EP55. Can Green Makeup Go Mainstream? A Panel Discussion

Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make and sell your natural beauty formulations. We tackle topics that will make you think and encourage debate about green beauty with your friends, followers or customers. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeier. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school, Formula Botanica. We have thousands of students in over 160 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. I am so excited for today's podcast because I am going to be joined by two amazing women from the makeup industry. We talk a lot about skincare and hair care at Formula Botanica. But what many people don't know is that we've been undertaking research and development to eventually teach organic makeup formulation for several years now. Green makeup has so much to offer and has come so far in the last decade, but we still have a lot of ground to cover to make the industry truly inclusive and offer the variety that people need as well as getting to the stage that people accept that the colors and palettes offered by green makeup can be a viable alternative to mainstream cosmetics. Today's panel discussion looks at the evolution of green makeup formulations as we ask ourselves the question whether green makeup can compete with the mainstream. I'm joined by Kim Roxy of Lamic Beauty and Sammy Kolk of. Hello Sam. So welcome Kim and Sami. It's great to have you both here. Can you please both introduce yourself for our listeners? And I'm going to start with you Kim.

Hi everyone and thank you Lorraine for having me on. This is such a gift to be on your platform but I'm Kim Roxy K I M R O X I E and I'm the founder of Lamique Beauty. Lamique is an an acronym that stands for love and makeup and kindness and because I believe that beauty is revealed and not applied. And so Lamique is actually a clean color cosmetic brand. So we make, you know, non toxic, more green beauty makeup that actually shows up on the demographic of women who spend 80% more on beauty products but don't see themselves represented in a lot of ways in the beauty industry, especially the green beauty industry. And so being a woman of color, I definitely make sure that the makeup can fit all hues. But that's Lamique. We manufacture in Houston, Texas and I started off in the makeup industry at 19 and that was I'm 38 now, so whatever that means.

So you've been doing this for a long time, and I'm delighted that you bring your wealth of knowledge and experience to the podcast today.

Thank you and welcome. Thank you.

So, Sami, could you please introduce yourself for our listeners?

Hi, I'm Sami Kolk. I am here in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I am actually originally from Toronto, Canada. Toronto, Ontario, I should say. So I am a green beauty makeup artist. I've been, let's see, probably almost going on seven years in the industry. And I didn't start off in green beauty. I, in fact, just kind of was, like, figuring stuff out for myself and, you know, what I felt was good for my skin and my body and kind of dealt with some health issues. That's kind of how it goes a lot of times in the industry. I just really found a passion with being with women and hearing their story and kind of figuring out how we can switch products and make it, you know, a little bit cleaner, a little bit safer for our bodies, especially for moms and friends of mine that were, you know, pregnant were like, oh, I really want to switch out some things. And. But anyways, so I've been doing this for almost seven years now, and like I said, yeah, I just have a passion for women and for. I mean, for women and men, because, you know, men can wear makeup, too.

So.

But just being able to be one on one with someone and kind of teach and I host events. Not right now, but online. I do that as well. And, yeah, I have a passion for all things beauty and people. Yeah.

Awesome. Well, it's fabulous to have you both here, and I'm really looking forward to today's conversation. So I'm going to dive straight in with the main question I want us to try and answer on this podcast, which is, is green makeup a viable alternative to mainstream color cosmetics? Can it really offer the same colors, applications, textures, and staying power? I'm going to ask both of you this question, but I'm going to start with you, Kim, so I'd love to hear your answer.

