245: Knowing What Leads to Victory. Critical Importance of The Fighting Spirit Combat Lessons Vol. 3 with Dave Berke

This is Jocko, podcast number 245 with Echo, Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

Good evening.

Also joining tonight is Dave Burke. Good evening, Dave. Good evening. Did you make it to the status of honorary co host yet?

Yes. No, I was thinking we're getting there.

People want to know why they call me. Good deal, Dave. This is the fact they're even talking about that.

This is why. Check back again tonight with some more combat lessons.

From the document called Combat Lessons Document, written in the throes of World War II. And what they were doing was interviewing frontline leaders and frontline troops. In fact, the subtitle is Rank and Filing Combat what They're doing and How They're Doing It. We've covered two of these so far, and this is the third one. And you know, sometimes I think to myself, oh, you know, I mean, we kind of get the idea, right? And I'll start thumbing. So I started thumbing through this one. I said, you know, do we really need to cover another one of these? So I started thumbing through it, and you just start reading these things.

And I can't put it down. And I'm still learning. And so I figure if I'm learning, we can all learn. Why? Why try and hold it back from the people? No reason. We can get right into it. So here it Is, Combat Lessons, Volume 3. And we've done two of these so far. Actually, I forget what number of podcasts they are, but we've covered two of these volumes. This is the third volume, and this is what all the volumes start off with. This quote. The paramount combat lesson learned from every operation is the vital importance of leadership.

Which is really an interesting thing that we say every single time we talk to people. Our equipment, our supply, and above all men, and above all our men are splendid, aggressive and determined. Leadership is the priceless factor which inspires a command and upon which all success in battle depends. It is responsible for success or failure. And that is July 3, 1944.

Starts off just jumping right into leadership. Leadership in command, need for leadership. Comments received from all active theaters continue to emphasize the need for competent and aggressive leaders. This is especially true as regards junior officers and non commissioned officers. Lt. Gen. Courtney H. Hodges, who observed operations in North Africa and Italy, stated.

And before I even get to that.

Why is it, why is it just so awesome that they're just pointing out over and over and over again in each one of these volumes that leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield? And yet we work with Companies that have no leadership training for their people.

Until Echelon Front shows up. And then I guess they do. But it's bizarre that it's bizarre that it is so hard. What makes it. What, Dave? What makes it so hard to see that leadership is the most important thing? What do you think makes it so hard to see?

I stumped. Good deal, Dave.

No, there's a couple things. First is I don't think people.

Realize how impactful leadership is. They almost convince themselves that, hey, what we can do is if we bring in people with these skills or our software suite and they get so wrapped up in all these other components, they lose sight of the fact that this thing, this intangible thing that you can't really track with the spreadsheet, they lose sight of how important it is. And I think the other part that we're seeing a lot now is people lose sight of how often you have to keep addressing leadership. And so they think it's sometimes like, hey, no, I understand what a good leadership is like. And they think they are applying it, but they don't realize that, hey, I've got to keep addressing this over and over and over again. And they lose sight of not just how important it is, but also how hard it is to sustain it. And when we come work with companies, the more we work with them and the longer we work with them, the more they want to keep doing. And they realize, man, I had no idea how long this journey was going to be. But the ones that figure it out, dude, they, they, they elevate so quickly. They get so good so fast when they make it a priority.

Yeah.

The first thing that you said, you, you, you are de facto not detached. When you're inside of a company, you're firefighting day to day, you're trying to figure out what the next quarter is going to be and you're trying to figure out what's going on with the sales team. So you're just in it. And so you, you start to lose track of the fact that this is, this is a. All about leadership. Yeah. So that happens. And that's why when we come in with a company, we can immediately see because we are detached. That is part of it. The other, the other cool thing analogy here is when you start doing jiu jitsu, you, you know, you get through that point where you realize how much you don't know and you realize, oh, wow, I got a lot to learn. And a leader, you know, you can read the book and be like, you can read extreme ownership Be like, oh yeah, I got this. But that's like the first two, three moves that you learned in jiu jitsu and you think you're good to go, but you don't realize you need to drill, you need to practice, you need to see there's so much more to learn. So those are the things I think that, yeah, can, can inhibit people from recognizing what we say all the time. What? What? Every freaking book that I read says leadership's the most important thing. So getting into what General Hodges had to say. Few division commanders are satisfied with the qualities of a major percentage of their platoon commanders. Ouch. Too many of them are lacking in aggressive leadership, self reliance and ability to meet emergencies. Inefficiency of officers in this group in carrying out orders strictly and in making accurate reports as to locations, dispositions and information gained was especially stressed by one division commander.

So that's a horrible outlook. And if you feel that way, what are you supposed to do about it? That's why you need to implement training for your subordinate leaders.

And that's exactly what this next recommendation is. Course for NCOs that's non commissioned officers. Lack of leadership on the part of non commissioned officers was also frequently reported in one division in reserve. A special course was designed to develop more aggressive leadership in non commissioned officers and to make squad. To make the squad a real fighting team trained to use the firepower of its weapons to the maximum. This leadership course consisted principally in what is termed battle drill.

While most comments on leadership deal mainly with leadership during actual contact with the enemy. The true leader, recognizing the responsibilities of his position, must exercise leadership at all times. He must be unsparing in his efforts to take care of his units by providing for the comfort of his personnel and at the same time ensuring proper maintenance and safeguarding of their equipment.

Exercise leadership at all times.

And isn't it interesting? Leadership strategy and tactics. What's the most important thing you got to take care of your people? What is this unsparing in your efforts? Even as you read. Even as I read that the first time I read it, I read unsparing in his efforts and you think it's going to say to provide the discipline mandatory for combat operations, but no.

Unsparing in his efforts to take care of his units by providing the comfort. And there's the dichotomy. At the same time ensuring proper maintenance and safeguarding their equipment. And what it should say there is their training. Right? It's talking about safeguarding their maintenance and equipment. That's cool. But you got to make sure that they're well trained and ready to rock and roll when the time comes.

Irresponsibility in this connection comment of Colonel Maurice E. Barker, 5th Army, Italy, is interesting. Younger officers seem to lack a sense of responsibility for for the men under their care and for the equipment entrusted to them. They seem to feel that there is an inexhaustible supply of equipment and that all they have to do is throw stuff away when they no longer need it. Of course, the non commissioned officer follow their the non commissioned officers follow their lead. This lack of responsibility is tremendously important and something drastic must be done about it. Hey, Colonel Maurice E. Barker, you know who should do something about it? You should. Because if your junior officers are lacking the sense of responsibility, guess what? Whose fault is that? Yes, yours. That's one part. The other thing that I underlined here is of course, the non commissioned officers follow their lead and that's a subconscious thing that happens. You get somebody in charge and you get somebody that's.

What in whatever they're doing, where they're underperforming or they're treating things as if they don't matter, or they're throwing equipment away, treat whatever they're doing, the junior people are going to follow them. That's the way it works.

Along this same line, Lt. Col. E.W. gibson, G2, 43rd Division, New Georgia, commented, The Chief fault of the inexperienced officer is that he does not realize his responsibilities with respect to looking out for his men, finding them food and water, checking their bivouac and seeing to their clothing. If he will evidence his concern for their welfare, he can forget about morale. They'll fight.

If he will evidence his concern for their welfare, he can forget about morale. They'll fight.

Who would have thought that if you actually take care of your people, they'll fight?

Did it say, hey, if you bark orders at your people, they'll fight? No, didn't say that. Did it say, hey, if you impose hardcore discipline on them, they'll fight? No, didn't say that either. What you have to do is just show evidence of your concern for their welfare and then they'll fight.

Widespread effect Junior officers and non commissioned officers seldom realize the widespread effect on major operations of their failure to do their particular jobs properly. Being an excellent fighter is not enough. Unless the junior leader performs his other command functions in an efficient manner, the resulting failure of his personnel or equipment can imperil the whole action of a major unit.

Once again, if my people don't recognize that, whose fault is it? And this one's. This one in particular isn't casting the blame, but it should say, make sure you tell your junior officers and non commissioned officers what the widespread effect of their failure would be.

The following comment is from The Division Commander, 36th Division Italy, at Salerno. Carelessness was noted in the landing of communications equipment. Most communications failures are believed to be the result of careless handling of the equipment by personnel. Without communications, even the best trained troops are very often cannot be employed where desired. So, yeah, didn't waterproof your radio correctly and everything falls apart. Threw your radio into the bottom of the landing craft and it got banged around and the tubes broke. Total failure. Why? Because no one emphasized the fact that, hey, your job as the radio man is the most important job of anyone out there. And if we can't make communications, doesn't matter what else happens. If we can't make communications, we're gonna fall apart.

Next section, Practice and more practice. Commanding General 3rd Infantry Division Italy the development of, of leadership is largely a matter of practice. Practice in leading. Make these lieutenants actually lead. Exercise their voice and issue commands. Require high standards of physical condition. Always got to throw that in there.

Make these lieutenants actually lead.

Having James Webb on when he went through the basic school and then got done with the basic school and then had 12 days of leave and then he landed in Vietnam and they drove him out through the AO and then pointed at a ridgeline and said, there's your platoon up there. Okay, who am I replacing? Well, you're not replacing anyone. The lieutenant that was there is no longer there because he was dead or wounded. So there's a sergeant that's been running the platoon. Go take over. Walk up the hill. He takes over that night, he's calling for fire. Total mayhem. And he was. I was like, were you ready for that? And he said, yes, that's squared away.

Were you ready for that action coming out of OCS or coming out of. Coming out of the basic school?

Dude, I'm listening to you talk about this and the first thing I'm thinking is it sounds like somebody read this and took some action. Because I was the beneficiary of. By the time I got in the Marine Corps, the NCOs, the middle level enlisted Marines that on paper were subordinate to me, but really were way more experienced than me. They didn't let me fail. And so I can tell you right now, Second Lieutenant Burke, when he had his first group of Marines, was an idiot. But I was lucky because rather than my subordinate enlisted Marines kind of following whatever stupidity I might be, they were put, hey, sir, actually, hey, sir, a better way to do it might be this or something, but I got really good leadership up the chain. So that lesson, that lesson somehow has taken hold from this 1944 to now because Marines are taught from the get go. The smartest thing you can do as a young lieutenant is listen to your staff NCOs, listen to your gunnies, your staff sergeants, those Marines who on paperwork for you. You're gonna learn a lot from them. And thank God my junior enlisted didn't listen to me at all. They understood that they needed to lead up the chain.

And.

For me to look at you and I said, yeah, I would be ready. No way. I was ready. When I walked out of TBS and I walked into whatever that first thing that I did, had I not had that leadership up the chain, I would have struggled much more than I did. Much more than I did.

The other thing I take away from this is.

You need to practice, practice in leading, right? And there was.

There'S situations in business, right, because we work mostly with businesses. Now what you have is an opportunity to train leaders all the time, day in, day out. There's always situations where decisions need to get made, where there's low level decisions that need to get made, where there's medium level decisions that need to get made, where there's high level decisions, where maybe you still need to make the decision, but at least you can allow them to attempt to make that decision and maybe get corrected or maybe get, maybe get a pat on the back for, hey, good way to think through that issue. So this does happen. And if you think about the fact that every opportunity you get, you say, you know what? Hey, junior personnel, why don't you run this project? Why don't you organize that logistical movement that needs to take place? Why don't you run that meeting? Every time you get that opportunity, take it. Because that is what you are doing. You are letting your subordinate leaders practice leading and they need it. And you let them do it in an environment where, look, I'm gonna let them run an in house meeting with just our company. So that way if they screw it up, no one sees it, it's okay, we can debrief it later. I'm not gonna let them go out and brief the client on what we're gonna do and have them drop the ball on that. But after I see them perform, well, three or four or five in house meetings, and they've got control and they're confident and they're doing a good job. Cool. Hey, why don't you brief this part of this thing to the client?

Okay.

Yeah. And then we go from there. So, as a leader, every opportunity that you get, give your subordinates all the way down to the front lines the opportunity to practice leading by actually leading. Let them lead some stuff.

Yeah. And most decisions that we make in business and anyone like most decisions, aren't catastrophic. Most of the decisions, even if we get them wrong, they aren't going to destroy our company or have these catastrophic effects. And that's not to say it's a free pass. You still need to have these guardrails in place. You don't want your people to be able to drive the truck off the road. But the truth of the matter is, is that giving your people opportunities to lead isn't that hard. Because even the things that you push down to their level and help them when they get it wrong, which they will, most of those will not undermine your company. Now, be smart. Just like you said. I'm not just going to cut loose my brand new guy, take this high. Our number one client, our biggest moneymaker. Just go figure it out. Call me when you're done. But the decisions that we make, there are so many opportunities to let other people even get along a little bit and get involved, have a small part of it and watch that grow and just have confidence that the decisions, most of the decisions we make aren't going to lead to catastrophe.

Yeah. Yeah. I did that piece on EF online. I don't know, maybe a month or two ago, it was that. It was like, listen, very few decisions that you make are final decisions. In fact, almost none of them. And furthermore, just about every interaction you have is up for further negotiation. So if Dave and I are arguing about something and Dave wants to do A and I want to do B, we can walk away. And it's not like that is what's going to happen in most cases. Most of the time, there's going to be further negotiation. And if I maybe subordinate my ego and say, all right, Dave, let's go with your plan, I. I can go back and reinsert some of the things that I thought might be a little bit smoother if we did it the way I was thinking. And once we start to see that, it's good, so we move forward with a little bit more negotiation. And you're right. Those are the opportunities where you let people lead. You know, what prevents us from doing that is when I want to be in charge, man, it feels Good to be the man, right? Feels good to be the man.

