183: Achieving Financial Independence Through Rental Properties with Sarah Pritchett

This is the biggerpockets podcast show 183 December.

Within six months, I had three properties and then an offer already in for a fourth one. So it all just kind of pops out of the woodwork as opportunities arise.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from from BiggerPockets.com, your home for real estate investing online.

What's going on, everybody?

This is Josh Dworkin, host to the Bigger Pockets podcast, here with my co host, Brandon Turner.

Come on down. I always wanted to say that.

What's up, man?

Not much.

How are you? Good, good, good. Excited to get to see you in a couple days.

Yeah, we're gonna hang out in Chicago. That'll be fun.

Yeah, we just had a fourth. Hopefully we don't get shot.

Oh, we won't get shot. Yeah, I've heard it's a little scary.

We just had 4th of July yesterday. I know we're recording this or this comes out obviously a week and a half later, but this weekend was fourth of July weekend, which was.

Yeah. How was your fourth? You still have all your fingers.

I still have all my fingers.

I want to say this.

So this is my first fourth of my new house. So my new house is on top of this hill that overlooks my town. So last night, watching fireworks, I sat in my hot tub and overlooked the entire town of Monte Sano shooting off fireworks.

Hello, everybody. It was the Brandon Turner. I was sitting in my hot tub drinking wine and champagne.

No, I was with my mom and dad.

I was with my different fireworks.

I was with my mom and dad. But seriously, like, my mom and dad are visiting right now. Hey, Brandon, the new little girl. Yeah.

Hey. Hey, Brandon.

Yeah?

Could you pass the Grape Poupon?

I just said I've just bought this new house and it's incredible watching the fireworks of, like, people letting off their own fireworks down. It's amazing. So next year everyone's invited. Next week everyone's invited to my house for fireworks.

What time is she.

In? In another quick story. So in typical fashion, so last Saturday night, or two nights before 4th of July, it's a Saturday night, 11:00pm My office manager who answers phone calls is on vacation, so I'm answering phones. And 11:30 at night or 11:00 clock at night, a water heater blows up or not blows up, but, you know, ruptures and leaks water everywhere on a weekend and a holiday. Imagine getting a plumber in Podunk at 11 at night.

And so let me guess, you were fixing it yourself.

I was not. I actually just hired a full time contractor, you know, so, like, I called him up and was like, hey, Joe, you remember how I said middle of the night phone calls never happen? And he just burst out laughing. I'm like, I'm sorry. He took care of it. But anyway, typical, Right?

Good stuff.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Happy Independence Day. Yeah. All right, let's move on.

Oh, shall we?

Shall we?

We shall. All right, guys, why don't we go to today's quick tip?

Today's quick tip is, you know, so we released a book a few months ago called the book on Managing Rental Properties. And alongside it we released the book on managing. Did I just say that? Book on rental property investing and the book on managing rental properties.

Managing, yes.

Rental property, yes. I don't speak a very well. So we released these two books and at the time, we did not release the. What's it called? The audiobook of the book on managing. Well, now, Audible. Yeah, it officially is out now. The Audible version of the book on managing rental properties is now on Audible.

Yes.

So check it out. Go to Amazon and Audible and you'll get there.

Or if you want to get both books, find the package that we offer. You can go to biggerpockets.com rentalbook and the reason that that took so long is because your lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely.

Lovely wife, Heather, she was going to record it, but.

Was going to.

Yes, she was going to record it, but she got a little bit busy with a baby and being pregnant, so I chickened. Chickened out. So I recorded the whole thing. Which, you know, not as good as my wife. It's a shame my wife's got a better voice than I do, but whatever. Yeah, you know, it's still her content mostly. Like, she wrote good two thirds of that book. Yeah.

Awesome.

Because she's a smart one.

She is. She is. She is. All right, well, let's talk quickly about today's guest. She's amazing. Today's show is not a show about how do I go and do a billion deals. Today's show is for those of you folks who are sitting around saying, you know, you guys talk to a lot of people who do a ton of deals. Why don't you talk to more people who are just kind of doing it on the side to build wealth for their Family, financial independence, things like that. And that's what the show's about. She's working a job, she's picked up a bunch of properties, and at the end of the day, she doesn't want to be a full time real estate investor. That's not her purpose. Her purpose is to use real estate as a tool to build wealth while she continues to go ahead and build her life.

Yeah, it's been a year. I mean, she's been doing this one year now and, and she's gotten a bunch of properties achieved, you know, some really cool milestones and you guys are gonna love it. Super relatable, super fun.

Yeah, it's awesome.

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All right, guys, this is show 183 of the BiggerPockets podcast. And you can check out the show notes@biggerpockets.com show 183. And before we get to our guest, Sarah, really quickly, if you are not a subscriber to the show on Stitcher itunes, where else is it? Google Play, you name it, SoundCloud. Go to these places that you want to consume it, and there's a little subscribe button, typically. And hit that subscribe button, add yourself as a subscriber so that you can get all the shows as they come out.

And it helps us out.

And of course, it does help us out and leave us a rating or review if you have a chance. So with that, let's bring on Sarah. Sarah Pritchett. Like we said before, she's doing these great things. She's building this wealth. It's really interesting. Great lady, and I'm very, very excited to have her on the show. And the best part about it, if you wait until the famous four, there's a challenge between Brandon and Sarah, which hopefully we'll all get to see one day. So stay tuned, listen up, and let's bring her in. All right, Sarah, welcome to the show. It's good to have you here.

I'm very excited to be here. Thank you.

Yeah. So you've listened to the Biggerpockets podcast before, correct? You're like a listener, is that correct?

Yes. I've been listening since probably, I don't know, a little over a year and a half.

Okay, cool. So one of the reasons I like having people on the show like your story today, you haven't done hundreds and hundreds of deals, but you set out a goal, and we're going to talk about all this. You set out a goal. You wanted financial freedom. You started listening, started learning, and now you're crushing it, and it's awesome. And so I'm excited to talk with you today and kind of learn your story, because all I know is an overview, so pretty exciting.

Okay. Yeah. Great.

Cool.

Here's a secret to the. To the crowd. Sarah is fascinating.

That's what I hear. Josh has said that before.

