523: Meet Max Maxwell: Broke at 30, Millionaire at 33 | 'Takeover' Ep w Nasar

What's the name of this show again? This is the bigger pockets podcast show 5:23.

I literally go driving in my old neighborhood that I grew up in and I find a house on the same street I grew up on. And with my experience in the past of just knowing real estate, I knew who to find who the owner was. I didn't know how to find their number. And so using some people and some resources that I had, I ended up finding that person. And that was the phone call that changed my life.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com your home for real estate investing online.

My name is Nassa El Araby and today is a takeover that breaks us over. Isn't that right, David Green?

That's absolutely right. So you and I had a really good conversation on show 5 22, where we dug into exactly what skills you had to develop to leave your W2 and make your own full time real estate investing business. That's doing fantastic, by the way. And since I gotta go catch a plane and Brandon is still recovering from the beating I put on in Jiu jitsu, I'm going to turn the keys over to you for today's episode.

Oh, man, this is going to be exciting. I appreciate it. So today I'm going to sit down with my good friend Max Maxwell. I mean, this guy is a giver. You guys know him from YouTube social media. He just knocks it out to park every time you get him on the mic. This is his first time on Bigger Pockets. And speaking of planes, this man is a pilot. He has his own plane with his face on it. I recall when I was getting my BMW built and I had to pick it up in Spartanburg, South Carolina, because the one I wanted, they didn't have enough in the country. So therefore, when I picked it up, my friend Max said, hey, you want me to take you on the plane? Unfortunately, it was raining, so he couldn't take me on the plane to go pick it up from the factory. But I definitely appreciate the gesture. So this episode is going to be exciting.

All right, before I hand the razor over completely, here is a quick tip for you. Today's quick tip is simple. Check out Biggerpocket's YouTube channel. So this particular episode was shot in Max's studio and it looks really great. Great. You can check out all of the videos that we shoot here in the podcast@YouTube.com biggerpockets. That's YouTube.com biggerpockets and we have all kinds of other videos for you on that channel. Now I'm going to be making more content for BiggerPockets on their YouTube channel. We also take all these podcasts and we air them there. So, hey, I like to see the people that I'm listening to when they're talking, I just like to read facial expressions. I like to see what gets them juiced up and when they're kind of just phoning it in, giving you that information that they know they're supposed to say but they don't really believe in. So if you are like me, definitely, definitely go check out YouTube and watch instead of just listen.

Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of the smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways, and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords. Whether it's a single family rental, a Brrrr Builders risk policy, or midterm holiday guests, you get fast quotes, flexible coverage and protection for property damage, liability and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes@biggerpockets.com landlord insurance steadily landlord insurance designed for the moderate.

Investor in real estate. I used to juggle five different tools just to stay organized. One for leads, another for listings, and a pile of sticky notes in between. It was chaos back then. I really wish I had today's sponsor, pipedrive, the number one CRM tool for small to medium businesses and real estate agents. Everything's in one place, from notes on listings to key information on leads. So I never miss a deal. Real estate teams using pipedrive can handle four times more inbound leads. It's a powerful, simple CRM built by salespeople for salespeople. With pipedrive, you're not just managing your sales, you're supercharging them right now. If you use my link pipedrive.com biggerpockets you'll get a 30 day free trial. No credit card or payment needed.

What if I told you you could forget everything you know about investment property Loans. Because Host Financial is rewriting the rulebook, tossing out those pesky DTI restrictions. They focus on your property's income potential. No tax returns or personal income statements needed. Simple, efficient, and tailored for investors like you. Imagine a lender that sees the gold mine in your property, not just the numbers on your paycheck. That's the Host Financial difference, and they're approved in 47 different states. So your next big deal could be just around the corner. Ready to unlock your property's true potential? Visit hostfinancial.com don't let old school lending hold you back another day. That's HostFinancial.com all right, now let's get.

Into it with my man, Max Maxwell. All right, guys, thank you for tuning in to the Bigger Pockets podcast. My man David Green just left me the keys to the plane, so that's why I got these goggles on so that I could see when I'm in the air. Now, today I have a very special guest. The man was featured in Vogue magazine, GQ magazine. He's a sports agent. Most importantly, he's a real estate investor, serial entrepreneur. He's also a pilot with his face on his plane. And as somebody who's traveled with this guy, let me tell you how much of a giver he is. This guy. When we was in Ghana, in Africa city called Accra, one of the kids ran up to the car and they needed some money. He gave them 100 Ghana dollars. I think it's like 20American dollars, $25, whatever the case may be, the kid fell out and started doing snow angels. Now, if you know anything about Ghana, they haven't seen snow since 1957, since they got their independence. So I don't know where this kid was able to do a snow. How did he know what a snow angel was? He just did the snow angel, then just disappeared. But that's the type of guy he is. And he didn't even have to record it for social media because he's just natural giver like that man. So without further ado, Max Maxwell, how are you doing, man?

I appreciate you having me, man. I'm doing well. Don't say Vogue like I was featured as a model or something. I'm too fat for that.

First things first. Let me say this, man. It's always a pleasure. You know, it's always a treat when two players meet, you know, so I appreciate that, man. You know, it's always a treat, man. So this is going to be it. This is going to be a good one.

I like it. I'm here for it.

Okay, so you're like a social media sensation. All this probably happened with like the last four years.

Yeah.

Okay, but you were 30 and broke. You were actually 30 and living at your mom's house.

