EP73. Should beauty retailers boycott unsustainable brands?

Everyone in the beauty industry is currently talking about sustainability. The brands, the founders, the customers. But where are the retailers in all of this? Well, it turns out that some forward thinking retailers are seeing the changes taking hold of the mainstream and indie beauty sectors and that some of them are setting sustainability criteria for the brands that they choose to stock. Today's podcast is an episode with one such retailer who doesn't compromise on her sustainability standards and ensures that the beauty brands stock by her company think about their environmental and social footprint from the moment they come to her. Regardless of whether you make, sell or use green beauty products, you're going to want to listen to my interview with Jasmine Alvarez. Pretty well Beauty. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make and sell your natural beauty formulations. We tackle topics that will make you think and encourage debate about green beauty with your friends, followers or customers. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeyer. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school, Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 175 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website at form formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. So today's episode is an interview with Jasmin Alvarez, founder of Pretty well Beauty and a 14 year veteran of the fashion and beauty industry who is a leading and trusted clean beauty advocate. Having experienced herself that using products with fewer ingredients creates a happier, holistic relationship with your skin that radiates from the inside out. Jasmine's goal for Pretty well Beauty is to define and set the highest standards of clean beauty and wellness. By partnering with brands that adhere to only the strictest standards of clean and sustainability practices, we're going to delve into what it takes to be a beauty retailer with high sustainability standards. Welcome to the podcast, Jasmine.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

How are you doing today?

Doing well. A bit tired, you know, but I'm doing good. Yes, thank you.

Yes. You have quite a thriving business by the sounds of things and I'm really looking forward to talking about that with you today. So I think first of all, can you tell us little bit about Pretty well Beauty and about what you do and then I really want to get stuck into the sustainability story with you.

Sure. So yeah, Pretty well Beauty. It's a multi brand conscious beauty and wellness marketplace that I launched a little over two years ago based here in New York City. But we are global. We're getting there. We shipped to Canada and to the UK, as well as all throughout the US and when we launched, we launched with 12 brands. Now we have a little over 30, ranging in skin care, makeup, hair care, bath and body products, wellness products, the whole lot of it all. So, yeah, I'm really excited about, you know, what I'm building and just sort of where it's going. And I'm really excited about a lot of the brands that I've just started taking on. Of course, of, you know, the brands that I carry, including one of your graduates, Flower and Spice. So, yeah, very excited.

Awesome. So, obviously, you know, clean beauty is very important to you, but so is sustainability. So can you tell me a little bit about, first of all, why sustainability is one of your core pillars and what you're trying to achieve with that?

Well, I think it really just kind of goes back to the whole concept and understanding that without sustainability practices in place, we may not have a place for our future children and grandchildren to be able to live and be able to thrive. So, really thinking about how we can sort of improve our lives in a more circular way and eliminate overharvesting and waste is something that I'm very, very passionate about. And so, of course, because this is something that's very passionate about, you know, in my personal life, it's going to bleed over into my business because my business was born out of my own need and necessity to be able to find beauty products that, you know, spoke to my ideals and standards for clean and sustainability. So, yeah, it's very important. It's something that we speak quite a bit about when I'm vetting the brands at pretty well Beauty, and then even something that's sort of a continuous conversation, how not only myself, but also the brands themselves can continue to improve and push that the envelope and that conversation forward so that they can continue with their mission of sustainability. My hope is that sustainability will become something that brands infuse into their companies and their brands from the very beginning, instead of kind of treating it almost like a response or an afterthought after they've already launched, it's so much harder to do it that way. I think that if brands really start thinking about the ways that they can be as sustainable as possible from the beginning, that'll help set them up for future success. I know it's something that is always going to be a continuation of a work in progress. Nobody is perfect, but as long as they're making strides towards Becoming as sustainable as they can be and in communicating their intentions to their end user. I think that's really, really important because the more that people are talking about it and are sharing, you know, the importance of having a sustainable approach to all areas of your life, including beauty, which seems so trivial, but, you know, beauty contributes to so much waste in the world. And so it's something we have to really take into very great consideration and considering the entire life cycle of the products that we're using on a daily basis.

So how many brands are you stocking at the moment then?

I believe we have 34 brands.

That is a phenomenal number. So let's go back to something you said just a minute ago. You were talking about vetting. So how do you vet the brands that you stock then in terms of their sustainability? Because, I mean, sustainability is such a big topic. It's so multifaceted. It can seem so overwhelming. I think a lot of people are trying to redefine it in different ways as well, which isn't necessarily a good thing either. How do you start with that when you first have a brand approach you?