Well, you know, as you'll be able to see on our photo of the COVID photo for the podcast, you know, she's rocking the fighter pilot helmet. So let's talk about that really quick. You fly fighter jets? What is it that you do?

No, no. That was a very lucky day. I got a ride in an F16.

Nice.

But I. I got a ride in.

A really crappy taxicab with, you know, vomit next to me once.

Oh, really? So no cash cab or anything? It was just vomit.

Although if I went in an F16, I'd probably puke.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. It's hard not to with the type of. It was just very intense, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm in the Air Force, and I went through ROTC at University of Michigan from Troy, Michigan, not Detroit. So a lot of people, when they hear Troy, they hear Detroit. And I know Josh has hatred of Detroit, but I have hatred of nothing. Okay.

Well, you know, a lot of people know that movie 8 mile. So I grew up on 18 mile, which is a nice suburb of Detroit. And I guess from there I went active duty Air Force and moved to the Destin, Florida area for four years, and now I'm here in Colorado. So it's. It's been a tough go in the Air Force, really, but it's a lot of fun.

Okay, so how did you decide that you wanted to do something differently or you wanted to start buying real estate? I mean, what's. What. How did that transition come about?

Sure, sure. I think it was December 2014. I plugged into Mr. Money Mustache kind of learning personal finance is interesting to me because in 2009 is when I entered the workforce, and that's when a lot of craziness was going on in our economy.

Real quick, for those who don't know, what does that mean, Mr. Money Mustache? I mean, me and Josh know Mr. Money.

What is that?

Okay, so Mr. Money Mustache is a blog, and he's actually from Longmont, Colorado, not too far down the street from where we are now. But Mr. Money Mustache is financial independence, financial freedom blog. So he does a lot of. I think he worked until he was 30, and then he retired, and now he only works because he wants to work. And I thought that was an amazing feat to achieve at 30. And part of the ways that he did that was, you know, saving up. And he talked about real estate a Little bit in his blog as well.

So a lot of it is about just cutting costs.

Yeah, A little frugality it is, yes.

Extreme frugality, I would call it.

Well, I mean, I guess it depends. His is more. Yeah, it's a lifestyle blog. He talks about how, you know, you don't have to get a first class ticket somewhere you can enjoy, it's okay to, you know, slum it a little bit, I guess, enjoy doing your own work and not spending a fortune on things you don't need.

So there you go. There you go. So you discovered this world of financial independence. How did it manifest for you?

Well, when you say manifest in terms of how did I decide that I wanted to pursue it?

Yeah.

Oh, okay. A lot of it is, well, the book Secrets of the Millionaire Mind, when you're kind of learning your financial blueprint. You know, when I was growing up, our family situation changed and suddenly, you know, that idea of it's not always going to be a comfortable lifestyle. You're going to, I don't know, face challenges in your life. The economy will go up and down. I just wanted that security. And I really like that lifestyle of not, you know, even though I'm in the military, you know, waking up really early and all that kind of stuff doesn't seem attractive for the next, you know, at least 20 years. And I like to travel. So, you know, we're going to South Korea in a few weeks. And so I just wanted, I guess, to eventually make a lifestyle where if something bad happened, I'd have a fallback plan. And if I want to travel the world, I can do that.

So I love it. Cool. So let's talk about real estate then. How did you transition into buying real estate?

I transitioned to buying real estate after kind of Learning from again, Mr. Money Mustache, doing a lot of research on his blog. And then, you know, pretty much any real estate question I had that I put into Google would redirect me to bigger pockets. Yeah, so it, yeah, it took me maybe two weeks to plug in immediately. I mean, just straight from what is real estate, how can I get into real estate? To being a member on BiggerPockets blog. And I started, you know, looking, I guess, about every. Just kind of bringing everything in, looking on the forums, reading everything, hopping on your webinars, Brandon, everything.

So that's awesome you came to my webinars, which people can sign up for@biggerpockets.com webinar. We're doing. We're doing one this Wednesday anyway. Yeah, I like that. All right, anyway, so you started learning, started growing, started kind of networking and all that. So how did the first purchase come about?

First purchase came about. When I did well, I felt comfortable. I was starting to analyze properties, realize that, you know, how do I. What makes a good property? And I settled on actually a place I'd been in in Florida, because real estate is a little less competitive there, and here in Denver, it's exploding, and it's hard for even people looking for primary residence. I have a friend who's been looking for a month for a house, and they just get outbid. I mean, by $20,000 plus, you know, cash offers for a house worth, you know, over $300,000, it's nuts out here. So I decided to kind of start down in Florida, where, again, yeah, real estate's a little less competitive. It is a little cheaper. I know the market really well. It's a military area, so I know I'm going to get, you know, renters at least. So I tried to jump in. First deal was an attempt at a short sale, which came back and it didn't end up working out. But we just kind of kept trying to put in some offers with my real estate agent, and eventually we found one. We found our first deal, and it was actually a little less than a year ago.

That's awesome. So a little less than a year ago you started. Now, before we get into that deal, I want to point out a couple quick things I noticed here. First of all, you decided that it was too expensive or too competitive in Denver, so you went somewhere else. Now a lot of our listeners are having that same problem. They live in la, in New York and Seattle and Denver, whatever, and things are too expensive. So a lot of people have a choice of, I can either, you know, not invest or I can try to go elsewhere. And that's a tough decision for people. So what I like is that you, you did invest somewhere else, but you didn't just, you know, go to a map and throw a dart like, you picked somewhere that you had a competitive advantage, like, you knew Florida. And so I just think that I want to commend you on that. I mean, again, you didn't just say, hey, some guy in the podcast said Florida was good, let's go and buy there.

Point of clarification, I don't think she said she knew Florida, like, the whole Florida. That's a pretty big state, Brandon. I bet you it's probably a sub market within Florida, but.

Going for an entire state is probably a bit wide in terms of your farm. So you chose what specific market?

Again, I chose where I lived in Florida. So specifically it was Fort Walton beach area near Eglin Air Force Base.

Right on.

