154: How to Effectively Communicate. Advanced Extreme Ownership Tactics, and Other Winning Tips for Life. Q and A.

This is Jocko podcast number 154 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

Good evening.

And we are going to go into some Q and A today.

Sure.

We got a bunch of questions to go through. I asked if anyone on Twitter had questions, and I got a ton of them. So we're going to try and answer some of them. Some people, if you're listening, and you asked a question like, what time do I go to bed? Or what kind of workout do I do? Or something like that, then I'm not going to answer it now because I've answered it a bunch of other times. Yeah, there's a lot of fundamental things, or it's in the discipline equals freedom field manual or, you know. So these were some questions that had a. Some of them. Yeah. That we've heard some of them before. Maybe there's a different spin, but some of them I tried to pull back or pull out the fresher type questions for this and ones that aren't entirely fresh. I'll try and cover very briefly with whatever the new sort of angle is, because there is a. There is a fact that.

You know, you go to a class and you learn two or three new moves in jiu jitsu, and that's good. But you also review just a. Just a arm lock.

Sure.

And that is still beneficial, especially if it's from a new angle or a new instructor. They tell you, hey, you know, you move your hand a little bit further out on their wrist if you're going for that thing, and it helps you.

Sure.

So there's little. Little details.

Yeah.

Cool. So let's rock and roll.

Cool. All right, first question. Can you describe how difficult or no factor leaving your family was before deployment? I hate leaving.

Okay, let me just answer that one. Yeah. It sucks to leave your family before deployment. That's the way it is. One thing that I've always said is, you know, to guys that were saying, oh, I got. I'm gonna leave my kids, and it's horrible to leave. And I'm like, yep, it is. And they worry about it from the kids perspective. I'm not gonna be around, you know.

Yeah.

Well, here's the deal. Men have been leaving to go and fight wars and do what they gotta do for. For thousands of years. And so your kids are going to be okay. And what's good is they will see what you're doing, see your service and your sacrifice, and you stepping up and holding the line for the nation. And that will be a lesson that they Will learn by observation. And so even they'll be sad, but inside their learning, they're learning that there's things more important than yourself. And so it's a good lesson to be taught. Yes. Is it. Is it horrible to leave your family? It sure is. But it is a lesson for your kids, and it is a sacrifice you're making for your country. And.

There is. There are benefits to it. You know, your kids. You get to come home and you'll see it, and you'll see your kids, you know, be all excited, and it's good. It's a good thing. So that's question one. Yes. It's harsh, but it's worthy. It's a worthy cause.

Yeah.

Kind of. Second part to the question.

Did you cry when you learned that your childhood friend committed suicide while. While you were doing buds?

Okay. Yeah. So I mentioned that on a couple podcasts ago that my friend Jeff killed himself while I was going through buds. He was a kid I'd grown up with, but I had. I'd grown apart from him in the later grades. Sixth, seventh, eighth grade. And through high school, we kind of grew apart. So I did not, you know, I was. You know, I was sad by the situation, but I didn't. I wasn't super emotional about it because I. We had. We had kind of grown apart, and it had been. You know, I was. It was now in the Navy. So. No, didn't cry, but was definitely sad about the situation.

Is it. I mean, kind of back to that first part about leaving.

Isn't like, that, Like, a healthy dose of that? Like, good for the kids?

For sure.

Because it's like, now they know how to make do, you know, like, if dad's there for every little thing kind of thing, for sure. And then, you know, the inevitable day comes that you're gonna go, you know, leave, or at least they gotta leave. You know, they don't have to depend on kind of dad being there kind of for a week.

The trials and tribulation and those things. Adversity will make kids tougher. That's just the bottom line. So this is adversity, and it's an adversity that kids, you know, it'll make them tougher, make them stronger. Yes, agree.

Next question. Any good recommendations for cutting back on alcohol?

You know, just straight up, why. Why would you cut back and not just stop? At this point in my life, I don't. I don't drink anymore.

And I know that some people have an alcohol problem. And so I think trying to cut back if you have an alcohol problem isn't a realistic thing to do because you'll take that slippery slope and just get drunk. So I think what you have to do is just stop. And.

I know that. And again, I'm not. I don't. I don't have a good familiarization to know what it's like to be addicted to alcohol. I didn't even. I didn't even really, like, consciously, oh, I'm gonna stop drinking now. I just stopped drinking because I was out of the Navy. I was working a bunch and carrying on and wasn't around those, you know, my bros anymore, where we'd go out and have a beer. And so if that's not happening, then it's not happening. And that's one thing I'll say is I know that people that have alcohol issues, addictions, they always say, you got to change the people, places, and things that you do. So the people you hang around with that like to drink, you can't hang around with them. The places that you go where everyone likes to drink, you can't go to those places. The things that you like to do that involve drinking, you can't do those things. So there you go. I would say stop drinking. And, hey, if you're an alcoholic, you gotta get medical supervision because that's actually. You can die if you're an alcoholic and you stop drinking.

Yeah.

So you have to. You have to, like, go and get help, but stop.

Yeah. A lot of those times, those. The people who are that far into alcoholism, where they stop drinking and they die.

Mm.

That's like. Usually they don't even want to stop drinking. Usually. That's just how I'm drinking. Usually. But I think I might have more experience on this one than you. But all those things, man, that's like a really concise in. In. In.

That's a good way to put. To put it, like the people, place and things. Right. Activities, whatever. But a big part of it, again, I said this before where. A big part where I would stop drinking. It was way easier when I just understood what it was, you know, like, understood, like, why am I just wanting to drink? And why is it that when I start drinking, like, it's kind of harder to stop, you know, Then maybe I don't know, the next guy or whatever. And then when I. Once I understood, like, what's happening physiologically or whatever, I came up with my own little strategy. And a big part of it was like, oh, yeah, like, I'm. My brain is like, tricking me into Thinking like, yeah, that you want this. This thing or whatever, that was like a major one and the other one was kind of has to do with the people placed in things. It was where if I had a reason not to drink, like, if I had a workout that I really took seriously the next day, or if I was going to record or something, dude. To do something where to be hungover or whatever would really mess me up, It'd be way easier, you know, so back, like, you know, in high. Not high school, but in college, like in athletics and stuff like that, you never really drink during the week because you had practice the next day. You don't want to be hungover and practice, you know, so it'd be really easy. Oh, yeah, we're not drinking today kind of thing. So if you can kind of set up your life where you have, like, something important that you can kind of look forward to and really care about the outcome of something that's not necessarily mundane in your. In your mind, because a lot of times that'll kind of. It's a slippery slope when you're like, yeah, it's important, but it's mundane in your life. You'll be like, let's see how I can endure it. Kind of hungover. It's kind of worth it. I'll pay the price now, you know, kind of thing. But, yeah, if you can set up your life where you. You have something that you find, like, important to be functioning fully, that helps. Yeah.

Jiu Jitsu. Train Jiu Jitsu on Saturdays. Yeah, that affected me when I was in the teams and we'd go out and drinking on Friday. And then when I started training Jiu Jitsu all the time, I didn't want to. I wanted to be good to go for Jiu Jitsu. So, yeah, I just, like, started. Started to stop drinking on Friday nights. Hard.

I would say this with Jiu Jitsu. I would say compete in Jiu Jitsu then, because. And I don't know, people are different. You know, there's a spectrum. But to me, Jiu Jitsu, I mean, I'll train hungover. Jiu Jitsu, in fact, Jiu Jitsu helps the hangover if you can drag yourself out of the house.

Yeah.

Which is. Actually isn't that hard once you do it once. If you go. If you're hungover and you're like, oh, man, I really don't feel like going to Jiu Jitsu right now. But you just do it the first time you do it. That's the hardest time. Every other Time. You're like, yeah, I did this before. This is easy. I'm not going to be suffering. You go, you know, depending on. Depending on the level of hangover, you're going to suffer in jiu jitsu. Or maybe not. After a while, you get used to it.

I don't know. Maybe I was training, like, at a higher level. And I mean, like, seriously, not trying to be, like, a jerk, but, like, I would. This is back when I was training with Fabio and so Dean and I would show up, and we trained for, like, three hours straight and, like, hard. And so if you're going to come in and do four rounds, yeah, you're a little hungover. It's no big deal. But if you're going to come in and you're going to train for, you know, an hour worth of class, then you're going to roll hardcore for. For two hours. You're not gonna. Trust me. You're not gonna want to be all hungover, dehydrated, and jacked up mentally.

Yeah, I dig it. And if you're gonna train that hard, then. Yeah, don't you probably. It's gonna be hard to drink.

And that's. That's.

Your typical person is not gonna train that hard. I mean, they're drinking too much. If you're a competitor. No, even people who don't drink don't train that hard. Typically, in my experience. I don't know. But if you're training for a tournament, it's gonna. You can take it way more seriously. Just kind of in the back of your mind, you know, it's not just like, oh, jujitsu training. So again, I'm not saying so that's not gonna work if you're just practicing. So it won't work. I'm not saying that. I'm saying people are different. And if I use myself as an example, like, I could. I could train. I could hang bros. I was training with, like, when I'd go train, like at atos or whatever with these crazy training sessions. Yeah. I would go slightly hungover. Go Dean. Every Friday. So. Okay, look, of course, I could probably train better if. If I didn't drink the night before. For sure. But I'm just saying as a. As a catalyst for stopping drinking.

That didn't help you.

It didn't help me as much as me.

Yeah. And it didn't even. It wasn't even like a catalyst to help me stop drinking. It was just the functionality of life.

Yes.

Was. Oh, I've got to do this in the morning.

Cool.

I'm not going to get all hammered tonight, so I can do better.

Yeah.

As a human.

Yeah. And that's really the format right there where you find something. I mean, to me, you know, like it or not, like Jiu Jitsu, just the training. If I wasn't. If I was competing, oh, I'd easily stop drinking. Easily. But just for the training, if I didn't have a competition or whatever. It wasn't. It wasn't. It didn't help as much as one might think. But if I had something like, you know, if we're recording or something, something. Who. Who that you would think you might be able to even. It just depends on how important it is for you to be functioning at the best level you can. You know, if I get tapped out a few more times in Jiu Jitsu, it's kind of like, whatever. So it just depends on who you are is what I'm saying.

Either way. Yeah, man, I think that helps. But that's gonna be hard either way if you don't have some kind of, like, format scaffolding in your brain to cut, like, a plan, you know, like a little strategy to be like, yeah, I'm just gonna drink less. Just kind of just gonna drink less. Like, it's pretty rare that that's gonna. Yeah, it's gonna.

Yeah, that's why I cut back. I say don't cut back. Just stop.

Jack.

Next question. Communication is often used as an excuse both under and over.

Under communication and over communication for why the direction isn't clear. Any suggestions on balancing comms communication up and down with the right level of detail?

Here's a jacked up answer. The answer to this question of how to balance comms is comms. You want to balance communications? You have to communicate. You have to understand, hey, do you guys know what's going on? You need to check and make sure that they know what's going on. If they know what's going on, great. If they don't know, then you didn't communicate with them enough. If you spent too much time communicating and. And now they're looking at you with a blank stare like, hey, bro, we got this. Then you communicated too much. So. And. And ask them, hey, do you understand what's going on? Cool. And if not, do you understand why we're doing what we're doing? Cool. All right, good. I'm gonna let you go do it now. So the answer to making sure you're not communicating either too much or too little is communication. I hate to say that but that's what it is. There can be some of that can be non verbal communication. You know, you can observe. If you, if you give your guys a task and then you go out and observe them and you see that they can execute it really well, then you know that you've done a good job communicating it to them. If you go out to observe them and they don't know what they're doing and they don't know what's going on, then you realize, oh, I didn't give them enough information. I need to communicate more. So you don't have to necessarily ask them. You can tell through observation and checking on them and seeing where they're at and what they're doing, if they actually understand what's going on. So, yeah, that's, that's it. Pretty straightforward. Get your little feedback loop going.

Yeah, that. But it is kind of like, and I'm going to use the word again, dance. It is kind of like a dance.

No, it's a dichotomy. Yes, you can, yes, you can communicate too much and you can communicate too little. And you have to find the balanced thing because if you communicate too much, people stop listening to you.

Right? And then it's no longer communication at that point because it's kind of like if you're sleeping and I'm like, hey, okay, Jocko telling you what to do, like, you can't hear me. It's not going into your brain. It kind of has to go in your brain. What I'm saying, you got to catch.

It does.

You got to catch what I'm throwing and you know, and vice versa, if we're quote unquote communicating. So.

Yeah, you don't need to put quotes around communication. It's just a word.

All right, well, there you go. But, and if, if one of those, even one of those things isn't happening, we're technically, we're not communicating. So, like the whole over communication thing, that's like, yeah, someone talking too much and the other guy stops listening.

Are you over communicating so far in this podcast?

I'm just saying, like how you say, like feedback, you know, like that, that's an important thing because if you're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, and how you say the blank stare, communication's gone. Communication's not going on anymore.

Look on my face right now.

Yeah, like the one. No, no, you're giving me feedback, which is good. See what I'm saying? So now I'm clear. I'm clear that you want me to move it along. See What I'm saying, good communication on your part. Here's the thing with you and your blank stare. In my experience, which I have a lot by, the way, your blank stare communicates way more than just like a blank stare. For real. Mike Sorelli will tell you all about that. Like you'll, you'll have a whole conversation with me and not even say one single word for real. I know exactly what you're saying. See, like right now, I know exactly what you're saying. Anyway, next question.

That's exactly what I was saying actually.

Like I said.

Taking ownership. How can you prevent your boss thinking you're a complete screw up and stop it from escalating to a point where he starts blaming you for things, you're not actually at fault.

So this is one of those catch 22 situations where you actually don't think you're at fault. So when you actually don't think you're at fault, then you're thinking, oh, I'm just taking ownership. So that, that's like the cool thing to do. And that's what I'm trying to use this as to make, to improve my situation, right? I'm going to quote, unquote, take ownership. And when you quote, unquote, take ownership, but you actually don't believe you're at fault, then you're not at, you're not really taking ownership. So when you look around at your mission, at your task, at what you're being told to do, and you say, oh, I've got to do this thing, oh, it didn't go right and I'm going to take ownership of it and get it fixed. If you're just saying that and you don't actually mean it, then your boss starts blaming you for it.

Well.

You should feel that way because when your boss blames you for something, you know what you should be saying? Yeah, boss, I know I said that this was my responsibility and this is what I'm gonna do to fix it. You shouldn't. When your boss starts blaming for you for things, you shouldn't say, well, no, actually that's not my area of responsibilities. What you should say is, oh, yes, boss, like I just said, this is my fault. And here's what I'm do to fix it. That's what you do. So you actually think about this.

When you're the type of person that takes ownership of things, you actually can't get blamed for things. You can't blame me for things because I'm already volunteering and saying that this was my responsibility. I'm gonna fix it. So that's what you do. That's what you do. You take ownership and you take real ownership, which means when there's a problem, you look at it and say, this is, hey, this is my fault. Here's what I'm do to fix it. And when your boss says, hey, yeah, this is your fault, you go, I know, Boss, I know 100%, and this is what I'm do to fix it. And then you go fix it.

Yeah. And the thing that I did notice, I said this before too, but I think it's easy to sort of forget when. Especially if you're thinking like this. Which is which I dig, man, is the whole, what am I gonna do to fix it? Because when you. When you like, for real, take ownership, whatever. It's because, man, just like how you say. It's almost like what you just said, where, where you. Where you say, you can't blame me. You can't blame me because I already took responsibility kind of thing. Because. And in a big way, it's not necessarily about blame. It's more about fixing problems that are gonna come up. Nothing's perfect, you know, so now it's like, it's more of like a way of dealing with problems. Less than a whole blaming, take blame thing.

In culture, in business, in teams, people blame each other. That's what happens. And if you're the person that says, hey, you know what? This is actually my fault and this is what I'm going to do to fix it. There you go.

Yeah.

Then that blame. You can say, yeah, blame me. I'm. I'm the guy, because that's the guy that made this mistake. No factor.

Yeah, yeah. And then you can just focus on fixing the problem. And you meant. The thing is, the reason I bring it up is because it is easy to forget that part. Because that blame is in the problem part. Yeah. With extreme ownership. I mean, obviously, because it's like, hey, I took extreme ownership. Like, why, why didn't he do.