What's crazy about that is that you as when you're my boss, you're the guy in charge. When you take something that you're responsible for and you give it to me, you don't look weak. You actually look even stronger than you are. Like, that fear of that, hey, I want to be in charge. I look like I'm in charge? When you give people on your team that work for you the chance to lead, and if you actually put yourself in a position to follow them, you look so much stronger than when you refuse to ever do that.

You want to know something that I haven't quite figured out yet? I know it exists. I know it happens. I know it's a thing.

But.

It has to do with detachment. It has to do with perspective. It has to do with ego. It's these three things. So you have. You have perspective, you have detachment, and you have ego. So here's what happens, Dave. Let's say I do something. Let's just. The scenario that you just gave, right? If I'm the boss and you work for me, and I walk in and say, hey, Dave, you know what? We got this project.

Why don't you go ahead and take ownership of this thing and run with it? Now.

When we look at that, we know. We know that from the outside. That increases your respect for me, right? But how often do we see someone that goes, dave, here's what we're doing, and here's how we're doing it. Because in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, well, Dave doesn't want to think that I don't know what I'm doing. Dave needs to know that I have the plan, and he needs to know that actually I'm the boss. So even though when you're not in it, you know that it's a bad move, but you do it. Or. Sorry, when you're not in it. Yeah, when you're not in it. You know what the right thing or the wrong thing to do is? We just make that mistake all the time. I see it. I play this game with clients, like, who would you hire? Who would you fire?

When. When. If Echo's in charge of us, and Echo walks in and you and I were in charge of a project or we were working together on a project, and Echo says, hey, you guys missed the deadline. And I go, well, it's because Dave didn't finish his part of the project because he is late. And then Dave walks in the office and Eklis says, what happened? And Dave says, well, you know what? I actually need to perform a couple things. I could have done a better job here. I should have supported Jocko a little bit more so that we could have completed the project. Okay, which guy are you going to give the next project to? You're going to give it to the guy who took ownership all day long. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows that. And here's the thing that I haven't quite figured out. Everybody knows that. And. And then when they're in it, they say, oh, it's Dave's fault. It's just the way it's so horrible. It's like a lesson that you try and teach to people over and over and over again. The lesson is detach. Take your ego out of it and understand it from the boss's perspective or from the subordinate's perspective. See it from the other person's perspective, and you'll see it's so obvious that you're making a bad call. It's so obvious that you're making a bad call, but when you're in it, you do it. So detach. Take your ego out of the picture and see the other person's perspective, which, by the way, when you tell someone a story or you show someone example, that's exactly what's happening. They're detached. Their ego's out of it because it's not them. And they see the better perspective because they're not in it.

There's a little. There's a little triangle of justice, a little triangle of how to proceed and assess what you're doing. It's detachment, it's perspective, and it's ego. If you can remember those three little things, that little triangle, decision making, it's gonna. It's gonna put you in the right place way more often than if you lose either one, any of those three. You put your ego in there, it doesn't matter. It overrules them. You don't see the perspective now. You don't know what's happening. You're not detached. You're in it. You lose.

All right. Every infantry lieutenant should be thoroughly trained in firing all the infantry weapons. He cannot know too much about them. He may have to fire directed fire of several weapons, and he never knows when. Good, good. Next thing, theory is not enough. A thorough and practical knowledge of his job is the basis for efficient leadership. This knowledge must be gained in a practical way by exercising leadership under all conditions. Too much of our leadership training has been theoretical in nature. There has been too much dependence on listening to lectures.

Opportunity must be given to the junior officer to put the theoretical knowledge to practice by actually leading. Criticisms of errors made must be so couched that they do not destroy the initiative and spirit of the individual. Just when you think like, you know, you. Yeah, well, I really come up with this thing about how to debrief people and how to do it in a nice way so that they actually receive it. Hey, this is 19. What I say, 44, 43. These guys are already figured all this out.

Theoretical. This is what's nice about role playing. This is what's nice about the FTX program, and this is what's nice about living in a business where you can actually put people in leadership positions where they can practice the theory that we're talking about. Because someone can. You can explain to someone how to do a jump shot basketball. You can explain that to them for two weeks. They'll have a concept in their mind. But they got to go, probably. They got to get on the foul line.

Leadership on the beach. Fifth amphibious core, Tarawa squad and platoon leaders must expect that the mixing of units and an apparent state of confusion are normal in an operation of this nature. When troops have gained the beach and coordinated battalion and company attacks are broken up by the enemy pillbox defenses, leaders, whether lieutenants, corporals, or privates, must take the initiative and push on with the men in the vicinity, whether of their own units or not. This assault was very successful because men moved on in spite of heavy losses.

So I was talking about something with Daryl Cooper on the Unraveling podcast.

We have something called an error box when you're doing a dive underwater. And the error box is when you're diving underwater, you're being impacted by the currents and the tide and your own physical.

Productivity as you dive. So if I put you on a blindfold and put you underwater in a pool, right. And said, dive in a straight line, and you were blindfolded, you would not dive in a straight line. You'd be a little bit off. Then if I gave you a compass, you could maintain a little bit better, but you'd still be off a little bit. It wouldn't be perfect. And then you put tide and current, and now you're gonna be off. I assume it's very similar to flying a plane. Like, a plane may drift a little bit to the left, right? Totally. Okay, so it's the same thing. Yep. So what you have to do when you're diving is you dive so that you can. You want to. What you're looking for is a reset, a reset point where you know exactly where you are. So example, if you're going to dive in a bay or in a harbor, you would aim. The first thing you would do is aim at a big quay wall that's 500 yards long. You're not going to miss that. Even if you had to dive 500 yards to get to that quay wall, it's a massive target. But when you get to that target, you might have drifted 20 or 30 yards to left, or 20 or 30 yards to right, or even 40 or 50 or 60 yards to left or right, depending on the tides, depending on the current. So when you actually hit that quay wall, you have where you are. What you've done is you've landed inside the error box.

So then what you do is you take a right hand turn when you hit that quay wall. Once you take that right hand turn, you go to the end of the quay wall till you get to the corner. Now guess what, you know exactly where you are and then you're next. You can swim your next leg. But you've tightened up that error box.

So.

What we need to do when we're planning is we need to figure out if we can reset that error box at any point, how can we do it. And if we can't do it, then we need to pay attention to that. So what we were talking about actually was Syria. And you go into Syria and you think, hey, we're gonna do this little thing in Syria and it will have this impact and we'll be good to go. And what you're saying is, I'm gonna hit with one, I'm gonna hit right where I'm aiming for. Well, what are the chances of that? They're not really good. So what do you do? Oh, you need to figure it out. You need to figure out if it's the error box is, hey, we might go 10 to 10 to the left, 10 to the right. Now we know. And by the way, if we don't get a reset there, our next leg is going to have an even bigger error box. So when you look at something in a strategic way like Syria, what your assumption has to be, you have to go through that whole thing as if you're error box never got reset and you missed every single time. And by the end of it, then you have to look at the total cost of what it would take to solve that ultimate situation. And that's what you have to be willing to commit. And we don't do that. What we say is, well, we'll go in and do this, and it'll have this impact. And then from that perfect spot that we know, we'll do something else and it will be perfect again. And so the same thing happens in business. What people unfortunately have a tendency to do is they plan with a positive attitude. And we don't want to plan with a positive attitude. We don't want to say, well, you know, Dave, if we make drinks, we're gonna, we're gonna. If we put, if we put drinks in a can, our assumption is they'll all. Every can is going to be perfect. There'll be no error. Well, there's going to be error. And then once we. Once they get to the stores, while they're getting shipped to the stores, nothing's going to happen to any of them. There's going to be no damaged goods. And then once they're in the store, none of them are going to get stolen. And then once they're bought at the store, none of them are going to get returned. Right. So if you have that attitude, it's a mistake. So you have to plan with a negative attitude at least to be able to cover whatever contingencies you have at the end of the day, which is, you know what? People will buy it. Right. That's the last thing you say is once the cans are in the store, people are definitely gonna buy it because I like the way this tastes. Well, actually, that's not necessarily true. Your taste buds are different than everyone else's in the world, so you can't assume that, oh, this is just gonna fly off the shelf. No.

What are you willing to invest if your error is calculated and exponentially increased every phase of your operation? Think about that to keep yourself out of trouble.

Orientation then. This is ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. The need for explanation. The American soldier always performs better if he knows the whys and where force of the problem confronting him. So wherefores. This is a word we're going to bring back into usage.

Because what wherefores means, it's. It's for the cause or reason or for which reason you're doing something. That's what wherefore means. So you need to know the whys and the wherefores. You need to know the reason that you're doing something.

His willing and intelligent cooperation can be gained if commanders will take the time and effort to explain the situation, the mission, the plan devised to accomplishment, the effect success will have on the general situation. In short, everything concerning the operation that the time and available information will permit. Wow. It's crazy.

This is why you don't. You don't want me as a co host, because all I want to do is sit here and just listen to.

You read this thing.

I don't want to say anything because I'm listening to that and like, God, that is so good.

Yeah, it's so good. And yet how often do we run into a company and the front lines and you go to talk to them and they don't understand why they're doing something?

It's.

It's, it's so straightforward. I was thinking earlier. Yes. That question right at the beginning. Sometimes we, when we start working with companies, one of the reasons why they reach out to us is even in these. They'll have these initial calls. They just reach out. They want to have just a call about what does Echelon Front do? And one of the things they'll say is, like, listen, we don't really know how to do leadership training. We don't really know what to do. So that's why they reach out to us.

That's why the book. That's why extreme ownership is so good. And that's why listening to this stuff is so good. Because this stuff isn't complicated. It's not complex. And we create these things in our mind that it's so difficult and it's so nuanced. Leadership is so simple. Now, the application is hard.

It is hard, totally.

But the reason the book is so good and the reason why I listen to this, like, how much more straightforward does that be? Explain to your people why they're doing what they're doing and they'll do better. And then we see those missteps at every single level, and our job is to find out, hey, why aren't you explaining it to your people? Sometimes it's like you said, hey, their ego gets in the way they want. They don't want to look weak. And when we pull them back and give them that detachment, their perspective, we go, hey, do you think as a leader, if you just spend a little bit of time telling your people why they're doing what they're doing, will that make you look worse or better as a leader? They get the answer right every single time. But it's because we're coming in from the outside, helping them see it in a way that they wouldn't see it before. But none of the answers are complex. And as I'm sitting here like, I don't want to co host this. I just want to listen to this book be read out loud. Because there's that simplicity to it. But he's talking about the World War II battlefield in my brain. It's like that fits everywhere. That's every company we've ever worked with. It's every problem I've ever had. It's all the same thing.

Yeah. And for anyone that's worried about, well, what if you don't have time? Yeah, there's gonna be times we don't have time. And guess what? If you've done this time and time again and now you're making a call, people go, got it. He's gonna fill me in later, but he's telling me this for a reason, and I'm gonna move forward. Yeah, back to the book. Such explanations will do much to forestall rumors, anxiety, and mass hysteria, all factors which contribute to incidents of war, neurosis cases, which is, you know, people shell shock or. Or I guess. I guess it's not PTSD if it's during the conflict. Right. But guys breaking down, if people know why they're doing what they're doing, they will have much less of a chance of breaking down. And we actually talked about this, you know, late. They've talked about the fact that we. One thing that we could have done better is explain the bigger picture of what was happening. And the reason we saw, the reason this became so obvious is because the guys in Task Unit Bruiser that were involved in the planning and that were involved in picking targets, that were involved in figuring out where we're going to position, overwatches that were going to battalion level briefs, and these were all different guys throughout the chain of command, whether it was the point man, whether it was the lead sniper, whether it was the platoon commander, the platoon chief. But they all understood the why and the wherefores. The guys that we were saying, hey, get your gear on, and going on another mission, those were the guys that had that. That had a rougher time of it psychologically. So that's on us. That's on me. And. And, you know, as Leif explains in the book, when we got back and we put together the brief that I was briefing to the. The Naval special warfare community at large about what we had done and Leif, for the first time put together, wow, we went and helped the 11 AD win back the city. Even he didn't. Hadn't really assembled that in his head. So I'm sitting there and he said that. He's like, man, we really had a big impact. And I'm, like, ashamed, because if he didn't really See that? How in God's name could one of his frontline guys see it? Now look, part of this is because that trust that Leif did have and Seth, same thing like, hey, we're gonna go get after it. You know what those guys say? Roger, point me in the direction of bad guys and we will go and get after it. But not everyone's feeling that way, especially two months, three months, four months, five months into a deployment. Whose fault is that? 100% on me. 100% on me. So.

There you go. There it's plain as day. Explain to your people the whys and wherefores.

It also makes them. It also makes them more resilient when things go wrong. So when, you know, we.

You talk about losing somebody, you talk about just the devastating effect of losing someone on your team. Those are the type of events that you can fully understand why people want to just tap out. They just don't want to keep going through this. And we were going to memorials, I think we had a stretch in our beginning. It was 60 kia in 30 days. Something really bad. The more connected you are, the more you understand those things, the easier it is for you to look at that. It's no less. It's still soul crushing, but you can still power through that if you understand. But if you don't understand and you are disconnected, those type of critical events, those catastrophic events, dudes will tap out all over the place. And so it also allows you to endure the hardest things are going to happen. And the more connected you are, the more you can understand why you need to keep moving forward when those things happen.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And on top of that, what I initially thought you were going to say was, by the way, this is the foundation of decentralized command. Because what they're talking about, they're not talking about decentralized, they're just talking about willing and intelligent cooperation, which I guess is, you know, you can interpret as decentralized command. But if you want somebody to be able to make decisions and lead out on the battlefield, they need to know the whys and wherefores of what's happening. This is the foundation of decentralized command. On top of that, what you said is absolutely true. And by the way, it doesn't only apply to combat, it applies to a business where, guess what? We got to lay off 28 people and no one feels good about that. And if they don't understand that, it's how we're going to keep the company afloat and how we're going to move forward. And this is exactly what the numbers look like. And this is why we need to make this decision. If it's just, hey, I'm a business, you know, we're a business, and we got to get rid of some people. Right now, it's like, no. Why?

