439: How Are You Marketing Yourself? with BiggerPockets Producer Kevin Leahy

This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 439.

Okay, what can I do with my mailer? What can I do on my website that just sets me apart a little bit? I don't have to completely reinvent the wheel, but how can I carve out something and be that? Go to guy in my area.

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What's going on, everyone? It's Brennan Turner, host of the BiggerPockets podcast here with David Green in the sea shed again, because we literally just recorded two episodes in a row. It was last week's with Marie Forleo and this week where we're gonna talk about that episode a little bit. David Green. What's up, man? Welcome to the Seashed again.

Thank you very much. I'm glad I got to be here. This is.

It's still raining also.

Yes, it is. It's been raining this entire time. A week later, we haven't been able to leave. Please send food. We're starving.

It never rains here. I live in the desert, but it's been raining the last couple days anyway. So today, like we said, this show is going to unpack and really go in depth on a few different topics. First of all, we're going to talk a lot about this idea of everything is figureoutable. Meaning how can real estate investors apply this to their life of like, figuring out, asking, how do I accomplish this? Not can I accomplish this? We talk about that. We also talk a bit about the idea of calling yourself a real estate investor if you're not real one yet, if you're brand new, like, how do you do you fake it till you make it? We talk about that.

And.

Or do you. You don't want to turn people off if you're brand new. So how do you build that credibility when you're young? We talk a lot about that. And then third, we're going to talk in depth about marketing, about some of the ways that you can stand out as a marketer. And when I say marketing, I mean, like, you know, whether you're buying properties, selling properties, trying to raise private capital, try to talk to people that give you money from a private lending standpoint, talking to hard money lenders, doing direct Mail, marketing. All of that is marketing. It's basically how to get your business going. It's the fuel that runs your business in every aspect. We talk a lot about that today as well. So that's kind of a roundup of today's show. But before we get to that, let's get to today's Quick Tip. Today's Quick Tip is very simple and it's brought to you by our good friend and producer, Kevin. Kevin, welcome to the show, man. What's your Quick tip, man?

Always be ready. Always be ready. I was sitting here. I was sitting here. We finished this interview with Marie Forleo. I was kind of feeling really accomplished for booking such a big name on the show. I was planning out the rest of my holiday and Brandon says, hey, why don't you join us for a little wrap up here? Like, no, like, join us now. Do you even have a mic? I don't have a mic, ironically, so I'm the producer whose audio sounds terrible. And all the guests who have been on the show who have been really strict about their mics are gonna get a laugh out of this.

So, yeah, we literally gave Kevin like a 30 second and you were like, I don't know, man. And I was like, we used. The method from Marie is like, is the fear your GPS here that telling you to go towards it and you did it and you cut. You crushed it today, Kevin.

I hope so. We talk a lot about the basement guy. So stick, stick around for that. And you know, I get a little vulnerable about my own business challenges here.

Yeah. And we'll explain a little bit more in the, in the episode, who you are in, in terms of like your real estate journey. And Kevin is just an awesome dude. We're honored to have you as a, you know, producer on the show, Kevin. So thank you for doing that and for joining us on this episode.

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Now time to get into the interview with Kevin. Kevin, remind me. Leahy or the Lee. Hey.

Yes. That's how I brand myself and set myself apart from the other Leahy in the world.

Okay. Leahy. Yeah, like a Hawaiian. You have a lei like Yoda Lehi.

There it is.

Kevin Leahy.

That might actually stick as your brand from this point.

It's Kevin Yodelahi.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm gonna kick myself for that one.

Yeah, that's the yodeler investor.

Let's remember that when he comes on next time. Every time.

We're gonna.

We're gonna. I think that it should be announced every time you do a show with a yodeler that actually announces your presence.

And I have to dress in the traditional investments, of course.

Well, that's, that's a given, Kevin. All right, let's jump into this interview with Kevin as we unpack this show. All right, well, with that said, that was last week's show with Marie. If you guys did not listen to Last week's show with Marie, it was phenomenal. It was episode number 437 with Marie Forleo. You don't have to have listened to that episode in order to listen to this one, though. I definitely recommend it because we're going to unpack a few things she said specifically. Like I said, we're going to talk today about kind of marketing. We'll talk about that, about faking it till you make it, and also a little bit about this concept of everything is figure audible. So, Kevin, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you, guys. Kind of bringing me out of the shadows here.

Yeah. So let's talk about this show real quick. So, first of all, everything is figureoutable. When I first heard that phrase, her book came out, like a year ago or something like that. I heard it and I was like, that's a cool phrase. And then I never bought the book until, like, I don't know, what, a month ago or whatever, or a couple of weeks ago. And I knew she was going to come on the show. I was like, I got to read that book. So I read it. And Marie is very much. You guys will notice if you look up online, she's very much teaches mostly women, and same way BiggerPockets is like 80% male listeners. I think it is. Kevin, do you know what percentage is it still? 70. 80?