Yeah, it does have the same power. I love what Sami is doing in regards to helping people to switch out. It could be as easy as a swap. I know there's been, like, this sort of myth that green beauty doesn't show up the same way, and it's sort of been like a myth, because I've been on panels before, and people have asked me, you know, how did you make green beauty that shows up on your complexion? And that was actually the root of what I saw as a problem because I started off at working at a makeup counter. And that's, you know, a part of the reason why I got into actually ownership in beauty is because I was like, I want to make a more natural ingredient, just a better ingredient range that shows up on my complexion. Like, that was my goal. And so I was able to do that. And I know that it's possible, so it's definitely viable. You definitely can do it. And I think that when it's not done, sometimes that could be a choice more than anything, because I look at just the beauty industry, period. If I'm going inside of a store and I only have, like, two choices to choose from when I'm looking for foundation for my dark skin, can I could ask the question, can makeup even be made for dark skin? Right. But that's a choice that those companies make. So then when I look for green beauty, if I'm not seeing it, it could just be a choice. So, yeah, definitely. It can be made. It definitely can show up. Definitely still can be pigmented. I think that, you know, I came from a makeup artistry sort of background, and, you know, it's also about technique, it's about application. So I think that has a lot to do with it as well. But to answer your question, yes, it is a viable alternative.

Fabulous. So what do you think about this, Sami? Is green makeup a viable alternative? And I think you're probably going to say yes, given what you do, but I'd love to hear what you think of, you know, in terms of the colors, the applications, the textures, everything else.

Yeah, I think. Well, man, when I first started, it's come a long way. Like, a really long way. I think a lot of people have this, like, stigma in their head. Whereas, like, green beauty, they think of, like, bamboo packaging and, you know, like, going to Whole Foods and seeing, like, kind of, like the natural neutral colors. It's like, where's the color?

Exactly.

And I'm a very colorful person. I mean, can you tell I'm wearing a shirt that has fruits and vegetables on it?

It's very cute, by the way. It's very cute. Thank you.

But I just. I love color. And so that was something where I was like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, I gotta have color options. I gotta be able to see that companies are putting out, you know, bright shades that show up on darker skin that show up, you know, just for different textures. Different. You know, like, there's the balms. You've got the stains, you've got. You Know, the liquid liners, which, you know, I could name some brands that do great things with liquid liners. But yeah, I definitely think it's totally, you know, answering your question. For sure. I think it's a thing.

For sure. I love how you said it's come a long way because that's exactly what I wanted to explore in the podcast today and look at the evolution of green makeup as well. So I wanted to ask you, Kim, what are the challenges with formulating and using green makeup and how do you overcome those challenges in your brand?

I think that, you know, first of all, when you say that you're going to make, you know, green sort of green beauty products. Yes. Your formulation is taken, your options for formulation is taken down. Right. That's just obvious that whatever those different ingredients you used before or something like that, you may not be able to use those. Maybe those on your. No, no list or anything like that. So, yeah, part is reduced. However, what I found is, with my own chemist and us working is that once you sort of make that pledge that you're going to make vegan products, that you're going to do certain things, you're not going to make it without parabens or not going to use talc. Once you start to make that pledge, then you start to come up with formulations that work and then you have some type of way that you then start to work around that and you start to innovate and things like that. So that's what I find. Yes, there is a reduction. I'm not going to tell you that. You know, obviously, if you could use this amount of different ingredients and now you only have a list of fewer of that, but are you still able to do it? Yes. The challenges that you, you know, run into is one that you just can't, you know, pick ingredients from just anywhere for sure. Maybe you're not able to get your products made in a facility overseas that you're not, you know, there to really monitor because again, you know, you don't want to lose the integrity of what you're making. And then also, you know, challenge wise, you know, I've heard people say, again, kind of back to complexion and shade is, you know, I'm not able to get the pigment that I want or that kind of thing. But again, I think it's once you start to do it just like any type of practice that you start to do regularly, you'll notice that you're actually able to. And a lot of the challenges that you had before when you come into it initially, it might seem hard, but then once you start to get into it, you understand there's so many other options to be able to make things.

I love that. Absolutely. It's hard at the beginning, but then you realize that a whole new world is open there for you. So since green makeup has started to grow in popularity, how have green makeup formulations changed in terms of applications and colors? What are your thoughts on this, Sammy?

Oh, yeah. So I think, well, first off, I've seen a lot more color, so a lot more pigment. You know, I think that was something that was lacking, for sure. You know, I'd be looking for eyeshadows or even lipsticks that really, like, they weren't. When you put them on, they weren't just like, you know, coming off by the end of the day. They have longevity. They last. And I think Kosas is a great brand to, you know, kind of share about. They do a lot of colorful things. I think that. I mean, if I'm not naming brands, I mean, there's just so much that has.

