Davinia Taylor: Biohacking Your Way Out of Addiction | TUH #081

I'm a recovering alcoholic, so that's 15 years being sober. Now. What I didn't realize when I first got sober was the fact I was just dopamine seeking. I didn't do it to be indulgent. I did it because it actually made me function better. Until it didn't. I've been put on antidepressants. I've been called bipolar. I was just underfed. I didn't have enough fuel in my brain to be a mom or be my best self.

I like what you're saying, too. You said I didn't have enough fuel in my brain. You didn't say I didn't have enough.

Calories because basically I've always thought I didn't have enough willpower and actually I just didn't have the right ingredients in my brain.

So many times we have nutrient deficiencies and they express themselves as certain conditions. You know, like you were talking about dopamine. We used to have a saying that the absence of dopamine is the presence of addiction. It's hot as the devil and it's pouring down rain. Literally, the pouring down.

We like to keep you guessing what the hell to wear.

It was sunny on the walk home. I was like, how do we go through all three weather phases?

And, you know, I like 55 pairs of trainers and no socks. I mean, the usual stuff, but at least you can buy stuff here.

But do you overpack or underpack?

I overpack with nothing. Just useless, you know, Useless.

And then you're ready for like 15 workouts but no dinner.

Yeah, I mean, I've literally got, I mean, got so much stuff and then nothing to wear. And I drive myself insane. But my husband came down yesterday and he just brought down things like, you know, a coat. Maybe you need a coat, Vinya, but, you know, that's part of my brain. Anyway, I've kind of accepted that she shit's gonna happen, I'll survive it and I'll move on.

I do the same thing. Like, you know, I, I, I, you know, eerily have no concept of time.

No, no.

But I never miss a flight. But my wife stresses constantly about missing flights. And I'm like, babe, the, the data says that we don't miss flights now. But she's like, the data also says that you don't care about missing flights. And I'm like, I don't.

And maybe that's why she makes sure you get it. I mean, I, I get, I mean.

I get really stress is enough for the both.

I, I get overwhel I don't know why I always assume, because I forget really important things, like passports.

I do, too.

Suitcases, children.

You know, that's why people like us have spouses.

Yes.

Right. Because they don't forget.

I mean, I've taken off. He's here. Right. Thank you. But he's here and he. I've taken him to the wrong airport, like, twice. And he's like, what are we doing at Heathrow? And we should have been at Gatwick. I don't know.

And I hate me, but yeah, he's confirming it off camera.

Just a complete waste of time. But it's like. I think this is why I kind of, like, dig the whole biohacking. Or should we say bioharmonizing for women. I like it because I can now accept who I am, that I have certain strengths, and there's some things I just. I'm not hardwired to do. I am terrible at admin. I really am. But I'm really creative and I really. I can see things, you know, a future plan, everything. And it's great. I feel like I live in a movie, but I'm always projecting forward. I'm so. I mean, I'm dopamine seeking all the time.

Yes.

Which I enjoy.

Yeah.

And I mean, I used to call.

It Daydreamer heading in a good direction. Yeah.

But I mean. Yeah, of course. Exactly. So, I mean, as. Actually, I may as well just, like, get this out the way, because I'm a recovering alcoholic.

Okay.

So that's 15 years being sober. Now. What I didn't realize when I first got sober was the fact I was just dopamine seeking. I wasn't drinking to mask any trauma or anxiety. I got energy. I got lit up with white wine, and that was my go to. And I didn't realize it wasn't. It wasn't the wine, per se. It was that feeling that literally as soon as it hits the. Like the. The neuropods in my mouth, the electricity shut up to my brain and boom, I could, like, focus. I could pay bills I could do. I could pay parking fines that I got when I wasn't like, you know.

You know what I mean?

I could do. I could do admin. I could do life. But the trouble is, then the dopamine wears off. Then you have to have another glass of wine. Before you know it, you're six glasses in and you're actually drunk.

Right.

And that's the tricky thing with that.

The behavioral side of things kicks in. Yeah.

The wheels fall off and What? Right. I mean, literally. But I just. I find it so interesting that that's. Now the guilt comes out of it, you know? You know, I didn't do it to be indulgent. I did it because it actually made me, you know, function better. Until it didn't, you know, and then it turned on me. But now I've got other ways to sort of find that dopamine and just. I run every morning.

Wow.

I love running.

I love to hear that.

And I didn't realize why. I mean, I stopped running when I was drinking, of course. I mean, imagine being drunk, running, knocking people out, and they're like, hang on.

I think I've seen a few people drunk running in London.

Definitely.

There's a lot of drunk running in London.

Yes, there is, actually. Running home. Yeah.

Yeah. From the pub.

I mean, I. So, I mean, I'm like the usual hacks, like, get up in the morning. I love coffee. I love mct. You know, I have powder. I've got a company called Will Powders.

Oh, yeah. What does willpowers do?

Because basically, I've always thought I didn't have enough willpower. I thought it was my fault, you know, I thought I lacked that. That edge, that grit. And actually, I just didn't have the right ingredients in my brain. And that's why I wish you'd seen.

My talk today, was exactly on that. So many times. We are just a nutrient deficiency. We have nutrient deficiencies, and they express themselves as certain conditions. You know, like you were talking about dopamine. You know, when I was in the mortality space, we used to have a saying that the absence of dopamine is the presence of addiction and not because people are necessarily seeking a high. They're seeking normalcy. Yes, and you literally just put that into words, which is fascinating, because that is exactly what my. My talk was on today. But you lived it. You know, you weren't. You weren't drinking to get drunk, per se. You weren't, like, seeking the high. You were seeking the normalcy. You said you were functional.

I mean, literally, I could get on the phone and just like, I don't know, cancel a subscription. Otherwise I just don't have the mental energy to do something as mundane and bloody boring as waiting on hold for 30 minutes. You know, I mean, I still can't do that. I mean, no one really likes that, but it really. It wasn't available to me. But, yeah, so now I've got, like, these. These. These powders that I use. And I don't just use My own, you know, I get it, I get it from nature. I get it from like, you know, say mushroom tea, a bit of some cordyceps, something like that. It just, it takes me up a couple of percent and then everything's accessible and I don't get drunk, I don't get high, I don't have a come down.

Yes, yes. And you call it will powder.

Yeah, which I love.

So what's in will powder?

Okay, so the, the sort of signature range. Well, I tell you what I use every day. So I get up in the morning, I'll have some electrolytes and the usual, you know, there's no, there's no sugar in it. We've got a little bit stevia in it, coconut and stuff. But we've also put some dandelion leaf in it and some horsetail tea and it just flushes out, you know, big fat cankles, puffy face. Just all the stuff that women get. When you've got PMT or have been on a plane, you just balloon. So it just flushes that out. That's like one of our best sellers. Women love it, you know, particularly if they've had a glass of wine at night. You know, we're not 20 anymore. You get these puffy faces.

Well, some are, some are still 20.

But you know, I mean it catches up guys. So you may as well just take my advice.

We're talking to you.

Yeah, Donna, just get the electrolyte. Yeah, we can't stand you. Loser. Naive, all of you. Life will spit you out. But yeah, so I start off with just, I mean I just, I'm doing everything quick. I've got four boys, you know, I can't believe. And it's like, it's pretty testosterone and.

What are the ages your boys.

Okay, so number one, I number them. By the way, I know that sounds.

You do home thing, one thing, two thing. Because I've seen those shirts but I.

Mean I do call them by their names, but when I'm talking to someone I'm just like give them the, the order so they kind of can picture it. So number one, he's 17, okay. He's decided that he's best off not doing any academics and he's going to really focus on bulking up and girls.

So he just.

That's that. I'm like, this is great. Okay, so. So yeah, so we're having a huge rouse about that at the moment. So that's wonderful. Number two has just turned 13, so I'm bracing for impact. So then the Hormones are going to kick in any minute. Number three is 10 and I think he could probably run a small country. He is our admin guy and he's 10.

My money's on him.

Yeah, yeah, for sure he will. So he's ever in our family. He's like literally going to get me out of jail. I know he is. And number four is obviously number four of all boys and is like a thug, a hooligan. So he is tough as old booze. And my baby, he has to be.

Right like the last. And four boys, like, no.

I mean he has all this stuff rolling down the bulletproof. All that fell down the stairs, everything. You know, he's just one of those. He's just my. My little one. So, yeah. So basically the mornings are chaotic and I thrive in the morning. That is my. I feel everything. I got a nice rice rising cortisol, dopamine goes up.

Really? So you're a morning person?

Yeah, I'm a morning now.

How about your husband? Same.

And my husband is definitely a night owl.

Okay. That's how, that's how my wife and.

I see each other like ships in the night. So that works.

So like you're shutting down at night. You see get chatty.

Oh, yeah, he does.

My wife does the same thing. She gets so chatty.

I'm like, babe, what are you doing?

I'm like, I'm powering down.

I can't hear you.

But then I'm chatty in the morning. We have this series called Good Morning, Babe where I, I actually wake her up on Instagram. She's not fond of it, but I have a lot of followers that are really fond of it. And it's just how excited I am coming home from the gym after a really good workout and I'm flying high and she's in a dark, cold room under the covers. And I just really. I enjoy in the night, I just share. Share my morning with her and she.

She's like, I don't give up.

She does. She's threatened to stab me in the neck before on. In front of millions of people. I have 2 million followers on Instagram. I got 2 million witnesses.

