EP99. Makeup formulation with botanical pigments

Back in 2016, I proudly announced to my team that the next phase at Formula Botanica involved teaching makeup. We'd already finalized all of our organic hair care formulation teaching materials at this point, and the next logical step was to move to makeup. However, the first question that everyone asked, including me, was given the fact that we're Formula Botanica, the botanical formulation school, how do we formulate organic makeup with plant pigments? How naive I was at the time. I thought our cosmetic chemistry researchers would be done and dusted in about two years and that we'd be teaching organic makeup formulation before I knew it. Well, it's six years later and we're finally ready. Little did I know how many hurdles we'd have to jump over in the process of research and development on plant pigments. But now, all those years later, I'm proud to say that we're ready to teach the first stage of organic makeup formulation to our members in our membership site, the Lab at Formula Botanica. And we're starting with lipsticks. But how do plants even color the skin as part of a lipstick? Can plants even color the skin in pigments that we want to use? After all, we all know we can stain our skin with turmeric and beetroot, but that doesn't exactly cut it when it comes to consumer expectations of lipstick colors. Well, I can tell you that plant pigments can be used in makeup formulations. We've cracked it. And that's why, as of March 2022, we are now teaching our first ever mini course. We call it our Mini Lab on Botanical Makeup Formulation in our membership site, the Lab at Formula Botanica. And we're going to tell you exactly how it's all possible in today's podcast because I think this information should be shared and shouted from the rooftops given its implications for makeup formulation throughout the entire beauty industry. So settle in for another fascinating episode and get ready to be inspired by the amazing world of plant pigments. Welcome to Green Beauty Conversations, the podcast that challenges you to think about how you buy, use, make and sell your natural beauty formulations. We tackle topics that will make you think and encourage debate about green beauty with your friends, followers or customers. I'm your host, Lorraine Dallmeyer. I'm a chartered environmentalist, biologist and the CEO of award winning online organic cosmetic formulation school, Formula Botanica. We have thousands and thousands of students in over 180 countries around the world who study with us to become organic beauty formulators and entrepreneurs. Visit our website@formulabotanica.com to try our free online formulation course. So, in today's episode, I am joined by Rua Al Waqil, our cosmetic chemist here at Formula Botanica. And there is simply no one better to join me for this podcast as Rua is also the person who's been undertaking R and D for us on plant pigments and has been churning out lipstick after lipstick over many months. Hi, Rue, welcome to the podcast. It is so lovely to welcome you onto green beauty conversations.

Hi, Lorraine. Oh, I am excited to be here. Thank you for having me on.

This is such a great topic and we're going to have so much fun chatting about this. So, as the person who has been doing all of our R D on plant pigments and makeup over the last few months, let's start with the first main question that's on everyone's lips and can you actually formulate makeup using plant pigments? Is it really possible?

The wonderful news is, yes, it is. It's perfect. I found that it was possible and it's really exciting. I mean, I have to be honest, I was a little bit skeptical at first, but, you know, it just took me a while to understand what I needed to do to kind of essentially get the pigments to work for me the way that I wanted them to. It was quite a challenge, but I really enjoyed formulating with them.

Yes, I'm sure there are other people out there who are feeling a little bit skeptical about this as well, which is of course why, first of all, we're recording this podcast and we've got lots of other content going out for the mini lab that we're putting out in our membership site on lipstick formulation, which you've put together, sort of deal with those skeptics a little bit more. Can you give us some examples of plants that can be used to formulate makeup plants that can be used as pigments?

Well, I mean, I can tell you the ones that I worked with, so they were derived from radish, sweet potato, beetroot, turmeric and spirulina. But of course I did not create a yellow or blue lipstick. I tried doing a bit of color mixing and stuff to try and incorporate them, but it just takes some time to kind of blend them all together. I'll come back to the colour mixing and stuff later. But yeah, the main ones that I used were radish, sweet potato and beetroot.

I love it. But. Well, let's take beetroot as an example then. I mean, a lipstick is generally a lipophilic or oil based formulation. So we've all worked with beetroot, we've all boiled up beetroot and had, you know, bright pink fingers as a result of that in the kitchen. So how does a water based pigment like the one found in beetroot then work in a lipstick? How does it stain the skin?

Well, so the wonderful thing about these pigments is that they've been kind of, obviously they were extracted and they've been treated in a way that makes them dispersible in oil. So yes, they are water soluble, but they're also dispersible in oils, which makes them, which gives them the ability to be mixed with other oils and thus creating, you know, lipsticks and other oily products.

