888: 25 Properties at 27 Years Old by Building His Own Rentals w/Donovan Adesoro

What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. The biggest, the best, and the baddest real estate podcast in the world. I am your host, David Green, and I'm here with my skilled, talented, handsome, buff, and brilliant co host, Rob Abasolo.

Thank you. I appreciate that. That's what I needed on a Wednesday. My friend. How are you?

I'm good. Did I leave anything out? I suppose I could have said ripped, artistic, wonderful lover.

Okay, two out of three. Is that bad? Listen, for everyone at home, we have a pretty incredible story for you today. We're here with Donovan Adacero. And Donovan started investing in duplexes right out of college in the Houston market, my backyard. He has grown quite a portfolio in his short time as an investor and has started building duplexes himself.

So if you've ever been frustrated by the lack of inventory, wanted to get deeper into real estate, but traditional paths don't seem to be yielding much fruit. Today's show is for you. You, you're going to hear about how Donovan selected a product that was needed in his market, saw where the demand was, and move forward, mitigating risk on how he did it. What an awesome story and incredible young man. Let's bring him in. Donovan, you started investing in duplexes right after college. Not something that everybody does. What year was this and why did you choose duplexes specifically?

Yeah, so in 2020, after I bought that first duplex, I realized there's just not too many in Houston given how vast the land is. So duplexes was like a small nich market, and I felt like it could be a little bit more competitive there than compete with the major single single family home builders.

And so what year was it when you're graduating college?

2019.

All right, so 2019, you get out of college, you're stepping into the. The whole Covid matrix, and you decide, I'm going to buy duplexes. Give me a better understanding of what you were looking at when you surveyed this vast array of land that you describe of and why duplexes stood out to you. What caused the shining light of brilliance to shine upon the duplexes?

Yeah, so, you know, as after college, I was listening to biggerpocket's podcast on the way to and from my engineering job. A big thing was having multiple exit strategies. And when I was looking at the numbers on a single family home, they just wouldn't pencil as a rental if worst case scenario, we had to keep them. So the downside of the duplex was like, hey, if we can't sell it, it's okay, we can refi and make 8, 10% cash on cash. So having those two exit strategies was really what drew me towards it.

Okay, so you were not purely cash flow buy and hold investor. You were actually looking to buy properties, improve them, and sell them, I'm assuming. And then you thought, hey, if I can't sell it, at least it'll cash flow, I could hold it.

Exactly, yeah. I wanted to have both options available.

All right, and were these new properties that you were looking at or were these existing inventory?

These are all new that I was looking at. So I bought. The one I moved into was brand new construction house hack. And it was because I, you know, can barely change a light bulb. So it needed to be hopefully maintenance free for a couple of years.

Perfect. And so how much did you pay for this deal?

This one was.

Was.

275. Yeah, right. At 275.

Whoa. Did you say where you're buying these at?

Houston, Texas.

Yeah, Houston, Texas. Rob, you didn't tell me that you could buy duplexes for $275,000 out there. Have y' all been keeping secrets?

Well, back in 2019, maybe, but yeah.

Has.

Have those numbers changed pretty substantially since then, Donovan? Or is it still kind of in line with that?

Absolutely, yeah. That same duplex is like 430 now, give or take.

Okay, so you spent about $290,000 on your first duplex. Walk us through some of those numbers. What did you put down? Give us the whole that for sure.

The duplex put down 0%, technically. And the way I did that was there was a mortgage through at the time. It was Cadence bank, but yeah, they had a 0% down program for a 1 to 2 unit. So put brought like $3,000 to closing just for closing cost. The projected rents were about 13.50 per side. And the mortgage payment with, you know, taxes and insurance was like 1886. So it wasn't like a perfect house act, but because it was new construction, I felt a little bit more comfortable, like being a little bit more thin on the cash flow.

Folks, take note of how Donovan said they were about 1886, which is funny that you said about with the number that specifically accurate. That is not a coincidence as to how Donovan went on to be successful with his story that we are going to be getting into. I thought that was hilarious. They were about $1886.37 a month, give or take 2 cents on either side. So you got this property which I mean, most people listening to this would be salivating it just the thought of these numbers. Maybe I should ask, were they in good neighborhoods like this Just seems a little too good to be true, even in 2019.