Yeah, I have witnesses to this. This, this, this is not. This is not going to help you in call.

He's laughing off camera. So I, I want to talk about, you know, a little bit about your journey from actress, socialite with the drinking problem since you've thrown it out there.

Shocking one. I mean, shocker. I mean, I do everything to an extreme. I was a shocking Drunk.

You might not remember this, but a few years ago we through friends of friends, my wife, you. I want to say it was Hoffy Golan. Somebody else. We ended up at Annabelle's together. You weren't drinking?

Yeah.

We left and there's paparazzi taking pictures of you and I got shot in the background. So I was in the Daily Mail because of you. I'm sure we can look. I'm sure we could look it up.

Yeah, we'll find it.

But they were like Divinia Taylor. And then some other random dude, I'm.

Like, said he's gonna make you live longer. Extraordinaire.

Now they would know who I, you.

Know, I know stuff.

There was the whole, the whole restaurant was, was decorated was like a jungle theme and it had like these big birds outside.

Oh it's like ridiculous. Maximalist. It's over the top. It's really, I mean God, I'd hate to be like under the influence.

I was really impressed with that place.

I mean it's really intense and they.

Had like a Halloween room and then.

I mean it's not like a fun factory. It's insane.

It literally is. Is like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory for adults.

But yeah, tons of booze. I mean there's tons of booze and just like tons of like extreme people. But yeah, it's interesting because I moved out of London. Talk a little bit about moved out of London during lock anyway and that's kind of like when I set up willpowers and I will get back into my routine once what Because I started on the electrolytes but I'll tell you my morning routine and I'll say I want to be interested to see how many people vibe with that. And other people go absolutely not. That's too intense. It's funny, isn't it? Because this is what I like about the whole biohacking thing is n of 1 what works for me doesn't necessarily work for you. I've got so much in common with Sage, your wife about I know crazy snips that you know, the well being community would just like tell me you got to have a load of green tea. And of course when I was getting sober I'm like, right, I'm going to have a load of green tea. That was like the worst terror come down.

Oh my gosh.

I mean you explain to to me because you know about these genes more but it's the compt gene, isn't it?

Yes.

Because my journey started really into biohacking when My mom got diagnosed with breast cancer, of course, and it's like, well, you need the BRCA gene testing. So that kind of opened my eyes and I was thinking, hang on, I wonder why I am an alcoholic, actually. I wonder if there's something in the gene pool, because obviously it's, it's, it's in, it's in my family anyway.

Yeah.

You know, and I think it's in everyone's family, the whole addiction thing. But I just, I went. As soon as I realized that, yeah, I am a little bit, well, I am definitely predisposed to addiction to alcohol.

Right.

All of a sudden, again, the guilt comes off and you're like, yes, I didn't have a fighting chance. Never mind. Like growing up in the 90s and the ladette culture and you match a guy pint for pint in England, I mean, it was encouraged. I'm like, I'm only five foot five and I'm drinking with rugby players. Are you kidding me?

Yeah.

You know, so I mean, it just took the shackles off me and the self hatred, which then puts you on a great journey to recovery. And you're like, okay, that's what it is. That's my lot. Let's move on from the past and let's, let's focus on the future.

Yeah.

So that for me was a freedom from addiction to know it's just there.

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Said, oh, I'm definitely not going to get banged up. It's what they know.

I want to feel normal.

Yes, exactly.

And in the search for normalcy, maybe it was nicotine. Maybe it was, you know, so it was drugs, it was alcohol, it was promiscuity, it was gambling, it was, it was whatever.

I mean, yeah.

Fed the doping. Workaholic work alic. Right. I mean, when I was actually a competitive triathlete, I was only an amateur competitive triathlete, But I bet 40% of the guys that I was racing with and training with were recovering addicts. And this was their new addiction. I mean we, we met at 5:30 in the morning, we swam for two and a half hours, then we would do a sentry, which is 100 mile bike ride a few times a week, would run a half a marathon a few times a week. It wasn't normal to train.

It sounds like a hoop, right?

No, it's definitely not a hotel. But, but interestingly, they just replaced one addiction for another.

Yeah.

And I, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm fond of your journey because you not only replace the addiction, but now you're sort of a voice for the opposite. Right. You know, a voice for the healthy.

Yeah. And you know what I mean, people will call me extreme, but I'm looking at what I do is kind of what we need to do in a, in today's society that is surrounded by the subliminal messaging, the encouragement for alcohol, the encouragement for self destruction that. Go on, treat yourself. And I'm not just addicted to alcohol, I'm addicted to carbohydrates as well. Because when my mother got diagnosed with cancer, I've, I was like five years sober by then. I was, I was into it, I was into recovery. I was, you know, I was, I mean, I wasn't healthy. I didn't understand what healthy was until I understood my food was off as well. And I didn't understand what, how, how to energize myself, how to relax myself. I didn't know how to hack my mood, you know, so it was, it was almost like it was a gateway that. Because I suddenly leaned into carbohydrates and I'm not talking just like Domino's pizza. I'm talking like, you know, your overnight oats, your oatmeal. Yeah. You know, all these healthy whole grain wraps and yes, brown rice and everything. And I could never satis this. It was like a tick, it was like a tapping, a dripping tap in the forefront of my brain saying, oh, what we're going to have now. What?

I just.

What. I didn't get any satisfaction. I knew I couldn't drink, but there was something and I had no energy. I mean, I had four kids and, like, you know, I was meant to take them for a walk in the park. I could not be asked. Putting the kid in the pram to take them for a walk. And if I did, it was. It was like I was wading through quicksand.

Yeah.

And my mood was flat. I'm watching daytime TV all day and, you know, going downstairs and then, like, getting another snack and then coming upstairs, the baby's sleeping. I put the TV back on. I'm just watching this. I was beige.

Wow.

Totally beige and flatline. And that, to me, is the unspoken addiction that we have across the globe with these high ultra processed foods. And it is flatlining everyone and it's, you know, and they get excited about it. So when I go take to social media and I dip out of my little sort of like, echo chamber of my lovely moms on my, like, Instagram and I'll dip into someone else and I'll say, why have you tried eggs instead of overnight oats? Well.

Oh, my God.

It's like I've just killed the po.

Don't go after the vegans and the vegetarians. They're nasty.

The overnight oat. Don't go after the oat lot. Do not go after the oatlock. They are lethal. One of them told me to relapse. Overnight oats versus eggs. I said, I've been through a bit tougher times than that, mate.

You drown in a bottle of vodka.

Yeah. I'm looking at this and someone who's ob. Been around early recovery and watch people defend alcohol with their life. It's not the alcohol. It's. My ex husband is. It's not the alcohol. I mean, you see all these excuses, but this is what the overnight oats lot are like.

Really?

Yeah. They define oats, honestly. God, you just dip into some bakery, some, like, Instagram, and just say, I'm digest.

Can I fire them up next week?

Toxic to your brain. See what happens. You will be hunted down by those guys.

You know, I got hunted down by. I got hunted down and I didn't even know this existed. There's a Canola Oil Society of Canada.

Stop it.

Swear to God, Google it. If you actually watch my job.

Isn't that where the show began? Anyway, so there's.

So first of all, you got the, you know, the Canola Oil Society. I was actually on Joe Rogan podcast, and he goes, there's two people I trusted. The Canola Oil Society of Canada and Canada. But those Joe's words Not mine, but. But I, I, I did this whole thing on seed oils, and, and, you know, canola oil was called rapeseed. I didn't name it the rapeseed. It was rapeseed before I came along.

It's a little bit of a. Okay.

You know, you use the term to try to then it, you know, denigrate the oil. I'm like, no, it's.

No, no, it's actually what it's called.

It's actually called rape seed.

It's actually called that. Yeah.

I didn't think it was just a regular seed that, you know, had sex with another seed and I called a rapeseed. I didn't make that up. Right.

I mean, I mean, it's really, like, the worst name in the world. It's like, yeah, who?

But then they were like, the rapeseed is not, you know, toxic to humans. I said, look, I never said the rapeseed or canola is toxic. What I said was industrial process canola oil. Industrial process seed oils are toxic. You can't take an oil and, and. And put it in a commercial press and then have it come out gummy and de. Gum it with hexane.

Yeah.

Which is a neurotoxin, and then heat it to 405 degrees and turn it rancid and then deodorize it with sodium hydroxide, which is a neurotoxin, which is a carcinogen. And then bleach it and then put it on the shelf and tell me that's good for me.

But they do. But they do, but they do, and they keep doing it. And actually, I. I'm friends with. With Dr. Kate Shanahan, and she. Her new book is Great Dark Calories. Dark, dark Calories. And she has actually. I mean, because her first book, Deep Nutrition, was the one that opened my eyes to the whole rapeseed, sunflower oil, vegetable oil. And I didn't even think about the fact you can't squeeze actually any oil out of a vegetable, for the love of God.

All right.

I mean, I'm like. They even named it process that for a second. Yeah. You're just like, I put a pepper in a press. Yeah.

No oil came out. How are they this podcast right now that you're suffering from, either suffering from or. Or know somebody who's suffering from addiction. And I think, you know, my, my perspective on addiction is much more simple. I, I'm not trying to simplify addiction, but I, I don't think that, that the majority of addicts woke up one day and Said I want to get really banged up.

No.

They woke up one day and said.

Oh, I'm definitely not going to get banged up. It's what they know.

I want to feel normal.

Yes, exactly.