Well, it always, for me, it starts with the ingredients. So not only, of course, I want to make sure that the. That what they're formulating are with ingredients that have not even any suspicion of being harmful to human health as well as to the earth. And then we talk a lot about the sourcing of ingredients, where they're sourcing them from, how they're sourcing them. One of the quote, unquote bad things about when we are sourcing for ingredients that are natural, there can be an issue with over harvesting. And so having these conversations with the brands and really getting to understand how they're actually doing this and being able to leave something behind without taking too much, but still having what they need to be able to formulate and to be able to meet the demand of their customers. This is really how it starts. It starts with the ingredients first and foremost. And then, of course, you move into, like, the packaging. We move into, like, their supply chain. We move into, like, you know, upcycle. Like, we upcycle at, you know, pretty well, beauty. So there's just a lot of conversation that always. It just starts with the ingredients. And the vetting process varies too. Sometimes it could be a process where it takes, you know, about six to eight weeks, you know, because I need to try the products as well. And then there's additional conversations that take place too. The longest it's taken for me to vet a brand has been a year, not because they weren't amazing, like they were doing really, really well. It was just more of a timing issue.

And how do brands respond when you come to them and you start asking questions about sustainability? Because I'm guessing a lot of brands may not have yet really come up against that so much with certain retailers. So how do they respond?

Yeah, very positively. I think that they are very much interested in finding ways that they can continue to improve upon their products. I think that that's one of the wonderful things about working specifically in the clean and natural space, is that there's always so much room for improvement. And I feel like founders of, you know, indie brands are naturally curious people. So if there's a way for them to continue to add value to what they're producing, they seem to be very receptive to it. I have yet to have anyone say, no, I don't care about sustainability. I think that that's something that comes very innate. If someone is intentionally creating a product using products from mother Earth or, you know, ingredients from mother Earth, of course they care about our planet. So I think it just kind of is, it's a welcomed conversation.

So one thing that I've had a number of indie brands say to me over the last couple of years is that becoming a sustainable brand, because as you rightly said at the beginning, you know, no one is perfect. It's a journey, it's not a destination. But getting to the stage that they really embrace sustainability, some indie brands are saying that's too hard for a small company. They're saying, you know, we don't have the resources as the big guys. We can't necessarily get the sustainable packaging and the low minimum order quantities. I mean, you're working with dozens of brands there now. Do you think that that argument has any grounding or do you think that basically some of these indie brands need to really start to rethink their values?

I can see both sides of the argument. To create something that is fully sustainable is a bigger cost. But I think that there's the other side to it. It's like if more brands, if every brand ideally was building sustainability into their business models, the demand from the manufacturers to provide more eco friendly solutions will drive those costs down. I think that if you're not able to afford some of these solutions from day one, I think it's important to let at least your customers know, like, hey, this is where we're at right now, but this is where we hope to go. This is our plan, this is our timeline. This is if you can communicate if it's that your intention is there. I think that goes a long way. That kind of speaks to the whole transparency piece of it as well. Because like we said, like, nobody is perfect and nobody expects a new brand to be perfect right out the gate. There's always going to be something that's going to be, you know, a little bit of a, you know, area where they can improve upon. So I think that if they're in a situation where they just don't have the resources financially to be able to invest in a fully sustainable supply chain, at least communicate to your audience, your community that you're building, what your plans are for the future and how you want and why you want to do this, why this is important. I think that would go a really long way. And then as you start making those small changes, communicate like, hey, this is what we're doing right now. Like, even if it's like the smallest thing, you know, even if you've just like replaced one element from plastic to something else, like it's a step in the right direction. So I'd rather someone take baby steps than no steps, rather, you know, and just kind of. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Could not agree more with you. That is a great answer. Thank you. So then, once you have the brands on board and you're working with them, how do you continue to work with them to ensure that they're still living up to those sustainability standards that you, that you vet them for in the beginning?