Yeah, it's about 80. 80%.

Okay. Yeah. Hers is, like, opposite, so it's like 80%, I think, female. And so, like, it's not a book I naturally pick up, but I wasn't kidding. It really is one of those books I will probably, like, recommend over and over. It's kind of like the compound effect. Not in. In this, in the content, but in the fact that it's like, this is like the ultimate development book for, like, I could. You could go read 20 different books, or you could read. Everything is figureoutable. And it has all the things that I'd want you to go read in the other books that make sense.

Yeah.

So it's kind of like. Yeah, it's like one ring to rule them all. One ring.

One ring to bind them.

Yeah.

Anyway, that's.

That's one book to. To bind them all. Anyway. But the phrase.

That beard's definitely influencing your speech, your communication style, by the way, I was.

I was somewhere yesterday and I said the line that somebody said, you're late.

And I said, that was with me.

Oh, was it? Yeah. You need to get it right. That's right. You were the one that screwed that up. I was like, brandon is never late. He arrives precisely when he means to. And David had no idea what I was talking about. Kevin, do you know what I'm talking about?

No. I assume it's a quote from Lord of the Rings.

Gee, that's a quote from Lord of the Rings. You guys are not nerdy enough for this show. All right, Everything is. Figure out that the phrase. What are your thoughts on that? What came to mind when you heard that? David.

First thing is that it flies in the face of excuses because just everything is figureoutable. If that's true, then when we tell ourselves things like, I can't do this, then everything is figurable. Isn't true. So the first thing I really liked about it is that it forces you to analyze the belief system you currently have. Do you believe everything is figureoutable or do you believe that the system is rigged against you and you can't make it unless. Fill in the blank. The second thing I liked about it is that it's also an invitation to figure things out, to tinker with things, to try to pull them apart. Look at how all the pieces fit together, which I would say that everybody here speaking agrees that's a healthier mindset to approach to something new is, can I look and see how this all works together?

Yeah. It's really good. And I like that it invites your mind to start working because it's a question. It leads to the question, how do I figure this out? Right? So, like, everything is figured out, at least to, how do I figure this thing out? Which goes to the Kiyosaki quote of, like, the wealthy say, I can't afford it. The poor, the. The same thing is like. Like, I've been talking my daughter a lot, who's four, right? Rosie. I say, like, instead of saying, I can't do it, it's how do I do it? Like, I can't figure this out. I can. I always. I tell the story once in a while of my daughter, she had this. One of those blocks, you know those blocks where, like, you put the shapes inside and the shapes only fit a certain way. So you got to put the peg.

In the round hole.

Yeah, exactly. It doesn't work. The square doesn't go in the round. You got to put the round around. And this is like a year ago, and she's got this box, and she's trying to put this shape in the box and it won't fit. And she's getting angrier and anger. And I'm watching. She's, you know, Three at the time. So she's like super cute and she's trying to put this thing in the box and she's getting angry and angry. She's like, ah. She just takes it and throws it across the room. Like little three year old Rosie just screams and throws it. It was just the perfect picture of like frustration, of what we all go through with different things. And she goes.

She takes like three deep breaths and she stomps over to it, she picks up this box and she takes the piece and she shoves it back in there and this time she turns it a little bit and slides right in. It was the right piece. It was actually just like, she just had it turned wrong, right? It was like going in kind of diagonal. And so when I saw that I just thought of this picture, this perfect picture of our life, of like we are trying to push things in this box all the time. I want to get this real estate business going. I'm trying to start this. Whatever you're trying to do. I'm trying to lose weight, I'm trying to improve my marriage and I just keep pushing this piece and it's not going and we want to throw it across the room but sometimes it's just a little tweak and it's asking the question, how do I make this fit? If it's figureoutable, if we take that belief, it's figureoutable. Now it's just a matter of twisting and all of a sudden the energy, like it's so much easier because now we're not pushing, we're just twisting a little bit. So the question I have for you guys is, is there and everyone listening, is there an area of your life right now where you feel like you're pushing really, really hard on something and getting frustrated that it's not working and, and really maybe just needs a little tweak. Maybe you just need to take some deep breaths like Rosie did and take some tweaks. Kevin, I want to throw that at you. You may have an area that you're struggling with right now in that maybe you do. But I'm also wondering where have you in your life used this idea of everything is figureoutable?

I think it just like Rosie, when she threw the thing down, she wasn't detaching from the problem that she was looking at. She was so wrapped up in it and so emotional about it. And that little moment of detachment. Jocko talks about that too. But that kind of stepping back and what I really like about Marie and how I discover her was through my wife, who, you know, I was actually facing the decision about whether I should take the bigger pockets job or this other job. The other job offer was actually real, Brandon. It wasn't just a negotiating taxi with you.

Okay.

I didn't know. I wondered if you were just playing with me.

