EP199. Upcycling and zero waste with O&3, The Oil Family

Every formulator will know how amazing carrier oils are in skincare and hair care. In fact, many formulators choose to only work with oils because they are such effective and beautiful ingredients. Now, luckily, various oil producers have now started using waste ingredients to create what they call zero waste oils, which are not only great for us as formulators, but also meet important principles of environmental sustainability. So a number of years ago the supermarkets decided that they had a demand for seedless or pulpless jams and juices and this decision created a lot more waste in the production of jams, concentrates, juices, etc. Because the excess pulp and seeds that were removed were then left as waste and some of this waste was utilized as natural fertiliser, but the majority of it, together with its natural goodness, was just left to waste. Now, luckily, soon enough a market emerged and the seeds and pulp were saved so they could be further processed and have their oils extracted from them. A cosmetic goldmine was therefore discovered by creating these beautiful oils that all have lovely skin and hair benefits and my guest today on the podcast, Thomas Kerfoot of O&3 and inky ingredients creates many of these beautiful oils at the facilities run by the company that he co founded with his family. So you need to hear how upcycling is the future of cosmetics, so settle in for an interview that will help you connect more with your cosmetic oils than ever before. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make or sell your green beauty formulations. In my weekly episodes I explore the sustainability of the beauty industry and encourage you to join me in changing the beauty industry for the better. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallnayer. I'm a Chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 190 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. And if you want to be the first person to know what's happening in green beauty, make sure you subscribe to this podcast in your favorite podcast app. So in today's episode I'm joined by Thomas Kerfoot, the co founder and commercial director of Owen 3, the oil family and self proclaimed oil nerd. I love this. Owen3 is one of Europe's largest natural oil ingredient suppliers with operations in the uk, Poland and the usa. The company prides itself on a core focus of natural and Organic ingredients that are not only functional but wherever possible also planet friendly. Ranging from seed oils to essential oils, butters, waxes to exfoliants. Owen3 has a diverse supply chain throughout the world, importing from 48 different origins, delivering ingredients from far fetched communities directly to startup indie brands and also some of the world's most recognisable cosmetic companies. Owen3 has really made strides to focus on zero waste oil production with the implementation of its cold press facility in Poland. Hi Thomas, how are you doing today?

I'm great Lorraine, thank you so much for having me. I hope you're well.

I am and I'm really looking forward to this chat. So for our listeners can you please tell us what you do, what companies you run? Tell us everything.

Yeah, so I'm Thomas Kerfer, I'm co founder of a company called Owen 3, also within the own 3 company and direct to business online brand called Inky Ingredients in K Y Ingredients and essentially we are a natural oil ingredients both manufacturer but also distributor of ingredients from various origins around the world to clients throughout the world as well. So we are a natural ingredient supplier essentially.

Amazing. And in the bio that I read out before we started with this interview, you call yourself a self proclaimed oil nerd which I suppose already sort of feeds in into the type of ingredients yourself. So can you tell us a little bit about what sort of ingredients do you have at Owen 3 and at Inkey Ingredients?

Yeah, I mean first of all I self declared oil nerd, however sad that sounds, it is all that I know. I've been doing this for 16, 17 years of my life now. I grew up within the industry. I was very fortunately to be introduced into this industry by my parents long, long time ago. Now it feels. So yeah it's something I'm particularly passionate about providing ingredient solutions to clients all over the world, formulating their cosmetic. I mean in terms of the ingredients that we offer we tend to stick to a number of categories. So refined oils, cold pressed oils, essential oils, butters, waxes and exfoliants all we try and stick within our knowledge base which is natural sort of seed derived ingredients. And so what we're doing is we are working with some very remote origins around the world, bringing in their ingredients that they're creating within their communities, whether it's in a rainforest or a very remote farm, bringing them in, cleaning them up ourselves and making them presentable to essentially the western world really to meet cosmetic standards. And that's essentially what we're doing.

That's incredible. Can you give US an example of what sort of ingredients you're introducing to us all.

Yeah, so I mean probably our most famous category is really our cold press category. So we are dealing with for example the Amazonian rainforest which you know is obviously a very popular category, has been for a number of years. We're dealing with African origin producers of butters. You know, I think most of all the most passionate thing that we are about, I mean we are essentially set up in the UK which is our headquarters, also the US but then also we set up three years ago in Poland due to the Brexit scenario which actually has, although not the most ideal situation to be in for a bit at the time is actually worked in our favor because we have managed to build a facility that is actually producing oils which is up and running now. And you know we are, we're based amongst the fruit fields orchards in Poland so we are taking a lot of the waste which I'm sure we'll get onto and cold pressing a lot of our own oils which is giving us far more control over the supply chain and giving that transparency to our client base which is, which is fantastic, incredible.