It's grown.

And I would say even with, like. Cause I'm not a formulator, but I do know with. So what I'm looking for with foundation and concealers, even, you know, just upping the coverage or creating more of a shade range, which, you know, I could get into. I know that we were going to touch on a little bit of, you know, inclusivity and green beauty, but I definitely think, like, as a white beauty influencer, that and makeup artist, that I think that, like, we should uphold the most influence to pressure fans to do better and be like, hey, why are you starting with the lighter shade ranges? Like, if you're going to start, let's start with the deeper shade ranges and then kind of go that way, the other way around and not kind of like an afterthought. So, yeah, I mean, that. I don't want to digress onto that, but I could definitely go into more of that, for sure. Hopefully I answered that.

I'm happy for us to jump straight onto that, because I wanted to ask you, and I'm going to come to you on this, Kim, if you think green makeup is inclusive, I mean, most people now have probably heard of Fenty Beauty, I would hope, and it's a large range of different palettes, but would you say that most makeup brands are embracing different skin tones?

You know, it's so funny because when I think about this question, I actually want to pose that question back to y'. All. So it's almost like you know, I have a lived experience, and so I know that it's not inclusive, but when I again pose it back to you, do you think it's inclusive? Do you think it's okay? You know, that's my question. It's because for me, it's not. When I look at it, it's not inclusive. And when you. When you're making green beauty products, it's kind of like only certain people are privileged to those products. Then it starts to become even more of an issue of what society has pretty much done. So. And it's also too a little bit of a hypocrisy for green beauty because it's. You're so big about making products that are better for you and stuff like that, but you just like adding to the fuel of the fire of the problem around of making something that's supposed to be, you know, important, you know, green beauty, but then forgetting about groups of people as if it doesn't matter. So I actually would love to hear Yalls thoughts on that. If. Do you think it's inclusive and do you think it's okay?

I can speak to that for sure. Because just with my clients, some of whom are friends, some of whom are just, you know, clients that are women of color, it's been hard.

Yeah.

I think it's not inclusive at all. It's crazy that, you know, or white passing woman can, you know, go and pick up her shade range and, you know, maybe the problem is, oh, it's just not like my undertone or it's a small thing. Right. And you can kind of easily fix that. Whereas with, you know, my clients, for women of color, it's more like, what brands are there that are really, like, doing the work and like, being inclusive and not just saying, oh, we're a green beauty, inclusive brand and we're diverse. We have a diversity. Okay, but where, like, we want to see it. So I think that that's, you know, with foundations and such, that's definitely been something that I've seen a lot of issues with. And it's like, I'm like, dude, I got an email. I gotta, like, do the work. Because I'm here with these women and I'm seeing it firsthand.

Yeah.

If I'm not going and I'm not saying anything about it and I'm not having these conversations and nothing's gonna change because especially as a makeup artist in the makeup industry or in the beauty industry or as a formulator, I think that's something that needs be to. To be brought up. It needs to be a common, open conversation, especially in the green beauty space. I'm thankful that, you know, as of recently it's been more of a conversation, but it's sad that it had to take it that, you know, all of this going on to get to that point when it should have been something that was discussed from the get go.

Exactly.

I completely agree. And just to add my 2 cents, I think the whole beauty industry hasn't been inclusive, not just in terms of makeup, but also in terms of hair care, for instance, with which is something we teach. And we have 11,000 students at the moment in 164 countries. So, you know, we have different backgrounds, different skin tones, different hair types. People come from all walks of life into our communities. And I think it's the indie brands that are hopefully going to push a lot of this, which will then hopefully force some of the big players to get on board. Because, you know, there's almost what, 8 billion people on the planet. I think we need to cater for.

All of them, right? Yep.

Yeah.