Yeah, I don't think you bought. You were buying it. It was real. And, you know, the bigger pockets one, now, of course it looks great, but at the time it was more risky and the other one was a little bit of. More of a sure thing, kind of mainstream. And my wife said, you know, I know this woman, Marie Forleo, and she has this trick that she does whenever she's facing a big decision or feeling a little too close to something and has to make a high leverage decision. And what she does is she takes a step back and asks herself the question or writes it down and says, does this. Let me see how my body actually reacts to this. Does my body actually expand and, like, do I take a deep breath or do I contract and hunch my shoulders up and kind of feel like in a defensive crouch? And I did that and I was like, man, that is so good. Because it takes. It brings you a step back from the thing that's making you emotional and you're swept up in it and allows you a little bit of detachment. And same thing with writing things down as she talked about in the show. I think it just gives you a little bit of perspective and allows you to kind of slow down and think about things. And so I think that's kind of, you know, in my own real estate investing business, I've done the thing where, you know, you send direct mail. You don't have a clear strategy. I've heard thousands of people on the podcast say you need to be consistent about direct mail. And somehow I think I'm gonna be the one person who's different and send it once and get a reply. Right. But a lot of times you just get wrapped up in that. Oh, man. Everyone else is getting deals on social media. I'm not there yet. But if you take a step back and you think and you write it down, okay, what have I done? How many pieces have I sent? How many people have I sent those two to three times to? What have I really said to them? If you just sit there and write all that down, it just doesn't look like a personal thing anymore. It's like your strategy hasn't been good enough or you haven't given it enough time. So I think that's kind of how I would apply today to a real estate investing example.

So, in other words, the reason you're here is because of Marie. We owe Marie everything.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Marie. Thank you, Marie Forleo, for bringing Kevin to our. To our life. All right, David, what do you think on that before we move on to the second kind of note from today?

What I was thinking when this was being discussed is that intensity can be a red flag that you need to slow down and detach when you feel yourself with intense emotions trying to shove something in. What I think about is when your phone freezes and your screens are responding, what do we all do? We smash on it. Right. Just even more. This isn't working. Let me do more of what doesn't work, because there's a. I don't know where it comes from. There's a piece of us that just feels gratified by intensely trying to push through a problem that's real quick.

My dad. My dad. My mom and dad are visiting right now here in Hawaii. And my wife was just laughing at me.

Yes.

Or joking with me yesterday because she watched my dad try to answer his phone. And he grabs his phone and it's ringing and he can't press the button.

It's not answering.

He's like, it's not answer. It's not answering. He said it's like just hitting his phone, smashing his phone until it stops ringing up finally. Or it goes to voicemail. And like, he just goes. I'm like, all I want to do is like, dad, dad. We want to be like, dad. Just. Just slowly put your finger on the button and then slide it to answer. That's all you got to do. But it's impressing harder and harder. So anyway.

And it would have taken detachment for him to see himself out of it. There you go. So, you know, people are always going to have intense responses. Monitor yourself. And when you're feeling that emotion, say, okay, wait a minute, I'm doing it. Yeah. Let me take a step back. I've seen this a lot of time from new investors trying to force a deal. That's not going to work. So I get the question of how do I make this seller take my offer? What's the negotiating strategy that I can use? And to convince them to sell this to me for way less than asking price, even though they have seven other offers at asking price. And I just tell them, you're working on the wrong deal. There's intensity is not going to get this thing solved. You need to step back Find a person in a different situation. So that's the advice I'd have for everybody here, is when you find yourself frustrated and responding with intensity, remember Brandon's beautiful voice and Kevin's great example. Detach for a minute and ask yourself if this is the best tool to use to solve the problem.

That's good. Second thing I wanted to pull up from today's interview was this idea of calling yourself a business owner, in our case a real estate investor before you actually are one. And I wanted to get your thoughts on this. Kevin, I know like you're, you're, you've started your real estate. By the way, do you want to Give like a 10 second background on your real estate real quick? What are you doing? And I'm gonna ask you the question like, what are your thoughts on that? Like, is it misrepresenting yourself to tell everyone you're a real estate investor? But first let's give you a back, give a little insight who you are.

Yeah, so I kind of, I skipped straight to the rental property kind of phase of the real estate investing career. So I turned my primary residence into a rental, then bought a house hack. And so I do own three units in Washington D.C. which is like nothing seems that given the values here. Yeah, it's, but, but you know, I had less confidence in can I go out and negotiate a deal directly with someone in their living room. I kind of skipped over since I always had an agent helping me with the title and escrow process and the contract side. Do I actually know how to do all the steps involved in writing up a contract and figuring out someone's pain point and figuring out ways around that. And so that's kind of the phase of investing I'm in where I'm trying to find off market deals. And.

There'S a lot that comes with that that you haven't done before. And so that's kind of right now the, the phase that I'm in is trying to figure out how to make a direct to seller business work.