Awesome. And so you picked near Air Force Base because you also have experience with military stuff. So again, it's another one of those competitive advantages. You went somewhere that you knew. I mean, even if people haven't lived in other area, maybe they have family members somewhere else, maybe they have. They travel there a lot, whatever. Like, if you're going to invest out of the area, it's really, really helpful to do what you did. I think that's great.

Exactly. And for those of people, I guess, who aren't particularly priced out of their area, but it is very competitive, you know, once you start networking and getting those connections. I mean, part of that is how I got my two condos here in Colle, Colorado, even though the market is crazy, so.

Oh, cool. So, yeah, we'll definitely get to that. So let's go to that first deal.

Okay. You don't have any more that you wanted to point out, Brandon?

Oh, I think I did. What else was I going to point out? I don't remember. I lost. What'd you want?

Just trying to keep everybody on track. I just wanted to point out how well you interrupted her.

I know. That's what I do. That's what I do. There were two things that I don't remember the second. So whatever, it'll come to me. But let's go to that first deal.

Let's go to that deal. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, my first deal, you know, I was talking about the short sale that ended up falling through. But you know, I. We thought, okay, short sale, we're going to put an offer on something that is worth more and we're just going to take over what's left over on the. On the mortgage, which is an amazing idea. And the cool thing about this is there was an HOA on that particular property and the front of the property needed painting. It looked really, really bad, but the inside of the property looks great. So apparently this property wasn't getting a lot of attention. And I called out the HOA asking, hey, what do you cover? Do you cover the outside, you know, getting all their information and said, yeah, hey, we'll paint it for, you know, that's our duty. And the owners didn't even know that. They didn't know that they could call. And so that was kind of an edge to get in on the short sale. That again, wasn't getting A lot of attention. But after a few months they came back and they said, hey, we actually need a little bit more money to make this deal work. And my numbers didn't work out. So I went looking at a bunch of other properties, putting offers on them. So after moving away from the short sale, we moved into other townhouses in the area and we actually found one just down the street. So again, same area, we knew the rental type stuff, you know, how much is it going to rent for each month, how old is it, all of that. This one didn't particularly have an hoa. Put an offer on it and it was accepted and that all ended up working out. There were some obstacles on it, but, you know, we were determined to get that first rental and, and it eventually worked out. I guess it was good.

So the first rental was a townhouse?

Yes.

Okay, can you give us a little more information about the townhouse? Any numbers, any kind of info to help us out?

Yeah, so the first townhouse that we actually got a deal on, it was for sale for, I think, I don't know, maybe 95 or something. We ended up getting it for 89 closing costs all paid for, which is also good because you save a little of money there versus in a competitive market where, you know, in a competitive market it's really hard to get those clos fees covered. But it was a two bedroom, two and a half bathroom with a fenced in yard. So we knew this would be really attractive because. And it also had a one car garage, which a lot of townhouses in that area don't. And you know, if you get high wind, you know, hurricanes can come into that area or tropical storms. So a lot of people like to have covered, you know, covered parking. A lot of people like fence yards in case they have kids or pets. And the good thing about having two bedroom, two and a half bath is that each bedroom upstairs has its own bathroom and then, you know, the half bath downstairs. So we knew that would be attractive. It cash flows very nicely and you're attracting good tenants as well because, you know, most people at least are employed by the multiple military bases in that area and oftentimes those come with a contract so they have reliable income.

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

That's great.

I was going to ask about the HOA thing. So this property, the townhouse, has an hoa, is that correct?

This one particularly does not.

Okay, okay, okay. Because I know you mentioned that earlier with the other ones you were looking at the hoa, so this one doesn't Would you buy property? I mean, you have condos, so you must buy them with. What's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think. I mean, I. As long as they seem to have the proper reserves, you know, I'll ask around a lot to see. Hey, how is the rest of the property looking? You know, the real estate agent will have a pretty good idea as well. If I contact the HOA and they don't get back to me for a week, then, you know, that might be an issue. But maybe not. But I have no issue investing in places with HOAs. Of course, the two condos here in Colorado, HOAs are very high here, in my opinion. I'm sure they're higher elsewhere, but they are pretty high. You can get fine HOAs for, you know, a little condo that are upwards of $300 a month. But if you can make the cash flow work, then I'm not really concerned about it.

So you just have to factor those numbers into your costs.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. I find it interesting, the whole condo thing. Some people, like Josh are, you know, Josh had really bad experience with condos. Other people have, you know, good luck with them. So, you know, again, everyone's different.

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I was talking to a buddy this weekend who is the president of an hoa, and he's like, hardcore all about, you know, making sure everything is efficient, you know, runs it really well. And, you know, I would buy a condo in an HOA that he's running, running. But then again, I've had other experiences myself, which could be an absolute nightmare. And costs that can just pop up. Hey. Oh, we've decided we're going to put a pool in. Oh, and you're going to incur this large chunk?

Yes, and that's actually happened to me recently. I have two condos in the same area, but I do try to diversify where I buy, even if I'm buying in Florida or wherever. So we had an assessment come due recently, but luckily, I don't know, I see it kind of as a good thing because we switched the people that were managing the hoa, and these people are so much better. They say, here are all the things. They've already started improving the area big time. And even though they increased the HOA fees, we're seeing those results right now. And I mean, my property is still cash flow nicely. So that's why when I buy those condos, I make sure that I'm cash flowing a little bit more. Because the HOA is definitely a variant factor.

Yeah. And the assessments, you know, those can come out of nowhere. So, you know, for somebody who's thinking about condos, you should do what Sarah did, which is, you know, obviously you want to talk to the hoa, but you also want to talk to the homeowners. You want to kind of see what kind of history there has been of assessments. If there's just random assessments every X amount of months or once a year, every two years, it's just something to be aware of. Let's go back to this deal because you said the word we now is we, you. And the agent, is he. Did you have a partner?

Sure. Well, my husband and I. I mean, my husband's a little less involved in it, but yeah, we is typically me and my agent. So, okay, no partnerships yet. Although that might be something. It's not a priority right now. So if something kind of comes across and, you know, maybe I am financially independent to a point where I want to pursue those, then that might happen in the future. So.

Sure, that makes sense.

And this property down in Florida, are you managing that now or is there a management company? How's that working?

