201: Flipping 100+ "Zombie" Houses with Justin Stamper

This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 201.

Now it's time to fight the good fight. And, like, I literally just felt like that was my calling to fight.

I love it.

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What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dworkin, host to the BiggerPockets podcast, here with my co host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, man?

Hey, you know, not much. Sick baby, all that fun stuff, but whatever, it's fatherhood. I'll take it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What about you?

It's been a tough week, man. I'll be honest, it's been a real tough week. We actually had to say goodbye to one of my dogs. That's so sad. It was. It was tough, man. Very, very difficult for me personally, for my wife, and especially hard for our kids. Yeah. So you've had the dog forever, haven't you? Yeah, she was 14, Suki. She was amazing. So, yeah, it's a. It's a complete nutter bummer. But, you know, she was pretty unhappy and it was. It was time to say goodbye.

So.

Goodbye, farewell, Suki. Good dog. You met her. She was cool, man.

She was cool. She liked me. She didn't like a lot of people, like, you know, newbies, but she liked me from the moment we met.

There you go. There you go. Anyway.

Yeah.

So on a more positive note. Yes. So, awesome show.

Yeah. We both started off with a bummer this week, but.

Bummer. Bummer.

Yeah, bummer. But let's.

Let's.

Let's talk about something positive. Today's show is epic, and you guys are gonna absolutely love this show.

It is great.

Yeah.

This guy is very motivating and has a really cool story. We'll tell you all about it. When you talk about, like, zero to hero, I mean, this guy exemplifies that. I mean, I'll just tease it with. He started his investing career as a person whose own home was being foreclosed upon, and that set forth the inspiration to get him going as a real estate investor. And he really harped a lot on doing things for the right reason and changing things, helping people out and changing lives. And that was awesome. And he's a TV star, so all Sorts of like he's. Yeah, whatever.

It's a big deal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before we get in, man, let's do today's tip.

All right. You want me take it?

Yeah, go for it, man.

All right, so today's quick tip is a lot of you guys are already familiar with the fact that we put our podcast, like this one on YouTube as well. So you can listen in your car on itunes or stitcher. You can also watch it on YouTube. Now, in addition to that, we also put a video every week, at least one, sometimes two, or three, of just really good content. So what my quick tip is today is if you want to learn more about real estate, if you want to get more involved, just a different medium, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Go to BiggerPockets.com YouTube or YouTube. YouTube.com BiggerPockets both will get you there. And make sure you hit that little subscribe button that also tells YouTube, hey, this is a popular channel. These guys are cool. And then, you know, they like us. So there you go.

And you can also watch those videos on biggerpockets.com videos, our video library. But definitely subscribe on YouTube so, you know, when the new videos come out. Yeah, cool, man. Well, like I said, we got a great show. I'm really, really pumped. So today's guest. I mean, zombie house flipping. I don't know if you guys have heard of it. It's a show on A and E, and FYI, I believe it is. And these guys go in and they flip these houses that are in pretty bad shape.

Like, the worst of the worst. Like, I love his. Like, I shouldn't say I love. It's shocking. His story of, like, the murder or the suicide house is, like, that's just shocking. I've never. I've never come across that myself.

And he's come across multiple.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's. He takes the worst of the worst houses. And you guys will. I don't know, you'll learn a thing or two about what he does. It's pretty awesome.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, so today's guest is one of the star of zombie house flipping on AE. And FYI, he's done over 100 rehabs, 200. Over 200 wholesale deals, I believe. And like, I was talking about before, I mean, his story is really inspiring. Started where, you know, he was in a lot of trouble. His family was, you know, they were going to lose everything. They were going to lose everything, and he had to find a way to survive and keep a roof you know, his family had to find a way to keep a roof over their heads and they discovered different tactics and strategies that real estate investors use and realized that, wait, this is a great way to actually build wealth. They were a victim of the market crash, the 08 crash, and the economic downfall. And just to see the turnaround and what these guys, what he's accomplished and how positive he is and what he's out there doing is awesome. So definitely stay tuned. Lots of great tips, lots of energy and good guy Overall. I think I like him. Let's get him on board here, you guys. This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 201. You could check out the show notes@biggerpockets.com show 2.

Otherwise, definitely make sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, or wherever else podcasts found YouTube There you go.

Yep.

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Let's bring him on. All right, Justin, welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you here.

Hey, man, it's good to be here.

Yeah, this should be fun today. And so here's the funny thing. Every week on the podcast, when we have guests, they always say, you know, I feel like I know you and Josh. Like, you know me and Josh because they listen to the podcast. Now today I get to turn the tables a little bit because I feel like I know you already because I DVR your show. You got actually a TV show that I. That I watch, and so it's kind of cool to switch this over.

Dude, that's crazy that you actually watch it.

I haven't watched every episode, but I, you know, I dvr, you know, I DVR at the show and when I get, you know, sitting at home and there's nothing to do at the end of the world and I'm like, you know, then maybe I'll put it on, right?

So instead of my nose, I might watch Justin on television.

Dude, I'm legit flattered. Like, seriously, a good show.

You got good stuff going. It's fun. I've been watching Ken Corsini, another Bigger Pockets guy, got a show as well, like flipping the South. And so I watched the pilot episode.

Of that as well.

Kind of cool. So a little shout out to Ken there. But anyway, yeah, man, let's.

Ken. Ken.

So, yeah, I mean, I watch your show. It's a good show and I really like it quite a bit.

So good job.

Way to get that. Why don't you actually tell people what is the show and what do you do on there?

Okay, so the show is called Zombie House Flipping and it is on A and E&FYI network, and it's pretty much just me and three of my friends renovating messed up dilapidated houses in our neighborhood. We met each other like four. I've known everybody on the show about four years. We actually all, like live on the same street in downtown Orlando. And we just met because, you know, we all work in real estate and whatnot. And we were on the front page of the Orlando Sentinel. And like, two weeks later, man, we just Got a phone call from the people that, like, make all of, like, micro and, like, dirtiest jobs and all that. And they called Ashley. And Ashley thought it was, like a straight up joke, man. She was like, I don't know who you are. She actually said it in, like, her Irish accent. She's like, I don't know who you are, but if you could please stop calling me, that'd be great. And she told me, and she was like, these people say they want to set up a Skype phone call about a show. And I was like, yo, let me talk to him. And we set up a Skype phone call, kind of like just like the one we're on right now. And then, dude, fast forward like a pilot, and six months later, and next thing we knew, they were, like, in our backyards filming us, and we were off to the races. So, yeah, it's just me and my friends doing what we'd be doing, cameras or no camera. Except for Marley finally gets the airtime she deserves.

Is that the noise that we're hearing for those of us who can't actually see the video? Is that Marley chomping on her feet?

Another cute dog. Another cute dog.

Yeah, very cute.

She figures that there's cameras around, dude, she needs to get in on this. She knows cameras equal treats. So it's like.

So you were doing. You were in the business before. Obviously, they saw there was something in the paper about you guys. I'm sure it was about your business. Now you've got a TV show, you're continuing to do your real estate, and at the same time, these guys are. I haven't watched the show, so I can't say I was gonna call it a documentary of what you do, but it's a TV show, so obviously documentary would be a very big stret. But tell us, like, really quick. So it's you doing. What are you flipping? Buy and hold. What kind of real estate are you doing? Oh, it's house. Flipping zombie house.