And so how do you feel about when you're talking to a seller if you're going to reach out to them? Like you're not, you're like if you were to say yeah, I buy houses all over the D.C. area, like that would be probably misrepresenting. Right. Because you don't buy them all over the. So how do you, how do you cross sell them without lying, without misrepresenting yourself? How do you also communicate that you're somebody to be trusted as a real Estate investor, even though you're just getting started.

And I think it makes it worse when I show up and they see that I look like I'm 16 years old. And James Daniel talked about that on his show with us. Ned Robin waiter. And he said, dude, at the time, I looked like I was 12. And so it's hard to get people to take you seriously. But, you know, I think the authenticity, I think a lot of people are going to see through it if you're going out and saying, we've been in this business so, you know, so long, and we flip this many houses. But I also think, you know, if you're someone like me who's going out and looking at deals and. And you might either be doing a joint venture with someone, because I don't have that much experience in renovations, or you're possibly looking at wholesaling a deal. I think it's good to just come out and be honest about that and say, hey, I work with various investors who have cash that they want to deploy, and they actually need to deploy, and they need projects. And so I have various people, we may close in their name, but I'll put down this big earnest money deposit so that you're secure. And so I think a lot of people get into wholesaling or trying to dig up deals, and they feel uneasy about that because they're like, well, I'm representing myself as this cash buyer. They might know I don't have $600,000 sitting around. But if you just represent yourself as, hey, I'm involved in the real estate game. I have some rental properties. We're always looking for more. We work with other people who have flipping businesses. Joe Asimo is a guy that I could buy a deal with him. So why don't I just represent myself that way with the. With the seller? And I think everyone knows that in businesses there's a marketing side. I can say, hey, my partner handles the financing side, so I'll ask him about that, right. Instead of saying, yeah, I have the money myself. So, yeah, I think it's being open about that and kind of thinking to yourself from the other person's side, does it make any sense if I show up to them and I say, yeah, I have cash ready to go to buy a house right now. I think their BS detector is going to start, you know, firing off a little bit if I do that. But if I said, hey, I work with investors, I go out and knock doors and get deals, that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, I think. I think you're exactly right there in that, like, if you're tr. They're gonna read through your. If you're lying, like, I got hundreds of thousand dollars sitting here. But if you're, like, honest, like, I've got private lenders or I got partners or I'm a piece of the deal, like, they're gonna be like, oh, okay, great. They want to solve their problems, so they. I don't think they're gonna care as much. David, what do you think on that? The fake it t make it versus, you know, be honest.

I'm not a fan of fake it till you make it. I'm a fan of the truth well told. So you explain to somebody what you're doing without ever lying, but that doesn't mean you just poorly throw it out there. Actually, I don't have any money at all. And I'm just praying that I can find someone that would buy your deal. And if they don't, sorry, man, but I'm not gonna buy it.

Yeah.

Okay. What it really comes down to is how you communicate what you're looking to do honestly, which is what we talked about in today's show. Marketing.

Yeah.

Marketing is your ability to communicate. And I think that is the secret. And you said something when we got done that. This isn't talked about enough, but it's probably the most important skill anybody can have in any business.

Yeah, agreed. And that's actually the third thing. Yeah. I wanted to talk about here today. Here at the ending is. Is just that idea that of marketing. Being a marketer, A lot of people might have heard Marie say that, and they're just thinking, well, Marie has an online business. She teaches people how to do online business. That doesn't apply to me, but, like, marketing is everything. Let me give you an example and like, of how I use marketing in my real estate. Like, at a. At a big level on. Oh, yeah. And as a small level and as a big level. But for example, so my fund. I have a real estate fund. We raise a lot of money. We buy mobile home parks.

Right.

But if I just say, I, you know, I've got a fund, I'm just like everybody else, right? So I had to ask, how do I communicate what my fund does better than other funds or other syndication projects? How do I. How do I communicate that better? So I find ways to do that. I come up with new branding or new names, or I find a special. A special niche that I think we have a really unique angle at. That's what that. When I think marketing from Real estate. That's what I'm talking about. The same thing could apply to, hey, I want to be a better marketer for my first duplex. Okay, well what does that mean? Like maybe you are like really good at. If you decide you want to be the duplex person in Cincinnati, great. So get really good at that. How do you market to people who own duplexes? Well, maybe that means going to like list source or going to one of the other one PropStream and getting a list of all the duplexes in Cincinnati and then writing a letter. What's that letter going to say? That's marketing is how do you communicate your the one that they should be talking to that they should buy from or sell to. I mean it's really the same thing here. And that's what a marketing is. So I think marketing and communication is just so under used and talked about in real estate because we just think of real.

We don't.

For some reason we don't think of real estate as a business. You know, like it's crazy, but it is a business. But why don't we think of it that way?

Because we call it investing.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, it's a label. When you're buying stocks, you're not really running a business. You're just pushing a button. And I think because a lot of people take that stock mentality into real estate, by the way, have you noticed that. That there's a lot to get into it that think that the goal is to buy low and sell high, which is how you make money with stocks. But it's not even. It's one way you make money with real estate was probably not even the biggest one. Yeah, I think that's the problem is.

