EP36. How to Pitch your Beauty Products to Buyers

Hello and welcome to the Formula Botanica Green Beauty Conversations podcast. My name is Gemma and I'm the relationship manager at Formula Botanica and also the host of this wonderful podcast. If you want to find out a little bit more about Formula Botanica, who we are and what we do, then head over to formulabotanica.com and check out our free sample class.

This week I am interviewing the lovely.

Gemma from Lumi Consultancy and we're talking all about preparing your pitch deck for retailers and how to secure that important meeting with the beauty buyer. I hope you enjoy.

Hello and welcome to the podcast, Gemma.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

It's a pleasure. So, for the benefit of our listeners, I'm interviewing Gemma who runs a consultancy called Lumi. And I'd love, Gemma for you just to talk a little bit about your background, who you are and what you do at lumi.

Yeah, sure. So I started Lumi Consultancy about a year ago, so January 2018. I can't believe time has gone so quickly. So, yeah, so basically we help startup and kind of SME indie brands focusing in the beauty arena and we help them develop their kind of commercial or their brand strategy or we might help them pitch into new retailers or, you know, we help contact other markets that they might want to expand into. So clients that work with over the last year have ranged from kind of larger clients including like Nip and Fab and Rodial, people like Bleach London. But we've also had some Formula Botanica alumni. So I've also done some work with the Bybie girls, Elsie and Dom, which was fantastic. So that kind of is what I've been doing for the last year and continue to do so. And prior to that I spent over 10 years in retail side, so kind of on the other side of the fence. So the majority of that time was spent at a leading high street beauty brand. So kind of my everyday role was to manage different brands like l', Oreal Unilever, Estee Lauder and pull together kind of like brand strategies, work on their, like, joint business plans and negotiate investment from those brands and also look at how we would take their new products that they were launching and how to, you know, enter the market with them most effectively. So it was a great role and everything. But I don't know, I think you kind of get to a stage in your life where you might prefer a bit more work, life balance and something more fulfilling. So working with indie brands has certainly been. That has been a great journey so far.

Yeah, obviously got a rich and varied background. So that's great for the topics that we are going to discuss today.

So let's hope so.

So, you know, we've got a lot of students who are wanting to start an indie brand and they're obviously in the process of developing a brand or they may already have one. And obviously one of the key concerns is how you bring this brand to market. And I think that there's sometimes some confusing information out there and when they've heard talk from buyers and different retailers, it can often be like, oh, you know, we get contacted, so. And you know, we've got all these emails and I think sometimes it can be a little bit off putting for indie brands to even know where to start. So let's talk about where to start. And I know that you've developed some points for us, so why don't we just kick off and go straight into them?

Yeah, let's give it a go. I think just to echo your point, it's definitely right. You know, most of the smaller brands that I've worked with do come to me because they're quite intimidated and they want to kind of get things right first time. And that's great because actually, you know, often with a lot of brands, a lot of retailers, you do only kind of get one chance in the short term because if you've met a buyer and they kind of don't want to progress for whatever reason, they probably won't want to see you again until that buyer moves on. So it is important to do your preparation. But on the flip side, I'd say don't worry about it, it is quite formulaic. So we'll take you through breaking it down into about four key areas. So you do need to do your homework, you do need to kind of put the preparation in, but actually, once you know what you should be talking about, it is quite formulaic, so don't worry about it. So, yeah, so you might already be in the process of developing a brand and be on the Formula Botanica course, or you might already have one and you're thinking, actually, I'm not having much success. So the first point I'd say is even before you start pitching to any retailers or reaching out to them, I think you really need to put half a day or a day aside and really get clear on who your brand customer is and also what your brand USP is, what your unique selling point is. So the customer really is at the heart of everything that we're going to talk about and you really need to be honest with yourself? You know, I have met with a lot of brands and, you know, they might think their customer is this person or they might want it to be this person, but actually that isn't necessarily reflected in their packaging or their price points or, you know, all of those different markers that kind of indicate who your niche or who your tribe is. So one of the things I like to do with my brands that I work with is look at, if we can look at this from a more kind of like data driven or perspective. So have you already got any social media channels that might be live, so things like Instagram or Facebook or have you got a website and you can look at Google Analytics, look at where your traffic's coming from, or have you got an email list? If so, could you actually do a quiz, a mini questionnaire and find out? You know, 80% of my customers really like the fact that I've got hyaluronic acid in this or, you know, those kind of things. Anything that you've got that makes it a bit more objective and a bit more scientific rather than just like, oh, I think my customer is 25 to 35 and she's got loads of money and she shops in all the shops. So I'm going to target everyone, try and really drill down into a niche and then start from there. So some of the factors you might want to consider, you know, build up a customer avatar. So, you know, a lot of brands say, well, I appeal to loads of different people. That's great. Obviously it's great to try and get into as many stores and appeal to as many people as possible. But equally try and isolate who you think like your primary consumer is, like who you kind of have the strongest connection with and who you'd want to really resonate with the most. And then try and map out a picture of them. So how old are they? What gender are they? You know, where do they live? Are they city dwellers or are they more kind of rural? What magazines or what websites are they subscribed to? What publications do they read? What kind of things are they interested in? Are they bothered about vegan beauty? Are they interested in sustainable packaging? You know, all those kind of things. Also, you know, what is the budget? Be realistic about it. And that varies throughout people's lives. You know, how much disposable income they've got really depends on what life stage they're at. So tailoring all those things into kind of really distilling down who you think your actual core customer is.

