476: Using Partners to Scale & Killing it With Airbnbs w/ Tony J Robinson

This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 476.

Real estate investing itself is not complicated. Like the idea of real estate investing is actually quite simple. But people always confuse simple versus easy. Right? Or complicated versus hard. And real estate investing, even though it's pretty simple, it is very hard, right? It's not easy, but it is very hard. And it takes a lot of work to stick with it long enough to see the result.

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What's going on, everyone? It's Brendan Turner, host of the BiggerPockets podcast, here with my co host, Mr. David Short Term Rookie Green. What's up, man? How you doing?

Short term rental. Short term rookie. Very nice. Yeah, I am a rookie in the short term rental game. Yeah, I'm doing amazing. I'm co hosting the best and biggest real estate podcast, maybe the best and biggest podcast ever in the world. So how could I be having a bad day?

Well, you could be hosting the newest, best real estate show in the world called Real Estate Rookie, but instead, Tony Robinson is hosting that one along with Ashley. So speaking of Tony Robinson, that's our guest today. Tony Robinson is going to be joining us today. He's the host of the new Bigger Pockets Real Estate Rookie podcast. That's a pretty good transition, right? Did you see how I flowed that?

Do you flow like a river? I tell people all the time.

Well, I got stuck at the end and it was like a dam.

Every river has one though, right? Like it's either a waterfall or a dam and you never know what you're going to get.

Or a damn waterfall, one of the two. All right, we got to move on with today's show. Like I said, today's guest is Tony Robinson, who is the host of the Real Estate Rookie Podcast on BiggerPockets Podcast Network. And that show is phenomenal. And I did not know Tony's story very much, really, at all. I knew he did a little bit with short term rentals and he'd done a little bit of long term rentals. So today we dive into both those. How he got into the long term rentals for no money down. Some no money down deals recently. Like, this is not like 06 07. This is like 20, 19, 2020 stuff. You're going to learn a little about that. You're going to learn why he transitioned from long term into short term. Whether or not you care about short term rentals or not, like that conversation is so important. You're going to learn a little bit of how to make a short term rental business work really well. You're going to talk about partnerships, how to bring in the right partner, how to find them, how to vet them. We cover stuff on mindset, we stuff about how to find a great market, how to learn your market.

Finding the market.

Yeah, that was powerful about how to learn your market, long distance investing and more.

Tony gives a great example of how to get familiar with a short term rental market. Step by step, super simple strategy.

Yeah. And he talks about how to say no, like how to focus on your thing and to say no to everything else. And his actual like language of how he tells somebody no is so good. That's something you're definitely going to pull from today's episode. So that and more. Enough chatting. Let's get to today's quick tip. All right, today's quick tip is simple. We need your help. You see, we launched a couple new YouTube channels here at BiggerPockets Network. We have some new YouTube channels. So now all the content doesn't just go to the BiggerPockets YouTube channel. We now have a money podcast channel and we have a rookie podcast channel. So what we need your help with is we have to get to a thousand subscribers before we can change the name to Real Estate Rookie and money. So what we need you to do is go to the show notes page, biggerpockets.com show 476 and then there you're gonna find links to both those YouTube channels. We want you to go there and subscribe because we got to get a thousand people there. So that would help us out a lot. And then you'd be subscribing to a channel that gives great information about real estate investing. So it's good to do it anyway. But that is today's quick tip. You can also go to my Instagram or David's Instagram. We'll put a link in our like our story or bio or something like that that probably the bio that'll link to that as well. So yeah, anyway, David Green, 24 or Bearded Brandon or @BiggerPockets. That is today's quick tip.

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All right. David Green, anything you want to cover before we get into today's show with Tony?

Yeah. If you like this episode, send it to someone that you are friends with but that is not into real estate investing. Just make your own friends. Send today's episode to someone who might be interested in it, who this could catch their attention and you can create your own community.

So good. Yeah, because this is like the rookie show. I mean like we're like this is a show I wanted to send people. Like I even said that before we started recording is I want to make a show so that when people are like hey, I want to get into real estate. What should I do? Listen to this show. This would be a good One to get started with. So send it to somebody you know. And last thing, if you're watching this on YouTube, don't forget to get that little thumbs up button right now below the video. If you like it so far. And if you don't, when you start liking it, give that thumbs up button and subscribe to our channel. Of course. Or you're watching it. So I think it's time to get into today's show with Tony Robinson. Let's bring in Tony Tony Robinson. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. How you doing, man?

I am doing fantastic, guys. I'm super excited to be here. I feel like, like, the freshman in high school who's hanging out with the seniors today. So I'm glad you guys brought me on.

When I was a freshman in high school and there was a senior, I can't remember his name, but he had, like, white hair and he was really annoying. I was walking down the hall one day and he takes it and just, like, from behind books me. You know what that is where, like, you shove the books out of your hand. I have this big pile of book, and they go flying everywhere, and everyone's like. And like, just 100 people watched me slowly pick up my books and papers for, like, five minutes and laughed at me. So this will not be like that, Tony.

Okay?

This will be better than that.

Well, it's kind of reminiscent because when I was a freshman, all the seniors had much bigger beards than I do. So I'm kind of getting flashbacks.

Right, There you go. There you go.

I love how Brandon's high school was so small. There was one senior in it. He said, the senior in my high school.

No, this guy was like the scene. Like, he's like the quintessential, like, horrible senior when you're a freshman. It was awful.

Anyway, I do probably rents one of your houses.

He probably does. Yeah.

The last laugh, Mr. Books.

Let's jump in. I do want to apologize to our audience real quick. Everyone came on here going, oh, they got Tony Robbins on the show. And then they're like, oh, Tony Robinson. But I want to. I want to tell you guys, Tony Robinson is so much cooler than Tony Robbins right here. You're gonna hear it today. And here's why. Because Tony Robinson is the host of the Bigger Pockets rookie podcast, and you do a phenomenal job over there. So I thought it'd be a good idea to get our audience a little bit more familiar with you, your story, because it's pretty awesome. And then maybe they'll go check out your show afterwards. So that sounds like a good plan today, fellas.

You get sounds like a plan. I'm excited. Let's dive in.

All right, tell us about yourself. How did you get this idea? I want to invest in real estate someday.

I'm kind of fortunate because my dad planted the seed for me early. I was one of the kids, like, in junior high school that had to read rich dad, poor dad over the summer. So my dad kind of started me young, and he actually ran, like, a wholesaling business in Detroit. We're based in Southern California. He had a wholesaling business out in Detroit, and he did it for about five years. And then 2008 happens. His business kind of collapses like so many other businesses. And the one thing he told me after that happened, he was like, probably the biggest mistake I made was not holding any of those properties that I wholesaled. So he kind of imprinted on me early on that if you want to find true financial success, you need some level of passive income. So I had that seed planted really early. I graduated from college. I'm like, doing the whole W2 thing. And then as soon as I have enough income to actually make an investment, I go out and I make it happen.