Yeah, I was 30 and had to move. I was 30 and a half and had to move back to my mother's house because I just had. I had nothing. I had my last failed business kind of just put me over the edge where I was paying rent on my credit card and it just got too exhaust. I just didn't have it. And so I had to take that humble pie and ask mom to move back home.

Okay, so if you guys listen, if you know anything about the great late philosopher Christopher Wallace, AKA Biggie Smalls, he tells you you can like cardinal sin. You can't be 30 and broke. You can't go that route. But that was actually his life in my neighborhood when we were kids, especially in high school, like, that was a joke. Man, you ain't gonna be no, you gonna be dirty and broke. Crowd just falls down and laugh. Everybody just laughs.

I mean, that's how it felt. That's why I was. I mean, even when it happened, it was like you tried to keep it a secret and you like. Man, I was going through a lot, like, even some, like, depression.

Absolutely.

Because you're like. You're supposed to have life figured out at 30. At least that's what you heard.

That's definitely what you think. I actually went into a depression at 30. Cause I thought by 30, when I graduated from college at 24, I said, by 30, I'm gonna have the house, the car and the kids and everything. And I didn't have none of that neither. I was in a one bedroom. So anyway, just got fired the year before. But Anyway, you were 30 and broke. But before we get to 30 and broke, take us back till you graduate from high school and go to the service. Cause a lot of people don't know you actually serve this country.

Yeah. So barely graduating high school, I should say I barely had a 2.0. I was an athlete in high school, but in our state, they had implemented this 2.0 rule. So if you didn't have a 2.0 at a certain point in time during the season, you could. No extracurricular activities. And so from my sophomore year on, I never really played a full season because I didn't have a 2.0. And so I barely graduated high school knowing that college was not an option. And so what's Next. You know, 911 had happened the year before and everything was going. I said, you know, I'm just going to go into the Air Force. So I took the ASVAB test and I passed. Or you know, it's not pass or fail, but I had a high enough score to go in and you know, I did that for a while. I traveled a lot. My first base was in Cheyenne, Wyoming. I did some time in Istanbul, Turkey. And like so just those things kind of like shaped me because I didn't get to go to traditional route that most people go, you know, go to college, community college. But I think it really, it molded me several things and one of them was integrity. And that's a big core value of the Air Force. So you know, I enjoyed it. I didn't want to do it again. Like in a sense I didn't want to sign up and do another four years. And so I had to get out because I was just feeling that entrepreneur spirit when I was in there.

Okay, so here it is. You graduated from high school, you had to have a 2.0 to play sports. You could barely maintain that. Fortunately, New Jersey didn't have that ring because I had a 1.8. I was terrible. I would have never played sports. You know, I was on the football team, rode the bench. But you know, it's not about me right now. So you graduate high school, you leave the army, what happens next after you leave the service? The Air Force, Is that where you became a pilot and you got your air license there?

No, heck no. No. So yeah, you gotta be an officer to be in, you know, officer training to be a pilot. And it's a very few selected people that actually get to fly planes in the Air Force. So no, I had nothing to do with Plains. And so when I came out I was trying to figure out what life was. Here I am almost 21 years old at this time and it's like my fresh start. And so, you know, I started a lawn care company with a friend. It was pretty successful but there was another business that failed and I did a couple other things and I decided to get my real estate license. And so I got my license in a time in North Carolina where you can go to pre licensing school and then broker school back to back and you can walk out of school and be a broker and so you can open up, you can become a Bic and open up your own office. Yeah, now they don't do that.

Yeah. So for those who don't, who don't understand that Language. He's basically saying at one point in the state that he could become a broker, which he can essentially have his own office, fresh out of school, no experience or anything, but. Okay, go ahead.

I wouldn't recommend that, but I did one year at Allen Tate, where you do the traditional real estate stuff. An agent, right? You're showing, riding people around, going out, trying to find house listings, and it just got tiring. Like, I was just. Every weekend you're driving somebody around, come to find out they ain't even qualified to buy a house. They just want to do some. It was probably Nas, if I think about it. It's probably NAS and his girlfriends riding around on the weekend. But, you know, it just wasn't fulfilling to me. And then so I left Allen Tate, and then I started my own company, Infinity Property Management Investment. And then I lucked up. My friend was a mortgage broker at that time, and I found a guy that had a large portfolio of rental properties, commercial, single family, multifamily. And he gave me the whole portfolio to manage. Keep in mind, I had no idea, but it's like the power of. Yes. I was literally sitting in the broker's office. He's got a friend in California. He says he needs to look for a new property management company because he didn't like the one he was with. He sent over the Excel sheet, and he was like, hey, don't you have a property management company? I was like, yeah, it was probably like two days old. I said, yeah, I can manage that. Sure, I do. 8%, 7%. And I think we settled at 7% because the portfolio was about 30 million. And I had no idea. So here I am, I'm having to read books at that time. You're going to Barnes and Nobles to get physical books to kind of see how do you do it? But I did it. I managed it fairly well. But at that point is where I started to learn the other side of real estate, other than just buying and selling. People's being a broker.

Okay, so what happens next after that? Do you do another business? Do you stay with that business?

Does 2008 happened?

Ooh, okay.

