232: The Four Lead Sources Nathan Brooks is Using to Flip 120 Houses a Year

This is The BiggerPockets podcast show 2:32.

It's all about relationships. So for us, I've continually worked on and our whole team works on establishing relationships with real estate agents, establishing relationships with other local real estate investors, establishing relationships with wholesalers in our market. So there's a lot of different places you can get those properties.

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What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dworkin, host of the Biggerpockets podcast, here with my co host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, man?

Dude. What's going on?

Dude? Sweet dude.

Sweet, sweet, sweet dude.

Yes. How are you?

I'm good. I'm good. I'm glad you've seen Dude Rose, my car.

Oh, it was amazing.

Yeah, it's a great movie anyway.

Best movie ever.

I. I don't know if I go that far, but let's calm down.

I definitely wouldn't go that far. All right.

I've been good. I've been busy. I've been doing a father's day rehab, thanks to you. You too. You.

You're.

You're a dad, too, so good job. Are you a grandpa yet? You're close.

Wow.

Really?

You're the oldest.

Threatened violence, but if you ever suggest such a thing, my children, you're going to find you.

Is that weird that someday you're going to be like a grandpa? Your little sweet little girls are going to be all like, grown up and out of the house. The other day I really. I know. I read this book. I read this book and it was.

Called, like, you're a terrible person.

Listen, it was like, it was called like, your last time or something like that. And it was all about, like, someday it'll be the last time you hold your little baby. It'll be the last time they swing a baseball bat. I seriously started, like, just crying reading this book. Like, my girl's a year old. Anyway, I'm tearing up right now.

Yeah, my. My eight year old doesn't, like, let me read to her. She doesn't sing. You know, there's all sorts of. You know, I want to do it on my own. All right. Get lost, dad. Oh, come on.

Oh, it's so hard growing up. Anyway.

Wow.

We got really deep and sat here.

But yeah, we did. This is a fantastic.

Today's show is so good. It's so good. If you guys are struggling with finding deals today, listen to all. Like, this is like an hour and a half long show. It's gonna blow your mind. There's so much good stuff in here. Especially like the topic on leadership we get into later in the conversation. Unbelievable. Nathan's just a really good guy. So we'll get to that in a minute.

He's great. He's great. And in the show, we'll. We'll kind of get into this. But Nathan's been on the show before show 87 and 159. So if you haven't checked those out, go to biggerpockets.com show87, biggerpockets.com show159. Or you consume it. Just look for those episodes before you get into this one if you want to dig in. But before we get into today's show, we've got today's.

All right, so today's quick tip is something that I actually just built or worked on yesterday for myself. So we all know driving for dollars is a good way to find deals. Get in your car, drive around and. Well, maybe we don't all know that, but most people know that's a pretty good way to find vacant houses. Drive around and you're like, hey, that house looks vacant. And then you write it down, you go home and research it and contact the owner. The problem is I feel like when I'm just randomly driving around, I stumble across these houses and I'm like, oh, I should contact the owner. But it's like, I don't have a paper and pen handy and, like, I'm not going to, like, do all this weird stuff. And even, like, texting and driving, it all gets weird, right? So what I figured out yesterday is this. There's a site called if this, then that. It's if tt.com and it's a. I mean, they have a paid version, but it's a free service that enables you to do, like, if something happens, do something else. So here's what I did. I set it up so that.

Get an email from Brandon, respond back, leave me the hell alone.

Yeah, you could do that. You could do.

Yeah, you could do whatever.

You do that. That's why I get those messages every day from you, like 20 times.

All right?

So I set it up so if I text a certain phone number, it will add a line in a spreadsheet I have on Google Sheets. So basically now all I have to do is take my phone and say, hey, Siri, text driving for dollars. 55 Ridge Lane.

Driving for dollar says 55 Ridge there. And so then I send it and.

Goes off to my Google Sheet and I don't have to have any notes or anything. And then later on I have like the spreadsheet in Google Sheets that'll just keep track of it. Anyway, that was a not so quick.

Tip, but I love that. I'm going to see how I could play with if this, then that Using Siri to text. That's. That's very, very clever. You should write that up.

I will make a blog post about that.

I'll put it out. Good, good, good. All right. Hey, before we move on, guys, I do have two quick announcements that I'm required to provide to you.

You require. Your boss made you.

My boss made me do it. All right, guys. We here at BiggerPockets are looking for two new employees for the company we're hiring. So first is a UI engineer. We used to call them front end designers, front end engineers. We're looking for somebody to focus on the front end development of bigger pockets. Someone who is able to combine art design with the art of programming. You're perfect for this job if you have a strong passion for providing quality design and experience for users. As a front end position at bp, a great opportunity, you could come sit here in the office, work every day with all these amazing people. Experience in REACT is a plus. And we are definitively looking for somebody in Denver. But if you're not in Denver and you're fantastic, you should apply anyway. And jobsiggerpockets.com would be where you would send your cover letter and resume. The next one is publishing coordinator. So we're looking for somebody with an entrepreneurial spirit to oversee the growth and operation of our publishing business. If you love real estate and understand the elements that make up a good book, then this position is for you. If you like to roll up your sleeves, hustle, expand the reach of BiggerPockets Publishing while simultaneously finding opportunities for new books. We're looking for you. If you like to read, if you're awesome at writing, if you're awesome at books, we're looking for somebody amazing to take over our publishing business and help lead it to the next level.

You read that wrong, by the way. You know, it does say food book. Yeah, it says elements that make up a food book, not a good book. So, yes, which we are publishing food books.

A new publisher. Because clearly. Brandon I did not write that.

I did not write that. I don't know.

I think Mindy might have rushed. It.

Was Anyway, job openings, guys. We're looking. We're hiring. Go to biggerpockets.com jobs to find out more, go to jobsiggerpockets.com as an email to apply thank you very much.

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Let's get to today's show. Today's guest is Nathan Brooks. You want to introduce him, Josh?

I do. I think that would be great. Thank you for allowing me to do that. Nathan Brooks.

I allow him. A gracious guy.

It's not true what they say, a fantastic guy. Nathan Brooks is a real estate investor out in the Kansas City market. He's been in real estate for 10 years now. Started doing a few flips and a few rentals. Crashed and burned with the downturn in the early 2000s, and then steadily, steadily started to bring things back. You know, worked through these difficulties and overcame them and the challenges to go and scale his business. Today, he's doing, he says, 120 flips this year. He's got a turnkey rental property company, and those deals come from the flips that he does. And he's really, really bright guy, doing some awesome stuff. So let's bring him in. Nathan Brooks, why on earth are you back here on the BiggerPockets podcast? My Lord. What are they doing, Josh?

I don't know, man. I mean, all of a sudden, it's like, you know, once a year we have this date, and it's, you know, Josh and Brandon, and we're talking about beards and no beards. I don't know.

It's great. I'm super excited to have you, man. I'm super excited.

I actually think your beard has gotten smaller every. Every time we've had you on. Because I remember the first time we had you on, it was like a foot long. And then it, you know, it was.

A couple inches thicker, though. I mean, that thing is like, literally, you. You couldn't find skin underneath it if.

Yeah, it's just how it's made, you know, a little miracle grow here, little miracle there.

There you go.

Problem solved.

I like it. I like it. Well, it's a little more manly than mine, you know, but, you know, that's all right. I'm not comparing. So let's talk about.

You're getting there.

Thank you.

Let's talk about what you've been up to, actually, before we go, what you've been up to. I mean, I'm assuming that half the people listen to the show have not heard the other two episodes with you. So pause this. Go back and listen to two episodes with Nathan or just keep listening to listen after. But for those people, give us a quick recap. Who are you? How did you get into real estate? Kind of walk us through your journey in the next, like, half hour. I'm just kidding. Yeah, like two minutes go.

And as we mentioned, it was show 87 and 159 of the BiggerPockets podcast. You can find it@biggerpockets.com show 87 biggerpockets.com show 159 or just look for it on itunes or anywhere else.

Thank you, Vanna White. All right, wow.

Let's go next.

And thank you again for having me on. And it's pretty cool to have this opportunity with you guys again.

There's only a few. Three people. I think we only have, like, two or three. Three Peters.

I believe Chris was number three, and I believe I am number four.

Three Peter. All right.

They're all watching each other. Yeah. Nobody's paying attention at all.

Nobody's been a full Peter yet, so.

That's right. So I started in real estate, you know, about 10 years ago, and we started acquiring properties, both doing some flips and doing some rentals. And over the course of a couple of years, years, we rode the crash down and crashed and burned and basically lost everything in that time. And we just had some decisions to make whether we wanted to get back after it or not. So my wife and I chose that we were going to get back into it. And so slowly but surely, we did one or two. And then we added some more rentals, and then we started doing some more flips and joint venture kind of stuff. Fast Forward here to2016. We did roughly, I think, 64 properties last year. And this year we're on pace to flip well over 100.

This is 2017. Correct. Just making sure.

All right, so you've scaled the hell out of this thing. I mean, this is everyone who wants to be a real estate magnate's dream, right? How do I go from buying that first one and getting through all the fear of doing that, overcoming that, getting the next one, figuring out a strategy and then growing? And I think you mentioned earlier you've now got 34, 33. 34, 35 employees. You're about to flip 120 houses this year. I mean, that's spectacular. That's spectacular. So we want to kind of dive in a little bit on a few things on, you know, how are you finding all those deals? We're going to talk about, like, you know, management of people, what works, what doesn't work, Just all The other kind of mindset. So let's start at that. Finding deals. You know, to flip 120 houses means you have to buy what I have. What is that? A house every three days. So you're buying and turning a house, give or take, on average every three days. That, that requires ridiculous systems and we'll dive into that afterwards. But like, what do you, what are you looking for? How do you come across all these properties?