And just for our listeners because I know I'm going to get this question otherwise, do you provide smaller quantities for indie beauty brands as well?

So our client base is so broad and it's something that we're particularly proud of and we have a saying at OWN three we do not turn our those up at quantities. It is why we introduced the direct to business online company in key ingredients so that our ingredients are accessible to everybody. You know, we as a company we promote the use of natural ingredients to even consumers because we feel responsible about educating a consumer about the benefits of using them. And yeah, so not only to people that are actually manufacturing with them. So our quantities are anything from 10 mils all the way up to 1 metric ton IBC. So you know, we're dealing with the big global brand names that we're all familiar with. And then most of all we're probably our favorite category. We're dealing with the indie starter brands and the reason for that is because we, we have witnessed so many wonderful stories of starting with I always use Mr. Or Mrs. Jones. I know it's Mr. Mrs. Jones at home starting in their kitchen. Tom, can I please have 200 mils of these 50 different ingredients because I'm starting a cosmetic brand and we've seen that journey and the loyalty is there and we handhold through that journey because it isn't as you know Lorraine, it's an incredibly difficult industry to get into at times because there's a lot of box to tick and a lot of regulations to go through. So that hand holding process is something that we really enjoy doing and watching brands grow. So that's why we love Formula Botanica students.

Thank you very much. I just want to delve into something you said earlier. Actually, I'm veering off my questions here. You said your parents started with oils and you grew up in that sort of oil family. And I know you founded O&3 with your sisters. What was it like coming from a family that was all into plant based oils?

Yeah, I mean, really interesting. It's a strange family background. I mean, essentially, long story short, my father, in the 80s, he worked for a company lots of people will know called Cargill. He was a soybean trader. And my mother and father didn't have a great deal at the time. And my mother was an accountant. And while my dad was trading soybeans out of Rotterdam, he identified an opportunity to basically set up an independent vegetable oil supplier in the uk, predominantly for the food industry. So he was basically bringing in tankers of soya sunflower rapeseed oil, packing it down into 20 liter containers and much of the time himself, and then redistributing it to restaurants and pubs and things like that. So it really was humble beginnings. And, you know, he started in a spare room of my mother and father's bungalow back in the 80s and then that grew into one of the largest independent suppliers of veg oil in the uk. That all transitioned and grew and I graduated. I joined along with my two sisters, Jennifer and Eleanor. They exited that business a number of years ago. And the three of us, we wanted to start our own entrepreneurial journey. We felt at the time, from our experience in the sector, that the industry needed a shake up. It was quite archaic. We felt that indie brands, smaller producers, were quite intimidated to approach big distributor brands. So we wanted to create Owen 3, which really, we call ourselves the oil family because of our heritage, but also because we, however corny it sounds, we view our employees, our client base, very much as our wider family. And so there is no. Everyone's included. Everyone is given the opportunity to have access to ingredients which at times are really difficult to access for people with the necessary quality and accreditations back behind them. So to answer your question, it was weird. We had family arguments around the dinner table talking about rapeseed oil positions. Do we go long, do we go short? Currency. So, you know, we grew up around Mum and Dad not arguing about who was dropping kids off to school. It was about seed positions and things like that. So it was a good insight to the world, that's for sure.

I love that. So you were destined to do this all along? Well, let's talk about those oils because you mentioned already that you've got this facility in Poland which I think is, as you said, quite a recent thing, last few years. So you're really passionate about upcycling. Why?

The timing of me in terms of my career of entering this industry, I mean, I've been so lucky. I can't put it down to skill or anything like that because as I sort of entered this world, people were starting to talk about organics and waste and natural and all those buzzwords that we're so familiar with. And that has only grew stronger throughout the past 15, 16 years I've been involved in the sector and zero waste and upcycling has become such a key topic. And what I find is we see trends quarterly annually in our sector, but zero waste upcycling has not gone anywhere. It's been a big topic and I think it hasn't gone anywhere because it's not been fully addressed and conquered yet by anyone. We're all very familiar with the topics of greenwashing and all that jazz, which I'm sure we could talk for hours about, but I think these haven't gone anywhere because there isn't a full blown solution yet. But I do believe with Owen3 and other suppliers out there similar to us, that there are some great ingredients that do tick these boxes, which I'm here to sort of promote, talk about and say why they are a solution to a lot of these natural skincare brands.

