160: From 0 to 50 Flips in 5 Years (While Still Working a Job!) with Stefanie Marshall

This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 160.

I find that I get more out of a house when people talk to me.

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What's going on, everybody?

This is Josh Dworkin, host to the Biggerpockets podcast here with my co host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, buddy?

Not much. I'm in a new office. You like it? Look at this.

It looks very feminine.

It is very feminine. This is my wife's office today. You know why I'm recording in here?

I bet you you've got a really good reason for that.

I do have a good reason.

And you're going to tell me all about it, right?

I'm going to tell you all about it right now. I am recording here because we are in process of recording the audio book for the book on managing rental properties, if people are familiar with. We released last month the book on the book on rental property investing and that one included an audiobook and we never had time to record the audiobook for the book on managing. So we are in the process of doing that right now. So I am in my wife's office so she can be the one recording at least most of that.

There you go.

Yeah, we're gonna look forward to hearing her.

Yes, that's why I have the pretty flowers and butterflies behind me.

Yeah, yeah, you know, nice.

Whatever.

Nice. How's life otherwise?

Life is good. Life is good. I actually just booked a week long vacation in Hawaii, so that's always good. Coming up here in a month and a half or something like that.

So nice. Enjoy it. That, that'll be last week in a. That'll be my long time.

That'll be my last week in Hawaii for a long time. If people don't know I am expecting my first baby. So things are gonna.

Surgeries they can do today.

It's amazing what they can do. My wife has expected a child. So anyway, yeah, so that's what I got going on. What do you got going on? When's your next vacation?

You know, I've actually got one planned. Shockingly for anyone listening, I've actually taken a grand total of I believe two days off in eight years, give or take.

Maybe nine.

But yeah, we're doing a cruise in a few months. Nice. I will say it's not a true vacation though. The, the trip is a trip with my family, my parents, my, my brother and their families. And so, you know, not quite, not quite the quote unquote vacation I want. Although I will be turning 40 years old in a few weeks. That's right. I think I'll be taking a day or two off and this is the year of my 10 year wedding anniversary. So big year. We are looking to do some kind of really cool trip this year. So if anyone has an awesome place they want to let us stay at somewhere. Really?

Yeah. Okay. Anyway, but let's, let's get back to this, man.

All right, all right.

Let's get back on track.

Today's show, if I could transition to our show, is incredible. I think you guys are gonna love it. Whether you're a flipper or. We're talking about flipping today. But whether you're a flipper or a, you know, any other kind of landlord, investor, wholesaler, whatever, man. Today's tips are awesome and it's just a really fun show.

It was.

Yeah, she's, she's a riot. So, yeah, you guys will love it. Yeah. But before we talk about that.

Yes, yes. Let's, let's. You know, I really quickly, I want to read this review. I.

Is it a good one? Because you read a bad one earlier and it was like.

I did read a bad one. They were really mean.

Why would I take advice from losers like that?

Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Well, so here. This was from Swag for sale 22 on January 19th. I typically do not reviews but Biggerpockets has changed my life in a few short months. I've tried numerous podcasts in real estate and none have come close to comparing the expertise is second to none. How Brandon and Josh are so down to earth and real. There's zero hype and it is a tight knit community genuinely dedicated to helping one another. I'm so blessed to have found the site and extremely excited and optimistic about not only my own real estate future, but the future of the BP site and community as well. Thanks so much Brandon, Josh and everyone else. We love you guys. And of course you mentioned you'd first. Of course. Great review. Except for that.

Oh, it was an awesome review. That's awesome. Thank you guys for everyone who left a review for us. We just want to say thank you. You guys really makes our day when we read those. And it does, I don't know, builds up my self esteem a little bit while Josh tears it down.

Yes. So jump on itunes, leave us some reviews if you haven't already. And speaking of reviews, let's get to today's quick Tip tip.

All right. Today's quick tip is a totally self serving one. But I need to ask a favor of every person who has ever purchased a book from Biggerpockets. Whether that's the book on flipping houses. No. And low money down, rental property managing, whatever. If you purchase a book from Biggerpockets, could you do me a huge favor and leave us Amazon review for the book or two book or three book that you've purchased. If you or five if you purchase every book from us, leave us an Amazon review. We could really, really use more reviews in Amazon. That's a quick tip.

Awesome.

And let me know, let me know if you do comment in the show notes and just say you did. We want to go check it out.

Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great. Awesome. Let's get into this thing. Today's guest is Stephanie Marshals. She is a riot.

She's over in Chico, California. And some of you guys who talk about the California market and how crazy it is and unaffordable, I definitely want you to listen up because you'll learn a thing or two about she bought a house.

She bought a house for $30,000 in California.

She did.

Amazing.

It is now you know there's a.

Property made and I don't know, you got to listen. I'm going camping. We're going to find out. We'll go camping.

Yeah, sure.

You'll hear why.

But yeah, so, so she's great. She's done a ton of deals in a very short time and all that while still working. So it's a great story. She's, she's awesome. Really funny. And let's get to it.

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Stephanie Marshall, welcome to the show. It's great to have you here.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

It's good to be here.

How do you.

You can't.

You're welcome. She thanked me.

I just. You're welcomed. I took your. You're welcome. Is that okay?

That's not cool.

Can I steal your welcome? Okay. Too late. Well, I'm going to steal your first question, too.

All right.

Jump.

How you doing, Stephanie?

I'm great.

Good.

Happy to be here. It's a beautiful day today, actually.

How are you?

It's not a beautiful day here.

I'm in California. It's been raining. Like, hallelujah, though, that it's been raining because we haven't had any rain, but now the sun's out today.

Yeah, but you're not from California, are you? You sound like a Southern girl.

No, I'm a cowgirl.

Wow.

Oh, you're like country California.

Yeah, I'm Northern California. It's totally different.

Yeah. What part of Cali are you?

Chico.

Oh, okay. The Chico Rooks. I don't know Chico. You don't know the Chico Rooks?

No. What's that?

It's a soccer team. Oh, from Chico State.

Yeah, you're right. I ride horses.

I don't play.

All right, all right. Well, Stephanie, welcome, welcome, welcome. We want to, you know, stop this small talk and bust into this. So, Brandon, go ahead. What's your. Yeah, what's your first question?

My first question? Well, I already asked her. How you doing? That's a question. So my second question is, how did you. First of all, what do you do? People don't know what you do. What do you do for real estate?

I buy houses, fix them up and sell them.

So you are a. Like, flipper, as they call them?

I would say you could.

I could use that word. Okay, okay. How'd you get into that?

At the time, it was my husband and I, and we had been talking about it and wanting to do it, and we had met a realtor who had sold us our house, and she found a deal, and so we put an offer in on it and we got the house and we kind of fell into all of that, but it actually ended up being just as planned. And we met the contractor that I still work with today. And so it was kind of like we stepped out on a limb and did it, and it turned out and we made money, and so we did it again.

That's cool.

So how long ago was that?

That was in 2011.

2011. How many deals have you done since then?

Probably 50 or 60.

Whoa. Okay, so that's a serious business I work?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Keeps me busy. It's not my only job either, but.

Oh, do you have a day job as well?

Yeah, I'm an accountant.

Really?

Yeah.

I did not know that 50 or.