Yeah, you know, you probably have to change your definition of good, but I thought it was reasonable. So the location was good. Like it was like 15 minutes south of downtown. It was close to the medical center. It was still in like an early gentrifying area, but because I was living by myself, I was willing to kind of suck it up, to be honest with you.

There you go. So, Realtor Speak up and coming neighborhood. All right. You mentioned a program that you used to buy the house. Can you tell us more about that?

Yeah, it was called, I think it was called the Affordable Home Loan or the Freedom Home Advantage Loan. The purpose of it was 0% down, up to two units, as long as you bought in a LMI tract or a low to moderate income tract. And so that was another one of the reasons why I had to buy in maybe an up and coming area because I really wanted that 0% down.

Smart. And how did you find the lender that had that loan program?

Yeah, so I actually was about to go under contract on another deal on the listing they were pitching. Hey, buy this duplex with 0% down. And so I found it through a previous listing and then just took that same lender to the this new construction duplex.

Makes sense. So you put 0% down on your first deal. Obviously that's more so because you're actually living in it. And yeah, it's available to that first time home buyer is my guess. But how did you scale your business after the first deal? Because I imagine you started to probably be in need of capital to start buying more properties, right?

Exactly. Yeah. And I didn't have any Capital. That $3,000 I brought to closing was like 60% of my liquid net worth. So, you know, it was all, all tied up in that. And so I was able to raise money from investors to go on to build new construction because I didn't have any capital myself at the time.

Bro, did you just calculate 60% of $3,000 in your head while doing this podcast?

I like 5,000 liquid. And so I brought 3,000 to closing. I think that's 60%.

Okay. It's a round number. That is 60%. I just still think this is hilarious that you pay attention to this much detail. I don't know why we say the devil is in the details, because the success is in the details. You don't think about success when you think about the devil, but this is Great. All right. Today's guest, Donovan got started with $3,000 and a little bit of other people's money. But how did he scale from there? We'll hear about that and how he continue to find funding and the smart way that he structured his deals right after this break.

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Welcome back. We're here with Donovan Adacero, who said no housing inventory, no problem, and literally started building his own duplexes.

All right, so now how did this first deal worked? But you had no money, we got no food, we got no booze, our pets, heads are falling off, and you're still able to pull this thing off by pulling all the strings. How did you scale after that without having cash?

Yeah, so it was a combination of just leveraging social media, to be honest with you. So I leveraged social media on the investor front to find partners who would, who could bring the capital. And I also leveraged it on the front to connect with wholesalers and realtors to send me their off market land deals because I still was working my full time job at this point. So I didn't have time to. I didn't have time or money to like spend on marketing. So that's why I leverage social media in those two ways.

All right, so a lot of people come on the show and they say, hey, I use social media. And I think conceptually we understand that the power of social media can actually help you get those lenders or those partners or private money partners. Can you just give us like a tangible example of something you did that actually resulted in some level of result?

Absolutely. One of the first investors I got, I think he was my second investor. I was in the real estate rookie Facebook group and I saw an investor comment about out of state investing and they're just asking like some general question. And I would specifically target out of state investors posting. And I would say, hey, would you like to partner on a duplex in Houston? I'll be your boots on the ground. And now, again, I'm oversimplifying it. I got rejected probably like 30, 40 times before this. But eventually, you know, found an investor who was like, hey, I'm interested in that. I'm willing to partner with you. That's just one example.

All right, Donovan, it sounds like you had this moment where the first duplex worked out and you know, you knew you were going all in on duplexes, which is not something I think I've heard a lot of other people say, paint me a picture for what was going on mentally when it clicked. And you said, not, I got a duplex, I want to get a 4 Plex or I want to flip a house. Like most people kind of experiment in the beginning with different elements. When did you say, I'm going all in on this strategy.

Yeah. After I closed on that first house hack, I realized that it took me six months to do that, and there's tons of other people kind of like me in my shoes. Early college graduates or mid-20s, early-30s, and they just couldn't find anything. So the first idea was, hey, I want to build fourplexes or triplexes, which is kind of what everyone looks for. The issue there is, in the city of Houston, anything three units or greater is considered commercial. So you have to go through an entirely different commercial permitting department. And it's a bit confusing because, you know, we're taught residential mortgages are for one to four units, which is true. But on the permitting side of things, in construction, it's been treated as commercial. So I was like, okay, I'm all in on duplexes, because that's the best and highest use of land I can get while still going through the residential permitting department, which is a lot quicker and cheaper.