Next method of dissemination, if possible, this orientation should be conducted by the leaders in immediate contact with the soldier by the individual he instinctively looks to for guidance during the stress and strain of combat. It should reach the private soldier through his squad leader, the squad leader by means of the section or platoon leader, the platoon leader from the company commander, and so on.

However, each higher echelon of command must be certain that the information is carefully and accurately disseminated by those next lower in the chain of command. This method of orientation also tends to enhance the prestige and influence of each echelon of leaders with those junior to them.

So you want to utilize the chain of command to put this information out. That elevates them. Now, there's a dichotomy to this. And outed the EF Battlefield that we did out at Gettysburg. We had some clients out there talking about leadership principles. And one of the leadership principles that I talked about was the horse's mouth. Because there are certain things.

Well, in Task Unit Bruiser, there are certain things that I had to tell the team. There was no. There was no. I didn't want there to be any of the. Of the misinterpretation of any kind. I am going to tell. There's been a change in the ROE there's been a change in our overall mission set. That's not getting interpreted through the chain of command. And I'm going to hope that the. That the fireteam leader.

Conveys the same message. Nope. It's going to come from me. You know, so out there at EF Battlefield, you know, there was a CEO that was saying, hey.

I feel like the message isn't always getting to the front lines. And when it comes to important things, that can be a problem. I'm like, yes, absolutely, if it's something that is super important. There's been a legal change or a regulatory change in what's happening in the way we do business. I would be having a video teleconference and saying, hey, hey, everyone. Good to talk to you. I know I haven't talked to you in a few weeks, but here's what's going on. We got this major change. I wanted you all to hear it from me. I already briefed your leaders on it, but I wanted to make sure you didn't have any questions. So when it is a significant change sometimes got to come from the horse's mouth. By the way, if you get to do that in an optimum way, what you do is you pre brief your leaders, you give them the opportunity to brief their troops and then you say, hey, everyone, we get together just to reemphasize what you heard. Boom. A little bit of both.

Next one. Tell the story. Colonel Earl Maxwell Surgeon, New Georgia. A soldier needs to know what is going on, what is expected of him, what he may expect to encounter. He must have a definite objective or goal. Without these, he's an automaton with no personal interest in the efforts of his unit and is entirely unprepared when the unexpected or un unexplainable happens. Without the proper orientation, he is more prone to absorb wild rumors, loose talk, misinformation, all resulting in constant mental stress and strain evidenced by apprehension, fear, anxiety, incoherence and confusion.

There you go.

There you go.

You don't look. We worry about, hey, people aren't going to do what I want them to do because I didn't tell them. But what about the fact that now they're scared? Now they don't know what's happening. Now there's increased stress because they think they might get fired tomorrow. They think they're laying off half the fort. All those things. Put those things to rest.

Next section the after the fight conference, every effort must be made to emphasize the important part each individual plays in the successful combat of his unit. A method used by one infantry regiment to accomplish this and at the same time provide information which would furnish background orientation is described in the following comment. They eat it up. This little section is called Major Kermit Hansen, 34th Infantry Division, Italy. While I was S2 of an infantry regiment, that's the intelligence guy. I found that it aided the efficiency of the regiment to have material assembled as the fight was going on. When a battalion was pulled out for arrest, all the men and officers were assembled in a group. First, I would use the collected material to give them the whole picture from the viewpoint of the army corps and division. And then I would get down to more detail on just what the battalion had done, what German units they had fought, and how many casualties they had caused the enemy. Such a conference keeps the men abreast of the situation, increases their morale and keeps up their fighting spirit. The men eat it up during this. After the fight conference, I would emphasize how much of our information regarding the enemy was obtained from prisoner of war interrogation, impressing upon them how disastrous talking could be if they were captured.

So this is taking a debrief, a post operational debrief, and taking it to the next level. Sliding in, a little psychological warfare on the troops.

If you're the. If you're down at the bottom of the org chart, you're a frontline guy. And not just the military. You don't have to be, you know, a private or a rifleman. It's the same thing in business. You've got your frontline sales folks that are out there. If you. As a leader and look, if you're the CEO, your key leader, you've got the big picture. If your folks on your team at the very front can picture in their minds how that one little action they take goes all the way up. And he's described the viewpoint of the army like we're invading Europe. This is a big viewpoint. And he's trying to get that connection all the way down to that one little action you take. When he says to eat it up, the first thing that popped my mind is they feel like they have ownership. What they do matters. If you think what you do matters and you can actually understand how what you do matters, you as a CEO, you can kind of. You can leave. You don't need to be here anymore. You can pack it up and let your people go do their thing. And a lot of times we're like, I don't have time to explain. You have to make the time to explain it. Because if your people make that connection, it makes your life so much easier because they feel like they own this. That is such a powerful thing.

Yeah. You invest $1 in effort in explaining to people what's happening, and it pays dividends tenfold.

Yeah.

There's a section here called Battlefield Gallantry, which by its very title must be read.

Here's the subtitle. He didn't know when he was beaten.

7Th Army, Sicily. During one of the more fluid situations in the Sicilian fighting. And I love that because you just know how completely crazy it was. But this is even one of the more fluid situations. The wire line running from a battalion command post to the rear suddenly went out. Sergeant Joseph Gorleski, with three men, started back to check and repair the brake. After they had traveled about one half mile, they were ambushed by a patrol of 30 Germans. So that's four, four against 30 who had managed to infiltrate our position. Sergeant Gorleski and two men were wounded while the third man was killed. So they're down to three.

The German patrol leader called, in perfect English, give up, you crazy Americans. Although severely Wounded and outnumbered 10 to 1, Sgt. Gorleski ordered his men to open rapid fire. After emptying his rifle, the sergeant rushed the enemy with hand grenades. The German patrol, surprised by the unexpected stubborn resistance, was defeated and driven off with the loss of a number of its men.

There you go.

Battlefield gallantry.

Aggressive action.

Cover and move.

Getting after it.

Sergeant Gorleski. Just, just getting some next little section protected by valor. The Germans have a nasty habit at times of opening fire at extreme ranges and making you advance under it. While this long range fire is not particularly dangerous. Dangerous, it is very disconcerting. The platoon of which Private Shelby R. Horde was a member, had been advancing under this long range fire until, despite several casualties, they had secured a position within 300 yards of the gun which had been harassing them. From here on, there was no cover. This did not deter Private Horde, who, suddenly springing to his feet, raced some 250 yards until he was within hand grenade. Throwing range with four grenades, he silenced the gun and rushing in, killed four of the remaining enemy and wounded three others with his carbine. He then turned the machine gun on other enemy elements in the vicinity.

The success of his apparently suicidal rush demonstrates the fact that valor can sometimes provide protective armor. The enemy simply did not realize that any man would try such a thing and were not ready to put their fire on him.

By the way, he's got an. He's got a wing too, because he got. It was 300 yards away, he closed 250 yards and then he made grenade shots at 50 yards.

Credit.

General Douglas MacArthur it should be constantly emphasized that there must be no thought of surrender as long as it is possible to do damage to the enemy. The men at Baton and Corregidor fulfilled this condition. However, in some cases we have not done so. The Japanese soldiers always do. Unless all our individuals also do it, we will suffer serious setbacks before Japan is conquered. And the word individuals is italicized.

And obviously it's italicized for a reason. It's like, hey, at an individual level, you cannot surrender. If you can still do damage to the enemy, you cannot surrender.

Next thing, reorganization after the attack. Don't waste time. I mean, you could just, just say don't waste time. Lt. Col. Murphy Infantry, Italy when an objective is captured, immediately push reconnaissance elements of the supporting weapons unit forward behind the rifleman. Get rifle groups out for security. As soon as the position is captured, have the weapons platoons immediately take position to beat off a Counter attack, displace promptly at least one half of the heavy weapons company forward to capture the objective or to the captured objective. Get your artillery observer up front and hurry. We were taught all these things and they are still perfectly sound.

So what he's saying, and my point for this is you get that advantageous moment and.

The gravitational pull will be to take a breath to relax. Don't do that.

Continues on here. Delay brings trouble. Where an outfit gets into trouble is it is usually because they haven't pushed these points hard enough. When they waste time just a little, instead of getting set and moving stuff forward at once.

You probably will have only a little time to dig in before the counterattack hits. But if you set with. If you get set without delay, you will be all right, whether you plan to keep going or hold what you've captured.

In football, there's a strategy called the no huddle, no huddle offense. That's literally exactly what that is. Where, you know, with football, run a play, you know, they blow the whistle, take a little time, everybody, yeah, the offense goes back to the huddle, formulates their next play. They come to the line, same thing, defensive huddle, all this stuff, right? Then they come to the line, they make the call, Boom. They run another play. You go, no huddle offense. Right? When the, you know, the guy gets tackled or whatever, you're back, boom, right on the line. Quarterback calls the play from the line in code. Real fast, too, usually.

Isn't that more fun?

No, it's freaking tiring. Super tiring. So you gotta, you gotta kind of. You gotta be ready for it. You gotta train for it, for sure. But what it does is the defense are used to that rhythm, you know, that sprint, rest, huddle, get set. You know, all that stuff. You. If you run a no huddle offense and they're not ready for it, you get one, two plays ahead of them. Brother, you'll just march down the field if you don't take it.

So why doesn't that just happen all the time?

Because it's tiring.

I know, but why doesn't someone train up a squad where they're like, okay, this is what we're doing?

Well, so when I played in high school, the, you know, Kauai is a small island, so the Waimea was the other team. We were playing and they were. I forget if we beat them last time or it was closer. I don't know. I forget what happened the last time. But this, we were going to play them again. And the word on the street was they were just going to beat us like, bad. They're gonna beat us bad. And I always was thinking, like, why. Why would they even say that? You know, like, we're even if they beat us. We're like competitive. So it doesn't. It wasn't making sense. It seemed like they had something brewing. Sure enough, they come out with the no huddle unexpected. I was like. And they just marched down the field.

How many times they do it until.

I don't remember, but until they scored and they throw it and it was all like, quarterback, keep. You know what that means? No, like, instead of like giving it to the running back or throwing it, the quarterback gets the ball from the center and just runs it. Oh, but these are all formulated plays where he just. He's running on the outside. He's running the left side, right side, middle, like, and they're just coming. And I remember I was on.

That guy was kind of a beast, huh?

Yeah. Aaron Chun was his name.

Did he make it? Did he make it to the NFL or anything?

Oh, no, not that I know of, but he made it. The offense made it to the Enzo, I'll tell you that. And I remember just how, like victory. Yeah. I remember thinking, man, whole. I remember thinking, Brian, you guys go huddle. Like, I can't like get my. Get my act together here to tackle nobody because you're just so on your toes the whole time.

Here's the other thing. Okay, so. So there's that. And I still. You haven't really answered my question, which is if you're a coach where you just say, hey, we're actually going to condition ourselves in a different way, in a non traditional way, and we're going to be ready just to. And we're never going to huddle.

Yeah, you. The thing is, that's a huge undertaking. The thing is we do. That's a common conditioning method is like no huddle offense for like, I don't know, 10 minutes, 20 minutes or whatever. Like that's part of football conditioning, practice and stuff. Because when you go no huddle, you better buckle up. There's no substitutions.

I wonder if you would just get guys that were different. Like they'd. All of a sudden they'd be smaller and skinnier and have more. Have less power. And then you'd end up with a team that even though they could run the no huddle offense on defense, they would just get. They would get run through methodically.

Yeah. Wait, what do you mean?

Meaning if everyone else on the other team is just Jacking steel and doing cleans with 315. And they're going up against a bunch of guys that are weighing in at 170 because they're doing this no huddle offense all time. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, I could see it.

You'd end up with different physiques.

Yes, for sure. And some teams, they'll. They'll kind of have that more in their strategy, you know, and, you know, sometimes they pass the ball more or they run the ball more or some, you know, some know, huddle.

That's like somebody quarterback keeps a lot.

As a. As opposed to quarterback sneak, which is different.

Yeah.

Anyway. No, well, I would say the explanation for that is it can be risky because if you're going no huddle, no huddle, no huddle, and then the defense is like, oh, we're ready for the no huddle. Then it's like, man, you get shut down. And it's like, all right, it's different.

I understand.

Yeah. Now you're left.

The other thing I sometimes wonder about football is, you know, you see like a trick play on YouTube.

Yeah.

How come everything's just not a trick? You know what I mean?

Because they're risky. Just like jiu jitsu. Like, you do those trick moves in jiu jitsu, you get like a group of people, people who figured out that trick, bro, they're going to shove it up you're. They're not going to. It's not going to work. We'll say that it becomes not a trick play now. It's no longer a trick play when people know. So. Yeah, and there. There are teams who. And that's actually kind of how the no huddle is too. It's kind of. It's. I wouldn't call it in the realm of trick plays, but it's kind of one of those things that's. It's unorthodox. So the unorthodox ness of it is part of the advantage, you know? So it's like there's another play called the reverse, right? It's like a. We'll call it a common trick play. Yep, I know.