Point one, get clear on your brand customer. So obviously there's a fair amount of work you have to point into this. And is this something that you would think it would be good to brainstorm with other people? And is this something you work with your brands that come to you with? They put it down and then you kind of hash it all out?

Absolutely. So I definitely say for all of the things we're going to go through today, but, you know, particularly this, I think you just need to be really, really honest with yourself because, you know, when you go and pitch to a buyer, they will give you quite honest feedback, which sometimes is great, but sometimes not so much. So, you know, I would either reach out to either a mentor or, you know, a business consultant like myself, obviously, or, you know, in your circle. So within the Formula Hispanica Facebook group, for example, are there any people live nearby that you could kind of start having in life, you know, meetups with and actually help brainstorm each other's brands and, you know, just give them permission to be honest, you know, obviously, like, constructively. But say, you know, give me constructive feedback. These are the kind of customers that I want to target. Do you think I'm kind of doing, you know, does my packaging communicate? Am I pricing it properly? You know, should I be flagging some of the different ingredients that I've got in there? Would that appeal more to my target consumer? I definitely think it helps to bounce ideas off other people completely.

So just to say, we are going to have a workbook accompanying this episode, which will be available for you to download. So check that out in the show notes. I just wanted to, before we move on to the next point, just ask you something a little bit about friends and family. So one of the things I get quite a lot, or I hear quite a lot, is that, you know, this is a fabulous product. I've tested it out with all my friends and family.

My mum thinks it's amazing.

And obviously it's great to hear. Like, you say, it's great to hear nice feedback, but I'm just wondering about the. If they're the ideal people you should be brainstorming this with.

That is a great point. And I'd probably say, even though they're your biggest fans, I think really when you're looking for feedback, particularly when you're at the beginning of your journey, you know, you want to have really useful feedback. And often it is better to try and seek out either people in the industry or, you know, if it was fellow coursemates, they're also going through that same kind of learning. So Their feedback will be more valuable maybe from a commercial perspective rather than, oh, you know, my mum likes the smell of it or whatever. Well, that's great, but your mum's 65 and you're trying to target 20 year olds, teen skin. So, you know, it's really trying to think again, think objectively, like who could those trusted advisors be? And I'd also say, you know, try and restrict it to maybe only one or two because also you don't necessarily want to get loads of conflicting feedback if it's to do with like packaging and things like that. Obviously if it's the actual formulation itself is better to try and test it on loads of different people and loads of different skin types as well. Obviously.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. So moving on to point two is thinking or drawing up a list of target retailers. So let's have a chat about that.

Yeah, so often I've seen brands that I've worked with and they, you know, they may have got some really good initial success but a lot of them have not necessarily had like a really intentional strategy in terms of how they're targeting retailers. It's more of a kind of let's throw loads of mud and see what sticks kind of thing. I would personally advise against this. I think it's really important that first of all you kind of stop before you contact anyone and just think about what your objectives are. Because, you know, gaining retail listings do play different functions. So you know, the obvious one is revenue. So everyone wants to get into research, retail distribution because of revenue. You know, that's very obvious but it can play other kind of functions for you. So if you manage to get into a department store, for example, that might give you amazing exposure and great pr and it also then might help you as you enter into other markets. So, you know, say you were in America and you got into somewhere like Nordstrom or Macy's. That would then help you when you wanted to expand into the uk, try and approach people like Selfridges or, you know, whoever it might be. So apart from the whole revenue side of things, there are also other objectives. If you've got a different kind of business, it might be less about a luxury price point and more about driving the volume. You might want to look at retailers that are more kind of value or volume driven and that might help with your production MOQs, which obviously we know is quite a big factor when you're starting up your skincare or body care business. And also things like online kind of E retailers, they might help you get global Exposure through. A lot of them do like global shipping. So even though it might be somewhere based in the UK only or the us, they would ship worldwide, which obviously is great for you, kind of serving all of your customers worldwide, particularly when obviously we know Instagram is such an amazing marketing tool, but that is global, that doesn't have any like geographical boundaries. So it's great if you're getting international recognition, but not if you can't necessarily get the products in your customers hands. So first of all, think about what your objectives are and then from that kind of go through all of the retailers in the region that you want to target, whether that's the whole country or maybe more locally, and just be intentional about who you want to contact. So kind of write a priority order. I think you also want to check that they're a good fit for you. So I think this goes back to the main theme of the conversation about being honest with yourself. So think about who their main customer demographic is and what attributes they have, you know, how old they are, what kind of disposable income they've got, what kind of brands they also buy that are in the repertoire. And how much does this overlap with that customer avatar that you've mapped out in section one? And here is that it should overlap. Yeah, anyone was waiting for the punchline. It should overlap. So yeah, because basically when you're pitching to a retailer, you are trying to draw as many synergies and as many parallels as possible between what their customer is, who they've got kind of milling around their shop or browsing the website and actually what your brand stands for and what it offers, and you're trying to kind of marry the two up together.