Now you had the luxury of buying your first property. I think you said it was a new construction, right?

Correct.

Okay, so you've never really understood the pain of buying an old, creaky house. What was your strategy moving into the next set of properties?

Yeah, it was definitely to continue on what was working. I had evaluated a couple flips, but I could just never get comfortable with the thinner margins. Even though I've done this a few times, I still make tons of mistakes, and so I like to have a good, healthy margin of error. And with new construction, I felt I had that versus on the flips. The margins were just a bit too tight for my liking.

And so as you moved on into your. Your partnership, I think you said that you found someone social media, they fund it. Are they funding a brand new property? What type of property was this?

Yeah, so they'll fund the land acquisition. So me and the partner will create a new LLC. We'll split it, you know, 70, 30, 60, 40, give or take. They'll put in the money for the land acquisition then, as well as for the permitting fees. And then we'll use that land as collateral for the construction loan so that we're not coming out of pocket any additional capital. And then the lenders is funding all the construction.

When you went into the idea of partnering with people, bringing on private money lenders, was the strategy to basically build new construction, duplexes or multifamily with them?

Yep, exactly. So I had my pitch deck, and it was specifically for a new construction duplex in this Zip code. So I got really granular with what I wanted, and I felt that make it made it easier for the partner to kind of come along.

There's such a long payback, though, with new construction, because you have to permit it, you have to find the land, you have to actually do the construction. How was pitching that to investors that, hey, I've got this really cool opportunity, but there's a bit of a waiting period before we see tangible results?

Yeah, for some people, they were definitely turned off by it. And then for others, they were like, well, you know, I can only make 8, 10% in the stock market anyways. So if I'm waiting at the time, it's about a year, give or take, four months for permitting and six months for construction, maybe another month or two to sell it. They're like, you know, 20, 30% is still better than, you know, what I can get in the stock market. So that's kind of how I compared it.

Did you think, Donovan, about how much work you're going to be taking on? Because that 30% with what you're doing is not the same as 30% in the stock market. Right. This is significantly harder and there's more risk. How did you factor all that together to know this was the right move for you?

Yeah, I don't think I factored quite how much work it would be. I was like, I can figure it out. It's kind of the mindset I took. And once I got into it, I was like, yeah, this is a lot of work for maybe little relative return compared to how passive the stock market is. But my whole thing was I really want to get the experience so I can leverage that into bigger projects one day. So for me, it wasn't too much about the money. It was about making the investor happy, getting the experience, and hopefully parlaying that into something bigger one day.

That's brilliant. And I'm glad you mentioned it, because you often see gurus post things like, I'm getting 28% returns. And so people compare that to 5% they could get on a CD in the bank and it looks better. But they're not mentioning the risk they're taking, the headache they're taking, the work they're taking, and the fact that sometimes you lose money on a deal, too, and if you add that into the 28% return, it factors down to be much lower. But what you hit is really important. I'm learning something. I'm gaining skills. I'm learning how construction works, permitting works, engineering works. Tell me a Little bit about some of the skills that you've built since you started with construction, particularly what it's like working with architects, ways that you found to save money that maybe somebody else doesn't know.

Yeah. One of the things I like to do with the architect that I figured a little bit early on was to optimize the square footage a little bit. So most people, most buyers, when they're looking at a property, they're primarily focused on the beds and bath. Right. So whether a house is three bed, two bath, 1900 square feet versus three bed, two bath, 1800 square feet, in the buyer's mind, generally they don't really notice that 100 square foot difference. To me, that's huge because if it cost me, I don't know, 120 bucks a square foot to build, that's $12,000 I can save and still probably get pretty close to that similar comp that sold at that was 100 square feet bigger. And because the delta on the square footage is not too large, the appraiser usually isn't going to take too big of a haircut on you. So that's what one of the things I did was optimize the square footage to be 100, 150 square foot less than some of my comparing properties that I was looking to compete against.

So what you're saying is you may have had a little bit less square feet, which would save you money on the building, but you made sure that the bedroom count, the bathroom count, the amenities, the type of kitchen, this materials that you're using were the same or better maybe than your competition. So an appraiser Looking at two condos, one of them is 1400 square feet, the other one's 1550. In their head, basically that's the same thing. But you're spending less on the build.

Exactly. Yeah. And that goes straight to the bottom line.