And that's what I find as an indie brand. With Lamique, we are, you know, we started off in Houston with, I had a makeup shop here and for 14 years. And what I found is that I was, you know, helping the women in my community. If people came from out of town, they would hear about us, they would come see us. And then finally in 2018, I closed my store because I was like, okay, nobody's going to do it. Like, you know how a lot of times you just think like, somebody's just going to come along with a venture capital backed company is going to come along and sort of like do this green beauty for women of color. Like, you know, that can fit women of color. You can do it for all women, but at least fit women of color too. And it just hasn't happened. And so then finally I was like, I'm gonna close my store. I'm gonna concentrate on my product line and that's what I'm gonna do. But the issue is I'm gonna, I'm say this and kind of we can keep it moving. But the issue is, is that then when a company like mine comes along, I have my pitch deck. I'm, you know, looking to raise capital for my company. And what happens is a lot of black women companies are over mentored and underfunded. So what happens is, is that, you know, I come out the gate saying that I'm making these products and people like, oh yeah, we'll mentor you Mentor you. Well, we need to be funded so we can compete in the marketplace, so we can let people know what we're doing. And so then women can kind of come in until our into our customer base. So that's something. There's an issue there, but we're just kind of fighting through that because I know for a fact that we need clean beauty, green beauty that speaks to a bigger demographic of women, and Lamek is doing that.

So, yeah, that is awesome. And hopefully we've got some venture capitalists listening to this podcast.

Yes.

Go and find him. So the next question I wanted to ask, I'm going to put this one to you, Sami, is what changes have you seen in the green makeup sector over the last decade? I know you've already talked a little bit about staying power and color, but what do you think the main change has been?

I think I've seen a lot of innovation as far as, you know, I think of course, you can take like, mainstream beauty world, right? That's not green beauty. And you get kind of, I guess, what's the word? Inspired by what you're seeing them put out. And so it's kind of like that competitiveness of like, oh, let me see if I can do this in the green beauty world and create it so that it's safer, cleaner ingredients, but it's, you know, efficacious. And it's actually like doing the same thing, but just safer and better. And there are certain products where I could legitimately say, like, you know, that mascara maybe that I used to wear, like, I have better and it works, you know, So I think there is some really cool innovativeness happening. I would even say just communication, you know, I've seen it getting better, I will say, I think, especially as of recent, unfortunately. But it is a good thing as well that more and more we're communicating, like, okay, this is when you about think to be done, this is what I need. Like, stop being afraid, like, be bold, you know, So I think that's another thing. That's really good.

That's awesome. What do you think, Kim? What have been the main changes that you've seen? Because you've been doing this for almost 20 years, by the sounds of things.

So the main thing I've seen is the education from the consumer. And I agree with everything Sammy said as far as what she sees changing. I see those things as well. And then what I would just add to that is education. The way that the consumer knows. The consumer can know more than you. Like, as far as you Know, because maybe your consumer is in the health industry, and maybe because she's in the health industry now, she heard about that the cosmetic industry could be toxic or, you know, what have you. And so then she started to put things together. And then she's like, wait. And she's like, I know about that. Because before we thought about beauty and we only thought about application as the expertise. Like, if you know how to apply it, that's the expertise. But then we started to figure out, oh, we're supposed to look and see what we're actually putting on our face. And then you started to learn that, oh, I'm going to eat like nine pounds of lipstick or lip gloss over my lifetime. Oh, maybe I should know what I'm eating, right? And so, you know, that sort of education and because of social media, because of, you know, as simple as being able to search anything online. Some things, not all things true, but. But just some things that make you even more curious and to get some leads to some information. But, you know, consumers are way more savvy from 10 years ago, from five years ago, from a year ago, because that's how fast the information is kind of moving. So I'm just finding that consumers are more educated. They're not taking the bs. They're just not, you know, they're looking things up. They're understanding, to Sammy's point, they're using their voice even when they find things out. So that's what I'm just noticing. Before I had women, I mean, I was talking about what was inside of makeup, and women were like, baby, I'm not worried about what's inside of it. I'm worried about how I look. You know? And so then as things started to evolve and they started to get educated, and then they're finally like, wait, wait, wait, so you're saying I'm eating the lips gloss that's on my lips. Okay, what's inside it? Like, you know, now we want to know. And even simple things like that, we're getting that diseases are being caused by hormone disrupting ingredients. Again, back to what Sami was talking about. As far as so many women have had lupus, had breast cancer, had fibroids, have had all these different things. And you talk about hair care, Lorraine, you know, a lot of women of color are very concerned about what the chemical relaxers are doing and how they're attributing to fibroids and different studies that are coming out. So, you know, this is something that women are talking about. It's what we call Beauty shop talk. This, what they're talking about is nail shop talk is what they're talking about amongst each other. And so now they're taking that information and they're making different choices.