You know, So I think the first question is what is the end result? So if you can start with the end result of what that property is going to do, then actually you should.

Answer the question I asked instead of asking the question. This is my show, dude. What are you doing?

Well, I think by answering your question, I can ask a different question first, which is what am I trying to get in order to answer what kind of property I'm trying to get.

Beautiful.

Which was a great question. Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

And I'm really proud of you for that. Great question.

So I think that you have to start with what that is. So first of all, for us on the flip side of our business, we flip to turnkey. So we sell the turnkey properties and clients, you know, buy those and we put a tenant in them and then we, we manage for them. So, okay, well, what constitutes a great, you know, rental property can I build in? The cost of what, my repairs and my rehab and that kind of thing. And the way that we rehab. So it's one thing to do, you know, carpet and pain and it's another thing for us to do a full scale rehab. So I can't go in without having a good amount of margin in that to do my rehab. And then secondly, MLS wise, so what is the value? I typically run the higher end of the market, arv. So I don't want to be kind of price lower end. I want to be priced higher end. And we do our finishes and we do our. We're approaching in that way where we're going to maximize the amount of value that we can get out of the property by setting the conditions such as better finishes and really particular about the neighborhood.

Makes sense.

Did you answer my question?

Okay, so do you mean specifically as we are looking at a deal?

Sure.

What? What?

All right. Seriously? Yeah, so I'm talking about like very specific and that's great. And that's your position, right? You guys are finding properties, you're putting them at the top end of the spectrum. Sounds like you're doing him in probably middle class, you know, white Collar, give or take, neighborhoods. Is that about right? Okay.

Yes.

Okay. So to find 120 deals, you have to do something, right? To find.

It's all about relationships. It's all about relationships. So for us, we, I've continually worked on, and our whole team works on establishing relationships with real estate agents, establishing relationships with other local real estate investors, establishing relationships with wholesalers in our market, and then other great Internet marketing type people who produce those type of leads but are not in the market. There's a lot of different places you can get those properties. Then I think the key for that has been we're speedy that. So if a wholesaler sends us a deal, we're able to actually look at it quickly, we're able to make an offer quickly, we're able to close quickly. And so when we're looking, we haven't just looked in one area, whether that would be, you know, direct seller marketing, which we're going to start, you know, working on as well. But we, we have just taken the approach of saying, let's build the relationship. They're going to bring us the deal, we're going to look at it and then have the result.

Okay, that's awesome. And so what I'd like to do, you mentioned agents, investors, marketers and wholesalers as kind of your four sources. What percentage of your deals are coming from relationships? Is it 100%?

I don't know if it's 100%, but I mean, it's 95%.

All right, cool. So what I want to do is just talk about each. Right. So your agents, how are you working with the agents? How are you finding good agents to work with and what is that relationship like? Because, you know, you talk to a lot of agents, they're like, oh, I don't want to work with investors. Investors, a bunch of scumbags, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Then there's the ones who are like, they get it, right? They recognize that if they work with you, if they can source deals for you, they're going to get a lot of business. You don't have to keep shopping. I, as an agent, find Nathan Brooks. I got somebody who I can get business from all day long, which is beautiful. Right. So how do you find that agent who can provide you with what it is that you're looking for?

Well, I think you have to be able to first speak the language and say, you know, if you're that retail buyer's agent driving people around, that's probably not the agent that you're looking for. That's a very different job, very different opportunity versus somebody who we've spent the time to say, hey, this is what I'm looking for on one deal. So I find a listing. It looks interesting. It's in the ballpark of what I think I can do. Because the last thing you want to do is call up somebody for the first time and say, hey, I know you're listed at $100,000, but I'm going to write a $50,000 offer and go work both sides. And, oh, by the way, I'm the best thing ever. They're going to just think you're full of it, and they're not going to work with you. But for us, we say, hey, I tell you what, you got it listed at 100. I think I can actually do $94,242, and that's my best offer. And it's cash. And, you know, and here's all the details of our offer. And what questions do you have for me about my offer? Does that make sense? Do you understand why? And then they can go to bat for their. To their seller and say, hey, this guy's a legit investor in our market. They do a lot of business. And I talk to their, you know, title company. They always close when they say they're going to close. And so we build a relationship from the back end of it to say, you might have a hundred investors in here and get all these offers, but that doesn't mean any of them can close.

Yeah, that's great.

Then they have the confidence in us when we make that offer and be.

Able to move it forward.

Yeah, I like that. So what about somebody who's brand new? You know, a lot of new investors worry about, I can't find an agent because I don't have a track record. I'm just going to look like I came out of some guru boot camp, and I'm all excited. I'm gonna be gone next week. How do I, as a new investor, how do I convince an agent to come work with me?

I think it's just starting with the one. And again, we talked about it, and I didn't answer your question, so I apologize. But, you know, you have to know what you're looking for first. Right.

If you have some agent, you just keep looking at houses, and you may or may not make offers, but you're not really actually getting anything under contract. Nobody's going to want to work with you, because they don't. Nobody wants to work for free.

Yeah.

So if, you know what you're looking for. And you can say this is the range or this is the neighborhood, or this is what I want, or you know, get a partner that's done it before and knows what areas and has some relationships so they can, they can, you know, you're not just trying to learn everything on your own in this day and age, bigger pockets and books and all kinds of stuff that you can, you can get more than just that information. You can have somebody who can actually introduce you and make relationships. But you know, I think it's a part, that part knowing what you want and then part just making sure that you actually tell them what you're doing. Hey, my name is Nathan Brooks. I'm a first time real estate investor. This is what my plan is. This is the price range. I'm not here to waste your time. Here's my pre approval. I'm ready to go.

I love that.

I love, I love having it.

Yeah, a lot of agents get irritated because they don't want to go make offers, work this big, huge process, this deal, and then at the end of the day, not being able to close. Right. Like that's the biggest irritation for an agent. They put in 20 hours of work for nothing.

Right.

So you just gotta convince them that you are ready to go. And if you're not ready to go, go find a partner who is. Like you said, I think that's fantastic advice.

Well, and the other thing on the wholesaler side, you know, I can't tell you the number of deals we've gotten where somebody else wrote an offer that was say 2 to 4,000 higher than ours. And then I got a call four days before closing and they're panicked because, you know, Joe Schmo, you know, buyer backed out because they didn't have their. They didn't have it together.

Yeah, yep.

And so then we come back in and we're like, well, hey, I tell you what, it was, you know, 4,000 off and now it's, you know, 6,000 off or whatever it is. And. But we can close in three days. Sure, no problem.

You are mean.

Tell me. Grand. I didn't ask for 10.

No, I like the advice you're about being specific to. I mean, imagine you're an agent or, you know, if I was an agent, somebody came to me and said, brandon, I want to invest in real estate. I look for any property. If it makes a good deal, I'd be like, good for you. But if you're like, hey, Brandon, I'm looking for a two to four unit property under $150,000. And I got financing lined up for that. What do you got? All of a sudden then I'm like, what do I have? Let me do that search for you. Like, then I'm. I'm engaged in the conversation. I'm like, they've done their homework. They know what they're doing. I think just doing your homework is, like, the best way to get an agent to. To work with you.

Well, not only did we do that, but we took it a step further for our business, where we actually had the buyer info sheet for us for Bridge. So it literally says, hi, my name's Nathan Brooks. This is Bridge. This is what we buy. This is the area we buy. We're cash. Here's our proof of funds.

Go.

So there's not even a question. And they're not wondering about what we'll buy either. We already wrote it out. So we gave them specific detail. Price point, beds and baths, square footage, everything. And all they have to do is fit it in that criteria.

Yep.

This is amazing. This is amazing. So now I walk up to an agent or I find them on bigger pockets, I find them somewhere else and they don't have to worry. I mean, they may worry. Look, hey, I've got $3,000 in the bank. Oh, you're going to be worried. Hey, I can get approval for, you know, 72,000, but every property in the market is 100. Even dilapidated, you know there's going to be a problem. So you got to come in and actually make sure that you've got your stuff ready, your ducks in a row in order to actually do the deal. But it's fantastic. So any tips before we move on to investors, other investors, how to find these guys? Getting your ducks in a row, being organized is a great way to lock them in. But do you just, like, jump on bp, look for local agents and do that? Do you ask other investors for referrals? Do investors like to refer agents to other investors? What advice do you have on that?

I think for me personally, it's been all about making the direct relationship. Because if I am reaching out to some, when that could be on bigger pockets, that could be on Craigslist, that could be on just searching your mls. But if you don't pick up the phone, which. Who does that anymore these days? Right?

Yeah.

So I will. Even today, I'll pick up the phone and say, hey, this is Nathan Brooks, and I'll send an email first. So here's my buying criteria. This is my name, this is what we do, and then I'll make a phone call and I'll just let them know. Hey, I'm Nathan. This. This property at 123 Main Street. I'm really interested in. This is the ballpark of where my offer would be. Does that sound like it might work? Not like, will you write up an offer for me? But do you think we can make that work? And then by asking the question, do you think I make that work? Then they have to say they're trying to figure out automatically, how do I. How do I make this work for you?