All right, so what was that very first deal?

Yeah. So in one of the most glamorous places on earth, in the city of Shreveport, Louisiana, Most of probably not heard of Sexy. Yeah, it's like the number three biggest city in Louisiana. But I ended up in that market again. I'm in Southern California because I had family that relocated out there. And, you know, I was out there visiting people. And it was actually my mom. My mom and my stepdad moved out there after they were retired down here in California. And they bought this house that had been vacant for, like, three years. They bought it for $25,000. They put another $30,000 into the rehab. And when they were done, the house appraised for about a hundred thousand dollars. And the coolest thing was that they found a bank that funded 100% of the purchase and the rehab for that property. So when I saw that, I was like, there's gotta be something here that I can tap into. So I go out there and I chat with the lady at the bank, and I'm like, hey, is this like a fluke or is this like a one? Will you lend to anybody for the whole construction and rehab and purchase price? And she's like, yeah, you know, there are some structures that you need to follow, some check boxes you need to check. But Once she gave me the requirements, I went out there, I found a deal that worked and I actually bought two properties using that same 100% funding for the purchase and the rehab. So that was my initial foray into real estate investing.

When was this?

I got my first property, we closed in October of 2019 and then I closed on my second one in December of that year.

Okay, so we're not talking like pre 2007 bank, like this is a modern bank, was offering you 100% financing. Now a lot of people listening right now going that that sounds too good to be true. Like there's no banks that are lending 100% rehab and purchase price. So how did you find that? I mean, just because you knew your, your in law or your parents had it.

Yeah, so once my mom said that that's how they did it, I was like, well if they can do it, I'm pretty sure I can figure it out too. So. But here's what I'll say is that it was a local credit union to that city. I was able to get the loan from them because you have to either it's like live, worship or work there. But my relationship with my parents, that kind of satisfied their requirements. But they had enough flexibility with whatever lending programs they wanted because they were small and local. So I went with it.

Yeah, it's a really good lesson for people is when you hear things like there are no banks lending this way. There are like you have to have this credit score, you have to have this asset, you can't have this LTV or debt to income or whatever to understand that those are generally guidelines of like the big banks.

Right.

But you can get a little more flexible with the small stuff, the small banks.

Right. Yeah. And it worked out great for me. Right. And I've referred several other people to that bank as well. So there's other investors that are doing the same thing. And I've since talked to other people that invest in other smaller markets and it's not that uncommon. If you do the homework to make it, you know, to find a bank that does it.

Yeah, I think a lot of it, especially in the smaller, the credit unions, it comes down to like, yeah, like relationship, like the old fashioned way of banking. When they go before the board of their bank, can they say, yeah, this is a good bet, I think we can put some money on this person and lend them the deal.

But I will put the caveat that it had to be a good deal. Right. Like this wasn't like I found a house where the rehab and the purchase price were about 70% of the ARV, so. And I did that twice. So it all starts with kind of finding the good deal first. Otherwise those numbers don't work.

So for those who are brand new to this thing, maybe this is the first time ever listen to a real estate podcast. Let's take it to a rookie level. What the heck does that mean? A 70% ARV, right.

So when we talk ARV, that means after repair value. So after you purchase this old beat up house and you do all the renovations, what do you expect that house will be worth? The requirements of this bank were that you needed to have your purchase price and your rehab be no more than 70% of what that house would be worth once the repairs were done. So at like a very basic example level, if that house, after all repairs are completed, will be worth $100,000, it means your purchase price and your construction could be no more than 70% or $70,000. And those are the guidelines that they gave me.

Yeah, that's cool. All right, so what was this very first property? I mean, what, a single family house, I'm assuming?

Yeah, single family house, three bedroom, two bath, built in, I think like 1955 somewhere around there. Hadn't been updated since 1955 or somewhere around there. There were shag carpets, really old wood paneling, popcorn ceilings. Everything you think of when you think of a 1955 house this thing had. So we pretty much gutted the entire house and kind of put in new everything. And I'm trying to remember the numbers here. We paid $100,000 for it, spent another 55,000 or so on the rehab. So we're all in for about 155. And the house appraised for 230 after it was all said and done.

Yeah, that's some good equity in there.

So can I jump in for a quick second? Make a point? I have heard stories like this so many times that are amazing that people never get because they were worried about the interest rate on the bank. Like, why is my friend getting a 3.2 when I'm getting a 3.4? We were mentioning that earlier. Certain banks will give certain loans to people under different conditions. With the deal that good, your interest rate could have been 8% and it would still be worth doing. And I just want to highlight that the deal itself so far outweighs something as minimal as a couple percentage points on interest rate that don't shoot yourself in the foot trying to win that battle.

Absolutely. I mean, I think the interest rate on that was about 6%, but it was also, it worked on a draw, right? So I was only paying interest on the money that I was actually paying out to the contractor. So it was like I was spending maybe a couple hundred bucks a month for like the first two payments that I made. And it wasn't until the rehab finished, I was paying somewhere close to like, what a regular mortgage might be.

Yeah, that's cool, man. All right, so let's talk about the distance thing. A lot of people, when they're thinking about getting into real estate investing, especially like in the beginning, they're a rookie. They're like, I don't want to just like, I can't just go buy some across the country. So what are some of the principles that work that you found work? Well, because I know we can get in the rest of your story, but while we're on the topic, like, what's worked well for long distance investing for you? How has that worked? Do you recommend newbies? Start that way? What's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I guess before I get into, like, what's worked for me, I just want to talk about, like the mindset piece first. Right. Because so many people, I think, take the emotional aspect of buying their primary residence and try and apply that to the business aspect of buying an investment property. When you're buying your primary residence, you're walking through, you're trying to picture yourself living in this house. You imagine Christmas morning, you imagine your kids, first steps, whatever it is, there's all these emotional pieces tied to it. And when you're buying an investment property, none of those things are going to happen. You're not going to wake up at your investment property, hopefully on Christmas morning, right. Your tenants are going to wake up there. So the paradigm that you need to have when you're shopping for an investment property is totally different than a primary residence. The approach that I take is that when I'm investing, I want to make sure that I'm surrounding myself with the team of the right people that can give me the right advice that can support me in the right way. Typically, those people that I have on my team are my property manager, some kind of handyman, a realtor, and then my lending partner. Right. When I'm shopping out of state. Right. For every property that I've purchased, I've only seen one house in person before I bought it. Every other property, I haven't seen it in person before I purchased it. And the way that I'm able to do that is Because I have the right team. I have my realtor go through the property first. Then I have a property inspector walk through the property. I might have my handyman go through and take a look at it as well. And if I have all three of those people looking at the property, how much value can I add? Especially if you're a new investor, ask yourself, like, how much additional value can you add on top of what your realtor, your inspector, and a handyman have already added to that property? And the answer is probably nothing. Like, you're probably not going to point out anything of substance that those three people haven't already pointed out. So what value do you actually have by being close to the property? What value do you actually add by walking through it yourself? So the biggest thing for me first, guys, is, is the mindset and understanding that having the right systems, right people in place to fill in the gaps that you don't have as a new investor is the most important thing. So I went off on a tangent. Brandon, I forgot what your initial question was, so that's okay.