So for me, at that point in time, you know, I did some other things in between because the income. You're managing a lot of properties and you're gonna hire some people. So I was doing some other things in the meantime. And in 2008 happened. And before 2008 happened, this guy was selling his portfolio at a rapid speed. And prior to that, he would be buying portfolios. So he Would. He would hit me up and say, hey, Look, I have 100,000. Can you go find me this? And I want it to. And I would go out and find it, hire the crews, get it fixed. And I would make money on, you know, the little bit of rehab that was there. Not that I knew what I was doing. And then before 2008, he started to sell, and it's like he had one of those Magic 8 balls, you know, the ones you shake. And it's like, I think he had one of those. And he started selling. He sold probably 75% of a portfolio before it collapsed. And then for me being so young and not knowing really anything about real estate at that point, like, I knew nothing. And then I'm thinking, the world's falling apart when 2008, 2009 happened. So I leave, I go to California not knowing what I'm gonna do, and kind of, you know, just drove out there and stayed with a cousin for a while. I was doing so many different things, but when I got to California, I probably had two other failed businesses.

Now, what city in California?

Los Angeles. Hermosa Beach.

Yeah. La. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, now when you went to LA and you had to figure it out, did you get into like the adult entertainment industry? Did you?

That's in the Valley. I wasn't. I'm not like you. I wasn't. I can't get in there.

All right, all right. You want me to make sure? Okay. All right. So. All right, so California happens. All right. And take me from California to what happens next in California.

What do you do? So first of all, I drive to California in a Jeep.

That was from North Carolina.

Yeah, non stop. I stopped at a rest stop to take like a 45 minute because I was so determined to keep going. And so there was a repo order out of my Jeep and I figured they wouldn't find me in California.

Absolutely.

So I went to California. Right. So I went to California. Then I got a job in the marketing and marketing world. And, you know, I just did some things. And then I was kind of on the road for like two years, living back in California, but doing marketing on the road. And that collapsed. Like, literally, the company had to be sold to somebody.

Yeah.

And so then I decided what I'm gonna do now. And then I move up to Maine. From California to Maine. Keep in mind, I've never been to Maine before. Moved to Maine and I got into a position where. Here you are. As a hustler, I'm able to take over somebody's restaurant just with sweat equity. Ooh.

Okay.

Ran the restaurant well, has a nightclub on the weekends, made good money. The building goes up for auction.

Oh, man.

You know, and so it's just like these things are happening, but every time I'm having failure, I'm learning things. I'm learning payroll, I'm learning bookkeeping. Every failed business is, you know, I get this. A lesson from it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Your life sounds like it sucked pretty bad.

Yeah, it was sucking. It was sucking, but I was still going.

Kept going. You kept faith, man. You kept. You had the mustard seed of faith. You kept going. You know, most people would have given up, but you did.

Yeah.

And that's why, you know, you became the sensation Max Maxwell, man. So. All right, so from Maine, that's how you ended back in North Carolina.

Yeah. So from Maine. No, I actually bounced to Orlando, Florida, after that.

Okay. Orlando, Florida.

Yeah. So then I tried to get into. They had this yes on two campaign where they were trying to legalize, I think, medical marijuana in Florida.

Okay.

And I had this bright idea that, hey, there's going to be all of these shops opening. Who's going to do the education? Now, keep in mind, I know nothing about this field at all.

Yeah.

And so I start to study. I go to Colorado, I go get mentorship to kind of find. I said, I can be the teaching body of getting people certified to get to work in this industry. Then the bill didn't pass, so wasted all that time down there and resources. And then from there, I'm in Chicago. And then I get back into marketing. Now I'm in experiential marketing, where I. We're literally going from like, county fairs to this to that, like, and we're working with big brands to facilitate some of their stuff. And then I get this hair idea that I can solve a problem in this industry that I see. And then I moved back to North Carolina.

And that's when you moved back home?

No, when I moved home, I moved into an apartment because I had some money.

Okay.

And from there I ran that company called faspa, which went belly up, ran out of money. And that's when I really, really was down. Because at this point, from 21 to 30, you're failing, you're failing, you're failing. And then at what point. And then you hit that magic number of 30, and you're like, what I gotta do now? I just gotta go get a job, go work at the post office. Go do something. Do something where I can use my federal background to try to get a job. And it's just demoralizing when you're, like, at 30 and you ain't figured it out yet.

Okay, so you're 30, you're at your mom's house. Mom let you get in. Now tell me about this time.

Like, you gotta remember I left home at 17.

Yeah.

I'm back home at 30.

Yeah.

Now when I get home, my mom probably think I'm still 17.

Yeah.

I've been gone for X amount of years. So it was. It was comfortable, like she was welcoming, but as a man, it felt uncomfortable.

Absolutely, Absolutely. Absolutely. Now tell me about you finding out the thing that got you out of your mom house. And what was that thing?

Yeah. So at this point, I go back to my memory and I'm like, the only thing I had success in that was kind of sustainable was real estate. So I'm like, let me see if I can get back into real estate. And I pondered getting my license again to get back as, like, an agent. And then I run across a friend that his dad was always successful and we never knew why. And his dad mentioned all these things and these apartments and buildings he had, and I was just intrigued. And here I am sparking my real estate interest again. And he mentioned, like, creative financing and wholesaling. And I just put that word wholesaling in my phone and I went home and I just went deep. I went into every YouTube video, every podcast you could find, and here you are. This is 2015, 16 now. So there's not that much content out about, you know, it's only been a recent explosion about how to get into real estate. Now. There's always these infomercial guys and all that stuff that we all probably seen that just thought was crazy.

Correct.

So then I started running across, you know, the Sean Terrys and these other guys, and so. And you eventually. No, we'll talk about that.