That's a Go to the other side of the field, right?

No, it's.

Damn. I'm showing my ignorance here.

Yes, sir. But it's okay. You're good at a lot of things.

Football ain't one of them.

Or reverse is like, let's say, okay, so you get 11 guys essentially, right? You got the quarterback behind the center, and they say, set down, hunt, whatever, Right. If It's a running play. If it's. You can run it up the middle, right? That's usually for short yardage situations. We only need three yards for this. First number, whatever. Power through. Exactly.

Right jump. I might even jump three maybe.

Maybe that's more of a one yard half yard situation, but whatever, right? Then there's like an outside run, which is you can either give it to the running back and he'll run on the outside. But anyway, whatever side you're running and right side, left side, whatever. There's no like, there's no like, oh, we always run to the right side. We always run. You know, there tends not to be that much of that going on. But when you run, when a play is going to the right side, we'll say you can see it all 11 guys start, look, if I'm on the.

First line, they go back to the other side now, right?

This is how they do it though.

So I was right.

I guess that's an ambiguous statement. Go to the other side. So I don't know, maybe.

So what's about to happen?

So they either pretend, I mean, there's plenty of ways to do it, but. But they basically show that this play is running to the right. And then they say the running back is running to the right with the ball. If I'm on the O line on the, for the front, the front line guys, you're going to step right, because you got to get in front of the defense this way because they're running behind me. See what I'm saying? So when you look at the offense as a defender, you see the whole offense as a group. They flow to a certain side. You know, that's where they're going. Yeah, pass play. They're just going to sort of stay in place because the quarterback is dropping back. You got to pass. The receivers go right. So you can see all this stuff on the defense. So boom, the whole offense is flowing this one side. Your natural tendency is to roll that side right?

Fast, hard. And then what happens?

The one receiver or maybe the tight end or something like this, he goes over, he steps once. The only guy one step back and goes all the way around the quarterback or the running back. Sometimes they give it to the running back, the running back gives it to him.

Going the other side goes to the other side.

It goes the other side. Exactly. You are correct, yes. So that, okay, so that, that's an unorthodox play overall. That's not a typical play. But it's not like when you see it you know, okay, they ran the reverse.

It's a. It's a play.

Yes. But it's unorthodox. But you get. There are teams that run a lot of those types of plays, but once the defense knows, oh, they run these kinds of plays, it's like it doesn't work as good as all.

It's like. It's like when leg locks.

Yes.

People started getting. I remember we trained with people that thought that leg locks, which is totally the.

The.

They were the solution to Jiu Jitsu.

Right.

But we did. We did. We did leg locks.

Yeah.

We did even more leg locks than some guys that thought that leg locks were the solution to Jiu Jitsu. So all of a sudden, they try the leg locks. The leg locks weren't working.

Yes.

We were doing leg locks more than the leg lock people.

Yeah. So. Yeah.

So then they had to try and do regular Jiu jitsu, and then they didn't.

Then you. Yeah, then you get it. Well, okay, so good example. So the leg locks. Right. So remember and let's go old school. Right. Ufc, I think one or maybe two, I forget. But it was Ken Shalom, Ken Shamrock voice. Gracie Ken Shamrock knew some leg locks or whatever. Right.

He sat back for one.

Right. So this is. That's an example of what happens if someone knows your trick play. Unorthodox play, but it's unorthodox for a reason. Just like how you said. If it's, like, so effective, why don't you just do it all the time? Well, because it probably has more risks if everyone's on a reverse. Right. In football, if everyone's blocking to the right and we send one guy back to the left, you rely on them getting tricked, that everything's going to the right. If they see the reverse all the time, they say, oh, yeah, I see.

Right.

But get ready for the reverse. That lone guy running around is going to get creamed.

You know that. That situation with Ken Shamrock and Hoist, that shows you how really, a little bit beyond.

The Gracies at that time were even more highly developed than you thought they were.

Yeah.

Because when you watch that sequence, Hoist immediately he had him neck and sat beside Wreck up on a perfect, like, leg lock defense.

Now he's on top.

And now he's on top. Right?

Yeah.

It was the perfect leg lock defense at a time where basically no one was doing leg locks in Jiu Jitsu. So it's pretty awesome, and it's pretty impressive that even at that time he had the defense for leg lock. Now, I don't know, maybe they. Maybe they saw enough of it or they knew that it was a possibility because Ken Shamrock was. What was he, champion pancreas and. And shooto. Yeah, shoot fighting, where they were doing leg locks. So they might have watched enough to go, oh, you know what? If he starts going for this, you got to grab his neck. You got to go on top.

Yeah, no, they. They did leg locks.

Yeah, well, that's.

Okay. So there's. There's a video. This is an old school video where it was Hoyler and Hickson doing it. Essentially, a demonstration might have been Pride or something like that. Looked like maybe in the middle of Pride, maybe a halftime situation. Okay, so it looked like it's old.

School, but that's not more old school than UFC 2. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah, it might have been.

So by the time they're teaching at Pride. Yeah, everyone's kind of doing leg locks.

By then, but you know how, like, they do such hardcore fundamental, like, stuff.

Yes.

This is. This is really the feel you got. And part of the demonstration was a leg lock submission. It was like the basic straight.

Straight ankle.

Straight ankle. Yeah, exactly Right. So you know how, like, when they do those demonstrations, you know, Horian, Hickson, the Hoyler, when they do those demonstrations, it's all just the basic. The fundamental Gracie Jiu Jitsu stuff. Yeah. And that was in there. It's not like they were like, okay, let's dazzle them with some new age stuff. It was. There's none of that.

Here's a. Here's a straight ankle.

This is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Yeah, exactly right. And it was part of it.

Yeah.

So you figure. Yeah, of course they did that stuff.

Yeah.

With the Gitube, by the way.

And that's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

What I'm saying is it's impressive because if you're thinking like, well, you know, back then they even do foot locks at all, it's like, no. And actually, you know who did a lot. You know who did a number of foot locks to finish people? Heiler.

Really?

Yeah. There'd be snagging off of people.

Exactly right. I mean, now the whole footlock game is a game is the whole, you know, it's advanced now, but. But again, go. Going back to hoist Gracie Ken Shamrock. It's. It's. That's the example where it's like, oh, if lyric foot locks back then were such a cheap move, like, such an easy, like, shortcut kind of move that you surprise People like, why don't you just do them all the time? And then Ken Shamrock sort of camp was kind of like, well, yeah, we do. That's part of how we win. You just get one guy to figure out the little trick and you're exposed a lot of the time. That's why it's a trick move. Otherwise it'd just be fundamental moves. See, I'm saying.

So a trick move that you use all the time is not a trick at all. It's just another move.

It's just another move. And here's the thing. It'll occur and it will not be another move if it has a high end, high part or a high risk involved in it.

Yes.

That's usually what trick moves, which is.

What Ken Shamrock got caught with. A high risk move that actually hoist was able to capitalize.

He's on top and Ken Shamrock's on the bottom. Same thing with the reverse. Same thing as a hail mare. Not actually that's not a trick move, but same thing like a. What do you call it? The one where you sweep it to the running back and then he throws the ball back to the quarterback.

Yeah, yeah.

You ever seen those moves? Yeah. It's like that's a trick move. You see, guys kill with that. But brow running backs can't throw the ball. That's such a high risk move. Oh, and don't let the quarterback get. And make a catch and get creamed by one of the DBs. Now your quarterback's out because, you know, he doesn't take as much punishment as the rest of the guys on the team. So there's all this risk, I'm saying.

Yeah. When Dean got Kakareko in the absolute finals with the. What we called the Kakareko heel hook, which is now called 50 50. But you could see that Kakariko, there was confusion.

Yeah.

And I mean, obviously he's an incredible world champion himself. But there was not a. There was. You could see, like he was not aware of what was happening.

Yeah.

And Dean was obviously fully aware.

He was always. Yeah.

But now we've seen plenty of people. Oh, you want to go to 5050 with me? Okay, cool. And they're gonna. There's defenses and have a whole nine yards. So it's now. It's now not a hugely advantageous trick move because it's just a normal move now.

Right. And then that's a good example of one of these things that, you know, when you create a whole system around, like footlocks, for example, that you start to eliminate all the risk factors that come with it. That's what a system does, you know, eliminates lingering problems, whatever becomes like an actual effective system. If you, if you can't eliminate the risk, it's. Bro, that's not a system. You're still over here throwing risks out, really. Hopefully you won't, you know, and that's what I think. Some of the old footlock guys or people, they'll be like, oh, I'll just jump for foot locks. Oh, yeah, jump for them, you know, and it's not based around like a system systematic footlock game like how it is, like Dean had so early on, you know. That's why I think he was, he.

Was as effective, you know, definitely very effective. We'll say, yes, sir.

All right, let's go back to where we were at. So we were talking about not delaying when you get in certain situations. And it was talking about, you know, hey, once you, once you do an attack, you get in a position, then you need to immediately set yourself up and, and get your defense ready immediately. Don't wait. And then there's jumping forward to a section here where they talk about, how do you do that? Like, what's the methodology for making that happen? Well, here you go. Reorganization aided by prior planning. Lt. Col. Ahern in Italy. From the battalion commander's point of view, the most vital feature of reorganization is prior planning. By that I mean deciding well in advance whether all machine guns are going to displace force immediately or only half of them. Deciding what areas the 81 millimeter mortars are going to cover, what areas the 60 millimeter mortars are going to cover, the various companies cover. All this planning is vital so that the prompt issuing of orders for reorganization can be affected immediately following the capture of the objective. Think about where you can use that in your. In your entire world, business, life, everything that's going on. Hey, when this happens, we're going to do this immediately afterwards. That is the deal.

There's a comment here. This is from the editor. All comment on attack tactics against the Germans emphasize the importance of prompt and thorough reorganization of the attack unit when it reaches its objective. It is necessary that this be accomplished in order to oppose effectively the habitual German counter attack. And it goes on. Reorganization of an attack unit must begin at the elementary squad level and work to the top. Have squad leaders organize their squads, section leaders supervising the work of all squad leaders. The platoon commander, assisted by the platoon sergeant, supervises the work of the section leaders and so on. Chain of Command, the company commander must be planning the defense of the position, checking the dispositions of his weapons and coordinating the fires of his mortars with his artillery support. So what does that say? It's decentralized command. So pre planning what you're going to do when you win is a really important thing. And then once you win, immediately execute the plan.

Yeah.

This happens with companies that they close a deal, right? They close a deal. Hey, I closed a deal with, you know, whatever with Bill.

If they're smart, they have a follow up plan. Emails coming two days later. Hey Bill, just following up, want to make sure you got the support that you needed. And by the way, I also want to let you know we've got some other features that we are adding to our product in two weeks. When it comes out, I want to let you know that's happening. And also I know that you've got some affiliate businesses that you also work with. I would like to reach out to them and see if we can help. You know what I'm saying? Like you have a plan.

Yeah.

A winning plan.

Yeah, that's. There's a. And there's a slight difference between. Because as long as that plan isn't contingent on like the fact that you. And because just, just a little while ago we're talking about, you know, the idea that, okay, my whole comprehensive plan, every move like one, the next move is dependent on you executing the first move.

Right.

Meanwhile, there's a lot of wiggle room in that first move. There's levels of success, you know, so you literally can't go to the second move plan if you don't achieve this certain thing, which is, that's a variable over there.

However, just to shut you down. No, no, I'm saying shut down.

No, I'm saying there's a difference there. I'm saying don't get confused in that.

Let me tell you what the difference is. This is important because you brought up a totally valid point. Tactical Echo gets that, gets all day, gets a W. But it's about to get a little bit revoked. Here's the deal. Yes sir. So you're right. We don't know exactly how it's going to turn out. Right. We don't know what that win actually looks like. But here's, here's the deal. The section that I just read, what did it say? It said let your section leaders lead. Let your squad leaders lead. So what you say is, listen folks, once we secure this objective, we are going to immediately develop a defensive posture. That means this, you Spell out what your intention is. Then your subordinate leaders, through decentralized command, step up and fulfill your intent immediately based on the particulars and the variables of the outcome of the victory. Yeah, one mission per patrol. A patrol should have a single and sole mission. There appears to be a general tendency upon the part of staff officers and immediate commanders to add a second mission just because the patrol is going to be in the vicinity of some point in which they are interested. I believe this is, that this point of a single mission is highly important. So you're telling your people, hey, this is what I want you to go do. And these hey, by the way, do this. And by the way, do this doesn't help.

What do you got, Dave?

Leg locks.

No.

Quarterback sneak.

Whatever, bro. These lessons are everywhere.

You're just, you were, you were making that point about, hey, we just closed the deal with Bill, we're not done. And that was kind of a, kind of a micro example of like jocko closes deal with Bill. But I'm going to re, reach out to Bill on Monday and we're going to keep looking. And I was thinking in the context of this idea of hey, when we accomplish the mission or we have a win or whatever, that success ends. That's true at that very small tactical level. That email to Bill. It's also true at the strategic level. At the highest level of we work with companies and one of the things we do at the senior executive level is we help them build these big strategic plans, the five year plan. But the five year plan doesn't just map out five years. And then at the end of those five years, we are done. That five year plan. The five year cycle never ends. And so when we achieve these big victories in business, nothing really ends. It just leads us to the next thing so we can get bigger and bring more people in. That's true in sports. It's this idea that the win that we're looking for isn't the end of any of this. The win that we're looking for is what allows us to start to do more and bigger and other things of what that long range strategy is, which actually in the businesses we're working with, there's no end for them. They're going to get bigger, they're going to get more dominant, they're going to be more successful, they're going to branch out in other areas. And I, I'm a big fan of echoes sports analogies. But the win, even if you think like the team that wins the super bowl, you know what they want to do. As soon as they win the super bowl, they want to celebrate that another school, you know, they want to win the next Super Bowl. Because if not, they become the story of, oh yeah, you guys won the super bowl and you didn't even make the playoffs next year. This, this idea of when you win, you have to plan to have something to do right after that, which is you're gonna want to rest, you're gonna want to take a knee, and that's the worst thing when we can do because that win is fleeting. And you don't email Bill, you're going to lose Bill because somebody's going to get in there and you don't get Bill's contact, you're going to lose those contacts too. And that win is going to be meaningless in the long run unless you recognize the win is just another step as you're moving forward.