So what is a zero waste oil, essentially?

Zero waste is what it says on the tin, really. There's no waste in the production process. So all elements of the raw material are used. If there is any byproduct, it's further upcycled. So, you know, we link the zero waste into the upcycling and the upcycling obviously is the use of secondary goods or by products. So, so, yeah, and that's essentially what we're up to in Poland. So some great examples of that we, we are dealing with, with agents in Poland that basically go into fruit juice, jam, Jell O. I think, as they say in the us, producers and buying the waste because believe it or not, a lot of these supermarket chains now are responsible for the waste that is generated. Right. So strawberry jam is a great one that Consumers do not want seeds stuck in their teeth when they're eating their toast. So there's a huge demand for seedless jam and there has been for a long time. But that plays into our favor because essentially the waste, the seeds, the pulp that was being thrown away at that time, we can now have access to that. The seeds are then taken dried, filtered accordingly, and essentially we bring it to our facility, we press it in our facility and creating a wonderful rich oil. And there are a number of examples of that. And so that's essentially what we do. But so just the further down of that is that we are creating waste when we're pressing something like strawberry oil. So we call it meal, which is basically the seeds all crushed together as a byproduct, but all of that meal is highly nutritious for animal feed. So it all goes back into the food chain. And to be honest, for the farmers that we can't produce enough of it, they love it. So that's incredible.

So would you say that in terms of oils in particular, is it mainly centered around food based waste? Because that's obviously what you've got. I mean, you talked earlier about the fact that your facility in Poland is surrounded by this fruit growing area. Is it mainly food and fruits?

Yes, exactly. So it either really comes from two way. It's the waste of the food production as I just described, or juice industry, or it is rejects. And again, unfortunately, the big supermarket chains are responsible for it because they do not like a certain shape of a certain fruit, an avocado or whatever, it doesn't pass their specification in terms of size and shape, which is just ridiculous in all our minds. But that then lends itself to us where we can then pick those up and utilize those rejects. It's very big in the nut world. So a lot of the nuts, if they don't meet sort of the style specifications, as we will put it, then those nuts are reused for the pressing of the oil.

That's absolutely nuts. Sorry, I mean, no pun intended, but that is just crazy. I can't believe that a supermarket would go, this nut doesn't look aesthetically pleasing enough.

So, yeah, it's madness. I might steal that line off you.

Actually really wasn't intentional, but there you go. So what sort of volumes are you dealing with here when you go and collect some of this waste?

Yeah, so last year we actually, we didn't produce all of it ourselves, but we sold around 500 tonnes of zero waste ingredients across our business, which we are incredibly proud of. And we look at continuing to grow as we add more manufacturing into our facility in Poland. And it's just worth adding that the stuff that's produced in Poland, the UK clients, no panic about customs and stuff, we bring that into the UK also so that people have access to that. But yeah, so we produced a lot. And the key thing about what we've done here at Own3 and Inkey Ingredients is that there's a lot of people out there that are, that will say this is zero waste. But can you actually prove it? And so we've worked tirelessly over the past couple of years to create a pim, which is a product information management system, which we've just launched. And that basically is a snapshot of every single ingredient that we're offering, every bit of detail. The client needs to reassure them that when they're putting that product on the shelf of Sephora or their trade show, wherever they're selling their product, that they can stand by that being zero waste. So we've drilled into the supply chain of the stuff that we don't produce, but the stuff that we do produce, we are making it abundantly clear to formulators, so they've got that peace of mind.

Incredible. So you're dealing with quite big volumes there. How hard is it to clean it, to dry it? What's involved in that?

Yeah, I mean, very fortunately with the stuff that we are producing, we do not do any of the preparation of the seed, we are simply taking the seed ready for press. So we rely on third parties to do that for us. But there is an independent between the juice manufacturer and us that basically does all of that for us. So that's ideal. So we will test for moisture, that kind of thing, to ensure. Because it's not as simple as getting seed pressed, pressing it and putting in. You've got to make sure that the parameters are perfect for the condition of the seed for pressing, because cold pressed oils, as we all know, are prone to high peroxide values. Peroxide values, that is oxidization. And if you have a high peroxide value seed oil, then essentially your products can go rancid at a faster rate. So we monitor the seeds accordingly, batch to batch, to ensure that we've got as low a PV as possible.