Yeah. So it's. We're buying just, like, really gross houses. And the cameras are essentially just watching us be the mad men that we are, turning them into. You know, houses that are pretty, that people actually want to live in. But we've bought some, like, gnarly houses, dude. Like, two of the houses from last season were, like, straight up, like, suicide houses, like, still on the wall. Like, we buy some really gross stuff, but they're in super cool neighborhoods. And Orlando is changing a lot. So you have these, like, you know, we have so many, like, block simple, like two twos, three twos that are, like, around the downtown area that some families have lived in since they built that house. But now those neighborhoods are changing so much into, like, cool, hip neighborhoods. And so you find these houses that. It's like a time shell. And a lot of times, you know, nothing's been changed since the 1950s. And then also, you know, a lot of times that the people either passed away, so the houses are just full of junk, or, you know, there's just a lot of scenarios that make a house gross. And also, Orlando got ravaged by the recession, so we. We still have, like, just so many blank foreclosures that just have been in limbo for years.

So you mentioned the suicide murder stuff. Yeah, like, I want to definitely talk about that because that's something we've never talked about on the show. But maybe first let's. Let's go back before there and just talk about how did you get even into real estate? What is your very, like, the beginning? When was that? How did that get started?

Oh, man. Okay, so that's a story. So I. I graduated high school in 2007 and moved to London. I was going there to work for a hip hop record label, and I was doing, like, a paid internship. Thought that I was gonna, like, move to the UK and be like, the next big music producer. And 2008 rolled around, the world fell apart. And my parents owned a small business, they owned a small furniture company, and my dad was like, we have to declare bankruptcy. Like, we're shutting the doors. It would be cool if you could come home. Like, we, you know, just things are hitting the fan. So I came back home, started working actually as a, like a line cook at Disney doing, like, the steakhouse circuit. So, you know, I figured if I can't be the next record producer, I'm gonna be the next Anthony Bourdain. And I'm just cooking. And next thing I know, man, I come home from work one day and these dudes just, like, bang on my window. My window was, like, right off of our driveway, and they could see that I was in there. I guess they tried ringing our doorbell, but our house was, like, kind of falling apart at the time because no money was, like, getting spent on keeping it up. So our doorbell didn't work. So these dudes bang on my window, and I go outside, and I'll never forget this because, like, it felt like a scene out of the movie because it was, like, raining and they had a BMW parked in my driveway and like, two dudes stayed at the car with umbrellas and, like, didn't approach or, like, acknowledge. Like, they didn't even come say, hey.

You'Re about to get shot.

Yeah. Like, it seriously, like, looked like Mafia. Like, it was out of Godfather. And this big dude, man, this big, big guy comes up and he's like, is your dad home? And I'm like, no, man, he's not. What's up? And he's like, I need to talk to him. And I'm like, okay, can you give me a business card? And he's like, I don't have one. Just tell him it's about your house. I'm like, okay. So I get his number. They leave, my old man calls. Like, we, like, legit think we're, like, going to get whacked for, like, maybe some deaths we have. I have no idea. Like, I'm only, like, 19 years old. 18. 19 years old. And it turns out these guys straight up bought our house at the foreclosure auction that day. And when we finally got a hold of them, they were like, look, you need to either get out or, you know, you can buy the house back from us. And, dude, this is, like, my childhood home, you know? They were like, you need to either be out by Friday or get us cash. I mean, even if we started moving the week prior, we couldn't have been out by Friday. You know, it's like, like I said, my childhood home. I live here with, like, my entire family and ended up calling every sing person we knew who would maybe be interested in helping us out and, like, buying our house to renovate and resell. Because we looked at the scenario and we knew for the price that they paid for our house at the auction that hopefully we would be able to renovate ourselves and resell it. And we ended up raising the capital from a couple friends of ours who were liquid and bought our house back from these guys for 50 grand more than they paid for it two days later. And we ended up, me and my dad renovated the house, sold it, and that's what gave us our startup capital to start buying, like, little ghetto houses at the auction. So, like, I started buying at the auction, like, literally, like, two weeks after we sold our house. And I was just like, okay, I guess real estate's what we're doing. Because it was the first time my family had made a dollar in probably two years. Like, the recession destroyed my family. Like, we had nothing. I wrecked my car and ended up, like, taking all the insurance money to, like, keep the lights on out of our house because we. The power would get shut off every single month because that never happened.

So I'm guessing you didn't wreck it on purpose.

No, no, not on purpose. Like, I was driving like an E150, like, kind of line. No windows, just two seats. Like, you guys know the van I'm talking? Yeah, that was parked.

That was parked in front of my house. People steal children from those.

Yeah, yeah. Like.

Like three candy.

Three.

Yeah.

Three months ago here on the podcast, I talked about that van sitting in front of my house and it was.

Like creeping my wife out.

Remember that? Yeah, yeah. You were in front of my house, apparently.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

I bought that for like $1,000 and ended up using the rest of the money to, like, keep the lights on. And I would drive to other people's job sites and Home Depot charges a hundred dollars to deliver. So I would tell people I'd go get their materialist for 50 bucks. And like, that was like one of my hustles, man. Like, I would buy houses at the auction during the day, and the auction would finish at like, noon, 1 o' clock at the latest. And then I would go, like, run materials all day, just trying to keep the cash coming. And, you know, just like. Cause when after we sold our first house, we couldn't really afford to buy a lot, you know, we could only buy like, essentially little, like, crack houses in war zones and things like that. So we're buying like $30,000 houses, $40,000 houses. But I had dreams to get higher, you know, like, there were neighborhoods in Orlando that I wanted to be in that I couldn't afford to at the time. So running materials and just doing one little house at a time, like, eventually got us to the neighborhoods we wanted to be. And, you know, a little bit.

Let me dig in a little bit on this.

Yes.

First off, we've talked to a lot of people. This is show 201 over the years. I don't think we've ever actually talked to somebody from your perspective, somebody who is going to lose their house, it's always somebody coming in to take over the house. Right. So that's crazy, you having that perspective as the guy who saw the other side of what the real estate investors are doing. Obviously, from the way you explained it, it was kind of shitty experience with the don showing up in the overcoat, the gunman. But what did that motivate you? What did that do to you from a mental perspective? Because obviously you guys found a way to get your house back, make Some money. And that got you pumped, Right? But what did it do, at least in their approach? How did that kind of trigger how you do business potentially? Did that give you a unique perspective to what you hear investors talking about?

Yeah, 100%. So, I mean, I remember pretty clearly, like, how I felt while all this was happening, because this is, like, my first interactions with, like, the real world, you know what I'm saying? And my sister was, I think, 12 at the time. And I come from a family of entrepreneur hustlers, so my dad is the youngest of eight from Detroit. My mom and dad have, like, owned a business together since they were, you know, since they were 28 years old, you know, and when all this happened, it wasn't like we could fall back and be like, let's just go get another job. I mean, my dad dropped out of high school in 10th grade, and my mom did one year of college. Like, it's not like we could just be like, let's go send our resumes out and figure out how to get out of this situation. It was like, oh, shit, what do we do? Like, we're gonna be homeless, you know? And when these people bought our house and we found that we could. When our friend was like, yeah, you know, we'll put up some cash, another person said, they'll put up some cash, and we bought it back. That, to me, was, like, just survival mode, you know? It was to make sure that my girls don't end up without a roof over their head, you know? Like, I knew and my old man knew, and he was the one that was really, like, paving the way for me, because, I mean, this is like, the largest male role model in my life. He's like, dude, as long as. Like, as long as we have each other and we can get a little bit more cash, we'll be fine, you know, like, we just. We were just weather in the storm. And, you know, I saw these guys. I always wanted to be wealthy. I always wanted to be successful. I always wanted to, like, make my parents proud. And then when I saw, like, all of America collapse, then it became, like, almost like a national thing for me, too, because, like, I'd watch September 11th, like, destroy my family. The first recession around, we had to declare bankruptcy after 9, 11 as well. So when I saw this happen, part two, I was like, dude, this is, like, my country. This is my people. These are my whole. My city. Dude, Orlando is bad. When you want to talk about cities affected by the recession, Orlando is up there, man. I'm not going to say Orlando was like, Detroit, but we were up there. Like, I knew none of my friends had great jobs, but we were all coming out of college, you know, and they're coming out with massive debt. Luckily, I've never done a day of college in my life because I didn't have a choice, quite frankly. Like, my parents couldn't pay for me to go to college. And my number one concern was keeping, like I said, a roof over my family's head. And it just kind of became like one of those things where I was like, okay, it's us versus the banks. The banks and the greed and all of that got us here. And now my generation, like, is having so many opportunities taken away because of it. Now it's time to fight the good fight. And, like, I literally just felt like that was my calling to fight.