Well, I can pretty much tell when I receive the products. A lot of them also, like, for me, if it's a situation where I need to order some inventory and they don't have everything in stock, I will ask for them to wait until everything is available so that we don't have to ship multiple packages, you know, because that obviously, you know, emissions and also the packaging, all of that sort of contributes to how our Earth comes to those, those offsets. So, yeah, I think that, you know what, like a really good example would be, like Earth Wise Beauty, for example. They are always looking to improve upon their, their practices and they are very much, very great communicators with all of their retail partners. So I'll receive an email from them every few months just saying, hey, like, we found an even better, you know, solution. Like, here's the information you should relay to your customers about this, you know, this new product or this product that had now is made this way. So I think that they are really interested in continuing to improve and I haven't had any issues with anyone saying, you know, we're not going to do XYZ, like another brand, Earth2Face, like, they're one of the OGs and the clean beauty space. Like, their first product was their face wash. And at first their face wash, you know, it came in the glass bottle, but then it had, like, the plastic pump. But now they've gotten rid of the plastic pump and now it's just like an aluminum screet top. So making minor changes like that, and that doesn't cost that much either, so. And this is a company that's been around for over a decade and they're still looking for ways to improve. So they, you know, I think that if anybody is struggling to make and they're looking at what other people are doing, it's like, this is a brand that's been around for a while and they're still not 100% perfect, but they're still making those steps towards becoming as sustainable as possible.

That's amazing. And I loved hearing those stories. That's fantastic. Also, I suppose they become part of a family when they're stocked by retailers such as Pretty well Beauty.

Yeah, I mean, some of them I've known, I've had personal relationships with before I even started my company. Like one of the brands odl. Like, she. I was a photo producer in my former life and she is a makeup artist. And she developed her rose serum specifically so that she can use on models on set. And she wanted it to be something that could work for all skin types. And it was really something that she created just for herself to be able to use on models. She had no intention of creating a business, but models started asking for it and then they started wanting to buy it. And it took her five years to, like, perfect her formula. And it's been, you know, one of the bestsellers at Pretty well Beauty. Like the first, you know, the first year that I was in business. So, like, having these really close relationships, like, really intimately knowing the backstory of some of these brands is really, really cool. And then, of course, brands that I've taken on since I've launched, I've become, you know, very friendly with. It's really cool when. When you're working with indie brands because you do get to form those relationships directly with the founders. You're not necessarily working with the sales rep like you would be if you were working with, like, one of those larger brands that you can find at, you know, larger retailers. So. And some of my friends are at some of those larger retailers. But I still get to communicate and even like text directly with the founders. Like, you know Erica from Axiology, I could like text her like hey, like what's up? Like when are you going to be in New York? And she'll like text me when she's going to be in town. So we still haven't gotten a chance to meet because of COVID but it's nice and I get to have that face time and that, that personal time with.

Yeah, wonderful. Really lovely to hear also how the business has unfolded and obviously how you've taken some of these brands with you for the journey. So let's talk about the people who buy from Pretty well Views, your customers. So how do you communicate about sustainability with them? Because I know obviously you have the vetting process. You talk to your brands the whole time. How about the customers?

Yeah, so I think with the customers it's all about just education and letting them know our values. So mostly we communicate with them through our email campaigns as well as through social media, through Instagram. And it's not anything that is so overwhelming and intimidating. We really want to make sure that it's bite sized pieces of information that they can, that they can digest. Just really kind of explaining to them like what sustainability is and why they should care and like where we stand on sustainability. Just showing them like the value behind the Pretty well Beauty ethos and how we, why these brands exist in this space. It's not a situation where we've like thrown a bunch of stuff at the wall and we're see what sticks to see what people are going to gravitate towards. You know, everything is very, very intentional. And so really making sure that the customers understand that like if you're buying something from Pretty well Beauty, it's there because they've gone through an extensive vetting process because the products really do deliver on the promises that they, that they, that they say that they're going to deliver on because they have been created with the highest level of integrity and ethics and also sustainability every single point of the way. From, you know, the formulation to the packaging to the shipping, to you know, their constant, you know, quest for developing something that's going to just add value to the person who's using their products.

And you're using Clubhouse as well, aren't you? Because obviously that's how we initially connected. How are you using that in terms of. Because I know you're very active on that. How are you using that in terms of communicating potentially with customers but also with brands?