Yeah.

Okay, I was just looking.

Another key theme here is to be really honest with yourself. And this keeps cropping up. And do you think this has there's some link with like honesty and expectations and so.

Yeah, I think so. And you know, it's not about being unnecessarily hard on yourself, but equally, I think it's all about being prepared really. Because what you want to do is you almost want to go into those meetings or start approaching those retailers fully prepared with the kind of objections that they might have. And actually it's better to almost have that realistic discussion with yourself and your kind of trusted advisors before you start that process, rather than, you know, managing to schedule a meeting with your dream retailer and getting in there. Then they pull out all of the things which actually you probably already knew yourself. But at least if you go you can either have an action plan of things that you might be able to change. Well, actually, you know, this isn't the final packaging. We're going to be upgrading it or we're going to be changing it so it's more suitable. Or actually, if it is a price point thing, you might, you know, you definitely want to realign any pricing before you start showing it and sharing it with retailers. So, yeah, it isn't kind of not trying to be overly negatively honest with yourself. It's just around kind of being realistic, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

Being prepared.

Because I suppose you have so many expectations that you set, whether you conscious of them or not, when you're first starting a brand. And often I think some people have, you know, they're like, oh, I want to be stocked in Harrods and Harvey Nichols. Just because those are the first retailers that come to mind. They have this.

All my clients say that to me, like, you know, it's kind of a common theme.

Yeah. And I think, you know, sometimes we can start with those people, but then, yeah, as we're mapping out the exercise, our expectations and our realities are like, oh, yeah, okay, so I wanted to be in Harrods and Harvey Nichols, but I'm probably more suited to Boots.

Exactly. And you know what, a lot of people kind of see that maybe as a negative and, you know, not talking about specific stores, but, you know, a lot of department stories stores, obviously they're great in terms of. They're fantastic for your kind of PR and your exposure and everything. But from a commercial perspective, actually a lot of them only have maybe one store, whereas if you're looking at maybe a national retailer like Boots, they've got nearly 2,000 stores. So actually, you know, going back to your objectives, if one of your primary objectives is revenue and scaling the brand quickly, provided you can obviously keep up with production and everything, then I probably wouldn't be advising you to go to some of those really niche department stores because actually that wouldn't necessarily match what your objective is.

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's. Yeah, it's not seeing it as like a failure or a disappointment. It's just that it's not the right strategy for you and you could have more success by pursuing another route.

Yeah, exactly. So one of the things I was going to say as well is so obviously people listening to this will be at different stages of the journey and I guess just talking to the ones that are maybe at the real start of the journey and they're just starting to formulate and they're just starting to think about everything, I'd say, rather than kind of thinking, oh, retail strategy, I'll think about that later, actually. Intentionally build that into your formulation plans because if you know who you want to target as a consumer, therefore, where did they shop? Therefore, you know, what would their minimum and maximum price points be? You can then work that back into how you formulate the product. Whether you kind of upscale how many different actives you put in there, or actually, do you cost engineer it a bit lower. So even though this is kind of towards the end of a journey of a product life cycle, you know, it's really important to try and think of it as early on as you can in the journey and how that will shape your different decisions.

Yeah, I suppose then it can avoid some difficulties you might face with like price. Like you say, oh, actually I can't afford to sell it for that because I'm making it for that. So. Yeah. And I think it's probably better to hash those out at the beginning.

Yeah, completely. Yeah, yeah.

And you can adjust things.

Yeah. So another point that we were going to go over is just looking at. So when you are approaching your target retailers, just be really clear on what you think your USP is to them. So your unique selling point. And it's really important to try and evaluate this in the context of that specific retailer. So I mentioned that there would be quite a lot of prep that goes into it. But, you know, if you're ranking your retailers in priority order, start with the first one, obviously, and put some effort into it. So think about, go and do a competitor kind of analysis. Which brands have they got in there? Do they not have any brands in there that are similar to yours? So do they have a range gap? You know, that's always a great way to go and approach a retailer. So one of the trends that we've been talking about at the end of last year and into the start of this year, obviously, is like the growing rise of CBD in products. So for me, that would be something that buyers will all be aware of, but actually probably most of them won't have any CBD products in their range yet, depending on how quickly they move. So if you do have a CBD product, for example, that is a clear USP that you do have at the moment. And again, I think it's, you know, things move on quite quickly. So if we were sat here on this podcast maybe two or three years ago, I'd say having a natural skincare brand or, you know, A vegan skincare brand that would probably be a strong enough USP on its own. But actually now that has become a lot more frequent, a lot more common, so it isn't necessarily like the strongest USP to go in with. So it's great to have those attributes. Absolutely. But what else can you kind of pull out that would resonate with that retailer? So is it something to do with your founder's story or do you have similar values? You know, you can go on the retailer websites and look at what their kind of corporate stances and what their mission and their values are and see if align and really pull those out again and just highlight the synergies.