That'S a really good point, David. I thought of that before.

I think that's where the virus comes from, is that's. And then that's why people get frustrated with real estate too, because it's not as easy as pushing a button to buy stock like this comes up all the time. Stocks are real estate. And I hate this argument because it's always worded like which one will make you more money. But they're not apples and apples. Stocks are a lot easier. There's a lot less that you're doing. You can get a lower return in stocks and it still could make sense because you're not doing all the work. Real estate has more, more work going into it. So that's one of the reasons that you and I have been slowly, subtly working in business. Into real estate because we want people to start thinking of themselves as a business owner and identifying as a business owner instead of a passive investor.

Which is why we're bringing on people like Ed Mylett and Marie Forleo and like, these guests that are coming on the weekend shows. Because, like, this is a trait, this is what you need to succeed long term at the business of real estate is you need to understand these concepts. Kevin, what do you think on this whole idea of marketing? Like, how do you use this in your business? How do you see people using it correctly?

Well, first of all, I love bringing great marketers on the show because there's this moment on the show where they say, okay, I have this concept and I like to call it. And I can see Brandon and his face starting to get jealous because he didn't think of that. And that happened with. That happened with Marie today. Right. Brandon goes, everything is figureoutable. I love this concept, but I can see the jealousy on his face. He wanted to get to these phrases first. Right? So, you know, I think once you turn on this, we talk about the reticular activating system and how if you're looking to buy a truck, you see trucks everywhere. I think once you turn this on, you will see it everywhere with any kind of marketing. I was walking to the mailbox the other day and I saw a truck with a contractor and it said the basement guy. And it just had a picture of his face that was all. There was no, like, fancy branding or anything like that. But I was like, he's the basement guy. And now, like, in my mind, he has associated himself with basements, and all the properties out here in D.C. have basements. And he probably deals with moisture and probably pretty. Does pretty dang well for himself with his little business out of his F150. So I think once you start noticing that marketing stuff, like on the business podcast, the Bigger Pockets business podcast number three, we had Brent Underwood, who's a fantastic marketer. Brandon, you're friends with probably one of.

The best marketers on the planet.

He's awesome. And he does little things, like he has a hostel that he runs in Austin. But I guarantee you, he asked himself, how can we be different from all the other hostels in Austin? And he got a goat, and the goat chews the grass on the property, and there's probably all kinds of tax benefits and stuff that come with that. But also everyone probably takes selfies with the goat that stays at his place and then post them online. And he's the Goat hostel guy. And so once you start seeing those things, you can think to yourself, okay, what can I do with my mailer? What can I do on my website? That just sets me apart a little bit. I don't have to completely reinvent the wheel, but how can I carve out something and be that go to guy in my area?

Do you remember Tucker Marho back the first time we had on the show he talked about he had his dog. His mailer was like whatever his dog's name was, I don't know, Chief or something like that. Chief buys houses. And it was like this big mastiff. I think it was like that was, the postcard was his dog.

And I think he even, I think he even said that he would choose the areas of Portland where people are really into dogs and he would use that marketing there, you know, and that's just taking that extra step to think about the person on the other side of that marketing piece. I'm spending two bucks on the piece. Isn't it worth spending a little time thinking what's going to stand out to them and what's going to stick in their mind because they're not going to probably be ready to buy their house, to sell their house the first time they receive a letter.

Yeah, it's really good.