60 deals while working a full time job. That sounds like a good title of a show right there.

Right?

That's cool. Okay, so maybe I can ask why. Why house flipping? Why did you guys originally, like, why did you say it would be fun to flip a house? Were you watching the flipping shows or had you always wanted to do it or what presented you that option?

I'd been around it, you know, with some of my family members and the things that they have experienced and they had done it. And it was just. Yeah, I probably watched a lot of HGTV and was like, well, why not? I could try it.

I think just knowing what I know now, I probably would have ran the other direction because a lot of stuff comes along. But when you go into it in Such a naive place. And you just think that everything's going to be okay when it turns out okay. And you just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

I really just learned what I learned through experience. I didn't read any of your all books or none of that.

I'm offended. I'm offended.

You're saying the key to get started is to pretend like there's rainbows and unicorns.

Right? I totally live in this bubble. Don't pop my bubble. My bubble has been popped. And I have lost a lot of money. So not that I haven't learned anything, but I definitely probably didn't know as much as I should know going into it. And I think what saved us is we had a contractor who had been flipping houses, and he knew what he was doing.

That definitely helps a lot.

How did you guys come across that guy? Because you said you've kept this contractor for 50 or 60 deals. That's kind of unheard of. I don't think I know too many people who could say the same thing. What was it about this guy? Was this like, you were naive? Were you just lucky as hell that you found the guy and.

Okay, no, you go ahead. You finish your question.

I was going to say. Oh.

I like her. The final part of the question is this.

No, I'm just kidding.

All right.

The final part of the question is this. What is it about that guy that is so awesome that has allowed you to keep him over these deals? So let's hear all three answers.

I forgot everything you just said. Just kidding.

He comes from this place of. He is very budget conscious. And to me, that's what I'm good at. Like, I get the numbers, I get the details of what everything needs to cost. I think that that was my strength going in being an accountant and knowing the details of everything. I knew how to make a spreadsheet really good, and that was important part of it. But he understood how much stuff costs, and he would make decisions based on those costs that he knew, hey, if she's not making money, I'm not making money. And so for me, for him to overcharge me and to do things like that wasn't in his best interest. And so for us, it just became this place where we totally trust each other in everything that we do. And, you know, now we're to this place where he goes and looks at houses and, you know, and he tells me, and then I write up the kind of the budget scenario on it, all of those kinds of things. So for me, we both were on the same page in terms of morals and values and what was important to us. And we've been through some hard times, and it hasn't been easy, but through it all, we stuck together and completely trust each other, and I think that's hard to find. I did try to go find other contractors, and it didn't work out because it's just we weren't on the same path. We were on the same page and didn't have the same things that were important to both of us.

Sure.

Do you guys partner together on stuff ever, or is it purely you hire him for a fee to do the job?

We've done maybe like three together where he's found them, but that was quite a few years ago. But right now we just. I hire him and we. I pay him what he bills me. And that's kind of how we do it now. But not that we haven't done that in the past, and not that I'm opposed to that in the future. It's just. That's what kind of works for us right now.

Sure. Right on, Right on. So in there, you talked about these hard times. Were those hard times for you, specifically in the business? You said we. So I don't know if the hard times were you and he were having issue or were they, you know, the business was kind of having or the side business or whatever you want to call it. Right. Your real estate business was having tough times.

You know, I got to this place where my husband at the time really wanted to push forward and grow the business. And.

So we tried to bring on another contractor, and that kind of offended my contractor, and it was like all this tug of war of what we do, and it kind of all blew up in our face, and we made some bad decisions and, you know, weren't mindful of what we were buying. And, you know, you think that if you do good on every deal, that you're going to do good on every deal, and it's not how it happens. And so I really, in the past six, eight months, have kind of stepped back and made some different paths and different priorities and made it something that is doable and attainable and balanced and what works for me, which, you know, not everything always has to be bigger and better sometimes that's not always true.

Yeah. Yeah. Can you. Can you talk about some of the deals that did go wrong? I mean, what. What actually beyond. Beyond, you know, kind of the.

So sorry, you're on the Bigger Pockets podcast.

No, come on, we gotta. I mean, you Gotta you, you open the door. So we gotta hear it. So tell us like, that's Walk on through.

Come on, boys, let's walk through it. Make me relive it.

Well, you know we're going to make you relive it so the thousands and tens of thousands of people who are listening don't have to.

Hundreds of thousands. Million Millions.

Billions.

Okay. Well, you know, I had kind of created this, this market that where I bought properties where I had the biggest pool of buyers. That was always my direction. And we went into and purchased a property where we paid 450,000 for the property, which is not even where I like to be on the resale. And that's just not the market I'm in. It doesn't work for me. And so we purchased this property and did our normal flip stuff to it. Not what I think there wasn't enough room to make it what it needed to be to be a $600,000 house. So there was definitely some budget lacking to make it what it needed to be on the other end. And we ended up losing over $100,000 on that house.

Oh, wow. So it was like an analysis issue at the end of the day.

Basically, I felt like the ball was rolling too fast and it got too big to stop where, you know, somebody was bringing me a deal. And if you're not really looking at it, looking at the comps, looking at the numbers, being real sure that you can make money on it. I mean, I think that you can make money in those areas, but you got to be real sure about what you want it to look like on the other end and what the comps look like and be realistic. And when you get into those high price ranges, you can have really large price reductions happen to make it sell. And that's what ended up happening. And you know, that's a big wake up call when you realize, okay, well, I'm not invincible.

And 5% at 500,000 or 600,000 is a lot bigger than 500,000 at 100 grand, right?

It's the numbers grow and then holding costs and all of that increase. And so I just. That one hurt for sure.

Yeah.

100 grand.

That's my dad. When I started this, my dad told me, you know, Stephanie, your first loss will be your smallest loss. And I was like, what you talk about, dad, whatever. And I remember the first time, I don't know how many deals we did, but. But I did all the second. I get my HUD statement, I put it in QuickBooks and it's my little yay me time because my brain is crazy, but I go through the whole balance sheet and make sure and see where I'm going to end up. And it was negative $430 or something and 28 cents. And I just had about a freak out moment and I was like, I lost $400. Oh my God, that is awful. And then, you know, then to however many years later to lose what we lost on that other one, it was like he was right.

Yeah, yeah.

The worst I ever did. I lost 10 grand on a flip. And I've told that story a number of times, like on the bigger pockets webinars that we do once a week. I tell you how to make her feel bad. No, no, no, no.

That's my goal.

Yeah, I'm sure she's made a lot more than me on my flips, but so. Well, my point was like my, the reason that I lost money was sounds like the exact same reason you did. I mean, like, I, I try. I mean, maybe not you can correct me, but I mean, I found a house that it was more expensive than I typically had ever done. I mean, my typical flips are, you know, usually I sell them for around 100,000. Now we're in a very different market than you are, but I usually sell them around 100. And this one, I was listed at 170. So it was almost twice of property. At the end of the day, it didn't sell for 170. I just kept reducing my price and held it for a solid year to sell the thing. And at the end of the day, we ended up losing. I think, Yeah, I said 10 grand on it, but we sold it for 120 at the end of the day.