I think that's such a good point and I think I just want to echo that because I feel like sometimes we have preconceived ideas of what retailers are like, particularly the big ones. There's some, you know, sort of facts and things that circulate around these retailers that are not actually facts. They're not true. Yeah. Stories. And if you wish. And I think one of the most helpful things you can do, like Gemma was saying, is you need to go into these retailers, you need to have a feel for what they're like inside. You need to. Yes. See what products they're stocking. Like, often I've heard people say, oh, yeah, I know, you know, I don't know how it stock xyz. And I was like, oh, do they still? Because have you been in there recently? Because I'm not sure they're still in there. I'm not sure that they're still running with that trend. And, you know, so it's such a good idea to just go and get a look and feel for the retailers and what they have in there now.

Exactly. And, you know, when you go into stores and we'll kind of draw on this a little bit later. But it's not only the other competitors that you want to look at. It's, you know, what areas or specific zones do they have? So I went into one of the department stores on Oxford street last year, and they had a whole back wall section dedicated to K Beauty. Like Korean Beauty, House of Fraser or Debenhams.

Yeah, one of them. Yeah.

Yeah. So those are the kind of things that, you know, you do want to know what's going on at the moment in those stores. Because when you, you know, say, if that was me pitching last year, even if I. My brand was nothing to do with Korean Beauty, it's a real good icebreaker with the skincare Buyer to say, oh, hey, yeah, your store looks great. O how's the Korean area doing? Which brands are you seeing work? Well, it's kind of just showing that you have been into store, you've got a bit of interest industry and it's an easy way to kind of break the ice as well.

Yeah.

And I think it's just worth going to explore what the retail landscape is like. For instance, obviously now I'm focusing on the UK because this is where I've been at the moment. It's going to be different in your part of the world. But King's Cross has just had a massive regeneration and that whole area behind King's Cross called Colesdrop Yard and Granary Square have got some really interesting and innovative retailers like Wolf and Badger, and there's another one that I can't remember the name of. But they're stocking interesting brands.

Yeah, exactly.

And they're doing it in quite a unique way. Like they look very different from the traditional department stores. They've got quite a unique range they're choosing to stock. Maybe they can move a little faster than traditional retail stores. I'm not sure if that's the case, but they seem to be stocking products that might be more on trend for the trends that are happening, you know, right now. And so it's just really worth getting out there and putting in some miles, get your, you know, step counter on, you know, go and spend a couple of days and go out and just check out what's out there. I mean.

Yeah, and there's so many benefits, you know, apart from obviously we're focusing on how to speak to retailers and in this specific podcast. But, you know, the benefits for yourself, it might help inform, you know, which direction you want to take your brand in or are there any new ingredients you've seen that you want to kind of try out. I think there's never a downside to kind of going into different retailers and looking what's going on, you know, which new brands have hit the scene. You know, it's part of the industry that we're in and it's like an amazing part of it, all of the innovation and everything that, you know, it's a really dynamic industry.

Absolutely right. Okay. Before we get carried away with ourselves, because I could talk about this. It's one of my favourite. It's one of my favorite things and obviously I'm incredibly lucky that it's a part of my job that I'm supposed to go and look at these, seeing what they're doing what they've moved, what they've changed, like you say what zones they've created. I mean, Topshop, it's so awesome because that changes quite a lot in Topshop, going what they're doing.

Yeah. And also even not necessarily just retailers, but also going to different trade shows and things like that. So I know you've just done a podcast about the Indie Beauty Expo, but, you know, things like that are great to see what's coming in from other markets as well and what, you know, what trends are hot and what's on the rise.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because it is so different from different regions. You know, there's different focuses. If you start researching, you know, I've been looking at trends a lot at the beginning of the year and what's coming out of America and other parts of the world is slightly different. Different to, you know, some of the European.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's really good to just do your research. So moving on to point three, which is key one, how to secure the meeting.