Wow, that's powerful.

Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, we've really been talking about an evolution here. You know, you've talked about innovation, safety, education, communication. I love that. And the consumer is becoming more empowered, and it's helping us as an industry get better, which is very exciting. So, on that note, I wanted to talk a little about an evolution that we're seeing here in the EU and which is effectively making green makeup without plastics. So at the moment, the EU is trying to phase out microplastics in cosmetics. And as you can imagine, it's been met with quite a bit of pushback from the mainstream industry, who are fairly adamant that it will be very tricky to phase out plastics, particularly from color cosmetics. So if it's that hard, how are you managing, Kim?

You know, sometimes there's an advantage to being the smaller guy in regards to your flexibility, the way you're able to be nimble, the way you're able to try things. And that's the part, again, I think, where the consumer now has evolved, because I'm noticing that consumers will let you try things. They'll let you try packaging for a certain amount of time. If you find out, you know, that doesn't work, or you find out more information. I mean, we've even had ingredients before and been like, you know, when we reformulated, because we sort of did like a relaunch on our brand this year, and we reformulated, we took some things out. The consumer was fine with us saying, our women were fine with us saying, hey, we used to use that, but we don't use that anymore because we found this out. It's just being transparent and honest. So, like, even when you go through the packaging part of things, like, I would say that our packaging five years from now could be totally different from what it is right now. Our packaging six months from now can be totally different if we figure stuff out, if we're able to, you know, do things in a different way. And so I think that that's the part where I think sometimes bigger brands, they take so long, like, they'll say, you know, we'll change that in 10 years or something. And it's just like, you know, it's gonna take you that long. But what happens is that they need to phase. It's a whole corporate sort of setting inside of things. And just as an indie brand, sometimes you're able to be more nimble. But also to what I think bigger brands need to understand and how we're working around it is that the consumer actually isn't that judgmental that, you know, your packaging changed six months later. You're taking them through the journey. They feel like they're a part of it. So when you change up and you're saying, like, okay, this is the plastic, what we're doing, but if we find something better, we're gonna move on to a different sort of bottle, you know, I think that they're fine with that. Let's say you try even I know, for instance, we tried things. Maybe you mail it and you figure out it doesn't mail well or whatever the case might be, you tell your customer that, you know, and they're way more. Again, they have insight. They feel like they're a part of the company, especially with ours.

Yep.

So that's kind of what I'm finding and how I'm able to work around it. But I have to kind of throw up my flag a little bit and say flag on the plate. And again, the plastic part is important. Thinking of innovative ways to do packaging, being less wasteful, having a whole bunch of extravagant packaging, having more naked package is important. It's certain things we can do that. If you're not able to, if you're an indie brand, if you're not able to all of a sudden, you know, have this big amount of capital to do things, it's other things you can do to make a difference. And even on my side, we can continue to develop on the packaging, but we cannot. Again, I think we need to include more people and make sure we're taking care of that and then continue to move along down the supply chain.

Yeah, I love that I was going to actually say that. One of my favorite things about smaller indie beauty brands is the fact that you have that relationship with them. You feel like included in their company. You can email easily. You get sometimes the founder right. Like, is emailing you. And I think that that's really special. And I love that aspect of it. Now, not to say, like, I don't want you to grow, because I don't want that. But I think that that's a really cool thing. And I love what you were saying, even just about making strides towards, like, the packaging in little ways. Like, it doesn't necessarily. If you have to use plastic, okay. But, like, maybe just do less packaging with your box, you know, instead of putting all this stuff Maybe you something that's compostable or recyclable, you know, easily. Like that. Yeah. That's really great. I like that, Kim.