Amazing. So where does your US facility fit into all of this?

So we're not actually launched in the US yet. With regards to the us, I'm based over here along with a colleague and the intention is to actually get more of our products over to the US in the coming months, which is Exciting. The US in my view is a few years behind that of Europe in terms of trends. The waste trend is very apparent here, but it is not as strong as it is in Europe. And so we're trying to react that by getting as much of our product over here with our partners IMCD as soon as possible. So it's in the works.

Exciting. What are you starting to see customers then ask more about upcycling, about zero waste about that whole piece because I hear what you're saying about there being a slight difference between the US and Europe, but what are people talking about in general?

I think the zero waste upcycling things comes hand in hand and I mean circular beauty. It's a tick box for pretty much every brand nowadays. There's so much pressure from consumers, which I think is brilliant because I think all of this is driven by the consumer. Right? And interestingly, what we're seeing is the startups, the Formula Botanica sort of brands, indie brands are driving, putting so much pressure on the big global brands, which obviously when you're big it's very hard to adapt to new practices. But these startups are coming in and they're saying, right, we can prove this, this, this. And the big boys and girls of the world are really struggling to sort of keep up, which is why we see these incredible acqu of some really entrepreneurial brands, as I'm sure you've seen with your students by big companies, because they're like, we need to tick a box quickly and get some kind of zero waste upcycling brands in our portfolio, which is really, really cool to see. So yeah, so we're seeing that. I mean, I think really on the other side of the coin, the difficult thing is about evidence based ingredients. And as I said earlier, cold pressed oils are really hard, so are really easy for us to prove their zero waste upcycling benefits. But then there are a lot of other natural ingredients that just are not sustainable. And that's something I always find tricky because we often get a lot of questions about I want to use avocado oil in my formulation and it needs to be natural, it needs to be sustainable. And we have to go back with these people and say, look, if you really drill into this ingredient, yes, it is a natural ingredient, do not let that confuse the whole sustainability factor because avocados is probably one of the most unsustainable products out there. And I think the problem is that the boundaries are so hazy between natural and sustainable that people think, oh, avocado, it's great for the world. It's great for you. It's not good for the world. It uses, I think circa 2 tons of water to create 3 or 4 kilos of avocado. I mean, there's nothing sustainable about that. So that's where I find things really tricky in this world.

Yeah, we've covered this a lot on the podcast in the past as well because there is that real haziness, as you say, between the two terms. Well, on that note, do you ever see any suppliers, and we don't need to name any names, but who make sort of tenuous claims about upcycling, which almost veers more into greenwashing because obviously you've got your zero waste process down beautifully with these cold pressed oils that you were talking about. But do you see the industry make some really dodgy claims about their ingredients?

Yes, and I don't just think in the natural sector, I think in lots of others it's really apparent and we see it often at the avocado example I gave is like people will call it sustainable and they'll say that rainwater is used and all of that and prove that's fine, just prove it. And it's again, it's going back to evidence based ingredients and giving that the necessary evidence. So we do, we do see that. But I think part of the problem is I think we have made great progress with regards to accreditations and with Cosmos and we work a lot with the Great Soil association in terms of natural claims, but we're not seeing that in terms of upcycle and zero waste claims. And I think if people were required to sort of legally report data with regards to upcycling and waste in the production of that ingredient, I think we would be in a much better place. But there is none of that right now and that doesn't help anybody. We're crying for it because, I mean, we've got some incredible data to share with us. The zero waste elements of cold pressed oils, it's just not there, unfortunately.

So are there any limitations to upcycling cosmetic ingredients?

Yes, there are products again similar to that of avocado that it's going to be very hard to tick those boxes. Now, funnily enough, I was reflecting yesterday on the essential oils category. There's still a lot of waste in that sector and people are doing some really fun and quirky stuff with let's say lavender oil. I mean, I think the yield of lavender is something like 2 to 3%. So that's a lot of lavender Herb that you're needing to produce an essential oil. Some of the more boutique y lavender distillers are doing some funky stuff with the waste of the lavender flowers essentially, but there is just too much of it and there's only so much you can do with lavender waste. And there's a lot of essential oils that fit that category. And I think that's the tricky thing. There's always composting and using as natural fertilizer, that kind of thing. But I think those are going to be the kind of essential oils is the tricky category with regards to waste. I mean orange peels, for example, you know, from producing from sweet orange oil, which is a very popular essential oil. A lot of waste on the byproduct side to grow and everything. Fantastic. But on the byproduct side, what do we do with that waste? And those are going to be the tricky ones to conquer.