So you're suggesting. You're actually suggesting you go the next step. Because the average person would go find an agent and say, here's my criteria. What you're saying is you're doing the work. You're digging around on whether it's Redfin or Zillow or Realtor to find a deal, and you're doing the comps. You're doing the math on your own. You're then going to an agent saying, this is a property I want. You don't have to take me to 38 properties. This is the property I want. This is. These are the numbers I'm thinking about. What do you think? And based on that reaction, you can actually judge them. Right. Because if they're like, oh, you're crazy, investor, get out of here. Or if they're like, oh, yeah, that's reasonable. That makes sense. Cool. Maybe now you have an opportunity to work with somebody who gets it.

Yes. So you have the opportunity on the one deal. Right. So you gave them the criteria that you're looking for. And then can we write this up? And, oh, by the way, hey, don't worry. Take both sides of this thing. So instead of 3%, 6%, and then we're able to say from here, do you work with investors? If not. Okay, cool. Well, these are some of the things I'm looking for. Oh, where do you buy? Oh, cool. Well, here's my info sheet. Here's our proof of funds. And anytime you run across something like this, put me first in your phone, we'll have an offer to you, usually within the same day. A lot of times within a few hours.

And then we close. Right. So if we put that deal together. But I think there's a few of the relationships. And everybody talks about the 8020 principle. Right. So 8020 principle, for whatever it is, There's a few Realtor relationships that I have that continually produce the results. And so it's not to say I won't call A new realtor. But then once you've trained those realtors on this is what I'm looking for, then they start sending you the deals that they see because they think that that might be a good fit for you.

That's awesome. Really, really, really good advice. All right, so next on the list were other investors. So you said you get deals from other investors. How are you doing that?

I love this. So I will. I. I try to build. Visually.

It's awesome.

Great, isn't this. This is a great show. Like, what more do you want, man? What do you want? You got Josh, the other guy, and Nathan Brooks. It's. It's amazing.

I just love talking real estate, you know? Don't worry. The beard's great, too. Okay. The beer is great, too. It's just fun. It's. It's a blessing to be able to talk about this kind of stuff, you know? So.

I think when you start thinking about, like, let's say, for instance, if Brandon was in my market, right? So, hey, Brandon, just so you know, we have the capacity to buy two more deals this week. If you have anything going on, just let me know. Not, like, can you give me some deals?

Then I sound like I'm. I'm either desperate or, you know, I'm not sure what I'm doing. So we've started to talk about that with other investors and multiple guys who maybe just don't have the capacity or. Because we've started to bring our construction in house, so I might be able to actually buy it a little higher. And I've even started training and asking the wholesalers that we work with to say, hey, if you can't make that work at the wholesale number, call me first before you just pass up the deal. Even if we can give you a thousand bucks or 2,000 bucks for it, and you just assign me the contract or we go direct to the seller or whatever that looks like we might still be able to make it work.

That's cool. You know, last week I closed on a deal, and two weeks ago, I, you know, got the deal. And the way I got it was calling up an investor I knew who was one of the larger flippers in my area. And he's doing five flips right now at the same time, he said. And one of them was a little bit more work than he wanted to do. So I said, hey, you know, I'm just looking for something. I need to close on something the next week. He said, sure, I got this one deal. Go check it out. I looked at It. It was great. Like, I got it from him. Like, I wasn't a wholesaler. It wasn't. I mean, he actually owned the house at that point. He bought it with cash, and it was just sitting there waiting to work on. And it was in his pipeline. He'll get to it later. And so I helped him out. He actually still made, like, I think 15 grand on the deal, but he never did anything to it. It was just sitting in his portfolio, you know, so it was perfect.

We've done that probably. I mean, I bet you once a week at least we've been doing that. Just people who have them sit in their portfolio, like you said, or they're just sitting in inventory and they don't have the capacity on the construction side, so why not it be a win? And they make a little money now and we have another deal to put in our pipeline.

And I love that. I don't think I've ever heard anybody saying that here on the podcast before, talking about the strategy, but I think it's fantastic.

That's great.

Very cool.

All right, so.

That'S how you do it. And the way you find those investors again, BP is obviously a resource. There's local real estate groups and clubs.

How would you. How do you find out about local events in your area? I don't even know.

Oh, oh, perhaps biggerpockets.com events.

Oh, my gosh.

That's how we do it.

That's how you do it now. But, Josh, there is no event in my area. What am I going to do? I just watch some tv.

Yeah, you should. And, you know, sit back and then wonder for the rest of your life what my life would have been like had I. Yep, that's what I'm going to do. Is that. Yeah, okay.

No.

Or you can say, you know what? I'm going to take action today. I am going to create a group. I am going to become the hub of investors in my area. I am going to now become a resource. And by the way, I don't actually need to know that much about real estate in order to do this. And I can now become the hub. I can become the resource. I could bring people together. And by doing that, people are going to look to me as a leader, even though I have very little experience. And now I can get access to other investors and. Yes. So start your own group if there is not one in your area, obviously.

That was really good. That was really good.

Have you been rehearsing that for a while?

What?

It's almost like you're seeing that.

Yeah.

What?

The elevator speech.

That was really nice. For those who don't know, who haven't.

Listened to the show, I just started doing this.

By the way, Josh used to be an actor. Actually, he was in Hollywood and used to do the acting thing, you know, Weren't you on SNL once?

Right. You were on Saturday.

Yeah. You were playing basketball with Jerry Seinfeld. Wasn't that right? We'll see if we can dig up that clip.

This is. This is completely and utterly.

This is.

This is ridiculous, this conversation. And I refuse to partake in your smearing.

This is not smearing. This is a true thing. I'm going to find the clip.

Fact finding, mystery. Yeah.

Yes, this is true.

Yeah, that's what I thought. All right, so. But we're not talking about Josh today. I know. It's always about Josh. Every week. All about Josh.

Let's talk about wholesalers, because we talked about general investors. Wholesalers are obviously in the investing broad bucket. There's. But what is different about finding deals from wholesalers? What do you need to look out for when getting deals from wholesalers? What do you need to do to get deals from wholesalers?

Well, I think it really comes back to a lot of the things we already talked about, which is build a relationship. If you put something under contract, you have to close. Well, you don't have to close, obviously, if there's something terrible going on in the deal, you shouldn't do that. But know how to do your homework. Be speedy, be honest. And so for us, in our market, with the wholesalers we work with, there's a handful of people who bring deals on a regular basis that we built that relationship with, and people on my staff, too, who help make their life easier. So as opposed to, you know, asking everything of the wholesaler, we'll say, hey, cool, just send the contract over, we'll handle it. Oh, escrow. Don't worry about it. We already handled that with our coordinator on staff. They'll take care of it. And so by where's the add value? Where again, I might pay a few thousand dollars less, but I bring a whole lot more value in the way that we're able to operate or the way that we're able to close the deal.

Got it. All right, so how do I know? You know, you're Nathan Brooks, right? You're a legend in your own mind. You do 120 deals a year.

How do you, as a new investor, know whether this wholesaler is trying to pull, you know, pull something on you, how do you, how do you do that? How do you figure it out?

Back to the first conversation, which is what? What's my end goal? What can I pay? What area do I buy in? So don't just go try to buy any house. If you don't know the area and you're a first time investor, you want to make sure that you limit, absolutely mitigate as much risk as possible. So this is the area I buy in, this is the price point I buy in. And maybe you actually have that realtor relationship who helps you run comps. So I do my own comps. But if you're just starting out, you want to have the people who are kind of that backstop for you, who are playing some defense and also asking you those important questions like do you really understand what you're getting into? Don't jump into $100,000 flip on your first deal. That's nuts. Go hit a single, find a deal that's as simple as possible, that makes sense and you can make money and also understand what is actually happening in that deal and have a clear scope and a budget and a contractor that you trust when you're going into it. So you mitigate as much as those risks before you close on that deal versus once you're in the middle of it and trying to figure that out.

Yeah. And just for everybody listening, Nathan is in the Kansas City area. So when he says $100,000 deal, that's nut. For those of you on the coasts, $100,000 deal sounds great. I would love to find one in Casey. What's your average buy price and what's your average ARV?

We're somewhere in the AR. We're on the buy price, say between 50 and 150. And on the sell side, we're between, say just under 100, 350, 400.

Cool. So back to the wholesalers. That's great. I think all that is extremely helpful. But I'm new and I found this wholesaler that brought me a quote deal. And how do I know if it's actually his deal to give to me? How do I know that he's not going to burn me and manipulate me and I'm signing some contract that's, I don't know that he doesn't even have a right to the property. How do I protect myself from shady wholesalers? And sadly, you know, we do our best to try and make sure that people don't behave this way. Well, there's nothing we can actually physically do, but you know, by speaking out about it. But there are people who either don't know what they're doing that do shady stuff, or there's people who are shady that do it. And you know, how do you protect yourself?

Well, I think knowing what these steps are, once you're under contract and before. So if you get a brand new deal and you're literally doing one of your first, you know, your first dealer, first few deals, you look at the contract and actually read it and maybe you even send it to an attorney if you don't know what's going on in that contract. And then also the question to ask is, do you close on this property.

Or are you assigning me the contract? And so if they're assigning a contract, then understand, hey, does the seller understand you might not be closing on this? And was it clear in that language? And then as you're doing your homework on the property, make sure that once you, if you put that contract, if you put that property under contract, that you know, if a shady wholesaler is like, hey, go ahead and just give me the earnest money, no, it needs to go to a title company or needs to go to an attorney who's the closing agent and make sure you know that third party.