And, and in the search for normalcy, maybe it was nicotine, maybe it was, you know, maybe. So it was drugs, it was alcohol, it was promiscuity, it was gambling, it was, it was whatever. I mean, yeah, the doping. Workaholic, work alcoholic. Right. I mean, when I was actually a competitive triathlete, I was only an amateur competitive triathlete, But I bet 40% of the guys that I was racing with and training with were recovering addicts. And this was their new addiction. I mean we, we met at 5:30 in the morning, we swam for two and a half hours, then we would do a sentry, which is one mile, hundred, a bike ride a few times a week. We'd run a half a marathon a few times a week. It wasn't normal to train.

It sounds like a hoop, right?

No, it's definitely not a hoop. But, but interestingly, they just replaced one addiction for another.

Yeah.

And I, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm fond of your journey because you not only replace the addiction, but now you're sort of a voice for the opposite. Right. You know, a voice for the healthy.

Yeah. And you know what I mean, people will call me extreme, but I'm looking at that. What I do is kind of what we need to do in a, in today's society that is surrounded by the subliminal messaging, the encouragement for alcohol, the encouragement for self destruction that, go on, treat yourself. And I'm not just addicted to alcohol, I'm addicted to carbohydrates as well. Because when my mother got diagnosed with cancer, I've, I was like five years sober by then. I was, I was into it, I was into recovery. I was, you know, I was, I mean, I wasn't healthy. I didn't understand what healthy was until I understood my food was off as well. And I didn't understand what, how, how to energize myself, how to relax myself. I didn't know how to hack my mood, you know, so it was, it was almost like it was a gateway that because I suddenly leaned into carbohydrates. And I'm not talking just like Domino's pizza, I'm talking like, you know, your overnight oats, your oatmeal. Yeah. You know, all these healthy, all the whole grain wraps and yes, brown rice and everything. And I could never satis this. It was like a tick, tick, tick. It was like a tapping, a dripping tap in the forefront of my brain saying, oh, what we're going to have now. What? I just. What? I didn't get any satisfaction. I knew I couldn't drink, but there was something. And I had no energy. I mean, I had four kids and, like, you know, I was going to take them for a walk in the park. I could not be asked, putting the kid in the pram to take them for a walk. And if I did, it was. It was like I was wading and I had no energy. I mean, I had four kids and, like, you know, I was going to take them for a walk in the park. I could not, not be asked, putting the kid in the pram to take them for a walk. And if I did, it was. It was like I was wading through quicksand.

Yeah.

And my mood was flat. I'm watching daytime TV all day and, you know, going downstairs and then, like, getting another snack and then coming upstairs with quicksand.

Yeah.

And my mood was flat. I'm watching daytime TV all day and, you know, going downstairs and then, like, getting another snack and then coming upstairs, the baby's sleeping. I put the TV back on. I was watching this, but I was beige.

Wow.

Totally beige. And flatline. And that, to me, is the unspoken addiction that we have across the globe with these high, ultra processed foods. And it is flatlining everyone and it's, you know, and they get excited about it. So when I go take to social media and I dip out of my little sort of like, echo chamber of my lovely moms on my, like, Instagram, and I'll dip into someone else and I'll say, say, why have you tried eggs instead of overnight oats? Well. Oh, my.

Oh, my God, I've just killed the po. Don't go after the vegans and the vegetarians.

The overnight oat. Don't go after the oat lot do not go after the oat. They are lethal. One of them told me, baby's sleeping. I put the TV back on. I was watching this, but I was beige.

Wow.

Totally beige and flatline. And that, to me, is the unspoken addiction that we have to relapse. Overnight oats versus eggs. I said, I've been through a bit tougher times than that, mate.

I'm not drowning a bottle of vodka.

Yeah. I'm looking at this and someone who's obviously been around early recovery and watch people defend alcohol with their life. It's not the alcohol, it's My ex husband is across the globe with these high ultra processed foods and it is flatlining everyone and it's, it's, you know, and they get excited about it. So when I go take to social media, it's not the alcohol. I mean, you see all these excuses, but this is what the overnight oats lot are like.

Really?

Yeah, they definitely oats, honestly. God, you just dip into some bakery, some like Instagram, and just say, can.

I fire them up? Can I just fire them up next week?

Can I be toxic to your brain? See what happens. You will be hunted down by those guys. I dip out of my little sort of like echo chamber of my lovely moms on my, like Instagram and I'll dip into someone else and I'll say, say, why have you tried eggs instead of overnight oats?

Well, you know, I got hunted down by. I got hunted down and I didn't even know this existed. There's a Canola Oil Society of Canada.

Stop it.

Swear to God, Google it. If you actually watch my job.

Isn't that where the show began? Anyway, so there's.

So first of all, you got the, you know, the Canola Oil Society. I was actually on Joe Rogan podcast and he goes, there's.

Oh, my.

Oh, my God, I've just killed the post. Don't go after the vegans and the vegetarians do their nasty.

Oh, the overnight. Oh.

Don't go after the people I trusted. The Canola Oil Society of Canada and.

Canada do not go after the oat.

They are lethal. One of them told me, but those Joe's words, not mine. But. But I. I did this whole thing on seed oils and. And you know, canola oil was called rape seed. Yeah. I didn't name it the rapeseed. It was rapeseed before I came along.

It's a little bit of a. Okay.

You know, you use the term to try to downgrade, you know, denigrate the oil. I'm like, no, it's.

No, no, it's actually what it's called.

It's actually called rapes.

It's actually called to relapse overnight oats versus eggs. I said, I've been through a bit tougher times than that, mate.

You drown in a bottle of vodka.

Yeah. I'm looking at this and someone who's obviously been around early recovery and watch people defend that.

I didn't think it was just a regular seed that, you know, had sex with another seed and I called a rape seed. I didn't make that up job. Right.

I mean, it's really like the worst name in the world. It's like, yeah, who? Who?

But then they were like, the rape seed is not, you know, toxic to humans. I said, look, I never said the rapeseed or canola is toxic. What I said was industrial processed canola oil. Industrial processed seed oils are toxic. You can't take an oil.

Alcohol with their life. It's not the alcohol. It's my ex husband is.

And. And. And put it in a commercial press and then have it come out gummy and de gum it with hexane.

Yeah.

Which is a neurotoxin. And then heat it to 405 degrees and turn it right.

It's not the alcohol. You see all these excuses, but this is what the overnight oats lot are like.

Really?

Yeah. They define oats, honestly. God, you just dip into some bakery, some like Instagram, and just say, I'm.

Gonna fire them up. Can I fire them up next week?

Toxic to your brain. See what happens. You will be hunted down by those guys.

You know, I got hunted down by. I got hunted down and I didn't even know this existed. There's a Canola Oil Society of Canada.

Stop it.

It's rancid. And then deodorize it with sodium hydroxide, which is an earth, which is a carcinogen. And then bleach it and then put it on the shelf and tell me that's good for me.

But they do.

But they do.

But they do and they keep doing it. And actually I. I'm friends with Dr. Kate Shanahan and she. Her new book is Great Dark Calories. Dark, Dark Calories. And she has actually. I mean, because her first book, Deep Nutrition, was the one that opened my eyes to the whole rapeseed, sunflower oil, vegetable oil. And I didn't even think about the fact you can't squeeze actually any oil out of a vegetable, for the love of God.

All right.

I mean, I'm like. They even named it Process that for a second.

Yeah.

You're just like, that's.

I put a pepper in a press.

Yeah.

And no oil came out. How are you.

But I mean, it's just subliminal marketing. I mean, these guys are the best in the business. They came from the tobacco industry straight over to upf, you know, and then these guys know what they're doing to market to time to time press people, you know, and then you've got the American Heart association with their backhanders. I mean.

Yeah.

And it's not even conspiracy. It's just big business.

Just follow the money.

Yeah, yeah. But it's not, it's actually there. You don't even have to do a big deal dig deep, dive down a rabbit hole. It's there. Who funds what and it's bold as brass. It's there. So when people defend it, I'm like, first of all, why, why is it because they're frightened? You know, I'm more than happy to say I've done Marjorie. My mum believed everyone, everyone that it was heart healthy. You know, we do things out of love for our kids. Yes. We got it wrong, man. And you're right. I mean, the whole process is complete neurotoxin. I feel it now and it's because I'm in tune with my brain. I feel it when I've had veggie or because I flatline. Fine.

Yeah.

I don't want to feel fly.

Yeah. It could be as simple as the salad dressing. You know, you're going to get a commercial salad dressing and, you know, these Caesars and, and, and, and blue cheese and. I'm not, I have nothing against blue cheese or Caesars. It's just that when they're made with seed oils and you're, and you're like, well, I'm having a healthy salad, then I put these seed oils on the salad. And then for some reason I feel like after I have a regular salad and, but, but I, I, I like your message because it's very practical, in my opinion. I've seen you talk about commercial farming and the difference between commercial and sustainable farming and organic farming.

It's got the whole regenerative thing. It's just completely like, let's work with nature. I'm not going to be some eco warrior, for the love of God, you know, I mean, I'm not one of those. But I try and eat local. I'm lucky. I mean, even in London you can get local meat. We're not, you know, we don't live on another freaking planet.

Right.

You know, we are, you know, we do have people deliver now, so you can do it. And you know, we, and obviously.

But you have a lot more grass.

The glorious weather we have here. So virtually every day it pisses down with rain. I mean, it really pisses.