Yeah. So in terms of upcycling, do you think this is the way that you see the ingredient suppliers of the world moving? Do you think everyone's going to start moving towards this concept of upcycling in their cosmetics eventually?

Absolutely. I mean, I think it's, you know, it's already happening. It's going back to. I think an accreditation would do the world of good for these topics. I'm not one for wanting more accreditations. Trust me, we have enough of them. But this one I think would actually make a huge amount of impact out there. Everyone's venturing that way. It is a topic that is going nowhere. There's still a huge amount of work to do. I always talk about it, I always with cosmetic brands is that I think there's so much more work to be done on the packaging side of things. The packaging side is terrible. I don't feel like it's got the momentum that the ingredients does. And just from a distributor sort of behind the contract manufacturers brand scene is bulk packaging. So 200 kilo drums, five kilo drums that we're shipping these products in. Some of the demands that we get with regards to new packaging and that kind of thing. It does frustrate me because I think there's a lot of work to be done in that area. They're all heading that way. As I said earlier, these startup brands are putting so much pressure on the market to do that. So anyone in your student category starting at a line upcycling, zero waste has to be part of that messaging.

Yes. And you're at the forefront of that, which is very exciting. So let's Talk about Inky Ingredients, because you've just launched this new website. It's specifically for the small makers or even, as you say, the consumers themselves. So what's your big dream for Inkey Ingredients?

It's a real passion project for us because we get contacted a lot by people that send lovely emails into us saying, look, I'm just starting out and can you help me? And so Inky ingredients in k y- ingredients.com is basically designed for those people where they will be able to go. Our product information system is sat behind it, so they will have every bit of information they need to make informed decisions about what ingredients they want to put into their products. And not only that is that they can order those online to Europe uk with the US to come further down the line. They can buy it in whatever quantities. So there's no intimidation factor in ordering. Oh, gosh, I can't stretch to ordering a kilo or 5 kilos. You can order 200 mils, 50 milliliters if that's all that you need. So I know that that appeals to your student base because we deal with a lot of them already. But from a business perspective, it kind of streamlines our process because this industry is all about two things. It always has been is speed and, yeah, speed of getting back to people because everyone needs it tomorrow. But secondly, speed of information and quality of information. So everything will be on there for formulated to make that informed decision, which is really exciting for us and I hope just, you know, gets these wonderful ingredients into far more skincare lines.

Exciting. Well, we will include the link for inkey- ingredients.com with the podcast. Please, everyone do go and check it out because I have no doubt it will be absolutely brilliant. So where can people learn more about you, Thomas, about Owen 3 and about Inkey?

I'm not sure anyone wants to learn any more about me, an oil geek. Isn't that interesting learn about, but no, yeah, please do check us out. We're www.oand3.com. It's not a great name. We realized that three years into our startup, but it means oil. And those three founders, myself, my two wonderful older sisters, Jennifer and Eleanor. So that is why we're called Owen 3. And then if you have any questions about Inky Ingredients and how you want to buy it online, then please drop us an email and we can introduce you to that site. But it is inky- ingredients.com so go check us.

Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Thomas. It's been a real Pleasure talking to you Lorraine.

Thank you so much and thank you all the students. We love you guys. You're a great bunch to deal with. So yeah, see you soon.

Thanks. I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Have you tried zero waste oils before? How do you feel about using upcycled ingredients? Does this excite you as much as it excites me? Tell me what you think. Leave us a comment on our social channels as both the Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you. And if you want to hear more about some of the topics that we covered today, please do delve back into the podcast archives. Go and listen to episode 59, in which I interviewed Anna Brightman of Upcircle on their upcycling strategy and the amazing brand that they've built. Or episode 181 in which I interviewed Jeff Chapin, CEO and co founder of Carbonwave, who upcycles seaweed waste into a cosmetic emulsifier, taking the beauty industry by storm. Or episode 182 in which I broke down the different ways that ingredients can actually be upcycled for cosmetics. There is a wealth of information in our old episodes and I do encourage you to go back and listen to them. Thank you for joining Thomas and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy them too. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica at Formula Botanica on Facebook, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, TikTok, Twitter or LinkedIn. We are everywhere and come and give me a follow at Lorraine Dallmeier on Instagram. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com and sign up for our free online formulation course today.