Yeah, actually that's, that's, that makes sense too, right? Where it's like. And you mentioned you super quick barely mentioned this. Sure. You want to party right after, right after you win the Super Bowl. So you know the classic story, right? Like you have certain champions, right? Whatever, they win the super bowl, they win the heavyweight title, whatever. Next day they're training already. Seems that's like the real champion. Meanwhile. Yeah, meanwhile you get like the one time champion, right, who may be like, I don't know, whatever, he's the one time champion. He goes, he wins. And what's he doing? Partying, cruising. Oh, I need to take a couple weeks off vacation. I'm gonna go spend my bonus money, whatever, you know, on Kauai, whatever for a little bit. Meanwhile, like, you see what I'm saying? It's like, it makes sense. So the guy who can strategize like, yeah, I won, but you know, like the real champion's gonna get back to work immediately. It's kind of that, you know, it's 100% that.

That's why these, these principles from combat apply to everything in life.

Yep.

We're not just out spending our bonus money in Kauai.

Not necessarily. No.

Poor map reading. Patrolling to provide security was generally good. But patrolling to maintain contact and determine enemy positions and movement was often slighted. Many patrol leaders lacked the ability to read a map and locate themselves.

This resulted in incorrect information being brought back, failure to reach the objective, and an inability to call for fire support. Some patrols didn't know the situation and what to expect and what specific information was desired. They were not properly, properly briefed prior to starting. So once Again, if we have a team who doesn't know where they are, they're useless. What does that mean? If you have a team that doesn't understand what they're making, how much they're making, how much they're producing, what their raw materials, where, what the level of the raw materials are, what, what level of. Say all those things. If people don't know where they are, they're worthless.

Infantry notes. I get to read books that have sections that are called infantry notes. I'm a happy human. Inter unit Liaison Major General Lucas Italy Experience has shown that enemy offensive action is usually along the boundaries between units. Boom. Ramadi.

This fact emphasizes the need for close liaison and constant contact between adjacent units from squads on up. Maximum benefit from coordinated action will be realized if commanders will ensure that the following conditions are met. Exchange of active liaison personnel between adjacent units. Close contact between frontline organizations and a mutual agreement to ensure maximum combined protection along the boundary. Prompt report to adjacent units of any unusual enemy activity. Early advice of plans for attack, counter attack or withdraw together with a request for assistance desired from adjacent units. Commander should know at all times what units will be directly affected by their action and realize that it is their responsibility to keep those concerned informed. So look, we work, we interact with all kinds of different groups, all kinds of different departments, all kinds of different divisions, all kinds of different. Different companies. We work with companies all the time that all rely on other companies to get their job as B2B. Right. It's business to business. How do we. Where does the weakness usually fall? Where does. Where does failure? I shouldn't say usually. Where does failure often fall? It's in those seams between those two businesses. So what do you do? Here's some suggestions. Exchange active liaison personnel. Right. Actually trade some people. Hey, take this person, I'll take that person. Let them run that project. Let them work through this project. Close contact between organizations. Mutual agreement to. To. To work through those problems that you're going to have prompt reporting. Hey. Hey, Echo. If your T shirt business can't supply my silkscreen business, can you please tell me. Right. That's what we want.

I think you had that backwards, but yeah, I understand.

What did I say? If your silk screen business.

If your T shirt business can't supply my silk screen business, why do you.

Think I had that backwards?

Because usually silkscreen provides service for the T shirt business.

I guess so it could go.

It's a two way street. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So either way, perspective, my part.

Either way, what we need to make sure is that we're talking to each other. Maybe I'm running out of ink. Yeah, and now I'm not going to be able to print your shirts.

Maybe my sales are going down. I can't supply you with that business. I don't depend on that anymore. You see, I'm saying.

There we go. Early advice of plans for attack, counterattack or withdrawal. Right. So if I'm going to be printing a ton of shirts, I tell Echo, hey, man, I got a big order from another company. I'm letting you know if you're going to need something. Here's the wait time. Oh, okay. Let's plan through that.

Okay?

Great.

Commander should know at all times what units will be directly affected by their actions. And realize that's my response is what I just said. It's my responsibility for telling you, hey, I'm gonna go. I've got a bunch of other stuff we've got to print. If you need something, you better tell me asap. Asaptually. Use your rifle. It's another good heading.

Colonel Harry B. Sherman Commanding Officer, Infantry, Italy. We have a hard time getting riflemen to use their rifles. They depend too much on artillery and support hoarding weapons. In most cases, it would be better if they fired. Even if there is no visible target. A group of entry infantry, a group of riflemen may be stopped by a German machine gun, which they can't locate. But if they open fire in the general direction of the machine gun, the Germans will usually pull out. I believe that we have placed too much emphasis on fire orders and fire control by unit leaders. Men must be taught to open fire at once in the general direction of any target that is holding them up without waiting for any squad leader or any other individual to tell them to open fire. What is that is decentralized command.

And it's also going on the offense. And it's also cover and move.

That kind of like in the ufc, when a guy gets like, hit real hard and he just starts swinging kind.

Of like that when he gets hit. So if you punched me really hard and my reaction is just to start swinging a little bit, kind of, right? Yeah, kind of. I. Yeah, a little bit. Yep. Yeah, actually, I would say accurate. It's like I. I'm in jiu jitsu, when sometimes Dean gets a good position on me and I use the spaz defense. Yeah, it's kind of like that. Like, he starts. I'm just gonna spaz out, start moving like crazy.

Yeah, just.

It just to like, mess him up.

Yeah, Throwing bullets down there. Yeah. It's like, oh, yeah, you're not picking your shots. I'll tell you that.

Definitely not picking my shots.

Yeah, makes sense.

Yeah, There's a connection there, too, to what you were just talking about a little while ago, too, which was, hey, doing something is usually better than doing nothing. And if your plan is, hey, let's, you know, we're in a difficult situation, let's assess a little bit, let's reach out to, you know, our supporting organizations while we're just sitting here doing nothing as opposed to, hey, we've got resources right here that we can expand right now. Now, I can't win the war with these resources, but I need to use these resources right now. Hey, this team get online, start employing.

Moving forward.

Jocko, radio back, see what kind of fire support we have. Coordinate with other agencies inside your organization. But this tendency of I'm going to sit back and see what's happening or doing nothing. What they're saying is, hey, you are given those resources, those tools that you have so you can use them. And, yeah, that artillery always looks better. The airplanes look like a really cool. You imagine when we were in Radi if every time we went on to assault, the criteria is we wanted to wait for aircraft first. Yeah, you're going to sit there all day long. And I knew that firsthand as a amazingly, a liaison. My job as an Anglico Marine Air Naval gunfire liaison company was to try to bring that air support. But actually the best thing I did was support them. Say, hey, listen, we can't get air for all these times, then I'm not going to provide you what you need. Let's come up with another way to do this. And when they show up, that'll be a great force multiplier. It'll be awesome. We're not going to sit around waiting for that thing. We've got all these other assets that we can use and we need to use them.

Yeah. Because it's. It's a real low risk. Right. Yeah. If I start pushing forward right now, which seems like it'll be a lot easier for just me. Call some artillery over there. But guess what? You don't have it right now. Now. So what seems like less risk is actually more risk because action beats in action. So when I'm sitting here waiting for artillery or waiting for aircraft to come overhead, guess what? The enemy who. I just knew that they were somewhere over there. They're moving, they're maneuvering, and now I'm getting beat. So what Seemed like less risk is actually more risk.

Notes on training How I would train a company now Captain Robert C. Gates Infantry Italy if I had to train a rifle company again, I would stress the following Basic discipline, which means smart, saluting, alertness of bearing, cleanliness and neatness of person, clothing and equipment. Shoes shined, haircut, etc.

Get perfection in this early as is the basics of much later training.

Combat firing on a course which included a lot of surprise targets, proper distribution of small arms fire over a suspected target area, use of the rifle sling, sniper training, BAR training. So the BAR is borderline heavy machine gun. For them to be given to every man in the squad until he has a thorough knowledge of the weapon is one of our more effective weapons. But must be in the hands of a trained man to really be valuable. A bar man in one of our companies got 20 Germans for sure in an hour during one of the their counterattacks. This was 1/2 the casualties his platoon inflicted. Credit.

Scouting and patrolling need plenty of emphasis. So terrain appreciation to teach the men advantages and disadvantages of terrain features. Teach them to visualize how the ground on which you are located looks from the enemy's viewpoint. What he can see and what he can't see where you can take positions unobserved. So I was saying the other day that I think terrain in combat is the difference, and I'm not 100% sure on this is the difference between a white belt and a purple belt. When you know terrain, when you understand how you can use that berm or how you can use that ravine or how you can use that high ground, when you start to understand that, that's when you can just start to tap people out by maneuvering. And I'm not 100% sure that we're the. The reason I'm not 100 sure about it is.

Is because it's this massive thing. It's like a. It's like understanding the theory of grappling itself.

So if you, if you took fighting like, okay, what's a fight? It's two people swinging punches at each other and trying to kick each other. If that's what we think fighting is once you know terrain, now it's like we understand that there's a whole nother dimension. It's called grappling. So maybe the purple pelt thing doesn't really work. But as far as just comprehensive understanding of how to fight.

When you understand terrain, all of a sudden you understand there is a third dimension in the game.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, I think I just Talked myself through it. I think I figured it out.

That's the big thing to try and teach the young SEAL leaders is like, okay, the minute you move over here, the enemy can't shoot at you anymore.

Yeah.

You moved. For me, if you can get your platoon to move 4 meters as a whole to the east, you are free and clear from those guys.

Yeah.

And that means you can now run or you can move quickly.

Yeah, yeah. Even, like. Even like the high ground. Right. We always hear that. And I probably don't understand the amount that there is to understand about it, but it's like in. In fighting, there are positions you can be in where you can hit them and they literally can't hit you. Like, there's positions like that. But then if you don't know about them, you could ask somebody, okay, what's that position? And they don't know that, like grappling or nothing. It's really hard to figure it out. It's almost impossible, really.

Basically, the high ground is being on top.

Yeah. Let's say you're mounted, though. Like, Brendan's punching you. Really? If you're mounted. Yeah. And you know how to fight. Of course. Like. Yeah. If you're just a kid mounted, you're.

In the high ground.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's a dominant high ground.

Yeah.

If you're in their guard, you're still in the high ground, but you're not like in maybe the best, most dominant high ground.

Yeah.

The thing that's interesting that you got to remember about high ground is the way your angle. If you're hiding in a foxhole. If I'm in a foxhole and you're in an elevated position above me, what good is my foxhole?

Yeah.

If I'm in. If that's. Even if I'm on a pretty deep foxhole, if I'm above you, I can be in a shallow foxhole and I'm totally protected.

Yeah.

Kind of, in a way. I mean, depends on where you are, I guess. But, like, you don't even have to be in a foxhole, really. You just got to back up a little bit.

That's how good high ground is.

Yeah.

Whereas if you're on the low ground, a foxhole doesn't even really do you any good.

No foxhole.

Not to mention you got gravity on your side.

Yes.

You know, which is a powerful thing. So terrain appreciation. So if you're a. If you're happen to be a military individual and you're new to the game, start thinking about terrain. Next, camouflage and Camouflage discipline, particularly the discipline.

Pound into the men the necessity of not making trails, not moving around when the enemy can observe your position, and similar matters until each man always thinks about it.

I mean, it's, I told you, man, the best thing about being here is I just get to listen to this stuff. You know, we were just talking about terrain and I was thinking if you're, you're in a competition, whatever it is, I don't care if it's jiu jitsu, the military private sector, if you understand terrain and your opponent doesn't, you have this massive, massive disparity. It's, it, it makes things so much easier. If you understand how to use the terrain and you're fighting against someone who doesn't it, it. You can be undermanned, you can be under resourced, under equipped, and it's the same thing in the private sector. You don't have to be the biggest company. If you understand how the environment around you is working and your product or your interaction with the market does works and your opponents don't, you could be the smallest company out there and you're going to end up dominating because you understand the terrain. And then you were just talking about the connection to camouflage. And as you're saying that we were just talking, don't give away your position. And I just love how listening to these things that we talk about, the connections between all the other lessons that you keep talking about over and over again. And I'm just sitting here like Jocko just said that when the last time we were here and don't give away your position. And camouflage allows you to not do that. And he's made the covers like this, especially the camouflage. That point he was making.

The, the other thing. Well, when I talk to people about the importance of terrain and then you translate that into leadership, what you realize is that human beings are the terrain, the people that you're dealing with. They are at various elevations, they have various micro terrain.

Their personality is terrain that can be high and low. And that's why we literally say take the high ground morally. Right? So if Echo does something, if he's working for me or we're working together.

And he does something, he does something that he shouldn't have done.