Firewall, if you will, is in place. And then also make sure that you're not doing anything else in that contract that contractually makes you obligated to do anything if, if the title doesn't come back clean so there's non refundable deposits and stuff like that. We had a deal come back that we were under contract for 52,000 that had 176,000 in liens.

Yeah.

So of course we're not closing on that, but we were in escrow and it clearly said in the contract that we would get our money back if they couldn't clear it at that sales price. So just make sure you've, if you know what you're doing, you sign a contract that makes sense and it's legal and that you have those third parties, whether it's the title and otherwise that will help you.

Great advice.

Hey, how do you think the wholesalers are getting the deals that are, what are they doing? Direct mail marketing or.

Yeah, I think there's a number of ways wholesalers can do that. So you can literally do the door knocking old school and put hangers on the doors and knock and you know, just keep coming back. You can find houses that just look dilapidated and track them down on the, on your county. So that's kind of like the, the cheapest way you can find out the address and find out the owner and send, and send mail and then request forwarding on your, on your mail. And then you can always do pay per click. And there's Google Ads and those kind of things that send them. Send people through filters and funnels of, of getting their information and then you can call them back. And then there's obviously the old school way of just sending direct mail and then picking a certain list that you're going to choose and creating those campaigns.

Wow, that's great. Sound like you know what you're talking about.

I try to learn every day.

Good. I love it. I love it. All right, so marketers, you know, you talked about these other folks that you get opportunities from. Who are these people? How do you find them? What are they doing? What's the story about these quote marketers?

We have a number of relationships, but I would say this is kind of the furthest from the norm of other guys who have a bigger operation that have a much larger. They might be sending 30, 40, 50, 100,000 pieces of mail a month and have large scale marketing campaigns. And so they produce leads and they're basically handing them off as a partner relationship and then they have a piece of the action, so to speak, in a wholesale kind of fee. So you really have to understand what that actual deal looks like and what the agreement is prior to, you know, getting into a relationship with somebody like that.

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So how do you find these resources? How do you find these, these, these folks?

You know, for me personally, it's just come through personal relationships. So let's say, for instance, I see one wholesale deal that comes through, so somebody was going through Biggerpockets or Craigslist or whatever, and they pulled my email. And so I see a deal and then I understand who it's from. And then I come to find out, hey, this is in Arizona, or hey, this is in California, or hey, this is in, you know, Denver. Lots of guys in Denver, they're having trouble finding stuff in your market. You know, they'll produce wholesale leads in other markets and then find guys like us who will do that. But you know, I think that's the word of warning, which is understand who's actually doing that and what they're asking you to do. And then who's putting it under contract? Is it their contract or yours? And then what is your opportunity as far as knowing that you're safe in that transaction and you have control of the deal that you just locked down for them?

Awesome. Awesome. I got one last quick question and I think I may have understood misunderstood. You had talked about offloading your properties to turnkey. Now are you selling to other turnkey providers or are you guys actually also vertically integrating? And as you turn the properties, you're finding folks who want to acquire them, you're managing for those new owners. Are you doing one or are you doing both?

Yeah, there are third party aggregator businesses out there that do that. So they literally have a platform for people to sell them. For us. We decided that we wanted to do everything in house and so we have built those relationships directly with those investors and buyers. And so they come directly to us and they buy directly from us and our property that we have and we give them a warranty and then we do like you said, we have our own property management that we then manage that property for them.

Got it. Okay. So are you only flipping to folks that you're then managing or are you flipping to other end buyers as well?

We do flip to end buyers as well. So we do say 70% turnkey and about 30% to the MLS retail. Yeah.

Cool.

That's cool and awesome.

How are you managing this whole process? What software do you use, what programs do you use, what management software, what CRM, all that.

Sure. So we started using some other property management software, but we kind of decided and landed on and have now worked on appfolio from the property management side. And they, they've done a good job of continually helping solve problems within their software and building out cool new reports and, and it's much more robust now. And then the other thing that we've done is we, we run basically everything in our business on podio now.

Okay.

And so it's open architecture. You can literally basically anything that has a data point or information that you can have, you can build systems, you can build automations and workflows and anything around. Anything that you can put a data point to.

That's cool. I'm actually trying to get podio working right now. I'm working on this mobile home park, trying to find a mobile home park. So I'm trying to do that entire system inside podio. So you and I need to have a conversation on how to get this set up.

Didn't we try and use it like three or four years ago, Brandon?

We did and I could never really figure it out. Like yeah, we talked a lot about it, but I'm committed now to figuring this out.

I think this is the secret. I think a lot of times we struggle to find something that we want to be the plug and play end all, be all, and boom, we can just put it in our system. What we found was Podio initially was just a nightmare, but we didn't really understand what it could do, and we didn't have the functionality because we didn't tell it to do what we wanted it to. Over time, we started building out more specific apps and more specific things in Podio that then delivered the result. Now you can have dashboards that tell you days on market or your average rehab cost, or how many days your rentals are vacant. And you can create these things where you can see them in views, and we've created those kind of views for people in our organization because everybody has something a little different that they're looking for to see.

That's awesome.

Got it.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Well, I'm gonna definitely get Podio working because what I've seen is it does exactly kind of what I want it to do. It just takes a lot of setup to get to that point. So I'm. I'm working on that. So, anyway. All right, cool. So one other thing I. One other thing I wanted to commend you on as a turnkey provider. Turnkey has a bad name sometimes in terms of. I feel like a lot of turnkey providers fudge the numbers. We'll say a little bit when they're talking to investors. So I've had some buddies that have worked with you, and they've showed me your numbers. And I just want to say, like, the fact, first of all, you. You show the numbers using the bigger pockets calculators, which I think is just cool anyway, right? Because, like, we designed the calculators to help people see very plainly what the deal is like and what, you know, it makes it hard to fudge the numbers anyway. So I like that you do that, but also you. You include things like capital expenditures and repairs in your numbers. And I wish more turnkey people did that. I wish more wholesalers when they came to me and they're like, here's a really good deal. No, it's not a good deal because you fudged all these numbers up. You know, Like, I like the fact that you're very legit, and so I just want to commend you on that. Good job, Nathan Brooks.

Well, thank you for saying that. And.

From the beginning, we said we didn't want to have a mediocre business. We had an awesome business. And if we're going to do a rehab, I want to do an awesome rehab. And we want to have clients. We want to have clients for a long time, and we want to be their partner. And so, you know, I think that was important. And you guys have really legitimized a lot of things at most in one place for bigger pockets, whether you're a wholesaler or you're a real estate agent and trying to understand there's so much information out there. And so I think you guys have done a phenomenal job of having content that's real and makes sense. And for us to then be able to use the tools that you guys have provided and then for us to build it to, in the context of people are looking on bigger pockets to say, well, I want to buy turnkey. Well, what does that mean? Okay, well, now you can learn what that means. And then we help tell the story about how we're actually rehabbing it and trying to be as transparent as we possibly can so that they know what they're actually getting.

Yeah, I think that's just important for business. Sorry, just transparency in general. Right. The more you can get to that, better.

I know Brandon wants to move on to leadership and things like that, but before we do, I had a question. You mentioned that you are. It sounds like vertically integrating construction into your business. It sounds like you're fully vertically integrating everything into your business, which is awesome. This morning I had had breakfast with a guy who, you know, he, you know, he and I talked about contractors. You know, they can be very transient and, you know, they're always looking for the next best opportunity. And, you know, loyalty doesn't seem to be there. And like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, this is what I hear over and again with. With everybody. And he's talking about building his own, you know, crew of painters, getting his own crew of drywall, you know, literally building. I mean, he works on massive projects, but, you know, for somebody like you, 120 deals, I mean, it seems really logical that you have all that quality control. Otherwise, you know, I mean, you can't. You can't maintain that many projects consistently with the average contractor. Right. So how do you. How do you do that? How do you find great contractors who are going to do the job, who are going to do a great job, and who are going to keep coming back?

Man, that is. That is the question, I think. So it's really easy to put a deal together on paper that looks awesome, and it's another to put it out the other end of the factory, so to speak, and in the way that you want it to be. And so I think no matter what skill you are, whether you're doing one or I think we have 21 active projects in construction right now, it doesn't matter. It's always a challenge. And so there's a few things that we've been working on to solve that problem. First of all, we are working. No matter if you're the lowest guy in the totem pole or you're the highest guy on staff, running everything, we are making it very clear on what our expectation is. This is what a kitchen looks like. This is what the design is. This is how you put in a tub. This is what the type of vanity is. And we've started to make it clear for every single project. And so not only do you have the scope of the project on the job site, but you also have the selections that are there. So even if you're the, you know, the laborer person, and you can clearly see, you know, every bedroom gets a ceiling fan. It's right there. So go pick up the box, you know, unpack it, and put the ceiling fan in. And so the more clear we can be on the process and the end result that we're looking for, and in my business, we talk about a lot. We talk about the activity and the result. So the activity is rehabbing a house, but the result is to have, you know, everything is, you know, completed in the way that you wanted it, and you have to tell them what you want, and then you have to train them continually and over and over and over on what you're expecting them to do.

Yeah. So on BiggerPockets, we call that our style guide. Right. So it's, you know, if you're going to create a button on the site, this is what the button should look like. If you're going to create a page. Here's the border, here's the margins, here's what the fonts look like, here's how the page in general is expected to be composed. And, you know, we didn't have that for a very long time, but. And creating it is a big fat pain in the. You know what it is. However, once. Once that's in place, now you have the tools, now you have the language with which everybody can speak consistently, so that going forward, it's just easier. You don't even have to worry, like, yeah, every bedroom is going to have a ceiling fan done. I don't have to ask that question. It's done. Right?