I want to ask you guys both a question on that line of talking there. Yeah, you got that. The price reductions, it's something that in a not so hot market, in a flat market, in a turning market, you tend to see that obviously a lot more. So if you're kind of falsely predicting where your numbers are going to be or if the market turns, I mean, lots of factors could come into play. You're going to get in trouble. So now the thinking is you don't want to chase the price down because if you chase it, you know, hey, I'm only going to drop it this, this bit and you do that, but it's not enough. And so where's the line? I don't think we've actually asked this question on the show. So I'm just curious what both of you guys think, where's the line in doing a price reduction between, hey, I'm going to try and get as little as I can, drop it by as little as I can to ensure I can eke out the maximum profit versus I'm going to drop it to a price where I know this thing is low enough to sell. Guarantee me maybe minimum profits, but at least I'm not going to chase it down and keep following it for month to month to month.

Want me to go?

You go.

You take it.

Okay. I have different philosophies on that and have learned a lot of different.

Scenarios with that particular question. Currently.

I check out my comps like nobody's business. I go around and I drive, and I want to see what the competition is. I want to price my homes right, and I want to know every single number before I go and price that home so that when I do price it, my price per square foot is at or below worse comp. Does that make sense? So that when they go and they look at mine, they go, hmm, that's a much better deal. And I'm still making money at that number, but my house isn't sitting. So that's where I'm at right now. And that's what I've learned to be very diligent in, where my price per square foot is and exactly what my comps look like. And very current comps. You know, comps change from the time I purchase to the time that I sell. So I do a complete analysis when I purchase, and then I redo it before I put it on the market to see, hey, maybe I need to drop it another five grand to sell it right away.

Yeah.

How do you account for that, by the way? I mean, let's say in that time, maybe it's one month, two months, three months. Let's say you've dropped 8%, 7%, 10%, and you only had 10, 20% padding in there for profit. So how does a newbie figure out, hey, you know what? I need to put some padding in? How do I protect myself in case the market does turn while I'm in the midst of the flip?

For me, I think at the beginning that there is just always some, like, guaranteed 100% of the time something will go wrong. Like what you're saying. There's just never been a property or a deal that I've done where something hasn't gone wrong. And so in my numbers, there is just what I call extras miscellaneous. I don't know what's going to go wrong. But this money is going to be used up for something, and I can't account for it, whether it be because the price has gone down or because I had extra expenses. But based on how much the property needs in terms of work and whatever that looks like, I increase or decrease that number just to make sure that I'm covering my behind at the back end and make sure that that's taken care of. But I want to answer the rest of your question on the price, Red. I think also I've read a lot of stuff. I've had other strategies where if I don't get an offer in the first week, that we reduce the price to get it back on the hot sheets. I've done that. That's worked sometimes. And I've also just stuck at my price because sometimes in some of the markets that I am in that days on market are just to be expected to be longer. And it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm priced poorly, that I just to be patient.

Patience, yeah. I'm good at that.

To add on to something you said there a minute ago that I liked, you know, you said you want to be slightly below, you know, at. Or below the average, you know, a worse comp. I really like that a lot because what a lot of people do and the mistake that I made on that deal that I lost all that money on is I said, you know what? This house is going to be beautiful. You know, I'm going to have new hardwood floors and granite countertops. It's going to be huge and tons of square footage. So I kept tricking myself into saying, you what? People will pay more for this. People will pay more because they're gonna like, oh, they're gonna love this. They're gonna love. And I kept bumping it higher and higher and higher because I kept thinking they'd pay more and more and more. No, they won't. Like. It didn't. It didn't matter. Mine was the best house in the. I mean, it was the best house in town by far, but that's the problem. It was by far the best house in town. And so then there's just no comps.

No. Right. There's no comps to be able to justify that price. And I don't ever want to be the nicest house on the street or in town.

Yeah, that was. I mean, it was an emotional thing. I just kept putting more into it because I thought, you know, this is just, you know, I already put the hardwood floors, and it's gotta have travertine tile in the kitchen. And I got the travertine in the kitchen. Like, it's gotta have the new cabinets and the new counters and the, you know, your emotion takes over and you just get excited and you want to do what the shows do. What? HGTV shows a, you know, complete $100,000 flip. But that house would have sold if I would have put half the amount into it. Would have sold for the same amount.

But instead you lost $10,000. Yeah.

At least it wasn't 100,000 dol.

Just kidding.

I'm sorry.

I told you it already hurts. I'm, like, wounded. I'm like, oh, I'm so mad into my gaping wound.

I know, I know, I know.

Hey, Stephanie, what markets are you in?

What do you mean by that?

Where do you invest?

Yeah, what do you like, single family homes?

No, they're like location.

Like actual cities.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. Sorry.

Should be.

I take it back. I'm not sorry.

Okay.

Chico. I've done houses in Chico. Red Blood Bluff, Orville, Gridley, Paradise. I've looked at stuff.

Actual cities.

Yeah.

Northern California has cool city names.

I don't know.

All right, so those are, I'm assuming, all around here?

Yeah, those are Butte County, Tehama County.

Okay, so it's all around you. You don't do long distance flipping or anything crazy like that?

I have, but not right now.

Okay. Okay. So, I mean, what are the price ranges? Just so we have an idea of what that looks like, what do you typically buy a property for? What's your, you know, eventual. What do you. Yeah, what do you typically buy it for? What do you want to sell it for? What do you usually put into a deal? Like, what's a typical flip look like for you?

Well, like in Chico, which is primarily my area, resale ranges from, you know, like the average to anywhere from like 225 to 300. When you get over 300, it's a little bit.

You know, people need to be making a little bit more money. So I'm constantly looking at houses that I purchased around 100, 120, 150, if I get out to more rural areas, you know, like, I just bought a house for 30 grand in California.

Yeah, I did not know that. I was gonna say. I never thought that'd be possible in California. No matter. Even like, the worst area, an RV.

And a car on it, and nobody wanted it but me.

You can go.

You can go camping, though, for free.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I did, but I'm pretty Sure. It doesn't move. So I gotta figure that one out.

You don't need an RV to move to be able to camp in it.

I'm just saying it's pretty much in an unfortunate place right now. You're like staring at a fence. So that's not no campus. Well, kids, hop on in. We're staying here.

That sounds. That sounds good. That sounds like a good vacation. All right, that's where I'm coming next vacation. So I'll be right.

Put that.

Put it on airbnb.

You're great in it for you. Because I'm really not sure what kind of stench is in there anyways.

Costs. You know, I've run as little as, like, 40 to 50 total, which would, like, include escrow and commissions and all of that to, you know, maybe 60 to 70 is, you know, more of my total costs. I'm not talking just repairs. I'm talking everything.

Sure.

And then. So what's your. What's your minimum profit you try to shoot for? Do you say, I won't do a deal under this amount?

I. You know, I've kind of changed that. I really.

In the past six months or so, I've. I've gotten rid of my realtor and am selling the houses myself. I don't have my license, but I'm representing everything myself.

Interesting.

Yeah. Saban, that was a personal decision based on my reputation. I really wanted to get to know my buyers. I wanted them to meet me and to see me and to know what we do and how we do it and that we do it. Well. That was important to me. And then so when I went into this and just the accounting background that I had, I didn't go into it, like, knowing all the percentages and all of that. For me, it was, like, always just a flat number. You know, I want to make 15,000, I want to make 20,000, I want to make 30,000, whatever that number is. So I usually don't like to make less than 15 on a property. Have I. Yes. Have I made more than that? Yeah, but that's generally where I draw my minimum at.