Sure. Well, since I just got a lot of these property, I actually have four properties in Florida. They're all townhouses. They just went through a recent inspection. A lot of the handoff. We can hire an actual place company that will handle just the turnover. So they'll go. I mean, they can find you a tenant. They'll do the walkthroughs. They will manage all the before and after walkthrough inspections. They hand it back off to you, and then you just field the calls throughout that time. And luckily, it's a really nice area of Florida. I have tons of friends. They're still living down there. So when we go down and visit them, we do the walkthrough of those properties and make sure that they're still taking good care of them.

So for a company that just does the turnover, what cost are we talking about? I mean, typical property management, 8 to 12%, give or take. What are you paying for that?

Sure. Yeah. So it's eight. I know that's eight to whatever percent for the management per month. And then I know a lot of places will take a half month's rent to a full month's rent for placing tenants. They only charge a half month's rent for everything for that one time, and then you take care of the rest. And so so far, it's been working out nicely. You know, my properties have been, especially since I have just acquired them from other people. There's been an inspection. You know, everything's been in good shape to begin with. It's been working out, but I don't know that it'll do that for the long run. So I may transition to full on property management, but for now it is working out nicely.

Gotcha. So you haven't had repairs or any issues like that, and if they were to come up, then I guess you start to figure out maybe a transition or figure out what you're going to do at that point.

Yes, yes. And you know, at the end they'll definitely say, okay, well these blinds, they weren't on there beforehand and these blinds are all messed up or something. And you know, maybe those tenants had pets and their dogs were on them or something. So yeah, it hasn't been a big deal yet. We've been able to address anything that, I mean, honestly. And I've had little turnover so far. I've had two people turnover in because I've only been doing this for a year so far. So sure. But yeah, it's been working out so far, but we'll see if it will down the road.

That's cool, that's good. Now, are these newer properties that kind of. Or are these older, you know, like what years are these properties typically built in? The townhouses?

Sure, it's a mix. So down in Florida I have two townhouses and they're actually pretty close to each other, practically neighbors. Those were born or born. They were built. They were built in I think the late 80s. And then the other ones are actually about 45 minutes away. That area is very large. So it's on the other side of the military base. And so those are about. That's probably 15 years old or so, maybe 20.

Okay, cool. It's just something for people to consider when you're buying a property. I mean, you can buy them like I tend to buy properties that are like 1900, 1905, 1920. And I mean my newest property is like I think 1970s, but most of them are in the 20s or before. But I live in this local area. I expect that they're going to cost more to fix up and things. But you bought a little bit newer and some people buy only new. I mean only the next five or 10 years. And it's just something to consider when you're buying at a distance. It's sometimes a little better to buy newer like you did, or at least like middle range. Not the 1910 house from 2,000 miles away.

Yes, yes. And I've actually been looking back in Michigan and so with some networking that I've been doing, you know, I'm looking at some duplexes near college towns and those are definitely older houses. So I've learned the questions that I need to ask for older houses, such as, you know, is the electrical updated and, and you know, drywall, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, learning kind of that area as well, you know, the average age of those houses and what's good and bad about them.

So.

Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. Actually, that's a. I'm gonna try to do a webinar on that. On buying old houses. Cause that's something that people deal with. I mean, why not? We should just do a whole, do a whole webinar on that. Anyway, I'll do it sometime. Very cool. Last question I have before we kind of move on to how do you finance them?

Financing. So a lot of them are traditional mortgages. And I've also been utilizing my home equity line credit to help with down payments. And you know, because after a while, you know, I have six properties in one year. So my, my income, for example, like debt to income ratio or whatever, I can't use my rental income on my. When I apply for loans, for example, because they need two years for the most part. So I have to start transitioning to portfolio loans or you know, looking into other means, you know, cash out, refinance on other properties that I own.

Cool, cool. And could you, could you explain a little bit on the home equity line of credit, what does that mean? That I've been utilizing my home equity line of credit.

Sure. What I mean by that is, you know, I obviously. Well, maybe not obviously, but I don't have all this money just laying around to put on.

You're in the military though, and the military gets paid really well. We all know, right? I mean, you guys are rolling in six figure jobs there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, we do. I make a comfortable living. Absolutely. But I'm not going to keep that as, you know, keep that money liquid for the most part.

Sure.

So I don't want to put it in index funds, mutual funds, and then pull it out. I'd rather, you know, utilize, you know, I'd rather leverage money. So that's been very great. And on this end, because as I start cash flowing more, I just pay down the, you know, the HELOC right away or as much as possible. And then when I'm able to move, you know, I can just put it on the HELOC again, if I want to. That isn't always the case, but it's definitely helped accelerate my ability to acquire properties.

Okay, so essentially you have like a line of credit on your personal house that you can use then to buy these other ones. Yeah, I love that strategy. I did the same thing when I was starting my first property, actually. I got a HELOC on it and use that as well. So can I plug? Can I plug, Josh? You let me plug. I got a whole chapter on this only book on investing in real estate with no money down, which you can pick up@biggerpockets.com no money or on Amazon. Whole chapter on HELOC. So.

All right, there you go.

Perfect.

Fabulous. Fabulous. Are you done?

Okay, I'm done plugging. Done plugging. Biggerpockets.com NoMoney.

Oh, and you know, when you have a free chance, take a look at a picture of me. I'm magnificent.

Yeah. Brandon Turner, Take a look. Take a look.

All right, so you've got the four. You got these four townhouses in Florida, and you had mentioned two condos in Colorado. So tell us, did those come in order, like the four Florida, then the.

Two Colorado, or No, actually, it's interesting because when I bought my first townhouse down there, somebody from, I mean, it's just kind of a line of townhouses. Again, no hoa. But there is a guy that kind of connects everybody where, you know, if they want to, I don't know, have barbecues or something. He emails everybody, everybody. So he sent me an email and, you know, I told him I was an investor and he said, oh, great, you know, I have an investment condo there. Then I was looking to or townhouse, and I was looking to sell that maybe in the future. And then he eventually connected me to somebody two or three doors down who wanted to sell his property. So we started off with that townhouse and then eventually, you know, started looking. I think it went Florida first, and then I found the Colorado condo, the first Colorado condo. And then I guess it just kind of waterfalled. So from there I, you know, another Florida deal popped up, and so I bought one, you know, that's 45 minutes away from my very first townhouse there. And then I was contacted by the guy who wanted to sell the townhouse just a few doors down, if this makes sense. Hopefully I'm not being too confusing. Yeah. And so it was kind of interesting because I wasn't sure how many properties I was going to have by the end of December. Within six Months. I had three properties and then an offer already in for a fourth one. So it all just kind of pops out of the woodwork as opportunities arise and you can prepare yourself. And the HELOC has helped me do that.