I love it.

Fight and be the little man, you know, trying to fight these corporate giants that we're just a number to them. That's all we are. We're just a number in the system. And then, you know, they don't care about us. So I care about my city, I care about America, and I like fighting the good fight. I think it's just my punk rock roots, dude. I can't get off of it. Establishment.

All right. Awesome, man. Punk rock, dude. I get it. It's fantastic. So you started with these 30 to $40,000 houses, right? Now, your intention when you guys started was, were you guys going into flip, or were you guys going to do, like, were you doing buying holds at all? Or have you always been just get in, renovate, turn it, go to the next one, and then eventually we're going to scale to these bigger, nicer homes in the better neighborhoods. Was there a plan or were you guys just doing it?

So, yeah, at the beginning, we were buying strictly at the courthouse auction. That was my job. I would go every morning and we would pick up about one to maybe two houses a week to start renovating. And we were buying smaller houses that we were able to finish the renovations pretty darn quick on, and we would just relist them and, you know, get new home buyers approved and try to get them into new affordable houses. So we're doing a lot of really affordable houses that people could qualify for, even though we are in the, like, middle of the worst recession of my lifetime.

So what does that typically look like in terms of, I mean, what were you buying them for? What were you putting into them? What were you selling them for?

So we, you know, we were buying pretty standard Florida block construction houses, you know, single level, you know, three bedrooms, one bath. You know, if it had a half bath, we'd convert it to a 3, 2. But pretty like basic renovations. And, you know, we knew we could do a good renovation for 15 to 20 grand. So we would buy it at the auction for, let's say, 50, put, you know, 15 to 20 into it, and then we'd be able to sell it on the market for anywhere between, you know, 100, 110 bucks, and we would, you know, make a decent return on our cash. And as we did more and more of those, you know, we got a little bit more momentum behind us and we got way more involved with the investment community. A guy that I became good friends with, who was a mentor of mine at the time, was really involved in the lower end neighborhoods and the churches for the lower end neighborhoods. What him and I came up with was we talked a law firm that was doing short sale negotiations. We talked them into doing it essentially like pro bono, and that the banks would pay for the short sale negotiation on the back end of the sale. And then a hedge fund who had approached us about acquiring property for him at the auction, I talked them into giving us like a line of credit that we didn't really have to ask to use. We essentially could just like buy a house with it and just at our own discretion, have to do it. And then we were getting the homeowners, like, cash for keys, because back then that was like totally a thing. Because in Florida, you know, you would rather just pay somebody to leave your property instead of having them pour cement down the plumbing lines. And like, because people were doing that, you know, people were really mad at the recession. So people would destroy their houses just to, like, give the middle finger to the bank. We put together kind of like this pack. Oh, and also we got a credit repair company to offer these people a year long of credit repair. And then, I know it sounds confusing, but let me tell you what we did with this, like, little program we created. We would go to the churches and tell the staff of the church, like, please let all of your congregation know that if they are in foreclosure to please come and see us and we'll take care of them. Or at least try, like, we'll. We'll see what we can do. And essentially what we were doing is we were getting people to short sale their homes to our company with the hedge fund. Now the hedge funds, they have like a five year exit strategy. And that was something that was very clear to us at the beginning that these people were just looking to be in and out within five years on their cash to use the money to pay pension funds. So they really only needed like 3 to 4% returns as well, like on this cash. So knowing that this is what the hedge funds wanted, what we did is we would get the people their houses short sale to us, but we would let them remain in the home and essentially rent to own their houses back then we would have the credit repair people repair their credit from the short sale with a year long of free credit repair. And then we would hopefully get them cash for keys sometime. I mean, one time we got this girl 22,000 bucks just to stay in her house. You know, we got. So we were getting these people money to restart their lives with and then repairing their credit. And then they, if they wanted to, could stay in their home and essentially like lease to own it back from the entity that owned it. And we did that from like 2009, I think is when we started. And we made it like a solid year and a half of doing that. And then they outlawed it. Man, they made like doing.

I remember when they all had that. Yeah.

So, like we were just helping people out and they made it illegal, so we had to stop. But that was the next step of what we're doing, of fighting the good fight and trying to be the Robin Hood's real estate.

How did that happen? I mean.

The idea of helping people out, I think is one shared by a lot of investors. Not all, a lot of them are in it just to make money, but I love that idea. That said, this is not an uncomplicated situation that you established. You got this hedge fund financing, you're the credit repair company, you're doing the short. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts. How did you get there from. Because one of the points of this show is to teach people and motivate them and inspire them. Right. So since you can't really do that stuff now, we don't need to dive in too much. But how did you get there from, hey, we're flipping 15 to 50,000, seven to $50,000 houses to suddenly I'm doing short sales and da da, da, da da. There's a whole lot of stuff happening. You got a hedge fund backing you. I mean, how does one get to the point where, you know, they've got a hedge fund who's. Who's coming to them to help them finance their real estate dealings? What was the crux of that?

Yeah, honestly, it Was just me kind of being a machine when it came to, like, asking people older than me who have more experience and more wealth for help, and also just like, asking them, hey, what are you doing? You know, because when I was buying at the auction, it was kind of like a fraternity. Like, it was fun. Those are, like, some of my favorite years of real estate. Because, like, before the auction, all the dudes would, like, everybody played fantasy. Everybody would gamble, like, crinkle up docket of the list and, like, try to throw it in the waste bin for, like, $100 a throw. Like, these dudes were just, like, fun. Like, they all knew each other. Because at the time, like, flipping houses wasn't necessarily, like, an everyday word. You know, it was still kind of like a niche, because this is like, 2008, 2009. It was kind of like a niche thing. So all these guys knew each other, and they spent every day seeing each other, and they all worked together as well. So it was like 15 guys at the auction who, like, I just fit right in with because I was, like, 18 and, you know, just full of piss and vinegar, trying to take over the world. And I would just ask questions. And one of the guys was represented from a hedge fund. And I was like, how did that happen? And he was like, honestly, I was just looking for capital. And I just, like, found that their LLC was buying. And I tracked down that llc and I got in contact with them, and I was like, who buys for you in Orange County? And then now I buy for them in Orange County? And I was like, oh, well, that seems, like, simple enough. So I essentially tried to do the same thing. And we found a hedge fund that was based out of Miami and just started working with them. And at the time, we had, like, enough of a track record, and we did with the hedge fund, at first, we did, like, just normal deals. Like, they would just put up the cash. They were essentially like a hard money lender, and we would just split the proceeds with them. But then when we had this idea of, like, how to help people, then it kind of just transitioned to that. But really, it was just like talking to a real estate attorney who was handling short sales to, like, figure out how to acquire more property. Like, that's how that lead started. The credit repair girl, she was buying real estate as well. And I was just like, what else do you do? And she's like, oh, well, I also do credit repair. That's like, my specialty. You know, I tried to help people, you know, re fix after foreclosure but she was also buying property too. So, like, I was just meeting people through like the community that I was working in and just like approaching people. Because all I knew is I wanted to be successful at this, but I didn't know anything about it. Like, I was only 18, 19 years old, no college education, fresh out of high school, and I knew I wanted to keep my parents alive with a roof, and I wanted my sister to have the chance to go to college and I wanted to help America. And so I just talked to everybody, like, and I'm sure I annoyed the out of some people because I was just like non stop relentless, like, hey, what are you doing? How can I do it too? Is there any way I can help? And I would just always offer to help and like, things just kind of like transform from there, you know, just like always pivoting and adjusting what we were trying to do to make it the best product possible, whether it's helping people or making houses.