Okay, right on. Okay, right on. So let's talk about this. I mean.

You'Re going against the grain here. I mean, you are for sale by owner, ingredients. These properties. It's not something I've heard a lot of investors do. You said you're doing it because, I mean, that's.

I want to save some money.

Okay. All right. So now the question is, you know, most agents will argue, well, you're Actually losing money by not using an agent. And, you know you're going to make more money if you get it on the MLS and you're going to get higher price, so.

On the mls?

Yeah. So how does that work?

I use just like a flat fee.

Okay, how does that work for those people who have never heard of flat fee listings? What does that mean? How does it work?

You basically purchase a listing. You can go online to, you know, MLS listing, the website, and it's like 300 bucks. And I fill out all of the information and all the details. And I wouldn't recommend this for people, people who don't know what they're doing. I've been doing this a long time, and I've seen contracts after contract after contract. I know exactly what needs to be represented. I have an attorney who reviews all of my documents and all of my paperwork, and I've been sued and all of that. So I know how to protect and cover my behind. But.

It'S partially because I wanted a handle on what was going on on the other side of transactions. I find that I get more out of a house when people talk to me and they meet me and they know that I ain't BSing them that I've done a good job. I'll show them every invoice that I've done on the property so that they know the repairs that's been done, and they go, okay, I'll give you full price. And I'm like, well, okay, let's put the deal together. You know, for me, I've just. And I want to have a good reputation. I want to be represented well. I'm not planning on going anywhere, and I want to be able to do this for a long time. And I don't necessarily want people to see my face, but I want them to, you know, I want them to know me and know our business and know that we aren't just, you know, covering up whatever and putting it on the market. You know, I do a good job and I do quality work, and, you know, every. I get inspections, and I just make sure that everything's represented well. So it's important to me to know my buyers and to also get agents to get to know me, because then they'll bring me deals. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. So on the attorney, you spend the 300 bucks on the flat fee. You generally feel like you know and understand these contracts, and then you go and you have an attorney review. What does that cost? The attorney review?

Well, let me back up with the mls. Listing. Then basically the guy puts it on MLS for me, but I filled out all the information. So he basically says I'm not representing anything that you do. He just basically does paperwork for me. But how I fill out my disclosures is what I make sure that's been reviewed by my attorney. And that just was like a one time deal. And however much an attorney costs, 300 bucks an hour or something. But to me that was important because I've gotten in trouble in the past before with filling out disclosures incorrectly, so.

Got it. Okay. And I know, Brandon, you've got a.

Yeah, I'm just wondering why not. Why did, why did you choose not to just become an agent? Like why sell that way?

I'm planning on getting there. I've passed two of my classes and stuff already, but. Okay, you know.

Yeah, I haven't got mine either. Yeah, that's true. And you're the accountant, so you're. Yeah. You're a little busy right now.

No, I, it's my, it is my plan. But also I think with that comes a lot of other responsibilities like being under a broker and all of that that I don't really know if I want to answer to.

Yeah, that's a good point.

I got all that figured out. And for right now what I'm doing is working for me. But.

I don't know, I just, I haven't exactly figured out if I want to be under a broker. I probably may just go get my broker's license and then. And just deal with myself because I don't really like people telling me what to do.

Interesting, interesting, funny, funny. Hay. So, you know, you're an accountant and it sounds like you love what you do in this real estate business, so why not? I mean, it sounds like you've built up quite a real estate business. Why not just stop doing the accounting thing? Or do you also love the accounting thing?

Well, it is. My father and I are partners, so it's my own business. It's not like I work for the man and he tells me what to do, except for my father.

But that's just for me. That's a responsibility that I signed up for long ago. And I gave my dad my word that I would be a partner in this business. And we've really created it to where it is tax season based. So, you know, I go through and I work my butt off, you know, January through April and the rest of the year it's not really, I don't really have to attend to it that much. So I can I do have time to be able to do the real estate stuff, and I get a lot of help during tax season. My competitors know that I'm an accountant, though, and they. They stick it to me during, you know, at the auction, they're like, steph's working, so they know I'm not going to show up. I've had them say that to me. I'm like, ugh. So they know I'm not around, but I got my little people out there.

Okay, so you mentioned auctions. I think that's probably a good transition to talk about. How are you finding deals? Is that how you're getting them? Or do you buy mls or what are you doing for deals today?

I would say my ratio, 80%. I purchase at auction, when I look through, when I go and I do my final review over the year, generally how I get my deals. But I'm constantly looking at what's on mls and I have agents that send me stuff. And I mean, I'm flooded all day long with people sending me houses, so I don't have a shortage of. But I think that's come with, like, the reputation that, like, you know, you show her a house, she'll. And the deal works. She'll buy it. So that's. That's come with the. With. With time of being spent, you know, actually purchasing homes and not backing out all the time.

What kind of auctions are you going to?

Just the local county auctions. Auction.com comes around here and does an auction, like every two weeks. And so they go to the courthouse, and then I go, you know, every. Every day they have something that is going to be at the courthouse steps that I go and purchase.

So, wait, wait, so auction.com actually works with the county? Is that what you're saying? I did not know they did that. Fascinating.

Yeah, well, I don't know if they necessarily work with the county or if they were working with the banks and then they're representing the banks, and then they actually do the auction at the courthouse steps. They used to do it in, like, a different location, like at a casino, but now they do it at the courthouse steps. It's just at a different time.

Okay, interesting.

I liked the casino.

That would be more fun. All right, so when you go to an auction, is this a type also where you have to have all cash by the end of the day? You can't get inside the. I mean, can you get inside the property to look at it ahead of time? How does that all work?

No, I'm not allowed to go in the property.

Okay.

And you didn't just wink to me, so. No, there was no wink there. All right, So, I mean, so that's the danger of auction properties a lot of times is you don't always know what you're getting, especially if it's lived in ahead of time and somebody lives there, you know, that you don't always know what you're getting. How have you mitigated that risk? I mean, that scares me about buying a property. If I buy, I mean, I don't flip a lot of properties. So if the one or two that I flip happen to be, you know, 50% of them happen to be, you know, occupied. Occupied, or have like, you know, I don't know, concrete poured down every surface.

How do you mitigate that?

You know, I've just been doing it long enough that when I go and I look at a property, most of the time, if it's occupied, I have done everything I can in terms of researching that property and what it is and what the value is and have put it in my numbers. Worst case scenario in terms of fix up, you know, like, is the septic going to go bad? Is the H Vac bad? Is the roof bad? You know, like, all of those are in my numbers. And if they end up being okay, then better for me. But I always, you know, when it's occupied and there is that, you know, risk there, I just put it into my numbers to make sure. And then, you know, obviously being able to get those people out is part of the cost as well.

Yeah, I was just gonna ask you that. Do you have to then evict them if they're, if they're still living there? You have to evict them if they don't leave, or how do you get rid of them?

I've had to do both. I do either cash for keys. I've only had to evict maybe two or three people.

And for those who don't know what cash for keys is, can you explain that? Because I love cash for keys. I mean, not receiving it, but I like, there you go. I love it. A lot of people get really angry with that. I'm trying to explain it to an older guy one time, like, who's like a, you know, he's a landlord for 50 years.