Yeah. So I'd say from everyone I've worked with that wants to get into retail, this is probably the most difficult part. And that all centers around one fact really, that buyers are really time poor. So there is that famous meme on Instagram that, you know, Beyonce has the same number of hours in a week as you, so kind of make it happen. But obviously I can say this because I was a buyer for 10 years. The amount of different deadlines that drop on you at the last minute, you know, you're juggling 15 plates at one time. You know, you just have to understand what you're kind of competing against. When you drop an email to a buyer, even with the best intentions, even if you've hooked them in somehow, they might get distracted or they might get an email that drops in their inbox from Estee Lauder. And, you know, if they reply to it, they might earn 50 grand out of it or something like, you know, it sounds like an exaggeration, but it's absolutely a real example. So that's kind of what you're up against. But equally, I don't want to kind of off put you, but it's just important to know what the kind of background is and what the context is that you're working with. So there's kind of two different types of retailers and we're going to focus on the second, but just to kind of tell you about the first. So this would be more talking about like indie boutiques or local spas or salons. So, like that area that you were talking about in London, in King's Cross, that would be an example of that. So that basically means it's usually a solo shop. The key decision maker will either work in the store themselves or you could easily access them via the colleagues in the store. So an approach with them might be to drop off some samples and drop off, like a simple line sheet that has a little bit of brand information and just the commercial details. So you know, what's the wholesale cost, what are the MOQs, how they go about ordering it, obviously, like your contact details, whatever. So that kind of covers off the first aspect. The second, in which we'll kind of dive into a bit deeper, is thinking about larger or like national retailers. So these are the ones which will generally have, you know, more than one store and their buying decisions are made from a centralized buying team at a head office. So it's kind of a different approach. So just linking back to the prior point, some of the brands I've worked with have said, oh, shall I go and drop off samples in a store? And will it make it to head office? Absolutely. No, it won't make it. So don't kind of almost waste your time and financial investment by doing that. So the first thing is you need to find the right contacts. So this is quite difficult. So, you know, there's places that you can look like LinkedIn, which is kind of like a professional version of Facebook. You can ring the reception or the switchboard and try and ask to be put through. Things I find really useful is networking and kind of attending different industry events. So there was one here in the UK last year called Beauty Exchange, which was a day focusing on kind of like beauty entrepreneurship. And actually, at the end of the day, they had, I think it was about three different buyers from different retailers that came. So, you know, obviously you can try and talk to them at the event, or at least even if you don't manage to, because usually the queue is quite long. At least you've kind of got a name and, you know, often they'll give out their email address, so things like that. I'd also say this is where your own network through, like the Formula Botanica Network comes in. Where possible, can you share information with different people that you're talking to or, you know, can you help each other out? And it's really just about trying to find, like, who the current contact is. Because one annoying thing about retailers and about buyers is they do get moved around departments quite a lot. So even if you know you knew someone six or 12 months later, it might actually be a new contact and some of them will kind of forward your email on, but some of them obviously might not have the time to, or the inclination or whatever.

This gets lost in the email.

In the sea of email. Well, just for context, I probably used to get over two to 300 emails a day in my old role. So it kind of quickly teaches you how to prioritize, you know, who should be getting your attention. So it's just important that you kind of are really concise and everything. So I guess onto that. When you are reaching out via email, I'd recommend that you're really clear, very concise and highly targeted in the kind of things that you want to talk about. And I always recommend opening with a power statement, which sounds quite funny, but this is something that will help gain the buyer's interest. So, you know, thinking of it from a buyer's perspective, if I'm going to reply to one of these, like multinational beauty brands earn loads of money from doing that, or I'm going to, you know, spend three to five minutes reading this email, there has to be a reason that I'm going to use that five minutes of my time to do that. So examples of a power statement might be mentioning a recent piece of press you've been linked in. And obviously this again comes back to do you think that press would be aligned with that particular retailer? So, you know, I've just been featured in Vogue's top 10 hottest vegan skincare brand. Amazing. That's great. You know, if you're pitching to anyone, like Cult Beauty or Selfridges or Harrods, Amazing, that's fantastic. And that would gain someone's interest. It could be a statistic on how fast your brand is selling. You know, if you've already got your direct to consumer website going, any statistics from that that you think are impressive, or, you know, if you're expanding into a new territory or a new region, you could already refer to listings that you've got in an alternative territory. So, again, if we're a UK brand and we're going over to America, you know, oh, you know, following our amazing success with Selfridges, we'd like to consider Nordstrom a great partner for us, blah, blah, blah, something like that, I'd always attach a pitch deck and we're going to go into what a pitch deck should involve in section four. And, you know, some brands don't necessarily like to send all the information off up front without having a meeting to take Them through face to face, which I completely understand, but actually a lot of buyers wouldn't necessarily grant you that meeting in the first place unless they've got a little bit of information just to kind of, I guess not necessarily to get the whole picture, but just to check that from a top line perspective, they think that the brands are aligned and you would perform well within the store. And then following that, they would hopefully then say, yeah, come in for a meeting.

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So I suppose it's better for them to, if they get the power station or the stealth statement and they're interested, they then have something that they can download immediately. If you attach a pitch deck and they go, yeah, I'm interested, let's have a look at this. Yeah, okay, this is quite good. I can then, you know, set up a meeting.

Yeah. And actually you just saying the word download just gave me a great idea. Sometimes it's good to use different web services, like Wetransfer for example, because when they download they actually send you a notification to say that they've downloaded. So at least you kind of know then they have taken in that information and then hopefully they'll reply. And actually if they don't, that probably gives you a bit of an indication that they might not reply. Yeah, I mean, it's all a bit.

Of a guessing game really. But I suppose this is so that you can be your most prepared. Yeah, exactly.

It's about being really prepared and I guess giving the buyer some great information up front that convinces them that you are worth a meeting and hopefully that you're, you know, worth being one of their brand partners.

And you know, there are so many buyers now that have their own Instagram accounts. They're like influences in their own rights. And like, you know, I know the Liberty Beauty team have their own Instagram account and there's a lot of people you can find in LinkedIn. So you can find out who the people are and what, where they've worked at before and what they kind of, you know, what they might be looking for. And you can tell quite a lot from someone's LinkedIn profile.