It's fascinating really to think that you can use these water based pigments and then actually stain the skin with them. Because like I said, I know that, you know, we've all cooked with beetroot before, we've all chopped up turmeric before and had bright yellow fingers. But when it comes to actually making something like a lipstick, how does a plant pigment like beetroot then really stain the skin? And then following on from that, because I know you have quite a bit experience, a bit of experience in makeup too, what did you find the staying power was like compared to synthetic or mineral pigments?

So I guess this is a good time to clarify that the colorants that are obtained from plants are created by groups such as anthocyanins, which give flowers and leaves and fruits their, their characteristic colors. We tend to call these dried colorants that we obtain from plants pigments, although they're actually water soluble dyes. So these dyes were obviously used historically to colour textiles, leathers and, you know, other materials. And if you think about it, all of those materials are quite porous, so the dye is able to penetrate them quite well. But when plant pigments are used on the skin, they can technically be washed away. However, the staying power does depend on formulation that you make with them, the different ingredients that you use to kind of stick them onto the lips, for example, and also on actual dye itself. I mean, turmeric, for instance. You already mentioned turmeric. But I just thought I'd do a little experiment yesterday to kind of remind myself. And I just rubbed a little bit on my hands and I had like a yellow stain on my hand for like hours. And I had washed my hands so many times and I was like, okay, this is why I didn't use turmeric in lipstick. So, you know, it does last for ages. I mean, I would say Turmeric was the one that lasted the longest. And beetroot, radish and all those, they do have a good staying power. It depends on different factors. So it's all kind of about trial.

And error, I'm sure to a certain degree. It also depends on, on the customer's expectations. I mean, if they go into this expecting it to be a 12 hour lasting lipstick, then maybe that is slightly more unrealistic with plant pigments. But I suppose that depends on the type of formulations you make, as you say, and the business that you want to set up to sell them, if that is what our listeners desire. So, talking about formulators, and I know that there'll be quite a few listening to this podcast and they'll be thinking about all the challenges dealing with sourcing plant pigments. They'll be thinking, first of all, where can I get plant pigments like this? But then there of course are other things, other challenges that that formulators might face. So could you walk us through some of those, please?

There are quite a few, to be honest. If we just start with the look of plant pigments compared to micas and synthetic pigments, and they do look distinctly different. Synthetic pigments and micas look very smooth, almost silky, and they have very little odor. And the particles are much more refined than plant pigments. And of course, they can be made in a larger variety of colors and kind of different finishes. So you get the matte, pearlescent, shimmery, that kind of thing. Whereas plant pigments are always matte. That is kind of the only finishing they come in. The thing that can be a little bit off putting is their smell. So the first time I was using them, I kind of, you know, I was so excited and I just opened the jar and I was like, oh, it doesn't smell good. I was just like, oh, no, I hope this goes kind of thing. But the good thing is it does go kind of as you process it and you add your other ingredients and whatever the smell does kind of fade away. Synthetic pigments are much more refined. Who knows, maybe in the future we can get much more refined plant pigments. But for now, you know, you will just have to put up with a smell and a bit of a taste. But it is worth it. I mean, I really did enjoy using them. Of course, the color palette is also quite limited. You know, if you're considering making makeup with plant pigments, you kind of have to really think about what you can realistically make with them, because I did mention color mixing. But if you Are quite new to this. Color mixing can be quite challenging. It does take a lot of practice in using them. And as I said, like, for our mini lab, the main pigments I used were radish, beetroot, and sweet potato. And these are all reddish tones. So if you do want to obtain a different color palette, you will need to start color mixing with, you know, curcumin, spirulina. I've also been using rice powder to give some opacity. And also, you know, it can be used as a lightener to add kind of white to it rather than titanium dioxide, for example. But, yeah, as I said, color mixing is an art form, and it takes a bit of time to hone and practice. But I do believe it can be done, but perhaps not to the same extent that synthetic colors can be mixed. The plant pigments that we used were specifically designed to be used in cosmetics. And so they're coated in a way to enhance their use and their formulation, including their particle size. So they don't actually have to be milled, which I found really great. Usually with synthetic pigments, you do have to mill them to get them to kind of be smooth and the way that you want them to be in your formulation. But with plant pigments, you can just use them as they come, which was wonderful. But at the moment, plant pigments for cosmetic use are not available everywhere. We use two different types in our kind of research and development, and the first set were from Aromazone in France, where you can buy small sizes, small kind of sample sizes to play around with, which is wonderful. The second set that we used were from sensient, which is a large ingredient supplier. And the MOQ is around one kilo, and the price per kilo is roughly about £200. You know, it really does depend where you are in your business if you are thinking of starting to formulate colored cosmetics. And there are other pigment suppliers globally, I'm sure, but many are focused on the food industry. And if they are branching out into the cosmetic pigment side of things, they probably have larger or similar queues and prices to what I've mentioned before.