This sounds so eerily familiar. Where did you get this information from, Tony?

There was this book that I read a while ago. I can't quite. No, no. So, like. And David, we shared this. You know I shared this with you when you went on. On the real estate rookie podcast. Right? Was. I read long distance real estate investing and I read the Burr book when I was looking to get started. And literally just applying those concepts is what allowed me to feel comfortable and investing in a state that's thousands of miles away.

Well, thank you. I now know you actually did read them because that was a really good breakdown of what's in those books.

Well, David, can you explain the analogy? You told me one time this, David, and it made a big difference on me about the analogy of like going to a mechanic, like, or opening up your car engine and going, well, this must be the problem.

What is that?

Everybody thinks you need to walk a house because you're just supposed to. It feels like the right thing to do. And it's very similar to when us guys are driving a car and it breaks down and we pull over and we pop open the hood. Well, we feel like we're supposed to. Right. Every one of us feels compelled to do that. But I'm gonna assume you guys are like me, that when I look at it, I have no idea what I'm looking at. That's the secret. Like, ladies, we don't know. None of us know. And this happens to us in Life all the time. We're just like playing the role of what we think we're supposed to do. But I wouldn't be able to tell you what's wrong with my car. What I really need is to get it towed to a mechanics. Like I could just not open the hood at all. Just call aaa, have them take it. The mechanic, have them tell me what's wrong with their car. That's when I actually can make a decision that I'm informed. And real estate's the same way for us. The mechanic is the home inspector. I could walk through a house and I can look at it and I can knock on stuff, right? Like, same thing, you're in the grocery store, we all pick up watermelons and knock. Do we know what we're listening for? Did any of us grow up with like living in the forest knocking on cantaloupes, trying to figure out which ones to eat? No, it's just we think we're supposed to do that. And I just, probably faster than most people made peace with the fact that I don't know how this thing works. I don't need to. I need to see that report and turn every problem into a number. That's what I like to do. Oh, there's lead based paint. What would it cost to fix that? Oh, there's asbestos. What would it cost to fix that? Oh, there's a foundation problem. What would it cost to fix that? Based on this report, I know what I need. The numbers I need to get in. Once I have numbers, I have an apples to apples comparison that I can use to decide what my home run number will be for that property.

Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. And we talk a lot about on the show that almost every, like, judgment call that we make as people, it's really like an algorithm or a formula we are running through our head. Like whether or not to pursue a property. We think that we're running like there's something subjective in our being, but in reality we're just saying no. Know, like, is the next door neighbor's house completely trashed and there's a bunch of like broken down cars in the driveway. If there is, we're like, no, we don't like that. So what we're doing here is we're basically taking what we might say is subjective. Or we think it's just like a gut feeling. And really we're just putting like a math or a number to it. Like, does it check this box or not? And then once we do that. Once we can formulate our thoughts into some kind of system or process, then it becomes a whole lot easier or even better. You find an agent who understands that same system. So you rely on them because they've got years of experience. You don't need to build the system because you've got an amazing agent or partner or lender or property manager or any of those core four members. Like, they already know that system for you. So, yeah, really good. All right, man. So you bought these properties. Let's go back to your story. You bought some of these. No money down. I think you said you did two of them. Is that right? Of the 100% financing. Okay, so what happened next?

So after those two, we got two more properties under contract in Louisiana. These are really, really heavy rehabs. These are the first two that we bought from wholesalers. We paid cash for them or like we used cash equivalents. We had some line of credits that we used. And while we have both of these properties under contract, my partner comes to me and he's like, hey, I think I want to buy a cabin in Tennessee. And we're both in California, had never even been to Tennessee before. I'm like, what are you talking about? And he says, hey, there's a very booming market in Tennessee right now for short term rentals. And he actually gave me the link to Avery Carl's BiggerPockets episode. I can't remember. I think it was like 368 or something like that that I listened to that. I'm like, okay, this sounds like, like something real. So we end up putting an offer in on a cabin, and lo and behold, it gets accepted. We have no idea really what we're doing. We'd never ran a short term rental before, done very little, kind of, I guess, educational steps before we put in that. That offer. But we talked to other investors that were making it work in that market. So we end up closing on that in August of last year. And since that first purchase, we've now bought, bought eight short term rentals in total. So we've got eight right now with another five under contract. So we've gone just kind of head first into the short term rental space.

Wow, that's cool. First of all, how did covet affect your, Like, I know you just got into it, but how did covet affect your short term rentals? Did it at all?

Not at all. I mean, so we bought our first one in August of 2020. So Covid was kind of already in swing. Yeah. And we bought also In Tennessee, which honestly is like a bit more relax of a state than where I live here in California. So we had a pretty strong end of the year and then we got our first ones up in Joshua Tree in late fall, early, early winter. And same for those. They've been all performing pretty well, I think, honestly Covid, except for the first like month or two. Right. March and April of 2020 were rough. But I'd say once the, the initial kind of shock of COVID wore off, there was like this pent up demand for people to get out and go places but still kind of be by themselves. And I think short term rentals have filled that gap that you don't quite get when you're going to a hotel, stay there.

I 100% agree. Yeah, I've talked about a few times on the show. But I'm kind of testing out a business idea out here in Maui. It's called like a month in Maui.com. and the whole idea is like people like are pent up and they like a lot of people now are working from wherever they want. So I'm like, why don't I just offer short term rentals for a month? Like no, no more, no less. Just you come for a month. And so we're testing the idea. We'll see if it actually pans out. I think it's going to be kind of cool. But it's for the exact same reason. I'm like, I think there is a growing trend or movement in the world and I want to capitalize on that. Was that what got you excited about short term rentals or why did you go that route?

That was one of the things that got me excited that I also saw that kind of shift happening in the marketplace. But I think the biggest driver for us was the cash flow. At the end of the day, the first house that we bought, the first long term rental that we bought, we were cash flowing about 150 bucks per month. And when I looked at the income that I was making my W2 job, I was going to need a lot of houses at $150 per month to replace my W2 income. But when I saw the potential revenues from short term rentals and I needed far fewer of those active and operating to be able to replace my W2 income. So for me it was understanding what my long term goals were and then deciding on which asset class would help me get there the fastest.