Oh, absolutely. And also the fact that as you just mentioned, that a lot of buyers are on Instagram, you know, that's great for brands. You really get an insight into what kind of things they'll be interested in, you know, what brands they're already interested in. So that's all information that you can use as well.

Yeah. So yeah, just put in some research, it will serve you well. So now I think this is probably what a lot of people want to know. What section four, what should be in my pitch deck?

Yeah, so we haven't intentionally saved the best. It's just kind of in chronological order. But thanks for hanging in there. So, yeah, so I guess everyone's pitch deck will be different in style and you know, visually it should really align back to kind of how you visually present your brand and what the packaging looks like. Obviously the colors and everything. I'd just say as a general rule for pitch decks, I'd keep them again, clear and concise. I'd say maybe a maximum of kind of like 10 to 15 pages, just so you're kind of not going down the whole information overload route. You really want to get in there, make a great impression and give them some memorable stuff. Stats that they will take away after the meeting. So the first kind of section that you want to go through is a bit of a brand overview. So this is to just run through who you are, what do you stand for, what values you have. So, you know, picking out some of those key trends. It might be things around sustainability. So is that reflected in how you source your raw materials or is that reflected in the packaging that you've chosen to use? Obviously highlight who your consumer is and as you're kind of verbally talking through the presentation, you can show the kind of synergies with who their consumer is and then you know, talking about what you're trying to achieve and who you're trying to serve. So, you know, taking a retailer example, for example, the ASOS mission statement is to become the number one fashion destination for 20 somethings globally. So instantly to me that would say if I was developing like an anti aging skincare range, they wouldn't be a great person to go and target. But equally, if I was developing something that was aimed at millennials and Gen Z's, then absolutely this is the kind of statement that I would bring up and say, obviously I know that your mission is to serve these 20 somethings. Well that's brilliant because that's exactly what we're about and this is how we're doing it and bring out examples of satisfying that customer base. The next bit is obviously you want to go into the range overview itself, which is the most exciting part. So obviously you want to kind of include information in the presentation itself. If you've only got a small range of maybe like two or three products, I'd say you can do a page of information per product. Whereas say if you had like 10 or 15 products, I'd actually do more of a range overview because I think going through 15 pages. Oh, and this one's the vitamin C serum, this one's the retinol. Okay. It was a bit boring, actually. So I think this is always a nice part to. As you start talking through the products on the pages at this point, I bring out the samples and I'd, you know, ask them to start trying it. Often they. They'll just do that anyway. So it might be kind of highlighting any specific textures or, you know, what's great about the products, because we know actually out of all of this, the product is really at the heart of what they're interested in and, you know, what it looks like, how it performs, what it smells like and all those sorts of details. So actually that will help kind of. Of do a lot of the work for you. And, you know, I think often products speak for themselves. I'd always try and include a forecast of how you think the brand would perform, like a sales forecast. This is quite difficult, and probably we don't have enough time to talk about how to do it today. What I'd say is, as long as you have got kind of rationale as to why you've come up with that number, I think that's fine. I think you can't necessarily say, oh, you know, we want to do £500,000 this year. Okay, well, the buyer will say, well, how have you come to that number? If you kind of just say, well, that's, you know, that's what we want to do, or that's 1% of the skincare market, whatever. It's probably not the best way to approach it. But instead you want to say, you know, we know you've got 800 stores and we think we'd like to go into the top 100, and we think we'll sell roughly this many per week. And we think we're going to launch from June and from that, you know, rolled up to this number. So at least then there's some rationale behind the numbers. And they might say we don't agree, but actually, you know, they'll tell you what they would think instead. Like, actually, we think you'll sell more than that, but we're going to launch it later from August or whatever. So it just shows that you've put some thinking into it and you've kind of not just making up any old numbers. And then the kind of last bit is how you bring it to life in their stores. And this is all about a tailored plan. So how you'll visualize the range within their target areas. So as we talked about before, you know, have they got a K beauty area? Is that kind of what your brand stands for and would you really fit in within that area? Or if it's an online retailer, how do they merchandise their online store? Do they have different opportunities like web banners and different things like that that you could try and get involved in? Also think about how you'll communicate with their customer and like how you'll engage and educate them. So, you know, are you going to do any kind of education at fixture or different parts of fixturization or point of sale? And depending on what kind of retail environment it is, some of them will want or expect you to also engage beauty consultants that would kind of actively demonstrate and sell the products. And all of this is really a marketing strategy. So how you'll kind of drive awareness and footfall into their store, yours. And obviously linking back to a point we mentioned before, your Instagram account needs to just be on point before you start approaching any retailers because I think that's really like an insight into your brand and kind of what you're capable of. And obviously, you know, it's a. It's a free app that everyone has access to, so there's kind of no reason to not make that the best it could look, basically. So hopefully throughout the meeting they will have given you a bit of an indication as to whether or not they're interested. But, you know, often they might say, you know, there's other brands that we're looking at as well for our upcoming range review, which is when they change brands around and they might introduce new ones, so you might have to kind of follow them up afterwards and kind of see where you stand with them. There might be other things that you need to then delve into if they progress you and if it's a yes. So it'd be things like looking at what terms they're on, kind of like what financial terms, what are the logistical arrangements. So there might be different warehouses or distribution centers. You have to deliver to any kind of investment or kind of funding expectations. So things like promotional funding or fixed investment and then obviously things like beauty consultants or in store fixturisation. So just getting clear on all of their expectations because often it's not as simple as great. They want to take it, they're going to buy loads of stock. Often depending on how the retailer is is and the scale of them, they will have different expectations of how you need to operate.