Okay.

Yeah. So I run across. I run across, you know, some guys, and I start to start. Now I'm literally in my room. Like, I'm in prison. I'm doing 23 in one 23 hours in my room. I'm only coming out to eat because my mom's forcing me. And I'm literally getting consumed with this. And at this point, I have a 2003 Volkswagen Jetta, had a bad starter. I didn't have no money. And so I go to the gas station not too far down the house, and, you know, I've had my broke spell. So I know how to overdraft correctly. That's an art, you know, when you overdraft your bank account. So I overdraft. I put. When you go to a gas pump, it authorizes for a dollar. Well, I had probably $4. And I fill that tank up, you know, so at that point, it's 34, like $40 to fill up your tank or whatever it was, and then the $35 fee. So that's about an $80 gas tank right there on a Volkswagen jet.

Yeah, man.

So this is all I got.

That's all you got.

I don't want to ask my mom for money. She's working hard herself, and I'm like, you know what? I got to go. I got to make this work. And so I literally go driving in my old neighborhood that I grew up in.

Okay.

And I find a house on the same street I grew up on.

Okay.

And with my experience in the past of just knowing real estate, I knew who to find, who the owner was. I didn't know how to find their number. And so using some people and some resources that I had, I ended up finding that person. And that was the phone call that changed my life.

Okay, so essentially, you did a technique, what is called driving for dollars.

Yeah.

You went driving for dollars. You found somebody that was interested.

I found a house. I didn't even find a person. I found a house that had tall grass, unkept bushes on a corner lot on a neighborhood that was pretty decent. And so it stuck out to me. But if I didn't watch these videos the weeks prior, I wouldn't known that was an opportunity. You know, driving past that any other time would have been an eyesore. It would have been something I would ignore. So when I drove past it this time, all I seen was dollar signs falling off the roof. And so I knew that, okay, this is what they've been talking about in these podcasts. This is what they've been talking about in these videos. I need to take action. And so all day I'm trying to figure out, how do I get a hold of this person? And I got a hold of that person.

Okay, so fast forward today when we are looking for phone numbers for these type of properties. That's called skip tracing.

Correct.

So skip tracing probably wasn't the word being used back then.

Well, for me, it was, and I'm going to tell you why. So here goes. Another one of my failed businesses. I was still a licensed bail bondsman.

Okay?

And the word skip tracing comes from when a person misses court, they are a skip. When a person gets arrested, they Get a bond, they get bailed out by bondsmen. The bondsman is responsible for them showing back up to court. When they don't go to court, it's called a skip. They skip court. And so you got to trace the skip. And so using some friends in the industry, I was able to get the information. I wasn't an active, you know, bounty hunter at that time. And so with that I started to use that technology. And even to this day, I mean, I created a company in 2018 called REI Skip, where that is where it was the basis of me really understanding how to get ahold of people. Because the number one thing you gotta do in this business is identify an opportunity and talk to people.

Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so tell me about what happens with the rest of this house. You find the house, you call them up, you talk like, what's next?

She sounds kind of hesitant, but says she's actually interested in selling. She says she's going to call me back in a few days after I tell her, hey, I'm interested, I can buy somewhere around this price. And she calls me back in two hours.

Wow.

And says, your price of 30, how about 35? Or something like that? I can't remember the exact numbers. And at this point I'm like, okay. And so I do that. I remember driving towards Charlotte to Salisbury, meeting her at the Waffle House. I created this contract by just piecing other contracts. I see online misspellings. I'm dyslexic of the way, so spelling is not my strong suit. A one page contract. I run the Waffle House, of all places, and I get the contract signed. And I'm so excited. I go back home, I grab my mom's lawnmower, and I'm like, I need to start cutting this grass because I got to take a picture of this thing. And so from there it just turned into, I took a picture. I had no buyers, obviously none at all. I posted it on a Facebook marketplace and within hours people were driving by and I get a phone call from a lady that says her and her husband just finished the flip and they're interested, but he's out of town. And so they came the following weekend. They loved it. We signed the contract and here I am, I'm like, wow, I'm holding two pieces of paper. That's not money. But it's like this thing is now worth $14,000. And I didn't put a dollar down. And if you ever have negative money in your bank account, first of all, I never had a $14,000 check in my entire life up to that point.

Right.

At one time. And so here I am, I'm looking, I potentially can make $14,000. And my next thing is I got to find an attorney.

Okay, so you find the. You find the attorney.

Yep. My friend happened to be an attorney that. But he was a criminal attorney, referred me to a friend and in a couple of weeks we closed the deal. And it was just like I'm sitting here holding a $14,000 check. Now, keep in mind, I wrote an LLC name on there. I didn't even have an LLC yet. Wow. So now I got to borrow money to create the LLC to then go open up a bank account, then to deposit this check in there where they put a 14 day. Hold on.

And so that's the story of my first deal. And I never looked back since.

Yeah, it's just been taken off since. How long did it take you from being at your mom's house and getting to work to closing that first deal?

When I learned about wholesaling, it took me three weeks to close your first deal.

Three weeks?

Well, it took me three weeks to get my first contract. Then it took me so about five weeks to get my first deal locked up.

Wow.

And closed.

You just excelled. It took me eight months. And when I tried to explain to people that everybody's journey is different, your story's gonna be different from mine, my story's gonna different for yours. You shouldn't give up if it doesn't happen in the first five weeks. Maybe if it doesn't happen in the first eight months, you should just continue doing it until you get it done. Because sometimes it's not about being smart. It's about who's willing to stand the test of time.