Now why are you saying it's my fault?

Yeah, yeah. That's not the main part. I part is like, you gotta fix it. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, I think so. All right, next. Next question. I have two warrior kid daughters who are very much on the path with pretty much everything but snacking. They're sit. They're starting to put some weight on as a result, despite tons of physical activity and good eating at mealtime. How can I coach them in this area without being overbearing?

I would say don't have Snack food in your house, that's junk, which you probably do don't. And yeah, that's, that's real simple. What are they gonna do if there's no snack food in the house? How are they gonna snack? Yeah, the answer is they're not because there's, they can go out and eat grass from the yard if they're still hungry. But so that's, that's one thing. The other thing is you got to be careful with, with kids. And I'll say this, with girls especially, you start throwing that like, hey, you need to watch your weight. You can really mess with their body image. So you got to be really about what you're doing with a kid, with a, with a little girl. Guess what? Little girls, little boys, guess what they are when they're little. They're little pudgy little creatures, you know, and sure there'll be some genetic kids that have 2% body fat and a 12 pack of abs when they're 6 years old, but most kids are like little, a little bit pudgy. That's part of their prepping for their growth spurt.

Yeah.

And if you're all freaked out about it, um, you know, just what you're gonna do is you're gonna put that in their head. They're gonna start looking in the mirror. And you don't wanna do that to your kids. So don't have any junk food snacks in the house. Give em some milk, Right? Give em some warrior kid milk because it tastes delicious. It is like a snack and it's good for em. And it'll beit'll be satiating. I know you don't like that word echo, but it'll satiate them, it'll make them feel full. So that' sthat's a good kind of snack food to have in the house. And if you're gonna have other snack food, then make it beef jerky. Make it some healthy, you know, some carrots, some, some celery. You know, make it some good healthy stuff. But yeah, like worrying about your kids starting to put on some weight when they're, I don't know how old they are in this particular case, but just be careful. You don't want to, you don't want to freak your kids out and get them with a, with a really paranoid body image, especially girls. They're getting it from million different directions and you got to be careful with it because that's a real, that can be turned into a real problem.

And the thing that, that actually you clarified really good to Me one day where when you kind of implement change, you know, in a routine, especially if snacking is kind of like a routine or whatever, when you implement change like it's good, there's gonna be some hiccups there, you know, like whether it be, I don't know, in this case, like complaining, like, hey, what? You know, you're, you're saying, hey, don't keep snacks in the house. So now there's no chocolate cover pretzels anymore youe know, like, hey, I remember the chocolate covered pretzels. They were right there in the little pantry right there. Now they're gone. Like, what up? I haven't seen them in days. Yeah, you're like, we're not doing the chocolate covered pretzels anymore or whatever. There's going to be some blowback there, especially from the little kids, you know, they're going to be like, well, dad, you know, there might be some complaining. So I think if we go in or when we go in, knowing those things, that helps a lot. So you're kind of prepared for it. You know, you can kind of plan what you're going to say or how you're going to handle.

You're getting way too intense with this. There's no chocolate covered pretzels. Guess what? They didn't have them at the store. I'm not getting them. They're bad for us. We're not eating them.

I dig it. But a lot of times when you have, you know, two girls or whoever.

You know, it's good to get a pull up bar.

Yeah, but they're not.

Just get your kids on the pull up bar train.

Yeah, but they're not gonna be like, hey, oh no chocolate pretzels. Oh, I'll just do pull ups. It doesn't work like that with the little kids.

It's not that big of a deal to take to pull a snack out of your house.

Yes.

I don't think, especially if you get some beef jerky and you're like, ah, you know what? That stuff's bad for us and I don't want to eat it anymore. So I got some beef jerky here. It's really good. Taste it.

Yes.

But to get ready, it's seaweed. You know the dried seaweed.

Oh yeah.

I like used to eat that stuff. Like it was like they were damn octopuses.

But that's good though, right?

Yes. I like the dry seaweed. Yes. I was pounding some of that the other day with both my kids. They like it salty delicious. Anyway, what I'm saying Is, I'm not saying necessarily make it a huge deal. I'm just saying if you're ready for the blowback, you know, because what if you're not ready? You think that.

Okay, I'll agree with you. Just so we can move this conversation along, in order to prep for if you stop the chocolate covered pretzels in.

Your compound, you don't really agree, you.

Can come up with a plan of action. A plan of action, an immediate action drill. When that six year old goes, dad, where are the chocolate covered pretzels? You have a very well rehearsed response. You can do some role playing with your wife and you can go.

Yeah.

See, I see what you're doing and cool, man, I'm telling you, this helps. This will help. Because you know, the poor kids, you care, you know, you care about the short term a little bit too, you know, of course the long term, you know, that's why you're doing the whole thing. But all you gotta do is explain, hey, you know what? Hey, we're not doing that anymore because it's not good for us. Okay, Straight up.

Cool.

There it is. That's not a huge. Well rehearsed.

Anyway, role play with your wife.

Next question. Why isn't MMA or Jiu Jitsu a bigger component of law enforcement training? This seems to be a huge missed opportunity.

Yeah, it certainly is a huge missed opportunity. I.

Plead with all law enforcement personnel to train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, mma, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, as much as you possibly can. And I plead with law enforcement agencies of all types that I talk to to get these types of programs in your departments because there is no doubt that it will help you help your officers be better and more prepared to handle situations on the street. Just had a police officer coming here the other day that was just signing up and you know, she just got done with the police academy. And I'm so thankful that she's here because I'm like, yes, go and start training immediately. And it will be so beneficial for you in your career, in your life. And one thing about all these things and any form of martial arts for like self defense or self defense situations or, you know, because that's sometimes what it turns into for a police officer. They're no longer, you know, once you things, things cross over from where they're on offense to where they're on defense. And for a police officer, this is a great example. Like this was a female and hey, could a female 118 pound female police officer take a guy that was drunk Slightly drunk, a wrestler who's 240 pounds. The answer is no. She's not going to fare well in that situation. But if she knows, if whatever she knows, if she know if she's trained, she might be able to prolong that conflict long enough for her backup to arrive. She might be able to stay alive, keep control of her gun, whatever, you know, keep control of the situation long enough that she, that she will get her back up there. So that right there. And that's the same thing I tell females that want self defense. It's like, hey, look, I'm not saying you can't because you look at some of our female jiu jitsu players, they will choke out a dude straight up, they will arm lock them like for real. And a 200 pound wrestler, they'll put a guillotine on them and choke them, put them to sleep. So that's, that, that can happen. That's what someone that's really skilled to make up for their lack of strength and lack of size, being a female. But what if, even if you're not that good, but you can postpone, you can prolong someone trying to grab you and take you somewhere, someone's trying to do something to you, you can prolong it. The longer you can delay the, the offense from taking place, the better chance you have of somebody else coming along or somebody noticing or that person just giving up. Because most, most criminals are, you know, weak minded and they don't want that kind of resistance. Yeah. So yes, totally. You're asking why isn't it. There's a bunch of reason reasons why it isn't. And one of them, and I've talked about this before, but there was, there's been cases where people that were not trained enough, they were trained enough to be dangerous, where they've choked guys to death and that has happened. You crush someone's windpipe, you can be screwing around and, or you just not screwing around, but you, you can be, you can be screwing around. You could, you know, you and I could, could start wrestling around. If you and I were white belts and we started going at it really hard, there's a chance one of us could get the other one in a chokehold. Had a couple drinks in us and next thing you know I put you to sleep, which is, oh yeah, I'm gonna put you to sleep. Because sometimes you choke your friend, you're like, I'm put you to sleep.

Yeah.

Well if I'm drunk and you're drunk and I put you to sleep and I Don't really know that you're asleep yet. And I'm squeezing extra hard because I'm drunk. Next thing you know, I look up and all of a sudden your hyoid bone has crushed your windpipe and you're now gonna die. So that's happened in law enforcement. They've banned chokes, which is a horrible thing because choking is a. Is one of the best and most minimal forces to use to subdue someone is to choke them. Even an arm lock is going to break their arm. It's going to ruin their tendons, it's going to hurt them. A choke doesn't even hurt someone. It just puts them to sleep, just incapacitates them. So, but that's one of the reasons why they don't teach it as much. The other reason is they don't give enough training to law enforcement officers. And they need to. They train an absolutely pathetic amount of time in what they call defensive tactics, generally the police officers call defensive tactics, which is them fighting and maintaining weapon retention and all that. They train a very small number of hours a year. They measure the time that they train in, in. In a year, in hours. That's how little they train. So my, my, my campaign I'd like to go forward with is I think that police officers should spend one fifth of their active duty time training. 1/5 of their time should be training. That's the way it should work. And I don't know how I'm going to start that ground wave, but there's. That's such a solid idea that no one can argue against it. There's not one single argument against every police officer spending one fifth of their time training. And if you want to argue with me about that, and the argument is, well, we won't have enough police officers out on the beat then. And here's the question back at that. Would you rather have eight highly qualified, highly trained officers out on the beat or 10 officers that were barely trained at all? And the answer is so easy to that question. So that's a bunch of things. I'll continue to push that as much as I can. And I know a ton of law enforcement people listen to this and just, you know, I think that's a great idea to start pushing from the ground, from the grassroots. We want one fifth of our time training. It's going to make us all better. It's going to prevent. Think of all the time that's hours that are wasted in legal actions after there's a bad shooting or an injury or something like that think of all the stuff that gets wasted there. Take the officers and train them properly. That's what. That's what needs to happen. So hopefully it will.

And then what would you suggest that. I mean, kind of obvious what you said, but you suggest, like, you know, police officers going and getting training on their own. So, like, you know.

Yes. You know, if you have to go get training on your own, go get training on your own.

Because most Jiu Jitsu places, they'll have a law enforcement. Like some kind of deal.

Yes, some kind of deal.

Yeah. Actually, this guy, you know, Craig, right. Hanami, the guy from Hawaii. Okay. Police officer up in Oregon, if I'm not mistaken. Always doing Jiu Jitsu, like, with his uniform on. And you can look. Look him up on Instagram. You can see all the stuff he does with Jiu jitsu. And he applies it to law enforcement.

Yeah, yeah.

And it like, man, it's such a clear demonstration of the benefits and, you know, whatever. Everyone who trains, like, you know, it's like, man, it becomes really, after you train for a while, all this dealing with other people in chaotic situations. Brats. It's liter truly easy.

Yeah, it's easy.

So, man, yeah, get watch Craig and his stuff. And I don't. And here's the thing, though. I don't know how that works with, like, work and, you know, hey, you're at risk of injury. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the whole deal is. But, man, the way I see it, man, trains or Craig's over there training all the time.

Train.

And so, man, yeah, just train on your own until your situation arises with this law enforcement.

Yeah, well, hopefully they'll implement that sometime in the future, man.

Next question. Bow or not. Okay. In Jiu Jitsu, he's three months in professor not bowing. I don't. Other practitioners bow. No one told me when in Rome versus I'm not in a herd respect.

The professor mats and practitioners, this pretty simple question. Some people bow when they go on the mat. Some people bow to the professor, some people don't. I don't. I just kind of do whatever and it doesn't really matter to me. And there's a little bit of paranoia in the question, which I. I understand, which is like, hey, hey, when in Rome, do as Romans do. But at the same time, you know, I'm gonna hold the line kind of on my personal values. So it's like, I don't. I'm not bowing. Right. That's not my Gig or, hey, it's respect. You gotta bow. Like, there's both those extremes, and both of them can be articulated in a way that's fine. And to me, I'm just like, whatever. Oh, everyone. It looks like everyone's bound. Cool. Not. Not that big of a deal. I don't. I don't freak out about it. Yeah, it's not that big of a deal. I think it. To me. To me, the overall arching principle of my actions, bowing or not bowing, is more based on my overall principle of not making a spectacle out of myself one way or the other. Like, I'm not here to, like, draw attention and be like, hey, I don't bow, or, hey, this is jiu jitsu. You need to respect the matt. I'm like, over here just trying to train.

Yeah, yeah.

Not trying to make a big deal out of myself.

Yeah.

So if everyone's bowing, it's like, cool. Like, they know, no big deal. I get it. Or if no one's bowing and it's like, hey, no big deal.

Yeah.

I guess people might be disappointed they don't have some hard stance. Right?

Yeah.

But I don't.

Yeah, there's.

There's some things I don't worry about. That's one of them.

Yes, I believe that.

Yeah. How about we just train?

Yeah. Agree. And that'll sort itself out anyway. Because if you're at a school, because some schools sort of require it, that's the protocol here at this school. But you can have that exact attitude. Be like, cool. That's what we're doing.

That's cool.

Some people, you bow on the mat. You bought off the mat at the beginning of class to the, you know, to the picture, whatever at the end, like the whole deal, but same deal. It's like, bowing's not hard to do. It doesn't, like, you know, affect your family life at home or nothing like that. It's just. Just bow. Same thing with not bowing. Doesn't affect your. It's not hard to not bow now.

I guess there's a line in either direction right there, you know, where you could, you know, you could be telling me, like, okay, when we bow, you need to bow and you need to praise. Yeah. Praise the praise instructor, whoever. It's like, okay, probably not. I'm probably not going to do that. You know, like, we're not. We're not worshiping. Right. We're not bowing. It's like, okay, a little sign of respect. Cool, I got that. But we're not going to turn a respect into A worship, there's a line that will not be crossed. The other direction is like, oh, you know, someone's teaching a class and I'm just going to run my mouth and walk onto the mat like it's no big deal. No. Like you're going to be respectful to the instructor, of course. So I'm just going to find a little balance there. Balance those two dichotomies.

So what if you go as a guest or whatever at another place and their protocol is, in your opinion, like, sort of crossed over to worship?

I haven't really been to an academy.

Crossed over into worship, but let's say it did just a little bit. Or like, would you go as a guest? Do you just go through the motions out of respect for.

I might. What I would probably do is go through the motions, but then do other actions that would indicate to everyone that I have a free mind and that I'm not down with what they just did type of scenario. Like, I wouldn't be obnoxious about it, but I'd be like, oh, you know what I'm gonna do is take off my gi and sit on the mat right now.

Oh.

Oh, that's not allowed. Oh, okay, sorry. Cool.

Oh, my bad.

No, yeah, yeah, no big. Then put it on. Like, all right, you know, cool. Whatever. Just kind of like, just indicate.

Would you say at my academy, like, we don't care about these small things.

Yeah, maybe. Like, I don't know if I do that because then you're just trying to. Trying to, again, make a spectacle. I'm not trying to make a spectacle, man. I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to. Trying to be, you know, just trying to get some training in, man. To be honest with you. I just want to train.

Yeah. So don't make a spectacle and get in the way and let that spectacle get in the way of your training.

Yeah. How often are we making. I mean, how often do people try and make spectacles out of themselves? It's like, people do that.

Yeah.

And that's not cool. Like, don't do that. Don't be a spectacle. Just be. You know, I told that story before about the. The. When I went to University of San Diego and there was a professor there that was like.

She was an American, but she was a Buddhist monk. Right. You know, so she had at some point converted to Buddhism and. And she would shave her head and walk around in the robes and stuff like that. And I was like, you know, one of the tenets of, you know, being Buddhist is To, like, not make a spectacle of yourself. And yet here you are walking around a Western campus, you know, you know, in a. In a uniform with a shaved head. That's not. That's not that you are making a spectacle of yourself. So I was just like. I would. I would think it would be more like the Buddha to just wear, you know, a pair of jeans and a T shirt and just have, like, whatever. Normal. Just be a normal. Just look as normal as possible. Yeah, there's a whole, like. There's a whole thing that's sort of my. That's sort of. I fall into a. I fall back on that, you know, like, a lot.

Yeah.

So.

Because you'd think that she might argue, well, this is how us Buddhists, like, minimalize our whole efforts to have individuality or whatever. But at the end of the day, you are. Yeah.