Right on.

No, that's great. So you've done six deals, you did six deals in your first year once you actually got going. And what's the plan here? I mean, are you trying to get to some number? Are you trying to become a full time investor? What's the long term goal with where you're going?

Sure. Well, my long term plan was financial independence. I wanted to completely replace my current income, but financial independence is, am I making enough to cover my expenses?

I thought, okay, I can do that with seven properties. At least I was able to cash flow a little better with those properties. So I reached financial independence in the sense a little bit earlier. So with those six properties. And I thought, okay, seven properties by summer of 2017 and I'll be good. And I got six by, you know, by May of 2016. And I thought, okay, well maybe if we do 10 by 2017. And you know, now we're about to, you know, have this, hopefully have this duplex in Michigan, so that'll be a few more doors. And so now, you know, I think the, the plan is still financial independence. Acquire those properties as they go about 20, 25 years, think about changing out those properties so we can continue the depreciation and the tax benefits of them to other rentals and maybe even an apartment complex. So I've been looking into that a little bit more. I really like that podcast on breaking into apartment complexes. So maybe that down the line and I have that kind of as a soft 20, 25, but we'll see, maybe it'll be a lot earlier.

So it's a little bit of a slippery slope. Seven became ten. Ten's become significant, complex. Little by little, you get hooked on this thing. Let me ask you about finding the deal. It sounds like everything you're not out there, you're trying to get financial independence. You're trying to create a business that provides you with cash flow. You're not trying to build a business that you have to be active in, like flipping houses or wholesaling. This is more of a passive endeavor some people would call true investing. Are you actively marketing to find these properties? Or it's just like you've got a plan little by little, slow as it goes, and kind of get them as they come. What's the plan?

Sure, it's a Little bit of both. So it started out just connecting with an agent and trying to find out, okay, well, this, this property cash flows nicely. And after a while you start again, you start networking. So I'm connected to wholesalers now, and so wholesalers will come to me and say, hey, I have this property, you want it? And we can work a deal from there. So it gets a little bit easier. I'm not trying. Like you had a 23 year old with 58 deals or something recently, which was insane, because as I'm listening to that, I'm thinking, wow, and I'm about to record this podcast. What do they want to hear from me? But it was just amazing. It was amazing hearing what he does, you know, and maybe someday that will be something that I set my eye on. But currently, you know, being employed full time and I also have, you know, a side job that I do as well, so that is currently not a priority. And so I'm just as, as things come to me, I take advantage of them and I will go looking for opportunities if I'm ready or if, I don't know, they aren't coming to me.

Yeah, makes sense. Just, just to expand on that point there, we had Devin on the show, who was a guy who'd done 50 some deals and 23 years old. And those shows are amazing. And that show was incredible. At the same time, people love to hear stories like yours. Right? It's so much. It's attainable. Right? You're doing what everyone wants to do. I'm going out there, I'm getting financial independence. I have this number, I have a goal set. It's just so real. And this is what I mean. I don't know. I love your story. I think it's fantastic.

I do too. I think a lot of people, a lot of people don't want to be full time investors. A lot of people don't want to be constantly doing their real estate. They want to pick up some properties and find financial independence. I mean, that's their goal. So I think it's awesome as well.

Yeah, good job. All right, so what about the bad things? What's the biggest obstacle you faced in real estate? Has everything been easy for you? Have you had any trouble?

Yeah, there have been a few obstacles and mistakes along the way. So for obstacles, actually. And it was going back to that very first, first deal. We were, you know, put the offer on the place and, you know, everything was looking good. And about three or four days before we were supposed to close, my lender came Back saying, we can't finance this deal. And yeah, it was, it was incredible. I couldn't believe it. And so, you know, it turns out they just didn't get paperwork done in time and they said, well, it'll be, you know, another three weeks or so. And you know, we weren't really open to doing that. And the sellers were kind of, you know, it was either this or possible financial trouble for them. So we were able to, you know, creative financing. We had of course, some of our own cash, but we were able to utilize the HELOC in order to.

The home equity line of credit, utilize the HELOC to pay for the rest of property in cash. And that brought the purchase price down last minute too, which, so it worked out for everybody and it brought the purchase price down because initially they were paying our closing costs. So yeah, and so it was all great. I mean it worked out and you know, so that was one obstacle. And the, you know, another obstacle I'm facing right now is again, because I have been in this game less than two years, my rental income doesn't count as income. So when I want to finance another property, and there's plenty of other ways to get above that, of course, you know, you can, you know, if you own a property outright because you paid for it with your heloc, you can, you know, cash out, refinance, all that kind of stuff. So there are absolutely ways to get around it. And I would talk to anybody who is, who wants to acquire properties quickly is to make sure that you don't take no for an answer. Because I could have called that one person who said no, this is, you know, you have too many properties or whatever, but then you can ask some questions, well, how can I, instead of, hey, I want this, you know, can you give it to me versus how can I get there? So if somebody says no to you, you talk to them and say, this is, this is my specific goal and these are the obstacles I have, but I want to know how I can get there. And if they can't help you, ask who else they know that can help you. So, you know, I've done that before where, you know, you can call 5, 6, 20 people and eventually get to where you need to be.

Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, so true. Can you real quickly explain what you mean by just in case people have never heard of that two year rule about they can't count your income as income? What is that? What do you mean by that?

Sure. So for rental income or really, and I Think this might be for all income and you have to show steady income. So for example, a lot of times when you are applying for a mortgage, they say don't switch jobs because you need that steady income. So for two years they need to average that out for your rental income, for your regular income, whatever. If you're a contractor and you just started a business in the past year, well, they need it for two years on your past tax returns or most people do. So sometimes if you're, you know, portfolio lender or you know, hard money lender that, you know, they of course have more flexibility because they're not going to sell off your loan to somebody who has all these stipulations beforehand. But yeah, so they need to average out all that for it to count. And unfortunately with these six properties, none of them count at the moment.