Yep.

That's beautiful.

It is. And I think for the first time, rehabber, it still Makes sense. It's still applicable. So you have to decide at some point, you're going to have to decide what tile am I putting in, what color am I painting the house, what kind of roof am I putting on? So start building on that stuff now. And it doesn't have to be as detailed as we're doing 100 and some flips, but you can start with that, put the basics of that in play, and then you're able to build from that rather than wake up one day and you have a giant company with what, you have 3,000 employees or something?

Yeah. Not quite.

Trying to tell them what to do and how you want the websites laid out.

It's like a cookbook, right? I mean, you have to know the ingredients, you have to know how they're prepared, and the cookbook explains it consistently. Here's our cookbook. Here's how we want things done. And so to your point, like on a new somebody new. Hey, I really love what this looks like. We're going to use this vanity every single time. Cool. Write it down.

Right?

These tiles are fantastic. I love working with these. Write it down. And then little by little, don't just say, hey, I want the black tiles. What are the model numbers? How much are they? Where do you buy them from? You know, create that. Now you're systematizing each property so that as you go forward, you know, you just make it easier.

Well, and don't forget, then on top of that, so you, you put the, you know, 1, 2, 3, black tile, and you put the, you know, 1, 2', 3 vanity, and then you go back to whoever that supplier is, and you say, hey, remember me? I was here last week and I bought the 1, 2, 3 black tile. Hey, I'm buying it again. See this? It's in my cart. Cool. I'm going to see you next time. And I look forward to having a conversation about what we can do better on the price.

There you go. I love it.

So then you're instilling that relationship, and then you're instilling the opportunity that they're going to give you a better deal. And we've continued to do that in a lot of those relationships.

Awesome.

Cool. All right, well, kind of on a related note, I do want to get to talk a little bit about leadership. And one of the reasons why is, Nathan, you and I had a conversation back, I don't know, four or five months ago, and I was kind of telling you what's going on in my business. Some of the struggles I'm Having.

And.

And you kind of called me out on something and you said, brandon, you need to take responsibility for the leadership of your team.

Yeah.

He said.

Yeah, he basically said, like.

Well, so, like, thank you, Josh. No, so I have a tendency to just kind of let people do what they do. And, like, and then I get frustrated when it doesn't turn out the way that I wanted. Like, I mean, for example, last year we were working on a big project. I mean, we did a huge rehab on a fourplex, and at the end of the project, like, my bookkeeping, like, the person I thought was in charge of it, like, the books were a mess, and I was complaining about that. And you're like, well, Brennan, you need to take responsibility for that. Like, that's your job. Can you talk about, like, yeah, talk about that a little bit. Like, what do you mean by that? Take responsibility for the leadership of your team.

So I.

I hope I was. Thank you for telling me that, Brandon.

You were very nice about it. You were very nice, and I agree with you.

He was drinking that day, so he doesn't remember, but.

Oh, no, I vividly remember the conversation. I didn't realize it was so impactful.

It was, it was.

I'm glad to hear that. So the reason I could say that is because I did that and I had that same moment in my own team and I had the same experience with my people. And I came back after a real estate mastermind, and I had kind of had this epiphany and talked with a couple of the people on our team, and I sat everybody down. 9:00am you know, meeting or whatever it was, and I literally said, I'm sorry, there's a lot of screwed up stuff going on here, and it's my fault. And we had to start sitting down. And so, like, for. In your example, you know, if it was over budget, well, why was it over budget? Was it clear on what the scope was? Was it clear when they got their draw? And so in ours, whether it was property management, how fast was our turn? Or how do we place our tenant? Or, you know, on the construction side, just like what we talked about, they didn't have a selection sheet, so the contractor's like, white tile, cool. You know, they didn't know, hey, it's the three by six or it's the, you know, four by 12, and it's this grout color and it's this pattern. So that was my fault. And so for me, it had to be. And we talk about the one thing and so what's the one thing, and it might be super, super tiny, which is literally what is the tile we're going to use on the backsplash of every turnkey house or it's the one thing, which is how are we going to process an application for rent or how are we going to onboard a new client? So for you, Brandon, I think I was thinking about how do you help start telling the people what you want and then you put the processes in place for you to get the result that you were looking for.

I like it and I'm trying. I'm actually, I'm in, you know, doing this flip right now that I closed on last week and I'm like trying to take 100% responsibility for this thing. Like I'm involved, you know, whether or not I'm the day to day guy that's there at least I want to be in charge. Everything that goes wrong is my fault. And I'm trying to put those processes in place now because yeah, I don't. When you don't have processes we don't have. People don't know what they're doing. Everyone's frustrated.

Exactly. And you haven't explained to them what, what the end result is that you're looking for. And so that was one of those things. So you, in your case, maybe you do need to be on, on the job site more often, but you're helping train that contractor of. This is how I want the layouts of these kitchens. This is the kind of finishes that I expect. No, it's not cool to slot paint over the, over the white trim. You know, we want it nice and tight. Go fix this and this and this and this and this. This is, this is how it's supposed to look. And then now you've explained to them, you set the conditions for them. And now you've explained to them and now you can say, hey, no, you go do that. This is what I've asked you to do.

Yeah, I like that a lot. I like that a lot. Yeah. I came to the realization that, you know, any, any frustration in my life is likely the result of a failed system on my part. And I think of everything that I'm frustrated in life. There's a system broken there that I can try to work on. Anyway.

I started with your brain system.

Yes, you can take that a step further. Which is what we did where in the book Traction, they talk about the issues list and having your quarterly rocks and your yearly goal or whatever all those things are. And so one of the things we did and we have an actual place in Podio where anybody on our staff can put in an issue. And so we're not saying, hey, we're not going to deal with this issue, or I might not be able to get it to, to it today, but they have a place to put in there. And by the way, not only do they have a place to put the issue, but then we ask them to give a proposed solution to what the problem is. So that way, as problems come up, it's not just getting silent. It's not silent. We're not putting it away. And so, like, the next time you have that come up, now you can go back and say, oh, I had this issue, how did I solve it? You're not replicating, solving the problems. And then you take the problem, you take the solution, you put it into a process, and then you just repeat the heck out of it.

Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah, Attraction was a great book about, like, systematizing your business and just how do you scale, how do you get that traction, I guess, as they call it? So what are the books? What are the books you're reading right now? I know we asked that question later in the Famous Four, but, yeah, we.

We were talking about. Well, actually, to that point in this conversation, I have this sitting at my desk right now, and Jocko, you owe me, like, at least 10 books, but this extreme ownership book is just phenomenal.

And that's the guy that you want to tell that he owes you?

Yeah, yeah, I am.

All right, There you go.

He's, you know, you know, just because he's a Navy SEAL and just because he's a jiu jitsu, you know, student, you know, terrifying human being.

They can.

Put it in the mail. I don't have to, you know, be a jujitsu match with them for it. But that book was amazing. And one of the things I loved about it was he talked about in the very first chapter that there was this, this experience they had this blue on blue is what they call it, and which means basically friendly fire. And after every mission, Navy SEALs, they would sit their guys back down and they would talk about what happened to mission, what went well, what do we need to work on. And, and, and this was kind of one of the things that hit me right in the teeth. And he sat everybody down after that mission, and everybody in the chain of command for him, you know, up and down to the generals and all the way down to his, you know, lowest ranking guys were, you know, super upset. He's in big Trouble. And he sits everybody down and he says, you know, whose fault is this? Everybody starts looking around each other and people start to say that it's my fault, it's my fault. And he says, no, it's not your fault, it's my fault. And so I just love this book. I love thinking about how they had people in the field and in this book they talk about decentralized command. And everything we've been talking about this morning is about how do you explain what you want, but then give the power and autonomy for you guys to go get it and then reward them and praise them and tell them what they're doing a good job and help them critique and get better what they're doing.

So what do you do when something goes wrong? What do you do? You've decentralized and you know, your guys are not doing it as they're supposed to or, you know, it's not my fault. You know, what do you do in that situation? Because surely you're going to come across that.

Yes, absolutely. Well, I think the ownership on the front end for it being my fault is true because if they didn't have the clarity in what they were being asked to do, then then I'll own that. And then I think there's an importance separating the emotion we have to feeling frustrated and then the actual whatever they did wrong. So, you know, you can feel frustrated, but they're not going to learn much from you being frustrated. They're going to learn from you actually telling them what happened, what was wrong, and then how we fix it the next time. And then you give them the opportunity and the training to do it. And I remember for years and years, even on the hiring side, like hire an assistant, go write up contracts, go find me some deals. Goodbye. See you later. What does that really mean? They have no idea. Absolutely no idea. And then you're going to be upset because you don't have the actual result that you thought that you would get from telling them to go write up a contract and send it to title and find you some deals. And so for me, we started, and even the way we onboard people now too is they take much smaller bytes. This is how you do this one thing. Let's do it again. And let's do it again. And let's do it again. Oh, screwed it up, no problem. Let's do it again. And then back to that selection sheet on the job site. This is what it looks like. This is a picture of what it looks like. This is the content of what it Looks like. And so I really try to put it in a context. If they want to be there, they're going to want to get it right. And if they don't care, they're in the wrong place and they can go work somewhere else where nobody cares. But that's not what we want, and that's not the culture that we want. And we talk about it through our core values of our business and say, hey, we gonna do the right thing every time, and if that's what you want to do, let's do it again. Awesome.