So do I. I love that. I love the idea of the customer growing with you. And for me, that transparency and that honesty is very much part of what clean beauty is. Yet you're clean in how you operate as well, effectively. And, you know, you're quite right. These big corporates, I always view them like oil tankers. You know, it takes them so long to turn around, and by that point, all the small guys have just sort of of zipped ahead of them, which is the way I like to see it anyway.

Exactly. And I've. One thing we've done is because we had some packaging that we have moved past. And what happens a lot of times is if that happens, usually you just kind of, you know, people just get rid of that stuff. Right. What we did was a lot of times with our packaging, if what I've conveyed to our consumer is I've made like this nostalgic thing with our packaging. So I'd say, you know, you don't get rid of a Lamique case or something. It's like, if it's made from paper, then you can recycle it or what have you. But if it's not the mirror, whatever the case might be, like, it should be a part of the nostalgia of the brand that is almost the same way you keep pictures of people for years. It's almost like that in regards to the product. So we're really big on showing our customers how to reuse things. You know, how our brand is just nostalgic and you should want to sort of keep it around in some kind of way.

I love that because I'm a makeup collector as well, so I feel like. I just love, like, even when something's like, expired and, you know, I could recycle it and, you know, TerraCycle is a great example of how you can recycle beauty products and such. But I certain things, I'm like, I just want to, like, hold on to that because there's memories and, oh, it was my first lipstick or, you know, the packaging is nostalgic, so I love that. Yeah, I love that.

That's so cool.

Okay, so that brings me to my final question, and I've loved listening to you so far, so I'm really excited about this one. What do you think is the future for green makeup? I'm going to ask you both this question. We're going to start with you, Sami.

Oh, Put me on the spot. So I think the future of Green Beauty, well, I guess I would like to see it go in the direction of being truly inclusive to where we're not having to, you know, I mean, I think sitting down, having these conversations, no matter when and what is great, but just where it's like, oh, my gosh, we don't even have to bring that up. Because brands thought of it, they're truly showcasing inclusivity. Not just when it's trendy, but when it's, you know, when everything's going well and they're really making those strides. They're including, you know, more. I'm trying to think of the word, like products. They're creating more products that aren't just, you know, not just. I guess some can be affordable, some can be more luxury. It really just depends. But they're really looking at the broad spectrum of, you know, kind of everyone like, okay, what can we offer that caters to a wide variety of people from different backgrounds from different, you know, skin colors? It's just. They're thinking of all of that, and that's what I would love, and I really hope that that's what we're moving toward. So. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So what do you think, Kim? What is the future for green makeup or green beauty?

Yeah, I like Sammy's perspective around having variety and seeing that as the future. Because right now, when you think of the mindset, you think limited. So when you think of green beauty, sometimes you're not thinking abundance, the consumer, Sometimes they're thinking just limited. Like, oh, I can go here in this little section of the store, this little section of their website, or, you know, it's only a few brands. And I see the future of green beauty actually becoming way more abundant and there being an abundance and array of things. And I'm gonna say, for our own brand, we're growing our product line. So there'll be abundance that will meet. I can promise you that. Yeah, so we're growing and we're working on that, and that's what our future looks like. And then also, you know, I'm not, you know, Sammy already spoke and said that, you know, it being more inclusive is the future because, you know, just like your company, Lorraine, you know, it's about, this is a global perspective around things. And so again, back to abundance, I just see the future of green beauty as abundant. And back when abundance, you have people of all different hues and undertones and just experiences that rituals and culture that make up the way that we do Beauty, because culture is a big part of your beauty experience. And so when I think about that, that's how I think of the future of green beauty, where it's a whole cultural perspective that comes in to make it up. And it's not an elitism sort of industry, because right now, green beauty almost could be seen as for the privileged ones. And so I think that for the future, it is more of a cultural sort of everybody. Because when I think of different cultures, I think of so many different neat, green, natural ways that they do beauty. From Africa to India to the Philippines to South, you know, Latin America to, you know, just. I've traveled a lot of Colombia, has some really nice rituals, like. So when you think about these different things, we have so many different things to add. So when I think of the future, the only word that pops up in my head is abundance.