You know what I love about your story is that like, like, especially at this time, this age, if you're like 18, 19 years old, you know, hustling, you know, we have a lot of listeners right now listen to the podcast that are 18, 20, 25, you know, younger guys and girls listen to the show and a lot of like, I'm too young to invest in real estate. I don't have a lot of money to invest in real estate. But back then you didn't have a lot of money or a lot of experience either. What I love though, and this is the thing that anybody can pull out of the show is that when you are younger, even if you're older, but you're just getting started, like, just get interested and passionate in this and it like feeds off other, like other people feed off that. Like those older guys, they were like, oh, this guy Justin, I like him. And they're gonna teach you everything in, you know, because you're inquisitive. So, yeah, if you're out there listening right now and you are just getting started, whatever, just get enthusiastic or show up where those guys are at and ask a million questions and you're gonna learn so much. Yeah, I mean, maybe you're not gonna do a, you know, combine this big elaborate system to help people. That's not the point of this show. This point of the show is to, I mean, that's what made you successful in the path that you took. So I think people can definitely take that out of today's show as well.

Yeah, people, honestly, they were more receptive of it because I was so young and I feel like they could see the fire in my eye. Like, I would make that very clear. Like, hey, I'm not just talking. I'm ready to do this. When I say, hey, if you need help with anything, that means, like, I don't care what it is. Like, I said, I got the E150 outside. Dude, you need me to go pick up materials? Let's do this. But I was just, I wanted to do it. And because I was young, I felt like a couple people. There were a couple, like, real key people in my life that I don't know if they would have helped me out had I been their age. But since I was young and the world was crumbling around us, especially for young people, like fresh out of high school or fresh out of college, like, it was like the worst time ever to especially have like student debt if you had that or like wanted to get a job, you know, I, it seems like everybody I knew went and got a finance degree until the world market collapsed and then that thing was like as useful as an art degree. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was just a bad time. And I think that people were just like, people were just receptive. It was cool. There was a lot of, there was, there's a handful of people that have changed my life 100% by them just extending the, what is it? The grape. Extending the olive branch. Extending the olive branch.

That's cool.

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Hey, so let's talk about auctions because that was your original path for finding property, is finding opportunities. So really quickly, what are the auctions like? What kind of auction? I'm assuming it's foreclosure auction. What is that process like where you say at the courthouse? Is it literally at the courthouse for somebody who doesn't know anything about it? Tell us about what is an auction? What does it look like? What is the process like? And what should people really know about buying at auction? What should they be wary of?

So the auction at the time that we're talking about was at the courthouse. It was on the third floor and it was the foreclosure docket sale essentially. So Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday were foreclosure sales. And then on Wednesday it was like tax and HOA foreclosures and timeshare foreclosures, which we never went to Wednesday, but we did Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. And essentially it was a room full of guys live bidding. And like my bid number was S179. So anytime they would be like case number, you know, SL5691 etc. Etc. Bank, what do you start your bid at? And they would have like one representative from the bank and they'd be like the bank bids $100. But we would know the actual payoff amount that the banks wanted. We would get that in the morning. So we would just bid like a dollar over. So let's say the bank really KNEW they needed 150. We would be like you know, S179 bids $150,001. And then that would essentially actually start the bidding process. And we would bid against each other and we would also bid against the banks. But if anybody is listening and you are going to an in person auction, I highly suggest going and just watching a few and getting familiar with the people there, because it was kind of like the wild west of, like real estate. Like, we would bid people up just because we didn't like them. We would bid up newcomers just because we would be like, this is my courthouse. You're not buying here. Run up the property so they couldn't buy anything. And then if we won the bid, we'd be like, oh, house is on fire. S179 removes their bid. And you were allowed to remove your bid once per property, but you couldn't bid on it again. So, like, if we knew, even if we knew we didn't want to buy the property, if it was somebody's first time at the auction, we would just do it to mess with them. And, like, we were brutal. Honestly, I started buying horrible people, dude. I know. I started buying at the auction because my dad tried to go. And my dad was like the same age as all these dudes. And they would start like, just fucking my dad. And my dad was like, son, you gotta, like, see if these dudes like you, because I ain't getting nowhere with them. And on the first day, I did one of the, like $100 shots, you know, for the wastebasket. And I also bought two properties and talk smack to these dudes about fancy football. Like, I don't know, I was just kind of there like, bro, and out with these dudes, and they're like, who is this kid? Like, what? What just happened? And they, like, let me into like, their boys club. It was like my little fraternity. And it was a lot of fun. But the auctions, if you do win it right there on the spot, you have to put down 10% on the property. So all of us had cash. We would always, like, I would walk in there with like $15,000 in cashier's checks or I would actually, like have hundreds on me. But now the auctions are online and it's all changed. It's completely different now. You can bid from anywhere in the world. So the hedge funds are right back in it, the institutions are right back in it, and I haven't bought a house from an auction in probably five years.

Oh, wow. Right?

I know some people still are buying in auctions in other areas. Like my area. That's not online, it's still at the courthouse. So if you're listening to this going, oh, everything you just said, it doesn't make, it doesn't make sense anymore. I mean in Orlando maybe, but yeah, a lot of areas still. I mean ours is still on the courthouse steps out front every other Friday or whatever, you know, like we still do it that way. Yeah. So I mean just don't be bummed out because there's still auctions. This is happening all over the place. He's got to figure out what works in your area. Now I do have a question though on that. If people are looking to buy an auction, what are some things to be aware of? For example, like are there, what if there's a hidden lien or what if there's, you know those, how do you know those things? How do you know that you're not bidding on something that has a mechanics lien on it for $5 million?

Yeah. I would also have my attorney do like a title search on the property and see if there are any liens that wouldn't be wiped off by clearing out the first mortgage, you know, because the last thing you want to do is buy a property at the auction and then have a mortgage or a lien that doesn't get wiped out from taking out the master lien on the property and that. Actually a girl hit up my website this week and she bough a house at the auction and unfortunately it only wiped away the second lien on the property and now she's stuck with a property that is being re foreclosed on unfortunately in her name because the other lien on it, which didn't come up in the title search somehow just slipped through the cracks and she bought it at the county auction and now she owes a 200 grand on it and she's just going to have to let it go back to the bank. And it's a really sad story when that happens because. Because I don't know how to help. And if anybody is listening does know how to help, please reach out to me because I would like to help this girl out. But I mean that just seems like one of those scenarios you're just stuck with.

Yeah, yeah, that's one of the big things. Like we tell new investors, like there's definitely opportunity but you gotta know what you're doing. You don't want to. You know, besides the fact that you're gonna have a bunch of bros like you like just effing with you if you go, which you know, sucks.

