EP26. How to Work with Green Beauty Influencers

Hello and welcome to the Formula Botanica Green Beauty Conversations podcast. If you want to find out more about our award winning online natural and organic cosmetic science courses, then head over to formulabotanica.com and check out our free sample class. This episode I'm chatting to Callie Lyons from the Green Beauty mom, all about becoming an influencer on Instagram and starting her own brand. Enjoy.

So, hello and welcome to the podcast, Kalli.

Thank you, Jemma. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me on your podcast show.

It is absolutely a pleasure. And I know that we've done a previous interview which is on our YouTube channel, which I'll include the link in the podcast so you can go and see Kalli in Face to Face having an interview with us. Kalli is a Formula Botanica student and obviously she's got her own fabulous story to tell, so I will allow her, for the benefit of our listeners, to introduce herself.

Wonderful. Thank you so much. So I always have loved beauty and skincare, but it's taken me about 20 years to get to the place to find out what in that part of the world because there's so many aspects to it that I was good at, what I enjoyed and so about. In 2011, actually I started an Instagram with a bigger vision of later having my own brand. But I really wanted to learn the ins and outs of the business, which is why I rolled in Formula Botanica to learn the backside of formulations. Then I started my Instagram the Green Beauty mom to work with other brands and influencers and actually just started out of a natural love and passion of sharing what I was using and what I found that was good and that I loved. Then it kind of evolved. Now Fast forward to 2018 where I've worked with global brands, doing collaborations, smaller niche brands, indie brands, all different types of things, all different types of founders and brands collaborating, doing reviews for them, doing giveaways, building partnerships and relationships, which I think is actually the foundation of everything we do. Regardless, whatever aspect you're in, it's all about relationships. So now I have my own business called the Green Beauty mom, where I help moms make the transition over to green beauty products. I work in Beverly Hills face to face with customers two days a week, helping them make the transition over to green beauty products. And then I recently this year have launched my own Green Beauty mom line, which I have a baby care section and then three facial care products. So but even though I am a founder of my own brand, and I am, I still see the tremendous value of working with other founders and brands to this day and collaborating and doing reviews because I'm still a student, so I'm still learning, right? And then everything that I learned from them, of course it's not about taking ideas, there's legalities to it, there's contracts, there's all that kind of stuff. But working together actually is like what infuses me. The passion, the creativity. Keep going.

Yeah. Okay, so what inspired you or motivated you in the first place to become a green beauty influencer?

So what really inspired me, to be honest, was the sheer desire to give other mothers and women access to brands which they could potentially never know or hear about unless they had access to healthier options, you know, for their needs, for their beauty needs, for their families, you know, for their bodies and their babies. So out of that sheer desire to really, really help other women, because, you know, there is access to the Internet, but I live in la, so I am constantly just inundated and saturated with information. But I remember when I lived in Wisconsin in a very small town, I didn't have access to all the green beauty brands that I have now. So, you know, I really wanted to share it, you know, have it more accessible for people. And you didn't have to be a mom. You could be just wanting to have a family, for example, and get healthy before you had your pregnanc to really want to clean up your routine. So that was my, that was actually what influenced me and what inspired me.

So that was your key thing. So can you share with us the one biggest takeaway as an influencer that you have learned? Working with indie brands? Because I know that you love working with indie brands.

I do. I love working with indie brands. I think the biggest takeaway that I've had is to really be passionate about whoever it is you're working with. Not just for the financial benefit or the followers you'll get, but to really be moved for a greater, you know, purpose in building relationships with people and working with other like minded founders and companies that share the same great work and the passion, you know, that they're doing with other people. So work with people who you are passionate to work with. However, don't just work with people that are the same as you. It's important to work with people who are different than you so that you can really gain something in return that you wouldn't, you know, usually gain. And I think that's kind of a struggle because sometimes we just go to like either the person we want to actually be Right. Or the brand or the image. We want to be ourselves, or we just stay with what we're comfortable. But it's so important to branch out and, like, work with other different types of brands too, because you gain so much from that. Yeah.

Cool. So I know that you wanted to kind of share some information about kind of brands and things that you'd worked with, you'd had successes with. So before we move on to some of the other questions that I wanted to ask you, I mean, maybe you can talk a little bit about those collaborations, because I know if you follow Cali's page, and obviously we'll include all of her social media links in the podcast Show Notes, but it's such a vibrant and fun place, your Instagram page. So I just wanted you to talk about what you know, the type of brands that you have worked with and the kind of successes and things that you've had.