What do you mean by that? Can you explain that concept of going straight to the bottom line for people that may not be familiar with what that means?

Yeah, great point. So in that example, saving $12,000 on construction, that goes straight to your profit. So any money saved on construction is kind of like a dollar earned almost in the sense of same. And it's probably the same thing with the flip as well. Right. Save money on the rehab. You're. That goes straight to the profit generally as well. So that's kind of what I meant.

That concept works for haircuts as well. Actually, I save money there.

Yeah, I think it's a really overlooked thing to see the Bottom line concept, because this is something we talk about with maximizing revenue in our portfolio where it's so much easier to try to increase revenue on a property that's already profitable, because every dollar that you increase revenue by is, goes straight to your bottom line is an extra dollar of profit that you actually get to keep versus going out and buying a new property or doing a new construction and having to start all that work to kind of start the whole process over and try to be profitable there. And it's just a very long winded process where I think trying to maximize from the get go will make you the most money over time. Which brings me to my next question. Obviously, duplexes were your thing here, but did you ever go into the mindset of maybe trying a triplex or a quadplex? Because I'd imagine you're already doing all the permitting, you already have the land. I'd imagine profitability is higher on those types of properties.

Yeah, we looked into it again. One of the big pieces was the difference in permitting. So instead of going residential permitting, if you went a triplex or above, or you would have to go through the commercial multifamily building department. So basically that's the same department as they evaluate, you know, 200 unit complexes. So it just takes longer, probably double the time, give or take. It's more expensive. The other thing too was as you build more units, you ultimately you're spending more on construction, which means you're having to sell that at a higher price point. So for example, if I built the triplex, I would probably have to sell it at like 6, 700 plus in Houston. That's the median is 350. Right. So now I'm almost selling double the median, in my opinion. I feel like there's a smaller buyer pool for that as well. So I was trying to keep in mind making sure it's somewhat reasonable for a lot of first time home buyers as well.

So that point makes a lot of sense. And then if I'm hearing correctly from your first point, there's a level of effort that goes into triplexes and quad plexes where the juice may not be worth the squeeze for you because you found such a comfortable groove in the duplex world, right?

Exactly. Yeah. It would extend the timeline from 12 months to maybe like 18 months. And so definitely impacts the returns a little bit from the investor point of view.

Makes sense.

All right, let's talk about the construction process itself, since at 27 years old, you're managing entire ground up constructions, which is Incredible. And congrats to you, by the way, if you guys know anyone out there who's saying, I'm still young, I'm 27, I don't have to take life serious. We have a 27 year old here who not only owns real estate, but is building it and selling it from the ground up. You are literally a real estate developer, so kudos to you. But I want to hear for those of us that have never, including me, built something from the ground up, what's the process like? Give me an overview of the steps and then we'll dig in on the details.

For sure, there's probably like five or so big ones. Basically, like most things you're starting with the foundation. So you're putting in Houston, that's generally a slab on grade, which is basically just concrete on top of the dirt. So pretty straightforward there. Then you're going to frame the project with your lumber or however else you're going to frame it. From there you're going to start on some of your rough ins, meaning like your initial plumbing, initial electric. Initial plumbing, electric and H vac. Yeah. And then from there, closing up the walls, putting the drywall up, and then that's when you get to your finishes. So foundation framing, rough ins, drywall, and then kind of like you're finishing stuff like cabinets and tile and flooring. Almost like a rehab at that point.

All right, and how long does it take from the point you start to the point where it's finished and ready to be sold?

Generally, for me, it takes about like five to six months from when we start and pour the foundation to when we're. We're finished. There's people who are quicker, but my whole thing is my GC is a little bit slower, which is okay because I get a pretty good price. And so it's, it's that balance of I want to make sure someone knows what they're doing, but also needs to be affordable to where the project pencils out. So, yeah, for me, about five, six months.

All right, and that is from the point that the. You said the foundation's poured. What about getting the permits and getting the land developed? What's that process look like for you?

Yeah, generally that can be done in about three to four months, give or take, from when you first submit the plans to when you actually get the building permit and are ready to build.

And so in this entire process, talk about the funding a little bit. Obviously you mentioned that you were working with investors. What's the actual tangible loan product that you're using to get this to the finish line.