You do get kind of whatever weather you want. You just sort of got to wait until it. At some point during the day, you're going to get the weather you want, whether it's rain, cold or sunshine. I got it all. That is an absolutely true, too. It's so funny you should look at My Instagram story, because I am telling the absolute truth. It was freezing when we got off the plane. It was raining in the afternoon and it was bright, beautiful and sunny and it was almost four hours apart.

I have anxiety about packing. There's not a suitcase big enough for every stupid. I mean. And the mad thing about, while we're talking about weather, the mad thing about England is, you know, when you get the weather forecast because we're so boring and bland and drizzly. So in the summer we talk about it In Fahrenheit, it's 70 degrees Fahrenheit. Save yourself, get inside. And then in literally. And then in winter, we'll go, go. It's minus one. Oh my God. We'll go into, we'll go, you will go into Centigrade. You know, so we've got the drama because it's just so like middle of the road. Which brings me on to the grass. So the reason why it's okay to live in the uk, apart from the endless drizzle, is we've got a load of grass. You got, you go, you go 20 minutes outside of London, you know, and you have got fields of cows grazing.

It gets urban quickly. Right.

I mean you've gone on, I mean, I, I literally on the school route, I, I, there's a million sheep in the way. You know, there's loads and loads of cows. So we are very lucky to have grass fed grass finished as standard. I mean they started labeling.

I was gonna say, I find that, I find that very easy to find.

Here all the supermarkets. If it's British, it's just easier to keep them outside. Yeah.

And you know what's funny?

And we don't use antibiotics. That's complete. We don't really. There's a law that was passed in the 70s. So we don't have antibiotics, you know, only if they are ill. We can't do preventative.

Sure.

So as. So we have great access to meat. So a lot of the time, particularly around Europe. So my collagen that I sell at will powders we get from Switzerland whereby law, you know, they have to be amazing protein sources. Yeah, exactly. They're altitude. I mean these cows are healthier than us guys. You know, they're just hanging around in the Swiss Alps and you know, they had, they have the most humane way of slaughtering the whole shebang and is eating nose to tail. So we import from. I love that because by law you've got none of these nasty antibiotics. No growth hormone, no weird GMO feed. The grass Fed, Fed. And so you don't have to start paying excess for organic because it's already done that. You know, in the States, you gotta.

Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, even when I ask in restaurants here if they, if the meat is grass fed, they kind of look at you weird.

What do you think? It's fat.

Like, what else do they eat? I'm like, well, I don't know from where I'm from. What you, you actually gotta ask. You never know. It could be eating soy, could be.

Eaten, you know, tofu, and this is it. But you know, it will because, you know, we, we left Europe and we can. I can feel the pull of America, America coming in. And then we've got a trade deal. Great. And I'm like, oh, God, we're gonna get the chicken, the weird chlorine chicken, this sort of stuff. But I think it's a case of we've got to be able to read labels. And that's all I say to my followers. I'm like, if it's got rapeseed oil in, or canola or, you know, sunflower oiling, it's probably going to kick off a low mood and then you're going to start eating sugar to boost yourself. Put it back, see how you feel after a week.

You said it. You made a statement on one of your posts the other day. Because I went down the rabbit hole of your Instagram and it was a.

Lot of ranting on there.

Yeah, it was some ranting on there and some your husband came out really good on, some he didn't come out so good on. But, you know, I think probably middle.

Of the punches, you know.

Yeah, he rolls with the punches.

I've got a cycle, you know. You know, you can normally see where I am in my cycle as to how I describe.

Yeah, but, but you said I went from counting calories to counting chemicals.

Exactly.

And I love that saying because I think it has such a way of resonating with people that we should be counting chemicals, wrinkles before we count calories because, you know, our food has become so ultra highly processed. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, what, what are just some. Because clearly you're not coming from a medical background and years of practicing medicine. You're, you're a mom, you've got four boys, you know, you've got a busy career, you're an entrepreneur. I think this is inspiring to a lot of women especially that are keeping a busy schedule, that are raising a family, family that are building a career and that Maybe are new to the biohacking space. Right, yeah. So what are some of your like guidelines and go to's and sort of, you know, tips and tricks that you.

My first book which like literally was a Sunday Times bestseller and I think because I put my before and after picture on the back so it's like I dropped about four stone. What's that in America? Matthew, what's.

That pound?

I know. Anyway, you'll figure it out. But, you'll figure it out. Do the math. But, but it's, it couldn't just be.

£4 if she only lost £4.

Okay. They'll figure it out.

So, okay, we've got, we've got our team on it in American.

I'll bring that. So. But I mean I was big, okay? I was big. I had fat knees, like fat. I couldn't even have my like engagement ring on. I was bloated, I was flatline, I was sluggish and I was.

So there's so first of all you got the, I mean, you know, the Canol Oil Society. I was actually on Joe Rogan podcast and he goes, there's two people I trusted, the Canola Oil Society of Canada.

And Canada was like uninspired. I had no confidence because I didn't have any ideas. I didn't have, you know, I couldn't look to the future because I was too busy sit wallowing in. I did a lot of this. You hear me walking through a room, sighing, you know, anyway. But I, but what I wanted to get across on that before and after picture wasn't necessarily the weight loss, it was the inflammation. I was like a walking bruise, you know, I was so much heavier. But I was also holding this toxins and it was this chemical storm. Yeah, I was consuming every day. I didn't know anything about my methylation status. You know, I'm chucking multivitamins down my neck like a maniac because the doctor told me to. He was telling me to cut down on my calorie intake and move more. Well, I couldn't move more because I had no energy in my brain. So that's a freaking non starter and that was gaslighting. But I'm cutting down calories and of course I'm starving anyway and I'm in a massive white knuckling craving, craving, craving. Okay, I'll have a sandwich soon it'll be whole grain which just kicks me off into another insulin peak and trough craving. I didn't understand that I needed decent protein. Major, major, major fats for my brain. Like MCT. And all of a sudden, within 15 minutes, the lights came on. And I'm not this sort of person. I can't, like, go off and, like, try something for three months and come back and check in. Are you joking? Three months?

Yeah.

Hold my focus. I need something within the next, like, 30 minutes. Otherwise I'm moving on. And I'm going to go, or I'm going to go back to old habits. I'm going to have sugar and I'm going to do. I needed something and that was like, break in a case of an emergency. This is emergency. And then all of a sudden I started. I mean, I've been put on antidepressants. I've been called bipolar. I was just underfed. I didn't have enough fuel in my brain to be a mom or be my best self. And now I am, and now I'm confident and now I can feel my gut intuition when something's, like, off because I trust myself.

I like what you're saying, too. You said I didn't have enough fuel in my brain. You didn't say I didn't have enough calories. Right. You were taking in plenty of calories. So. So talk. Talk a little bit about the difference there. Like what. What was some of these shifts that you made from just feeding yourself? Well, nutrifying.

So I was told that I couldn't. I shouldn't have coffee because first of all, it gives me cellulite, which I didn't want because I was covered in that anyway. Does it?

I know.

No, it doesn't. By the way. That's what they say in all the magazines we say said all that. Don't have cellulite. It's. Don't have a coffee, it's toxic, you know, Damn right. Starbucks.

One way to get women to stop drinking coffee is. Tell me.

It actually doesn't. You know, if you have a decent. If you have a decent coffee, it's full of polyphenols. But of course, you've got all these. I mean, we get some of our health advice from bloody Cosmopolitan magazine. You know, that's where you start when you're 16, reading this. And I know half like the editors and the writers now, and they're the most unhealthy people I've ever met in my entire life.

Yes.

So I'm taking it and they're just lifting it and copying and putting. Pacing it, and it's utter rubbish. So I got told, because coffee gives you anxiety, don't have it. Right. So, of course, I didn't understand that if I combined that with maybe a little bit of L theanine, a little bit of mct, all of a sudden I've got this nootropic kicking off in my brain that I've never had access before since I put down a glass of wine. And that wow, for a little junkie like myself is a like, let's go, what else we got?

Yeah.

And then boom, I'm in, right? Because I'm like excited. I've got hope and that, that's the.

Molecule and the feeling feels great, right?

Yeah. Because you go, yeah. And you're not high, you're not out of control. You just like your vestibular just suddenly goes, hello, take it Information.

Yeah.

Turn off the daytime tv. Going to go for a walk with my kid. I'm going to get daylight in my eyes. I'm going to do maybe 5,000 steps. How this is something that wasn't achievable 20 minutes before.

Right.

I mean, and that's what I dig about biohacking, because it's fast, because I don't have the patience or the tolerance to wait for something to kick in.

So what kinds of things have you woven into your daily life?

Okay, yeah, roll it back to. So my morning routine is I'll take the electrolytes and I'll have like the diuretics in it to flush out all the toxins. I'll have a wee immediately. I know that. And then kettle goes on.

You say we immediately we and have.

We straight to the loop. It's out, out of me. We immediately. TV goes on. I love noise, I love stimuli in the morning. Matthew's still in bed.

That's fine because Matthew is number three.

No, Matthew is the dad. Okay, so Matthew's still in bed, so.

He'S number one now.

So he's like alpha. So he's still in bed. The boys are still in bed. I put the TV on, I put the kettle on. And if it's decent weather, I'll step outside and I'll get a bit of British air.

Love that.