Okay. I think one of, like, the best stories that I have to share and tell, which I learned a lot from that one collaboration and, like, the whole story kind of fits with everything we're talking about working with brands. How do you work with them? How do you start the relationship? Like, everything. I know a lot of people are familiar now with Indie Beauty Expo.

Yeah. Okay.

So I found out about Indie Beauty Expo through a actual article that you guys did promoting them. One year was their first year ever. And yeah, I was like, you know what? My school's promoting this. I might as well go and just check it out. I'm pregnant. I have nothing to lose. So I went to la, down to. I think it was like, in downtown la. And I showed up just as, like, an attendee, and I was so inspired. But I realized, wow, there's not a lot of, like, moms or baby brands here. Like, everything was targeted more for other things. So I started doing my research and I went the following. I just went this past following year, and I met a woman who had a baby sunscreen line. And you guys are probably familiar with her. Her name is Stephanie McGraw and she has new heights, naturals. And so she was the only skincare, baby whatever there. And so we connected and she gave me some of her samples, and through there, actually, she sent me an email and we started a partnership and we said, we need to collaborate. Stephanie is also a lawyer. So through this process, we decided we needed an actual contract. And we developed the contract together based off of, like, her expertise and my expertise as influencer, as brand founder. And then through that contract, then we were able to really move forward and do an affiliate code and. And find out what the commission would be and find out what the post schedule should be and should we invest money in Instagram posts to actually boost it, to get more followers, to get more views. Then she hired, like, an independent contract marketing person who then gave us feedback because we weren't having success. And we went back and forth and back and forth like, four different times. So in the end, I learned really a lot from that experience because it was about, one, networking, two, building a relationship, three, three, having legal contracts, four, putting the hard work and effort to see a result, five, failing at something and learning a new technique on how to approach really being an influencer and working with a brand and getting a result. So that was a great experience. And I've worked with Pacifica, which is like a world brand, which I had a determination many years ago. I just, I want to work with this brand. And it took about seven years to develop a relationship. And finally they gave me, like, two of everything. Like, they gave me, like, three $400 worth of stuff. I saw Kim at a show, which is the founder, and she's like, call my sister, you know, my. And just have her send you some stuff. We would love to work with you. And it was like. But it took seven years of never giving up.

Yeah.

So you never know.

So the key message there is perseverance.

Absolutely.

I mean, we talked a little bit about the steps that you took to start relationships with brands that you were interested in. But let's talk a little bit more. Yeah. Starting that initial relationship and how to kind of move it forward a bit, because I know that it can be challenging working with influencers for one reason or another. And I'm hoping after this conversation, people will take away the positives, you know, because recently there's been quite a lot in the press about, you know, influencers just wanting to take money and, you know, negativity around working with influencers. So I'm hoping to shed some light on the positive sides of it. So, you know, is it difficult starting relationships? How do you start them? I mean, do they all work out? Do you sometimes start a relationship and then think, oh, I don't know if this is working? I mean, what do you think?

Okay, so you talked about two things. One was the financial part of it, and two, was the actual relationships. Do they work? Do they not? And is this difficult? So first thing I want to talk about is the financial part, actually, because I think that's really important. I think people get stuck on that part of business before they even allow the doors to open to possibility. And personally, I haven't made a lot of money as an influencer because I always knew that my true heart was actually going to be building my brand. So I did it more for. Of course, you know, I mentioned the commission, you know, between one of those partnership I had. But other than that, you know, this is just my feeling. Okay. And I know lots of influencers, influencers make money and that's their job and that's how they pay their rent. And I totally respect that. But this is me because I had a different vision. I did it because, you know, I was able to give free product away, I was able to do reviews. I genuinely really wanted to like learn and work with these people. And so for me, I think the money is important. Of course, your time is money and you have to value that. But when you're getting started, it's okay to work with someone who you just either send product to or has like a very low commission or wants to do it for free. It's okay. So that's the first thing, you know, as an influencer, it's okay to get product. It's okay to use that as part of building yourself up to in your reputation. Second thing is in building your brand, I think it requires, like we said, perseverance. And for me, the best way that I worked with brands is actually direct message on Instagram. So what I do is I go into Instagram and I start researching like a spiderweb, like all the brands I want to work with. I find one brand I love and then I see her followers and then I'm able to connect and then I go to the website, then I read the, you know, the mission statement, then I actually look at their products. You know, so it's a lot of back behind the scenes work. First, before I approach someone because I want to make sure that this is someone that I can actually bring to the public and say, look, they're reputable, this is a great brand, this is a great product, this is a great founder, this is a great mission and you guys need to know about it. After I'm sure I direct message them and sometimes, like I said, it's instantly they respond and sometimes it's two to three months because brand founders have shows, they have product development and most of them are one woman shows or two women shows. So you have to be able to have the patience and the courage and the perseverance and the confidence to know I'm not being rejected. I just need to keep working on it. And so when I direct message a brand, usually I get a response. You know, actually I have a kind of cut and paste now because it's so much easier than typing every single time. But it's like, hey, I'm Kelly Lyons. I'm the green Beauty mom. Here's my website. I would love to collaborate with you. Here's things I've done. This is what I could do for you. Lala, let me know if you're interested. In the beginning, I heard, like, crickets, and then I was like, you know what? I can't give up. I'm gonna do it again. Hey, I sent you an email three months ago. Or an instant message, and then usually I get a response. So Instagram direct message is usually where founders are all the time. So it's not like the olden days where you would have to get someone's phone number and track them down and write a letter.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's working slightly differently now. I mean, you primarily, obviously focus on Instagram, and I think a lot of people will say Instagram's where it's at at the moment for natural beauty and for indie beauty. I mean, would you agree with that?