So let me ask you this and I'm going to have you explain to us what the benefits of short Term rentals are. One of the clear concerns would be that they are a little more volatile, they are affected by market conditions more. How have you hedged against having such a heavily weighted portfolio of short term rentals in case something goes wrong?

Strong.

That's a great question, Dave. And this comes up all the time. I think the first thing that I'll say is that when you decide to start investing in short term rentals, you have to understand that there's inherently more risk than there are with long term rentals. You have the risks of the fact that this is primarily driven, at least in the markets that I invest in, primarily driven by leisure. So if there's a big hit to the travel industry that you have an opportunity of having your business be impacted, there's the fact that you're kind of at the mercy of some of these platforms. Airbnb and Verbor are the two biggest platforms to, to kind of generate business force. You have to understand that you're at the mercy of those platforms. There's multiple guests going through, multiple people going through your property on a monthly basis. Right. There's some risk associated with that. So there's definitely more risk that comes along with investing in short term rentals. But at the same time, I'm approaching this not so much as a long term rental investor who's buying short term rentals. I'm approaching this as someone who's focused on creating a hospitality business. Because if you purchase a short term rental, that's what it is. And I've heard some investors say that you should never buy a short term rental if it doesn't pencil out as a long term rental. And I completely disagree with that. Because if I'm Hilton or I'm Marriott and I'm building a hotel, I'm not going to say, hey, we're not going to build this hotel if it doesn't work as an apartment complex. Like, that's not their backup plan. They're first and foremost in the hospitality industry and their goal is, is to create like world class experience for their guests. So that's the mindset that I go into when I'm buying my short term rentals. But to answer your initial question, David, about like how I hedge some of those risks first is that I invest in markets where the primary economic driver is travel and tourism. Right in the Smoky Mountains and in Tennessee and in Joshua Tree where we have our other properties, the main economic driver is people coming into the national parks, staying overnight, eating at the local restaurants, doing things like that. It's not like Los Angeles where there's film and television or there's big business headquarters or there's universities. The main economic driver is people coming and staying overnight to visit the park. So that's the first thing that I do is I invest in places that financially rely on short term rentals. It doesn't necessarily mean that you won't have some negative legislation passed, but it really reduces the risk that they would completely outlaw short term rentals. The second thing that I do is I try and make sure that I buy really nice properties, right? Like I try and make sure that I'm not. Some people put up like glamping units and to me that's not really an appreciating asset. So I don't know if I would ever build a glamping unit. Some people buy Airstreams as their short term rentals. I probably wouldn't do that either for the same reason it's not an appreciating asset. So I still make sure that the underlying like business fundamentals of being a real estate investor apply to everything that I'm buying. I think those are the two biggest things, right? Like, like we're trying to make sure we're in the right market and we're buying the right asset. I could go on forever, but I don't.

Well, are you also sort of manag your personal finances in a way that you can weather storms in case they do see more vacancies than you'd expect?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean we've, and we can get into this later but like when I made the decision to leave my W2 job, I had maybe two and a half years worth of salary, like expenses just like stocked away, right. So if, if something goes sideways I know that we've got enough cash reserves to handle those kind of things.

And so that's what I want to highlight because there are people that say never buy a short term rental unless it can pay for itself as a long term rental. And, and hardly any of them ever will. They're often in higher price, more expensive markets where the price to rent ratio doesn't support it. And I just wanted to say it's not irresponsible to do that in the way that Tony's doing it. If you've taken a means to account for worst case scenarios in other areas of your life by living beneath your means, by keeping money in reserves, you've accomplished the same thing as making sure that you could use it as a long term rental if you need it.

Plus one other addition. There Like, I got some friends out here, Caroline and Mike, they live here and they own a bunch of. Actually, David, you know them as well. Well, but out here in Maui, they own a bunch of vacation rentals. And I was talking to them recently and they say that I asked them how Covid. I mean, because Maui shut down. I mean, there was no travel for like six months here. Nobody was staying. I asked them how they survived. Like, oh yeah, we're profitable for the year. I was like, how the heck were you profitable? Like you have no, all you have is short term rentals. And they said, oh, we were just very aggressive on making sure that the 10% of people who are actually still coming to Maui that they stayed with us, which means we made our properties nicer and we made sure our price was cheaper. And so, yeah, we were giving 50%, 60, 70% off sometimes times to make sure they were full. But they were super aggressive on how they ran their business versus almost everyone else who just hires some random property manager to take care of their short term rentals. Well, when everything went to hell, all those just sat empty for six months. Right. So they were involved in it and that's how they managed to make sure they were still profitable throughout the whole year. Then when things came back, boom, they came back hard and now they're just killing it once again. Which is really what encouraged me to start buying short term rentals here. So, you know. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes skill and hard work and like self management can overcome. And I didn't say like, not that you're cleaning toilets and answering phones necessarily, but just being involved in a business is a good way to overcome some of the risks as well.

We spend a lot of time just like really getting to know our market. Right. And knowing what works and knowing what doesn't. And I feel like intimately knowing your competition and how you can start edging your bets against them is a way to stay competitive as well.

That advice is so good for short term rental or long term. Like, know your market. How can you be competitive in your market market? By knowing your market better than everyone else. So you're like, wow, my market, three bedrooms are really, really popular here. Or you know, nobody has a five bedroom house, but there's so many people out here that want a five bedroom. Oh, there's a competitive advantage there. So we could add a bedroom. And now we got five. And now we're section eight. We can rent out for 3,500amonth and whoa, we're cash flowing two grand. Like knowing that it Goes back to what David and I always say. It's like, you don't just find good deals in today's market. Today you make good deals. And how do you make them them? By being smart, by understanding what works, by knowing you're like that, those little advantages. So I want to throw this at you. How do you learn a market if somebody's brand new to real estate and they're like, I'm brand new, I want to invest in real estate in X Town. What does it mean to learn your market?

That is a great question. So I can tell you what I did and what I encourage other people to do. The first thing that I'm doing is I'm opening up Zillow literally every day, every morning to see what's coming on the market, just so I can start getting a sense for what's the going price for a three bedroom, what's the going price for a two bedroom, what's the going price for a one bedroom? And over time, you really start to develop, okay, here's like the average ballpark price I should be expecting for something of this size. Once you've got a decent handle on the prices, then you start want to start looking at what are the potential incomes. So on the short term rental side, there's different websites that you can use to kind of gather that information. But on the long term rental side, open up Zillow, check the four rent listings, go to Craigslist, go to Facebook, Marketplace, whatever medium you want to use, Start looking to see what are the average rents for different properties. So what I would do is I would literally take like an Excel spreadsheet or Google spreadsheet, and I would just start plugging in all these different listings that I saw so I could start tracking what the rents look like. And over time, you get really, really comfortable with what those different prices are. So to me, it starts with that really knowing what the average sale prices are and then what the average rent prices are. And after, after a while, after you analyze enough deals, it becomes really second nature to you.

