Leave us a comment on our social channels as both the Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you. And if you do want to hear more from other beauty brand founders who do things slightly differently, please do delve back into the podcast archives. Go and listen to episode 137 in which I interviewed Melody Reynolds of Elate Cosmetics on her mission to get her customers to buy less. Or episode 109 in which I spoke to Tara Pelletier of Meow Meow Tweet on the way that they help their customers reduce overconsumption by going for bulk buys. Or episode 87 in which I interviewed Formula Botanica graduates and founders of Bybee Beauty, Elsie and Dominika on their mission to create carbon negative formulations. There is a wealth of information in our old episodes and I do encourage you to go back and listen to them. Thank you for joining April and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy these conversations too. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is and stay tuned for our next episode. Follow Formula Botanica Formula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, TikTok, Twitter or LinkedIn. We're everywhere and come and give me a Follow Lorraine Dallmeyer on Instagram, visit our website@formulabotanica.com and subscribe up for our free online formulation course today.