You gotta work hard.

You gotta work hard though. You definitely gotta work hard. It's not gonna come easy. So. And this business is actually life changing. Okay, so you do your first deal. Now fast forward. How does your business look today?

So we have a total of about 17 employees on the real estate side. Five of them are overseas, they work remote, and the rest are in my office. I have an 8,000 square foot office located where? In the high rise building in Winston Salem, North Carolina.

Yeah, Winston Salem. Home of Chris Paul.

I would say it's the home of Max Maxwell.

We'll say the home is Max Maxwell.

But Chris Paul, my friend. So I'll co share it.

Yeah, Chris Paul and Max Maxwell. One of them. All right, so. And the 8,000 square foot office. Now, how are you marketing for These.

Deals, I mean, so we use all types of marketing. So out of necessity, and I think I should probably back up because out of being so excited about my first deal, I start to document my journey on YouTube.

Correct.

And over the time and time I start to get this massive following of people who are like, oh my God, this is crazy. And so I'm having problems in my business and with a solution based oriented as I'm starting to create products to fix my. Well, I'm starting to create solutions that then turn into products. So I create a company called REI Rail with some friends where we do text messaging, you know, skip tracing, RVMs and the whole CRM. We do this in a way where we did it internally for ourself and it works. So we spent so much money building this product for ourselves that we started to share it with other people. And so that's what we use mainly for marketing. But when it comes to marketing, we're texting, we're cold calling, we're sending letters. So I have, I break marketing down into two parts and it's going to be inbound and outbound. And so outbound is an effort that you use to get to be able to reach people. So that's cold calling, texting. RVM is kind of falling off the map because of TCPA compliancy. But those are called outbound. What I call inbound is like your PPC ads, which is your Google pay per click is what it means. Your Facebook post that you share and bandit signs, billboards. We have a mobile billboard truck that runs around the city. And so those are inbound campaigns. So we do a facet of all types of marketing.

Okay, but. And you use a service called Re irl.

Yeah. And so that's our main hub.

That's our main hub.

That's where all of our marketing lives.

Okay.

And so I use a system called the conveyor belt and I created it probably two and a half years ago, probably three years. Now we start to market to the people. So what you have to understand about marketing is that people want to be spoken to on the platform that they want to be spoken to. Right. So if you call me from an unknown number, the likely chances of me answering the phone is very slim. Unless I'm waiting on somebody unknown to call me.

Yes.

If you send me mail, I'm probably not going to check my mailbox. My mailbox is probably stuff full right now. If you text me, there is an I may I, you know, that's where you're going to probably going to get me. And so you have to be able to do these things to meet people where they are. And that's in any business, that's just in business in general. And so when you're dealing with people who have problems that we've identified, whether they just inherited a property, it's behind on taxes. There's a landlord with 13 properties and he's 50% of his portfolio is not performing. So when you identify these people, you need to be able to market to them in this in a way. So you're not going to market to a 30 year old just inherited to grandma's house that lives in Denver, the same way you market to a 65 year old man that has seven properties. And so you need to be able to do what I call a conveyor belt. And I start with the cheapest method of contacting people, which is usually through text. And then if that doesn't work, then I move through like a cold call and then mail and then it just moves down the line. And these people get dropped in their prospective buckets whether they get contacted or not. And so the lead conveyor belt is what I call it. But we run all that through rerl.

Okay, that sounds good, man. And for those who are listening and watching, who never done a deal. So let me break down what he's saying. So if you going to Macy's or if you're going to the Ralph Lauren polo store. Right, And I'm going to use the Ralph Lauren polo store for this example. So they do a 50% off sale every year before Black Friday.

You would know that.

I wouldn't know that because I'm extremely cheap. All right, so the day before, it's like the day before Thanksgiving, they do 50% off.

Right.

And how do they get that in front of people? Well, they mail them a postcard letting them know, hey, on this day, everything in the store 50%. The day of I get a text message, I ignore the mail, but when I get the text message, oh, 50%, let me stop what I'm doing and get this stuff on sale so I can get this, you know, so it can be really cheap, but I look expensive. You know what I'm talking about?

So he's famous for that.

Yes, that's what I do. So anyway, the mail piece didn't work for me, but the text message did for someone else. The mail piece may have worked and the text message did.

She's the lady that shows up to the store with the mail piece folded in half with the coupon clipped out, she gets to the register and she pulls that out. There you go. That's the person you mail.

That's the person you mail. So what he does to get deals, he hits people different ways to see what they would react to. And that's extremely important that you guys do that as well. And adapt that.

If you own a short term rental, here's something worth knowing. Not all landlord policies are built for your type of property. And with holiday bookings, chilly weather and higher guest turnover, having the right coverage is more important than ever. Steadily Steadily offers insurance designed specifically for short term rentals, covering property damage, liability, lost rental income and even unexpected issues like bed bugs. Steadily works exclusively with real estate investors so they understand the details that make short term rentals unique and they build coverage to match it. A quick review of your rates and coverage every year can help you protect your property and your cash flow. Get a quote in minutes@biggerpockets.com landlord insurance steadily rental Property Insurance for the modern.