I need to maintain the moral high ground. The minute that I say, hey, I know you took some money from that client, give me 10% of it or else I'm going to report you, what does that do? I can never, I just gave up the high ground and I can never get it back. I can never get it back. Everything is going to be a struggle from here on out. So the way that you view things and if you start to view the elevations that you're seeing, the way people behave, the way people interact, where the ravines are, where the, the COVID is, who is cover and who is concealment. Meaning, like if I know that Dave will back me up.

In the D in like the deepest sense of the word, but echo, he'll, he'll like stick up for me a little bit, but then he's gonna, he's gonna bow down to whatever temptations are there. That means Dave's gonna give me cover, Ekko's gonna give me a little concealment, but then he's gone. Like those interactions. When you're dealing with people, you're dealing with terrain, you're dealing with variations in the surfaces of where you're working.

Organization of squad leaders, squad chain of leadership to the point where if there's only two men left in the squad, they will know automatically who, which one is the leader. Keep the squad organized this way, regardless of casualties and consequent replacements.

Some other information, very, very tactical. In selecting non commissioned officers, I am convinced.

In selecting non commissioned officers, I am convinced that steadiness is the first asset.

How do we talk about steadiness? We talk about the ability to detach, not get emotional. That's the first asset.

Resourcefulness is the second. So how am I going to get these problems solved? What can I use with what I have to get these freaking problems solved? That's number two. Intellect. Third.

I've known some really smart people that were really ineffective.

Flanking out machine guns.

The battle indoctrination courses have given some troops the idea that if they attack machine guns by crawling toward the machine guns on their bellies without a chance of hitting back. This is not so they must go around and flank them out in this connection. In training and in maneuvers. We should teach this flanking out by having our men go over the toughest and hardest hills available as we had to do in Sicily and Italy. It's just over and over again. Physical conditioning too is all important.

Here in the so called rest period, all infantry men take a four mile march in 40 minutes each day. Precision and snap in all. Basic drill including calisthenics should be stressed. Precision and snap.

That's something that I'm not good at.

What?

Snapping Precision and snap in my movements. I see, so I see some guys like doing exercises. Whatever a name an exercise, I don't. And I see they have a lot of snap. I need to focus on that more, more precision and snap. Oh, here's a little headline for you.

The hard way is safer.

Colonel Harry B. Sherman Commanding Officer, 7th Infantry, Italy Stress, stress. Night cross country movements and night attacks don't allow the units or individuals to use any road, path, trail or any other easy route of advance in every case. They in every case have them move by only the most difficult and inaccessible terrain in the vicinity. Roads, pass trails and even just open ground that offers easy going are almost invariably mined or booby trapped. Make the men regard the most difficult ground as the natural route of advance and it will save many casualties.

The easy path leads downhill, my friends.

This is kind of epic motors, by the way. I'm skipping through a bunch of this stuff because they go through each individual like Department of combat, right? But I read them all because there's always things that you can learn. So this one is, this is like the motor pool. Motors need maintenance. Brigadier General Vincent Meyer Commanding 18th Field Artillery Brigade Italy it was my experience that as soon as we moved out of the staging area and got within range of the enemy's guns, motor maintenance, for some strange reason, came to a summary end. It was partly due to the vile weather and to the slimy mud. First echelon maintenance was so utterly wanting that drivers were not even checking the water level in the radiators. The motor mechanics were honestly trying to do proper second echelon maintenance, but they were exposed to the weather, with no overhead cover from the rain, and were slipping and sliding around in the mud that was inches deep. It finally got them down. They just couldn't cope with it. So I read you all that. And I read you all that for a very specific reason. So you got this. People aren't doing maintenance. The drivers that are supposed to probably do some kind of a cursory check of a vehicle, they're not even checking if the freaking radiators are filled. Now we got vehicles overheating. And then the secondary maintenance, these guys are, they're out there in the weather. So what is this guy's solution to the problem?

Corrective measures. When I realized the gravity of the situation.

I placed an energetic leader in charge.

That's what he did. That's what he did. Placed an energetic leader in charge. He, meaning this energetic leader, immediately scouted around and got a place with overhead cover and hard standing using available buildings and got a couple of caves. We required that the drivers clean off mud and drain old oil across the street from the shop. This helped to keep the Shop in clean order. As to the first echelon maintenance of my motor, my. As the first line maintenance, my motor officer had to bear down in no uncertain terms. But in two or three days, the drivers were back to doing the things they had been trained to do for so many months prior to entry into combat. In addition, I required every officer. So already we got multiple good things, right? You got a problem? Look, I don't even. I'm not going to solve the problem. To put a good leader in there. The good leader starts to figure things out. Oh, we're freaking walking around the. Gonna get overhead cover, gonna get some caves, and then this guy starts holding the line. Hey, you need to freaking do your maintenance checks. Took them two or three days to tighten them back up. Why is that?

You hold the line. What are you holding the line on? If you allow slack, they're gonna take it, bro. You think I want to do vehicle maintenance? Echo? Charles?

I don't think so.

No, I don't want to do vehicle maintenance. You know what I want to do is give my vehicle to you and let you worry about all that crap. That's what I want to do. I'm lazy, so I just give it to you. And if you accept it, guess what? I'm never doing maintenance again. If you say, hey, bro, sorry, jocko, you got to do your share.

What if I don't? I'm not taking your vehicle two or three days later. I'm not even asking. I'm just doing my job. Okay, so those. That's awesome. And then it gets this. In addition, I required every officer prior to starting on a trip with a motor vehicle to check at least one item on the car in which he was traveling. For example, tires, battery, water. So then he put another little level of checks in there.

Freaking legit. By the way. All the problems that you have are leadership problems.

Kind of goes for your kids too, right? That thing that were that. That concept right there. Like your kids, right? If they're like, hey, get, I don't know, know, throw away my rubbish.

Oh, like your kids aren't doing their vehicle maintenance.

Yeah, when they can. But if you do them for.

Vehicle maintenance, obviously. But they're metaphoric vehicle maintenance.

So they're not cleaning their room, they're not making their bed.

Here's my. My son just turned four, by the way. So that's about the time, you know, give or take, where they brush their own teeth. But like, you expect a three and a half, four year old kid to brush their teeth. Good. Maybe Maybe not in the beginning when it's like two, when they start getting teeth, you brush the teeth for them. Right. But if you're like, hey, you're trying to save time on bedtime scenarios and all this stuff, you'd be like, just come here, I'll brush your teeth, and you brush them good or whatever. Because you're an adult, you know how to brush teeth. Right. But as a kid, they're gonna be like turning three, turning four. And if you keep brushing their teeth for them, they're just gonna keep doing it. Just like if you keep giving me your truck to change the oil or whatever you're trying to do to me or whatever. Same kind of thing. But if you're like, hey. And actually, you kind of taught me this about the tying the shoes thing.

Yeah.

You know, I don't care if you're trying to save time. Learn how to tie your shoes. So if you're like, hey, I'm not brushing your teeth. You're brushing your own teeth. You do it once, do it twice. After a while, they'll be like, I'm brushing my own teeth. I don't want to. I would way rather just sit there as a kid and then quite frankly as an adult and just show my teeth, have someone else brush them way more. Right. But, man, it's just not like that.

Here's what you do. Age 3, you show your child the faces of meth transitions where people are on methamphetamines. They get arrested over several years and their teeth ended up all yellow and falling out.

Yeah.

And you say, hey, do you want to see faces of people that don't brush their teeth?

Yeah. Yes. And of course that. That's true. I don't know if I'd ever do that. You know, two, three, four, maybe I would. I don't know. But I feel like that comes before.

That's the why, by the way. Yeah. Why you brush your teeth.

Yes.

Or that's why you get your. Your teeth have to be brushed. So now we're in phase two already, where it's like just like how you. You're going to give me your truck to change the oil. You know, the oil has to be changed. We already know that part. Seems saying it's just a matter whether I'm going to do it or someone can do that thing for me. I'm saying, what if it's like, no, no slack. You do your own thing.

Since you didn't want to brush your teeth, I highly doubt that you change it.

I'm saying, look, I don't want. I want my teeth brushed. How about that? I don't want to. I don't want them not to be brushed. But if someone else could. Okay, maybe not brush your teeth. Let's not say that. How about whatever. Do you clean your house? Yeah. Do the dishes. That's a big one. What if someone's like, oh, someone always does your dishes. You know, you just sort of like when my wife.

When my wife is mad that my kids didn't do the dishes, and she'll tell me like, oh, the kids didn't do the dishes, as she's cleaning the dishes.

Yeah.

You know how many times I've cleaned the dishes because my children didn't clean them?

Zero.

Zero times.

Yeah.

Zero times.

Yeah.

That's not a good way to train your kids if they didn't do the dishes. Well, that's not actually a thing. Shouldn't be a thing. They do the dishes.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's the worst way to train stuff.

My daughter on the family group text.

Sure.

The other day, my oldest daughter posted something that. Or sent to the group text, which was a screenshot of a post that someone had made, and it said, like, my dad talk. No, like, dad talks about hard value of hard work. Hasn't done dishes in seven years. You know, and that was the big hit on Jocko or they do shot.

Wait, so look, if you're not doing your own dishes, they're doing your dishes. You're on the other side of that scenario. They're not holding the line on your discipline.

They have their jobs.

Okay. Okay. We're talking about a bigger system now.

Yeah. This is the system. I have. I have responsibilities in the house.

You do?

Yes. They're called. It's called paying mortgages. Right. It's called providing the roof. Yeah, that's. That's what I do. Just, they have their responsibilities, things like doing the dishes.

So it was a pretty good shot. I got a kick out of it. My daughter giving me a hassle.

Or you could get super technical and be like, hey, I don't regard doing dishes as the benchmark for hard work.

No, I mean, they. Fortunately, they weren't trying to have a legitimate argument with me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because they were not. They know. Not that that's not a.

They know.

You're down for that solution. All right, Essentials of jungle warfare. Jungle SOPs.

SOP attack procedures. Combat patrol. Once again, if I've gotten to a point in my life where I'm reading a document that says SOP attack procedures, combat patrol. I'm pretty happy about the world. One, have a covered route of withdrawal picked out in advance in case enemy pressure becomes too great.

This.

This is another little hint towards the value of pre planning. If you're going to have to leave, tell everyone where you're going to leave by.

To keep one squad back as a reserve and to provide a force to cover the forward elements of the patrol if they're forced to withdraw. Why am I talking about this? What in God's name does this have to do with anything that we're doing here in a leadership situation? Well, let me tell you.

When you're in a business and I'm in businesses, you have a certain amount of capital.

Those are your resources. Every military.

Modern. Every modern military book. Actually, no, it's not even just modern. If you go back and you listen to this podcast, everything that we've ever talked about says you need to have a reserve. Why is that? Because you're gonna come up against variables that you didn't expect. So these people, when we. When we sit here and talk about variables, and I'm acting as if, hey, here's a real cool concept about the variables and the things that could go wrong, okay? It's been talked about for thousands of years. In order to cover down on those variables that you cannot anticipate, you need to have some level of reserve. So when you are running a business and you have to place resources in different things, you can buy this much produce, you can buy this much, you know, gear, you can buy this much, you spend money. Let's just. Let's just say money. That's a simple one. We have this much money. Is it smart to use all of. To employ all of our money at the same time? No, it is not. You must keep a reserve back because when Echo's project goes sideways. So if I say, oh, I'm going to give half my money to Echo and half my money to Dave, half of our. Half of the money that we have. Half to Echo and half the Dave. Oh. Because we want to get the project done quickly. And then all of a sudden, Echo hits a. Hits a hiccup. What can I do now? Nothing. I have nothing else to give. So what I should do is give a third of my resources to Echo, a third. Third to Dave. We start to move forward. You hit a hiccup, Echo, no problem. We got your back. Little reserve capital ready to employ.

Men should be designated to watch for snipers. Now, why is that important? How does that relate to Anything. What company are we talking to right now that needs to have a person designated to watch for snipers? Let me explain.

When you are doing anything and you give people important jobs as collateral duties, you can anticipate that those collateral duties will not be done with maximum effectiveness.

What's collateral duties meaning?

Hey, Echo, I want you to navigate. I want you to cut the brush that's out in front of us. I want you to look for booby traps, and I want you to look for snipers.

Here's the third thing. Just look. Sorry. Your fourth job is to look for snipers. How much time are you spending looking for snipers? The answer is very little, if any. So what I need to do is say, hey, Echo, you got these three jobs, cool. But one thing I really don't want to have happen is get hit by a sniper. So Dave, he's going to be in the middle of the patrol. He's not cutting brush. He's not looking for booby traps. What he's going to do is he's going to move forward a little bit. He's going to stop. And while the patrol moves, he's going to be looking for snipers. That's his job.

And what's the philosophy there? Is it because, of course, watching for sniper is important, but you don't want to compromise any of your jobs because you're spread thin, or is it because a certain job kind of. Kind of almost in a way, requires less attention from time to time?

Here's another example. We started getting EOD Explosive Ordinance Disposal individuals tasked to our platoons in the SEAL teams.

As this was happening, and we started getting these guys that. This was in the beginning of the war. The. A lot of the EOD guys that were coming on board, like, they weren't. They hadn't been through any combat skills training. They didn't really know what they were doing. And of course, I didn't really know any of these guys at the time. So I just thinking, why would we take a regular Navy EOD guy that's used to being on an aircraft carrier, in case there's an emergency with a bomb that's strapped to an F18 that needs to get disarmed? Why would we take that guy and try and make him basically into a seal when it seems like it'd be a lot easier to me to take a seal, send them to an EOD school, you learn the skills, and then if something happens, you can. You can handle it. My commanding officer at the time said, hey, Jocko, here's the deal if it's a collateral dude, he didn't use these exact words but he said the exact same thing which is hey, if the enemy is going to be using booby traps which they are and IEDs, we want to have somebody that that's the focus of their life. And I as soon as he said that I was like oh, good point. Thank you. I will gladly train an EOD individual so that they are focused on keeping us alive.