I'm sure it happens. I'm sure you're not the only one who does that. In fact, I'm pretty positive that it happens frequently. Beyond that, you know, just knowing how it works, understanding that there could be hidden liens, there could be liens on the property. And if you're not doing your diligence, you go and you buy a property for $50,000, but don't realize that you owe 100 after you bought it for 50, you know, and you're screwed. All of a sudden. You're screwed. Yeah. So be careful. All right, So I want to kind of move over to where you are today. And before we get there, let's just talk about the transition. Right. You started, you were doing these little deals, obviously, I'm assuming you've been able to scale it up to much bigger deals. What is the last. You said at five years ago you stopped going to auctions. What does the last five years look like? And how many deals have you actually done? How many flips have you done? Are you doing anything else? Fill us in on that.

Okay, so I guess we'll just get the numbers out of the way at this point. I've done around 100 renovations. During the crash. Me and my old man did a ton. We did in a three year span. We did like 85 renovations. We crushed it because we were doing much smaller renovations. And we also, we had much bigger teams than I do nowadays that were essentially running our project. So at one point we had 14 renovations going on at once, which I'll never do again because that is just way too much in my books. If you ask me. There's not enough time in the day for that. But I would say we've done about 100 renovations. And then as far as real estate transactions, you know, I've wholesaled probably another 150, 50 to 200 houses in the last five years. And then I own a real estate brokerage now. So I mean, you know, we just transact real estate, all that. I wouldn't say necessarily. That's like added to my roster. But, you know, we transact real estate all the time. But the last five years, so after we were able to, you know, essentially get people out of foreclosure and let them stay in our homes, we started really wholesaling a lot because we were able to buy the houses at the auction and essentially just like give them away to investors who weren't buying at the auction. And we would be able to buy a house for 50, resell it for 60, the same exact day. So we started wholesaling a lot. I met two people who really showed me the ins and outs. At the time. They were the two largest wholesalers in Orlando, and they were a team. And they kind of took me under their wing. They just thought I was like this funny, weird young kid who wanted to grind. And they really showed me the ropes on, like, how to professionally wholesale. And I went to go work for their firm. My parents moved to Denver, so I was no longer renovating properties with my old man. So I was here just fighting the good fight on my own. You know, I'm 20 to, like. Yeah, I'm like 20 to 21 at the time. And I didn't have all the capital. Essentially, once the auction fizzled out, a lot of the capital did as well. The hedge funds weren't giving us the money to buy for them. Now the auction's online, so they can just do it themselves. We essentially got cut out of the deal. And so I didn't have millions of dollars at the time. I still don't. But we had no. I didn't have the capital I needed to really flip. So wholesaling, which is natural because I still had the pipeline of the real estate. I just needed people's cash to do it. So I started wholesaling a lot of houses with from like 2009 to pretty much present day. And then I started renovating again in 2012, I think is when we really started, like, getting back into it. The market was changing. You know, you could see that the market was out of the down cycle, and we were right back up into where we had been in 2003, 2004. As far as Florida's market. Felt like I started pooling hard money again to buy houses. And we just kept going, man. We started renovating at this time also. I got into way more intricate rehab. So nowadays I pretty much only buy houses in downtown Orlando that are cool. Either, like early 1900s to, like, 1980s, either wood framers or block houses that are in cool, hip neighborhoods that I can do, like, fun, unique renovations on, because that's what I like to do. Like, I'm buying this house next week that I'm gonna put a garage door lift for the living room. So, like, you can either park your car and display it like art, or you can have it as a living room that has one of those cool frosted glass doors that roll up. So I couldn't do that in just like a weird, like, in a suburb neighborhood where it's all cookie cutter houses. But when you do it in, like, cool, hip neighborhoods, like, if I was in lohi, I would be able to do things like that, like in Denver. So those are the renovations I like to do now. That's my farm area, and that's what we really go after. And it's cool because it keeps things fresh for the show, you know, because we always have to try to give America something cool. You know, nobody wants to watch us paint things beige and put shaker cabinets in every single one, you know, so we try to keep. Keep it unique, and that keeps us in unique neighborhoods. So it's cool. I really like what we're up to nowadays. I really like watching Orlando change and being a part of it, you know, being a part. Change in the city.

Yeah, right on. That's cool. Go ahead, Brandon.

Well, as I say, let's go back to something we talked about at the very beginning of the show that you mentioned it. I said I wanted to come back to. So it's in my notes. Here is. That's the. When you buy, like, a suicide or murder house. I know that probably back in the day, but I'm just curious, like, how does that. How does that work?

What's your obsession with that, Brandon?

You know, I live in.

You look a little bit like a crazy killer. If I saw you.

I do have the Cobain house. Yeah. You know, it's the. It's the Kurt Cobain thing. So. He didn't die in my house, though. You know, he just was born in my house, which is much.

It'd be worth way more if he did.

It would be worth way more if I had the Seattle house that he died in. Yeah, no, but I got the house he was born in. But. So. But when you buy a house, I mean, because that does come up. Houses that have had a murder or suicide in them, they come up on the market occasionally and usually really cheap because nobody wants them. Like, how do you. I mean, how do you deal with that? What do you do? I mean, do you have to declare that stuff later? Even after the rehab? How do you. How do you handle those?

Okay, so that is, like, federally protected, so you don't have to disclose if there's a murder, a suicide, or if somebody that was HIV positive lived inside the home. So essentially, I just tried to do the right thing. And by that, I mean cleanse that house with sage, ask the spirits to move on, and then take out every inch of drywall and tile and. And anything else that could have been around it and just start fresh. You know, it's not the house's fault that that happened. And it's not like you're gonna bulldoze every house that somebody dies in and start over. So I just try to do the right thing. You know, we cleanse a lot of our houses. Ashley is from Ireland. She's, like, from the bogs, and she's really into, like, smudging all of our houses, and she's super awesome. So, like, we'll try to do the right thing for the spirits. And then we just tear out the drywall and everything. We'll tear out everything. So, like, if there's like a. Like, for example, we had, like, a bathtub suicide. So, like, the whole entire bathroom went down to stud. There was not an inch of it left. And then it just became a new bathroom. Because, you know, like I said, it's not like you can bulldoze every house that somebody unfortunately passes away in. So we just tried to do the right thing and just renovate the out of it so you'll never know it happened.

What is smudging?

Smudging is, like, when you burn sage and, like, the herbs in the house, and you, like, say a prayer, and you. You're supposed to, like, put it in the corners, and you walk around a house, and it's supposed to, like, cleanse it of the spirits and the energy.

I've never heard of that, but interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. I had known about it, but I'd really never done until I met Ashley. But I guess in the bogs of Ireland, it's a thing.

So on these murder houses, are you. Are you getting them? I'm assuming you're getting them really cheap.

Yeah, for sure. Well, the two had been foreclosures that, you know, I guess after it happened, they had gone through the foreclosure ringer, and we picked it up, and it wasn't. We didn't know about these situations with the houses until we had already bought them from the bank. And, you know, we tried to be friendly with all the neighborhoods. So I'll go introduce myself to the neighbor. You know, just let them know that we're renovating the house, and if they need anything, they can come see us. And it's through the neighbors that I had learned these things. You know, they'd be like, oh, I see you bought old Bill's house. It's a shame what happened to old Bill a couple years ago. And you're like, what happened to old Bill? And he's like, oh, he done offed himself, you know, Inside the bathroom?

Yep.