And I will just go, okay. And all of a sudden I will fear, feel excited, bit of gratitude because guess what, I've had a great night's sleep because, yeah, I've got sunlight in my eyes at 7 o' clock in the morning, 6:30, 7 o'. Clock. I'm not sometimes up at half five in summer because we've got. Yeah, obviously it's super light. Which can, by the way, can play havoc with your cortisol as the as the, the you change to summertime, you.

Guys go really early to really late. It was like 9:30 last night. Here's my third complaint about the weather here. 9:30 last night. Night bright as sunny.

Everyone's just cracking on with the day. It's insane people.

Yeah, yeah. And I already have jet lag because, you know, I'm trailing it by five hours. I need the darkness to help me go to sleep.

I know you don't get that. No, you can't have that. No, you're gonna crack on.

Here in the winter time, it was.

3:30 and it's pitch black. It was pitch black.

Thank you for saying either way in.

The UK that warrants alcohol because people will go, oh, it's summer, let's enjoy, let's drink outside al fresco. Otherwise it's oh, should we snuggle down and have a pint at three? Either way, people are drinking alcohol. It's such a booze culture here, you.

Know what I mean?

When you're in active addiction. But yeah, you're like, what's everyone, everyone's mad.

Yeah, I do know. So it's like the pub sidewalk is actually full at 5:30.

Oh yeah. Like in the afternoon, literally. And don't even start because men and women, everybody, the football's on at the, the moment, so the soccer's on, you know. Okay, mate, that means all day as all nighters. You're gonna see some party refugees on your trip around.

Tomorrow you're gonna go for a walk.

Tomorrow you're gonna go, are you guys coming home or still out? I can't figure out what's happening, where.

You'Re going, where you're going.

Do you want me to call your mum? So yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot of like refugees knocking around with that sort of like hangover. It's a shame.

So I didn't mean to take the spotlight.

So let me see, I get in the morning, have the electrolytes to get a bit of daylight, and all of a sudden, boom, I'm, I'm biohacking. Nothing. I've not even done anything yet. You know what I mean? If you can't afford electrolytes, just get some nice salt, some salt, a little bit of lemon, get it in you get it down, do what you can, you know, but just, you know, start flushing out whatever you've been swilling around overnight. And then you don't get the kettle on. And I will literally have my best selling products are the collagen bovine collagen from Switzerland tastes of nothing thing and like a keto cream. Yeah, a keto creamer which is the usual grass fed butter, some MCT powder, a little bit of acacia fiber, tablespoon of that, teaspoon of the collagen. Because I keep it under 2 grams. I don't want to kick off any sort of like protein synthesis. I want to keep like in a fat fasted state.

Love that.

And I will just, you know, I've got those amino acids straight away hitting my mouth which is my gut and the amino acids tell my brain it's okay, we don't have to satiate, we're fine. We've got the building blocks to repair whatever we need to repair. The keto powder just helps me stay away from anything. Foodie. I don't want to eat if I'm going to work. I do better in a fat fasted state. I don't do water fast, I don't do religious fast, I do fat fast. I'm a woman. I need fat to produce progesterone. I need it for the estrogen, I need it for the testosterone. Without that fat, I'm going to get hangry. I'm going to raise my cortisol, I'm going to store belly fat.

Want direct access to me so I can personally answer your most pressing health questions? Then I'm excited to offer you free access to my premium membership, the Rule Brcas. As a Rule Brca, you'll be able to join me for monthly Q and A sessions, VIP access to all the challenges I host and advanced access to my most exclusive content. To get your free 30 day trial of Rule BRCAS, head over to join rulebreakas.com that's joinrulebreccas.com right now. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast fast. So when you fast, you do fat fast. I love that. That actually makes a lot of sense. You know, when you take, you know, ketosis is actually a very healthy state. Every, every human being entered this world in a state of ketosis. The colostrum, mother's milk, the first 48 hours is, is ketogenic. So everybody, whether they know it or not, can survive ketosis. We go in and out of ketosis, you know, on a regular basis. What's really interesting, I think, is the reduction of inflammation. It's one of the lowest inflammatory states you can be in the human body when you have beta hydroxybuty reiterate and.

Which is why it's great for anyone who's with neurodiversity you know, if you want to work and you struggle with focus, get fat fasted.

I've never heard of fat fasted. I might not air this podcast, and I might steal that and take it back.

Can you speak to our lawyers?

I like it that much. I mean, I love that, but it.

Just makes so much sense for women, right? You know, I mean, guys do great on a water fast. And heaven forbid, if I got. Got cancer, I do a water fast, right? I do that straight away. I just, like, 72 hours, like, as many times a week as I possibly could, and I. That's what I do if something, if this hit the fan. But I'm pretty much okay. I'm. I. I feel great. You know, my markers are great. Obviously, I. I'm a bit of a geek. I like getting my bloods taken. I like, I measure my ketones. I, you know, I do all that geeky stuff. But the reality is, how do I feel right now? I feel good. I feel productive. I feel. I feel safe.

Yes.

You know, I feel safe. And that, for me, is the best feeling in the world. So for me to feel safe, I elevate my dopamine. I've got a bit of satiety, so the. So the serotonin goes up. My body's, like, safe. It's not hunting for anything. And then I crack on with the morning, and I will have three or four of those coffees, and I don't get the jitters. But when I first started and introduced coffee into my life, first of all, I wasn't using an organic coffee, and I use an organic instant one, you know, But, I mean, I should become a bit more of a coffee connoisseur, but. Jesus Christ, I've got to get the kids out the door. So before I start ratting around with all these beans and everything, just get me the coffee, man, before I, you know, before I lose myself. So, yeah, I mean, and I don't. I don't get the jitters from the mold at all. But if I was to say, have.

A high street jitters from the mold.

It is so it gives you jitters and you feel anxious. You're like, this is not what I need right now. The last thing I need is anxiety on top of everything else I've gone to, you know, because. So if I do have high street coffee, I'll always take some L Theanine. I'll always take some L Theanine just to bring that anxiety down. Whatever's ramping up my cortisol Song. It'll just dampen down that, you know.

And then you don't crash and you feel.

No, and then, I mean, let me see. And then we'll go to 11 o'. Clock. Oh, no. I'll go for a run, then get the kids to school and then I will go for a run and I will listen to like house music. And there's something about that happy house in the 90s that I used to go partying with it. I get the euphoria back. Euphoric recall. I get goosebumps. And I say that to everyone who first starts running. I said get a playlist of three songs, songs that you like. So it might be the soundtrack to Dirty Dancing. Whatever rocks your boat. Yeah, right. And you get those three songs and what you do is you walk for the verse and you jog for the chorus. That's three songs. That's about 15, really. And then go home and watch what happens after a week. You will suddenly be running for the whole song.

Really?

Yeah. Your body just go. You get addicted to the dopamine.

Right.

And that's on the dopamine plus music. You say daylight, keep the sunglasses off. Don't look like Terminator running around a park with this. You know, the sun is not going to kill you. Morning light in your eyes will increase dopamine. Caffeine in your system opens the dopamine receptors. So you feel it more.

Yes.

You know, if you get the jitters, have some L theanine. It increases your creativity and focus in a cool, calm way. You're not going to get anxious. So that for me would be my morning stack.

Love that.

And then I get. Get to the. And then I get home and then I will have something with MCT oil in and I will boost my ketones because I'm going to head into the office and go into battle.

Right.

You know what I mean? And I've really got to think. So that's when I'll introduced MCT or C8.8 carbon atoms. I'll whiz it up in some coffee or even in some bone broth. Taste super creamy, bit of salt, neck it back. And then I'll go into the office and we.

And when you make it in the bone broth, you make the bone broth, it makes it really, really creamy. Is it salty?

Yeah. Yeah. But actually what we did do, because obviously like in the States, we've got a huge sweet addiction. Anyone who was born in the 60s and 70s, went through the 80s and 90s, literally raised on like sugar yes. So we developed a bone broth which is grass fed bone broth from Scandinavia. Again, same fantastic grass.

Huge fan.

And what we did was we flavored it with stevia, we put some like keto powder and so some grass fed butter, some MCT powder and we made like this milk chocolate protein.

Wow.

And it's, I mean it's a massive seller. And then we did it. A vanilla one. And the amount of moms that say to me, can my kids have it? I'm like, hell, this is like chicken soup like grandma used to make or great grandma used to make. And we're scared of it for our kids, isn't it? But you're okay with like a crazy takeaway, a Domino's or what? Our Doritos. And you don't think. And I'm like, oh my God, we are so, so frightened of like the word protein.

Yeah.

Our children. So my kids in the morning, they have bacon and eggs and they have a protein shake and they go to school. I have no power over the school.

Right.

I know they say we've got a salad bar. I'm like, come on, what 11 year old's gonna go to a salad bar with french fries? Are you kidding me? In a burger, right? So there's nothing I can do in the school right now unless I really take them on. But you know what, I'm just not that sort of ninja mom. I've got enough, you know.

Yeah.

They're like literally go to school like in a ketogenic prot fueled state. And of course we all know protein will convert into sugar. So they're not going to be like desperate. You know, their body will is clever. It will make glucose out of whatever it's got. But that's how my kids go to school now. Their behavior, I don't know, I think that's beyond my control as well.

Their behavior, like because you know, we, we in the States.

Yeah.

A lot of our food is fortified or enriched. We spray it with the chemical folic acid. Yeah. And then a lot of kids have this mt.

We're trying to do that here in the bread.

Really?

They're trying to put folic acid in the bread is standard. Yeah.

Oh wow. That would be a disaster for.

Tell me about it.