Yeah, absolutely. And what I think is really interesting, and you touched on this already, is, of course, I think there will be more demand for this in the future. So undoubtedly there will be more plant pigments coming available onto the market. And it's, you know, people who are pioneering with these formulations like we are, who are sort of hopefully opening up the market as well. Another question I have tying into that, because I'm sure There are quite a few people listening, thinking, maybe I could just go and grow some colorful plants, dry them and grind them up or mill them down, and then formulate makeup. Do you think it could be as simple as that for. For some of the more sort of DIY or home formulators listening to this podcast?

That would be fun, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, no. We can't do that for products that we're thinking of releasing onto the market because we need to comply with rules and regulations and depending on where we are in the world, obviously, cosmetic products are expected to be safe and stable for consumer use. So if we do prepare the colors ourselves, they're unlikely to have gone through the extensive testing and ingredient that ingredient suppliers do with them. You know, they put their materials through safety and efficacy tests that we probably can't do at home. So we can't guarantee that they're going to be safe and stable. I'm not saying that I'm against experimentation. If there are people who want to try doing this and they're not selling them, they're not giving them to anyone, it's just for fun, let's say, then, you know, it would be fun to see. Why not? You should post some of those pictures in our online classroom because someone must have discovered these pigments by experimenting and doing these things. But nowadays, regulations are much more stringent, and to get an ingredient approved for market release can take years of safety and, you know, of safety tests and everything. Therefore, I think we just need to buy from reputable suppliers, and to some extent, we're actually buying ourselves kind of product security, and then we're less liable should any adverse reactions occur as a result of using a product that we've formulated. If we buy ingredients from a supplier.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, although it must be a lot of fun to try it out. And I do very much recommend, as you say, that, you know, some people maybe give it a go at home, but as you say, I mean, a lot of makeup products are obviously applied to the face near the eyes. You've got to be careful with what you're doing here and really know what you're doing as well. But a lot of that, as you say, comes through the pioneers who experiment with different ingredients. So let's talk a little bit more about legislation. Formulators working with plant pigments obviously have to navigate the complex world of cosmetic regulations as it is. And those regulations tend to stipulate that colorants used in makeup have to come from an approved list, which certainly doesn't contain the vast array of plant pigments that we're seeing come onto the market. And you've talked a bit about five that you've worked with, I have worked with. I have no doubt that there will be more coming onto the market in the future. How can you navigate plant pigments and the regulations? Like, how do you do that?

I mean, I would definitely suggest looking for plant pigments that are marketed for use in cosmetic products. You're kind of. You're one way to a good start. If you start by making stuff at home and then try and get it through that way. I don't think that's. I don't think that is the best way to go about it as there are so many kind of colors available for the food industry. I mentioned before, the food industry doesn't have the same regulations that we do in the cosmetic industry. And cosmetic ingredients follow the INCI system, which is obviously the standard by which cosmetic ingredients are named and characterized. And it's also regulated by the Personal Care Products Council. So this system helps to provide a sense of clarity, standard accuracy in the beauty industry, whilst also helping keep consumers informed. Therefore, if there are natural colorants targeted specifically for the food industry, it's going to be challenging to obtain kind of an accurate inkey for them. So it's really important to read and research before you include anything in your cosmetics and in your formulations. And you have to just make sure you're complying with the requirements and regulations in your particular country, because they can always vary.

Absolutely. And if anyone's listening and they want to understand the cosmetics regulations in the European Union in particular, and we actually recorded a whole podcast episode on this. So head back to episode number three of Green Beauty Conversations way back in the early days when we first launched, and we cover all the steps that you have to follow.