Yeah, that's really, really good. Yeah. David, anything you want to add on that about knowing your market?

Yeah, and that's something every beginner can start with. That takes zero dollars. And just time you go on Airbnb and you start looking at what the price range is, everything between say 180 and 220 a night, and then getting to know which are the ones that are getting 220, what do they look like? What are the ones look like? That's getting 160. Then, like Tony said, start looking at the price points and start recognizing where the sweet spot looks like it is. You know, if you're having to pay 33% more for one extra bedroom, that's probably not going to generate enough income to pay for itself. I think that a lot of the mistake newbies make is that they think that someone's going to tell them what to do without putting the time and the reps in of understanding what that market should look like. And that's honestly why I think people in our position are a little hesitant to jump in with a newbie and say, just go do this. Because we know inherently I would have to sit with you and go through a hundred deals to get you a baseline for what you're looking at. And I can't commit to that. So then we end up just not answering when they say, hey, how can you help me with this thing? I see Tony nodding your head. Is that a. Do you feel that pressure too sometimes?

All the time. All the time. No, I just want to add one other thing, right. Because you talked about, like, analyzing for short term rentals. I want to share, like, the process that I go through for myself when we're trying to see, like, okay, will this make sense of the short term rental? So there are some paid tools, right? So Price Labs has something called the market dashboard. So Price Labs code, and you can go into their market dashboard and they've got a ton, a ton of data. It is a paid subscription. So if you want the freeway, I'm gonna give everyone the free way to go do this. So say that you're looking at a listing and it's a two bedroom, one bath in the city of Joshua Tree, California. What I would do is I would go into Airbnb, I would filter it down to two bedrooms, and I'm going to look for every listing that's comparable to the listing that I'm thinking about buying. And I'm going to look at a few different things. I'm going to look at, at the 30 day calendar. So, you know, in Airbnb, you can actually look at the calendar for all the listings that are there. I'm gonna look at the 30, the 60, the 90, and the 180 day calendar for all those properties. And as I'm looking at those, I'm gonna see what's the average rate that this property is charging for each one of those time intervals. And then I'm going to look at the occupancy for each one of those different time intervals as well. Once you do that for like five or six listings, you'll have a really, really solid understanding of what that property could potentially do over the course of an entire year. But it's important to get the six month because what a property charges in January is going to be very different than what it's charging during July. So you want to get a right enough range to make sure that your average daily rate averages out across the year. So that's the process that I follow. Literally when I got it started, that's what I did to get familiar with markets on the short term rental side.

That's a great, great strategy. I love how simple that is, how anybody can do it.

Yeah, really good.

Brandon, what were you going to say before that?

That.

So today I was at coffee this morning and some guy like sitting next to us, he like turned around, he's like, hey, I know that voice. And he was like a Bigger pockets guy, right? So he's telling me his story and at one point he said something that I was like, I grabbed my phone, I was like, dude, will you say that again? I just want to play that. I'm going see if this will work. I'm going to play it up to my microphone. Listen to what he says here. It's related to what we just talked about. Listen to this. Will you say that again?

So we ran 100 deals and literally.

Exactly on the 100th deal that we.

Ran in Bigger pockets is when we got our first investment property. That's awesome. Could you guys hear that?

Okay, yeah, that came through.

He analyzed 100 deals in order to learn his market. He was like, yeah, I just like did what you said. And he's like, I analyzed 100 deals. And on the 100th deal is when we finally landed our first one. And it just, I was like, I always say, if you really want to know your market, we're going the numbers on 100 deals. And like by the time you're done with that, you're going to have a really good idea, a really good idea of what your market looks like. So anyway, just thought that was fun.

Funny. Brad, I gotta add one comment on there because we hear so often in the real estate rookie Facebook group that people are saying, hey, you know, I've analyzed five deals or I've submitted three offers and I still haven't, like, nothing's happening. Like I'm doing this all wrong. And we have to go in there so often and say, like, if you've got to do like this guy. 10, 20, 50, 100. Before you start questioning your approach. But I think people are so used to that instant gratification of, okay, I read the book, analyzed five deals. Why is this not working? That they don't understand that it takes. Takes time, and it takes repetition, and it takes doing it over and over and over and over again. Like, the thing that I always say on the Ricky show, right, Is that I'm sure you guys have said the same thing as well, is that real estate investing itself is not complicated. Like, the idea of real estate investing is actually quite simple. But people always confuse simple versus easy, right? Or complicated versus hard. And real estate investing, even though it's pretty simple, it is very hard. Hard, right? It's not easy, but it is very hard. And it takes a lot of work to stick with it long enough to see the results.

It's hard mentally more than it is, like, physically, right? It's hard to stick with something long enough. At opener capital. When we're analyzing these big apartments and mobile home park deals and stuff like that, and we'll get, like, rejected. Like, we'll go two, three weeks with nothing. They'll go like, oh, man, should we change up our approach? And, like, that's. The team starts having these conversations and myself as well. And then I always remind myself, wait, wait, wait. How many have we actually really analyzed and made offers on since our last one went through? And we look at the numbers, like, 13. I'm like, okay, let's just set a number. We make 50 offers. If none of them get accepted now we have a problem. Let's talk then. But until then, let's just stick with the process. And guess what? It always ends up getting another one. In fact, we went almost a month with no deals, and we were starting to. Yeah. Oh, man. Like, it's getting a little while. Then we got two in one day. And we're like, all right. And those two deals were like, 400 lot mobile home park. And it's like that we were went from behind our goal to suddenly ahead of our goal for the year, where we need to be just by that one deal, and we got two in one day. And so, like, trust the process because it works. Get that number. Set a number. Where do you want to be? How many offers, how many leads, how many, whatever. And then trust that process and start tweaking it. Try to make it better, of course. But don't tweak it on your third try because you had three rejections.

I love it. And the same thing we preach all the time. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Partnerships. Let's talk partnerships for a little bit. Getting into real estate, people are questioning, should I bring in a partner? Should I do it by myself? First of all, what are your. You've said you do a lot of partnerships, it sounds like, and I'm wondering, when should somebody partner? When shouldn't they partner? How do you find a good partner? Let's talk about that.