I really would. And I mean, like, it's moving at such a fast pass. I'm also on Facebook, but business, I do business on Instagram. So where I made 100% of my collaborations, besides being at shows and networking. Networking and shows is probably about, like, I would say 40% and 60 is all Instagram. So you can build a business through Instagram. You can become a beauty influencer through Instagram. You can be a founder of a brand and actually build your branding through Instagram. I mean, how amazing is that?

Yeah, it's got so many different tools and tricks and things that you can do. You've got polls, you've got, you know, you can do tips of the day. You can do, you know, because you've got all the different things that you can do through stories. I mean, I think. I honestly think it's a great tool.

And do you think that there should be in, like, the year 2030, like, a degree in Instagram? Wouldn't that be crazy? Oh, marketing tools for Instagram or how to build your brand through Instagram or, like, be a PhD? I don't know. I know it sounds completely crazy, but literally 20, 30 years from now, I don't know, they'll come up with something else, but I mean, I can barely keep up.

I mean, there's so Many different Instagram courses out there. I can't recommend any specific one because I haven't done any. But I know that there are kind of different, you know, tips and tricks and stuff for using Instagram that people have been very, very, very successful with. But, yeah, I mean, it's just because you get to show the lovely graphics as well and, you know, showcase things really beautifully. So, yeah, so just talking about something else, like, what kind of tips and tools would you share with people to kind of grow your audience as an influencer on a platform like Instagram?

Okay. So really, honestly, the best tool was Instagram's paid post. Doing the paid post and unique hashtags, which everyone knows about hashtags, but you're allowed like 30 hashtags, you know, on Instagram. But if you can really get unique ones that grab the attention of people, you know, of your audience, then you can make it so much more, you know, beneficial for each part, both parties, and coming up with the hashtags together, as opposed to you just coming up them as the founder or the influencer, really being able to work together unitedly because they have an idea of what's working in their side. You have an idea. So when you come together, it's like so much more beneficial. But the paid post is definitely helpful, even if it's like a small $30 budget. Specifically, when you're collaborating, you can really benefit from this even, you know, you can get like 60 new followers with one post. You know, you can do $5 a day, you know, for if you're running a collaboration with a brand. And so Instagram will run, you know, the post out to different demographics based on your analytics. And it really makes a night or day you have to be able. And we hear it all the time. And I hear it all the time. You got to invest a little to get a little, you know, I mean, it just. That's the way it is. So I think that has been one of the biggest tools that I have probably used in my business. Paid Instagram posts, it works. And if you're on Facebook, I don't want to make this all about Instagram. Paid Facebook posts, too. If you did something really awesome, get it out there, you know, not just on your landing page, but get it out to a larger audience. And I think the other tool is networking on social media, introducing yourself to other brands on Instagram, like, hey, I'm the green beauty mom. I loved your page. And I comment, but mostly direct message, because I feel like the direct message is a little Bit more. It's like mail in your box. It's like, it's direct, you know, as opposed to being in someone's comments all the time. But comments also too, if you. I know that there's a certain, like, rhythm now with comments, so there is value to that too, because that's part of the analytics of Instagram as well. So those are the two tools that have helped me.