It was a damn shame they had the stretcher here and everything, you know, and you're like, oh, no, what have we got ourselves into? But, you know, we do, we do big renovations and essentially everything inside our houses are new. So, you know, I hope people can see past the fact that somebody had passed on to the other world. But the houses look like another world. So, you know, we offer them pretty new products these days. It doesn't matter if I'm like renovating a 1500 square foot house or a 3000 square foot house. It seems like one way or another, we're putting 100 grand in that thing. So, like, everything is new top to bottom. Like, it's essentially just a shell that we make new again. So hopefully they can see past it with the beautiful new hardwood floors.

Is there anything that, you know, you'll take a suicide, you'll take a murder. Is there anything that's too bad for you to do? Is there anything you're like, nah, I won't go there.

No, man. Our show is called Zombie House Flipping. Like, what kind of coward would I be if I start straying away from these things? You know, this year we actually, unfortunately, we lost money on this. We tried to buy this, like, firehouse, and it was like the entire house was torched, but it was blocked, so the block was fine. But like, you walked inside and I'm talking the trusses and the roof, you name it, it was torched. And we tried to buy that to renovate on the show. And unfortunately it was a house that like, had a lien on it that we couldn't get past. We couldn't get the lien off of it. And we actually lost 30 grand because of it, which sucks. I mean, but it, you know, it's expensive education as it seems all real estate can be sometimes.

Yeah.

Did that go on tv? Did that one go on tv? Like, did people see a loot?

No, because we never had a chance to, like, do anything with it. We just like put a deposit down and then just lost everything because we couldn't wipe the lean off. And unfortunately, it was one of those things that like, didn't pop up until, like the day of closing. And it is what it is, man. You just, you know, just be thankful to be live and move on to the next one, you know?

Yeah, right on.

All right. All right. So. All right, my last question of the day. You know, we talked a lot about how you used auctions to begin earlier, you know, had to begin earlier on. And you Said you don't really use auctions anymore. So my question is, how are you finding deals in today's market?

Today's market is hot, man. It's a lot harder to find deals than it once was. And the returns we're getting are also way less than we're used to. I mean, back in the day, we were getting big returns. Sometimes we would get 40% returns. These days, you know, we're squeaking out in the teens once we divvy up our profits amongst us and things like that. So nowadays, you know, I send mailers, which, you know, sometimes have a good response, other times they don't. That's hit or miss. That's just one of those things you got to stay consistent with. Yeah, I buy from wholesalers because I know every wholesaler in Orlando, so, you know, they'll know exactly what I want. And everybody knows that. We're filming season two of Zombie house flipping, and everybody supports what we're doing because we're doing it for Orlando. You know, we're trying to represent Orlando, so we're doing it for our city. We're fighting the good fight. So my friends that are wholesalers, if they have a house that they think would be good for us, they'll give us, like, one day to look at it before they send it to their list. So a lot of my friends in the wholesale community have helped us with a lot of houses, man. I would say about half of the houses we buy nowadays are from wholesaling, from wholesalers. And then, you know, Ashley and I own a real estate brokerage called Blueprint Real Estate Group. And I've taught my guys. I hired, like, 10 real estate agents who had, like, no experience at all in real estate so that I could teach them the way that I learned how to acquire property. And now they're just kind of, you know, just plugging away, man. Whether it's mls, they go and door knock. My guys are animals, man. They door knock every weekend for neighbors to see if they want to sell. We do handwritten letters. We sell postcards. Like, I just showed them, like, how to be a hustler. Like, how I was shown how to be a hustler. And they just plug away, man.

And I think that that's the truth. Across the country, we talked to every guest on the podcast, basically says the same thing, like, you cannot get deals the way that we used to be able to. This is not 2009 anymore. And so, like, if you want the deals, you've got to hustle. You've got to do what everyone else is not willing to do.

And I think that's the point. That is truth. It definitely separates who's hustling from who's not, man. Because you're not getting deals if you're not hustling.

Yeah, right on.

And I've got nothing more. So why don't we move on to the fire round and we'll, we'll dig in a little bit.

It's time for the fire round.

All right. The world famous fire round. These questions come direct from the BiggerPockets forums. Question number one. For a first time buyer, would you suggest somebody or basically they said, should I go to an auction as a first time buyer? And it kind of relates to what you talked about earlier. But, but for somebody brand new, should they even deal with auctions?

No, you should, if you are going to go, just go to watch. Like don't go to actually play. I would say the same thing to somebody who said they're going to start day trading or something like that. Like watch, see what the real players are doing before you put any capital involved. Because last thing you want to do is end up with a house that has a secret lien on it. And then your first real estate transaction leaves you with the worst taste in your mouth forever. You know, there's other ways to find property. Go to your RIA meetings. Meet some wholesalers that actually have a good reputation. Meet some realtors who are investor friendly. You know, there's, there's other places to find real estate. Don't go to the auction at first and if it is, live in your city. Go and watch and go and talk to the people. But don't go there with ten grand to gamble with because it's gambling.

Yep, there you go. And, and be sure that you can make the basket or else you're gonna get hazed like hell.

Yeah, yeah. Luckily it's like my bar trick, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm like the LeBron James of shooting like paper and waistband. So like, you got it, let's do it.

Full skill, man. Had you gone to college, all that money wasted on shooting baskets would have been for good.

So hey, man, I probably could have made it back like in beer pong hustling, that would have been what I would have done next, I guess.

Nice. All right, next question. The firearm. As a young investor, where should I, what should I start with? Flipping Wholesaling rentals. What would you recommend?

Oh man, that's a tough one. Because looking back, I Kind of wish that I had been taught the, like, buy and hold long game instead of, like, fumbling through it the last, like, eight, nine years that I've been doing this. That being said, you know, I don't think wholesaling is the route for people to start. I don't know how this, like, somehow became a misconception that everybody thinks they're gonna wholesale their way to have enough cash to buy a house. I don't think I've ever met. I don't think anybody's ever. I don't know one person that's done that, and I know every wholesaler in Orlando.

Seriously, man. Like, we all, like, flipped on the side and, like, wholesale. Like, it was never one or the other. You know what I'm saying? Like, if. If I only relied on wholesaling income to get me by, I would go broke. I would not be able to pay my bills. And I'm a huge wholesaler in Orlando, or at least once upon a time I was. So I don't think wholesaling is the path. And I feel bad for these people that have it, like, imprinted in their mind that it is. I would go to a rea meeting. I would figure out who your lenders are, because cash is kind of cheap right now. You know, I've got people loaning 90%. You know, you just need 10% down, and you can usually find somebody who you're like, hey, I'll split the proceeds on you. If you come up with the cost of the hard money, and then you just do the sweat equity, you know, go get yourself that E150, man. Go run those job sites, like, get out there and try. But that would be my advice. I. I would. Maybe I would just go to the RIAs, see what other people are doing, because every market's different. You know, if you're in a market that, like, Angelo Remora, like, a good buddy of mine, he is in Toledo, Ohio, where it's. It makes way more sense to, like, buy these little houses and keep them and cash flow them. Where in Orlando, I'm, like, priced out of the rental market. So it makes zero sense to keep pretty much any of our houses these days, and we might as well sell them until the next market swing where we can buy houses affordably again. So I would go to the ria, see what your market calls for, and just introduce people and see if you can find a mentor, because that's really what will point you in the right direction.

Yeah, I love that. I love that advice. People should re Listen to that or go on this. Listen to that whole segment again because that was fantastic advice. All right, number three, I'm brand new. So this is kind of actually. So somebody who is brand new and wants to wholesale. We get a lot of these questions on the forum. This is just one of them. I'm brand new. I want to start wholesaling. What's my first steps? So let's just say they are going to do it. Hypothetically speaking, you know, even after the advice you just gave.