Like, when you're in Thailand, which is awesome. Like, the Buddhist monks, they're everywhere, and they're there. That's what they do. And so they're not making a spectacle of themselves at all. And they come around and get rice in the morning. It's very cool. It's a very cool culture. But if you're in a culture of a Southern California university, there's no other Buddhist monks that are walking around. So you're kind of, hey, maybe I'm wrong. You know, I'm not trying to disparage, you know, this individual. I'm just saying from my perspective, I was like, if you really want to have the. The low profile and not bring attention to yourself and give up, you know, give up the. The trappings of ego. Right. You want to give up the trappings of ego, then you don't want people to notice you. If you don't want people to notice you, you dress like a gray man. You just, like, kind of normal.

Yeah.

You know, very forgettable. Yeah. So anyways, not trying to get, like, deep into the religious aspect of jiu jitsu and robes.

Sure.

But that's just kind of my opinion.

I dig it. All right, next question. Did you ever have cct? Did you ever have a CCT attached to your unit? And if. Yes.

How was having them alongside and what advantages did they bring to the battlefield?

So CCT is an Air Force combat controller, and they're special operations guys. They're awesome guys. They go through really hardcore training, and I. I didn't really. I worked with them occasionally.

Not very directly on a couple occasions. They were great guys, but I never worked with them enough to. To be talking about them. All the time. Because I just didn't have that experience, you know, I don't talk about bull riders either because I don't know many of them, you know, so it's just, it's just that. But they're great guys. I know they have an awesome reputation and my friends that work with them love to work with them. If there was a guy that was. I've had a couple guys kind of heard names of. So for as far as coming on the podcast, yeah, of course, I'd have one on the podcast of without question, no problem. And what we did, what we had was we had Anglico, which was Dave Burke and his guys. They were the guys that were doing the CCT type mission for us when we were in Ramadi. So that's one of the reasons why we didn't work with them very much on that deployment. The previous deployment, we had my own. I had my own jtac and that's who we work with. So just, just, just didn't have that opportunity. So they're awesome guys, though.

Next question. Jocko, currently in a busy and stressed place in life and keep looking back at what could have been. How do you bounce back to doing you and not getting in your own head? Appreciate what you and I could do. Thank you both and God bless.

All right. You know, we can look back all day long at what could have been and it doesn't matter. Well, the only thing that matters from the past is what you learn from it. So let's learn from it and look at the future. And one thing I'll say is.

Oh, it's like this saying about when's a good time to plant a tree.

Yeah.

Do you know when the best time to plant a tree is?

Right now.

Either 22 years ago or right now. Right. Like that's. Look, you didn't do it then, so guess what you can do? You do it now. When's the best time to start a savings account?

Same deal?

Yeah, it's the same thing. Like I, you know, 20 years ago or right now. So if you sit there and say, oh, well, I could have done if. I wish I would have done this years ago. I wish. Well, guess what? You look up in a year and you don't have that little sapling now. You could have a little sapling, right? You have nothing. So it's not that big of a deal. Hey, you. You went through life, you made some, you wasted some time. Good. You didn't waste it completely. First of all, you learned from it. You got Experience, you had fun, you did other things. You, you learned about. You learned about relationships because some girl dumped you and you realize that you can't over commit to a, to a liar. You know, like, you learn these things, right? So just because things were negative experiences in the past and they didn't feel good to go through, doesn't mean that they were all bad because you still took something away from it and you learned from it. So that's part one. Part two is, what are you going to do? Plant a tree today? That's what you're going to do. Plant a tree today and start to nourish that tree and take the lessons that you learned to sprinkle on that tree and feed that tree so it can grow fast. That tree that you plant today should be able to grow faster than the one you would have planted 20 years ago because you have the knowledge on how to. On how to nourish that tree and feed that tree so it can grow quicker. So just get on the path. Don't. Don't play around with what's going on in the past. Learn from it. Move on.

Yeah, man, that goes along with how, like that little speech, it wasn't a speech, but a little talk you had with me about, you know, you gotta play the long game or whatever, and kind of in this case, same deal where it's more so than even play that you are playing the long game, but keep the long game in mind because that's, you know, those thoughts like, dang, I should have. I should have went to college, or I should have, shouldn't have went to college. I don't know, whatever. This whole what could have been kind of deal, that's like your mind saying, like right now, if I would have done that back then, right now, I would have this. And that's the part that kind of messes, like jams you up mentally, right? Where you're like, man, I could have had this right now. So when you think so, you don't.

You.

So as a result, typically in my experience anyway, which is almost none, but typically I think like, wait, I. Because when I think of what could have been because of this thing that I kind of want right now, I don't want a seed right now. I want what I could have had. That's what I want.

You can't have that. So plant the seed.

Yeah, so. But kind of emotionally or mentally, that's not where your mind is. Your mind isn't like, hey, I can't have that. I accept that. And so let's think of the future. Now. Your mind doesn't do that. It's more like hung up on that. Right. What you don't have right now, that empty void that you have, you don't want to fill that void with a seed. A seed doesn't do nothing for me. Not even a sapling that doesn't do anything. A full grown tree. That's what I want right now. That's what I could have had. So how is a seed the problem or the solution to my problem? But if you're looking at the big picture, the long game, as you so eloquently put it that day, the seed is nothing but a tree at a different time. That's really what it is. See, I'm saying. So that is a solution. See what I'm saying?

That might be the most philosophically bold and unbounded statement you've made on this. The seed is nothing but a tree at a different time. Thanks for that. I like how you did that. Good job. It's all been worth it.

The pain and suffering of listening has finally paid off.

Good. Cool, man. Thank you. Anyway, so, yeah, I think if like you can keep that long game in mind. That's helped me like a lot with just even like small little things, you know, stuff is like uncomfortable. I don't want to do this right now, but you know, this exact thought, like, man, I, I'm. I'm looking forward to the day that I'm not. I'm thinking the opposite of what could have been. I'm think. Now I'm thinking, I'm so glad I planted that seed last year or whatever, you know, so you can look at the long game and kind of fulfill all that stuff. Sure. All right, anyway, next question. Hi, Jocko and Echo. My name is spelled wrong by the way here, but. Hi, Jocko and Echo. Quick question. I really get, I get really bad anxiety doing almost everything. For example, when talking to people, I always feel like as if I'm gonna say something stupid and this makes me start to stutter and lose my train of thought and I just go blank.

Hey, I'd say on that one, first of all, you gotta condition yourself, you know, you gotta practice, you gotta rehearse. Actually, first of all, I would say go get some speech therapy, someone to help you out, because that will, that will be beneficial to you getting someone that's a professional to, to come in and say like, okay, here's the drills that we're gonna do. My buddy that drums in my band, he. There's Drumming drills that you can do so you can get your left hand to do something different than your left foot and your right hand to do something. There's drills that you can do to overcome. Because if you're like me, you're not a drummer. My right hand and right foot are going to do the same thing at the same time. My left hand and my left foot are going to do the same thing at the same time. But there's drills that you can do to overcome that, and there's drills that you can do with speech so you can practice and you rehearse and you think about it, then you'll get better at it. And the cool thing is, like, once you start to build some confidence, then you get more and more confidence, and you'll get better and better at. The other thing I would say is talk about things that you know. Right. Don't try and explain things that you don't know. Don't try and try and come up with some theory that you don't understand and try and just roll it out off the tip of your tongue because you don't know it. So just when that's happening, just sit back and kind of formulate your thoughts and think, okay, of all the things I'm thinking right now, what do I actually kind of have a grip on? Maybe it's a question. Sometimes forming something in a question will make it easier for you to state it because you're saying, hey, I got a question. And now you're not putting pressure on yourself to come up with this perfect yarn of why that you. This theory that you have. Instead of, you post something as a question that'll take some pressure off you and talk about things that you know. And if you don't know it, then ask a question about it, and that'll get you more comfortable. And you keep talking and keep trying, and over time, you'll get better and better at it. But you have to. You have to not jump in. Like, don't go and volunteer to give the speech at the local club. Right? No, volunteer to. When people are having a conversation, say, hey, can I ask a question about this? Start with that. That's like, the easiest entry point. No one's expecting you to say anything brilliant when you ask a question. They're just expecting you to ask a question.

Yeah.

So it's not that big of a deal. And then just build on that, man. It's exposure therapy. Yeah, exposure therapy.

Next question.

When you transitioned from E to an O.

How did you approach working with. With men? You previously served with as enlisted, now that you were an officer.

This is such an easy question, because the bottom line is, when I transferred from being an enlisted guy to being an officer, I didn't change anything in the way that I treated everyone. I treated people the same. And when I was a young enlisted guy or a senior enlisted guy, well, more senior. I was never like a. I would. I only made it to E5 before I went officer. But when I was in my third platoon with other guys that were not in their third platoon, I treat people like, hey, man, with. You know, hey, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna make it happen. Now, I gotta caveat that for the guys that were in platoons with me when I was in the E5 mafia, hey, I was a little crazy with the hazing. And, like, it did suck to be a new guy in one of my platoons, and I get that. But as you guys have told me, you appreciated it. Once you got a little, you know, once you saw the big picture, there was appreciation, but no, from a. From an actual working relationship, hey, you know, what are you gonna do? You gonna stay humble? You're gonna treat people with respect, regardless if you're above them or below them in the chain of command. There's this saying that I didn't talk about when we had Derek Herrera on. And. And it's pulled from that speech by Jacqueline, by Gunnery Sergeant Jacqueline. He says at the end of the speech, he says, not above you, not below you. Always beside you. So think about that from a leadership perspective. Not above you, not below you, always beside you. So if you have that attitude, look, I'm not above when I'm. I'm not above you and I'm not below you. Like, we're equals, and we're trying to figure out how to best solve this problem. And if you treat people like that, regardless if you're above them or below them in the chain of command, you'll treat them with respect and humility. You'll be fine. And that's what I did. I didn't treat anybody any different. And I mean, I had. I had guys that worked for, that worked for me, that had been my peers or that I had worked for before. When I. When I went through that transition and it was like, no factor. It was literally no factor because these guys were. You know, when we were friends, we worked together, we focused on getting the job done. When they were above me in the chain of command, what did I do? I worked hard to Focus on getting the job done. When they were below me in the chain of command, oh, no, it's like, hey, they're working hard. Did they become less of a person? Did I become more of a person? No, no. I put a different rank on my sleeve. What does that mean? Nothing. It doesn't mean any. It means. Yeah, what does it mean? It means that.

I'm going to be given this brief instead of some other guy. Cool. No big deal. You know what? Why don't you give the brief? I'm fine with that. So, yeah, respect, humility, and never above you, never below you, always beside you. That's a good little thing to think about.

Very good. Did you ever have the situations where you're throwing darts at the guy's back at the bar, you know, for your hazing situation? No, no, sure.

We did some pretty. We did some pretty rough hazing, though, for sure. You know, lots of. Yeah, it was. It was not fun. It wasn't fun.

Fun.

It wasn't fun. You know, and it was part of the ritual back in the day. It's not as much as it. Any as it. It's not as much as that anymore. But, you know, guess what? Guys are fighting a war now.

Yeah.

So I'm not like, oh, those guys don't have it. It's hard. Guess what? When I got. When I was in the teams, when I first got to the teams, it was like, oh, cool. Oh, you're in the teams. Yeah. You're gonna get hazed. Ooh, guess what these guys are gonna get nowadays. They're gonna get shot at. They're gonna get, you know, hit with IEDs. So not that big of a deal. It's just a little bit of a culture change, and that's the way it is.

Next question. Dichotomy of leadership has some great principles. What is an appropriate philosophy concerning time to train versus manage out a direct report when they have been in the role for over a year.

Yeah. This changes from industry to industry depending on the situation that you're in. And sometimes you don't have. You have a really tight timeline to get people up to speed. And if they don't get up to speed, you got to get rid of or otherwise it's going to cost the team or it's going to cost the company money. So how long are you going to give them? You're going to give them as much time as you think you can give them before they start detracting from the team. You're also going to make sure that you're not investing so much time into one person to try and get them up to speed that you're ignoring everyone else. And now it's having a negative impact on the team. So you just got to look at the timing again. I worked with construction companies where if they don't get a job done on time, it'll cost them $60,000 a day. They don't play around like they need someone that's going to be able to get the job done. You get some sales organization that's commission only, and there's somebody that's taking a while to get up to speed. They don't really care. It's not costing the company anything. So you got to figure out in your industry how much time that looks like. And then you got to set the expectations clearly. And once you've done that, you say, okay, listen, bud, I've been working with you for this amount of time. Here's where I want you to be at this date. If you don't get there, we're going to move you out, man.

Man.

That's the way it is. Pretty straightforward.

Next question. I have to coexist at times with an individual who knows I am ex army. He purposely makes pro Taliban quips to piss me off. As I'm in a position, I can't do much about it.

His intent to anger works, but I don't show it. What's some advice?

Yeah, I mean, this guy's just. Just. I would just completely ignore him, you know, And I actually, you know, hey, that's funny, man. Cool. He's obviously trying to get under your skin. And just don't let him get under your skin. That's just all there is to it. This person is worthless. And just ignore him. I mean, you could go to the extreme of taking, like, in Mark's mission, where Mark actually gets in on the joke.

Yeah.

You know, and if you want to, you know, but then you might be crossing. Again, I don't know the specifics of this situation because there's times where that's not Like, I wouldn't do that in certain situations. Like. Like, no, I'll ignore you, but I'm not gonna play along with this joke the way you're saying it, but there's times where I'd be like, oh, yeah, guess what? You know, I might play along with the joke just to defuse it.

Yeah.

Again, this might be a. This might be a guy that doesn't deserve that. But, yeah, ignore it, man. Go. Don't even worry about this idiot. That's. That's my advice.

Yeah, that ignore thing, you do that super good, where it's literally like you feel like you got no feedback from my little joke. Like, if I make a joke to you or something. And it's almost like, did he not hear my joke? Because he just sort of moved on, you know, kind of thing. And it's really compelling me to, like, not tell that joke anymore, you know, kind of thing. And I'm assuming it works really good, actually.

And he actually did have an example. Like, the guy would say, hey, you're aiding the Taliban with this. With the check this week. Like, I don't know if the check is junk or this week's check. Anyway.

Yeah.

So it seems like he's trying to be funny, you know? Like, he's not trying to be a dick to the guy.

No, he says he's purposely trying to piss him off. And so for me, if you're purposely trying to piss me off, me getting pissed off is you winning.

That's the payoff.

I'm not gonna let that happen. Yeah, I'm gonna win. How am I gonna win? By not getting pissed off.

Yeah. And your little. And your ignore tactic that you do in real life, by the way.

Yeah. And I'm not saying, like, the ignore where you're like. Like a little kid ignores, like, a little kid. Just ignore them and they, like, turn their back. No, it's like, oh, yeah. You know, just like. Just like, meaningless. Like, your. Your little quips literally mean nothing to me whatsoever. So whatever.

Yeah, and that's a skill, too, which apparently you've honed over the years, because it is. You got to. You can't oversell it. You can't oversell ignoring somebody. Otherwise, you're like, you're not ignoring. I got the payoff. So you can't oversell it. And, you know, underselling ignoring means, like, you're not really ignoring, I guess. But if you can nail it. If you can nail it, like, literally, your joke or your comments or whatever are falling on deaf ears, you know? And they don't, like, affect me at all. If you can nail that. Yeah. I would say that that would compel a normal person or this kind of person, whatever, to stop it. Where. I think that works with everybody, even little kids.

Once again, you don't make a spectacle out of yourself. Let it roll. Like, you're not making a spectacle of, like, I'm ignoring. You don't make a spectacle of, like, hey, shut up. You just play it in the middle and you just go through because, because there's things in life that don't matter. Yeah. I'm not saying that you, that, that there's, that there's things that you don't react to because there certainly are. And I'm not saying that you want to be this neutral person through for all things, but there's things that just don't matter. Yeah, there's things that just, they just don't matter. And this is one of them. This guy doesn't matter. What? Who is this guy? He doesn't matter. So don't put any effort into him. Just stay neutral. Oh, give him a smile and a nod and keep doing what you're doing.

Another tip too, for this. Don't tell other people. Like, oh, that guy pisses me off with that. No man, you forgot about that. Totally just forgot about it. Yeah.

Never tell anyone when something pisses you off. Never.