You know, a lot of European countries, you know, Russian, Italians, like they get a lot of these things. Right. Like the Italians just banned lab grown meats. You know, Russia doesn't allow. It's, it's actually a felony to grow GMO foods.

Yes.

In Russia.

Yes.

You know Here you guys have good, good sustainable farming practices. I think, you know, different. Different parts of the world do a better job at different.

I mean, I think the Italians are so stubborn.

They're just like, no, they're like lab grown meat. Nope.

No. Absolutely no. It's like the French with the butter, you know, as if they're gonna go to margarine.

Yeah.

And they have like better heart conditions than most. You know what I mean?

You look at the blue zones, you're like, wait, they're eating high amounts of dairy and they drink lots of wine and they eat high amounts of fatty.

Butter and you know what? But you know, have you seen the studies with the blues? And they always like, forget about talking about the meat. They never leave the meat in these guys. It's plant based. When were you last in Italy and you've never had a chartreuse reborn? Are you freaking kidding me?

Singapore? It's like highest meat consumption in per capita in the world.

I mean, that's another thing we need to dig into about the whole carnivore movement. I went carnivore for January and you know what? When I came off it, I came off it with like, I always do everything over the top. And I just went, right, okay, first of February, I'm gonna have pizza, I'm gonna have chips. I'm gonna go after. My God, the hangover over? No. I got in touch with is a carnivore over in Australia, Dr. Anthony Chaffee. And he actually uses my video to show his clients how not to come off. Look what's gonna happen to you. You're gonna be a loser like her. I was like, this is. My face is all like this. I'm in a foul mood. No, I'm kicking off. Yeah. I mean, my liver just went. Oh, it was probably my gut actually just went.

So when you would do carnivore, did you do just meat? Fish, Chicken.

Chicken, Eggs. So started off eggs in the morning, I think we had. Yeah, yeah.

Cheese or something.

Cheese. Red meat, mainly red meat. And it was tough. Day three was really tough because Matthew and I both did it. And in fact, I went on stage in a hotel on day three. I said, I'm not sitting with you because he was awful as well. But day four, boom. I mean, that's all it is. Three days of like a little bit of gnarliness.

Yeah.

But the uplift on day four was great. But you know what I really missed? Cucumber. I'm like, oh, my God.

No, I feel like that could Be fit into the Carnivore diet.

I mean I think I was trying to do it, I was trying to, but now. Yeah, I think it's absolutely fine too because I don't have any autoimmune conditions. If I had an autoimmune condition I would go carnivore because that guy who I mentioned, Anthony, he's got a clinic. He said he is like literally reversing everything with autoimmune. It's the ultimate elimination diet. And it's not necessarily for life.

Life. Right.

It's until you can like dip in and see what else might work.

I totally agree with that.

Your lineage, you'll have a huge profound effect on what your body wants and what it was evolved and what it thrived and survived on over the past thousand years.

You get all the essential amino acids.

Yeah. You know, I like to be excited.

Yeah. It's not that exciting. But you know, if you, it, you can, you can wander around in it a little bit. A lot of people think that carnivore is just steak, but you can have fish, you can have chicken.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had fish, had oysters and stuff.

Carnivore MD is a good friend of mine and he's even like Paul Saladino.

He's. Yeah, he does honey now, doesn't he? And things.

He does, yeah. Maple syrup, you know, organic maple syrup, honey, orange juice and, and berries.

I mean to be, to be honest, that is just like an, an ancient diet really.

Yeah.

It's like gather a diet really. It's not really carnivore but I think there's a real place for the carnivore diet. If you've got, you're suffering from fibromyalgia or something like that. I mean, give it a go.

Yeah.

What have you got to lose?

You know what's crazy? People are more willing to take, take methotrexate and you know, steroids, NSAIDs, these non steroidal anti inflammatories. Then they are to just switch up their diet and see if that works. I think the carnivore dogs would work.

Better than I'm like, give me a pill, give me a pill, give me a pill. I want a quick fix. But what I didn't realize is the profound effect it had on my mood. And now I will protect my mood over freaking anything.

Same here.

Because I know that if my liver's clogged up up, that affects my mood. It's just like a hangover. And I, you know, I've worked so Hard not to drink wine for 15 years. The last thing I need is the hangover.

Yeah.

When I've not even had the joy of being smashed out my head, running around London like a lunatic. You know, like, come on. The last thing I need is a hangover when you. Someone's profiteering off me. And to be honest, so many meds just, they just. You need more and more, you get a tolerance, don't you? So it's more of a flatline if you effect. I don't want to feel flatline. I want to be able to sleep when I want to. I want to be able to rev it up when I want to. I want to enjoy my kids and I want to feel safe. And those meds for me did none of that. They took all the gift of life away.

Yeah. And that's the problem created dependency. You know, I like to say a lot of these medications, they'll either create a dependency or, or reliance or what they call tachyphylaxis, which is a desensitization response. And very often you're just borrowing from your future. Right. And you know, philosophically, I don't like to do anything that's going to just borrow from my future. Right. Short term gain today, for long term consequence tomorrow.

I mean, that play with my head anyway, because we all, we all know now it's okay when you don't know what you don't know. So back in the day when I was putting antidepressants and bipolar, when they said I was, I wasn't, I was just a bloody alcoholic. You know what I mean? I'm just an alcoholic. Garden variety alcoholic. That's it.

Garden variety.

I mean, I didn't need all those people pills. There's no way that's going to touch alcoholism. They don't understand alcoholism. No doctor understands alcoholism. The only other person who understands alcoholism is another alcoholic. And they will tell you how to get sober. But I mean, we could do a whole podcast on that, right? But the trouble is, you know, we, we get so conditioned to believe all these meds are going to help us. And it's, it's. Now I know, I don't think I could take another one really, because I know the consequences. But back then you just do what you can to survive. And you know, I have no judgment for anyone who's on med medication because, you know, that's where you're up to right now. You've not got to this place. If I felt really bad and ill or something, I, I would, I probably would Lean into medication. But I don't. Because I've been there and I've done that and it didn't work and this is the result. So it is. Everyone's got their own little journey.

Yes.

And, you know, we have to just respect that for people.

I agree with that.

Easy does it. Easy does it all the time.

Exactly. Not too much, too, too fast. But as you've transitioned now to. To this is a part of your life. What. What would you say are some of the major must haves and some of the. And must dos and some. What are some of the absolute no fly zones?

Oh, well, I mean, no fly zone for me is like that, that Masha tea, that green tea.

Oh, yeah, of course.

That like exploded back in.

And we should, we should talk about that for a quick.

Yeah.

People with that gene mutation, compt. Catechol O methyltransferase compti, which is a very common gene mutation.

How many. What, what's the percentage of the population do you think has that?

44, roughly 44.

I bet it's more. You know, it's got to be more.

Well, that's the. That's the comt. Like even more have the mthfr.

Yeah.

Affectionately the gene. Right.

And it really is a.

It can be. Yeah. So this compt. You know what's interesting is if you look at the Dutch test, which is a female hormone test, nothing to do with Holland. Nothing to do with Dutch. No, no.

It's nothing to do with the dog, actually.

I wonder how it was named.

It's the dry urine. D U T testing. Dry. Dry urine. Testing hormone. Something Dutch. I'll figure it out. So it's something to do with dry urine. Anyway. Nothing to do with Holland.

Nothing to do with the Netherlands.

Nothing to do with the Netherlands.

So in the Dutch test, you know, which. Which is amazing because so many functional medicine practitioners are big fans of the Dutch test and so many obgyns are rightly fans of the Dutch test. But in there it shows computer t. It actually has a sphere for compt. Because compt, this catechol O methyltransferase, sends estrogen down one of its elimination pathways called the E2 pathway. The. My. My whole point in saying that is that this gene mutation can not only lead to estrogen, estrogen imbalances, but it also leads to high levels of catecholamine, which is anxiety. You know, catecholamines are fight or flight neurotransmitters. So anything that excites catecholamines. Right. Like somebody Jumping out of a bush with a knife that's going to dump catecholamines into your brain, you're going to have a fight or flight response. So anything that excites catecholamines is going to put you into a frightened or heightened paranoid type of state. And so if I could magically inject you with catecholamines, you would begin to feel fear without the presence of a fear.

Fear.

And so anything that raises these creates a fear like state without the presence of a fear. So if I just take that down the road a little bit, I think that, you know, people that have this gene mutation when they ingest quercetin, which is in green tea and high amounts, it puts them into the state. So if you have that gene mutation and you want to ensure that you don't sleep, drink green tea, that's exactly.

What I did a few weeks ago in Spain. I mean, I'm a big fan of kombucha, right? Yes, huge fan of kombucha. Now normally I don't get a reaction to it, but they must have used a really strong green tea. So I like drinking it like I do and I drink, I drink it like water, you know, next you know.

You'Re paranoid, wide awake, insane. Yes.

I was crawling the walls and I'm like, what the hell is that? I'm like, jesus Christ, it's a green tea. And I straight away I thought of you.

It's just like.

But you know what it is? It's a psychosis. It leans into psychosis because obviously I've had, had psychosis with alcohol. It's the same feeling.

Yes.

I'm like, here we go again. I'm having psychosis and I've not even had the joy of going to the pub. So this is not fair again. But I mean, the trouble is, you know, a lot of people don't know that and they think it's them. It's not. And it needs to be out there. This sort of like green tea, this like pushed everywhere. Everywhere, everywhere.