Investor I can't tell you how many deals I lost just by being a day late on follow up. One missed message and the buyer was gone. Back then, I really wish I had today's sponsor, pipedrive, the number one CRM tool for small to medium businesses and real estate agents. Real estate teams using pipedrive can handle four times more inbound leads. It keeps everything in one place, connects you to my email and calendar, automates reminders, and ensures every lead is moving forward. Join the over 100,000 companies and real estate agents using Pipedrive right now. If you use my link pipedrive.com biggerpockets you'll get a 30 day free trial. No credit card or payment needed.

Tired of traditional lenders holding you back? Host Financial is here to change the game. They've ditched the DTI restrictions and they zero in on what really matters your property's income potential. So no more chasing papers for tax returns or personal income statements. Think about it. A lender that values your property's worth over your paycheck? That's the Host Financial difference. Approved in 47 states. They are ready to help you make your next big move. Curious if you qualify? Just head over to HostFinancial.com and find out. Stop letting outdated lending practices hold you back. That's HostFinancial.com where your property's potential meets unlimited financing. It's 3am on the 6th and you're.

Wondering if you should text your tenant about rent. Here's a better idea.

Don't with avail rent collection Runs on autopilot.

Automatic reminders go out. Payments land directly in your account.

Late fees trigger when needed.

Tenants can enable auto pay and with fast pay, you can get paid as.

Soon as the next day.

Sign up for free at Avail Co BiggerPockets. That's a V A I L Co BiggerPockets.

Avail handles rent collection.

So you can actually get some sleep.

So obviously you became a successful real estate investor. You were in South Africa getting your plane built.

Yeah.

Okay, so you were in South Africa, you're getting your plane built. And rumor has it that they warned you, like, hey, look, you can't wear your Rolexes there. And by the way, guys, he has like eight Rolexes.

But they're investments, though, okay?

He has eight Rolexes. Yeah, he justifies. That's what rich people do. They're. They're investments. So anyway, he has eight Rolexes, but he only has two hands. So what he does, he puts two in his ankle. But we're not gonna go there. But when he was in South Africa, they said, hey, it was a string of robberies. And, you know, people are getting things taken from them.

They had a Rolex gang, a Rolex.

Gang that take Rolex. So what does Max Maxwell does? He wears his Rolex. No security. And that's who Max Maxwell is. He just does what he wants to do. So obviously, you stay over there, you get your plane built. Tell me about that experience of you getting your plane built. I've seen it on social media.

So in 2015, I started my journey to become a pilot. And as you know, my life got flipped upside down. And so I didn't have the money. And then I picked back up in 2018. So I got my license in 2019. And so I knew I wanted to buy a plane. I didn't want to buy a legacy plane. And then I just, you know, I've been doing well, and so I went out and I bought a plane. It was built in South Africa. Me and my team, about five of us, we traveled to South Africa for about a month in a part of the journey, and they put the plane in a bigger plane. They, like, broke it down and then brought it back to America. And so I've been flying that plane for about a year now. And I've got another plane that we've ordered. It's a bigger plane, and that holds six people, but it takes about two years for this plane to get there, about 18 months.

Okay, so let's talk about the obvious. You're African American, right?

Jamaican descent? Yeah.

Jamaican descent, first generation American, Correct.

Both my parents are Jamaican. Yeah.

What inspired you to get into, you know, flying planes, like with me? Right. So when I wake up, like I woke up today, I said, I'm gonna get fly, and I put this dope outfit on. But when you, you like, yo, I'm a fly. Like, you really got a plane.

Yeah. So, you know, I've always been the explorer type person. I've always done the things you're not supposed to do. So I was working with Lt. Col. John Klatt, who flies a stunt plane for the Air National Guard. And he took me up one day and I just fell in love with it. And I asked him, why don't I have my license? He says, I don't know, why don't you? He says, go home and go get it done. And so I went home and I started to get my license done. And then from there I just, I fell in love with it. And for me, you know, flying a plane is like this peaceful journey. It's like this thing you can do. And you can fly as high or as low, not as low as you want to, but it's like you're just up there and it's. A lot of people just don't. They don't think it's possible. It's a very affordable hobby. You can get your license for probably eight grand over the course of, however long it takes you. You can take six months, a year, whatever you want to do. And my first, first plan I bought was only $27,000. And so it was a Cessna 172. And you can finance it over 15 years. I've never financed anything, but you can finance it over 15 years. But my next plane, I wanted to be nice, so I got a real, real nice, smart plane. And that's what we had built in South Africa. And it was fun. It was an eye open experience to experience South Africa that way. And it's definitely on one of my top places to visit as far as certain places in South Africa, you know.

The adventures of Max Maxwell. So you have a plane now you're also a sports agent and that's why you got featured in Vogue and gq. You have a, and correct me if I'm wrong, bull riders, or cowboys is what they call them.

Yeah, they're cowboys.

Okay.

They're professional bull riders.

Professional bull riders. And they ride for you?

Yeah, well, I'm their agent.

Well, you're the agent.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, they, so they, they ride on CBS Sports, typically on Sundays and weekends. It's a cool sport. You know something, you know, I own a ranch, I have some horses and so I, I'm into western sports. Yeah, I wear more than Nikes. I do have cowboy boots and stuff like that. A lot of. But you know, it's just something different like real estate. And I think this is where it kind of goes. Like real estate has afforded me the opportunity to do kind of whatever I want.

And that's where I was going with this. I was going with, you can start as an investor and you can go wherever you want to go. You know, for me, since I was 19 years old, was my dream to become a full time real estate investor. That was my dream. That's all I wanted to do. So I'm kind of like, I'm living my dream. But for him it was, hey, this is going to solve my problem I have now and take me to where I want to go. And there's no right or wrong way as long as you're happy and you're doing the things that you want to do. And that's one thing I know about you personally. You do what you want to do.