You know, that way because if you do and then you're, you're nailing the ignore tactic, you're nailing, delivering it perfectly. And then, and then you told, you told your friend or whatever like, hey, so that guy knows that, oh, he's just ignoring me. But, but that really pisses him off, you know, so just keep doing it. And, and here's the thing too, about playing the game like, or, or going along with the joke like haha, yeah, that's funny. You just basically you kind of involve yourself in the game. Sure, he's not getting the payoff necessarily, but he'll just change his tactic because you're still in the game with him.

You want to, you want to get out of the game. That's why, that's why in that particular situation, you know, Mark, and Mark's mission was trying to befriend.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

So that's a, a different situation. He's not just trying to diffuse or he's trying to actually befriend him. And so then he needed to make a connection. That's the clear difference. If this guy was like a co worker or a boss or a subordinate that you're trying to build a relationship with, then I might take a little step, you know. And again, am I going to joke about somebody being pro Taliban? I'm not probably joking about the Taliban very much.

Probably not, no. Yeah. Cool. Next question. Is it better to remain single if you have a dangerous or demanding career in order to protect your family from unintended negative consequences, or find a partner willing to embrace the risk and raise warrior kids together?

Hey, man, it's hard to live the life and it's a lot harder on your family than it is on you. You, because you'll be over getting after it and your family will be at home not knowing what's going on with you. So it's hard. But I mean, obviously having kids and raising little warrior kids with. With a partner that's in the game is. Is awesome. It's hard to find someone to get married to that's that good to go in the game, especially if they're real young. So I got real lucky. I married a girl that kind of got it. We'll say. And, and I said this when I was on Ben Shapiro's show, that the quality that she had and still has that I think is, is the most important.

Is.

Emotional independence. And I don't even know if that's a thing. I don't know if I just made that up, but that's trying to describe that. You know, my wife doesn't need the hey honey from me. She doesn't need like a hey, how's everything going? She doesn't need that from me. She's fine. She's emotionally independent. And of course she's independent in the way that she can take care of whatever the kids and the puking kids and the kids diapers and the kids and the broken water heater and the flat tire on the. Cuz you can handle all that stuff too, when I was gone a lot. But most important is she could. She. She didn't need the constant like, emotional recharge from me because she's a independent, stable human being of her own. So I think that's the kind of thing you've got to look for. Now, unfortunately, a lot of times dudes are attracted to the person that's emotionally dependent on them because it makes them. It's a little ego boost. It makes them feel good like, oh, she needs me around. And it's like, that's. So you got to watch out for that. You got to find someone that kind of has their own thing going on, which also has to be balanced. Because if you find a female that is too, has too much independence, then guess what? She ain't gonna be around when you come home. She's gonna find somebody else. So you gotta find that balance as well. But if you can find that, that right person, don't rush into it. Take your time and, and, and she's in the game, then yeah, man, get after it.

Gotta say, that's a good question.

Yeah, it is. Like, and you Know, a lot of times, guys, guys. And here's another, like, this is just an. It's an answer that's not really an answer. And yet it's fully an answer. Hey, I'm married and I'm thinking about going the seal teams. What will this do to my marriage? It's like, oh, there's a 50% chance your marriage is gonna get destroyed because you're gonna be gone all the time. Your wife is gonn the teams. She's going to be jealous of the travel. She's going to be pissed that you're not home. She's going to be pissed that when you get home, you're going to the bar with your boys instead of going to the recital for the daughter. Like, that's, that's a reality. So, yeah, I can't recommend it. At the same time, if you're squared away and you have a good relationship, yeah, it'll be awesome. It'll be awesome. But it's, it's a really hard. Like when guys, when I meet a guy that's 19 years old, 20 years old, and he says, yeah, you know, I'm. I'm going to buds and I'm getting married this summer before I go straight up, that's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. Don't do that. If you're in that situation, don't do that. Because if you are, if you have a great relationship with that person, say, look, I'm going to go through buds. I'm going to be focused on that. It's going to take me some time. I'm going to show up at a team, I'm going to go on deployment, I'm gonna come home. It's gonna take about three years for all this to happen. When we get done with, when I get done with all that, we'll get married because we are so strong and so tight that we can get through three years without, you know, being married. We cool. Let's see what kind of response you get from that. Because it's non committal, right? Because it's showing the female, hey, I'm non committal. When actually you're saying, listen, it's not that I'm non committal. I don't even know what holds in the future. I don't know what the future holds for me. It's gonna be crazy. I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't want to drag you through a bunch of crap. Let's just pause on moving forward with the marriage part. And once we get done with that, you know, give me. Give me two years, give me three years, and then you can see if you still want to be around. You. You think you want to be around right now. You haven't had it. You haven't had a dude that's going on to plan women for seven months after he gets done with a one year workup where I was gone in 12 months. I was gone nine months. That's a whole nother thing. You. You may not want to be in that situation, you know, Ma'.

Am.

So if you're in that situation. Yeah. Don't get married. And do people pull it off sometimes? Yeah. Flynn Cochran got married, I think, before buds.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And so that's. That's one guy. But. But it's a rare occasion, and most of the time it doesn't work out as well as Flynn. And it worked out for Flynn. Why did it work out for Flynn? One of the reasons he married a girl that is emotionally independent and can do her own thing and wasn't waiting on, you know, that. That. That emotional boost.

Yeah.

You know, so there you go.

And here's the final answer. It's like, you know what the right answer is? You actually know it. So many questions you actually know the answer to, but you want reinforcement of them. And. But. But the only person that can answer these questions is you. The person. You got to listen to what I'm saying. Sure.

Yeah.

But you got to look at your future spouse and be like. Or potential spouse. You're the one that knows.

Mm.

Now, what's hard is guys, especially guys, they go head over heels for females.

Yeah.

They go crazy. They go nuts. They don't even see straight.

Yeah.

You can't. I had guys in SEAL platoons where I was like, listen, hey, bro, this girl that you're involved with right now is going to ruin your life. I want to tell you that. Let me tell you what she's done so far. You're not married yet. I know you want to get married in two weeks. So far, she stole your credit card.

She's called the command four times to request to talk to the master chief about your orders. This girl is a nightmare. Please do not marry her. And guys are like, bro, you don't understand.

And that's the way guys do it. And how do I know that? Because I was the same idiot when you're 15 years old. Oh, my God. It's the only. No, it's like, no, that's not the only girl. It's not there's more. So just calm down if you can. If you. If the marriage is meant to be, let it be, but let it be in a year. Let it happen in a year. Don't be getting married in three months. Don't be getting married in two months. Don't. Don't get married in six months. Get married in a year. Get married in a year and a half. Do me a favor. Do yourself a favor. Do us all a favor.

There you go. Sounds like sound advice. Thank you. Next question. Could you talk about how you read a book to get so much out of it that you do?

Oh, yeah. Here's what I do. When I read a book, I read the book. As I'm reading the book, I highlight the important parts of the book. Then I go back through and reread what I highlight and pull out the pre. The creme de la creme of the information. Another small part thing, if you're reading a book with a lot of characters, write down the characters and kind of like give them a description so you can refer back to them when they show back up again. Because sometimes I'll lose track of characters if it's a complex book and you just don't. You just don't know. So that's what I do. I read slowly. I actually. It's horrible. I wish I read faster. I read at the speed that I talk. Just about. I read a little bit faster, but it's just about the speed that I talk. And I read every single word. And when I will say this. When I do read a book slowly and like, I do read, I remember a lot from the book, which is cool. But read it slowly, highlight it, take notes. There you go.

Next question. What was plan B if you rang the bell?

There was no. I wasn't gonna ring the bell. It wasn't gonna happen. It seriously wasn't gonna happen. And. But. Well, here's what could have happened. Happened. Injury. You can get injured in buds.

Yeah. Yeah.

And some injuries are more preventative, like shin splints. If you train properly beforehand, you probably won't get shin splints. But if you're doing rock portage and you. There's big waves and you're bringing a boat, a Zodiac boat or a IBS boat up the rocks in big waves. You can just get your knee broke. Like, it can happen. So then what would happen if I would have gotten. I would have. Would have, you know, gone to the fleet, healed up, come back. That's what I would have done. Yeah. Try again. It's that's one of the scariest things about buds from a guy that, like, the guys that I know that were like, yeah, we're never gonna quit, but they, There's a possibility you're gonna get injured.

Yeah. Can you get rolled? They call it rolled, right?

Yeah, you get rolled back.

What about, like, even if you get sick, right? Like, a doctor can be like, hey, you can't continue.

Yep, that can happen. That can happen. That happens to guys in hell week. They'll get pneumonia.

Oh, yeah.

And they're just, they can't. Like, they're, they're not quitting.

Yeah.

But they're coughing up blood. They're spitting blood out of their mouth and they're like. And the doctor's like, hey, are you okay? I'm fine. You know, and so they just have to. They just have to get rolled back. Yeah, it happens. Happens. There's very few people that don't get rolled back. Oh, yeah. It's a pretty small number that don't get rolled back at all.

Really? Yeah, like for medical.

Medical failure. If you fail something, you can get rolled back. If you fail a run, I forget, I don't know what is right now. When I went through, if you failed to run, okay, you got a write up. If you failed another run, you got rolled back.

So you got to do the whole thing again.

You gotta do the whole thing. Yeah.

Not just the run. Run.

You gotta do everything again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The whole thing.

It's a nightmare. So I failed a run, a swim.

Obstacle course, like, and then you just freaked out. I was so paranoid. I think you could actually, when I went through, you could fail one per phase. So there was three phases.

Yeah.

First phase, second phase, and third phase, you could fail like, like one of each thing per phase. Which is. Which sounds really lenient.

Yeah.

But dang, you're doing. Because you're doing a timed run every week. Yeah, a timed run every week.

Yeah.

And then you're doing a million. They just call them conditioning runs, which is the most understated name for a run ever, because what they really were is just the most grueling, as fast as you could go through the soft sand runs.

Like, for how long? Four miles?

No, no, no, dude, no. And not only that, you ran till you ran to breakfast and back. Then you ran to lunch and back, and you ran to dinner and back. And each one of those runs was one mile. So there's six miles before you ran anywhere before your conditioning run and your timed run. You're doing a six mile Run every day. Just. That's awesome. That is awesome. And that's not a sprint. Sometimes you have to run fast, sometimes you run slow. Slow. But it's just like a. A lot of times, just a little, you know, typical military shuffle.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right. So. Yeah, but I wasn't bringing the bill.

No, man. Next question. What actual strategy should a Jiu Jitsu white belt employ during a roll other than relax, tap early, tap often, etc?

Well, those are the key points. But the other thing is, I would say try and do moves that you've actually learned instead of. Instead of doing something that you. You. That you just, like, you're spazzing out, trying to do some random thing, actually do something that you know. And if you get in a situation that you don't know what to do, remember the situation you were in so that you can ask an instructor, hey, here's where I was. I didn't know what to do. Can you please help me? Yeah. Simple. Pretty straightforward.

Yeah.

Next question. If a coworker were attempting to bully, intimidate, or make you generally miserable, do you go with it? Would you make a mention of your Jiu Jitsu knowledge or keep it a surprise?

I like that question. Yeah, I would keep it. I'm. I keep everything a surprise. Right? I just keep everything a surprise because I'm not here like, hey, you know Jiu Jitsu, you better back off. You know, like, what is that? Instead you're just like, hey, man, all good. You know, and then let that guy find out for himself that, you know, the hard way. Yeah. Either the hard way or someone will be like, hey, man, you know that guy that you keep messing with? That guy trains Jiu Jitsu every day. He's gonna choke you out and put you to sleep. And then guess what he's gonna do? He's gonna get mouthy because he's already been. He's already been testing you, and he's like, oh, he's kind of a wimp.

Yeah.

So, I mean, there's no. Like, is there even a cool way you can say, I trained Jiu Jitsu, too?

No. Because even if you pull it off externally, like internally, you're like, you know.

Who said it cool?

Who? John Claude Van Damme.

Hoyer, Gracie. Oh, yeah, Hoyer, Gracie.

I dig it.

He was surfing, and I think Kid Pelago told me this story. Might have been Hoyer that told me this. He was surfing, and somebody wanted to, you know, give him some beef, get nuts. He wanted. Somebody wanted to, like, you know, hey, what are you doing out here? Type thing. And he was like, you know, he did what I would do, you know, he just kept surfing kind of. And then the person started talking more, and then he started running his mouth, and then Hoyler said something like.

Hey, you like to surf, I like to fight. If you want to fight, we can do that.

And I thought that was a pretty cool way of saying it.

He told that story. I think I was. Unless he told another time to you at Brian Sergeant's promotion to black belt. Oh, really? I think Kid Polygra was here too. I forget. But yes, he told me he told.

That story to, like, the group.

He told it to me, and I.

Thought you were there, right.

Yeah, he was. Yeah. I thought there was, like, kind of more.

He said it cooler than that. Yeah, yeah, he said it cooler than that. He said it some way that was like, yeah, listen, you like to fight. You like to surf for your life?

Life?

I fight, yeah.

For my life. Yeah.

You surf for a living. I fight for a living. It was something even more than what I said, but it was good.

Yeah, we can fight, we can serve.

Yeah. It was the kind of thing where you're like, if you were that guy, you'd think, you know, yeah, maybe I'll not do this whole thing right now.

I remember thinking the same thing as you. Like, dank. That was a really dope way to say it, you know?

Yeah.

Plus, like, you know, that. That guy, obviously, he didn't know who that was. Was, I'm assuming, which would be kind of crazy if he didn't or if he did know who he was, but. And then what if, hypothetically, later he found out, like, who that was?

And he'd be like, occasionally I've had people say things like. Like, they kind of know. So they'll say like, oh, you know, let's go. You know, something like that.

Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, man. Cool. That's always my answer. Oh, awesome. Yeah, cool. You want to go now? And then they're always like, oh, no, no, no. Oh, just kidding.

Yeah.

Cool.

All right, next question. What do you typically wear when you meet the bosses of companies? And why?

Oh, hey, man, if you're working with Echelon front, then pretty much what we all wear is the. The EF polo, the Echelon front polo shirt. And, you know, we. We called the what we wear business tactical. Yeah, yeah, just polo shirt and a pair of pants. And what. The question is, why? Well, that's just because it's a. To me, it's the same kind of thing I've been talking about. Just sort of a normal thing to wear. Right.

Don't really travel as much as I travel as little as possible I can with a full suit and. Yeah. So just comfort and functionality.

Yeah.

There's the answer.

Yeah. And of course, you don't show up in your shorts.

Yeah, no, know we're professional and Rashkar. Yeah.

Remember you used to. He used to wear a suit. Right. Like back in the.

Yeah. I mean. And I still wear. Will wear a suit sometimes, but usually not, man. Usually not. You know, even.

Usually people. People know who we are now.

Yeah.

And so if we're going to show up, they realize what they're getting, which is like, hey, these guys are. These guys are going to come in and talk to us and they know what the deal. Yeah. There's all the footage of us on. On the videos and stuff. We're wearing kind of the EF uniform. So business tactical. Get some.

All right, next question.

And I guess there is a. There is a. A small bit of like, hey, we're not.

We're not standard business people. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that makes sense.

It's like, hey, like, you're in a room with people with a bunch of suits on and they're like, oh, who's presenting? Oh, it's that guy over there. Because he's wearing something different. Different. Okay, we get it. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Just a little identifier. Echelon front.

Yeah.

On the shirt. All good, good.

How do you grow better, faster, stronger with your romantic partner over time without being a brute?

I just, I don't even. I just kind of had to put this question in here because it was. I don't really understand. I mean, just because you're bigger and faster and stronger doesn't mean you're a brute, right? What. What is that? How do you overcome that? Be nice to your, you know, your girlfriend.

Whoa.

Your wife.

What's the.

Your romantic partner like?

What does that mean, though? Like, if you're working out with your romantic partner or like you're getting bigger.

And faster and stronger and therefore you start treating your girlfriend like crap. Like, no, it's like, no, actually you'll probably be nicer because you're bigger and faster and stronger. So it's kind of a non question, I guess, but I just thought it was fun.

Yeah, it is.

Because you think, you think, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do squats today, then I'm just gonna go yell at my woman.