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You know, one thing I've been thinking about lately and I'm, I'm still trying to put like a framework behind this and I'm just talking through it, so I'll talk through it with you guys real quick is like I was talking to somebody who had kind of a commodity type business. I didn't remember who the person was or what they were doing, but it was something that like selling some product. And we were talking about like how do you differentiate yourself to sell that. And real estate is very similar. There's a lot of people trying to buy houses right now. We are a commodity business in a way in that like if I was a motivated seller, I could sell to you or I could sell to, you know, David, I sell to Kevin, I could sell to one of the listeners on the show. There's anybody could solve my problem. Probably just like if I was going to buy a toothbrush, there's 100 companies that can sell me a toothbrush. So how do you differentiate yourself? And I came up with a couple of thoughts. One, think of bulletproof coffee. So bulletproof coffee is an example of marketing in which if you're not familiar with bulletproof, bulletproof is a type of coffee where you add coffee with like grass fed butter. M. Was it MCT oil or MTC oil? Whatever it is like the oil, it's like basically coconut type oil. And then there's like there's something else you do to it. Anyway, the Point being, like, it's like just like a formula of like three things you add to your coffee. It's supposed to make you more awake and aware. It's got more fat content with the butter. But Bulletproof was like the guy, Dave Asprey I think is his name. Like, he basically created this new thing which was like butter with, I'm sorry, coffee with like fat in it. Then he labels it as like bulletproof coffee as a thing. And then who are you going to buy your coffee through? Well, I'm going to buy it through bulletproof coffee companies. In other words, he created a category and this is where I'm getting out with this is he created a brand new category and then happened to fulfill that category. So that's one really good way of marketing. I did that in a way with my, with my fund is we created a cash growth fund. It's a growth that like, I mean, I don't even go into it, but basically we have a dip. Like we created a brand new type of real estate fund and then I'm, I'm the only guy that does that. Now. In reality, it's, yes, there's a spin to it and yes, there's other funds that are great. But our unique thing that's we created the category. But another way to do it would be like Tom shoes. So what did Tom's do? Tom's is buy a pair of shoes. Give up. They give a pair of shoes to somebody in need. Like, you know, in a country where they don't have shoes. Like, so in other words, shoes are a commodity. You can buy shoes from anybody, they're all over. You go to Walmart, Target and buy shoes. Why would you buy from Tom's? Because now you're doing something good. People want to do good for the world. So that's another way that you can differentiate your product is by like, how can you make them feel better? It's kind of the Simon Sinek start with why? Like they want to buy. They don't want to buy what you have, they want to buy why you have it. I've heard that phrase before. And then sometimes it's just the cheapest option. Like, can you give people the best deal ever? Like, some people are really good at, like, this is just either a superior product or the cheapest product. So really there's four things in this framework, right? The best product you're offering. So you can offer a seller the best price or you can sell a house that's better than every other house on the Market, there's the cheapest option. I can give a better deal than anything else. So I can. Whatever that is. I don't know if we're buying a property. And then there's the category section. Being a category, you create your own. And then there's. I don't know, whatever I just mentioned whatever it was. Those are like the four of like, how to differentiate yourself. So anyway, this is a thought that's been in my head. I've been trying to put that into a framework. What do you think on that?

I think this is why you're the best marketer that I know. You just came up with all of that on the fly.

Well, thanks. It's been in my head for a long time. Much longer than it should have. So thank you.

But yeah, you're. You're absolutely right. You do, you do have to differentiate yourself. But I probably want to highlight. It doesn't have to be something radical.

I agree.

It doesn't have to be. I'm the goat person.

Right.

Like, I think I did that with my real estate team by saying we are real estate agents that help that think like investors. So we approach this from a perspective of I am protecting your income and helping make. Build you wealth through real estate. Which was different than I'm the local blank expert or I hold your hand better than everyone else. We said, no, what we're good at doing is making you money through real estate. That's what we're going to help with. And then I built a team around that because that's what the needs.

But what you did there, and you may not even notice that you did it, is you. You implied everyone else, all those other agents out there, they are not going to make you money.

Well, that's exactly right. And they're not.

Yeah, we're going to make you money. We're the only ones that can make you money. And I would even say that that fits in the category thing. We are a category that's unique in this area and that we are investor agents that understand investing and as a category and you need a name for it. Like, you know, we are a. We are in, in, you know, green investors. And it's investors who understand greenies. Yeah, but we're a bunch of greenies. Yeah, like you put a name to it. Now you're bulletproof coffee. You invented a brand new thing. And not that you're the only one in the world doing it, but to the client that you're talking with, in my world, I'm in your world. You're the only one.

That's the secret. Like when someone wants to sell their house, I'm saying, listen, we're going to do it this way because this is going to get net you the very most you could possibly get. I'm not going to be the cheapest one. I'm going to be the best one. But in that world, I'm the basement guy for those people. And that's really what you have to do to be successful at whatever business that you're starting is your sphere of people. Those that follow you, those that know you have to see you as Boardwalk and Park Place on the Monopoly board. You are that you own the real estate of that thing that they're looking at. And what Kevin is getting into is he's trying to figure out, well, I want to buy houses in Washington, D.C. how do I differentiate myself from the other buyers? He's starting that process of going down that road. And Kevin, at a certain point, you're going to hit it, you're going to pick up traction, and boom, you're going to be picking up lots of properties.

And I think it's such a good point that it doesn't have to be a extreme thing, right? It doesn't have to be. We'll buy your house and we'll donate to this charity. Like, like Tom's was like a radical idea. But I've. I thought of kind of a couple subtle ones, which, like, I know, David, a lot of times if you're choosing between giving someone, there's a seller, right, and they've named their price, and you're representing your client, and you're either going to give the full price offer and write that offer, but then you're going to ask for some concessions and closing, like help with closing costs. That seller feels so much better about selling you their house at the full price and getting that full price from you than doing it the other way around.

Let me.

Let me Undercut you by 5,000 and then pay the full closing costs. I think that's interesting to think about when you're dealing with directly with homeowners, too, is like, there's a guy named Jerry Green, I think he's in Ohio, and I heard him on a podcast. He talked about how he always would do the standard thing of set an appointment, go to the appointment, walk through the house, point out things that might be wrong with the house, then give an offer. Then he switched it and started giving an offer on the phone and. And then sending a professional inspector to the house afterward. And I think it's just a psychological thing with sellers where they like that surety of having the offer over the phone, even if later you're gonna ask them for some concessions on the price. Cause you didn't see it. And so I think for him like that was a small thing that kind of exploded his business. Not saying it's gonna work in every market, might not work in my market, but it's basically the same steps just in different order.