Yeah. You know, Nas, what's crazy about real estate is that you truly can get in this real estate investing arena with having nothing but a good brain. That's it. I mean, because even though most people look at wholesaling is not the most glamorous way of entering real estate, I personally think it's where everybody should enter the real estate game, no matter how much money you have. And the reason why I say that is because the number one thing about real estate across all aspects of investing, from single family to high rise buildings, is that you got to learn how to identify a deal. Right. You can't build a high rise building on a piece of dirt that costs too much.

Correct.

You can't buy a single family property that does not cash flow. And so as a wholesaler, you fine tune on how to find properties and identify deals. And one thing that I tell people all the time, when they say I don't have no money, I want to start and say that's great. And I said, listen, a good deal never searches for money. Money searches for good deals. And so if that's true across all real estate investing, you don't need money to get in, you need. The key part to real estate investing is figuring out how to identify a good deal. And if you can find those, you can start like I started five years ago, wholesaling, you know, I own a decent amount of rental properties, thanks to you. And so I was wholesaling my life away.

Yes.

And I visited Nas in Charlotte one day, and he's taken me to. Was it a triplex?

Triplex.

He took me to a triplex. He was like, yeah, he was kicking the tenant out and remodeling before the next tenant goes into place. And I was like, you own this? He's like, yeah, I own this one. And when I leave here, I gotta go to this other one. And then I got. My new build is about to be done. And so that inspired me. That was a few years ago.

Yes.

And I went home and I said, you know what? I had a goal, and anybody that starts out in wholesaling, you should have a goal. And I think that's where, if I had to start over, I would do it again, because you're going to get a lot of money. But my goal was, for every three wholesale deals, I'm going to buy a rental property. And it started out one in seven. Every seven wholesale deals, I'm going to buy a property. Now I do one in one. Right. And so the thing is, is that. And here's my thing. I know there's so many different strategies when it comes to buying real estate. I don't have a single loan on any property that I own. And people say, well, you can grow so much faster if you use leverage. And I agree, that is correct. But owning a property out free and clear and receiving every single penny of that cash flow is something amazing. And so when the time is right, if we ever do have like a 2008 or 2009 again, I can go to some trusted lenders and say, look at my free and clear portfolio. Lend me some money. Give me 50% of my value of my portfolio, and I'm going to go out there because I learned how to identify a deal five years ago, I'm going to go out there and scrape up so much property, it's not going to make any sense. And so I am at the point now where I've created a brand. We did well with wholesaling, we're doing well with all our real estate verticals that I'm just going to deploy as much cash as I possibly can. My idea is to be as broke as possible throughout the year. There's no way that I can. Like, for example, I bought that house for 15 grand. I don't know if you've seen it on Instagram. I bought it for $15,000. I'm doing 50 grand in work, and it's going to be worth close to $200,000. And if you do that with all cash. And so that's. That's called identifying a deal. I'm not going to wholesale that. Now, before you and I started hanging out a lot, I would have wholesale that deal. I would have took a $40,000, $50,000 wholesale, right? No. Now I keep those, I fix them up and I rent them out.

All right, kids, most important lesson is Nas inspired him. So Nas can do the same for you. You just gotta listen to me, you know? But yeah, back to what he was saying, you know, he knows how to identify a deal. He made a goal for himself. No matter what level you at, you want to make a goal for yourself. You want to be serious about it. You just don't want to make the goal hang it up and then, you know, go watch tv. You know, you don't want to do that. You have to turn off TV and turn on your life, which is extremely important. That's a bar.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. You just have to do those things and you take it serious, man. If you take this business serious and you take care of business, business will take care of you. So just keep that in mind, man. Here it is. You know, we're shooting a YouTube video on his channel at one of my triplex. I inspired him and he just exploded because he made a goal for himself and just went after it. But you can too. Which is the most important message I want you to get out of this. So you have these properties. You built out this large real estate portfolio. Like, what does the future look like for Max Maxwell?

So recently I bought a business that had some, you know, it was a butcher shop. And so our first thing was to go in there and renovate the building and put back a butcher shop in there. And now we're tearing down the whole thing and we're building three commercial units on that building. No loans. And then, you know, you and I been learning development over the last almost two years now.

Yes.

And so one of the projects I'm working on in my hometown is a low income housing apartment complex. And so I'm working with the city to get that under control. And I'm just learning, you know, one thing I feel like a lot of investors do is they stay in their comfort space. And so, you know, it's one thing too, that when you're at level 10, right? So let's just say I reach level 10 at wholesaling, you know, it's uncomfortable to Jump into another arena in real estate and be at level one. But I took that as a challenge. And so going from level 10, then to level one and something else, I enjoy that. And that's kind of why you and I are in that mastermind, learning about development. And so that's our next thing. We want to put together cities. We want to put together a whole downtown and be a part of the master plan of a city. So that's what for me and the future of real estate is.

I like that, man. I definitely like that. And me and him, we were in Ghana, we wanted to do some affordable housing in the city of Accra in Ghana. You know, we were talking with some people. We're waiting for some opportunities to open up to, you know, may potentially do some affordable housing over there. And Ghana, Africa has a whole interesting situation like this. No credit system. So the cars they own are cash, houses they own are cash.

Talk about rentals.