Yeah. So that's kind of a loaded question. There's so much to unpack there. When it comes to partnerships, I think the first thing that I'll talk about is, like, why you should partner. I think this comes up a lot as well. And why I partnered was for a couple of reasons. One, when I first started, I was still working at W2, so I knew I didn't have the time that was necessary to fully dedicate. So for me, it was. It was a lack of time. It was the capital. Right. I wanted to make sure that we had enough capital to successfully go into this venture. And honestly, it was just having another brain to kind of bounce ideas off of. Sometimes when you're new, it's nice to have that kind of sounding board of someone else's thoughts to say, hey, is this the right way to go? And to get some of that feedback? So those are some of the reasons that I went into it. And then the fourth reason is just. Just I knew what my weaknesses were. I know that I'm more of, like, the visionary, big picture thinker. Like, I want to move at a thousand miles an hour, and I'm not so good at, like, remembering to turn on the utilities or, like, getting the insurance set up, like, all those small things. Right. But the guy that I partner with, who's actually my wife's cousin, he's great at all of those things. So he and I have kind of been talking before. He had an interest in investing in real estate. When I presented this deal to him, he jumped in right away. And it's been a pretty seamless relationship ever since. Sense in terms of what I think has made our partnership work, first is that I think we do a really good job of communicating and being open and honest with each other. I think one of the fastest ways to ruin any relationship, but especially a business partnership, is to not be vocal when one of you feel that something isn't going the right way. He and I are very quick to kind of call each other out if we feel that, hey, you know, I don't think this is the right move. I don't think it's the right thing to do and we're both very open to the other person's opinion. The second thing that works really well for us is that we stay in our lane, right? Like, I know the things that I'm supposed to be focusing on. He knows things that he's supposed to be focusing on. My wife, she's our third partner for our short term rental business. She knows what she's supposed to be focusing on. So with the three of us kind of being all in our seat, that's what's allowing us to move really quickly. And then the third thing is that we've got, especially for the. When we bring in other partners, right? Because we've got our Alpha Geek capital team. That's like the core of me, my wife and her cousin. But we also bring in other partners. And whenever we bring in another partner, we have a very clear joint venture agreement that we all signed that outlines everything, every single part of the partnership, down to how we distribute profits. So when you have that clarity up front, it removes a lot of the ambiguity, kind of those points of tension that could arise from a partnership if you don't handle it the right way.

That is so good. We need to take that last clip and throw that on YouTube or something for like, how to have a real estate partnership, because that was phenomenal. What do you see as some of the common mistakes that people make when they're getting into partnerships? What are the things to avoid?

Probably just doing the opposite of what I just said, right? So like, not. Not giving, not. Yeah. Not like not having those sub discussions up front, I think is the biggest thing. If you guys both are going into it with some assumptions, but those assumptions are wrong. Like you're thinking that your partner's thinking one thing, your partner's thinking something else. And then when the time comes to make the decisions or the time comes to kind of work through that disagreement, that's when the partnerships start falling apart because you guys didn't have those tough conversations up front. So think making sure that you guys iron out as many of those sticky, kind of hard to have discussions as soon as possible is going to set you guys up for success. And then the second thing is, like I said, making sure that you're staying in your own lane. We didn't start off that way. Right. There was literally a day where two of us called to set up utilities for the same property. Like, that's how all over the place we were. Right. So it took us a while to figure out, okay, who's going to do what? This is your role. So making sure that each of them you identifies and accepts your role, but then also trust the other person to do their job right. Like, you have to trust the other person to do what it is that you expect them to do. Sometimes my wife comes to me, she's like the point person for dealing with the guests, and she's like, hey, you know, husband, this thing is happening. I'm like, babe, I trust you. Like, you know, you're the person that does this part. If you make the wrong decision, it's okay, we'll figure it out, we'll make it right the next time. But I trust you to do the right thing or to make a mistake. So I think trust and having those tough communications, if you don't do those things, those are probably the biggest pitfalls.

So let's say somebody finds themselves in an unhealthy or ineffective business partnership right now, what advice would you offer them to get out of it?

What advice to get out of it? I mean, I think the biggest thing is just recognizing as fast as possible that you're in the. In the wrong partnership. In my mind, being in the wrong partnership longer than you need to is so detrimental because not only are you now investing your time, your energy into this person, to this business partnership that isn't going anywhere, but there's also an opportunity cost of you not doing something else that could be more fruitful. So I don't know if you gotta buy yourself out of that contract. If you just walk away from it and say, hey, partner, you have everything. Because I want to be done with it. I mean, that's the steps that I would take. So whatever steps you need to take to get out of it as fast as possible is what I would do. Because I think what we see a lot of people do, David, is that when they kind of see these difficult conversations that need to be had, they start shying away from it and they just hope that the problem gets fixed on its own. But in reality, most problems never get fixed on their own. And someone has to step up and be the person that's going to solve the problem. And I think you've got to have the encouraged to do that.

Hey, one more tip that I found works on partnerships that I've had a lot of success with and a lot of failures with. And so I've learned to become good at this is I no longer partner with someone and just say, okay, let's partner in this business. Let's build a big business together. No matter what it is, right? Because you never know how you're going to like working with someone until you work with them. And it's not like they're a bad person or a good person. It's just sometimes you jive well, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you, you discover things later you don't want to. So now I'm always like, hey, let's do a deal together. Let's do something small. Let's try, let's see how it works and then do another one, and then another one. And after several of those, fine, then maybe it's time. Let's form a big company together and let's go take this thing to the moon. But it's really messy when you have all these grand plans and you give all this equity and you have this partnership and then you realize like five minutes in you're like, oh no, this is a terrible idea. It's a lot harder to back out than it is just to not do another deal together. So that's the advice I usually get people when they want to partner is don't think of partnership. Just think, I'm going to JV and you deal and see how that goes.

So, and that's how we started too. It was one deal and that's what we used to scale to, to where we are today.

That's cool, man.

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So where do you see yourself like headed with you? Primarily the short term. You can also do go back to some of the longer term stuff. Where do you see yourself going?

As I've matured, I've tried to not go after like you know, have like the squirrel syndrome where you're going after all these different things. So right now, at least for the next like five years, like I don't want to purchase anything but short term rentals. We are adding like a wholesaling arm to our business but it's only really to support our short term rental endeavors. Like the markets that we invest in, they're very competitive. So we know that going direct to seller will be beneficial for, for us and then for the deals that we don't want to keep ourselves, we'll probably just pass them off to another investor. But for us right now it's short term rental focused all the way. The short term goal for us is we want to get to a half a million dollars in profit distributions in a 12 month period. So we're not there yet. We still got, we got to add quite a few units to get there. But that's the goal that we're working towards.

You know, I really like that when you're learning a sport like when we were playing basketball, the first usually week of tryouts, they didn't even bring out a. It was just pure defensive slides and running through the offense and these fundamentals that were drilled into your brain and at the point that they sort of became second nature, they would introduce another layer of complexity. Okay, now there's a ball but there's no opponent. And then at the point where you got used to doing that, it was okay, now there's an opponent but we're going to just play half court. I think there's something to be said for Learning real estate investing that same way. I really like Tony that you're saying, I'm just going to do short term rentals for five years. I'm going to focus on these fundamentals. I'm going to master this element of my craft, like this movement in martial arts. And when I've got this down, I will then consider adding on something else as opposed to I'm just going to jump in there and immerse myself in an entire mixed martial arts background and be really bad at a whole bunch of different things.