Okay. I mean, it's quite Interesting, because I've been to a few different events in stores with, you know, skincare brands or makers of this, you know, meet the maker events and those sorts of things. And I think it's probably worth. Yeah. Following up what they do in their stores because. Or what they want. Because I felt that from attending those events and getting to meet the brands, whether it's like a brand founder or brand owner or whether it's like a staff member, you're able to communicate a lot about your brand to customers when you meet them in person. And for me, as a consumer, it was incredibly useful to understand things about the brand or to connect with the brand in a different way. So I think sometimes we feel quite dismissive about those kind of in person or even training a beauty consultant or advisor. But if you do it well, I think it can be incredibly effective.

Absolutely. And also, you know, dealing with wholesale partners and retailers, it can be quite expensive in different ways. So if you're more of a mass market brand, you might not necessarily have to invest into things like beauty consultants, but equally they would probably expect you to invest into a promotional plan. So, you know, it might be on a series of save a thirds that they'd expect you to fund. So it's all of these different things that you kind of just need to scope out when you're deciding who your target retailers are and, you know, what your overall brand strategy is and how they can help satisfy.

So just moving on to a final bit. I know we talked about, you know, knowing the difference between being positively persistent versus being a pest. And I remember I attended this event back in university about working in the media and the BBC and ITV and Film4 and everything were there. And they told these horrible stories, people about people who had literally hounded them. And the one guy said he was received a shoebox from someone with shoes in it and it said, I'm just trying to get my foot in the door. And with a list of his ideas. I know it was clever, he said it was clever, but it was like a list of ideas for this radio show that he wanted and, you know, he said it was just too much because he'd had so many things from this guy, you know, he'd had so many parcels and things and it was just like. So, you know, it's a fine line between being positively persistent versus being a pest. So let's just talk about how that can have an effect on a buyer and how they can perceive that.

Yeah, I completely agree and I think actually this probably is quite A subjective definition as well. I think it is important to be persistent because actually, you know, emails do just go into the black hole, the abyss of emails. And even if someone intends to reply, they just might not get around to it throughout whatever reason. So I think if it's something that has sparked an interest, you re emailing them maybe a month later initially or maybe two weeks later initially, I think that's fine. I'd say whenever you reach out and kind of re establish contact again with the same person, try and show how you've evolved since you last spoke to them. So say if I emailed you and you said maybe you might have replied and said actually at the moment we haven't got any range changes planned or you know, at the moment we've got enough of this kind of brand or whatever, blah blah, blah. I would advise you to reply and just say okay, you know, thanks for the feedback, I'll re establish contact with you in six months and see if anything's changed because then you're kind of setting the expectation of what you're going to do and then when you do reach out again in six months time, you know what's evolved in the brand since then. Have you had any amazing press? Have you secured any amazing retailers? You know, just give them something, a piece of fresh information that might help them change their mind or you know, have you adapted to their feedback? They might have said oh we've already got loads of brands like this already. Okay. You know, since we last spoke six months ago, we've now developed an extension to our range that has CBD or whatever it might be that's relevant to the conversation to just show that you've listened to their feedback and you've kind of adapted to it. I think you should probably go down in like increments of how often you contact someone. So. So, you know, say if you reach out and they don't reply, maybe wait two or three weeks initially to contact them, then maybe wait three months or something because I guess you don't want to be like the weekly annoyance. You know, I had it myself. In my previous role there was a brand that I was, you know, reasonably interested in but I wasn't going to have my range review until like six months later. And I just didn't get around to replying to them. Like as bad as it is to say, it's just the reality of working in a busy office. And then he sent me another one and I was feeling guilty and then another one and actually the guilt then turns into Just anger. And it was kind of like, well actually I'm just not going to deal with you now because you've just proved you're really annoying to work with and you kind of don't understand how it works with big retailers. So I think there is that kind of fine line. But obviously you can only use your own judgment as to what you think.

Yeah. And I guess draw on your knowledge of kind of social etiquette and how you might have felt like, you know, I've had it with myself where I have just forgotten to reply to someone but I am interested and they've sent me a reminder email and I'm like, oh yes, yeah, absolutely. I want it, I really want to engage. I just forgot because, you know, I have an incredible black hole sometimes.

It's human nature. You know, we're all struggling to maintain our boxes on a normal day. So I think, yeah, I think that's fine. The other thing I'd say say is as well, obviously we've talked mainly about sending out email contacts but there's also, it's a great idea to also send in samples as well. So I'd always advise to reach out via email first just because your primary objective really is to try and secure an in person meeting where you would give them the samples. But actually if they don't reply to that, you can always then your follow up might be sending them a beautifully presented box of samples with the information inside, you know, maybe two weeks later. And then your follow up email would read, I hope you receive my samples. Do you like them kind of thing. Just because it's quite a pleasant way of trying to reach out and ultimately the buyer, if they like the products then they will get in touch with you.