You know, my brother recently was talking to me because he got a real estate license. Now he's talking about becoming an agent. And he was saying like, how do I though differentiate myself? Because I don't have any experience, I've never done any deals. I'm curious if your answer on this one. And this does apply to real estate investors as well. So keep listening. If you're not, you don't care about agency. But he said, how do I differentiate myself? And I said, well, you don't have the experience. You can't pull that card and be like, well, I'm the most experienced agent, so what can you do? Well, if you don't have any clients right now, it means you got 24 hours a day that you can serve those people. So I was like, I would honestly make a guarantee and brand it with something. It's called, it's called the 10 Minute Guarantee. I will return your phone call in 10 minutes, 247 guaranteed, or I'm going to pay you $100 gift card to wherever restaurant you want or something like that, right? So like I guarantee you because what's one of the biggest frustrations people have with agents is I can't get a hold of my agent time or. But if you're like I 247 test me, you call me at 3 in the morning, I don't care, I will return your call in 10 minutes or less guaranteed, or I'll give you $100. And like that would make me want to work with an agent. Like if I was some, I'd be like, oh yeah, he owns the category of that. Like that, that's a special thing no one else has ever done. And so if you don't have the experience in a business you're going to start, what do you have? Your lack of experience you can make up for in the amount of time. And if you promise a guarantee like that, like that will mean the world.

To, especially to those who have dealt with frustration that people aren't calling them back. Someone like me that might not expect you to, that wouldn't go that really far, but correct. I'm in. Pushing this square peg in this round hole. They won't answer their phone. I'm so sick of it. When you see that boom, it's going to draw you. Yeah, right there.

So imagine him, not that he would do this, but imagine getting a billboard on the highway. It just says, we guarantee to call you back in 10 minutes or less or we'll pay you $100.

The responsive realtor.

The responsive realtor, right.

Yeah.

And you put that on the thing. Guaranteed callback in 10 minutes. Or, you know, we can show you any home in 30 seconds or 30 minutes or less or whatever that thing is. Right. Like, yeah. Not 90% of people won't care about that. They haven't had that pain point of struggling with an agent that will come back, but thousands of people in an area have had that pain point. So you can become the basement guy to those people, and that's how you market to those people. And so whether it's real estate you're investing, you're building a business, you're an appraiser, it doesn't matter. What can you do that sets yourself out and then how you show that is what really. Maria's getting out with marketing, so we could do a whole show on marketing. This is cool.

I mean, the next level is you can even back into what are those things that are frustrating my client? And you can go on biggerpockets forums and type in agent, you know, frustrated or something like that, and see what people are saying and then. And then tune into those, you know, find whatever forum is gonna is good and use that exact language. Right. Are you. Are you tired of your agent never picking up your call?

There's this guy named, like, Dane something or another. I can't remember what. I heard him on a smart passive income podcast like 10 years ago, probably. He did an episode with Pat and he has this. He had a thing called the Foundation. I don't even think it exists anymore. But their whole model of building online businesses was to go to an industry and then just dig. Not you don't have to be in the industry, but just dig in. What's your problem? What's your problem? What's your problem? And like, you find what their problem is. So, like, for example, you go to the dental world and you go and talk to dental hygienists and say, what is your problem? You really dig and interview a dozen of them or two dozen of them and really find out what they're struggling with. And then you go create a product just for them. And then that, that idea is like you're solving a problem. And I always love that. That was one of the better podcasts I think I've ever listened to because it was so, like, yes, like, this is so good. So if you're. How it applies to real estate, I would say, yeah, what are the problems that. If you're trying to buy from a motivated seller, what are the problems they have? What are the things that they get frustrated with? For example, and mobile home parks. Right now, the biggest problem that sellers have is people not being able to get financing. Okay. So we just offer all cash. Like we, we raised enough money that we can do offer all cash, and then we just bur the properties, we just immediately go and refinance them with the lender after we buy them. But we, we are offering all cash on properties because that is one way that we stand out. Because that was a problem we just kept hearing over and over, was that because of COVID all these sellers were getting jerked around because they thought they could close and really couldn't. So anyway, again, asking, what's the problem that your customers are having or that potential customers having? It's just such good business.

If I could boil down what is an entrepreneur? It's a professional problem solver.

Yeah.

Like, I'll just give you a couple examples. I found out last week the mortgage company I started has been in business for about six months now. We're in the top 100 loan originators in the country in our six month of business. Right.

That's crazy.

And if you probably want. What's the question? You're wondering?

How'd you do that?