It's so easy. I feel like anyone that's entrepreneurial, it's so easy to get distracted. But I think the hallmark of a great entrepreneur isn't how often you say yes, but how often you say no. Know, and I literally just told someone this morning. He came to me, he said, hey Tony, I want to build 10 short term rentals in Joshua Tree, California. Do you want to do that with me? And initially I said yes. But after I thought about it, I said, I've got so many other projects going on that if I take on this project with you, I won't do it effectively and it's unfair of me to say yes to you because I know I won't have the bandwidth to do it. So not only am I super focused on short term rentals, but I'm also super focused on the specific business plan that we've developed to grow within that short term rental asset class.

Yeah, it's really, really good. Yeah. That saying no is difficult. I like the way you just put that though, is like, look, I would love to do it, but if I do it, I will not be as effective as if somebody else does it or if, if I was focused on it. I just be have to be honest with myself that I'm not going to be there. So, yeah, really, really good stuff. All right, so let's talk about finding deals you mentioned off market. Is that how you found all the short term rentals there in Joshua Tree?

It's been a mix, right? I think as you start to build a bit of a reputation in a market, it becomes a little bit easier to find the next deal.

Deal.

Our first two purchases, three purchases in Joshua Tree all came off the mls. Everything else that we've purchased has come actually from one person. It's a builder out there in Joshua Tree and as soon as he's done building them, we're just buying them from him. So that's been our approach out there. Very similar concept in the Smoky Mountains. My first two came off the mls. The other four we have under contract over there are also directly from the builder. So the benefit of kind of going that route, having that relationship is that that we're not negotiating with other people or trying to outbid other people that are on the mls. We're getting it straight from the source.

That's cool. Well, this brings another question. You bet. How about you're in the two areas, Joshua Tree, and you're in the Smoky Mountains area. There's a pro and con to focusing on one or two areas. Right. The benefit being you get to learn that market really well. You get to hone your marketing there and all that. The con, of course, is that you're all in that market. So if something did happen in that market, you're just really heavily invested. So how do you balance that risk versus reward. Reward when it comes to not just short term, but it could apply to long term as well. But between focusing and being good and having all your eggs in one basket.

That's a good question and something that we ask ourselves all the time. Like, hey, what is the critical mass that we want to hit in either of these markets before we move on to a third? And the honest answer is we don't know yet. I think we're still trying to figure that out. I can tell you why we kind of split off into two markets initially. And it was because we were having difficulties continuing to find deals that pencil out in the Smoky Mountain mountains. So we said, okay, what's another market that has similar characteristics where we can find similar returns, that has maybe a better price point? And that's what drew us to Joshua Tree. We're having very similar discussions now. Joshua Tree is heating up like crazy over the last six months. We bought a house in September for $300,000. We could probably sell it today for 450. Right. It hasn't even been a year yet. So we're starting to do the same thing, like what's the third market? So I think what's really going to push us out of the markets isn't so much that we. We've maybe had too much risk in that market. It's more so that the market is heating up and we need to find another market where we can get better returns.

Yeah, really good, man. I got two more things on the short term rentals. First of all, how are you funding them right now? What's your current funding process and what's your long term strategy going to be?

Yeah, good question. So we use what's called a Second home or vacation home mortgage for all of these purchases. Slightly different than your typical investment property loan, but there's some major benefits that come along with it. And Avery Carl was the one that turned us onto this when she was interviewed in the podcast a while ago. Ago. But the benefits for that, it's for most purchase prices, a 10% down payment, as opposed to the 20, 25% down payment that you get with a typical investment property loan. The interest rates themselves are almost in lockstep with like a personal loan. We close on a property in February at 2.65% for short term rental, which is insane. And the third benefit is that they're almost always 30 year fixed terms. So every single property that we've purchased has been using this vacation home mortgage. And it's not like it's not a secret, it's not some hidden thing that you got to be really cool or like buddy, buddy to like. Most big lending institutions have something similar to this and that's what we've used. There are some limitations though. You can only have one of these mortgages in each market that you invest in. So, like the way that we did our first few deals, I got a mortgage in Tennessee that my partner got one in Tennessee. I got one in Joshua Tree, that my partner got one in Joshua Tree. And once we kind of maxed out those loans, we could get ourselves. That's when we started partnering with other people who come in and carry their mortgage for us. And then we're doing all the heavy lifting, getting the property running. But that's how we've been able to scale and so use that favorable financing.

Nice. So you bring in partners who help you finance the deal. And do you guys like split it 50, 50 or does it depend on the. The deal specific or how do you.

Yeah, it's typically 50. 50. Yeah. And the partner brings the capital, they carry the mortgage. We're doing all the work of acquisition, setup, property management, so on and so forth.

That is exactly my plan with that month in Maui thing. That's funny. Yeah, we think, we think alike because the benefit, of course.

Yeah.

If you're allowed only a certain number of mortgages. So you just find more and more people you bring in that they can give you the mortgage, you put it in there, they help you get the mortgage and the down payment and you split costs. Yeah, it's such a good strategy. I'm really glad to hear you say that.

And it's still a much better return than what they get if they went out and Bought like a turnkey single family investment of their own.

Exactly.

Like as a long term rental.

And because you're managing the process. Yeah. You're going to do well there. That's awesome, man. All right, cool, guys. Well, I think we probably got to start moving on. Why don't we hit the next segment of the show? It's called our deal deep dive.

The deal deep dive is where we dive into one particular deal that you've done and get to know some numbers on the in specifics. So you got one in mind, Tony, that we can dig into?

Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk about the first cabin that we purchased out in Tennessee.

All right, well, that answers my first question, which was what was it and where was it at?

So thank you.

There you go. David Green, you take number two.

How did you find. Find it right off the mls. So this was before things in the Smoky mountains got too crazy. And it was listed and we put in an offer.

How much was the property listed at? How much did you buy it for?

So we got it under. It was listed for $590,000. And we got it for just about that price. I think we negotiated about seven grand off during the inspection process and things came up so right around there. But our total cash investment was right on the nose at about $59,000.

Okay, how did you fund this deal?

Deal.

So we use the 10 down vacation home mortgage. So like I said, $590,000 purchase price. It was literally $59,000 for the closing costs. My partner and I, we had the funds available just from money we had saved up and took it down pretty easily.

All right, and then what did you do with it? I think we probably know the answer to that, but Flip Rental Burr Vacation Rental.

So this was a short term rental, but what was unique about this property was that it was a pre existing short term rent rental, but it was under contract with the property management company and we had to honor that property management company's agreements I think for like six weeks. Six or six or eight weeks after we purchased it, but in the 12 months, like in the year prior. So in the year of 2019, that cabin had only grossed 80,000, $85,000 gross. And I might be getting ahead of myself here, but we're projecting the same cabin will do about $160,000 in gross revenue in the first year that we own. Own it. So the person who's managing it and the strategy they employ makes a huge difference.