Yeah, Clubhouse is interesting. I have the Clean Beauty Club. But inside the Clean Beauty Club, I have two shows. I have one that's called we heard you want to launch a beauty brand. And this is something that I do with other brand, beauty brand founders and other people who work with beauty brands to really help, teach and guide people who are looking to start a brand, even if they've already started a brand, but to be able to add value to them, to help them along their journey because it can be lonely and there's a lot of stuff that you just don't know. I can certainly relate to. And I don't know everything. I'm still learning myself. And so I bring in other people and we give tips on everything from, you know, go to market, strategy, ideation, validation, ingredient sourcing, formulations, packaging solutions, sustainability hacks. We talk about marketing, PR and just all like it's a different topic pretty much every single week. We kind of think of it as like a weekly masterclass or people can just be focused on one topic at a time and then people can have their questions answered. And then I just launched a show called Meet the Maker where I basically talk one on one with a founder from Pretty well Beauty of a Brand at Pretty well Beauty to really let people know a little bit more of like, what's going on behind the scenes. Like let the audience know more intimate details about their story and like their products and they can give them product recommendations. And it's just a way for people to get to know the founders behind some of the brands that they love or maybe brand that they haven't tried before and they. And they're interested in learning more. So. And then of course I go into other people's rooms where they ask me to co moderate or I'm just in there just as a listener. My very first room that I ever did on Clubhouse, I'd only been on there for a week and I was still just kind of figuring it out. And it was just a robot that I opened is like, you know about clean beauty. I just wanted to talk about clean beauty in general. And people came in there and a girl asked me for a recommendation of a product for alopecia. And I just mentioned a product that I had been using for my hair. I don't have alopecia, but the founder did. And she created this product to address her alopecia problem. She had like a huge bald spot in the back of her head and she was taking all these like steroid medications and everything. That thing was working. So she spent five years, five or six years like, researching and developing this product, and it made my hair grow 8 inches in six months.

What? That's insane.

Like, you can't tell, but, like, my hair goes all the way down to, like. Yeah, because it's very curly, so it shrinks. But, yeah, it goes, like. Yeah, it's really long, so. And it's because of this product. Like, nothing else in my routine had changed until I started. So I basically, I was just sharing a bit about that product, and four people purchased it. Like, I wasn't trying to sell anything. I was just there just wanting to talk about clean beauty. And it turned into a place where people were, like, interested in, like, I made, like, a few sales from that. And I find that the things that I use personally tend to do the best because they're the things that I talk about the most. Because people always ask me, like, what do you put in your hair? What are you using? And so I'll tell them, like, this is what I do. Like, this is how I use it. And then they'll go and they'll get it, and then they love it, and then they keep buying it. So, yeah, like an accidental influencer.

People buy from people. And obviously you found a fantastic way of putting yourself out there on a new medium, which is obviously blowing up. And you got in there early, so, you know, fair play. That's very impressive.

I've been on there since October. The app has been around since, I think, April of last year. So it's been about a year the app has existed. Yeah. I guess I am one of the earlier adopted. Not the earliest. Yeah, but it's fun. And sometimes I like going into rooms that have nothing to do with beauty whatsoever, just because sometimes you need a little bit of a break.

Yeah, I know the feeling. I mean, we've just started the Formula Botanica Club on there now as well, and it's only been going for a couple of weeks, but we've got, like a thousand people in there already. You know, it's taking off because, of course, you know, with the 12, 13,000 students we have, it's fantastic to have another platform. But I really admire what you've built on there. That's very impressive and lovely to hear, obviously, that you're also making sales that way, which is obviously what a lot of people will be thinking about.

Yeah, that was not my intention at all. Like, it just happened very organically. Yeah. It's been in, like, there was a room I was inside of. It was like a manifestation affirmation room, and it was a Room where I shared my. What I was trying to manifest and I was very emotional, I was crying. And the woman who went after me, who like, was next in line, she was like, jasmine, I just went onto your website, I just bought a bunch of stuff. I was like, I didn't even talk about my business at all. But I, you know, she felt, you know, called to support me. So that was very like. That's why I love the clubhouse community because it really does foster authentic connections with people because it really is just, it's all about the voice and people can just hear you and they can tell if you're someone who was authentic. And since they sincere and that's who I am, like, I'm the kind of person who really wears their heart on their sleeves. Like, I am not afraid to cry in front of a room of 300 strangers. Like, I've done it more than times that I care to admit, but like, you know, very.

That's amazing. Well, thank you for sharing. I know we're veering slightly off the sustainability topic, but I think it's worth tackling because, you know, you're obviously doing something really interesting on a new medium. But in some way it is also driving the sustainability agenda because obviously there are a lot of brands on there. I'm seeing a lot of indie beauty brands on there at the moment and it's making them think as well. So I wanted to ask you, you're a beauty retailer, but there are lots of beauty retailers out there who aren't thinking about sustainability yet. But what do you think is the future for beauty retailers when it comes to sustainability? Are you seeing others go down a similar route or are you trailblazing?