Being a. Well, the. Being a brute, that part I can. I could see that, you know, because, you know, like, let's say, like, you gained £20, £30, let's just say. And it's like all muscle. You're super strong now, you know, I don't know. And, you know, you come home, you're just more of a. Like the stuff that you do, you know, you'. You know, like, you're just way more brutish. You are. Yeah.

So. So I don't know. Vacuum harder.

No, you gotta vacuum with more finesse. You gotta focus on the finesse part of it. No, otherwise you're gonna be all big, fast and strong. That the. And I. I'm. I think I understand the question, but here's a. Here's a tip that I haven't been married forever, but significantly long. Here's what I found out. Like, a lot of stuff. Like, as a guy, you think, like, hey, I'm not really gonna do that because, like, that's not important. You know, like, you have a set of things that you think are important and they're based on certain ways of thinking, then the girl's gonna have things she thinks is important. And in my experience, which I, from what I understand is very common, that the things that some girls think are important, they can't really put their finger on it or why they feel important or whatever, but they just do. And the guy will be like, that's not important. You can't even explain why it's important. Therefore, I win the whole importance, significance argument. So at the end of the day, they're not going to do these things. Just little things. Show me that you care. These sensitive things, things that go against being faster, strong, more brutish. But if you can keep in mind that little. Little things, even if you don't think they're significant, actually do make your romantic partner happy. And if you can consistently maintain that, regardless of how big, fast or strong you get, that'll help. She's gonna embrace your big bigness, fastness and strongness. Take it from me. I know.

Cool.

Next question.

In cooperation and negotiation, is there a tell to know when you're breaking your personal code and compromising too much? Is it a gut check or is it gut check or logical?

This is a weird one. This is kind of a confusing question. So I just kind of. Kind of answer it to the best of my ability. The biggest thing I notice when I'm. When I'm interacting with other people, the biggest thing that I pay attention to is Am I paying it. Do I care about this particular thing because of me or because of. It's going to help the team? And if you can get through that, if you. If you really just say to yourself, hey, am I doing this because I'm going to help the team? Or my. Am I doing this because it's about me? If you pay attention to those things, and I'm not saying that every time that you say, hey, you know what? I need to take care of me a little bit, because you have to remember that you have your strategic goals too, right? But most of the time, the success of the team is going to help your strategic goals. Now, so for me, my constant thing is, hey, why am I. Why. Why does this concern me? Does it concern me? It's basically, does this concern me because my ego or not?

Yeah.

And if it doesn't concern me because of my ego, then it concerns me because it's not gonna benefit the team. So let's help the team. So that's. That's what I. That's what I look at the most when I'm negotiating, when I'm cooperating. You know, if. If. If you and I were negotiating a deal, right, and I was gonna buy a car from you, and I was like, you know, you want to sell it for me for ten grand, and I want to get it for nine. How much of it? And you're like, okay, you know what, Jocko? I. I got it on the lot for. For 8, 800. Can you give me $400 over the. What I paid for it and give me 9200 or whatever? And I'm like, no, I'll only. How much of that is me? Just. It's just my ego. I just want to win the ego fight against you. And how much of it is me? Like, hey, that's actually a pretty good deal.

Yeah.

And. And why not take care of this guy? Because I don't know. I don't really know you, but hey, man, maybe we'll buy something else in the future. Maybe I'll. You'll help. You know what I mean? So am I trying. Is. Is it my ego or is it just a bad deal if you're like, hey, nope, it's 11,000? And I'm like, okay, you know what? I'm not gonna pay that. So it's not. It's not my ego. That's just not a good deal at 10 grand. It's not a great deal at 9200. It's a pretty damn good deal for me. And it's, you're gonna make some money, and I'm happy that you're gonna make some money. Cool. You know what? Let's shake hands. Let's make a deal. There's times where this is. So this is the point. There's times where my ego. I'll be like, no, I don't care. I don't care. If you're only gonna make 200 bucks, that's your problem. You shouldn't have paid so much. When in my heart, I know, like, hey, that's actually a good deal. I'm getting a really good deal, but my ego's not letting me have closed it.

It.

That can be. That can be a problem. So when I'm negotiating with someone and it's not a good deal, they're not going to get me to do what they want me to do. It's just not going to happen. If it's a fair deal, hey, we'll make it work. If it's not a fair deal, it's going to be problematic. Yeah, you don't want to present me with unfair deals because I will not be accepting them.

Also, does it seem like it's more of a question, I guess, to you? You kind of got to, like, be truthful to yourself, like, consciously too, right? Because when you. Because you give it, like, how you say, you got to ask yourself, is this. Is this good for me and my ego or is this good for the team? Like, as far as me not compromising my, you know, not compromising or my personal code or whatever.

Yeah. And there's values that I will not compromise. Yeah, right. There's values that I will not compromise.

I would think that that'd be for a very specific reason, you know? You know how, like, some people, they'll be like, I'm just not like that, but they don't really know why. Like, hey, well, I don't know. Maybe because my dad told me that one time when we were fishing or whatever the it. So there's a difference, is what I'm saying.

So.

But here's the thing. And I say this because this is what I'll do. Sometimes I'll be like, hey, you know, this is more important because of, you know, I don't know, my health.

Oh, you'll rationalize.

Yeah. You know, and. Yeah, I'll essentially, like, twist the truth to myself to kind of. Of explain to myself again how important this is, you know, for the team. You know, one of those things. If that's important, there's other ways to do that.

So, so, so to. To your point, that's what I'm saying. When I'm thinking about decisions, I'm asking myself, hey, is this my ego or is this. Or am I doing the right thing for the. For the team? Yeah, because there's. That's what you should be checking on. Right. If you're doing it for yourself, most 99% of the time, if you're doing something for yourself that hurts the team, the long term is not going to be beneficial to you. The long term is not going to be beneficial to you because you're doing something for yourself. Everybody sees that. You don't think they see it, but they see it. So you try and do things that are going to benefit the team. And sometimes 99% of the time, when you do something that benefits the team, you're going to benefit from it as well. Well, but you have to see the long game, because sometimes the short game, it's like, oh, no, if I do this for the team, that means I'm going to miss this, this weekend. And that sucks. Well, guess what? In the long term, when you work this weekend and cover for the other guys that couldn't make it in for whatever reason, you're going to have a better relationship with them and they're going to come for you next time. It's like, it's long term. It's going to be good.

Yeah.

But you're worried about you, and that's. That's a problem.

Playing the long game again.

Yeah. Always got to play that long game. Game.

Next question. Best way to get your team. Get you team in. Okay. Best way to get your team to buy in to your vision.

Let it be their vision. Let the vision come from them. Right? And the more the vision comes from them, the more the plan comes from them, the more they buy into it. The more you force the vision and force the plan down their throat, the less buy in that you're going to get from it. Now you, if you're super persuasive, you can do a better job of coming up with a vision. But why do that? Why not say, hey, guys, you know what? We're gonna put together the direction that this team is going. Give me some feedback, give me some bullet points. Hit me. Now they all come back with bullet points. You assemble them together. It's like, hey, this is what we're gonna do. Boom. Everyone's on board. That easy.

Our plan.

Yeah. So much easier with our plan. And you, if you're scared of the that and I Think if, oh, if I give the team the opportunity to come up with a plan, they're going to come up with a plan that sucks. Well, how well did you train them if they come up with a plan that sucks? You haven't trained them very well. Most of the time, if you train them decently, they're going to come up with a plan that's close enough to the decent plan that they can go and execute it. We can all execute it together. That can be part of the vision. Let's go.

Hey, Jocko, what would be better? Verbal communication with concept of prioritize and execute. When talking to my wife, life, she oftentimes feels overwhelmed with how many decisions she has to make. She hates when I use the words of prioritize and execute.

Well, the root problem there isn't that she hates the.

The.

The words prioritize and execute. The. The problem is, is that you're. You're telling her what to do. That's. That's, you know, instead of being like, hey, you know, hey, if you just prioritize and execute, there's. If there's at least an 8, at least a 50% chance that she doesn't even want to hear your suggestion. She's just telling you because it's vent. She's venting to you.

Yeah.

So for you to be like, man, those are a lot of decisions to make, that's hard. If you were to say to her, how do you.

How do you handle this? Because I know you're doing this every day, girl, I'm impressed. How do you do that? And then she says, well, you know, it's hard, but here's what I do.

Yeah.

So if it was just a matter of.

Renaming it, it's like, hey, we'll call it, hey, you know, what you need to do is grade and go or what. What you need to do is rank and roll. What you need to do is triage and check off what you need to do or. Or designate and do. That's what. You know, there's a bunch of different ways you could phrase it, but that's not what's making her respond in a negative way. She's responding in a negative way because you're saying, hey, here's all you need to do is prioritize. Next cue.

Right?

That's a snow.

What she needs is some sympathy, some listening, allowing to vent. And then you can say, hey, if you've done that properly, you can say, well, you know, I did read that book, and it's kind of saying there's a bunch of crazy things going on like you've got going on. They say to do the same thing that I see you do, which is you pick the most important one and then you kind of focus on that. That's pretty cool.

And you do that pretty well, by the way.

You do that well. Yeah, you do that really well.

So just take a little different approach, man. Yeah, it's not just the words. The words are not what. I hate to break the news to you, bro. The words are not pissing her off. You are.

Listen to her, it seems. Notice some people, they come you a problem, they don't want a solution. Oh, yeah, that happens all the time. They just want you to sit there and listen to them. Yeah, my wife does that. For sure?

Yes, sir, for sure.

You know, hey, there's this problem. Problem. Oh, why don't you do this? It's not that easy.

Okay, fine.

Why don't you just tell me more about the problem and I'll sit over here and listen.

Don't say that, by the way. You got to do that. That part. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's almost like what it is. Like it seems like that. Yeah. That they don't mind so much the suffering of the problem. Suffering. I'm overusing that word. I know, but like, they don't mind the suffering. They just want to. They don't want to suffer alone. So if like, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm having like these issues or whatever. First is like, hey, come suffer with me. Sympathize, empathize or whatever. We can suffer together. That, that's, that's why I'm coming to you in the first place. So I can get closer to you. Whatever. Whatever.

I don't know that I'm totally reflect and diminish. Do you remember when I talked about that?

Yeah.

That's like a. Such a good tactic in this situation. Reflect the emotions back to them.

Yeah.

But diminish them a little bit. So if they're all freaking mad about something, you go, oh, I can't believe that. But you don't be as mad as them. But you don't be. Hey, calm down. You don't say hey, just prioritize. Next. Cute.

That's a rough one.

Actually, to be honest, I felt that before where I'd come to my brother's typically the one I've come to him with a problem. And here's the thing. I didn't want sympathy or empathy primarily, but I wanted a little bit, you know, so you can't just roll Sit there with your apple or whatever, all casual like. Yeah. All you got to do is this, you know, like, kind of like you're so done.

It's.

You get this feeling.

I'm not saying, by the way, you want to know why your brother or you or whoever can look at that problem and, like, come up with a solution? It's because they're detached. They're de facto detached from the problem. So when you're all wrapped up in the problem, you're like, hey, I don't know what to do because I got this, this, and this. And your brother's like, well, just do that. And you're like. You get mad. He's able to see what to do because he's on the outside.

Yeah.

So if you can learn to detach yourself, you won't have to rely on getting other people to help you.

Yeah.

If you can't detach and you're all wrapped up in the emotions of the situation, you're gonna. You're gonna have to go, someone to help. And then when you do, don't get mad at them when they just tell you the solution.

Yeah, But.

But when you reverse the roles and you take ownership of trying to provide solutions, you gotta realize that it's your fault that your solution isn't being well, welcomed. Yeah.

And that's kind of the point where, like, I'm trying to gain an understanding, you know, because easy. When you're detached and this person is like, why are you complaining about, like, because this is how you feel on the front of your mind, you're like, why are you complaining about this? Why don't you just solve that problem and never complain about it ever again? You know, that's the feeling the other person had, that detached person, the. Huh. You know, in this case, the husband or whatever. So what I did was I imagine my situation that I'm on the other side where I kind of like, I know what it feels like to kind of want some sympathy. I don't want sympathy. And that's it, you know, but of course. But I want some of it. So imagine that feeling that. Or I imagine that feeling that I got from my brother at times when I come to him with a problem that's bothering me or whatever, and the part. And the fact that it's bothering me means nothing. And so the fact that the way he presents a solution with no empathy and sympathy almost says. Actually it feels like it says, you're so dumb. Like, you're dumb.

Yeah.

You know, like, why are you wrapped up about this thing. You're dumb kind of thing.

So from a leadership perspective, from his perspective, he should recognize that what he needs to do is massage your ego a little bit, make you feel good about it. Be like, oh, man, that's a hell of a problem to have. You know, one thing I. Maybe you could do. I don't know if you'd be. I don't know if I could do it, but you could probably do it because you're a little bit better at this kind of thing. You just throw. Just do the jiu jitsu.

That's a good tactic right there. When you say, like, what. What you. What you kind of do. Kind of like you're like one of these individuals, one of the rare people who knows how to deal with it, and it's, like, empowering.

The thing that you do that I can't really do is I see you do it, though, is you prioritize an exit.

Yep.

Wish I could do. I just get all scatterbrained, start. Focus on all kinds of different things at the same time. And that's a problem.

Yeah, man.

So, yeah, there you go. Get some.

Next question. My Warrior kids want to know, is Warrior Kid number three in the works?

Yes, Warrior Kid three is in the works. I am on chapter 10.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, I've been on chapter 10 for a couple days. Not because it's taken me a long time to write chapter 10, but I didn't write yesterday or the day before because we were doing multiple podcasts, which is a bummer. But be back on the path today, as a matter of fact.

Well, technically, you're on the path. Your path is just super wide. You know, you had to switch lanes for a little bit. You know, miss. You, miss the exit, but good, you know, boom, you're back on. On in that lane, in. On the same path.

So, yeah, and we're looking at. We're looking at spring publication for that. Once again, getting it out there, really having fun writing this book as the characters develop more complex.

Yeah, complex.

There's some complexities. There's some situations that Mark hasn't really had to deal with yet. The primary being Danny Reinhart. So brace yourself for the impact of Danny Reinhart.

Next question. Your lifestyle is intense and intentional. How do I even get started living like that?

Let's just break this down real easy, okay? Number one, if you want to live, like, more focused in your life, choose to decide that you're gonna actually live like that, do that. Write down whatever it is you want to do.

And then before you go to bed at night, write down some things that you can do tomorrow that are gonna help you move towards the goals that you have. And then set your alarm clock for early in the morning. Wake up and do the things that you wrote down. Stay on that path.

That's it.

Yeah. And do you think that you've just sort of grown accustomed to do. Just dealing with it that way? Because, you know, the more you do it. Yeah. So that's kind of the hard part, right, to get off the ground. See what I'm saying?

To break the gravitational pull of. Of laziness and apathy. Yes.

Yeah. And of course that. But I feel like that in this kind of situation, like when you live how intently. Intense. Sure, but you've kind of always been intense. But that intentional situation, because it's pretty easy. If you know a goal, it's pretty. I don't say easy, but it's simple. Like, to reach that goal is really clear, you know, like, you're gonna have to fight through obstacles, all this other stuff. But if you don't really have an intentional, like, goal, it's hard to just kind of float there and be like, I need to be, I don't know, vaguely successful. It's like, it's. It makes the whole deal harder. And so a lot of times, like a normal person would, they don't have specific goals for every aspect of their life. You know, they'll have one in maybe with their career or something like that, or fitness or something like that, but everything else is just sort of. He. I'm living day by day, doing the best I can kind of thing. But if you can, whether it be write it down or whatever, if you can have it in your brain consciously that or remember essentially, like, what these goals are, it makes it a lot more clear. And then the more you kind of follow those goals, the more it becomes like, habit, like you. That's what I think.

Check.

Next question. How do the finest civilian leaders differ from the finest military leaders? Or in other words, what character traits do military leaders develop. Develop that are more difficult or rare for. For civilian leaders to develop?