I mean, I think also you just are fabulous at getting out and about. I mean, do you have. Because I see you, you're always posting about different things that you're doing. I mean, I think obviously face to face networking has also been really successful for you and you seem to just, you know, feel comfortable doing that. I mean, is that something that you're probably going to continue today?

It is, but I think I have to be careful in sharing that that's an actual tool for everyone. Because not everyone is extroverted like I am. And some people will hear this and be like, well, I'm not extroverted. I'm not gonna go out there. I'm like, I can barely, like, introduce myself. My name, like, that's not for me. Like, I need something else. So if you are shy, it's okay because you can just be on your phone and be like, hey, you know, and you can actually send messages from your phones too. Like, you can actually record yourself, like, hey, I'm Kelly. Nice to meet you. As opposed to the face to face. So there is value in also being a little bit shy and like, not so, you know, face to face with everything, too. That's totally fine. I learned by being kind of like, you know, with someone or in the, you know, proximity of someone. That's how I learn. So that's how I get out. But there is value on the other side, too.

Yeah, I suppose you just got to work with your strengths, I guess. Yeah. Like you said, not everyone is going to be an extrovert, but you have to somehow make yourself visible and. And kind of be visible and going to grow your presence. And I think, you know, we've been following you for quite a while now. We've just seen things kind of grow and expand for you. So you seem to be successful at doing both, I guess, kind of face to face stuff and then the direct messaging stuff.

I think I'm trying every avenue. Right. Because I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket. So I want to be able. Even though I'm extroverted, I want to know what it's like also Too, to be on the other flip side of the coin and be like, oh, how would I do this if I wasn't like this? Okay, well, I'm gonna, you know, make a little video, send it to this brand, see how it works. Because she lives in the uk, which, you know, I'm never gonna meet someone in the uk, in LA all the time. So, you know, it's pretty amazing what we can do.

It really is. I mean, interestingly, I found that because obviously a part of my role at Formula Botanica is building relationships and I'm continually plugging away and plugging away at trying to get in contact with key people in the industry and what recently is that, you know, the face to face contact can be massively beneficial, especially if I've been plugging away and plugging away and I'm not getting really any feedback or any engagement. And sometimes I'll go somewhere and I'll be like, hey, I'm Gemma, I'm from Formula Botanica. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, yeah, you've been emailing me and. Or, oh, yeah, I remember you from. And then they meet me face to face. And then, you know, we're able to really build on a relationship because they have actually met me face to face.

I remember you sharing about brands getting out in their local communities on one of the. I don't know if it was a podcast or a YouTube thing, but you said a webinar. You said to us, like, oh, even if you walk down into your neighborhood retail shops and you talk to them and say, hey, I'm Callie, the green beauty mom, I have my own skincare line. I just wanted to introduce myself and leave you some samples or I see that you have a couple baby care products. Like, I remember that. That stuck with me. And I think that that is such a great tool that you're mentioning too, to just get out in your community and meet people, you know, that you want to do business with. I forgot to mention, Gemma, I'm sorry. That another tool for Instagram that I think is really important, whether you're a founder or an influencer, either or is having. Like, this is so simple and silly, but a light box to put your stuff in that you can photograph. So, yes, you know, like, imagery in Instagram is a lot. And so even just investing in like a $30 lightbox on Amazon makes a big difference in how actually people can see your content. So that's just another tip that I forgot to mention. It was like, in the back of.

My head and It's a very good tip because you can find some quite basic tools. And actually, interestingly, I was reading something from indie beauty Expo, the Beauty Independent, and it was from a brand founder who'd said that, you know, she'd been given some advice by a potential invest if she could change some of her imagery and kind of, you know, brighten things up. Like she'd taken an Instagram course, she'd taken something on imagery, and, you know, you don't have to make a massive investment, you know, a couple hundred dollars or, you know, a few hundred pounds, and it can make a real difference as to how people view you and view your page. And like I said, your page is very bright and kind of happy, a kind of vibrant kind of place. And I suppose I'm talking about it as a place because, you know, in this age of digitalness, like, you know, we've met several times over video, but we've never met in person, and yet we have a relationship. And the Green Beauty mom is this space for me, you know, I go and I'll check it out and, you know, be like, what's Cali up today in her space. And I think that we can feel like that about Instagram pages, especially in this digital age where, you know, where we're not always, you know, able to meet each other face to face. It can just feel like you can been in someone's home almost, you know.