What are they? No doubt. Okay. Research. You know, BiggerPockets has a great. Like, I'm pretty sure you guys have a whole wholesaling forum and you can find a lot of step by steps because what you want to do, and I think this is really bottom line is you want to create win, win, win situations because you're representing the seller, the buyer and yourself when you're wholesaling a property. So you really need to make it a win, win, win for everybody. Which means, like, being pretty transparent and not leaving the people high and dry. Like, if you're assigning contracts or you're doing double closings, just make sure the property gets closed. Like, I'm not going to be one of those guys that are like, you shouldn't be wholesaling unless you have the funds to actually close on it. Because I didn't start that way. I don't think anybody starts that way. I think that's just what old people like to yell. Like these kids these days with their double closings, you know, like, it is what it is, man. If you can double close and like, make a transaction happen and the sellers are happy with the price and the buyers are happy with a new investment property, then you're doing a service in my book and you deserve to make a fee. So just try to represent people. And like I always tell people, like, we're fighting the good fight. So either hop on board with that, which means, like, you're gonna have to make judgment calls that aren't the easiest. You're gonna have to do things that aren't fun. But what you are going to do is you're going to do right by other people. You're going to do right by America. You're going to do right by yourself. So if you can fight the good fight, then go for it. Wholesale property. Just read a couple books. There's lots of info on bigger pockets and, you know, fight the good fight. Go make them fees.

Perfect.

Awesome.

All right, last question of the fire round. How real are the flipping shows. I mean, you're on a show. I mean, a lot of them. I've got beef with a lot of the shows because I, I feel like they're not being honest with the numbers or there's a lack of transparency, I think. And granted, it's entertainment, but still for the uninformed. They come in and they see these shows and they're like, oh, those are all the costs and expenses. Cool. This is easy. They don't see it all. So what do you see?

Okay, so we had no idea what we were getting in for. Literally. After we filmed our sizzle, which was only a six minute long tape of us renovating houses and whatever, like six months later, we got a phone call like, hey, A and E just bought you guys. They're totally into it. We'll be there in three weeks. Like, get some houses lined up. We were like, oh, like, okay, okay. Like, okay, see you guys in a couple weeks. And essentially, you're right, man. It is entertainment. But as far as, like, reality goes, like any. And I can only speak for our show. I don't know the other people on the other shows and I don't know the other people on other networks, but as far as we go and our relationship with like A and E and FYI, all of the money is ours. Like, they don't help us out a dollar with buying property, they don't provide property, and they don't handle our renovation cost. So every single dollar that goes into one of our properties is either me, Keith, Duke, or Ashley's, or a mixture of the four, which is usually scenarios like that. And as far as, like, the entertainment goes, man, like, nobody wants to watch us do our jobs right, you know, Like, I'm sure I could renovate a house and not have anything bad happen, but I would much rather make a Federal Pacific panel explode, catch on fire, and then be like, oh, no, look at this. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would, of course I could just re plumb the house, but wouldn't it be way funnier if we destroyed all the poly B inside of it and flooded it? You know what I'm saying? Like, nobody wants to watch me do my job correctly, so. But they do want to watch me and Marley stomp around a flooded house fucking looking like idiots. So we're just having fun. We're just trying to give America something entertaining to watch. And honestly, it's like me and my friends, dude. So like, if me and my friends get to slam sledgehammers into plumbing and flood a house. Like, I'm stoked on that because, like, I would have never imagined that me, me and three of my friends that lived on the same block would somehow have a TV show that is now playing and 44 countries. That's crazy. That, like, still blows my mind that people want to watch us be knuckleheads, like, because that's all we are, dude. We're just a bunch of goofballs having fun. So I don't, like, you know, it's entertainment. But as far as, like, the cash goes and like, are we actors that who are just like, no, that's not the scenario. We are using 100% our funds, and the only thing that our numbers are correct for the most part. So, like, if I have a house under contract, which is like a scenario, this is a prime scenario. Because yesterday I had to do the sound bite that is like the numbers on the house where you're like, we bought this house for 115,000. We sold it for 250. I told them what I have the house under contract for, which is 250, and it should close. The people are super qualified, but their loan doesn't close in time. That the episode has to close because the episodes come on air in a month and their closing isn't for two months. So, you know, there could be scenarios where if they back out of the contract last minute and I sell it for a little less that the numbers would be off. But as far as, like, providing honest numbers, that's what we do. They just don't want to include closing costs in the numbers for some reason. But if anybody wants to actually guesstimate those, you know, usually figure 7% on the back end or closing costs. So just minus that from our profits and that's what we actually made. But other than that, all the numbers are real or as close as I can provide in the time period I'm given to being real.

Cool. That's cool. Awesome.

Well, hey, let's move on and wrap up the show with what we lovingly call our world famous famous four. These are the same four questions we ask every single guest. I'm sure you know what's coming, but let's hit them anyway. Number one, what is your favorite real estate related book?

Okay, so I have thought long and hard about this answer and I think that every single person on the 200 podcast have provided all the books that anybody could possibly need to read about real estate. So what I'm going to say is that there were no books that helped Me get to where I am. All it really was was me talking to every single person I could get FaceTime with and going to the RIA meetings, talking to anybody I saw. I would drive by houses that people were renovating, and I would pull in and be like, hey, what are you guys doing? Who owns this place? Who's doing the construction? Like, that is the hustle that I want people to know. Like, people my age or younger that are out there. Like, how do I get into real estate? What do I need to do? You need to go out there and you need to pound the pavement. You need to go find a mentor. And I don't care if you have to ask a thousand people. I have probably been through, I don't even know, man. The networking events I've attended, the thousands of people I've talked to, and I've maybe had four mentors that have really changed my life. So, yeah, you're gonna have to ask 300 people until you finally find somebody that's, like, willing to take you a little under their wing. But so what? That's the cost that you pay to be a hustler in America. America rewards the persistent. And I want everybody to know that if you want to make it in real estate, you just keep on swinging, man. You can either get down on your knees and be bummed that the world didn't give you everything you wanted, or you can keep swinging and fight yourself out of that corner. And that's what I did. And that's why I suggest everybody else that's hungry should get out there and do.

I love it.

So Justin for President.

That's the title of the book. It comes out.

It's called this is the Longest Fricking Title Ever. Is that what we're dealing with?

That was good. That's good, good advice. All right, number two.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. All right, so next question. Is favorite business book?

Any. Any.

Any business book that gets you going?

Yeah. I mean, I gotta tell you guys, I really have enjoyed the biggerpockets books. You know, Like, I didn't necessarily need to read J. Scott's book on flipping houses, because by the time that I read it, I had probably done 99 renovations. But I really did like the order that he talked about, like, you know, starting this series of roughing before he goes into, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I like the order. And also, I liked your book on no and Low Money down because, like, financing, like, creative financing fascinates me because I remember the first, like, big Wholesale transaction I did where I had not a dollar involved in it. I made $80,000 on this fee one time and I was so young and I was like, holy crap. Like I just created wealth. This is what they mean when they say creating wealth. Like I just made nothing, something out of nothing. And I've just been fascinated on like how you were able to buy an apartment complex like with a couple of other people's cash and just like a good note and like a good plan. So I love your book on creative financing. Creative financing is something that's super interesting to me. Right before this podcast I just got done negotiating a deal with somebody who has cash that wants to get involved in real estate but doesn't want to do the work. And they're gonna give me 250 grand to buy this off market deal where the sellers just wanna be done with it and go retire somewhere. And it's like a win win for everybody. Like I'm gonna be able to renovate a house with having almost no money into it and these people are gonna be able to get cash and go retire cause they're like 65 years old. So that's like creativity. And that was just like me putting one person in place and having another person in place and being able to create. And that's fascinating. And real estate is like one of the only vehicles where you can have no education, you can just have nothing and somehow, one way or another, just create it into whatever you want it to be. And that's America in a nutshell. And that's why I love.