So if you have priority it's a form of prioritize and execute meaning I can't take something that's important. If I deem something as important, I need to assign it to a person as their primary responsibility. Post outpost to cover platoon as it's as it organizes the position. Place loaded automatic weapons nearby in case enemy attacks during it. So cover your flanks. Select a difficult position to attack preferably on high ground. I just have to say when it says high ground cover trails and other likely avenues of enemy approach with well dug in automatic weapons pits. Dig three man emplacements so that they are mutually supporting and cover the area completely around the platoon.

If the platoon has sufficient communication equipment this a sound powered telephone net connecting the platoon command post with each squad should be provided by be able to talk to each other. Booby trap the area complete completely around the perimeter. Clear light brush and fire lanes outside the perimeter for 20 to 40 yards. These are real tactical things. Arrange artillery and supporting fires. Place sharp pointed sticks 10 to 25ft and he goes goes through that. Use grenades freely when the enemy is seen or heard.

Hold weapons fire until a definite target is observed. Premature firing of weapons will disclose positions. Dave, you talked earlier about not wanting to disclose our positions when you start shooting at night. That's definitely going to happen.

Must of the jungle soldier first Marine Corps if he is to survive. It must be second nature for every jungle soldier to keep his mouth shut on the trail. Recognize common jungle sounds, keep his eyes off the ground when on the trail and maintain a constant watch towards the head of the column and to a selected flank. Get off the trail at Holtz, conceal himself and observe the flanks. Dig in at protracted Holts. Know the Nambu, which is the light machine gun of the Japanese by its sound because it is the framework of the Jap jungle organization and it is an guide to flanks and strong points. That's so good you got to know what the Japanese machine gun sounds like because if you know, if you see where that Japanese machine gun is, it's on their flanks or it's in their strong points.

Black his face and hands to and remove any shine from equipment. Conserve his own ammunition and pick up abandoned bandolier when he sees one. Memorize and invariably use the unit selected code words for leaders, various maneuvers, ammunition corpsman, etc be able to select a night position so that the jungle works to his advantage and to the disadvantage of the infiltration rating. Japs appreciate the fact that Japs do not have cat's eyes, that they are afraid of the dark and that at night a moving Jap is an easy victim for a silent marine who believes in his bayonet care for his equipment religiously. Weapons deteriorate with unbelievable rapidity in the jungle and must be cleaned at every opportunity.

Good.

It.

What, what's good about that is. And, and the main reason why I thought it was important to say that.

Is because if you're in charge.

That section right there shows you how important it is to convey to all the troops a baseline of, of actions that is going to help you win.

Because it's real easy to sit back and think, well, obviously you should know what this machine gun feels sounds like and obviously you should blacken your face and like all those things seem super obvious.

But why are they written here? Because people failed to do them. So as a leader, what can you look at inside your team where there might be some obvious things? Things. And by the way, you know these things. I've been talking a lot lately about.

Values and, and the fact that if you have the proper values, this is sort of the ultimate form of decentralized command because people can operate just based on the values. So these are almost, these are like these minor things that almost become values, right? To use your code words every single time to conserve your ammunition. Every single, those are, those are almost like values that you have. Dig in at Protracted Holts Think if you did, if you were a jungle fighter and you did all these things all the time, that's the way you operate. Your survivability is going to be infinitely larger than someone that doesn't do these things. So what is going on at your business inside your teams where this stuff isn't happening every single time? What do you need to tell people what needs to happen? You know, these are the things you need to think about as a leader. They're not as obvious as you think.

They're also the things that your people need to know because those are the things that they need to do so you can win your people, the ones that aren't camouflaging their faces or recognizing the sounds of those materials, machine guns. Not only do they not know what they're supposed to be doing because more than likely nobody's ever explained it or taught it to them. They also to understand why it's important, what the significance of it. And if we do this as a team, we are going to win. And if we don't, we're going to lose. There's a reason our enemies put out snipers and it's the same thing in business, is that you are, you are. If you're, if you're running a business right now, listening to this podcast and you own a company or lead a team, you're at war. The people you're competing with don't want to share space with you, have an equitable share of the market. They want to run you into the ground and they're going to harass you, they're going to probe you, they're going to watch you, they're going to try to take you out, they're going to set up snipers and machine guns and you have to know what you need to do to win. And if your people on the front lines don't know this, you're going to lose. And the reason they're not doing it isn't because there's something wrong with them or they're not. It's because you haven't shown them why they need to do that for you guys to win. And that's why this, these lessons get repeated over and over and over again. And that's why it's so fun to listen to this stuff.

Patrolling Jungle CRAFT Lieutenant B. Mayor Infantry, Bougainville I think back now on how I used to cuss when scouting and patrolling came up on the schedule.

He's talking about training. I had the idea that with all the lectures and field work we had, it would all come as second nature when we got into combat. But let me tell you something. I have many veterans of Guadalcanal in my platoon who have lots of combat experience in patrolling and they still have plenty to learn. Let me give you an example of a four day patrol we had in Jap territory. In those four days, we moved about a thousand yards a day.

Starting at 7 in the morning, an hour stop for lunch and ending at 5. Figure out for yourself how far we averaged per hour. It's pretty tough to move like a cat through the jungle hour after hour. One man causing a little too much noise can cause the annihilation of a patrol. I sincerely mean it because it has happened.

Teamwork.

Men must not try to fight the Japs individually. A soldier fighting on his own is a most uneconomical investment and unless he is lucky, he will accomplish very little. It is a rare occasion when a Japanese machine gun is not covered by other weapons, including a sniper or two. No one man can move in on such a combination. Fighting must be done by mutually supporting groups. In order to make this system effective, training must be continuous and every effort must be made to keep the composition of the groups unchanged.

Essential Standards the successful and efficient Intelligence and Reconnaissance platoon should have the following standards. Select personnel mentally and physically better than average. Each member should be the equal of the average squad leader.

Rigorous physical hardening.

Lots of hill and mountain climbing experience in the jungle during training they should stay out for eight or 10 days at a time. Use native guides and learn how to read signs from them. Have them show the men the edible fruits and vegetables. Strict water discipline both as to the amount consumed and its purification. Ability to move rapidly and silently. Use arm and hand signals to indicate the situation and the desired action. No talking or whispering.

Constant maintenance of visual contact, front and rear, left and right. Physical hardening. Here's some basic principles. Travel light. No papers. Include a high percentage of automatic weapons and concentrate a large proportion of them well forward. The point should be heavily armed. When I used to hear the Vietnam guys talking about they would move the machine gunners close to the point because you're expecting a contact front. That was the kind of became the SOP often. Well, not all the time, but it was. We use it all the time in Ramadi.

JP almost always had Mikey up there. Why JP's on point needs that cover fire.

Approach streams gingerly. The Japs like streams best for their ambushes. Make sure that the point has grenades in his hand when he starts across it. Damn, that's freaking fired up. Don't pause for any reason until both banks have been well scouted in both directions.

Select successive reorganization points as the patrol progresses down the trail to provide for swift reorganization.

Maneuver swiftly on first contact. Jap ambushes A Jap ambush weapons are not normally cited to cover wide fields of fire and usually bear mainly on the trail. Likewise, the Japs react poorly to an attacker who makes and acts on his decisions quickly.

And yes, I obviously I'm using the term Jap here. I know it's an offensive term, but this is the literature of this time period and they're not talking about the Japanese people. They're talking about the Imperial Japanese armor, army and military who they were Fighting to the death.

Infantry control is hard to maintain in squads, platoons, and companies. When operating in the woods, connecting groups are soon lost from sight. And sound is necessary that particular attention be directed by all commanders from the squad leader on up. That to maintain control of their forces and contact with adjacent units, every individual must know the location of his immediate superior and his CP at all time. And the second is the last thing from this particular volume, Fighting spirit. It was notable that until such time as the infantry got fighting mad, there was a carefree attitude among the troops in training. This mad spirit can be developed to a certain degree.

The use of COVID in advancing by creeping and crawling must be stressed. It is necessary to emphasize the importance of the live soldier as compared. As compared to the dead hero.

Emphasize the importance of the live soldier as compared to the dead hero. And that's sort of a dichotomy between that and fighting mad.

And fighting mad and staying focused. And they call that fighting spirit. So.

There you go, lessons being learned over and over again.

You would think that.

You would think that the things that we talk about, the thing that's. The things that we teach. The things that we teach to the military, the things that we teach to the business world, the things that we teach to law enforcement. Enforcement. You would think that the things that we teach, which we're literally reading from a book that's, whatever, 70 years old.

You would think that people would just be like, hey, bro, what are you trying to teach us? We are this. You're teaching the most obvious things ever. We don't need you. You'd think that we wouldn't have a business.

But we do, oddly enough.

There's something. There's a force that draws people in the wrong direction. And.

Where should I say? There's forces. There's forces that draw you in the wrong direction. Forces of ego. The forces of lack of perspective. There's another force.

In addition to those forces that I talked about earlier. What? Ego perspective. And what emotion? Ego perspective and detachment. The other one, the other fourth thing that draws people down is complacency and just weakness. Just taking the easy bath.

Those are the four. Those are the four things that mess us up. There's a fourth leg to the stool.

Complacency. Emotion. Or emotion. Slash. Detachment.

Yeah. These are the things that draw people down. Ego.

You and I have been talking about ego a bunch lately. It just so happens that that's been the topic of our most recent series of conversations. Whether it's Eve online or just you and me or ego Just happen to be on the forefront. When I was. As you're talking, the word complacency was just ringing in my head. And I was thinking, as you said, not that it's. It's a separate thing, but.

Your ego will get out of control when you're complacent.

Absolutely. And. And if your ego is out of control, you'll get complacent. Totally.

And then if you just think you're just going to detach from emotion and just. You get complacent about your ability to do that, you will get sucked in. And if you want to actually see it from other people's points of view and go, hey, how will it look if I say this? If you get complacent and understand it, it was just the way you put that word under. Under all three of those things of that triangle is. It's the complacency that is why you don't apply those three things. And we can draw however you want it. Just the way you're saying it in my mind was when. When I don't keep my ego. When my ego mechanism isn't working, it's because I'm being complacent with, oh, I'm humble. I'm a humble guy. Dave's humble. I know how to keep my ego in check. And the minute I tell myself I can do that, my ego gets out of control.

Yeah. Complacency is an underlying symptom and cause of these three things that keep us in business, bro.

They keep us in business. Right on. All right. Echo, Charles.

Yes.

We kind of closed out talking about fighting spirit.

Fighting spirit, yeah.

Any suggestions on how we can keep our fighting spirit up?

Keep the fighting spirit up. Yes.

The path. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. So in our. On our path, we all have individual paths, by the way, some overlapping elements, of course, fitness, mental and physical. If you're not at the very least maintaining. But hopefully we're working to move.

To progress mentally, physically, physically. That's a big one. Once you get married, well, you know, you got your career in order. Let's face it. That complacency on the men, on the physical home front, by the way, if.

You don't have physical health there, you're in a real bad way. In every way.

Yeah.

But mentally, spiritually, emotionally, it's all going downhill. So we want to maintain as much physical health as we can. Is that kind of where we're going?

That is true, but I think that the. The kind of. The perception is that, that hill that you're talking about go downhill. That's a big hill. It's like. It's like long. And then when you're like, younger, potentially, you're at the top of that hill, but the hill is so long that you can let these things slide for so long that on the way down you kind of know, yeah, sure, I'm letting my health kind of slide. But it's not like code right red. It doesn't feel like code red for like a long time.

Rome wasn't built in the day and it wasn't destroyed in a day either.

There you go.

And you go day by day. But then one point, you look up and the infrastructure's hurt.

Hurting, and you're.

No, the infrastructure might not be recoverable.

That's what I'm saying.

That's the problem.

And, and that is kind of one of those. One of those points that I think doesn't, for some reason, doesn't dawn upon us real obviously, you know.

No, that's because it creeps in. Creeps in a little bit at a time.

But you kind of would think, right, like on paper or whatever that, like, you could get to the point you could at least predict, okay, look, I'm going downhill. I get it. This is happening every single day, by the way. I get it. But when I get to XYZ point, I know that that's not recoverable or I'm in super hot water or whatever. So let's. When it gets to here, let's. Let's really tighten it up. Really. But we don't really do that.

Well, we hope we do.

Yeah, we hope we do.

Let's not get it. Let's not let it get to the point. And something that can do it, something that can. That. That allows us to move to let it slide more, is you got some kind. Like you're feeling a little dinged up.

Yes.

Right. Maybe those, maybe those joints are feeling a little bit dinged up.

That's one of the things. And well, and actually that. That reminds me me of what I was thinking. Like, sure, yes. We like, if you work hard, work out hard, sure, your body takes beating, joint sink of beating, right. But even like daily.

Doing like the same thing every day, sitting down every day, like all that kind of stuff, it jams up your joints as well. Did you know that if you sleep with your knees together on your side, it kind of like puts weird pressure like on your hips and your knees?

I did not know that.

Yeah, that's what I found out Anyway, all right, whatever. All right. Joints. Jocko Fuel. There you go. We need supplementation. We're in the game. We are working out. If you're not working out, it's like, man, Brad, you got to start working out. You have to.

Definitely.

Unless your job is.