Yeah. So it can be tough to just qualify for that mortgage. I could be wrong here, but I think that's actually a Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac rule is they won't let you count income like rental income until you've been a landlord two years. Which is a good reason why people are out there thinking I should, you know, I really want to get into real estate. Sometimes go buy a rental property like, because two years from now it's gonna help you out quite a bit. I'm not saying buy a bad one, but you know, use that as a little bit of fire. Like the sooner you get started, the sooner that two years wears off and you can start using your rental income, your cash flow as income to qualify for more mortgages. So there you go.

Exactly.

I've got a question on this, this whole plan, you know, the 6 to the 10 to the, you know, again, the mega apartment complex that you're looking to do. How did you put all this together? I mean, you made a decision on how many properties you wanted to buy. You've clearly decided, I don't want to be an active full time real estate investor, at least for now. How did you get that plan together and how did you get to that first deal? There's so many people who never get to that first deal. You're not very far from that first deal. You're plus in with six properties, which is phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. But help out the listeners who are sitting there saying, but how'd she do it? How'd she do it? How did she put that plan together? Like what, you know, what steps did she take? Where'd she find the agent? You know, what order do I have to do things in what do I do? What would you tell them?

Sure, sure. Well, you know, if you're not going to invest specifically in your area, it's good to get referrals to who you want to work with in real estate agents, you know, it's a lot. I mean, a lot of people might blow you off, for example, if you don't have any properties and you're saying, hey, I'm an out of state investor and I want to buy an investment property, well, you can come to them again saying, this is, you know, I've done my research and this is what I'm seeing about the market. This is what I'm looking for. I see that these properties on Zillow, for example, because, you know, maybe you don't have access to the mls. I see these properties will rent for around this area and cash flow for around this area. That's right up my alleys. I would love to be put on the MLS and showings or whatever. See if these people work with investors, first of all. But if we are talking about just trying to jump into the first deal, I think a lot of times people, you know, they get afraid because, you know, they hear all these horror stories, for example, about. And we've talked about that before, at least you all have on the podcast for evictions and all these, you know, getting this midnight phone call and having to go fix toilets or whatever. But. But my plan came together because I wanted to invest for cash flow. I wanted to eventually be able to walk away from a job if I didn't want to go somewhere or if I didn't want to do something and really just pursue or work because I wanted to work. And so when I found out that real estate could do that for me, I looked at how much cash flow I needed to replace my income and I started going for it. So if you do your research and you are factoring in all those bad things that could happen and it's looking good to you, then it looks like it's a priority for you. I think a lot of people, it's very easy to look at something and say, a lot of work, no thanks. And maybe they're just not passionate enough to break through those molds. But it came together for me because I wanted that freedom and I was able to figure out the numbers for the cash flow and eventually collect the properties to make that happen.

I love it. All right, my last question before we go to the fire round. How many hours a week do you work on your real estate?

You know, that's something I've been trying to figure out lately. And I would say if I am actively searching, if we're counting that. Actively searching for deals, of course, per week, I'd say, I don't know, maybe five to five. Five hours. Ish. And I don't know the. That's typical because it's not because I have to spend those five hours, it's because I'm curious. So I'll hop on Zillow and I'll just, you know, I'll surf it. I'll surf it in my free time and I'll see. Oh, look at this. Okay, well, you know, keeping up on the market or when I'm. Especially now since I'm trying to break into a new market. I'm doing a lot of studying. But again, you know, you say work on real estate or how much time do I really spend on real estate? You know, I don't know, a half hour can go by and I feel like, oh right, I've just hopped on the computer or even more because I'm just curious. And I think that's. It's good. If I'm talking, if you're talking about how many times or how many hours even a month that I'm answering calls from my tenants. I don't know, maybe an hour a month, if that where I'm calling my team down in Florida saying, hey, they called in, they need this done. When can you go see them? And. And it all works out. So yeah, I'd say an hour a month with six properties answering tenant related things, but otherwise research and planning the future a little bit more.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

All right, moving on to the world famous fire round.

It's time for the fire round.

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All right. The questions from the fire round come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums, which of course our listeners can go engage in by going to biggerpockets.com forward/forums. And it's totally free, so jump in. Number one, do you feel it's safe to invest where you don't live? Like, is it, is it stupid for a newbie? I know like you, you've kind of been answering that this whole thing, but. And some people alter it a little bit. What's the hardest? I should say, what's the harm in investing out of your area?

Well, the harm investing in out of the area is. Well, first of all, you're not immersed in the culture. You know, you don't know them. I guess not being immersed in the market and the economy can be an issue. So you Know if you're investing somewhere, for example, and there's one major employer where if they left, I don't know, like a car company or something and they left, or the Air Force, possibly, yes. You know, there's one military base base and you buy and that base closes, then what's the, that, what's that going to do to the economy? Are you going to have renters still? So if you don't know that, I mean, that could happen down, you know, down the line. You could be, you know, trying to invest in older houses, right. Where you've been buying newer houses and you don't realize to ask the questions that maybe it doesn't have electrical updated. So you have to eventually do that down the line after you figure out that you fielded five or six calls in the past two months for breakers going out or something of that nature. So I think it absolutely can be safe to do. But you do need to do your research and you need to know the questions. You need to know what to ask because you don't know what you don't know. So a lot of times it's asking people what don't I know? What are the common pitfalls here? And then jump in with a real estate agent that you trust who may invest themselves or at least works with investors.

Perfect.

Perfect.

Well, along those lines, how do you build a great team that you trust? This is the exact question that's written down, how it just flows naturally. How do you build a great team that you trust when you don't see them every day? Are there specific requirements that you look for?