That'S brilliant, as you would say. That's absolutely brilliant. It truly is brilliant. In next lifetime, I want to have a British accent, just so you know. But that is so true because I think too, the space that you create is where your customers want to come and feel like they can, you know, be inspired, take something away that will add value to their day, whether it's, you know, it. And I think too, especially right now, a lot of people are very isolated and going through a lot in the world, world in general. Like, there's a lot happening, whether it's weather or politics or family or, you know, financial or whatever is going on. And so, you know, a lot of us escape into Instagram, you know, to just kind of zone out, to be honest. And I do it myself, and I think, you know, you can create value there. There can be value, really created to inspire someone, uplift them, give them encouragement, whatever it is, through a photo, through a quote, through whatever.

So, yeah, just give a sense of community. And I know people are like, oh, you can't do that on social media, but I think it's absolutely true. You know, we've seen with World Mental Health Day and stuff like that, these spaces can make a difference in people's lives.

Agreed.

So, moving on to my final question for you. What would be some of your kind of do's and don'ts? Working with influencers, working with brands? I see you've got maybe a list there.

A list? I've got a list.

You have a list.

So the do's and don'ts, do you have a contract that is mutually understanding on both sides? That's the first one. You know, I don't have it with every collaboration because honestly, I just don't have the time. But it is important if you want to take it seriously. Two, don't ever over promise and under deliver.

So you want to under promise, really and over deliver.

There you go. I had to learn the hard way. I would be like, oh, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And then by the time I was in it, I was like, but I've got five other brands I'm working with that I have to do this and do this and do this. So realistically, I can't, you know, I have to be able to just say, from now on, I can do this. This is what I can offer, you know, of the most value and give my 100%.

So being very clear with what you can and cannot do.

Yeah, absolutely. Do keep your collaborations focused. But also, this sounds contradictory, but also not so focused where you don't allow yourself more breach to, you know, learn from other people. Don't forget to communicate with each other frequently about details like, hey, I did the post today. Oh, I didn't see the post. Oh, it was an Instagram story. Actually wasn't a post. Oh, okay. Or I actually did the paid post. I put $20 down to boost this post. Oh, how many followers have you seen from it? You know, kind of thing. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. For example, if you really want to work with a brand or influencer who's like really big and amazing and don't put your all your energy into that, make sure you do, you know, take the smaller steps, work with smaller brands so that those smaller little focus brands and influencers sometimes give you a lot more work for what you're paying for, number one. But number two, they really genuinely are still just like exploding with passion. So. So don't just put them all in one basket. Reach out. Do work with people who mimic your customer base because I feel like, for example, the Green Beauty Mom. Right. So if I'm working with a potential person who wants to get pregnant, this is a great opportunity for us to collaborate and be like, okay, she wants to get healthy. She wants to change her routine. She's not even pregnant yet. She doesn't even have kids. So not only is she a potential customer, she's still, like, in the realm of influence with other women who are not pregnant. Right. So. But work with people who are your base, who are your customer. And I think one other thing I've learned recently is we say green beauty, conscious beauty. Some people who are not in our industry who don't hear that word all the time are like, oh, is it actually a green product? Is it a green bottle? What is that? So make sure to use language that can apply to every. Okay.

Yeah.

Don't just always say, oh, I'm agreeing. You know, this is my fault. And someone pointed out I was with seven other women who are entrepreneurs who didn't know any, who weren't in the beauty industry. And I go, oh, I'm the green beauty mom. I make green beauty products. Is it a green lotion? I thought I was like, oh, my God. I totally didn't realize I was using my own language. So do use language that applies to everyone.

Okay.

That's it. That's all I have.

That's all you have for now. As you continue to grow, experiment with your brand. So thank you so much for joining us, Kali. I really appreciate you taking the time out to have a chat with us.

Thank you, Jemma. It's been a pleasure.

And I'm really excited to see what you're going to do in the future, because like I said, the Green Beauty mom is a lovely space, and I know you started your line, so we're really excited. You'll probably see a lot more from Kalli in the future.

Yes, Actually, I'm thinking this morning. I was actually thinking about it. I'm going to do just the green baby line, actually. So everything I'm gonna. It's just gonna be a green baby line, like stretch mark cream, and, you know, if you have mastitis. Mastitis oil or whatever, you know. So keep your eyes peeled and thank you again for the opportunity and have a great day.

It's an absolute pleasure. Bye, Kelly.

Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to our interview with Cali. I hope that you enjoyed it and found some inspiration for your own business. If you would like to join in on the global green beauty conversation, then head over to formulabotanica.com you can also find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram Formula Botanica. And please join our free Facebook group, the Skincare Entrepreneur Mastermind. Once again, thank you so much for listening.

Sam.