Even then. Even if you have the most physical job you can think of, we know what you have to do proactively do mobility, stretch. You know what I'm saying?

Pro soccer player. Well, then again, no. If you're pro athlete, you are working out. That's your whole jam. So yeah, okay, you're correct. I, I agree with that. 100. Okay, so work out. If you're not working out, we're working out now. And you will need varying levels of supplementation. Let's start from the bottom. The foundational supplementation joints. Keep that, keep those in the game. You're not getting younger. I know you heard it before. Seems obvious, but we don't act like it. Sometimes saying you get older.

Full conversation just with yourself.

Because I, I know the thought. That's why. You know how someone's like, hey, I'm not getting any younger. It's like, yeah, Brad, that literally applies to every single human being at any age. You could be just born. You're still not getting any younger. You know what I'm saying?

I don't know though, bro.

Oh, so you are getting. Some people are getting.

But like, don't you think, hey, I'm better in these following nine aspects right now than I was last year? I think I'm getting younger.

No, see, you lost me at the last part. You might be getting better for sure. More mobile, more physical, whatever. But nonetheless, what I'm saying is sometimes these cliches are super self explanatory, like obvious to everyone or whatever. So then I say them, then I gotta explain what I mean by em. You see what I'm saying? Because they apply. See what I'm saying? All right, anyway, take Joy Toy, F Warfare, and Super Krill Oil. Keep your joints in the game because weak joints is worse than weak strength. You understand that?

Yep.

Because you don't even have the capability.

I said I understood it. That means you didn't need to expand on anymore.

I'm looking at Dave. He didn't say anything, so I figured I was compelled to explain it a little bit more.

The tape will show that I nodded my head, which is every bit the same as saying I understand.

Just your guys words right now tells me that you don't fully understand. I'm trying to. Trying to give to you guys.

So you got joint warfare, Krill, oil. Discipline, discipline. Go. Vitamin D3. Cold War. We got the RTD you can drink. Okay. Where you at, Dave Burke?

Good deal.

What's your flavor assessment at the current time of the cans of Discipline. Go.

Sour Apple Snapper.

That's your number one? Number one. Okay.

Just came out.

Okay.

Echo. Charles, where are you at?

I. I'm gonna be honest. I like the Jocko Palmer taste the best. But you know how you, like, you go in, like, routines. I'm on the Sour App or Sour Apple Sniper. I think maybe subconsciously it's. I'm still in the novel phase, you know, like new flavor. You see what I'm saying? But I think taste wise.

Yeah.

Jocko Palmer edge, like, by a little bit.

When is your signature flavor coming out? Good deal, Dave Burke.

It's next, man. So we have slapped the table. We are official on the flavor.

Did you get the flavor that you liked? We did.

We did.

And now it's production time.

It is time. The cans are ordered.

Oh, the cans is official.

And Belittle and I had the talk last week, and I think we're next.

So I actually. No, I saw the can design. Did you post the can design?

I think I reposted it from him.

Dude, every time, like, this is like Pete's dream.

Yeah.

Every time Pete gets to design a cool can, he like, just. That's his. That's. He's so happy.

He was super fired up on this.

Exactly, dude. Yeah, he's. And probably because you were fired up. I was fired up because, you know, he sends me stuff and I'm like, looks cool, dude. I was.

I was super excited when he sent me that stuff. I was so stoked.

He knew this is so cool. And he's like, bro, yeah, totally. Why is Jocko such apple free? Getting.

I know, bro. Yeah, I'm feeling Pete totally on that one. Cuz, you know, when you're fired up, you get, you know, you artistically, you're like, oh, man, this one really came together. You know, there's layers in there. You show it to, like, your prime primary audience, and they just are like, cool, bro. Why do I even come to you sometimes?

Hey, warning order. You know what a warning order is? Means? Like, hey, we got an operation that's going to be coming up pretty soon in the Southeast.

A store called Wawa Wawa.

Yeah.

Yep.

I hear good things.

They're gonna be having discipline. Go there. Little warning order that when it comes, go get some. We're On a little mission. Mulk protein that tastes good.

Yep.

Or dessert that has protein. Yeah. I'm not sure which way you want to describe it. Either way is good with me for sure. Jaco white tea.

Yeah. Good, good, good, good product.

And this stuff is also available at the vitamin shop.

Or@Originmain.Com which. Where you can also get jiu jitsu products such as a ghee, such as a rash guard. And by the way, just don't. Not just a ghee. Kind of get the g. You can kind of get vuggy that you want the most comfortable ghee ever made. Rift.

Yeah.

Is there a more comfortable ghee than rift?

Negative.

It's not even in the same ballpark.

Yeah, it was funny because my son, he's four, like I mentioned before, so he'll like, just be ran like we're not training at any place or nothing like that, but he'll randomly be like.

Hey, it's time to train.

Yeah. Or at the very least, put on. Put on my gi. I just want to put on the gear right now. So he'll put. Yeah, he'll put. He'll put it on, and I'll be like, remember Pete, Cuz. Remember he met Pete at the vitamin shop, all that. And I was like, he's the one that made this gi. So he'll be like, cool. And he'll be running around doing his thing, whatever, and then he'll say, hey, can you tell Pete thanks for making this gi for me?

Your kid is nice.

Straight up. Oh, yeah. Very polite. Yes, sir.

All right, so we got ghee's, we got boots, American made boots. American made jeans. Blue jeans, right? Yeah, you would think. You would just think, oh, blue jeans. That's an American thing, right? Blue jeans come from America. You know what? You're right and you're wrong. Blue jeans came from America. They originated in America, but they're not made there anymore. Unless you get Origin jeans. And then they're made in America a hundred percent from the thread in the cotton.

Yeah, that's true.

And they're sewn the whole nine yards. So if you want to support America and you want to support this podcast and you want to support America, then check out originmain.com and I'll quote echo here. If you see something and you like something, get something.

Get something. It's true. Also, Jocko store is called Jocko store. So we're on the path, like I said, like we always say. So if you want to represent while on the path. We got some shirts, some hats, some Hoodies, some shorts, board shorts, some.

Other various items on there. Jockstore.com Like I said, so you know, discipline equals freedom. Good. Get out. All these things representative of this crazy hard from time to time path that we're on.

Including the shirt that I'm wearing right now. Yes.

Hardcore recondos all day.

You know, I don't introduce new shirts into my lineup very often.

Yes, it's. It's a, it's a weave move for sure.

So here I am. Hardcore recondo. Slack Warrior Kid Soap. Don't forget that. You can get that at the Jocko store as well. Some, some. Some of that soap is for children, some of it for adults. So some of it's called killer soap. Some it's called Warrior Kid soap. But regardless of what kind of soap you get, it will all allow you and your family to.

Stay clean.

Subscribe to this podcast. If you haven't yet.

Yep.

Which is just crazy. If you haven't yet.

So the value of subscribing to a podcast. What bro, Whatever. I'm just saying. Cuz it's one of those things. Things, you know, an ongoing kind of question mark. Like, oh, you're like, yeah, I don't, you know. Yeah. How valuable is saying subscribe to the podcast.

Okay.

That's who it's for.

This is new.

If you're new to the podcast also.

Well, you can subscribe to another podcast which is called the Jocko Unraveling Podcast. You can subscribe to that one. It's myself and Daryl Cooper. We originally called it the Thread.

See, that's valuable. Yeah, but that's valuable right there. To be like, okay, you're listening to Jockey Podcast. You probably, you know, unless you're like brand new, the first one you ever listen to or whatever and think, think for some reason this is like a one off an individual episode. Then you say, subscribe to this, but we're listening to Jocko Podcast. But there is in fact, like you said, unraveling Podcast. Whole different podcast. Subscribe to that one too. Available for subscribing.

Also Grounded podcast, which we are going to record another one with J.P. but we didn't. Sorry, we ran out of time. And Warrior Kid Podcast. I know I owe you those. I apologize. I need to work harder. We have a YouTube channel where Echo Charles makes videos. If they're short, really compact videos, then they'll have all kinds of excitement in them. If, if they're a long video, then there'll be no excitement in them. It'll just be people talking which, in Echo Charles's opinion, is the way to do it.

It's valuable.

Everyone else doesn't think that, but It's Echo Charles YouTube channel. That's what he. That's where he's at.

I got a text from Brandon today, and he said, hey, Pickworth. Yeah. And he. He said something along the lines of, you know, trooper, since day one, if we don't have explosions, if that's not part of the program, something's wrong.

There's another vote.

All right, good tip.

Just do it one time. See if anybody, you know, gets mad, whatever.

So. YouTube channel, subscribe to it.

Psychological Warfare, an album and a Jocko album with Jocko traps helping you through moments of weakness. Straight up, when they come about, you just. Boom. You listen to that.

Boom.

No weakness, no moment.

And also, we got psychological. We got flipside canvas. Sorry. Flipsidecanvas.com Dakota Meyer, making cool things for you to hang on your wall. Also got some books. We got a book called the Code. Dave Burke, what do you got about the code?

Still using the code every day. I am. I still get more direct messages on social media about that than anything else, because it was this idea of, like, hey, we were just having this conversation. You have to look at the. You want to not be complacent. You want to keep. You have to do it every single day. Every single day.

I thought what you're gonna say is, we also talked about, you got to know where you are. This book, the code, the evaluation, the protocols, actually allows you to assess where you are. How can you move if you don't know where you are? The answer is, you can't. The code, the evaluation, the protocols, written by Jocko Willink, Dave Burke, and Sarah Armstrong.

You know what's funny about that? The code, like, elements from this book are now in my everyday life. Like, my whole. You remember how it feels like back in the day, but let's just face it kind of the current. You know how you, like, label your experience from 1 to 10, right? Give it a score, 1 to 10. Now it's 1 to 5.

Oh, it changed your whole.

Yeah. 5 is like the unattainable perfection, you know? 4 is, like your general perfection, you know?

Yeah. You got to be careful with that one, though.

The fours.

Yeah. Because if you're. If your wife is like, hey, how do I look tonight in this dress? And you're like, oh, you're a five.

What you mean is unattainable perfection.

Yes.

What you get is slapped.

Yeah.

For that one.

Here's the thing when you get real used to this evaluation system, I'll get slapped. I got it. I got to stay true to the code. Got it.

Okay.

100%. You know your kids are doing somersaults or whatever. They're getting a 1, 2, 3 or 4.

Yeah.

Maybe some times five if it's perfect. But I'm just saying the whole rating system gets shifted down to this one now.

Cool.

And the same standard as well like fives like you. I'll even text like, hey, just threw up a four if I. Okay, Dave, if I text you, hey, I just threw up a four. Right. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Impressive.

See what I'm saying? I'm just saying this code is life.

Now also have leadership strategy and tactics. Field manual. Way The Warrior Kid 1, 2 and 3, Mikey and the Dragons. Discipline, equipment freedom. Field manual and extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership. We have a leadership consultancy called Echelon Front where we work with companies. Dave, what are you spearheading right now?

I think I'm. We are working with like 20 different companies on long range programs right now. I think everyone from a different sector, a different place in the market. And.

You said something a minute ago. It's the same exact thing with every single company, but everything is different because they're all different and not one single thing about it is boring.

My wife would tell you that I repeat myself a thousand times a day. I have not once gotten tired of it. And companies that working with us. The coolest thing about it is despite all the stuff going on in the world right now, they are getting better and it is so awesome to be a part of that.

So if you want that, go to echelonfront.com you can check out our consultancy. We also have an online training platform to make you a better leader. Not just through static training which is there. You can get some fundamentals reinforced, but you can also just sit there and ask me a question. You can come to a live interaction. I will be sitting there on my computer. You'll be on your computer and you can ask me, hey Jocko, here's the situation that I'm going through. I will answer it. You can talk to Dave, you can talk to Leif, you can talk to jp. You can talk to anyone on the Echelon Front team. So go to efonline.com if you want to hang out and talk. We also have the Muster which is a leadership conference. Two out of three have been canceled this year. The next One is Dallas, Texas December 3rd and 4th probably going to be social distancing so we have less seats and people from Orlando and and Phoenix are coming to Dallas so it's going to sell out even quicker than normal. Extreme ownership.com if you want to come to that.

We have EF Overwatch you heard on podcast the last podcast 244 Mike Sorelli George Randall this is Echelon fronts taking people from the military that have leadership experience and placing them into your civilian organization to help you bring your team into the winning category. And you know what, if you're already winning it will help you win harder.

And America's mighty warriors.org that is Mama Lee. That is Mark Lee's mom. If you want to support military personnel, if you want to support the families of military personnel, including gold star families around the world, you go To America's mighty warriors.org you can donate or you can get involved. Mama Lee, bless her heart. That is her mission and she is driving it.

And if you need more.

If you.

Can'T live without some more of my thought threatening theories or you'd like to hear some of echoes obtuse opinions or maybe you just like to hear one more of Dave's enthusiastic allegories then you can find us on the interwebs on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Dave is at David R. Burke B E R K Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And all the troops that take these combat lessons and apply them to your present duty to protect our right to self determination in the world, thank you for your service. And to the police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all the other first responders out there, thank you for doing what you you do every day to keep us safe when we need it the most. And everyone else out there.

You know, you hear these stories and you hear these theories and you hear these principles and there's no rocket science to them. There's no mystery.

It's the same thing. It's discipline, it's action, it's communication, it's follow through, it's planning. You know what what to do.

You know what leads to victory in combat and therefore you know what leads to victory in business and you know what leads to victory in life. Don't hesitate, don't wait. Now is the time to implement.

So go out there and get after it. And until next time, this is Dave an Echo and Jocko out.