Yeah. We go to a construction lender. Sometimes it's a bank, sometimes it's like a hard money lender, like fund that flip or now they're called upright. They provide hard money loans on construction. So you're putting the land down as collateral and then they're giving you same kind of similar numbers to like a flip where they're looking at like 70% of ARV and giving you and loaning construction amount based on that.

When you say that you're using the land as collateral, that basically means if you pay $50,000 for a piece of land, you're buying that part cash, then you're going to the bank and then you're saying hey, I've got this land that I own free and clear. You can take this away from me if I don't perform on the, on the loan.

Exactly, yeah. Almost act as the down payment basically.

Perfect. Yeah. That's. I think this is a very underutilized loan product. Just new constructions are really, really great and I tell people all the time that it is one of those things where it's, you're going to get the best return in my opinion. You just have to wait for it. But I just, I like this process so much more because you get a brand new shiny house, you don't have to worry about all the, the maintenance and capex right at the very beginning of it, you have some time to kind of build up to it. So tell us a little bit. You finished this project, how do the numbers actually work out? What do you build it for, what do you sell it for? Run us through some of that for sure.

So one of the more recent ones, we probably buy the land for like 70, 75,000. We pay that in cash. We're getting a construction loan for about 200, give or take and we're selling them at 373 75.

So does that put your all in around 270?

Yeah, I'd say with permitting and like closing costs, maybe it's like 285, 290 ish.

And you said you're selling these for how much? 375.

375.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay, cool. So close to a six figure spread on that, but 80 to 100,000.

Yeah. And then the investment in that scenario is about like the land plus 10 grand. So say they put in 80, we're technically taking home 80 again before the profit split between me and the investor.

Yeah, yeah. So tell us about that. So you work it out with your investor or from a partnership or equity standpoint, are you basically 50, 50 on that or. Yeah. How do you structure that?

Yeah, I think on the initial rookie show I mentioned like I was giving 70, 75% of the profit away. Now that I've done it a little bit more, it's a little bit more favorable. So what I have now is like a preferred return for the investor, meaning if they put in 70,000, I'm paying them 15% on their money up front and then they additionally get 20% of the profits as well as.

That's interesting. That's a really interesting way to do that. That's, that's a pretty high prep for an investor, but it makes sense. You've got the results. I feel like you could probably negotiate that down a little bit at this point. But that does get me into my next question here, which is, you know, you were doing this in the midst of a tough market. I'm sure you're having to, you know, pitch this and kind of prove yourself to investors. How did you even make sure that this specific niche in the real estate business would be so profitable? We'll get into that and what Donovan is doing differently in current market conditions. After the break.

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Welcome back, everybody. Rob and I are here with Donovan Adacero and he's breaking down how he's turning 80 to $100,000 of profit on the duplexes that he's building in Houston, Texas.

You know, you were doing this in the midst of a tough market. I'm sure you're having to, you know, pitch this and kind of prove yourself to investors. How did you even make sure that. That this specific niche in the real estate business would be so profitable?

Yeah, I guess going in, it was more of a. I felt very confident in the numbers because I had the construction numbers and then I had the land numbers, which were obviously that's what we paid for it. And I was comparing it to the duplex that I bought. So because I know the duplex that I bought was 275, I know that's what the kind of end value would be back at. Back in those days, you could be all in at like, you know, 200 or 180. So I'm not sure if I knew or insured. I guess I felt comfortable enough that it was a worthwhile risk.

All right, so give me a overview of your all in costs of everything that goes into your typical duplex, what they sell for and then how much of that is leftovers? Profit.

Yeah. So let's say we buy the land for 70,000 we have under contract right now for like 67. We'll just call it 70. 70,000 for the land.

It's a big step for you by the way buddy, to round from 67 to 70. I see that you're adapting here on this podcast.

Ye trying to make sure the less details. So the construction is like 190 with closing costs added like another 10 for interest and whatnot. So call it 200270 right now. Permitting and impact fees another like 5, give or take. So 275 and then we'll, we'll throw on 10 for I don't know, contingency budget sometimes. So 285 and then 375 is what we sell it for before commission. I typically, I'm a realtor as well. So I'll, I'll usually save the 3% and we're just paying 3% to the buyer. 375 minus the 3% and then minus the 285 all in would be give or take what the net profit would be.

So you're at 365 minus the 285 what 65 plus 15, about $80,000 profit. Then you're going to have short term capital gains on that.