They're really. The leadership is leadership. And the good civilian leaders have the same good qualities that the good military leaders have and vice versa. And Leif. Leif was talking about this the other day that, you know, he. He tells people, like, hey, man, I wish you were in the military. Wish you. You would have been good. You know, you would have been a good infantry officer. You'd be good sealed platoon leader. That would have been cool if you were in the teams because you're a good leader in the civilian sector, you're a good leader in the. You'd be a good leader in the military. So there's no. Now, there are strengths and weaknesses for leaders in both of those situations, and there's military leaders. You take 10 military leaders, there's all kinds of strength and weaknesses, different between all, each one of those 10, and there's all kinds. You take 10 civilian leaders, and there's all kinds of different strengths and weaknesses amongst those 10. And if you, if you put them, if you flip them back and forth, it doesn't matter. There's still going to be random strengths and weaknesses. Some guys are good at presenting things, some guys are good at simplifying things, some guys are good at articulating things, and those groups wash out regardless. There's great military leaders that aren't very articulate, but they figure out a way to get done. There's great civilian leaders that aren't very articulate, but they figure out a way. There's great military leaders that are really good at simplifying things. There's great civilian leaders that are good at simplifying people that are not good at that. So they find the correct solution, the people that will complement them as leaders and move forward. But no huge difference. Actually, there's no. There's no difference. There's. There's just. There's good leadership and there's bad leadership. That's it.

Hey, Jocko, love your books and podcasts. When it comes down to the wire and you need to make a quick and tactical decision amidst chaos, how do you keep. Keep your head straight.

This is just. Everyone knows the answer to this by now. Detach. Take a step back. Take a step back off the line. Take a step back from the tactical situation that's going on. Turn your head, look around, see what's going on. Assess it properly, unemotionally, and then make a decision. That's it. You got to learn to detach.

Easy money. Next question.

It's not easy. If it was easy, people would ask me that question 12 times a day.

Simple. Simple, not easy.

It is simple. It is simple, but it's definitely not easy.

No, it's not. And I'll tell you, it's not only not easy, it's almost so hard that you don't even, like, see it happening. It's like you're blind to it.

Most people are blind to it. That's why it's such a huge advantage from a leadership Perspective. If you can be one inch above everyone else, you can see infinitely further than they can, because, let's face it, it. They have a limited. When. When you're. When you're at one level, when you're at 6ft, you can see what you can see. You go to eight feet, you can see things that they can't see. They literally can't see them.

Yeah.

So therefore you know things that they don't know.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden, you seem brilliant because you can literally see things that they literally can't see.

Yeah.

So take a step back, turn your head, look around, Detach from your emotions. Detach from the chaos. That's it.

And the emotions. That's like.

One of the major things that's making you blind, for sure.

Yeah. Whether it's emotions, whether it's anger, whether it's frustration, whether it's panic, whether it's stress, all those emotions will do have the same result on you and your decision making, which is you won't see what's actually happening. Happening.

Yeah.

How do you build a relationship with a boss that consistently loses his temper on a regular basis?

Stay calm. Don't overreact. Let them vent to you, and don't make a big deal out of them losing their temper. To just be. Just be like. Just absorb it and be like, hey, it's all good, boss. Yep. You know, let him venture. And then when they calm down a little bit, you know, just don't even. Don't go, like, man, I'm glad you calmed down. No, just because, you know, say, okay, hey, you know, here's where we're at with this decision. You know, I'm gonna bring this to the troops or whatever. You know, just. Just be calm. And then eventually, hopefully, you get a relationship that's strong enough that you can actually say something to them like, hey, man, you know, I know you. I know things drive you crazy, but, you know, it's. You, You. It's always a lot better when you're just kind of calm, and everyone kind of has a lot of respect for that, you know? But again, that's when you got to be careful with. Because they might just go, what are you talking about? You don't know about respect. They might lose their temper right there.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm just gonna be calm, not overreact. Absorb that kind of thing.

Next question. I'm struggling to be an effective leader because I'm told that I don't have the right tone.

I'm too direct and coarse and I'm not too sure how to fix it. I'd appreciate any hit and all help. Thanks.

If you can record yourself while you're talking to people, like when you're on the phone with someone, just record. Just take out your, your, your cell phone and record and see what you sound like. Because you might be surprised at what you sound like. A lot of times people don't realize what they sound like. You might have to overcompensate for a little while and be like overly pleasant and nice to people, which, which to them might sound like normal, but to you it'll sound like you're being just totally over the top nice. Because you're like, how are you today?

And they're thinking, oh, that's nice. He's actually having a conversation with me. And in your mind you're like, these are just pleasantries. I don't think I should be, you know, it's like, no, just calm down. It's actually great feedback. It's awesome that people have actually told you that you are too direct and too coarse. So what does that mean you're offending people? If you're offending people, do they listen to you? The answer is no. So how do you not offend people? And in your mind you're thinking, hey, this is the way I am. You know, I'm just one of these people that's direct. You don't, you know, I just put the word out and it's like, no, actually all you do is piss people off, offend them, and now they don't listen to you. So don't be that person. Let's try and build relationships. Make that your key goal. Make your goal not to get your point across to them, but to build a relationship with them. Make that your goal and then the rest of it will start to come together, get you moving in the right direction.

Yeah, and sometimes, I'm not saying this person is like this, but sometimes people who are direct and coarse, like, they sort of take pride in it.

Yeah, for sure.

So if you can search your mind and be like, hey, am I taking pride in this? A little bit. Know that like you're you, you're going full speed in the wrong direction there with that. You know, if that's the case, that makes it a lot easier.

Ego. Yep. Affirmative.

Next question. I serve in the Coast Guard and operate in high risk surf operations where not only do I have victims in the water who gave a high risk, who have a high risk of dying, but also my people and myself have a high Probabilities of being injured or killed. I enjoy my job thoroughly and perform on the job, but it's the waiting that's brutal. How do you manage stress? Stress in the off time, so it's not overwhelming.

Look, you got to train hard. You got to be prepared. You got to rehearse, you got to drill worst case scenarios. You got to be in awesome physical condition. You got to do all those things.

You prepare as much as you can. You can't worry about things that you can't control. So the things that you can't control, what can you control? You can be in good physical shape. You can prepare for your equipment, make sure you know how to operate your equipment. You can drill worst case scenarios, so make sure your team understands the procedures that you're supposed to do. So you take control of all the things that you can control. You do those to the nth degree. The things that you can't control, you, you just gotta not worry about them because that's what's. You're actually, you're actually less prepared because you're worrying about other things. You can't sleep because there's a storm coming and you know that there's gonna be some rescue. It's like, hey, you've prepared, you've trained, you've got your equipment already. You've rehearsed with your teammates like that's what we do. And there's some things that I can't control and I'm okay with that. And not to get too crazy, but like worst case scenario. And not to get too like dark. Worst case scenario, what happens? Worst case scenario, what happens? You die. That's the worst case scenario that happens. Happens.

Okay.

Okay, so you've got your insurance taken care of. You got your SGLI set up. You know, you've written letters to your family to tell them what to do and that you've had a great job and that you loved what you're doing, what you're doing and that that's the way it goes. You know, part of, of life is death 100%. Think about that. A hundred percent. So if you can.

Compartmentalize the, the things that you can control and say, okay, these are the things I've got control of. And then you look at the worst case scenario, which is the worst case scenario. I mean, I guess the worst case scenario is like, hey, if you, you could. One of your teammates, you know, dies, that's. That seems to me to always be the worst thing. Or you die. Well, what are you gonna do? So to Prevent my teammate from dying. I'm gonna train, prepare, do everything I can in my power. And one of the things in my power to do is to not be scared of things that I can't control or not worry about things that I can't. Can't control. And then, like, hey, I could die doing this job. That could happen.

What do you do about that? You prepare for it. You. You write your will, you make sure that Your W. Your W2, or page two, I believe it's called your page two in the military service record so that they know what to do with your finances. You fill out your SGLI form, you write a, you write a letter to your friends and family. That's what you do. And then you go out and you do your job. The fear, the fear of death.

That you have in your mind is more likely to cause a problem. It's more. You have more. If you're afraid of death, you're more likely to die than if you say, you know, what if this happens, God forbid, guess what? I'm living the life I want to live, and I'll. I'm going to die doing this. It's like that. If you can get over that hurdle right there, that's a huge thing. And the more comfortable you are with that, that the less chance of you actually dying there is because you won't be scared of it. You won't be hesitant, you won't be paranoid, you won't lose sleep. You'll be like, okay, so, so just truly think about it. Like, man, you're. You're doing an important job. You're going to try and save people's lives. There's inherent risk in that, but it's. What you want to do is what you chose to do. There's. You deal with that. And if you can get through that, that, That's a huge step. Does this mean you want to die? No, it doesn't mean that at all. Doesn't mean that at all. It doesn't mean that at all. But if you're like, you know what? I could die. That's one of the possible outcomes here. It's highly unlikely, but it is a possible outcome if it happens. I've lived the best possible way I can. I've prepared for my family, friends to be taken care of, to understand what happened, happened. And I'm okay with that. That's. That's my recommendation.

Makes sense.

Jocko. I'm a very goal oriented.

I'm very goal oriented. My friends say that they want me to achieve this and that. Yet they still are vaping, partying, being lazy, and overall, don't walk the talk. I want to be an AF Special Tactics Air Force. Air Force Special Tactics Officer. And I don't have time for those distractions. How do I get them on track?

Well, this is a pretty straightforward one for me. What I do is I walk the walk and keep walking, and if these guys want to walk the walk with me, cool. But if they want to vape and party and be lazy, those aren't the kind of guys you want around in with your team anyways, you know? So unless they get on the path that leads to the right place, I mean, you can tell them, hey, man, this isn't gonna get you there. But don't spend a bunch of time trying to pick up and drag people that don't want to drag themselves. Not that you go into an organization like Special Tactics in the Air Force, you don't want to be carrying other people. You don't have to motivate other people. You want people that want to do the job themselves. So don't spend a bunch of time with these people that don't want to get after it.

Makes sense. Jocko. When things start moving fast and feel out of control because you're really getting after it. Work, family, jiu jitsu, and countless other things, how do you slow down it down and get the feeling back of being in control?

What you do in this situation is go harder. You go harder. What you do is. And this is. Think of it like this. Think of it as a sprint. You get in bogged down, there's a bunch of stuff going on. Grab a hold of a bunch of them and sprint and get caught up. That's what you do. You sprint, you get caught up.

I do that kind of right now. And I didn't start doing that, that I really started having to do these little sprints that I do sometimes now, like maybe a year ago, where I just have to just buckle down for three days and do nothing but work. Just that's it. Nothing but work. I'm in the middle of one right now. Like, just what I did over the last few days is like work, work and more work. So it's a sprint, but then you get caught up, you get things under control, and then you can. You can go back to a more sustainable pace. Because you can't sprint forever. You cannot sprint forever factually. Right. That doesn't work.

Yeah.

So if you think you're gonna run alongside a vehicle because you can sprint, that's not going to work. Eventually, the vehicle is going to outpace you and you're going to be left behind. So you have to. You have to choose a race that you can win. But sometimes, just like in a running race, you got a sprint to get ahead. And then once you get ahead, you can, you know, you can fall, you can. You can go back to a sustainable pace. But that's. That's what I do. I go into, like, a little period of mass production. I prefer slow and steady. Absolutely. I prefer just to keep on the disciplined path every day doing what needs to be done. You know that we talked about plant in a tree earlier, like writing a book. Nothing feels better writing a book than when you look up after. After a month of writing and you got 30,000 words because you wrote a thousand words a day. To sit down and write 30,000 words is a gut check. It's a gut check. For me, it is. Because I don't enjoy doing that for long periods of time.

Time.

I don't enjoy sitting there typing because the boards are already pretty much in my head. So it's just a manual labor.

Yeah. Yeah.

But it's not manual labor where you get to move rocks. It's a manual later of pecking it into a keyboard.

Yeah.

That's not fun for me. There's no. There's zero physical benefit. But to look up after a month and say, I got 30,000 words, that's almost a book. Right.

Dig it. Yeah.

So I prefer to do that. But sometimes, because I've saddled myself with many different things going on right now, sometimes I get behind and I have to sprint.

Yeah.

I have to just say, okay, you know what? This is gonna suck for three days, but I'm gonna get back on track. And here we go. So that's what I do when I start feeling like other things are kind of getting the hang of me. Like, hey, man, maybe you have to. For work. You have to sacrifice jiu jitsu for whatever, two days. You're like, yep, I'm not gonna train, but I'm. That's gonna save me a total of five hours in the next couple days. And I can get a lot of work done in five hours. I didn't do jiu jitsu yesterday.

Did I want to? Yes, I did. But I said, okay, I'm gonna sprint right now. I gotta get this other stuff done. And I had to prioritize. So that's. That's what you have to do. And guess what? You know, then you. You get through that sprint now you can go back to your sustainable thing, which is Jiu Jitsu. Every day. Just work out every day, which is, you know, write your. Right every day, do your work every day. So try that. Try just buckling out. Tell your family, tell your Jiu Jitsu instructor. Be like, hey, listen, I'm gonna be gone for three days. I got. I gotta get caught up. So stand by and boom. Tell your family, look, hey, I'm sorry. For the next three days, Days, you're not going to hear much from me because I'm going to stay at work late. I'm going to get a bunch of stuff done and just sprint hard and give them a little reward at the end. Hey, when I get back on Tuesday or when I get back on the Friday, we're going to go out for dinner. We're going, have a good time. But I got to sprint. Got to get caught up. So there you go. That's my procedure.

Good little tactic right there.

It is a good tactic. Oh, a little reward. You like that?

Well, the whole deal, both of them, like, basically to make sure that you communicate with all these people that might be affected by your thing, even like in small ways, like how you say, hey, I'm going to sprint. Right. Right now you'd be. Well, I'm sometimes surprised on how that just, that little thing is so effective. Like, you know, I don't know. I'm gonna go to Jiu Jitsu at, you know, a weird different time, that maybe my family's sort of depending on me. Not in a big way, but just a little bit depending on me being there, right? And I'm gonna go to Jiu Jitsu instead. If I say one week before I do that, if I say, hey, on this day, you know, like, I understand. Hey, usually I'm here. I dig it. But hey, I'm gonna go. This day, this training just kind of means a lot to me. This day and time. Whatever. A week before.

Heads up. They love it. Love.

Night and day. Try to do it the. The hour before versus the week before. Night and day. One situation is like, yes, oh, we got your back. Oh, do it. And the other one is like, yeah, disdain.

Guess what my wife thinks.

What?

She thinks I'm going to Jiu Jitsu every day. And I am. Yeah, she's just like. So I'm sure it's surprising to her, her, if I'm ever like, oh, you know, she'll be like, oh, you didn't leave yet. I'm like, no, I'm actually working. And she'll be like, oh, okay. That's when she realized, I got some.

Work to do, man. But that's a good. That's good to remember it, you know, because it's easy to get caught up in, like, hey, this is me and my sprint. I'm the one gonna have to buckle down, you know, sort of thing. So it kind of maybe gets in the way of you thinking, like, hey, it's for other people too, you know? Know what I'm saying? And then that. That additional one where it's like, yeah, when I'm done, you got another reward. Because then if you communicate, they don't need the reward. I mean, you know, it depends on who it is, but typically it would. It would make sense for them not to need the reward because we're all good.

Reward scenario.

Don't do it too much. They expect it. But that's a good. I think that's good. I'm gonna. I'm gonna put that one into rotation. Next question. Hey, Jocko. A lot of respect for you and your work. I have a question. How do you draw the line between doing things you're uncomfortable with to develop and just torturing yourself unnecessarily?

It's pretty straightforward question, actually, and a pretty straightforward answer. Does it benefit you or not?

Does it benefit you? And there is some level of torture that benefits you because it just keeps you mentally and physically touched, tougher. So there is benefit to. To some level of torture. Right? There's also a level of torture that is not beneficial for you, actually. It takes you backwards and it's going to injure you. It's going to break you down. It's going to break you down mentally, it's going to break you down physically. There's times, like, I've talked about this, like, there's times when I've gotten on a plane where I get on a plane. This is when I know I'm just done training, which is I get on a plane and I. Because normally on a plane, I can, like, really hammer out some work. I can get a podcast. I can read a book. I can just really go hard because there's no. I don't sign up for wi fi on the planes. I just do work. And when I get on a plane and I'm just like, I'm gonna watch him. I'm gonna go into this thing and watch. And I remember the last time I did, I watched Zoolander.