I love it. Well, cool. Well, I mean, we could talk about leadership forever, but I'm just gonna get you on a private call and I'm gonna make you teach me how to be a better leader. If you could. I mean, if there's one piece of advice, we could kind of leave off this topic. Topic with is like, if I want to be a better leader, what should I do? What do I do to be a better leader in my business, my family and my life and whatever?

Yeah. I think you have to start with you. I was on the phone, a phone call with a friend of mine, Darren, who's kind of got that old country boy. He'd probably hate that I said that, but.

He'S got that spiritual soul and he can really help. And he was talking about how in his life and he's got a monster wholesale business and they do amazing stuff. And he was talking about how he had to start here first inside.

And that was not because he didn't love his wife or didn't care for his kids and whatever. But if I am not dealing with whatever is happening in here, I cannot possibly help anybody else. And so what does that mean? Well, that means I am getting to the gym. It means I am eating well. It means that I am learning all the time. So I try to read a book every week or a week and a half so that I typically do audible books. But I'm consistently. If you can get in the car or you can be in your office and there's the radio playing, hey, guess what? Wrong answer. Turn the radio off, get an audible book or whatever that is, or rent one from the library, and you could be taking in that information and putting it in your brain. And then I am consistently putting myself in uncomfortable positions to be more comfortable. So if I am comfortable all the time, I'm not going to be pushing to find answers to help them. So I'm going to sit down with one of my staff people and say, hey, what's going on. No, really, what's going on? Let's look at that issues list item. Let's talk about it. What's the big challenge? And if you can meet somebody where they are and you're actually helping them solve problems so that they can do their job, you are then enabling yourself to be able to do the things that you are truly supposed to be doing.

I love it.

Awesome. That's great.

Well, I'm committed, by the way. Can I talk about one more thing, which is I really, truly believe it starts with asking what you are supposed to be doing, what do I want to be doing? And then how do I help the people around me do all the things that I'm not?

I love it.

That's correct.

Awesome.

All right, well let's shift gears here a little bit and we're going to Julie on a few questions that come direct from the BiggerPockets forums. Because this is the Fire round.

It's time for the Fire Round.

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All right. These questions again come straight out of the BiggerPockets forums, which you can get to@biggerpockets.com forums. And these are some very specific questions today. So, Josh, why don't you kick us off?

This is great. Apparently I'm very confused because I'm usually the second question. You are.

I know. I thought I want to be nice and let you. I'm giving you.

I'll just see how this goes. You give me like you know, the TLDR question, but let's do this. Can you keep track here? You ready?

It's a long question.

Yeah, I'm ready.

Hi, I'm 23 years old. Hi, I'm 23 years Old and have been trying to get started in real estate investing but no luck. I know this wasn't going to be easy, but it almost feels impossible. I finally tried to get pre qualified for a loan of about 80 to $90,000 or so. The loan officer that took my application finally called back and pretty much told me I can't if I don't have 15 to 20k to put down. She said I don't make enough to support a loan of that much. I make about $2,600 a month and have only my truck payment of $560 a month. She said that the loan payment I would have, let's say, the loan payment, I would have too much debt to income. And when I qualify. She also specifically asked me if it was for myself or to rent out. I know I've heard before not to say it's an investment property. What's the best way to build capital or buy your first property? And is that okay for me to say that? It is indeed for an investment property.

Okay.

And done.

Wow, that's a really short and succinct question.

Okay, I think there's a really simple answer here. You cannot expect to have the different result by doing the same activity. So first of all, if the bank's not going to do it, you're not going to just automatically go add income or properties or whatever. Stop doing that. You're just gonna have a bunch of credit polls. It's not gonna be helpful. So there's a couple ways you can do that. First of all, mentor, coach, partner. One of those things you could, you could absolutely have. And there's some opportunity. There's, there's a cost to that. Depending upon which way you go. Probably the cheapest route is that JV kind of opportunity. So you find a. Somebody in your market that you look up to and you continually ask to be a part of that. Maybe you even work for free. Maybe you do the whole deal for nothing. Second is, in the last couple weeks, I put a house under contract. No money out of pocket. It's going to go in my personal portfolio. So there are different ways to structure deals. So someplace that you could look at is. And Brandon, I can't remember. And please don't be offended, the book title, it's long.

The book on investment in real estate with no unload money.

Help to thank you.

Where do they get that?

Biggerpockets. That comes with money.

Yeah, yeah, see, I had that.

All right, thanks.

Yeah, man. And so you could, you can learn the strategy of buying these things with less or no money. And you're not dealing with that bank underwriter who's going to look at a thousand documents and want a blood sample and all that. And it's based around the actual property that you're buying. So it's called an asset based loan and not your income and, you know, DTI based loan. So. And I would never in a million years propose to say if it is an investment property that you not say it is. So you cannot ever, ever start having your moral compass on the right direction.

Thank you. And lying on a, on a mortgage application is like a federal offense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even besides the whole jail part.

Yeah, just don't do that.

Don't do it.

Yeah, yeah. It's good to sleep at night.

And don't make that choice.

Yeah, that's really good advice there. I would also just add. And again, I'm not judging. I don't know the exact situation, but if you make 2600amonth, you should not have a $560 truck payment. Like, I don't have a $560. I don't have a car payment, period, because I. It holds you back. Like, if you imagine what if you didn't have that. I know. Maybe it's. You didn't realize it at the time or whatever, but. But, man, I mean, if you have to have a car, get a $200 car payment if you have to, or $100 car payment, but drive something cheap. And, I mean, if you're making 2,600amonth, I agree.

I think for the first time in my life, I have a car payment close to that high. And, you know, yeah, you make a.

Little more than 2,600amonth, I think.

And I have one as well, but I have a lease, and I, you know, I write off the vast majority of that. And so there's different ways you can structure that when you're at the point.

And there's a time and place for it. Right. I mean, like, we, like, we are all consistently earn more than 2600amonth. And there's. I think people just want to achieve the dream before they've earned the dream. You know, like they.

Well, my brother. My brother, you know, when he was starting real estate investing, he bought like a $700 truck off of some guy that was getting rid of it. It wasn't great. It broke down once in a blue moon. He had to put, you know, some sweat equity into keeping the truck alive. But. But he didn't have a car payment. Right? So, you know, if you're starting out and, man, today we got a lot of plugs. Sorry, guys, but there's a book. It's called Set for Life. It's written by Scott Trench. It's a big river pockets book, and it talks about all these things, but one of the things it talks about is frugality and just being smart with your money and using frugality as a means to an end towards getting those first deals out the door. You could buy the book@biggerpockets.com set for life, but the book's amazing and just that mindset is a total Shift for a lot of people.

The other book would be Rich Dad, Poor dad and really thinking about what that earning is and how you actually think about that result that you want and put the pieces in place to do it.

I totally agree. Love it, Love it. All right, well that was the longest question.

That was the longest firearm question ever.

All right, question number two is a lot shorter. I'm finding that property managers are expensive. I'm out of state. Can I just manage the property myself? From out of state?

You're shaking your head and then you're don't do it. Yeah, you know, I own a property management business and yes, it is expensive. Human capital is expensive. Getting great people is expensive. And so you know, do you want to get the mediocre of property management or do you want to get the greater property management? So you need to interview people. If you can't afford the management, you probably can't afford the house. So I just, I think that it's a dangerous, dangerous play for the vast majority of people I know. I'm sure there's some people out there who are self managing stuff out of state. Good for you. I would never do that. I would find a great partner on the ground who's going to be looking at your property, making sure the maintenance is cared for and it's taken care of.

Awesome. Awesome. And I love what you said in there and I, I don't know if a lot of people caught it, but you said if you, it was something like if I can't afford it then for the house. Right. And we talk about that. I know, Brandon, you talk about that on webinars. We have been talking about that here at Biggerpockets for years and years and years from when we started Talking about the 50% rule, you know, and what a lot of new investors will do and a lot of gurus will kind of push is, hey, well you know, if you self manage, that cuts 8 to 10, 12% of your costs. So just do that, you know, and then you could factor that into the deal. Well, the problem with that is this. At some point in time there is a likelihood that you no longer will want to manage the property yourself. You know, if you're just buying one or two properties, okay, maybe you'll do it. But as you scale, something's going to change. At some point there is a pretty good chance that you're going to want some management. Well, guess what, you didn't factor that into this deal and opportunity. And so what was supposed to be a great deal that you were making 5, 6%. What you got to pay out 8% now, now you're minus 3%. Uh oh, you're in trouble.

Not to mention what, what are you buying that rental house for? You want passive income, you want to build your wealth, you want to have cash flow, you want to be able to do what you want. Do you really want to take the phone call to fix the toilet? And do you really want to take the weekend call when there's some water in the basement or whatever the problem might be? So I think it's very short sighted if you're not thinking about why you actually bought that property and what it's supposed to do in your life.

Even if you want to manage yourself, I still budget for management and then I pay myself a management fee so that at any point I could turn and give it to somebody else and I still. The investment makes sense on its own. It stands on its own.

Yep, exactly. Cool.