Can I add one more thing, too? I think if any makeup artist listening or anyone in the beauty industry that does work with makeup, something that I like to do even is with my clients who are women of color or do have, maybe they express something like, oh, I have a tough time, or, oh, it's just so expensive, or this or that. I like to kind of continue that conversation as I'm either doing their makeup or maybe afterward we talk and just keeping that, like, taking notes, notes mentally, or actually having notes and just being like, okay, you know, I'm gonna email with this brand and we're gonna discuss this, or I'm gonna, you know, oh, she didn't feel like this shade range was that inclusive or she couldn't find her shades. Let's talk about it. And so I think, like, keeping that in mind, too, is really good.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah, it is. I love that. And all those countries you just named Kim. I'm fairly confident we'll have listeners in all of them. So if you're getting fired up by this conversation, come and tell us online about your business beauty rituals.

Yes.

So that brings me to the end of this podcast, which has been truly awesome and such a privilege to interview you both. So if people want to find out more about you, where can they find you? And I'm going to start with you, Sammy.

I'm at on Instagram. Hello, Sam. So it's H U L L O S A M. And I'm also. My Twitter. My blog is hello, Sam. So very easy. It's always the same. And yeah, yeah, that's where I'm at.

Cool. We'll have all of those links with the podcast notes as well. And how about you, Kim? If people want to come and buy from Lamique or find out more about you, where can they find you?

Yeah, I'm over here, like adding Sammy on Instagram because I want to follow. So you can follow Lamique and you can. Okay, first of all, you go to our website, take our Brow Quiz. We have a brow kit for your brows that I love and I can't live without that I'm about to put on. And it is 88% made from natural and certified organic ingredients. But the website is lamique beauty.com, so it's L A M I K beauty.com and then on Instagram, we're at Lamika Beauty. We're actually on all platforms, it's at Lamique Beauty. Rather, It's Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. You know, all those places is Lamique Beauty. But our Instagram experience is pretty fun. So if you join us on Instagram right now, coming up, you'll be able to help us name our new lip glosses. Yes. So we kind of crowd sourcing the names of the new cosmetics that we're coming out with, the new lip glosses. So make sure you're following us so you can help us name them. And make sure you also go to our website, lamique beauty.com and you can actually virtually try on the brow kit. That's another thing. Oh, we have ar. Yeah, we have artificial augmented reality where you can actually try on the brow kit. So make sure you do that.

Oh, yes.

That's so cool.

Awesome.

Love that.

So go and check out Kim and Lamique Beauty and Sami and hello, Sam. And as I said, all of those links will be below the podcast. Thank you so much, both of you. It's been an absolute pleasure and privilege.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

So I hope this podcast has fired you up to come and tell us on our social channels what you think. What are your experiences of green makeup? Can it offer what you need? Does it offer the color palettes you need? What can we do to make the industry more inclusive? And which brands do you love the most? We haven't talked about makeup before on our podcast, so I really hope this has got you inspired to start thinking about how you might even be able to formulate your own one day. As I mentioned at the start of this podcast, we're still in research and development mode on organic makeup formulation, which we hope to teach in the future. We haven't got a date set yet, though, but the process of developing organic people lipsticks blushes, foundations and more has been fascinating for us so far and we've really enjoyed spending the last few years figuring out what works and what doesn't. So watch this space. Formula Botanica will announce more when we have more to share. In the meantime, please do join the discussion and leave us a comment on our social channels to tell us what you think of green makeup. The Formula Botanica team and I love hearing from you, so come and tell us your views. Thank you for joining Kim, Sami and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations where we looked at the evolution of green makeup. Really hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you subscribe to our podcast on itunes or Spotify and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica Formula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Pinterest or LinkedIn. We are everywhere. Visit our website at Formula Botanical and sign up for our free online formulation course today.

Sam.