That's a very good question. I know that there's probably some internal conversations happening at other retailers. I know, I believe Credo had something where they were planting trees or something like that, which is great, but it doesn't really address, you know, waste issues. I think they're also getting rid of Sam, their sampling program, because the samples, those little things are just, they're very hard to. They don't recycle, they're little. So I think they're doing that, which I think is really great. You know, pretty well. Beauty is not at that level yet where I can get rid of sampling, unfortunately, because I'm still new and it's a low cost marketing strategy for me to be able to upsell and to be the bring back, return and repeat customers. I think once I get to a place where we're a bit More established. There's going to be a lot more than that we can do. But I think really just focusing on making sure that I'm taking on brands that are just already doing the work and phasing out the ones that aren't. One of my goals is to be is to have like, you know, fewer than 10% of package of plastic materials and the brands that I carry, and there was a brand that I cared, that I really like, but all of their packaging was plastic. I dropped them a while ago, not because the product wasn't great, but, you know, they had no interest in packaging and glass, so. Or anything that was a little bit more sustainable than the plastic. So making hard decisions like that, even if it's a brand that does well, that's very popular, that people love, if they are not making those efforts towards sustainability, it's not going to be a good fit for pretty rare beauty. I think that's one of the things that can separate or kind of like makes me a little bit different than the other guys. I'm not going to compromise when it comes to sustainability. Even if it's a popular brand that is like an easy sell.

I love that. Yeah, I love that you push that message to the forefront. Because as you say, it must be a very difficult conversation to have with someone to say, look, you're not interested in changing your packaging. This doesn't fit with my ethos. We're going to have to part ways.

For me, it's like, it's very. It is what it is. There's no emotion involved with it. It's okay. This is what we stand for. You know, your product is great, but your packaging is not really cutting it in terms of sustainability. I would invite you or encourage you to reconsider. And if they don't, well, then it's the end of the conversation. If they decide to change, then we can welcome them back. But for now, that's just where it is.

Yeah, I get it. Impressive, though, that you put that first. So I have one final question for you is what advice would you give to any new beauty brand that's thinking about embracing sustainability but doesn't quite know where to start?

Oh, that's a really good question. I would say do as much research as possible. There are incredible sustainability consultants out there that can really help you in those early stages to really start having those conversations about how you can be sustainable out the gate, and they can give you solutions on small ways that you can start, I think really getting to know where your ingredients are coming From I know a lot of founders will kind of go the route of just buying in bulk from someplace online to create their products. And while that might be okay for some, it's not really enough in a lot of ways because you don't know where these ingredients are being grown. You've never been there before. You don't know the conditions are being grown in. I think really getting to know your farmers, your producers is probably like the first step. I would say, like, really get to know them, understand their practices, understand where they stand. And then when you start talking to like your contract manufacturers that, you know the labs and stuff, go there, look and see how they're operating their businesses. Just this doesn't cost you anything. It's just gathering the information and just asking the questions so that you can make those decisions about who you're going to partner with. When you do start to formulate your products, you'll have all of those partners kind of in place and you can just, you know, press go when you're ready. I think that would be probably my first step. If I were to give advice to someone who's starting a brand or if I was starting a brand, like, that's what I would do too.

Yeah, that's brilliant advice. Thank you so much, Jasmine, and thank you for your time today. It's been really interesting and fun talking to you. So if our listeners want to follow you, want to find out more about you want to come and listen to you on Clubhouse. Where can they find you?

Sure. So you can find Pretty well beauty@pretty wellbeauty.com or on Instagram at Pretty well Beauty. We are the Clean Beauty Club on Clubhouse and my personal handle is J A Z M I N and then letter A. Yeah, that's where you can find me.

Awesome. Well, we will include all of those links in the show notes, so please do go and check out Pretty well Beauty and Jasmine. Jasmine, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, Lorraine. Have a great, great day.

You too. So I hope this podcast has inspired you the way it's inspired me. Jasmine is trailblazing and I can only hope that other retailers, big and small, start to approach the beauty brands that they stock in a similar fashion. We are all in this together and I think Jasmine's mission demonstrates that loud and clear. Make sure you come and tell us on our social channels what you thought of today's podcast episode. And if you enjoyed our interview, please do leave Green Beauty Conversations a five star review. The more people who rate the show, the more people who get to hear the important messages we're putting out into the world. Thank you for joining Jasmine and I for the latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I really hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on itunes or Spotify and stay tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica Formula Botanica on Facebook, Instagram, Clubhouse, Twitter, YouTube, Pinterest or LinkedIn. Visit our website at formulabotanica.com and sign up for our free online formulation course today.