Correct? Unfortunately.

Any way you figured out how to get around those capital gains? Reinvesting the money, Anything creative, Nothing at.

The moment will be done. So on seven of the duplexes so far, we refinance them them and so we've kept them for a year. And then there's two that we once we've crossed that year mark, we, we go ahead and sell long term capital.

Gains a lot cheaper. Yeah. And then are you 1031 ing when you sell or just paying the taxes on the long term capital gains?

The original plan was 1031 but now with the, we wanted the 1031 into like a 12 unit or something like that or slightly larger apartment building. The market in Houston's tough on those right now. It's just tough to make in pencil. So we just, just paid the taxes on those.

My advice is you 1031 into one of Robuilt's projects here he's always like a little mad scientist behind the SC putting together. He's got like a land with a host of porta Potties in the middle of nowhere that people will travel out there just to use them. He builds tiny home communities in the trees where he rents them out to forest elves. All kinds of creative stuff that Rob's always coming up with. His dream is to visit the world's largest potato and stay the night there to put on his bucket list.

And I've recently launched a bachelorette pad called the Pink Pickles. So. Always brewing up weird ideas over here.

There you go. So if you're that type of clientele. Dm, Rob, now I want to know about your clientele, Donovan. Who are the people that you are building for and who's buying your properties?

Yeah, most of the people I'm selling to at this point are young professionals kind of in a similar position as me. Either they're like a nurse or engineer, but somewhere that, like, 25 to 35 range. And this is usually their first home. And on my Instagram, I try to talk about, like, the benefits of house hacking. And so that's where I get a lot of the. The. The buyer flow from.

All right, and then give me the avatar of what the buyer who buys your properties is like. Are these young married couples buying their first properties? Are these investors who have already got a portfolio looking to scale? Who's picking these things up?

Yeah, usually a young single person, generally typically no kids, working professional, graduated school four or five years ago, looking to buy their first home and no longer, you know, rent in the nice apartment downtown.

So they're a house hacker mostly.

Exactly.

Okay. And then how many of these duplexes have you kept? Kept and how many of them have you sold? Like, do you have a ratio of what you're trying to hit?

Yeah, it's more of depending on rates. We would love to keep more. We've kept seven of the. I guess we just about finished number 25 now. So.

Yeah, drives you nuts not be. That's a harder number to do. The math in your head at 7 doesn't go into 25. Really easy. I could read your brain as you were like, oh, God, I hit the 60% number earlier. So good. I'm going to ruin my reputation here at the end.

Yeah, I need to calculate later.

So, Donovan, obviously you have a really impressive portfolio. You've done a lot.

You're.

You're young. I can't even. I don't even know what you're going to do by the time you're 30, but obviously you're crushing it. One thing I do want to ask, though, because I think a lot of people, they're seeing many of us who had success in the last five years, and things have changed a little bit. So can you tell us a little bit how things are changing for your business now? Have you pivoted? What are the numbers looking like in 2024 as opposed to when you got started?

Yeah, when I got started, pretty much buy any single lot in the area where I'm building, and you threw a duplex on it, it would sell, didn't matter what it looked like. It could be the most hideous things, and I've seen a few. I'm no artist myself, by any means, but there's been some rough ones. So design wasn't a factor when rates were at zero, basically. Now design's a big factor, and land prices have caught up as well. So one of the things I'm doing to be a little bit more creative is buying slightly larger parcels. And instead of only fitting one duplex, there's some I have now where I can fit three duplexes, or there's a new ordinance that came out in Houston that called livable places, where I'm now doing a duplex in an ADU where I can get a de facto triplex while still going under the residential permitting code. So those are some of the things I'm doing to make sure now, going.

Into the triplex world. Well, triplex, ish, pseudo triplex with the duplex and ADU accessory dwelling unit, how do those numbers look compared to a conventional duplex build? Is it more profitable or is it just kind of a wash now with the way rates are?

Yeah, I expect it to be more profitable. This is. This will be, I think, one of the first ones in Houston that I'm aware of. So we're very, I guess, conservative on the exit value. But to give you the numbers on that, the duplex and adu, we're doing a slightly larger duplex. So it should cost about like 220 just for the duplex and another 70 for the ADU. So like 290 construction, the land, 70. So 340 all in, like 350. 360 plus permitting cost, call it 380, but we're expecting to sell it like 550. A little bit larger spread, we think, because there's some just standalone duplexes selling for 550 themselves. So we feel good about getting duplex and adu to sell at 550.