A hundred percent, yeah. When I had that short term rental like four Years ago. I've talked about a lot on the show here. I went out in like Grays Harbor, Washington and when I was managing it, like, I mean it was a pain in the butt and I was having to deal with tenant constant turnover and all that stuff was really annoying as short term rentals can be. And I was doing everything. I was like the it, but I was running it at 100 occupancy pretty much. I mean it was always filled. And then I handed over this like slick property manager that they were like promising all these great things and they could take care of it for me and get my workload down to zero. And occupancy dropped. Not to like 80% or 60 or 40. It dropped to zero.

Like zero.

Not a single person rented it after they took over. Like, I don't even understand how that's possible. And they went several months and I'm like, why? We're not making any money. When I finally like looked back into it, it's amazing how much relies on the way you manage it. Which is why, yeah, this time I'm building an in house team team to manage my short term rental portfolio. I'm going to do it. A totally different strategy. Sounds like you guys are doing something similar.

All right, what was the outcome?

Outcome is that this is the best investment that I think I've ever made in my life. I don't think we'll. I don't think we'll ever get another. Because this is a 5 bedroom, 5 bath, 2700 square foot cabin. Prime location in the Smoky Mountains. We could probably sell this today for like $800,000 if we wanted to. So I don't think we'll ever get another deal as good as this one. So I hope to keep, keep this.

What's the night rental on that? What's the cost to rent that for night?

It's going to vary a lot, right? In like January, February, when times are slow. We're probably around 2 70, 300 bucks per night during the peak season. If you're talking like November, December, it's over. There's some nights we're charging over $1,000. So I say on average we're probably going to get somewhere around like 475 for the entire year.

What lessons can you pull out of.

This deal to share with the audience there, man? So many. I think the biggest thing that this one taught me was that, that sometimes you have to take a bit of a leap of faith in your real estate investing journey. Like I said when we got this property under contract. We had talked to other real estate investors that were doing well on the short term rental space, but it's not like we hadn't taken a course. You know, I hadn't even read a book about short term rental investing yet. I stayed in some Airbnbs but didn't know them too well. But we knew, and I think respected the opinions of the people that were telling us that this would work, that we felt comfortable and confident enough to take that risk. Risk. Now also, we weren't putting up our last $59,000 to make this work. So if it did go sideways, I wasn't going to get like my house repossessed or anything like that. So. But I think having the confidence to take that leap of faith is the biggest thing for me because once it worked, we've been full steam ahead ever since.

Well, appreciate it. That was a good deal. Deep dive. I think you got a lot of people's minds spinning right now on vacation rentals and they're thinking, I want, I want a bunch of those ones.

Yeah. I just, I need you guys to like, bleep out the market that I'm in. So. No one. No one, exactly.

Don't go there. Yeah. In fact, I think Joshua Tree is horrible. It's a terrible market. Don't do it. Don't come to Maui either. It's terrible, terrible. All right, moving on to the last segment of the show, it's time for our famous. For this is the part of the show where we ask the same four questions every week to every guest. So, Tony, number one favorite, either current or all time favorite real estate investing book.

Like, I got to go rich dad, Poor dad, because that's like the bible for everybody. I told you at the beginning of the show that my dad made me read that one. I was like 14. So, like, those concepts have been ingrained in me for a very long time. Now.

What is your favorite business book?

Can I give a couple? Because there's a few that I. That I really love actually. Just.

We'll allow it.

I just read Profit first earlier this year.

Oh, yeah, Michael Kalowitz.

Yeah, that was like a game changing book for me. We had been like reinvesting so much of our profits back into the business that we were like barely paying our. Like, we weren't even paying ourselves. So now we're, we're like finally structuring the business in a way that it actually, actually supports us as the owner. So Profit first is a sitting right here. There it is. That one's a huge one for me. The other one that I think is really big is the E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. Really making sure that you're being super clear on the seats that exist within your business, putting the right people into those seats, and then over time, filling them with people as you start to scale. So those two books, I think, work really, really well in tandem.

All right, what about some of your hobbies?

Hobbies? I'm super busy, so I don't have much time for hobbies these days. But my son's in right now, so I spend, I don't know, an ungodly amount of time driving him to training and practices and games and things like that. So really just kind of being there to support him and his goals is big for me. And then my wife and I like to travel as well. So we're actually heading off to Miami this Saturday. So we're gonna spend a few days out in Miami. We're now fully vaccinated, so we can hopefully like, high five and hook strangers again without being too worried about it.

Well, my last question of the day. What do you think separates successful real estate investors from those who give up, failure, fail, or just never get started?

I think first is having a really, really, really strong why behind you, because everybody that ventures off into the world of entrepreneurship is going to encounter some kind of adversity. And if you don't have an absolutely, extremely, compellingly strong why, you're going to give up. And I can share my why with you guys, right? When my dad was like around the same age in me, he was like in his early 30s. He had been working at this company for two decades, worked his way up from like a dock worker to the general manager. So he was the general manager of this big facility. Without notice, the company goes bankrupt, fires everybody. So my dad, after two decades of giving his heart and soul to this company, loses everything, right? We end up losing our house, right? We move from this big five bedroom house into this apartment. Just a big shift for everything. And what my dad always told me is that you never want to have your way of providing for your family, be totally dependent on someone else. And that stuck with me. And I always wanted to make sure that as my family grew, because I became a dad when I was 16, so I learned very early on about the pressures of having a family. So for me, it was always in the back of my mind to know that I didn't want to. To be in a position where if the company that I was working for said Tony we don't need you anymore. That I wasn't going to know how to feed my family. So for me, that's the why that drives me. I am terrified of not being able to provide for my family. I am terrified of not building generational wealth. Like I'm terrified of not being able to do that. And that's what drives me. So to answer the question, I think it's having a strong why to drive you.

Last question of the day. Where can people find out more about you?

Yeah, obviously the Real Estate Rookie podcast. We put out episodes every Wednesday and Saturday. We just launched a real estate rookie YouTube channel as well. Well, so a lot of the content's going up there. If you guys want to connect with me personally, I'm on Instagram @TonyJ. Robinson. Then my wife and I also have a YouTube channel called the Real Estate Robinson. So we give all the behind the scenes shenanigans of running our short term rental business. So you guys can check us out there again, the Real Estate Robinsons. But yeah, those are all the places to find me.

Well, appreciate it. This has been a phenomenal show. I think people are going to love this thing, get a lot of it. I'm going to send a lot of new investors when they're coming. I'm like, listen to this show with Tony. It's a great way to like go from rookie to pro. So you're killing it, man. Keep it up.

Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

Thank you very much, Tony. This is David Green for Brandon Month and Maui Turner signing off.

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