Sure, I do ask. I have a bunch of questions, for example, with people who are going to do the repairs, you know, of course those. Are you licensed? Do you have insurance? But ask about their hours and you know, if we have after hours type stuff going on, all the services that they offer and how they vet their employees. So, you know, are you just sending a mom and pop shop over there? Which, you know, I have supported it in the past, but sometimes it's just easier to have somebody that you can call right away and you know that if somebody else is on vacation that they can come and take their place. The real estate agent that I work with in Florida is amazing. I happen to be at training for the Air Force and my flight mate in my training, his wife was the agent. So of course she knew about investors and everything. She, she has been phenomenal. And then of course just, I mean, referrals, asking around. So there have been plenty of people say, hey, I know this person. And, you know, being specific with what you want, you need to be clear with what your goals are to be able to fulfill your goals. So if you're saying, hey, I want somebody who's reliable, I want somebody who is quick, I want somebody who isn't going to cheat me over or whatever, you know, you lay that all out and you make sure that as you talk to people, you can do that. And actually, the contractor I work with down in Florida who does all my repairs was through thumbtack. And so, you know, I took a bunch of bids and I interviewed everybody, and, you know, and then I also get feedback from, you know, for example, if they happen to go somewhere where the tenant is actually home and the tenant sees them do their repairs, I ask if they're a professional. All of that feedback is good for keeping people on and finding people.

I especially like that note.

Really quick.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yes. So thumbtack is, you know, you can have it as an app on your phone, as a website, but you put out a big bid for your zip code saying, I need XYZ done. And you'll have up to five people respond, you know, and place a bid saying, I can do it for this price, I can do it at this time, or whatever, I can fulfill these services. So, yeah, and I would say if you are pursuing thumbtack, something I found that works is sometimes I'll put out a work order and I won't get a lot of feedback. And so I've learned that I'd say, I'm a real estate investor. I need this done. And maybe it's something small, but, you know, I need this done. And even though it's this small thing and, you know, it may not be worth it to put in a bid, I'm an investor, and I have calls coming in all the time for requests. So if you can do this, you'll absolutely get repeat business. And then that'll get people always replying.

So that's cool. That's a good tip. Well, one thing you mentioned a second ago that I want to point out that I really like, and we do a lot in our company is asking the tenant later how the contractor was. So part of our entire system is whenever a contractor goes over to do a maintenance request, my kind of office manager will actually call the tenant every time and say, was it taken care of? You know, well, how did the contractor do? Is every. Are you satisfied? You know, like. And that has helped us in a tremendous way feel out the bad ones. You Know. Yeah, he came in, but he stunk like cigarette smoke real bad. And like, you know, he's kind of mean to us or he yelled at my kid, whatever. Like, we find those things out and we don't use them anymore. So, yeah, great tip there.

Terrible contractor.

We. We've had such bad. We've had, like, we've had. We had a contractor once that wouldn't talk to women because he didn't think women, like, were good enough to talk to. And so, like, he would only talk to him. It was weird. Like, we've had weird. Yeah, welcome. Welcome to Podunk. Yeah, welcome to Podunka.

I would say. I find tenants are very appreciative when you follow up, too. You know, they know that you, as the landlord, care and, you know, we'll take care of them if it's not taken care of in the way that they appreciate.

So.

Yeah, yeah, you know, ran random. Funny story. So we had a water leak recently at one of our properties, and we after. It was not a water. It was a. The bathtub overflowed a little bit because there was a drain stoppage. Anyway, long story. Got a plumber took care of the problem, and we even went above and beyond and we hired a professional house cleaner to come in and clean up everything. Like, even though it was already clean. I mean, she just detailed that whole section of the house really nicely. The tenant got mad at us and called just, like, crazy angry because they thought you must be covering something up. Did somebody die in the space house or did. Was this a meth house? And she was like, accusing us of doing something bad because we went above and beyond.

So this is really gonna find paranoid people.

Yeah, paranoid. She's so paranoid. I know, I know. We're like, crap. Yeah. Quick tip. Careful of the paranoid ones. So, all right, anyway, number three, should people manage their own properties or should they look to hire it out, especially in the beginning?

Well, I think that that's a big personality question. I have learned a lot managing my own property. Figuring out, for example, air conditioning, you know, if there's a power surge, you know, what can I just tell tenants to do to see if we actually need somebody? You know, hey, you could just go in here, flip this breaker, flip the outside breaker, whatever with not being physically there. And I don't know, I think it depends. If you are worried that you're going to get a phone call in the middle of the night and that's going to absolutely ruin you, then.

For me, managing my own properties has relaxed me a lot. It's helped me understand the property a little bit more that I own and don't live in. And it's helped me realize that, okay, a call has come in and now I can just field that call elsewhere and it'll all work out. Instead of me being worried about all these calls coming in and having, I don't know, for whatever reason, oh, this call came in and it's a horrible house. The tenants are mad at me. No, they're not. Something happened. The tenants called, we took care of it quickly and life is good and it's moved on. And, you know, in a way, I've saved some money not utilizing property management, doing something that I'm happy to do and it doesn't stress me out anymore if it, you know, if I do get that call, but at the same time, you know, somebody might say, absolutely not, I can't do this. And, you know, I would probably recommend, you know, especially if you feel, you know, if you're going to travel a lot and you just can't give the proper attention to your tenants when calls do come through, absolutely. Hire property management.

And really quickly for listeners, when you're factoring in the acquisition of a property, you always want to factor in property management. Always, always, always. Because if you end up doing what Sarah's doing, then at the end of the day, okay, there's bonus on top that, you know, instead of, of paying 8 to 12%, she's paying, let's say 6 on average. Okay, she saves a few percentage points that way, but had she not, maybe in a year or two, she's going to end up using property management and now she's bleeding money because the property manager's taking all of her profits.

Always.

You're telling my story sucks.

All right, last question. For young investors who might lose momentum, do you have any tips to keep them on track? What kept you on track? What kept you motivated? What kept you going?