Interesting. So one thing, one thing that kind of stuck out to me is that you said that you're building these duplexes now to be a little bigger when your initial strategy was to go a little smaller. Why the change these days?

Yeah, we've seen that the two twos is what I did previously, and I still do those now and then. A lot of the house hackers are looking for a three bedroom unit just because it's easier to rent out from their point of view. So we're doing probably a little bit less two twos and a little bit more three twos as we're. We see the demand for those increasing.

Cool.

And final question for me, because you're good at raising money, you're good at what you do when you're going out and pitching investors. How is that process these days compared to a few years ago? Is it still an easy sell for you or do you have to work a little harder to get some of these private money lenders involved? How's that going?

Yeah, I think it's going well. Just because I've been, I guess, talking about my progress on Twitter specifically for the last couple years. So the people who are maybe hesitant at first now I've seen like, okay, at least he's done a few. And then I explained to them now how my underwriting is a little bit more conservative and I'm forecasting lower exit values. So just explaining kind of my mindset, I think it's. It's still my issue now is more not enough deals. Have the capital ready to go, just don't have the deals.

Ain't that something? You don't remember this because you were just a twinkle in your father's eye, but back in 2010, everybody had deals and nobody had money. And they all complained about the fact that you couldn't take them down. And then there was a point where there was an even amount of deals and an even amount of money. A nice little equilibrium, if you will. But we couldn't find a contractor to do any of the work. And now there's contractors that are looking to do work and there's money everywhere, but we have no deals. And that is how real estate works. It is always bouncing around with some form of unevenness. And you, Donovan, have figured out how to take advantage of one of those opportunities by building stuff from the ground up. If you can't find a deal, build a deal. Maybe that's how you could market yourself on Twitter instead of build a bear. You could be like the build a deal guy, which is another question. Should I be posting on Twitter? I don't think that I've ever done it. I never quite figured out how Twitter worked. What's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think so. There's a. I'd say, growing real estate community on there, for sure. A lot of them are in commercials. There's probably less residential, but I think I've learned a ton from being on there, and I'd say a lot of private money lenders are on there as well. Okay.

Robert, do you have a tweet presence, a Twitter presence?

I do. Well, sorry. I have a small following there, mostly from people like Cody Sanchez tagging me or, like, random people. So I don't actually. I don't curate the content, but I would like to. Maybe you and I could keep each other accountable. We can. We can tweet each other.

Yeah. What's a. There's a situationship. What's a Twitter relationship called? A twitch and ship.

Checks out.

Very nice. Donovan, if people want to hear you on other shows, I understand you've done a different Bigger Pockets recording. Do you happen to know the show number on that one?

I believe it's 1:23 for real estate Rookie.

I believe if you say it's 1:23, I feel pretty confident that that is accurate based on everything that we've seen about you. Thanks for being on the show, man. This has been awesome and big congratulations to you for making the moves that you're doing and not looking for the easy way around it. Man. I can't tell you how frustrated I get when people come along and say something like, david, every opportunity in real estate is hard. Where's the easy one? As opposed to you? That said, all right, it's hard. I'm gonna do it. And maybe it was a blessing. You didn't know how hard it would be because it might have stopped you from doing it. But now that you're in there, you're lifting the real estate weights. You're getting real estate strength, and it is definitely going to pay dividends later in your career. If I could buy stock in you right now, I would. So let me know before you have that ipo, and I would definitely be one of your first investors. Rob, anything you want to say before we get out of here?

I'm really excited to have you back on the show, Donovan, because what you have accomplished, really, in the last couple years is insane. So let's. Let's have you back in a year and see what the progress update is let's do it.

Thank you guys so much.

All right, if you want to know more about Donovan, his info is in the show notes as well as Rob and mine, so make sure you check that out after you're done listening to this. Also, if you like the show, please go give us a five star review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, those help us out a ton. And if you're listening to this on YouTube, you see how good looking Rob is, how handsome Donovan is, and how well I'm also here. This is David Green for Rob, the Perfect Prettiest Pink Pickle Abis solo Signing.

Thank you all for listening to the Biggerpockets Real Estate Podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, Copywriting is by Calico, content and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. the content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk, so use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose, and remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Biggerpockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.