Yeah, man.

Which is a funny movie. But there's no zero positive benefit to my humanity by watching Zoolander. But that's. That's it. So. So I just, like, okay, mentally, just need a damn break, you know? And same thing with physical. Like, there's times where you're physically. Like, there's times. This is an interesting one. When you're training Jiu Jitsu. If I have an injury that's recovering, and let's say normally I do do eight rounds, 10 rounds, when I have an injury that's recovering, I have to have the discipline to say, you know what? I'm only doing four rounds today. Because when you get to the fifth, sixth round, I'm tired, I'm making mistakes. Seventh, eighth round. Now I'm actually going to get injured again. So I want to recover from the injury. So I take some. I take. I have to have the discipline to say no, because the lack of discipline says, I'm just going to train more. I'm just going to train harder. And sometimes you have to take a little bit of a breather. And so if you're doing something that's uncomfortable, but it's making you stronger or smarter or faster. Yeah, that's good. If you're doing something that's uncomfortable and it's not beneficial to you, then that's not smart to do. Except for the occasional gut check, which is, hey, this is just gonna suck. Yeah, this is just gonna suck, and I'm gonna do it anyways. And that's fine.

You're kind of different than people in the concept that you're talking about, I think. Yeah, that's universal, which is good. Like, you know, you talk about, like, going on the plane, right? Even, like, the way you're like, that is no good for humanity. What? You know, I know that was like a joking way of putting it. But the thing is, that is good for you, and it's.

What is Zoolander, Zoolander.

Whatever you watch or something that. That's, like, not work because it's like, you know, compared to a workout. Rob Jones does this a lot. He'll compare it to, like, lifting weights or workout, which is good, I think. Near perfect analogy. The working out thing, it's all. It's essentially just your rest between sets. That's all it is. So if it's like, yeah, you don't get rest between sets. Oh, yeah. See how much weights you can lift then probably not that much. But there's a difference between resting for like, two minutes between your sets and then resting one day.

Yeah, I agree. Sometimes, though, sometimes you can say, oh, I need a rest, but you don't really?

That's what I mean. Yeah.

And so you got to be careful of that.

Yeah.

Sometimes you got to go, oh, this is just torture. So I don't want to do it. But you're really just being mentally weak.

Right.

So you have to be aware. You have to do things that suck sometimes.

Yeah.

So for sure, sure. Some workouts just suck.

Yeah.

And they're awful and they're torture. But they make you stronger, they make you better, and they make you tougher.

Yeah.

So you do them.

Yeah. So perfect. And then if you want to do the workout analogy, right, where you're like, okay, so there's those. Those two dichotomies, if you will. So it's like, okay, rest between sets. Cool. I dig it. You do work and then you rest between sets. That's the whole thing, right. The format. But you're like, okay, if I need two minutes of rest in between my sets for this specific workout, for this specific outcome or results from the workout, then boom, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to rest for two minutes. So there's a difference. In that case, there's a difference between resting two minutes and then resting 15 minutes. You don't need all that rest now. You're just cruising. Now you're just avoiding the next set or putting it off or doing whatever. There's a difference. But on the other side, the more extreme side of the spectrum, the workout can be like, not too many minutes of rest. The workout, the whole workout could last two hours long. No rest between sets. That's the workout. But when the workout's done, you still gotta rest and recover from that workout. So just because you don't have a set amount of sets in, in your work day to day, still doesn't mean you. You need that rest between sets, or at the very least, rest between workouts.

One thing that I got used to in the military, and I see it in companies all the time, like, I could work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, never stop, and never get everything done. Yeah, that's something to think about. So then you have to say to yourself, well, how productive am I going to be and what's important and what's not important? And you got to make sure that you. Yeah, you're right. If you take no rest, you won't be able to function properly. And for me, like, I could write 24 hours a day and not write all the books I'm. I want to write. I could do Jiu Jitsu 24 hours a day and not get as good as I want to get. I could work out 24 hours a day and not get as strong as I want to get. So you have to figure out how to balance all those different items together to figure out, like, okay, what is an acceptable level at each one of these components?

Yeah. And it's gonna take kind of identifying the results that you want that are acceptable to you, you know? So, yeah, like a. What do you call it? You know, like nascar. Right, right. You watch Streets of Thunder? I don't know. The one with Tom Cruise. That is a NASCAR something of thunder. Days of Thunder. Okay. Anyway, he's, like, racing, and he's like, hey, you got to do a pit stop. Everybody got to do a pit stop. But it seems weird, you know, when you're, like, racing and you're like, hey, I'm ahead of everybody. I'm not gonna stop right now, you know, but your wheels are gonna fall off, bro. So you got a pit stop sometimes.

Sure.

Watch some Zoolander, whatever. And then when you're done, you can be way more productive because those tires are new now. They can fly around the track, grip everything breathing. See what I'm saying?

Concur.

So it's part of the game. That's what I'm saying. Next question. How does the introduction you gave to Mike in the equipment room square with extreme ownership? No judgment, just, oh, yeah.

So Mike Sorelli. When Mike Sorelli came into Task Unit, Bruiser, because his other. His other task unit had had some leadership issues, and Mike was sort of the collateral damage in that whole thing. And so they moved him from that task unit, which was Task Unit Charlie, into Task Unit Bruiser. And when he came in, I brought him into the equipment room at Seal Team 3, which is where I would counsel my junior officers, because there was the. There was construction going on at Seal Team 3 at the time, and there was no ceiling, so everyone could hear you in your office. And so I would go into this equipment room and brief guys if. If need be. And I just brought Mike Shirelli in there, and I had had a.

A counseling letter for him to sign, and it said, there's no drama in Task Unit Bruiser. Don't bring any into it. And that's it. It was, like, really straightforward. I'm not to ask him if he still has it, but I don't know why this person thinks that that doesn't square with extreme ownership. As far as I'm concerned, that is. I had a guy that was coming into a unit that had been together for. For seven or eight months, gone through workup and ready, getting ready for deployment. And I just had to take ownership of the fact that I had a guy that was showing up that I didn't know. I did get feedback. I got feedback from multiple people, multiple sources, and my bro source was like, hey, Sorelli, he's fucking good to go. And I was like, okay, cool. So I knew he was good to go, but still, I wanted to set the expectations right for him so that he knew, like, look, like, man, he might think that that was his first task unit he was with, you know, he might think this is the way it is. It's like, no, that's not the way it is. So for me, it was just, hey, we're just. We're just taking ownership. For me, it was, hey, I'm just going to take ownership of this. Make sure he knows what's going on, make sure he understands the expectations. Make sure that we're not going to have any drama in here, because we don't have any drama. There's no drama. Yeah, like, we have problems, we solve them.

We.

We don't backstab each other and tell on each other and stab each other in the back. No, we have a problem, we get together, we solve the problem. That's how it is. And so that's all, you know. No, I don't even think that's a. I'm not even quite sure. I'd have to get more details on this question to figure out why. That didn't seem like the right thing to do. From my perspective, it was. You know, it's great when you. When you have somebody come on board and they go, hey, man, here's the expectations that are going on. Boom.

Yeah, maybe because that was before he did anything. It's not like he did something. And then you were like, hey, you're bringing drama. Don't do that here. It wasn't that.

It was like, hey, man, we don't have drama here.

Right.

Don't bring it in here.

Yeah.

You good with that?

Yeah.

And Mike Sorelli said, roger that, sir.

Yeah, Makes sense.

Yeah, of course.

So.

And you know how much drama you brought in? Zero.

Yeah. Yeah. So in a way, I mean, I don't know, looking at it from the outside side, it seems like that was, you know, the. The essence of extreme ownership. You're.

You.

Some anticipated problems. I'm going to do everything to mitigate, you know, whatever, all these things, and I'm going to go a preempted Problem solving mode. Tactfully. Yeah. You know, in your way, you know, in the locker room or whatever.

Yeah. It wasn't even like. I was like, you better not. It didn't even accuse him or anything, you know, punish. I actually literally said, there's no drama here. Here. Yeah, don't bring any. I didn't say, like, you, we know. You know, I didn't like, point my finger.

No.

I was like, hey, man, hey. Because in my mind I'm thinking, you know what I'm thinking? In my mind, hey, I got a prior enlisted Marine that's going to be in my task unit. I got another body and he's an experienced guy with, you know.

Yeah, I was totally stoked. Yeah, I was totally stoked, man.

Yeah.

So, yeah, no factor. We got time for one more, man.

Sure. How do you stay on the warpath when everything seems to be going wrong? Good question.

You think that's a good question? Well, here's. Here's what I think is strange about that question. It's sort of like the question I just answered about, like, sprinting.

Yeah.

It's easy to. When things are going right, it's easy to stay on the war path. Right. You don't even need to be on the war path when things are going great because everything's happy. There's no war going on. You're at peace. People are, you know, delivering food to you and you're getting a massage. There's no, there's no. You're not like, oh, I need to be on the warpath right now while I'm getting a back massage, while I'm getting food delivered to me. That's not happening. When the actual time that you need to go on the warpath and you need to go harder on the warpath is when things are going wrong. That's when you need to dig deeper. That's when you need to. That's when the whole, like, idea of saying good.

That'S when it happens. When things are actually. When you're getting tested by the world.

That'S when you want to do it. So when you get tested by the world, that's when you get the opportunity to show the world what you're made of.

That's when you get to say, bring it on.

Bring it on. Oh, things are going wrong. Bring it on. I actually look forward to that.

Because this is when I get to exercise my discipline. This is when I get to show the discipline. I get to put the discipline to work. It's the moment I have been waiting for. Because let's face it, if things were easy, then I could just sit around and slack off. Right? That's what could happen when things are easy, when things are going right, that's when you actually can slack off a little bit. Because things going right. I don't recommend it. I recommend actually, when things are going right, you go hard, but when things are going wrong, you need to go even harder.

So if everything's going wrong, it doesn't matter to me, because I'm on the path. I'm gonna stay on the path, on the war path, and I'm gonna get my situation rectified stat.

Get some.

All right, that's like two hours or something right now. So let's.

I don't know. Speaking of the war path.

The path.

Yes.

Yes.

How could we get people to, you know, how could we assist with people being on the war?

Step one, Jiu Jitsu.

That's it.

Maybe that's step. Yeah, man. That's step one straight up. Depends on where you are to begin with. So let's face it anyway. Jiu Jitsu. So you need your. Your GI, right? No need to ask anymore. Get an origin. Originmain.com 100%.

100% made in America.

Yes.

100% good ghee to get the GI to get. And also 100% made in America. Made in America.

From the dirt to the GI top. Straight up. Yeah. Because, let's face it, from the top.

Soil to the GI top.

From the top soil to the top of the gi. Yeah, fully. And for those who care about the aesthetics of the gi, these aesthetics are. How should I say?

Made specifically for Jiu Jitsu, for sure. But two people by jujitsu people. Yes. But they're like. They're cut. You know how you like, they cut, like, for Jiu Jitsu. And they look dope, too, by the way, if you care about that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

You want to make like you don't care, but you care.

No, I. I am and always have been impressed by specifically Dragon weave. Come on.

Yeah.

Do you see a dragon or you're not like a. Like.

I still am impressed with it. You know, when you see. Yeah.

Have you seen the machine that they. That they figure out how to weave that thing?

It's like.

It's in Pete's office, and it's like. It's the. I'll have Pete post a picture of it, but it's like, it looks like a mechanical thing from. From 1898. I bet you it's from 1930. I bet you. The thing is actually from 1930. We'll have to ask Pete what year it is. But that's the actual thing. It's the old school thing that you figure out. You. You program is the word. But it's nothing. There's nothing digital about this. You program what the fabric is going to look like from this machine. It's freaking. It's cool. Anyways. Yeah. So that's the Dragon weave. Also rash guards. Also 100 made in America T shirts. Other things.

Some cool stuff on there.

Yeah, yeah.

Supplements as well.

Yeah, yeah. And supplements for your joints.

A.

For your being. Being as a human.

Yes.

And for your operational capabilities.

Yes.

So joint warfare for your joints. Krill oil for your being.

And joints.

And joints. Discipline for your operational capability.

Lift. Yeah, lift your cognitive and your physical capabilities.

And then of course we got that.

Milk, some additional protein for that one. I had a big milkshake, put dark chocolate in it, by the way.

You said that on the last podcast.

Yeah. But this time again. Yes. And I put dark.

Oh, dark chocolate. How was it?

Outstanding.

With what flavor?

Milk peanut butter chocolate.

Is that your go to currently?

It is. It was the main.

It is for me too.

Yeah. So it's in a rotation and. And it's all based on like how I feel.

I'm gonna tell you, I'm. I probably have had peanut butter six times in a row.

Yeah.

Which it used to be. Not happening. It would be mint six times in a row. And then right now I'm just so down with that. Peanut butter down the foot.

Yeah. On the peanut butter train situation.

Yeah.

But yeah, so the, and these supplements overall, especially the joint ones, like milk, it's easy. It's like a kind of in just me alone with my thoughts, I'm like, this is kind of a glamorous one. The protein. Hell yeah. My muscles. But the joint warfare, they don't get like the glamour.

Here's what, here's what one of my buddies was telling me yesterday. One of my brethren seals was, is using vanilla gorilla. And he's like, I'm. He's like, I'm putting it in everything. Yeah, yeah, everything. He makes coffee.

Boom.

Vanilla.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done that.

Tea. Boom. Yeah. I don't know about tea. But his main thing was coffee.

He's a psycho. Yeah.

He's putting in his coffee.

Yeah.

And he said it's like a sweetener, but obviously it's like not right. It's not bad for you.

Yeah, it is sweetener. Cuz it makes it more Sweet.

He was. He was you. You. You know when you talk to people and they get like, the. The, like little. The little kid look. And he had that. He's like, can I put. I put the vanilla gorilla in there. You hit it with the. I could say he was getting fired up when he said he hit it with the blender stick.

This is the blender stick. The wand one. Yeah. So technically I do the same thing, but I put the coffee in. It's like a lower. An espresso, whatever. In the milk.

Oh.

So it's like a milkshake. Like the same deal. But I'm sure the ratios are different.

Like coffee.

It is. And that's the thing. It is. So if you. If you like, like coffee ice cream, you know, like that kind of stuff where coffee ice cream and, like black coffee, those are two different experiences, for sure. So coffee ice cream, that's a delicious flavor.

When it's like, nice.

Delicious. So it's kind of the same deal with the moke.

Speaking of delicious, strawberry and chocolate. Wore your kid mulk for your children.

I. This. This could get some kind of a. You know, I'm not going to put myself in for a Nobel Peace Prize.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But like, like, hey, we are helping the children of the world in a big way.

Yeah.

With strawberry and chocolate. Warrior Kid Mol. Because there's no other thing that you're just. As a kid. As a kid, you're about that little Snickers bar hitter, right?

Yeah. Or these bad snacks in the snack hitters, Right? Sure, you right. Yes, you're right.

Well, I'll check with Theo Von on that. That one. Because he understands hitters better than me. But if you can give your kid a strawberry or chocolate milk hitter, they're just so stoked. And they're going to get stronger, literally healthier. I told Pete, I said on the Warrior Kid podcast that Warrior Kid Molk will make you stronger. He's like, I don't know if you can legally make that claim. I'm like, why? Well, it's already been said, and it's straight up true. How can you. Wait, how can you not. How can that not be legally made? Because. Does protein rebuild your muscles? Answer. Yes. Does Warrior Kid Molk have protein in it? Yes. I guess we gotta get the kids to jack steel, too.

Or just grow up as a kid healthy. Yeah. You'll get stronger as a kid growing up. You don't have to jack any steel.

So we are technically and legally, legally authorized to say to the children of the World Warrior Kid Molk will make you stronger. If I get the Nobel Prize for that. You get Nobel Prize for helping children around the world?

Yes.

Okay, then I deserve it.

Yeah. All right. There you go.