Awesome. And along with that, really, really quick, there's lots of other factors that people, you know, vacancy rates and capex like you guys that are new. Please, please jump on the calculators on bigger pockets. Look at all these things that we account for. Because if you're not thinking about all that when you buy a property, you're going to get yourself in trouble. Please, please do that. All right, number three, seems to me when I look into buying a $60,000 house, it comes with issues. It's potentially on its last leg in a neighborhood that's consistent with the same issues in the same price point. Okay, I think I get that. When I go up to 100,000, you're basically getting turnkey and not much fix up. And again, I don't know what market this guy's in, but do the math. In your own market, what do you think an investor should do? I'm after cash flow, not appreciation.

Okay, well, I think there's a couple questions. So this is pretty comparable in our market, so I'll just use ours as an example. So at 60, I think the question is really, what am I buying this and what am I going to do with it? So if you're buying it at 60 and you expect just to put a renter in it, it's a bad move. You haven't made a good choice. If you don't have the cash to do it, you don't have the contracts to do it, you don't want to do it. You, you know, maybe, you know, ask yourself that, do you want to manage? Do you want to Run the construction, whatever. And then the second is, you know, are you looking for what is the opportunity cost? So at the $100,000, you had somebody else who had took the risk. So that's what we tell our clients, too. Like, hey, we took the risk. We have a profit margin built into these things. But we also tell you what we're going to do in the scope of work, and then we give you a warranty for it. So, you know, I think the person who's buying this $60,000 house is the one who made the choice to put the work in on the front end, and then they re benefit on the back. But, you know, you have to make the choice if you want to actually do the work and if you have the capacity to do it and you want to learn and go through the hassles of actually solving that problem.

Got it.

Makes sense. Makes sense.

Awesome.

All right, number four. So this somebody. This is a much longer thread or question, but I kind of. I'll sum it up with this. Basically, somebody hired a contractor to do some work on their bathroom at their house. And it says here. It says, here's the dilemma. I stupidly left a family heirloom quilt handmade by my great grandmother, draped on a chair in the living room, and the workers decided to use it to clean up waste in the bathroom. I came in one day to find it sodden on the floor of the shower. The, you know, general contractor tried to get it washed. What do I do?

Well, I think step.

Judge Wapner, step one, take responsibility.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe it's called extreme ownership. Don't leave your family heirlooms in the house for. I mean, I think the unfortunate thing is there's nobody's responsibility but their own.

So you don't, like, deduct it from any pay from the contract or anything?

I don't think so. I mean, it's hard to understand the context of everything unless you were standing there and saw it. But at the same time, you know, the contractor, you wouldn't expect somebody to pick up one of your own personal things and use that. But.

You know, I think it's a difficult thing where, if it's that important to you, why was it so close to the construction site in the first place?

Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right. That was the end of the fire.

I might argue that one, but, you know, this is not debate. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, why, Josh, think it's your fault? You left it sitting there.

I left it sitting there, but it was not a You know, this is not a dish rag or unless it looks like a dish rag, right? I mean, if it looks like, oh, this is a crappy old rag. I mean, you know, if it looks, it sounds like it's a blanket or a quilt. Yeah. I mean, like, who uses, who goes to somebody's house and grabs their quilt and uses it to clean up from the bathroom? I mean, like, who does that?

But don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you.

Yeah, I know.

I think the question is, is can you really blame the person?

The challenge is how do you, how do you, how much is that stupid? It's not stupid. It's an heirloom. How much is it worth? Right? So like, hey, listen, you know, this thing's probably, it cost them 50 bucks. It's probably worth a hundred or a thousand or million to them. You're not going to pay them that I think you would probably want to say to the gc, hey, listen, like, you know, yes, perhaps it should not have been there. At the same token, your workers never in a million years should have taken this thing and used it to clean the floor and destroy it. You know, let's figure out how we can work this out, you know, and then, you know, it's also the responsibility of the contractor tell his guys, don't take people's crap and use it to clean your mess. I agree. I do think there's a conversation there. I don't think it's like, you know, you're going to eat it. I think, you know, I'm a New Yorker. We don't like when people screw us like that.

Well, I think the question though is how do you actually rectify it? And you put it.

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, maybe you say you find some value and say, listen, this job was a $10,000 job. What are you willing to do given that you've destroyed this 100 year old heirloom from my great grammy? And if he's like, I do nothing. Okay, well, I'll be sure to keep that in mind, you know, going forward. You know, and if it's like, you know what? I'll give you a couple hundred bucks, anything to make it right is, is going to be the right thing from the contractor. At least I, you know, some, something, something reasonable.

And I would go ahead, Brandon.

Well, I'll just say I'd also look at it as. How good a relationship do you have with the contractor? You know, maybe this is a really good way to Get a better price on the next deal. You know, like, hey, man, you really screwed me over here. My wife is so sad. She's been crying for days. You know, let's just work this out on the next deal. Cool. And then they owe you, basically. I mean, I would. I'd potentially work it that way.

Yeah, there's lots of angles. You got to figure it out. But anyway, I just, I don't. I don't think you accept that, hey, I screwed up and move on. Yeah, you did, but they did too. So.

By the way, I'm gonna put. I'm gonna put a link to all of these threads that we talked about here in the fire round today. If you guys are listening to this and you want to go jump into those conversations, just go to biggerpockets.com show 232 and you can find links to all these threads and jump into the comments.

Why have we not been doing this?

I don't know. I never. I never thought about that. Well, well, Josh suggested something earlier too, is whenever we talk about a book, why don't we just have a URL to. To the Amazon page? Like go to biggerpockets.com extreme ownership. And Dave, who's our podcast editor, will make a little short code on bigger pockets. So go to biggerpockets.com extreme ownership and biggerpockets.com traction and you can get more information about those books. So just makes.

Jocko can send a hundred of them.

So Jocko can now send a hundred.

Is Jocko gonna send me some copies? I don't quite know Jocko, but I have sampled the book actually. Why don't we get sounds. He sounds like a bit of a tough guy.

Get him on the podcast.

Yeah, let's get Jocko on the podcast. All right, we're gonna do it.

And then I should just fly to Denver and then we can do a little jiu jitsu.

Well, Brandon said he. He could take him.

Brandon said I could take on Jocko. Come on. That guy. I can take him. I follow him. I follow him on Instagram and he's like the best Instagram guy to follow. He every day he posts pictures of his. Of. This is just random and funny, but it's his. It's this like the floor under where he worked out. So it's always like this like sweat stained black and white floor, but it's like artwork every time. It's like my favorite post of the day. I don't know. Is that weird and gross? It's so funny.

It's totally gross. Yeah.

Check it out. Follow Jock. What's it? A Jocko Willow. Is that how you say his last name?

Will, Inc. Will.

Yeah. Follow him on Instagram and follow Josh and me and Nathan on Instagram too. All right. All right. So with that, we're at the famous Famous Four time.

Let's do this. Famous Four. This is the Famous Four.

All right.

Come on, Nathan. Did we ever make you do it back in the day?

No, man.

All right, let's hear it.

It's too bad. The Famous Four.

That's pretty good.

That's our new recording. We're gonna use that.

That's actually good. Yeah, we'll take it. All right. That's actually really funny. We should take that. All right, Famous for question number one. And of course, you've been on the show a couple of times, so these might be the same. Might be different. What is currently your favorite real estate, Specifically your real estate related book. Favorite.

A real estate related book.

Other than all of mine, of course.

You know, obviously, other than all of yours. You know, I think that my. My favorite is my wife and I are going back through the millionaire real estate investor book. I really like it just because it's simple language, it's simple deals. It's not super complicated. And I've read a bunch of those books and I think there's a bunch out there, but I just love how simple it is. And I think those guys do a great job on really, all their books.

I agree. Cool.

Awesome. Next question. Favorite business book outside of the one that we've been talking about, the extreme ownership.

Yeah. I think that my favorite right now would be E. Myth. It really has challenged me on the way that I thought about bringing on new people in our business, and it's really encouraged me in a way. So E Myth stands for entrepreneur myth. And so the first couple of minutes or, you know, hour, it really felt like the same story that I lived through, which was bringing somebody on, telling them to go write some contracts, and then saying, you know, have fun, go do it. And it really helps you process that information and really apply it to what you're doing.

By the way, you can get. Go to biggerpockets.com millionaire investor to get the millionaire real estate investor or biggerpockets.come myth to get the email.

I like.

I like this.

Yeah, this is great. Right? Good idea. Makes things good idea for our listeners. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Nathan Brooks. Besides growing very thick beards.

Yeah.

Flipping houses yeah. What do you do for fun, man?

You know, I have really gotten into jiu jitsu and kickboxing.

Oh, nice. You and Brandon should fight.

We should.

I could take you easily.

He'd be terrified, though. I don't know how he'd really handle it once he was in there.

Oh, I'd handle it.

Oh, he would handle you, little girl. It would be hysterical.

I would pay for this. In fact, you know what? I bet you our listeners would pay to watch Brandon bite you or anybody in an arena. We should do a charity event. Actually. We should do Brandon versus Anyone as a charity event. I think it would be amazing. People would pay a ton of money to do it.

So I hired a personal trainer twice a week, so I have an hour and a half twice a week with a pro fighter. So we do spend a lot of time on the jiu jitsu, and we spend a lot of time on the strike. That's impressive. Just gotta get the practice in.

Okay? Okay.

All right.

Anything else?

You know, I have actually also gotten into bird hunting, so I was beautiful. German short hair pointer. And so his name's Gunner. And we. We do lots of fetch. We do lots of training and shoot lots of shotguns.

Oh, okay.

The German short hair pointer. Yep.

I didn't know that was German point hair.