Absolutely. So what? Well, what kept me going is going for that specific cash flow number. So if you are losing steam for whatever reason, I think it's good to reevaluate your goals. What are you actually going for and what obstacles are demotivating you, if anything? And what can you, well, maybe hop onto bigger pockets and listen to all these podcasts to remotivate you? Because they absolutely do. For me, I mean, every time I hear about a 23 year old doing insane things that I never even thought about doing at 23, it's amazing. So what keeps me going is that financial security in the future, working toward that retirement, being able to pick up for, I don't know, whatever amount of time and see the world, experience, have new experiences, be able to support family, you know, parents in the later stages of life, whatever may come down the line. So that's what keeps me going. And you know, because that was such a big financial blueprint for me to have that security, it's amazing what it's done for me because now instead of me worrying about down the line, what if, what if, what if, I'm just thinking, okay, it's all taken care of, I can do, I can concentrate on the here and now and not worry so much about what's down the line and what may come. And it really is a beautiful thing. So if that's something that you're struggling with and you're losing steam, find that thing that you need to have and figure out how real estate can serve it.

I love that.

That's great.

Awesome. All right, well, before we get out of here, let's end with our world famous.

Alright, these are the same questions we ask every guest every week, so I know you've heard them before. So let's start at number one. What is your favorite real estate related book?

Oh, real estate related book. I think it kind of goes along with the Rich Dad, Poor dad series and this is going to mix a little bit with the business book as well. But it's again, Robert Kiyosaki who Took My Money and that, yes, it is my favorite book in the whole series. It's, you know, it's a little bit more detailed than Rich Dad, Poor dad of course, but it touches on a lot of his other books as well in a more compressed manner. So if you're wondering about, you know, stocks, bonds, real estate, how to invest, all of that kind of stuff, it's a lot more compressed and really, really interesting in terms of how you can make your money work for you.

And it's got an awesome title that I would love hearing Mr. T read.

Yeah.

All right, so you're going to have to pick another book for your favorite business book. So, so what's your favorite business book?

Sure. Well, what helped me focus so currently, I guess business book is Secrets of the Millionaire Mind. I've already kind of talked about that. It really helped me focus on the why of my business, which is also something very important. And you'll find that in the Rich Dad, Poor dad series books too is concentrating on what you're doing and why you're doing it and how you're getting there. So secrets of the Millionaire mind.

Awesome.

Cool.

Awesome. All right, so what do you do for fun besides flying in the back of fighter jets or front of fighter jets?

Sure, sure. I love to dance. I grew up a dancer and I teach dance. It's my secondary job locally here. And teach violin and I do jiu jitsu, so I like a little bit of martial arts and I like to run, so a lot of exercise stuff.

So you're like a dancing jiu jitsuing fighter pilot? Nothing interesting there.

It was a lot of fun in rotc, you know, teaching that. I'm a combatives instructor for the Air Force as well, so it's been a whole lot of fun.

Hey, Brandon, I know big guys. You want to challenge them? So let's hear it whenever we have.

This next Bigger Pockets conference. No, I'm just a big guy, so I bet I could take you. Do you think. Do you think I could take you? You know, martial arts and I can throw people.

You would have your ass kicked so bad by her.

It's not. It's the technique.

We're doing it then.

Sarah, you're small.

Yes.

Yeah, it would be really fun to watch her throw you. I would just get so much pleasure out of watching an ass romping.

All right, good. Good deal. All right, well, next, whenever we do the next BiggerPockets conference, Josh, we're gonna have a wrestling match on stage. It's gonna be great. All right, my final question of the day. What do you believe sets apart the successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

Oh, I think it's a mixture of things. First of all, in the book who Took My Money, it talks specifically about winners who can lose and still win. So you need to factor in the fact that you will lose at some point. You know, you may make a mistake, may obstacle, or something out of your control may happen. But are you factoring that into what your plan is? And if so, you'll see, you know, if you are still winning overall. Right. You can lose and still win. So that scares a lot of people away. When I talk about before, such as evictions or whatever may come, I think also sometimes people get advice from the wrong people, you know, the naysayers. I worked briefly with a real estate agent who discouraged me from buying my first condo here in Colorado. And, you know, as garden level unit, they said, oh, no, you don't want to buy that. You're not going to find any renters. And it is my best cash flowing asset right now. So, you know, that's one thing. Maybe they need to network a little bit more with like minded people. You know, it's good to have naysayers to make sure that, you know, they're. You're thinking of everything and you're still passionate about it, even after the fact. And I guess the last thing I would say are priorities. I think a lot of people say, oh, you know, for me, right, you know, I'd love to run, you know, a mile and a half, under 10 minutes and 30 seconds, but, but for me, well, am I willing, Is it enough of a priority that I'm going to go out and run in sprints every day and do that? Well, maybe not. I like to run for distance, not for speed. So, you know, a lot of times people just, it's not a priority for them. So I think the people who give up, it just wasn't the biggest priority or it wasn't serving enough of their priorities and that's why they give up.

That's so true.

All right, Sarah, before we let you go, how can people connect with you? Where can they find out more about you?

Sure. I'm on Biggerpockets and I'm happy to answer questions and connect through there.

Awesome, awesome. Cool. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate you sharing your story and obviously, hopefully when you listen to show 183, you're also going to be pumped and motivated by this woman who's out there who has done these steals and yeah, thank you.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, it's been fun. See you around the site. All right, bye.

All right, guys, that was Sarah Pritchett. Big thanks to Sarah. Again, really cool show. Not that the other people we bring on the show aren't, quote, normal people, those Nammies. But like, she's just, you know, she's kind of an everyday person who's using real estate to a purpose. It's not like she's all out, you know, balls to the wall kind of thing. Can I even say that on my show, Real estate investor? I don't know if that's.

But I actually don't know what that even means. But I mean, we say it, it's like hardcore, right? Yeah. But when it. Yeah, anyway, yeah, she's super relatable, super fun cool. And I think, yeah, I think anybody listening to the show, you can achieve what she's doing. Even if you work a full time job, if you live in an expensive area, if you live in the hottest market in the US Today is Denver. And if you live in Denver, you can still do it. If you live in la, San Francisco, New York, I don't care. You can do what she's doing.

He doesn't care about any of you.

I don't care about any of the. All I care about is me and my hot tub.

Yeah. Ridiculous.

Amazing. Fourth of July. All right.

Ridiculous. All right, man. Let's get out of here, guys. Check out the site. Jump on the forums biggerpockets.com forums check out the show notes biggerpockets.com show 183-jump on the webinars biggerpockets.com webinar we put them on every week. Definitely get yourself over there. And that's it. We'll see you next week. I'm Josh Dworkin. It off.

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