Yeah.

He thought I was ridiculous for giving bad tenants money to leave. He's like, no, you take them to court. And I'm like, yeah, but they damage your property. Like, doesn't matter. It's just the principle. I'm like, this is not principal. It's money.

But you know what?

I'm an accountant, so I 1099. So you're gonna pay tax on that money.

I love that.

There you go.

I do. I get their social.

That's really funny. That's awesome.

Hey, do these when you buy them at the auction. They're not like an REO where all the liens are wiped out, right? I mean, you may have to clean up some stuff, right?

Yep. I have a lady that I have a title connection, so I email them and I ask them to get me info on it. And if anything, we kind of have it laid out where she gives me the important information. Make sure the first is going to sale. If there's a second or a third on the property, I know that. If there's any liens against the names or federal or state liens, I know that I've purchased houses with federal income tax liens on them. So I know the ins and outs of what title looks like. And, yeah, there is a lot of risk. We have CHIP housing here. I don't know if you guys know what that is where it's like.

Basically a local housing assistance program. I've had those liens on title before and had to clean those up. I've had child support liens. I've had all kinds of stuff.

Are you doing the research on this stuff before you go to the auction?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

You're seeing the list of the properties. You're doing research on the handful that you think you might be interested in. And then you go to the auction. How much time in advance do you actually get these lists?

I print out our program is that every Thursday. We print out for the next week. And then if there's stuff that's going Monday, I look at it over the weekend. If there's stuff, you know, and constantly stuff is getting postponed or canceled. So I have to look and review it every day, every morning. And then I usually have everything done, like, the day before. If I know for sure that I'm gonna. That it's gonna go to auction and that I'm gonna get to be able to bid on it. I research title. I get my resale numbers done. I've looked at the comps. You know, there's a lot of time and effort that goes into it. And then, like, nine times out of 10, I don't get it, you know, so it's a lot of work. But then I will. You know, it's just. And it always goes like this. And what I have found out that if I have too many properties and my guys are busy or whatever, if I stop looking because I'm busy is when I'll miss a deal. So like I've just learned to just never stop looking. Does that make sense? Like, I just don't. Because even if my guys are busy, if there's a good deal, I don't want to let it go. So I just am always is just a part of my daily routine.

And I think that's key right there. You know, we talked a couple weeks ago or a while back about with Hal Elrod from who wrote the Miracle Morning and he's all about like this idea of processes and like just follow your process. If you just stick to that process, the results will take care of themselves. That's kind of what you're saying is just, you know, you have that daily routine. Just do it. If you stop that. I mean like a lot of people get into real estate investing and I'm totally guilty of this in like a reactive mode. Right? Like, or, you know, it's almost like I don't. A lot of times I don't have a process. It's just like, okay, I'm gonna buy a house now and then I'll do the work and I'll go out and do it and I'll get all. And I'll buy a property, then I'm done and then I rehab it for a while and like it's not a process. I'm just acting reactively to whatever is coming at me at the time. Right. Like.

Right.

I don't know. So I love the idea of just having that process, that thing that you work forward now I want to go back onto the leans a little bit and dig in a little bit more if we could because we've never really dug in deep on this topic and because buying it auctions are it seemingly, seemingly a more and more important way to find properties. I mean, can you kind of give us a. A. I don't even want to say like a really dumbed down cookie on the lower shelf kind of like definition of what is a lean. I mean, why is that important? Why do we want to make sure.

To have a cookie on the bottom shelf?

Well, you know, like I take the cookies and put them on the bottom shelf. You ever heard that phrase?

So I can have it all the time.

You can have them. Yeah.

Easy to eat.

Exactly. Right? Yeah, you got that. Because I. I don't need them on the bottom shelf because I'm so apparently down for me. Yeah, I need a dumb down and put them on the lower shelf for Josh. So how does a lean work.

The short bus?

Yeah. Okay, good.

Yeah.

How does a lien work and why is that? Why do you have to be careful of that when you're investing in real estate?

Well, for me it depends on what position it is and what type of lien. If like today I'm bidding on a property tomorrow and it has a lien agreement with the city and it was like for $4,000, but it was in third position and the first is going to sale, so I'm not really sure if I'm putting on the low shelf with the cookies.

Okay. But the first is going to sail and if the first is going to sale, if there's a second or a third, which are like, they're lesser importance in terms of liens. And I guess if I'm going to make it, I'm like really bad at making things not complicated because in my mind I like complicated things.

So if the first is going to sale, then it's going to wipe out the second and the third and you are no longer responsible for that. So if a lien is attached to a second or third deed of trust, then they're no longer, you're no longer going to be responsible to pay them. If it's a federal tax lien or a state tax lien, those are big deals and you do have a responsibility to pay them for a federal tax lien. I think it's. You have the response, they have the right to come and repossess your property. I think for 120 days. Maybe it's 90, 90 or 120 days. So federal tax liens, if you don't know the ins and outs of that, or state tax liens, I would suggest if you have a title search that comes up with them that you go far away from it. I've only done it once and it was, you know, I didn't sleep at night.

Okay.

It scared me.

Leave it to the guys who actually are experts or become an expert.

Right. No, I mean, I, it wasn't as scary as you thought. Basically federal, the IRS will come after a property if it has enough equity. So they'll purchase the property for you. If you've already done rehab to it, they won't give you any of your rehab money back. They'll only purchase it for what you purchased it for and then they'll take your money. But generally they come if there is a lot of equity in the property and I have worked with IRS agents to get them off title, and I sent them Starbucks cards.

Nice.

Is that a big bribe of a government official?

No, it was like, thank you.

So, you know, I just make sure that if you're going into it and you haven't done it before, you need to make sure that you have somebody who understands what a first deed of trust is and what types of second and thirds may be attached to the property and what types of liens. Because some, like contractors, liens, you'll be responsible for. There's just liens that don't get wiped out when it goes into foreclosure. So it's important to know different types are maybe a responsibility, even if you purchase it at a foreclosure.

Yeah. At the end of the day, I was just going to say, I mean, if you don't understand liens, you shouldn't be going to auctions and bidding on properties. I mean, well, you should be going.

To them, but maybe not bidding.

You should go to learn.

Yeah, Go to learn.

Buying an reo, on the other hand.

Yeah. It's a different story.

Everything's been wiped out. Right. So that might be the place to start, versus at the auction. Yeah.

Cool.

I've seen people buy some stuff that they shouldn't have.

Well, that's the biggest way that I think novice investors. Well, there's lots of ways to screw up, but they see something, oh, it's at auction, and nobody's, I'm going to bid on this. Nobody's bidding on that. I don't know. They get in, they think it's a steal. The numbers work out, but there's like all these back liens. And, you know, that property that costs you 20, 30, 50, 100 grand is going to actually cost you 300, 500 grand at the end of the day, whatever it is.

Right.

You got to watch yourself.

I just had one that I guess in Butte, was it. Yeah, it was in Butte county where the guy had been growing marijuana, and they had put a lien against the property, or like a jacket, some kind of judgment. It was a judgment against the property. And I hadn't seen it before, but it was. There was no number attached to it, but the fine for what he was responsible for was like 10 to $15,000. And it was. There was nowhere to find it on title, but I had to go down to the county and figure out what the number was. And then I was like, no, I'm not gonna buy it. But I mean, stuff like, yeah, it was. I hadn't seen that before. That just happened like a month, a half and though.