How'd you do that? Right. I asked every loan officer I knew. What slows you down? What's your biggest problem? What would you guess if they said paperwork? Yeah, really close. It's collecting documentation from the borrowers who don't want to do it. Okay. Then I went to borrowers and I said, what's the worst part of the loan process? Having to give all my paperwork, Having to take the time to do all this stuff when I don't know if I'm getting an answer. Then I went to people and I said, hey, you're a loan officer. What is your biggest struggle as a new one? I don't have anyone to teach me what to do. I have to figure this out on my own. And I just came up with a system that solved all three of those problems. We are going to take junior loan officers they're exciting to get licensed or they are licensed. Teach them ways to successfully get documentation from the borrower by communicating very clearly why it's so important and making it easier. By doing that, they made themselves very valuable. They got a job. They supported the senior loan officer who knew what to do once they had the paperwork. That one little solution that I came up with that fixed all three people, boom, the pipeline flooded. And I'm just using this as an example that this is how every single business owner should approach every single thing that they have. What's your problem? I don't have enough people coming to me asking me to fix up their basement. Okay. Do you think people know that you do basements? No. Why don't you brand your F150 with Basement Guy? Now he's going to have another problem, right? I'm growing too fast. I need people to work with me. Well, how are we going to solve that problem? There's people that need to work, that need to learn the business. They don't know it yet. Come up with an apprenticeship model. That's all entrepreneurs are doing. And real estate is a form of that. And this is. We're just giving these examples so other people can kind of take what I did, apply it to their situation, apply it to their scenario and understand, be grateful for problems. Right? That's what creates opportunity. Entrepreneurs solve problems. Don't. When you throw the thing across the room like Rosie did, go pick it up and look at it from a different angle and say, how do I solve this problem? As opposed to, I don't want to deal with problems. How do I make money without it?

So good.

Kevin, any thoughts on that last closing thought here, which is a good one for real estate investors? I lost out on a huge deal to one other person, and price was not the problem. And I wound up finding out from the seller, like, what the difference was, which, which is a great thing to do, super painful to do. And I, you know, I was aware of both problems that she had, but I just didn't come up with a good solution to solve them. Whereas the guy who beat me out put in addendum to the contract saying two things. Number one, I'll pay for your moving services with a local company. That's an easy one that I just kind of overlooked. That was her one pain point. The other pain point was she had to talk to one more person, which is a classic thing. Hey, I'm ready at this price, but I just need to run it by my stepmom. She had to do that for me. I said, okay, cool. Let's talk tomorrow. For him, he said, let's sign this contract. You can cancel the contract in 48 hours if you want to for any reason whatsoever.

That's really good.

And you know, what happened is he got the signature on the paper. She must have checked with her, and it was okay. And then there you go. So that's just a perfect example in stark terms. And a painful lesson of really seek out those problems and then think hard about, is there something that I don't know how to do to solve that problem? And you know, can I conjure that up in a moment?

That's really good. That one tip probably is going to make a lot of people a lot of money just getting. Let's get the contract signed. You can cancel in 48 hours.

I love that.

It's like, because people are much less likely to cancel. That's why I like the whole free trial. Just dollar free trial. Just give us your credit card number. Just got to cancel within 30 days. Not a big deal.

So true. You know what? Who else uses this technique very well?

Who's that?

You. When you're writing, you are a better writer than me because I just give people information. You pull them in, but thanks by giving one sentence at a time that creates more and more interest. You get them committed to the. To reading it, and then they actually read it. And you do more good for people because they get the. They. The spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, whereas mine's so dry. I don't think people read my content as much as yours.

That's not even close to me.

So that just as an example. Right. This principle works in many, many different things. I can see. Like, you want to get somebody into working out, going to the gym more often. Hey, just come with me. Just spot me when we're here.

Yeah, right.

You want to get someone into jiu jitsu? Hey, let's just like wrestle around for 10 minutes. I'll just show you some easy stuff. Like you get them committing to tiny little pieces and move them forward.

I know they call this the puppy dog clothes in negotiations. I've read that in a couple of different negotiation books. Because they. Or the pet Stop. Pet shop clothes. Anyway, the idea being you're at a pet shop and they're like, just take the dog home for the weekend. Like, just bring him back on Monday if you're not into it. Not a big deal. No one brings the puppy back in on Monday. Like, you just. You don't do that. That's not a thing.

Right?

You can't, like, once it's in your house, you fall in love with it. So the more you can get people like, yeah, take the puppy home for the weekend, the significantly higher chance you have of getting them to convert to whatever it is you're trying to do, whether it's trying to buy a property, sell a property, whatever. Yeah, that's good, Kevin. Look at Kevin bringing gold today.

We'll have to get that guy in the show. I'll grill him on the show.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, the guy who beat you out. Love it. All right, guys. Well, this has been a fun kind of wrap up and yeah, it was really cool. So thank you for joining us, Kevin. We'll have to do this more often than I like you joining me.

Can I take us out?

Please do.

For Brandon Turner and David Green. Oh, I screwed it up.

Leave that in there. Leave that in there.

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