Yes. So as I mentioned earlier, when making cosmetics, it is better to kind of buy ingredients designed to be used in cosmetics. And I'm going to keep repeating this because I think it's really important, you know, for people to, if they are deciding to make cosmetics and they want to sell them, buy the ingredients from suppliers, reputable suppliers, and this is going to increase your likelihood of being compliant. It will be important for users to check their supplier, the status of the colour additives before use. You know, with regards to the fda, color additives which are exempt from certification, they generally include those derived from plant or mineral sources. Although it is important to kind of really research and identify if there are any specific concerns or regulations that need to be complied with. You know, something that I kind of found out whilst I was doing a lot of research was that, you know, there are some brands that do use plant pigments based in the US but they don't necessarily market them as we're using them as colorants. They market them for their other uses, which, you know, I've mentioned in them in the mini lab that they're, they're great antioxidants. So not only do you get color, you also get kind of antioxidant activity, which is wonderful. But you know, there are certain things that you can market them for, but you do really need to kind of look at your specific regulations and, and see how you can fit them in.

It's fascinating, really. It's a whole world that is still open for exploration, I think, in the cosmetics industry and I'm really glad that we're pioneering this. So on that note, can you tell us a little bit about what you think the market might be like for plant pigments in makeup? And is the beauty industry starting to become more interested in working with plant pigments as a whole?

Well, I mean, plant pigments were used historically for, you know, many different reasons, as I said before, you know, even for makeup, for fabric dyes and that kind of thing. But more recently brands have been releasing products that, where they have formulated them with plant pigments in addition to other mineral based pigments. So I've yet to see a product come onto the market that is 100% natural. But I think that they think that the natural element does add a unique USP to their products. So I think that they definitely see a value there. And yeah, as I said, I've yet to come kind of see a completely natural lipstick formulation. And I just think consumers are becoming increasingly conscious and they're almost holding a giant magnifying glass to our industry and they're assessing everything and they're actively looking for products that are made with more natural ingredients where possible. Just kind of in order to protect health and promote well being, I think.

Absolutely. And I look forward to going to some of the trade shows again. Hopefully this year and next one. I am sure we'll be seeing more plant pigments crop up and more brands start with using plant pigments too. So finally, and thank you so much for joining me for the podcast today. Ruha. So let's end on a fun note. What was your favourite plant pigment to work with during all of the research and development work that you've been doing for formula botanica in 2021 and why have you picked that one?

So, as I said, these plant pigments don't need to be milled, which I loved, so they were really, really fun to work with. You can just start dispersing them in the oil and in the oil phase of the lipstick formulation, which makes it quicker and. And you kind of more encouraged to actually start making different colored lipsticks and that kind of thing. So I did love using them, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to do so. I am a huge fan of red lipstick, and my favorite pigment is red radish, which I am actually wearing now. You know, I just think the color is so striking, and I often wear it when I go out and people are always like, oh, where did you get your lipstick from? I'm like, I made it. So it is, you know, that is my favorite. I will. I will stay true to my red radish.

I love it. And I know our listeners can't see your lipstick at the moment, but it is absolutely stunning. And hopefully we'll be able to put a snippet on social media as well and show off all of the fantastic work that you've been doing in researching all of these fantastic pigments. Thank you so much for joining me today, Arua. It's been a real pleasure chatting to you.

Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope it's made you think about how you could possibly formulate your own botanical makeup using plant pigments. Given the way the beauty market is going, I think this is the next big thing in beauty, as clearly there are hardly any brands out there embracing the pigments found in our colorful world of botanicals. It's clearly not a straightforward formulation route to take, but as Roa said, it could certainly be a very unique one. And as you've also heard us discuss in this podcast, March 2022 sees Formula Botanica teach botanical lipstick formulation for the first ever time. This is a huge deal for us, and I'm sure you're very curious about all of the training materials as well as the red radish lipstick that Rua has created in our exclusive membership site, the Lab. At Formula Botanica, membership is not normally open, as the lab is predominantly meant for our students. But we have opened up enrollment for new members, all new members, as of March 9th for one week only. So if you want to learn how to formulate your own botanical lipsticks, now is your chance. Thank you for joining Rua and I for this latest episode of Green Beauty Conversations. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did Please do leave us a five star review so that other people can enjoy these conversations too. Make sure you subscribe to our podcast on Apple Music or Spotify or whatever your favorite podcast app is and stay tuned tuned for the next episode. Follow Formula Botanica Ormulabetanica on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter or LinkedIn. Head over to formulabotanica.com and choose the Lab at Formula Botanica from the drop down course menu at the top to join us today so you can get started formulating makeup with plant pigments for yourself. Sam.