I mean, elderberry.

Yeah, elderberry as well. And it's like some people are going to have a literal breakdown with this and they don't know why and they think it's eminent. And you know what? Sometimes it can last up to 48 hours. So what I did when I was in Spain, I rang up the doctor and I said, okay, just give me a high dose magnesium iv.

Yes. And it, yes, it will power that back down.

Powered it back down, you know, and he's a really Great guy. I do. I do a lot of sort of, like, work over there. I'm writing a new book, actually, called Future Proof. And I've interviewed one of the doctors down there because they have a bit more leeway in Spain than we do here in the uk. You know, we have, like, very, very strict guidelines here in the uk, much more so than the. The us, and so it's a bit hard to get that message out. So I generally have to go to a doctor overseas to talk about these things and talk about how you could have an iv, a magnesium iv, if you're having a panic attack.

Yeah.

You know, Whereas, you know, a lot of doctors here will just shut you down. It was strange, actually. I was on.

Isn't that amazing? It's just a light metal that can actually downregulate the catecholamines, which is the reason why you're having a panic attack. Horrible. There's a. There's a supplement. They were actually at the event that I spoke at today called Magnesium Breakthrough. I have no affiliation with them. They're called Bioharvest. It's the seven forms of magnesium. And I recommend that not only for people that have a hard time sleeping or have a hard time with their bowels, but also for people that have to keep it around. For these types of states where you've had too much quercetin, too much elderberry and you start to have that manic kind of episode, or you just go.

Into the airport with four kids and you're late, which is what I seem to do all the time. Which would be nice to have in the old.

Yeah. You know, a little magnesium.

Yeah, just a little magnesium. A little bit of L theanine and.

I'll saunter through the diazepam and zoliped and nitrite.

Yeah. Because this is the sort of. This is the crazy thing. So when you go to rehab or something and you're coming off alcohol or you're coming off whatever, they'll put you on diazepam. And I'm like, mate, are you kidding me?

Yeah.

I'm an addict. Why are you giving me. This is even harder to get off. Maniac. You know, Stop it. Yes, stop it. Let's start, you know, putting some decent infusions in people and giving them a break. Because I said it in a post the other day, I'm like, we are looking at an absolute epidemic of dopamine dysregulation.

Totally agreeing.

Social media is massively the weird shit we've got in our food it is all dopamine driven. Right? I mean like everything. So you watch, it's coming and we need to open up facilities where people can do what I did, but fast track it. You don't want to take, take like 15 years to figure this out.

Right.

You know, we need to be able to just. I understand the addict main brain. No doctor understands the addict brain. And I, and I now have the knowledge from people like you who do this research and put it into the main, into the mainstream. And we can actually begin to get some studies on people because we have these great followings. People will go, yeah, I'll be in that study. Yeah, let's change the freaking nice guidelines. Have a, let's change the fda. Let's actually say, actually, actually, I'm not listening to these studies. First of all, it's not on women, number one. And secondly, it's, it's, it's irrelevant because it was 30, 40, 50 years ago. Why are we still benchmarking from data that's completely old?

I agree.

We have a different environment. We are different human beings to our grandparents, like mega. They wouldn't recognize anything.

We just, before the podcast started, I don't think we talked about this on the podcast, but right before it started, we were talking about autism and the incidence of autism. And I said, you know, I didn't know a single autistic child growing up. I, I still, when I think back through grade school, through high school, I mean all the way through college, I don't know a single autistic, but I also have a 16 year old.

Yeah.

Daughter, she knows five kids just in her high school class with autism and that. And autism's gone from 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 32. Want to get an extra hour of quality good sleep every single night? Let me tell you how I do it. My wife and I Sleep on 88 Sleep's Pod 4 Ultra. This is a technology that fits over your mattress to cool or warm each side of the bed, giving you up to an extra hour more of quality sleep every single night. My wife likes her side of the bed warmer than mine, but I've noticed that I've improved deep sleep at cooler temperatures. It even elevates automatically when it detects snoring to improve airflow. With 99% accurate sleep tracking, you can leave your wearables on the nightstand. And I even had this thing independently EMF tested to make sure that I was not getting any extra EMF at night, which I'm not. Get $350 off the Pod4Ultra@8sleep.com Gary. That's 8sleep.com forward slash Gary. And use the code Gary G A R Y for your discount. Transform your nights and elevate your sleep. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast.

Now you were saying something that I think is really relevant because I know my followers will watch this. This. Tell me what you did to an autistic child, age 16. He was virtually non verbal, wasn't he? Can you explain the protocol you did? Because this sort of thing will give people hope and put power back into the hands of the mothers and the fathers, which is where it should be.

Yes. And I, I'll, I'll preface this by saying, you know, I'm not a physician, so I am not licensed to practice medicine. I'm a human biologist. I have a number of physicians that work for me in, in 10 Health, which is, is a wellness franchise in, in the US that I'm a, a partner in. But there's something called amnionic stem cell injections. They're intramuscular stem cell injections. Remember, the autism is a neuroinflammatory condition. I'm not trying to oversimplify, but for the purposes of the podcast, it's a neuroinflammatory condition. It is very often the degree of neural inflammation is, is related to the degree, degree of symptom severity. Right? So the, the greater the amount of, of uncontrolled inflammatory response, the, the more negative the impact is on the, the outcome. So autism goes from being, you know, slightly autistic to, you know, completely non verbal. Right. To socially awkward to completely non verbal. And that distance across the spectrum at least is, is linked to this inflammatory condition. So what do we do to reduce inflammation in the brain? What we've have done is we use red light therapy. We use something called methylene blue. We do use, would you methylene blue intravenously or like a troche or either orally or intravenously. I mean, can you take it as.

A tablet or do you have to? Because I'm thinking of the transcriptions one where I look like I just swallowed a five and I'm like, what the hell? Look ridiculous.

It's a food dye or a fabric dye, actually.

Why does methylene blue work? I mean, it's pretty hot right now, isn't it? I know they had it at the conference. I've had it intravenously. It didn't do much for me just to tell you that.

Yes, you also have to be careful you have an AHCY break. If you have the gene mutation ahcy, you want to avoid methylene blue.

Interesting.

But most people can tolerate methylene blue. And what it does is, without getting overly nerdy on you, it changes inside of the red blood cell. It changes the state of iron from the ferric state to the ferrous state.

Okay.

When you change from ferric to ferrous state, what happens is you increase the binding affinity of oxygen. And why is that important? Because if I can get more oxygen into the red blood cell, into the hemoglobin, I can get more oxygen into the mitochondria. If I get more oxygen into the mitochondria, it creates more ATP, which we perceive as energy.

Yeah.

And so anything that, that gets into the, that helps oxygen get into the mitochondria. Which is why methylene blue is enhanced by red light. Right.

So of course.

So you can take methylene blue and do photobiomodulation, red light therapy, and you'll have a dramatic response. So the conferences, at least in the states that I've been to, you know, most of them use 10 milligrams in the morning and 10 milligrams in the evening as a guideline. There's a great book called the Ultimate Guide to Methylene Blue.

Okay.

Which you can download on Amazon, you can get on audiobook. I didn't write it. It's a phenomenal book. If you, if you read that book or listen to that book on audio, you will be a huge fan of.

I will do that.

But anyway, so essentially what you're doing is you're putting this former fabric dye into, into the bloodstream, which sounds crazy, but it's very safe. And what it's doing is it's increasing the binding affinity of oxygen by changing the state of iron. And what that does draws oxygen in. And now your cell can eliminate waste, repair, detoxify, regenerate at a much healthier, healthier rate. And so when you're trying to rebuild mitochondria, you really need to rebuild it with, by having it better utilize oxygen. You know, we have in very, very interesting case with a girl who was high school age. She was, she was an Olympic qualified swimmer. She was getting D1 scholarships all over the place. She developed something called red X S, which is when professional athletes develop an eating disorder and they can push their body far into the state where they're muscle wasting and everything else without really knowing it. It's like, it's like the difference between a professional triathlete, bonking in a race. And an amateur triathlete. An amateur triathlete will bonk much earlier.

Yeah.

Usually not being in a life threatening state. They're just like, you know what, this.

I'm not running enough. Yeah.

But the pro athletes, like, I know that I can't feel my legs and I'm blind in one eye and I, I've lost all my hearing and I'm seeing squirrels run across the room. But I'm gonna be, I'm gonna push through this. Right. When they hit the wall, it's disaster. Right. And I used to see this and I was an amateur triathlete. But like the pros, if they would bonk, would probably be an absolute disaster. They would be having life threatening. So in any case, this, this particular young girl developed a seating condition. And red S is where you get amenorrheic period shuts down, they balloon. They gain massive amounts of weight, 40, 50, 60 pounds in a month. Their mood crashes. They get deep into depression. It was really happening, was her mitochondria was insufficient. We brought her back, back with methylene blue. So I'm just bringing this methylene blue story full circle. But in this autistic case, you know, our clinical team used amniotic stem cell injection. Amniotic.

How often was that? How often was the amniotic?

Three, one month apart.

Okay. And it's like a three month protocol.

Yeah, three, one month apart. And then methylene blue, red light therapy, something called resveratrol.

Yeah.

Which was really good for the vascular laxity. We did a lot for circulation and for neural inflammation. And the changes have, that I've seen with my own eyes. Dramatic.

Is he talking?