Okay, okay. So, yeah, I mean like, what's kind of interesting about real estate, right? And I think you'd probably agree this, it changes all the time. You're always constantly learning, you're trying to figure out new things and I mean, that's kind of our job as a real estate investor, to solve those problems and figure it out. So it's one of the reasons I love real estate.

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Let me shift a little bit over to buying the properties. If you have to come with all cash, do you just have millions of dollars in the bank? You, you know, or.

How do you. How are you financing deals? Yeah, you got this. How do you finance deals?

I have private financing.

Okay, what does that mean for people who don't know? You don't have to go with their name.

I have somebody who has millions of dollars in the bank.

Oh, there you go.

To me. And they charge me interest.

Okay. That, that is the best definition of private investing I've heard. That's great, right? Yeah. Okay, so why would they, why would they like you money on a deal? Like, why not just go buy their own deal?

Because that would be a lot of work for them.

Okay, so they want to be on.

The people with lots of money are lazy is what you're saying, right?

Exactly. What I do takes a lot of time.

No, we have built a relationship and trust me, and I think he makes, you know, my investor makes a lot of money off of me. So it's a good deal for him. They're in different stages of life, I think, where, you know, they've worked hard to earn their money and now it would be nice to kind of more have passive income. So I've proven to be something.

Not risky for him. When I have a deal out, if something goes wrong or something doesn't happen, I have enough money to be able to cover whatever I need to cover. So there's just never been a shortfall and there's just been a relationship built on trust. And there's just never been a time that they haven't gotten paid.

That's key right there.

Yeah, yeah.

Even if I lost money, they got paid.

So there you go. There you go. Awesome. All right, let's shift this thing a little bit.

You are somebody of the female persuasion and as such, yes, yes. There you go. All right. No, I think this is something that comes up a lot amongst the team here. And we always. We've got. We put out content and say, hey, is there something here that we need to shift in order to kind of think about the female perspective necessarily. Let's just kind of go to the.

Beginning, because me and Josh are dudes.

You are, like, treading so lightly with this.

I know he is.

I tread lightly on everything. Ah, I got this. Come on. Here's a question for all the girls.

As a female investor, I mean, do you ever feel discriminated against? Have you ever had situations where people have treated you differently? Do you have any special challenges that you've dealt with? All the female investors know have said yes. So, you know, I want to just ask you.

Hmm. I don't know. I'm a pretty strong, independent woman, and can I handle most situations? Well, I think I haven't. You know, the people. When I went into. Was my husband and I. And so maybe that. And now he's no longer a part of the business, but when I went into it, he was there. So maybe I didn't feel that as much as maybe other people do. And now I'm in it and they know me and they respect me in terms of my competition, you know, where we give each other deals and things like that. So I don't. I kind of feel part of the bunch now. I don't feel like an outsider there. You know, if somebody was judging me or making me feel less of it, I wasn't aware of it. Maybe that's just me being naive to it. But I like to pretend like everybody likes me.

Go back to the rainbows and unicorns thing.

Huh.

My bubble's pretty good. You should try it.

Well, there's a thread in the. I like the bubble. I like the bubble.

It did, right?

There's a whole pop.

Your bubble.

Thanks. Appreciate that. There is a thread in the BiggerPockets forums going on right now, and people can go and look at it. We'll link to it. The show notes biggerpockets.com show160. But it is called. Called, you know, you're a female investor when. And then there's a lot of different people just been chiming in, like, a lot of female investors saying, I mean, just like comical yet sad things. And I'm glad you haven't experienced a lot of that. And I hope that we're getting better. And it might. I mean, this. Maybe this sounds terrible, but it might just be the Fact that you're in California and they're a little more progressive than, you know, maybe I'm not going to name others, but.

Maybe that's why. But like, I mean, they're saying things. They're saying things like, you know, kind of you go to a car mechanic and like, my wife won't call car mechanics because they'll charge her twice what they'll charge me. And so like, we just know that.

Okay, I just had something pop into my head.

Oh, into the bubble. Hold on.

Bubble just pops, right?

No, it didn't. I just remembered that maybe there was a time. Okay. I just like to forget about it. I'm also doing a new construction deal. This is my first deal where we bought a thing, plot of land. And this is a whole new, new territory for me. But there was. My contractor was gone. He goes on like a week long hunting trip every year and he was gone. And the guy called me and he's like, hey, Steph, there's gonna be a, you know, a change order that needs to be done. And I'm like, okay. And hung up the phone. And Michael gets back and he's like, what did you do? Like, why didn't you have him send you? Like, he just took advantage of you because you're. And you know, you just, you just sounded like you were all fluffy and fine with it. And it's like $8,000. And why didn't, you know, like, he was mad? Because he felt like he took advantage of me. But like, in reality, I probably should have handled the situation differently and been a little more firm with, you know, because sometimes I just may come across nice and passive and those kinds of things, but not.

You're not.

I'm. I don't come across that way. So that's good.

So just that experience made me realize, okay, well, just because I am a female in this situation doesn't mean that I don't mean business and that you don't just get to skip around what needs to actually take place in terms of protocol. Which he should have given me an actual change order and I should have approved the number and I should have signed it and those kinds of things. So that kind of situation was maybe where I felt a little bit of that. But I'm gonna go back to my.

Good, good. Well, I was gonna say, I don't, I don't. I mean, that may or may not have been also just the fact that you're a female. It could have just been like, it happened. Yeah. I mean, like, guys, I Mean, people do that to me all the time. And I, I, maybe I come across as. You're a girl and I come across as a girl. Maybe that, maybe that's why.

Passive and weak.

Yeah, I am very passive and weak. And. But like, I mean, guys know that. I mean, I don't know, maybe until they realize that I know what I'm doing. Like, a lot of times I've just come in, they're like, yeah, it looks like you're. Your reverse collapse over there is broken. I'm like, actually, that's a, you know, abs fitting on that plumbing, you know, pipe. Oh, oh, he knows what he's doing. And then all of a sudden, it becomes a lot more. They know they can't get away with that crap.

Exactly. I think that I've definitely had that experience. And in the flip world, I like, you can't run anything past me. You just can't. Because I know what I'm talking about. I know what I'm doing. And with this new project, I don't. I'm in just, I'm in different waters. And so it was kind of like, oh, yeah, Stephanie, you got to find fake until you make it. And, you know, make sure that they all know that even if you don't know what you're doing, you know what you're doing kind of thing.

Don't let them talk about reverse collopolators.

Yeah, the reverse collapse.

I will correct them.

All right, so before we get to the fire round, I got a couple more questions just about how you run your business, because that's pretty amazing to be doing that many flips and have done that many without a team. So you must have a team, right? I mean, you work in a full time job. What does your team look like? Do you have a lot of employees or just a couple outsourced people? What's that like?