And not to go too deep into the whole thing about getting stronger. Like, if you make the claim that something's going to make you stronger, I think that is fine. Like legally. Because legally you can't like diagnose it. Was it were the. There. There are certain. There's a list of things you can do. You can't diagnose, you can't.

Oh, treat.

Do you know, do. They're specific kind of. They're more medically based, I think, but I don't know.

Well, the only thing that we really. The only claim that we make which is scientifically proven is the. Is the deadlift capabilities. If you drink Draco white tea is 8,000.

8,000. Yeah.

Which, I mean, obviously no one's gonna argue with that one.

No.

Because that's just facts. So if you want some of the. If you want some Jocko white tea because you need a bigger deadlift, which you probably do.

Yeah.

Then you can get that from Amazon.

Well, the cans from Amazon. The cans from Amazon you can get everywhere.

Everywhere, meaning online.

Just go online, man. Okay, Chuck Oit. It's on the store.

Okay, there you go. On. On what store?

Jocko Store. Jock was store. It's called Jocko Store. And the website is Jocko Storm. It's online.

Did you see the website for origin? Origin?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. For all the Jocko joint warfare Molk, the geese, the Rashka. The origin stuff is all@origin main.com. i did say it, but you know, that's a little reminder. Yeah, but Jocko white tea is everywhere, including jocko store.com. also on jockostore.com is where you can get your shirts when you're representing on the path. See? And that's a big part of being on the path. Actually, that's a good psychological and physical. In my experience.

I don't even know what you're gonna say, but I know what you're gonna say.

What? It helps you stay on the path is what I'm saying.

Well, you're not gonna eat a donut while you're wearing a disc knuckles freedom T shirt.

Exactly Right.

It's physically impossible.

I think so, yes.

You'll be like. You'll. You'll be like the Exorcist. You just won't be able to stop yourself from throwing the donut box in the garbage can.

You Know what's weird? And I'm being serious. It's like now behind me, sa now, like, I can't eat a donut even if I'm by myself. Like, I can't. Like, it's. It's embedded already because of, like, the ethos of the path.

Yeah.

It's like it prevents me physically from eating.

The only donut I could eat is one that is. Is an actual piece of steak cut into a circle with a piece missing from the middle. Yeah, I might do that.

Maybe I might be like, here's my.

Steak donut, just to get some.

Well, here's the thing, though. There's such thing as, like, little protein donuts.

Yeah. But if you look at the ingredients.

I don't know though. What if it was like a Paleo pro? You know, help you. When people make Paleo stuff, it's like kind of.

Okay, why not just shape it like a stick?

Really?

I think you have a point. Putting it into a donuts. Yes. This scenario. That's just because I think that's it.

I think that's the thing. It's like the fact that it's a donut kind of is. That's what kind of creates the little thing in my. In my brain. Anyway, anyway, back to the store. Jocko store. Hoodies on there, shirts on there, hats on there, A lot of cool stuff on there. If you want to represent. If you want to represent in the wild. Jocastore.com grab something keep you on the death core.

Also, okay. We talked about Jacoit, obviously. Also, you want to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. That'll kind of keep you in tune, so to speak. Seems obvious, I guess, but it seems like a small thing. But hey, it's good. Subscribe, stay in tune, stay in touch on itunes, Stitch or Google Play. You know, anywhere where you listen to your podcast. Go ahead, subscribe. Also, the Warrior Kid podcast.

Is the Warrior Kid Podcast better than Jocko Podcast?

I personally don't think so. At the end of the day. What do you say? Net Net. You ever heard that expression, Net Net? My brother says that all the time. Anyway, net Net, I like the Jocko Podcast better. Here's the thing, though. It's not like just cut and dry. You know why?

There's like, legit competition.

Yeah. And here's the thing.

If you were to observe them from a completely unbiased. You probably don't like the Warrior Kid podcast because you're not in it.

I can't freaking rebuttal. My Stuff. Maybe here's the thing.

Maybe buddy yourself.

Here's the. No, no, here's the. Here's the part that kind of. Kind of. What is it like, is like a rebuttal to my own opinion where a kid podcast. Every single one of those was. Was like.

90. Like I would say 85 to 100% impactful. Like every little thing, like I felt like, applied to me where I can. Like whether it be in a.

You're not talking about your daughter.

No.

You're talking about. Applied to you.

To me directly. Some things, yes.

36 years old or whatever you are.

Yeah. Yes, but. And I'm not saying it doesn't apply to my daughter. I'm not saying that. I'm saying it applies to me directly, whether it be me in my own life or me how I'm going to deal with my daughter now or my son or whatever. Like all of the things pretty much. Like that's kind of the. So. So Net. Net. Yeah. Jocko podcast. Sure. I like better maybe because there's kind of more. More thing. I don't know why, but that's my answer. But I will say this. Maybe there.

Maybe. Maybe you might be right, but maybe because there's. So there's not as many Warrior Kid. Maybe. Yeah, maybe I need more. I need more to shift over to for that to be better. I don't know.

Maybe.

Either way, that's all on itunes. That's on. That's a podcast as well that you subscribe to. Also YouTube is where you can YouTube.

Well, there's war. Yeah. Speaking of YouTube, there's the Jocko podcast channel on YouTube. There's Warrior Kid podcast on YouTube which we separated so that your child won't be watching Warrior Kid podcast and then all of a sudden have the Rape of Dan King podcast creep into their zone. Right. So we separated them, but they're both up there. They're both. Both available. And also on the Jocko podcast, that's where Ekko puts up videos of. With. With enhancements to them that make them make the message more impactful, in his opinion.

Well, you know, hopefully we'll say hopefully. How about that?

Yeah. Like I said though, the. The Mikey and the Dragons video, which has moved to the top slot in my opinion, for your videos, which is a bold statement.

Cool.

Yeah, it's a bold statement. People have got tears in their eyes from a two minute video about a kid's book. That's pretty impressive.

Yeah, Well, I do have to say I. I even had tears in my eyes here's. The thing that's. I. For real. And I'm not trying to be like, all humble. I don't think it's necessarily because of me making the video because, like. Well, I don't know. I'm only speaking for myself. Where. Okay, so the. The king died. This is a story within a story. It's a story of a story in a story. So there's like three layers there. But so the idea of the king dying and then the kid being, like, young and having this big responsibility heaped on his shoulder, shoulders, and him being scared for some reason, I don't know, I just get just like all. Whatever about that. Emotions, I don't know, sensitive about that can stuff. So when it's like you explaining it and you say it like you're not being all tough jocko, you know, seems like you're doing it, like, appropriately. See, I'm saying. And then. So it's like that. That's really what kind of affected me. And I think, sure, I laid it out in a way where it's like, kind of delivered in the appropriate way. But is it.

Is it. Oh, I was gonna ask if it was more impactful because you and I know the whole story, but people that don't know the whole story, that didn't have the book yet, were like, oh, my God.

Because you know the whole story. It's like, oh, that's cool. But then people that didn't know the whole story were just like, oh, you know what?

Actually, no, now the thing. Because Jade said the same thing and he didn't read the whole story, and he. And he actually had little tears in his eyes. He's like, yeah, I have tears in my eyes. I don't know why. I like trying to act like it's just so confusing, you know? But meanwhile, he's all, like, being all emotional. I saw what went on.

So that's the. That's the YouTube channel channel. You can subscribe to that. That'd be cool. We'd appreciate it and all that stuff. Plus, you can leave the. The big thing about. If you subscribe to the YouTube channel, you need to comment about Echo, because the only compensation that Echo receives for participation in this podcast is being able to read YouTube comments that say, Echo is so Jack.

Yeah, sure, go.

Go on YouTube. Subscribe and then write, echo is yolked. Echo is jacked. Echo is looking massive. All that kind of stuff. Because that way he'll be happy. I can just pay him with that. That's what he gets paid with.

Yeah, that's. That's the worst idea I've ever heard. It's not that bad, nonetheless. But you do like it, nonetheless.

You pointed it out to me. Yes, he did.

You did.

When you were like. You're like, oh, there's always someone that says, I look jacked.

I never said that. Anyway. Anyway. Psychological warfare, okay. If you don't know what that is, is what it is. It's an album with tracks. It's on itunes and Amazon music and stuff. It's an album with tracks. Jocko saying. Helping you. Us. He's helping us. That's what he's doing. Jocko is helping us through moments of weakness when they arise and they'll rise. You can't sprint forever.

Good point.

And you. You might. Instead of taking appropriate action when you realize you can't sprint forever, sometimes you might want to take a little bit more rest between sets. You don't have to, but sometimes you.

Might want to take too much rest.

You might want to. Yes, exactly. Right.

And you will not ever look jacked if you're taking too much rest between sets. So get Psychological Warfare on itunes. Google Play. Play MP3.

Yes, yes. And you'll get past those. Those moments of weakness, because Jock will just help you through it just by telling you that's. It's like a little spot, you know, when you're slacking.

A little spot. In reference to weightlifting.

Yeah. If that's the analogy.

Right. Because you. Someone's trying to lift and they can't quite get it, and so they help you lift it a little bit, they give you a little spot. But you're referencing weightlifting.

Yes, but in this case, is that.

How you get jacked?

In this case, instead of weight weights, it's your slacker weakness that might come. I'm not saying we're all weak, but sometimes. Some of us. A lot of us are sometimes. Anyway, Jocko's there for you. Boom. Psychological warfare. Also, if your workout's boring, even if it's not boring, get more fitness gear. So I incorporated. Okay. Get it from on it. Right. Onnit.com Jocko fitness gear. Rope battle. Ropes, rings, kettlebells. Of course. To me, if you don't have the kettlebells, I feel like there's like one little element. Big, small. I don't know. Depends on who you are. But there's one little element of life that's missing. That's my opinion. But when I got the rings, that changed my whole workout. So what I do, what I. You know, the. Like, you do A bunch of cool stuff. On rings, I only do a handful of things. Actually not even a handful. Like two, three things. One of the main ones are like, you know, when you. I make them go super low.

Low, like maybe waist, maybe handstand push ups in them.

No, bruh. I'm still a beginner at the rings, but. So I'll hold them in front of me and then I'll do. It's kind of like an ab roller kind of thing.

So it's one arm at a time or both arms?

Both arms. And then sometimes I'll go like wide and. Yeah, narrow, whatever. So I'll do those. I'll do like sets of 10. And you can adjust like how high so how hard and easier it is, whatever.

But a millimeter off the ground, you.

Gotta go full extension. You can. Can get there. I'm gonna get there. Unless between every exercise. Actually, no. Between every set you do a set of 10. That's like the workout. Because it's not super exhausting to do it, you know, so it's like an active rest. It's good, man. I think it'll take your like workout to the next level. To the thing. People say that. Take it to the next level. That doesn't even mean anything.

Well, let me ask you this. Even if it doesn't take it. If it takes to. Will it help you get jacked?

Anyway, let me briefly explain what that means to them. Next level. So like when you do, I don't know, deadlifts or I don't know, shoulder press or something. Like when you're as you see, curls. Oh, big time curls and tricep extension. When you do these things, you're like. Since you're like core or whatever is stronger. And this is just what I'm like, what you feel. When your core is strong, it feels like you have way better balance. You have like way better control of the weight. So you get stronger overall. Boom. Just. Just from rings. Anyway. Yeah, anyway, on it.com, that's, that's where you get all this cool stuff.

If you want to get your mind smarter and tougher and get your brain more jacked.

More jacked. We got some books, Mikey and the Dragons that is out. There are more being printed at this time. I'm printing as many as humanly possible. Order it immediately so that I know and I can get it to you. It's coming. So it's. We've. We've shipped out some. We got some more coming in right now. So. Yeah, if you haven't ordered it ordered it yet? Then order it now. The feedback is awesome right now. And thank you for posting the reviews on Amazon. That's so cool to read and see little pictures of kids reading the book and I'm just super stoked on that book. So thank you you for that and way the warrior kid for the kids that are maybe just a little bit older. That's a book about getting on the path for kids and it's going to help them in every possible element of their life that I can think of right now. It will help them.

I think so too.

It'll make them smarter, it'll make them work harder. It'll make them understand discipline. It'll make them stronger. It'll just help them across the board board. That's way the warrior kid. And then the follow on mission, the follow on book to that is where the warrior kid mark's mission.

The next is the discipline equals field. The discipline equals freedom. Field manual, which is a book about how to get after it.

Yeah, the book.

It's the book about how to get. It is. It is not a throwaway book by any stretch. No, it is. How would you describe it?

Manual.

It's a manual but I mean it's an instrument now. What's the word you used earlier? Aesthetically. Aesthetically, could you possibly. Look. Just look the external part. Just the COVID of the field manual and think maybe I'll do a little extra work today. Yes, that is entirely possible.

Yeah. Fully any.

Because you know what's in it.

Yeah. Get after it Material. Yeah, the. Oh, and I was thinking about this too. Not extensive thought but there's an audio version of this.

True.

Which is cool. Which is good. But it's kind of like one of those things where you kind of like man, I kind of want the physical book. Even if I'm. If I'm more of an audiobook person. I want that physical book because of its aesthetics.

It's heavy. It's heavy. It has black pages. Let's just put it to you that. Let's start with that. Have you ever seen a book with black pages? No, you haven't. Get the field manual right there. If you do want the audio version then it's on itunes, Amazon Music, Google Play. It's not on audible because I wanted you to be able to use it as a alarm.

Sure.

Some of those things, little warnings tracks ready to be played at a moment's notice.

Yeah. And that's the thing to words like if you timed.

If you time. If you set up a time timer Where. When you were going to lunch.

Yeah.

Sugar coated lies plate.

It would keep you in check, man. Perfect example. And because the thing is, like some of these like chapters or whatever, you're gonna identify with more than, let's say the next chapter, you know, especially like if you like donuts or pastries of sorts, you know, the sugar coated lies one, you're gonna be referencing that a little bit more. Right? So it's like. Okay, you know, so you have that option. No, that's good. Put it on the timer. That's good.

Check. Yeah, the. The next book is. Well, I'll talk about two books together. Extreme Ownership and Dichotomy of Leadership. These are two books about the lessons learned on the battlefield. Myself and Leif Babin wrote the books. He was in Task Unit Bruiser as the Charlie platoon commander. And we took the lessons that we learned over there. We brought them back, we started teaching them to the seals that were getting ready to deploy. And we wrote Extreme Ownership. When we got out and started working with companies and saw that all the lessons that we learned transferred to the civilian sector. And then we wrote the Dichotomy of Leadership as a follow on book, which some people are saying is better.

I don't know which one is better, but I do know that they will make you better. They will make you a better leader. So check those out. Extreme Ownership Dichotomy Leadership. Mikey and the Dragons way. The Warrior kid. Mark's mission and discipline equals freedom. Field manual. You can get your brain jacked, which is the word of the day. Echo Echelon Front. That's a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. So if you have a team, if you have a company, if you have a business and you want to get your leadership aligned and you want to get them functioning at the highest level, you can go to echelonfront.com we solve problems through leadership. That's what we do. We got the muster coming in 2019, Chicago and Denver, and we're also doing Sydney. So check out extreme ownership.com for details on that. All of the past musters have sold out. These musters will sell out as well. So. So try and get it in on it early so that you can come. We actually turned people away. We turned a pretty good number of people away from muster 007 in San Francisco. And that. That doesn't feel good. You feel kind of bad. So try and register early for that. And then of course, EF Overwatch, this is where we are taking people from our old community, the spec ops special operations community and the combat aviation community, folks that were leaders and tested as leaders on the battlefield. And now we are taking those tried and tested leaders and placing them into civilian organizations to help the leadership in those companies and teams. You can go to ef overwatch.com if you're either a vet that is looking for your next mission or or you are a company looking for your next high level leader.

And if you have more questions or you have answers for us, we are available on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram and on.

Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to all the military folks out there that are protecting us from evil around the globe. And thanks to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, correctional officers, border patrol and all first responders. Thanks for holding the line 24 hours a day here on the home front and to everyone else out there, thank you for your questions.

But as I said earlier, most of these questions you already know the answers to to.

You already know the right thing to do. You already know what you're supposed to do. You already know how to get on the war path and stay on the war path. It's by getting out there every single.

Day.

And getting after it.

And until next time, this is Ekko and Jocko.