Yes. And the rentals, when you sign a lease, a 12 month lease, you have to pay 12 months up front, 24 month lease, 24 months up front.

So you would love that as a landlord, right?

You love that as a landlord. But you know, let's just say America's a great place to live. We have it a lot easier than some people may think here. But yeah, so interesting situation. And you know, Max and I, we've been to, let's say we hit. We did Winston together, we did Charlotte together, we did Atlanta together, we did Houston, we did Ghana. And for the people watching, I just. We need some help. Where should Max and Nas go next? Or should Max and nas go to BPCON 22? You know, let us know. Comment below. I think I like that. Yeah. BPCON 22, man. Max, Nas, bro. Yeah.

Where's it gonna be at in 2022?

Oh, we don't. They don't know yet.

Okay.

But yeah. Comment below. Where should we go next? And now is time for the Famous four. Now this is the part of the interview I'm going to ask you some questions.

Okay.

What is your favorite real estate book?

So that's a good question. So I only really read books to solve a problem and I haven't really had crazy problems in real estate, so I couldn't really identify, like a real estate book that was just changing my life. But here's what I would say. A book that did make me start thinking more about real estate was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. That was the first book I read cover to cover. Now everybody says that, but for me that was really? What changed my life.

Okay. Yeah, me too.

Yeah.

What's your favorite business book?

My favorite business book. My favorite business book has to be probably not really a business book, but like the 48 laws of power, the 50th law of power, you know, those type of books that kind of give you more strategy versus actual start this business, do this and do that. It's. For me it's more about strategy because you're going to learn a lot of other things just actually doing.

So question number three. Is there a habit you are currently working on?

Yeah. Working out more. Yeah, I feel like I've. I feel like in business I think you, you kind of have to sacrifice something in order to get what you want. It requires a lot of brain energy, it requires a lot of physical energy. And so I personally don't believe in a work life balance. I believe there's a crazy sacrifice you put up front and it really just depends on where you want to be success wise. And so I put that up front and I kind of let my health decline a little bit as far as like, you know, I'm heavier than I've ever been and you know, I could easily slim down. But now it's like, you know, my new house is being done, things are changing my life and I'm like, I gotta get this part together.

Absolutely. And you just got courtside tickets for the Charlotte horse.

Yeah, so I don't want to be on TV and you know, just be all round and everything.

Yeah, absolutely. But the way they gonna feed you down there, I'm telling you, but you know, you know, I'm sitting.

That'd be my cheat game, cheat day.

So he's in the, you know, he's sitting courtside and I'm sitting in the stands with the fans, you know, with the Porsche, you know, I'm in the fans in the stands but anyway, I go upstairs to special restaurant and you know, they feed us and all that. But with his is his. The food and parking is actually included in his ticket. So. But yeah, it better be. It definitely better be. Last question, bro. What separates the people who succeeded, they fail or they just give up?

Obsession.

Explain.

If you're not obsessed with something, you're going to walk away from it. And so you have to get this. It's almost, I think it's. If you look at most successful people, no matter what it is, and I'm talking about like the top tier success, they have this level of obsession with them, with the thing that they're trying to conquer. Or reach or whatever it is. And there's no level of giving up. There's that discipline and there's that obsession. And so if you're not going to be obsessed with it, you might as well leave it alone because the times get tough. And I don't believe in everybody should be an entrepreneur. Right. A cool side hustle is good.

Absolutely.

And you have to be able to recharge your own battery as an entrepreneur or business person because you can't rely on outside external sources to charge your battery.

Okay. And last, how can people follow you? Like, how can people stay in touch with what's going on with Max Maxwell? Like, how do they do that?

Well, it'd be real cool. We just redid our website so it's therealmaxwell.com youm can also find me on all social media handles as therealmaxwell. Also on YouTube, I got like 200 plus thousand subscribers. I'd be loving if you guys go just give me a subscribe. Cost you nothing. And you know we're gonna be putting out a lot more content. I got a brand new studio coming out and just, you know, just a bunch of things I'd love for you guys to follow me. Just all social media platforms, wherever you like to enjoy and watch content. I got a place there. So come, come join me there.

I love it, I love it, I love it. All right, so guys, listen, before I officially let you guys go, you know I was your babysitter. I know maybe I'm the babysitter from hell, but I hope some of you guys enjoyed it. Make sure you like comment subscribe to the biggerpockets channel. Make sure you get that biggerpockets pro membership. That's what I have. It's definitely helpful. And thank you to the good people at biggerpockets for allowing the Carolina boys to just come on the podcast and do a takeover. The breaks over for one episode. So we really appreciate that. Joshua Thorkin, the founder. Thanks. David Green and Brandon Turner, really appreciate you guys as well. Much more success and I'm your host. Well, guest host will probably fire me after this. I can't keep no job, y'.

All.

So I am your host, Nasser AKA the real estate guru. I'm not a guru. I'm a guru. I actually do this business and you can find me on Instagram realestateduru. That's D O R U. Cause I do YouTube. Same thing. Real estate duru. Text me let me know how I did. 704285.

Now we're signing off. Peace.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying REAL ESTATE for investors large and small if you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com your home for real estate investing Online.

Most.

Investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of the smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways, and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily they focus exclusively on landlords. Whether it's a single family rental, a BRRR Builders risk policy or midterm holiday guests, you get fast quotes, flexible coverage, and protection for property damage, liability and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes@biggerpockets.com landlordinsurance steadily landlord insurance designed for the modern investor.