So within my accounting business, I have two ladies that work for me in addition to my dad and one of the gals, she totally helps me run the house stuff. In terms of paying, I used to do everything myself. In terms of paying all the bills. Now I just make sure that I keep the budget straight and all of that. And she pays all the bills and she does a lot of coordinating for me. She turns on PG&E, she gets insurance covered, you know. You know, she's just like an extension of who I am. And that's, you know, over time I've given her more and more. So within the hub of the administrative stuff, that's what I have and then I have a contractor, and he has any, you know, anywhere from one to two employees, depending on the kind of time of year. Then I have a painting crew. None of these guys are, like, under the. Under the kite group, but we partner, so not in terms of money, but they're just. We have this, like, loyal relationship, and I keep them busy, and they make me a priority. That's just kind of always been our relationship. So then I have a painting crew. I have the guys that I use for all my granite and flooring. I have a plumber, an electrician, a roofer.

An H VAC guy, a hardwood floor guy. I just have all these guys I've been using on all of my houses, and they know exactly what to do and how I like it and what colors and all of those things. Things.

And they're 1099s, not W2s, right?

Correct. Yeah. The only W2 is Terry that works in my office, that she does. So.

So it's just the two of you, really, at the end of the day, internally, correct?

Yeah, internally.

But then, you know, and then I have, like, stager and a cleaner, but there, I just. I call them my team. Like, when I write an email and we have a house, it's like, hey, team, we have this house, and this is the dates, and this is when you're gonna clean and stage and photograph. And this is, you know, so it's just I have a whole system and a whole people of group of core people that I trust. And I don't have to. You know, I used to go through the houses and like, put blue tape everywhere, because they would just screw up everything. And now I don't have to do that because they'll themselves. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's one of the keys to successfully building a, like, a sizable flipping operation is you have that team that knows what they're doing, whether or not they're on staff or whether 1099 contractors, whatever, they just know what you're doing. They like working with you because they know what to expect. They know they're going to get paid. You can really just have that. I mean, it's really kind of e myth, Michael Gerber E myth style, where you just have a fluid machine that just kind of runs itself in a way. Not that you don't do any work, but it's a machine that you just have to maintain the machine that's, you know, how you scale. So I love that.

Yeah.

Cool.

It's good.

Cool.

All right. I am. Josh is Giving me the move on sign. All right, let's move on over to the fire.

It's time for the fire round.

All right, the fire round. These questions come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums, which you should be asking questions and answering questions. And everyone, not you specifically, Stephanie, but everyone listening to the show should be jumping in, in there. If you could just five minutes a day. You'll grow, they'll grow, everyone grows. So biggerpockets.com forums. All right, questions are number one when it comes to flipping. Should you have the property first or the financing first? I love that question.

In my world, you need to have financing first. Okay. I think you need to have it set up. How are you? Because in my world, like, I need to have cash to be able to go to auction and do that. But if you're doing wholesaling stuff, stuff, that's a different story. But I think for flipping financing, you need to have that in order.

Cool.

I like it.

In my opinion, that's what we want.

Fair enough.

You got it.

All right. Any suggestions on how to assemble a team of contractors to help flip homes? How did you put together a great team of contractors?

Oh, honestly, I think it was just ordained for me. I mean, the people that have given me, like Jesus gave me these people.

I mean, it, I.

For me, how people do business and how they treat people and what kind of person you are is nine times out of 10 more important to me than what's being done? You know, like who I am needs to be important and how I react and how I respond is important to me. And I can't have people on my team because who don't share the same goals and values. And when they walk onto my house or onto a property, like they're going to get treated with kindness and respect. And I just, I've kind of really tried to instill that in everybody. So for me, it's about finding like minded people that share the same type of business responsibilities.

I love that. Fair enough.

Good answer.

Well, thanks. Thanks. Yeah.

Number three, what are the first steps I should take to start my own real estate investment company?

Hmm.

That's a very big question.

That's a very broad question. The first step.

Wow, she's mocking me.

I think she was mocking me.

Yeah, that was awesome.

Not at all.

All right, so what should I do first?

Anytime you want to do that, feel free.

Yeah, you can mock me. It's okay, I got this.

I have a little sarcasm in here. Just a little.

That's okay. Just a little. I love how that was a sarcastic statement.

Okay. I'm sarcastic at all.

Totally not. The first steps I would say would be to get to know your market. And if you don't know anything about real estate, find somebody who does. Find a mentor or find a real estate agent who is has access to information that you may not and that may be a good place to start. Just to get to know your market. I think that's the most important thing. I know where every house is on every street and what is next door to it and what it's located by without ever driving driving by that didn't come by by just wishing it did. You know, I spent a lot of time.

Yeah, I love that.

All right, last question. Should you purchase home insurance for your flipping properties?

Yes, you should.

Why?

What type of policy do I need to get?

You want more information? Yeah.

Helpful. I mean I wasn't a. Yes, no question.

It was actually precisely you asked it.

Wow, feisty.

Sorry comes out sometimes.

I. This is something that I have.

Desperately not wanted to spend money on but so you have to. I've had things happen where properties have been damaged and you know, had to rely on the insurance.

I've gone over and over with my insurance agent about what kind of coverage I can get. It's kind of limited. What is out there to be offered for homes that are vacant and you are flipping so in each area and whatever insurance company you.

Use sometimes what is offered is limited. And for me I think the most important thing is that that vandalism is covered and that if you have trucks and tools and trailers on the property that those are covered. That you know, even if your contractor has.

Insurance, make sure that it covers what's on the property while you're rehabbing it. Because I've run into stuff being stolen and it not being covered and then you're paying insurance premiums for something that you know what's like the realistic problems of what could happen? What like stuff gets stolen and people vandalize, you know that's mainly what happens happens to vacant.

Why are people so mean? I know people do.

We just had our trailer, our trailer stolen full of tools like the two days before Christmas.

That sucks.

That kind of popped my bubble.

Yeah. Just to add on the insurance thing, make sure you let your insurance agent know it also it is a vacant property. Sometimes there's different insurances for vacant versus not. It's actually cheaper. At least for me. It's always been cheaper for vacant policy than it is for a live in policy. So it might be Cheaper for you as well. Depends on where you live. All right.

Good tips, good advice.

All right, moving on to the world. Famous.

Famous for.

All right, Famous for. These questions are asked of every single guest. Pretty much. And let's go number one. What is your favorite real estate book? I know you said you didn't read mine at the beginning, probably because it wasn't outdoors. Oh, good.

When I first started, I read the. It's, like, called Flip by Who's It By Rick Bellini and Clay Davis. And for me, that was like, practical steps about how to set up information, how to calculate your repairs. That was an important book for me to kind of get to know what I wanted to do and do it back better.

Cool.

Right on, right on. What about business book? Do you. Do you read business books?

I don't read at all.

Nothing?

No.

I'm just kidding. Just kidding.

For me, when I was a kid, my dad's just been. He's just like my hero. And he is the smartest man I know. I know I'll make you cry tear. And he. When I was like, 12 years old, I was playing the game that Rich Dad, Poor dad, like the Monopoly game. And it's called, you know, you either get stuck in. Yeah. Cash flow. Thank you. You either get stuck in the rat. Rat race, or you, you know, buy property and create cash flow. So, like, when I was 12, I was playing that game.

Nice.

So. And I was like, this is, you know, ridiculous, dad. What are we doing? But he had always just instilled in me just a different way of thinking about.