Yeah, yeah. I mean getting products into hands. That's what I was saying. Like those meet the Maker events and those other events I've been to, you know, sometimes there are brands I don't know that well and I go and I'm becoming incredibly interested in them because there's a range of sites, samples, you get a drink so you feel that, you know, you can have a cocktail or you know, a non alcoholic cocktail and it's a bit more relaxed and then you know, I get to try all the products. I'm like, oh, this is quite, you know, I didn't realize you made it with. And like what's that? Yeah, I mean he's explaining to me about how they do this whole thing with tangerines and I was like, you can really smell it now. I wouldn't have been able to engage with the product in that way had I not gone and investigated more about what it was like. Because, you know, there's so much you can communicate through video and pictures and a beautifully designed presentation. But there is something to be said for actually sitting there and actually selling it and getting a hold of it.

Yeah, and also that's a great point for, you know, just a bit further down the line, if you do manage to secure some retail partnerships, how can you do as much sampling as you can? So it might be the these in store events actually with beauty consultants that would help you. But equally, you know, even like online retailers, that's a big barrier to purchase if something like fragrance that's hard to kind of get across to your consumer, like why they should be interested because your main benefit they can't actually experience through that retail channel. But equally, they all run like sampling campaigns. Like think about as well when you're looking at production, you know, think about sachets or how you're going to actually do kind of small vials or sample sizes. Because I think sampling is absolutely a great way of recruiting more consumers.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think sample sizes are such a brilliant way to get a feel for a product. And you know, I often ask people, like, I say, you know, we want to do a podcast, we want to do a live stream or whatever, if I could just have one of your products. And I say, you know, all I need is a sample. I just need a small bottle. That's what I need. And sometimes you get massive, you know, bottles. And I'm like, I don't have anywhere to put it. And I've got quite a lot of them. And you know, sometimes I then have to unbox it all. And the best ones I've been able to use little sample sizes. And then quite often I'm inclined to take them with me when I'm out. You know, I'm like, oh, you know, especially winter right now, I'm like, everything's dry, my skin is cracked or whatever. Oh, I've got a sample size of this really cool oil that I can like rub into my cuticles and stuff. So I'm more likely to take it with me.

And actually on that note, one of the key trends from last year and into this year is like miniatures. So, yeah, portable miniatures, people are really going nuts for them.

So, yeah, just absolutely essential. I mean, for someone like me who's out and about quite a fair amount. And I like to use products to maintain my skin's health and being able to carry them around really easily in the space that I have. And sometimes I'm going abroad or I'm going, I don't know, just to see Lorraine and Exeter or whatever. But I need to carry stuff with me and it's always a consideration when I've got like a massive thing with like a massive pump or even something like. I was looking at this, I've got a toner here and obviously no one can see it, but it's a toner with a spray and I love it because I can go and then put it back. But I have had toners before. Would require me to pour it onto a cotton swab or whatever, or a cloth and whatever. And I just can't take that around with me as much.

Yeah. And I guess all this feeds back into kind of the product development process of, you know, it's not just thinking about the product itself, but think about the packaging format and where, you know, what is the lifestyle of your ideal customer and how are they going to be using it? Because those are all really great considerations for.

Absolutely. And I think what we're talking about with miniatures ties in with another key trend, which is one of the Athleisure kind of trends, is that, you know, if there's not. I mean, I've seen a few, few Athleisure brands in the toner I haul that was from pretty athletic and I've got a couple more upstairs actually toners and it's lovely. And I've got like a workout, a post workout gel which is really cool. But you know, they're all in really functional packaging that I could easily take to the gym with me or even, you know, they go beyond just gym requirements, like you just want to spritz your face if you have had several meetings in a row, whatever, you know. Yeah. Think about that very carefully, I think. Yeah, I know.

So tempting to just dive right in on.

I get really excited about trends and functional things. Yeah, absolutely. So anyway, Gemma, it's been amazing having you and what an informative podcast. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Pleasure. Thank you for putting together such a comprehensive itinerary to talk through. That was really good. And thank you for sharing all your expertise.

You are welcome. And if anyone needs to reach out to me, they can find me on Instagram umeconsultancy or drop me a note on Gemma Consultancy.com and I will include.

All of Gemma's social media details as well as her website and the workbook in the show notes that accompany this episode. So please, if you want to get in touch with Gemma, look at the show notes. You'll find all the details that you need there.

Brilliant. Thanks Matt.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening to this podcast and I hope that you found the information that Gemma and I discussed useful and informative. Please do go away and download the workbook that accompanies this episode so that you can work through it and get some clarity on your thoughts and inform your plans for your business as usual. If you have any comments or feedback, please get in touch with us. We're on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram Formula Botanica. You can also head over to our website, formulabotanica.com and check out our free sample class.

You can also join in the Global.

Green Beauty conversation and head over to our free Facebook Skincare Entrepreneur Mastermind. Once again, thanks so much for listening. Have a great day.

Sa.