German short hair pointer. I'll send you a picture.

Point hair.

Shh.

All right, let's end this thing with my final. Well, we got a couple questions, but my last of the famous four. What do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

I think we spent the whole time talking about it today, which was really starting here. And you have to make a choice what that actually looks like. And you have to be committed to go through the harder times. You have to be committed to learning. You have to be committed to all experiences that come with that. So if you're not willing to put forth the effort and do the learning and do all those things, then you probably haven't aligned what your actual goal is with reality. So you have to start with the goal, and you have to make sure it's congruent with what you actually want to do. And then if you make that choice and you put the work in, I believe that truly people can actually achieve that goal.

That's great. Wow. Very moving. Very, very moving.

I practiced it all week.

I appreciate you, Nathan.

I appreciate you, Josh.

Aw. All right, man. Before we let you get out of here, where can people find out more about you? Where can they connect with you. And how do they learn more?

Well, I am obviously on Bigger Pockets and I'm sure we'll have a link for that. I don't remember off the top of my head what it is. And then bridgeturnkey.com so that's our turnkey site. And then also on facebook.com fixflip rentkc. So we have all our stuff and pictures and clients and all that stuff on there.

Cool. And you guys can get links to anything we Talked about@biggerpockets.com show 232. Nathan Brooks, thank you again for coming on the show. We really do appreciate it.

Thank you, guys. I appreciate it as well.

Thank you.

All right, guys, that was Nathan Brooks. That was a great show.

That was fantastic. I like the shows where we just really drill down into a couple key topics, like how are you finding deals? And those four methods, I think, were fantastic. I think anybody can apply those to their business.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, it's great. And it sounds like he's scaled up a pretty serious business. His ideas on leadership are great. So great job, Nathan.

Yeah, thanks, Nathan. So, Josh, what's going on with you these days? What are your summer plans?

Summer plan? Summertime. I am.

What am I doing? I am going. I'm going on an adventure with the family at some point this summer. We are going to. Going RV in Nice. Yeah, we're gonna hit it.

I have RV parking. You can stay right here. Yeah, in my driveway. I have a little RV parking spot. I do. I don't have an rv, but I have parking.

Do you have, like, a dump that I can.

I do. Really? I don't.

Right. Right in your driveway.

I live on the edge of a hill. Just let it go down the hill. It's fine.

Yeah, I don't know that you want that.

The neighbors at the bottom might not like it, but whatever.

Yeah, I think we're gonna go check out Glacier, Yosemite, Yellowstone. Not Yosemite.

You know where you should go?

Rushmore.

Yeah, I was gonna say you should go to the Black Hills in South Dakota and the Badlands and this place called Bear country, usa. It's in Rapid City. Oh, my gosh. It's my favorite place. The entire world. They have, like hundreds of bears. You just drive around them. And wolves and. Anyway, it's crazy.

Awesome. Yeah.

It's like the coolest thing ever.

We're gonna go explore. So very cool. Yeah. How about you? What are you gonna do?

I'm going to drive you insane. No, I don't know. I'm. I'm hoping to do some traveling as well.

We'll see.

But I got a bunch of rehabs going on this summer, so I'm going to be busy managing those because I'm taking ownership for them.

Yeah.

You know, but extreme ownership.

Taking extreme ownership. But I am going down to California to do some surfing in July. So that'll be fun.

Nice. Have fun. That'll be great.

You can meet me down there. We'll do some surfing together in your old stomping grounds.

Yeah, buddy. All right, let's get out, guys. This is show 32 of the BiggerPockets podcast again. Check out the show notes@biggerpockets.com show 232 with that. Let's get out of here. Wait, Josh Dworkin.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. All right, so we have, like, a hidden segment at the end of every show, and a lot of people don't listen to it, probably because they don't even know it's there. And so we don't usually talk about it, but today's was so funny. You guys need to go listen to it. It's right after this music that starts right now. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com, your home for real estate investing online.

It's time.

It's time for.

It's time.

The random five.

All right.

And of course, as usual, we've got our little hidden segment of the show here we want to bring in. And this is our random six.

Now it's six.

We're confused.

All right, we're doing random six. These are six random questions we're gonna throw at you just to get to know you a little bit better. Anything completely unrelated to real estate. Number one, do you like any. Or do you like traditional sports like football, Football, baseball, soccer? Or extreme sports like snowboarding, bmx, motocross? Better.

I'm an avid baseball and football fan, so I would definitely have to say those are. Are mine. And I would say, go Royals and go Chiefs.

Is that like.

All right, next.

Hockey team, football. I don't even know.

I don't know. It's in the middle of nowhere. Nobody actually cares.

Yeah, you're not on the coast. Whatever.

Other than that, you know, world championship, you know, no big deal.

That didn't happen. All right, next question. Do you have a landline telephone in your house?

No way. I try not to be anywhere near my phone at all times. Well, that's sort of a lie, but no. Absolutely no. Do you guys have a landline?

Yes, I do.

Because I am old.

My grandma has a landline.

I just gave up my AOL email address. Good job.

You have the voicemail with the cassette.

Please leave a message at the beep. And. And I actually listen to the voicemails, too.

No, that's not amazing.

No, no, I don't.

I don't think I've listened to a voicemail in years.

Well, that explains a lot. You didn't get my message last night. Oh, man, that's. This is awkward.

Voicemail. Delete.

All right, next question. I like this one. This is fun. If you were in prison for a long time, we're gonna say, I'm gonna get my number. If you're in prison for 25 years and you had the opportunity to escape, would you. The 25 years, not life. That's an obvious. Of course you would if it was life. But if you had the opportunity to escape, you were in for 25 years. You're five years into it. Do you take it?

Well? I have to refer to the movie that I enjoy that has a similar theme. Well, either Shawshank Redemption or the Count of Monte Cristo. And so there has to be that phenomenal backstory in the priest that teaches you how to be a ninja or whatever he is. And then you read all this amazing literature, you dig it out with a spoon, and then you become the Count of Monte Cristo with the giant, you know, fat estate on the, you know, center of town. So I'll go with yes in that fashion.

All right. I like that.

By the way, I'm actually reading that book right now. I never read it before, you know. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know, quarter of the way through it. It is good. All right.

We have two more, right? Yeah.

What is your favorite Girl Scout cookie?

Oh, man. What's the one with the chocolate and the peanut butter?

I don't even know.

What that one's called. That's my favorite.

Yeah, there's. There's thin mint cookies, and then there's everything else. Garbage.

Like, in my mind, Samoas.

No.

No.

Oh, yeah.

Some people like Samos.

No, that. No way.

Yeah.

Chocolate and peanut butter in the same cookie. I mean, come on.

Yeah. All right, next question.

Last one of the famous random six for you. For Me? Do you attend your high school reunions? Right, because we're not five now we're six. Do you attend your high school reunion?

I did not attend my last one. And it is out the. Out with the jury on the future one.

All right. Were you cool in high school? I know it's not the question.

Definitely not.

Loser.

Okay.

Was anybody actually cool in high school?

Like, maybe three.

Yeah, every high school got, like three, but they're all the ones that are, like, losers today. So I'm gonna. You know, it's like reverses in life. I mean, Josh was really cool in high school, which is why he's.

Yeah, I was the antithesis of really cool in high school.

If orchestra and choir, you know, really go for, like, the really cool category, then I was definitely really cool.

Awesome. All right.

Peanut Pants is the coolest. Consider me Miles Davis.

Well, what.

What did I miss there?

That was from, what, Billy Madison? Anyway.

All right, last favorite line of any movie of all time.

Outside. Stop talking outside of yourself. Because this show, 200 plus thousand people will listen to this over the next two or three weeks. Outside of yourself, did any of your childhood friends become famous?

I got a buddy of mine who is on Gotham. His name's Drew Powell.

Nice.

I got a couple buddies who play in amazing bands all over the world and produce amazing records and play music. So that's pretty cool. And I think that's about it.

I think we all know somebody that's famous.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know you. Right? I mean, your. Your face is everywhere.

Oh, actually, here. Funny story. So. So this is Josh's face.

I don't know. I don't know what we're doing.

This is. So my wife and I are sitting in Josh's living room and Josh has some friends over. It was like. It was a surprise party for like, your, what, 40th birthday or 50th? 60th.

Were you invited to my 40th?

I was, yeah.

Whatever that I showed.

She did. Yeah. Me and Heather came out, out. And we're sitting in your living room, and you and your buddies, like, high school or college or whatever buddies are in the kitchen and there's this guy talking. And Heather's like, I know that voice from somewhere. How do I know that guy? And it was just off his voice, and I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She's like, no, I know that. That's. That's a walk to remember. And it was your buddy Al who played the guy Shane West's friend on a watch, remember? And he. And then like, like I yell out Josh, like, or Al, were you in watch to remember? And he's like, yeah, I was. And like, you have a famous friend. And now I see him on commercials. Like yesterday he was on some commercial for Chase or something like that. And I'm like, I know that guy.

He's like the face of Uber. He's. He's everywhere. He was Uber.

Yeah.

Al Thompson. He's amazing. And Al is a prolific real estate investor. I was killing it in. In real estate. We've been trying to get him on the show. I know he keeps turning me down. But anyway, yes.

Josh hangs out with, you know, Seinfeld and Al Thompson.

All right. It's another day in Josh's life.

Yeah.

Just another day. Yeah.

When you're Nathan Brooks. Thank you.

Yeah.

This was fun. Thank you. See you later.

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