Oh, he is fully verbal. This particular young man, which we started when he was 16, is fully verbal. He's playing semi professional soccer. He's working on a master's. He's, he's dating and he's no longer agoraphobic. And at the time he was agoraphobic, meaning he had a fear of leaving.

Yeah. He stayed locked in. Locked in.

Yeah. Yeah.

So he would do if you felt or if you had no energy, of course, the hormone implications or you are going to be in a state of.

What an amazing, you know, thing to be able to restart the body's own metabolism.

And I think that that's where you're really powerful because you dig into the detail and you go there. But it's kind of like for me, I think the whole situation with, oh, we've got peer reviewed study, double blind placebo. I'M like, we're good.

That is the old paradigm.

20 years, right? It's literally is 17 years. From bench to bedside is 17 years. And I don't know about you, I cannot wait 17 freaking minutes, never mind 17 years.

By the way, by the time this study has been published, right? That data is already archaic.

Well, exactly, because you're basing it on human beings that are no longer like that. Because imagine just tech. Like there's a thing called Moore's Law, which I find interesting. So M O O M, double O R E S Moore's Law. And whereby is since the 60s, technology has doubled in speed. Speed and halved in size every two years. And that is, that just shows where tech goes and there's, it's like a linear graph, you know, and that's Moore's Law. So imagine how humans change with that amount of technology implicated. How we don't walk, how we don't get daylight. We are not the same human beings from 20 years ago, no doubt according to Moore's Law, because, hey, we even have microwaves. You know what I mean? It's completely freaking different. But I mean, but the tech there that you could look at it on the, on the worst side, but the tech that you implement, you know, the infrared saunas, the red light. Yes. Photobiomodulation, even the IVs, you know, there is something so fantastic about technology that we can harness for our benefit. We can have literally all the, all our creature comforts and we can have an ancient primal life so our body's happy and it gets stressed in the right way, but it still feels safe. And you can burn fat and you can still multitask and you can die at ripo old age of 150 if you want to.

Yes.

Bailout.

You're like five years from today. You'll easily live to 100.

Well, I was talking to a guy called Aubrey De Gray, who is bonkers, right? I mean, bonkers English eccentric scientist. And he said, the person who's going to live to a thousand is already alive.

I agree with that.

Who is that? I want to know who that is.

I don't know. But you know what's going to happen in the next five years is you're going to see three centuries of, of medical advancement in the next half a decade because we have the convergence of artificial intelligence, big data and early detection. And you know, we can, we can now process and assimilate 700 trillion potential outcomes, let's say, from your DNA, and we can make an actionable Step out of that. And I don't want to flip this podcast from your podcast to mine.

No, no, I mean, I actually said, I knew I'd end up interviewing you, by the way. So if you could just send everything over, you'll just run it on your podcast. It's fascinating. You've got so much hope. You, your message is so optimistic as opposed to, oh, you know, everything in moderation or Eugenes are your destiny and all this shit. So we hear.

It's not, is it, you know, it's amazing. Humanity is so, we, we are about to thrive in ways we never thought possible. Because, you know, gone I, in my opinion is the old paradigm. The days when we used to study things in isolation, right. When we take a cell out of a human body, we'd put it in a petri dish, study in a lab, and we'd say that cell is going to behave the same way it does in this petri dish, in this lab, in vet vitro, when we put it back into the human body. And nothing could be further from the truth, Right. Human beings don't behave in isolation, we behave in community. Cells don't behave in isolation, they behave in communities. And I think some of the worst research we've ever done is when we study things in isolation, we say, okay, LDL cholesterol up, cardiovascular disease up, let's push LDL cholesterol down, cardiovascular disease goes down. But then we realized 10 years later that, oh yeah, when we pushed LDL cholesterol down, we interrupted cell walls, cell membranes, hormones, vitamin D3. And we had all these downstream complex consequences.

Yeah, you might have low ldl, but you're depressed, you can't move, you're foul to everyone, nobody wants you around anyway.

Depression, right?

Yeah, exactly.

We were on the serotonin hypothesis, depression for 15 years. And they were like, oh, increased rates of suicide, increased rates of, of crushing depression, you know, sustained irreversible tachyphylaxis, decent, you know, receptor desensitization. And so, so then, then, then things swing full circle. But that's not, that is going to become less and less likely because big data is going to stop it. Right? Like instead of taking five people and sticking them in a sleep study at University of Miami, putting electrodes on their head with the two way mirror and some freaky dude looking at you. Right. In a room with a clock.

That's questionable. Freaky dude, by the way. Yeah, you know what I mean?

We're going to take a million people that have whoops.

Yeah.

And we're Going to say, okay, we got a baseline on a million people right now in real time in their own homes, in their own environment. And they're going to opt into a study and we're going to do like these five things. We're going to darken the room, we're going to decrease the temperature, we're going to have them take a contrast shower, do breath work technique, unplug the electronics, you know, six feet from there, the usual stuff. Boom, big jump in sleep score. That's valid data. And big data is, is, is going to circumvent the system in my. That you're gonna see the chemical industry losing.

Does that mean for Big Farmer and how are they going to interrupt? It's a disaster. But, but I mean, I mean, I guess like that they did with the tobacco industry, they'll just jump ship and do something else. I mean these guys, I mean, whoever they are, they're brilliant marketeers and they're brilliant at making money and there's obviously this will be something else they can do. Actually, I was just, I was Talking to a PhD the other day who's, who's asked me because I've got a really, I've got a really strong Facebook group. It's like a closed Facebook group and it's called For Fat Sake. The For Fat Sake ffs, you know, because obviously all our go to Sake.

It's like fantastic.

Well, I mean it is, but it's like the ex. Because my demographic that have follow me, we're like, it's 98 women aged in 35 and 65 and we're all spinning plates and we're all going for sake all the time when things go wrong. And I'm like, just put some fat in your diet and that will decrease. The rage will decrease because your brain has the energy. Because I was talking to Mindy Peltz yesterday and she described it really well. She said women in after sort of 35, their brain doesn't respond to glucose. So enter brain fog, enter low mood. So of course we start feeling like we're depressed. We're not. We just don't respond to glucose in the brain anymore. We just, it just, it's just, it's just overstimulated and it shuts down. So enter ketones. And that's why me, like mid-30s, when I had first, first took the MCT oil, my liver converted that to ketones. Ketones. It got in my bloodstream, it hit my brain. Boom. I'm on right. I've turned on. I feel like I'm 25 or before that, because I was drinking at 25, so I feel like I'm 17.

Right.

You know what I mean? My brain suddenly like went, hello, hello. Actually, you know, this is different. So. And that makes so much sense why for particularly me, my age group is because my brain was sick and tired of the glucose anyway, so I needed to switch to ketogenic. Now I'm not ketogenic all day, every day. I have like sourdough bread at night because I like those cold carbs, they make me feel cozy. I get sleepy, I have a carb coma and I go to bed. Happy days. So I have like when I'm, you know, I'm on it, I'm on it, I'm on it, I'm ketogenic. But then I look forward to my carbohydrates at night I have a roast dinner and everything. I'll have that roast chicken with the veg and the Yorkshire puddings and everything. And you know, I, I've, I've cooked it. I know it's been cooked in goose fat, the potatoes are in goose fat, you know, and I've not got any bloody weird rapeseed oil or anything like that. And I'm using lard and I'm using beef dripping and I'm getting all those good fats, but I'm also getting the carbohydrate hydrates and then I'm sleeping at the appropriate time of day.

Yes.

You know, and that for me is the best way to eat because I eat with the kids. Well, just about if, if they will.

Are the kids, are the kids following this or you kind of don't give them a choice?

Well, obviously breakfast is my choice and no one's really going to sit down and cook for me, you know, And Matthew, he's a really good cook. We're big meat eaters, you know, and we do have meat, sort of two veg. Exactly what your great grandma used to, to have. We always have bone broth in, we always have the milkshakes in the other. Bone broth, milk.

Yeah, I love bone broth.

But hey, what, what can I do when they go to a party? I'm not going to be that mom who say, no, you can't have that. Because I don't want them to push back. I don't want them to rebel.

Yeah.

I want them to feel good for themselves. So one of my 10 year old the other day, the one who couldn't run a small country.

Yes.

I don't know. I Had a cold shower today, actually. I just turned it on. Cold. Feeling good. And off he went with his cricket back. Yeah. So that's the osmosis, right? It's their choice. They hear me and Matt talking about it, or they'll hear me on a podcast about doing a cold shower at night or in the morning. You know, whatever time of day I feel like I want to do that. And my kids are all into it.

They all have cold plunges at their places.

Power to them rather than. No, you can't have that. They'll go now. Do you know what? I'm all right. Makes me feel a bit.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I mean, that is power, knowing your own body.

My daughter moved into her own place recently. She's like, dad, I need a cold punch. Dad, I need. Every time I talk, she was like, I need a cold plunge because she had one in her other place. Divine this. This has been amazing. I. I have a feeling, first of all, I'm going to have you back and you're going to have me on, because this is. This is amazing. I think the world needs this message. You know, I sort of wind down every podcast by asking my guests the same question. There's no right or wrong answer to this question. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

To be able to access joy when I want to, to access safety when I want to, to access creativity, and to access love whenever I want to. So it's on my terms, my choice, and also be a bit badass when I'm driving.

That is amazing. Divinio, this is awesome. I know that we going to have you back again. I really enjoyed you giving us your time today. Thank you for sharing your story with my audience.

Thank you for everything you do.

And as always, that's just science.