Money and what to do with it. And so when I actually got older and read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I was like, oh, I get what you were trying to say. But with that, for me also.

I have to always come to this place of what is important to me in terms of balance. I feel like I can get caught up in all of that, but I also can't forget that I have a family and that I need to balance all of that, these things. You know, I want to be a smart, wise, discerning businesswoman, but, like, at the end of the day, like, my splendor is not going to descend with me. You know, like, it's just not so for me to know that I can't take any of it with me and maybe I shouldn't hold onto it so tightly. And not everything in my life is dependent upon, you know, earning an extra dollar that I need to be a good woman and a good businesswoman and make smart decisions and be Wise and make wise choices. And so I think that that book gave me some of that wisdom, but also have to be balanced in all of that.

So to make a long answer short. Rich.

Dad. Yeah, it was a good book.

There we go.

Okay. I'm just making sure we're on the same page. Right? You're talking about all sorts of stuff. I was trying to find the book.

I like that book. It's a good book.

I do, too. It is. It is. All right, fair enough.

Hobbies.

What do you do for fun?

I ride horses.

Oh, what kind of horses?

Quarter horses. I rope and.

Oh.

Hey, wanna know cowgirl?

I'm a cowgirl.

Wanna know a funny story about horses? It's gonna explain a lot to you.

Yeah, tell me about it.

So when I was, like, seven years old, I was at a camp and church camp, and I fell off the horse. It took off running. It stepped on my head.

Shut up.

Yep, totally. I had a helmet on, but it crushed the helmet. Crushed the helmet. And I.

You like fear of, like.

I was afraid of horses for about 15 years. Finally got back on one, and then we went at a different camp and we went. When I was teenager then, and I don't know, maybe 10 years later. Anyway, I went underneath this zip line. They'd like this big jump off a zip line thing. And some person jumped off right when the horses went underneath it, which is a terrible idea. Horse took off again, reared up, went running. I was on the. I didn't fall off, but I was sideways on it. It took me another four years to get back on again. I think I was, like, maybe 20 then, anyway, and now I've ridden one, like, twice since. I'm very afraid of horses now.

Oh, that's unfortunate.

Yeah.

But it explains a lot about, you know, why I. The way I am.

I'm not going to judge you.

Don't judge me.

All right.

So you're into horses. By the way, I was at the National Western Stock show this weekend.

You would have Colorado. I've been there. I used to live in Colorado.

Oh, okay.

I've been there.

Cool.

I love it.

It's a lot of fun. So if you're ever in Colorado when it's happening, folks, and you like horses and cows and.

And buying stuff. There's lots of stuff to buy.

Yeah. Yeah.

There you go.

Okay, so hobbies are horses. What else?

My children. I have two beautiful children, and just being a mama is probably one of the most important things to me.

Fabulous. Love it. Love it. Awesome.

All right, my final question. That day, number four, the famous four. What do you believe sets apart the successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started.

For me, I think it's been just not giving up. You know, I've been hit some hard blows, and I get back up and I keep going, and I learned from it and try not to make the same mistakes, but I just don't give up. I think that tenacity has been in my blood since I was a kid. I work hard at it, and I, you know, I grind at it, and I don't give up.

Nice.

So, like, your theme song for life is like that chumbawamba song. You know, I get knocked down, but I get up again.

No, I really wouldn't say. That would be my.

I think that's a drinking song.

Okay. Drink in the night. Oh, that one.

No, I think it's.

Oh, yeah, you're right. It is. So why is it a drinking song? Well, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Stop and think about it. Okay. Yeah.

All right.

So.

So, Stephanie, I would definitely say that.

Before we let you go, I'll come.

Up with them, though.

Thank you.

Where can people find out more information about you? Where can they connect with you?

Biggerpockets. I'm on Biggerpockets. Stephanie Marshall. We also have a website, the Kite Group. It's.

Up and running, and that was a big deal for me. I just got all of that done. I've been trying to get that done. So the kite group.

The kitegroup.com.

Yeah, it's the kite, and then that's abbreviated grp.com.

Those are the K-I, T, E, G R P dot com.

Yep.

All right, just want to make sure.

We'Ll link to that in the show notes@biggerpockets.com show160. Stephanie, thank you so much. By the way, Stephanie will be there to answer any of your questions on the show notes. So if you want to talk to her about the show, feel free to, too. Stephanie, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on board, and I hope to see you floating by my office. In your office.

Right. Life is good. There's a lot to be thankful for.

There you go.

All right. Thank you so much. You guys have a beautiful day.

Hey, thank you. You too.

All right, take care.

All right, bye.

Bye.

All right, guys, that was Stephanie Marshall. She's awesome, isn't she?

She is awesome. And she's not sarcastic at all.

No, not at all.

No, she's awesome. I learned a lot because, like, you know, I've said this before. I really, my goal for 2016 is to take my, you know, flipping business or at least acquisition of properties up like I want to 10x that this year. And so I don't know if you guys noticed, I picked people's brains a lot lately on what they're doing to find deals and stand out from the competition and how they're scaling their business because that's one of my major goals for this year. So, yeah, that's a podcast just for me.

Yeah, really Interesting.

Great.

Nobody cares.

They care.

Guys, listen. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to interact with Stephanie, ask your questions again, go to the show notes@biggerpockets.com show160. Otherwise, big thanks for everybody for listening. Like we talked about in the beginning, please. We could certainly use some more ratings and reviews on itunes. So please jump in and take a minute or two to do that if you are getting any value at all out of these podcasts. Otherwise. Otherwise, jump on the forums. Jump into the biggerpockets community. We have hundreds of thousands of members, thousands of new posts every day. This community is hopping. This community is like a rabbit. You know, it's amazing. Like, the more I talk to people, the more I realize how really special BiggerPockets is. I mean, it's really rare to find a community where there's so many self serving. Not self serving, self serving, selfless, whoops. Selfless people. I mean, people just jump in and help people because they want to help people because they were there. Once they've experienced it, they want to see new people kind of thrive and do well. And so.

It'S just a wonderful place. And if you haven't spent any time on the community or reading our blog, you really should take some time to do that. Check it out. The podcast is obviously awesome, awesome. But those areas of the site are incredible too. So check it out. That's it. Oh, otherwise really cool shout out. By the way, which I didn't get to mention in the beginning. We had a really cool mention today on NBC. Well, it was the Channel 9 news in Denver NBC affiliate and got a nice 30, 45 seconds talking all about how awesome BiggerPockets is. So that, that was pretty cool. You could check it out on our press page@biggerpockets.com press. That's all I got. Is that short for you?

Is that short for like bench press?

Is that what Exactly.

You go there and there's pictures of Josh without a shirt on horse and.

Banged your head a few times.

I just want to see, like, this page was just you, like, with your shirt up, just benching like eight pounds. It's gonna be awesome.

Yeah. Yeah, there's. There's nothing pleasant about that picture.

It might be there if people go to biggerpockets.com press. I'm not guaranteeing anything, but it might be. It might not also. So check it out. Maybe you'll. Maybe you'll see it and maybe you don't.

All right, guys, get out of here. Check us out next week. We've got more great shows to come. Thanks for listening. I'm Josh Dworkin, signing off.

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Thank you all for listening to the Biggerpockets Real Estate Podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico Content and Ed editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. the content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk, so use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.