All right, we got a blade to this because I am completely out of time here. So what do you do for fun, Justin?

Dude, I hang out with Marley man. We like to have a lot of fun. We paddle board a lot. Orlando's got a ton of lakes. I'm opening a beer brewery right now. So that is on the docket. And I just started a clothing line called Highest and Best. That's like for real estate professionals who like don't want to wear name tags. Like it's, it's like a shirt you'd wear to the bar, you know what I'm saying? Or things like that. So I'm having a lot of fun with that because we're like getting a lot of influence from like old punk rock and like hardcore band shirts and like old traditional tattoo influence. So, so kind of having fun with that. Like me and my friends in my office who are like actually my friends in real life, we'll sit around at the end of the day and just, like, crack a beer and, like, try to think of funny real estate terms. I mean, like, the name of the company alone, like, I think is funny. Like, highest and best. Like.

Yeah.

Because I don't know. Yeah. It's just things like that. I just tried to create, dude. Nowadays, I just tried to create. Whether it's creating jobs or whether it's, like, creating art. That's what I'm into. That's what makes me happy. Oh, and I also just signed up for. I started doing Best buddies of America. So I have, like, an autistic best buddy that I'm super excited to become close with. So right now, I feel like it's my turn to give back. Life has been really cool to me. You know, I fought the good fight and was broke for so many years. Just keep swinging. And now it's all come back full circle. So now it's my time to give back. Last year, I offered free mentoring for anybody who wanted it. This year, I've taken on a couple other people. I'm just trying to help. Helping makes me feel good. Dude, that's, like, what gives me butterflies in my stomach. That's what puts a smile on my face. Whether it's just telling a joke to somebody who looks like they're having a bad day or it's getting somebody a paycheck. Nowadays, I just want to create and, you know, fight the good fight, dude. That's what we're doing. I'm gonna get it tattooed on me.

Hello? Yeah, for sure.

All right, last question. My last question of the day. Justin, what do you believe sets apart successful investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

Persistence. Hundred percent. I am so such a believer that America rewards to persistent. I mean, dude, we've got people who have made. Justin Bieber made $200 million last year, and he started on YouTube. YouTube. There are so many people that are just creating wealth over creating themselves. And anybody who wants to give up, like, okay, so be it. That's, like, one less person we're gonna have to compete against. But that sucks, because that's not the mentality you should have. If you want to change your life and become free, then you got to just keep swinging. Be persistent. America will eventually reward you. If you have a good heart and you protect your reputation with your life, you will make it. Eventually, you'll have a couple deals under your belt. And once you have a couple deals, man, that's the hardest part. The hardest part is just getting those couple deals so just keep swinging. Keep swinging. I promise. You can do this. I know you. You've made it this far. You made it this far to the Bigger Pockets podcast. You're halfway there. My dad always tell me half the job was just showing up, and I think that pertains to everything.

Perfect. All right, man, last question. Where can people find out more about you? How can they reach out to you, obviously.

And where the clothing line at?

Oh, cool. Okay, so. Oh, also, there's a Bigger Pockets code for the website is Highest and Best clothing dot com. And use the code biggerpockets. It's 10% off anything you guys want. So go get yourself some cool real estate swag. And then on Twitter, my Twitter is Justin Stamper. On Instagram, it is Flip Orlando. That's F L I P Orlando. And then justinstamper.com or blueprint real estategroup.com or just bigger Pockets. You guys can find me. Just hit Google. Just Google Justin Stamper. You will find one way to find me and shoot me an email, because I love talking to people. I like to try to help out as much as I can. And if you guys have questions or just want to talk shop or whatever, hit me up. I'm always down to talk to America. I love America. That's who I'm doing this for. So come, come holler at me.

Justin, thanks so much for coming on the show, man. We really do appreciate it.

Yeah, man, thanks so much for having me. This has been a rock and roll.

It's been fun.

Sure.

All right, we'll see you around the site.

All right, guys, that was Justin Stamper. Big thanks to Justin for coming on the show.

Wow.

Yeah. That was energy.

Yeah, he's got a lot of energy. He's got a lot of good things to say. He is fighting the good.

Fighting the good fight is what he said.

He is very punk rock. I can see it. He's. Yeah, he's like old school punk rock. Not like, you know, Simple Plan punk rock, but more like, I don't know, the Clash. Punk rock is what he.

Here's what I like about him also. Like, he said he's a. He's got a TV show, right? Big audience, and he's not out there like, hey, I'm going to go be a guru now. Yeah, right?

Yeah.

Hey, I. I'm punk rock. I'm doing it. I'm making moves. Like. That was cool.

Yeah. After we were done recording, he was telling me. He's like. He's like, I just. I can't I can't envision that life of like taking grandma's $10,000, you know, because you know of some real estate seminar where max out your credit card and he's like, he's like, that's the guy I'm fighting against. That's the, that's the fight we're fighting the good fight against. And I just love that mentality of, you know, like, let's not take advantage of people, let's help people. Let's be out there and do this together. It's very, very bigger pockets.

Yeah. And that's what we, we push forward to people.

Right.

Like in your business, you know, don't do a crappy job on a rehab, you know, and hope that the next, the guy who buys the property, you know, doesn't notice, you know, your, your work, to be frank, I mean, like, do quality work, do a good job, you know, treat people well.

Yeah, I agree.

By doing that, he had talked about reputation, you know, my reputation is worth everything. Right. And I believe that. And I think we believe that philosophically from bigger pockets, your reputation matters. It will determine your success in the future. If you just kind of take advantage of people, you know, you more likely than not, will not succeed. Although there's obviously examples of that happening. But more likely than not, the guy who's doing quality work is going to be the one who's successful. So we definitely press that upon you. But yeah, it was great. A lot of fun, interesting show. I love the, A lot of people shy away from auctions. I do love the idea of at the very least, even if you're never going to do it, showing up at the door and witnessing what happens at an auction.

Yep.

And I love that common theme he had throughout the entire, the entire hour long conversation was like, I found people who I could connect with, learn from and then I latched onto them and like, I was like their, you know, their guy. Like I was delivering materials from Home Depot. Like, I mean, that's hustle right there. And like every old investor that I know, and by old I just mean older than me. Right. Like, they love to have younger people come up and be like, I want to help you out. What can I do? Like to show that passion. And so if you're just starting out, you know, take a page from Justin's book and get out there and go and latch onto somebody who's more successful than you are.

Awesome, awesome. Cool, man. Well, listen, great time, Good show. I am sorry that little Rosie is not feeling so well. Hopefully ear infection Recovery. Yeah, it happens. Yeah, man. But you guys, thank you for listening. This is show201 on the BiggerPockets podcast. You can make sure to check out the show notes@biggerpockets.com Show 201. Sync up with Justin over there, ask any questions, get any links that we talked about and things like that. Otherwise, please spread the word, share the show, jump on Facebook, tell people, hey, this show is amazing. I love it. Check it out. Tell your people.

You want people to lie.

Okay? This show was amazing. If they got rid of Brandon.

Okay, there, that's better. That's better. Let's be honest here. Let's be honest here.

Now spread the word, guys. Help us, Help us get the word out. And we definitely thank you for participating, for listening and 201.

Man.

Here we are. We're on our way to 300.

March into 300. There we go.

Yes. All right, Brandon, till next week, let's do this.

All right.

For the Bigger Pockets podcast, this is.

Brandon and your host Josh Dworkin signing off.

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