A Sad Day in HubHeroes History

Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed apartments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace Lord Lack? Lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt knowledge. Never fear, Hub Heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask into action and become the Hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the League of Extraordinary Inbound Heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute Hub Heroes. It's time to unite and activate your powers.

All right, guys, we're here.

Yeah, we're here. Here we are.

Circumstances. So what are you thinking about the. That intro and how you're not gonna have it every Monday morning?

Oh, wow.

Ouch.

Ouch. It hurts.

All right, I guess.

Go ahead, Liz.

Say the words.

Guys, tell the party people what's happening.

Hey, party people. Today is my last episode on the Hub Heroes. I'm retiring.

Oh, my gosh.

How you guys doing? I know we've had a few weeks to sit with this information. I told you guys cried, and then I cried. So hopefully we'll make it to today's episode okay.

It's sad.

Yeah. Well, first of all, it is sad. I'm. I'm very interested to see the amount of value that hopefully Max, Chad, and I can extract from your brain over the next 30 to 35 minutes.

This is your chance, guys.

Yeah, I'm. I'm super excited about this. So. So obviously, Liz, business is going well. You've got travels, you've got things, you've got projects, and so you've been dang on two years. Two plus years, huh? Three years. Three years of Hub Heroes podcast episodes. First of all, just because of that, we need to just, like, give an applause. Like, come on. The fact that you could hang out with me and Max and Chad and Devin, who used to also be on the show for, like, a saint. Maybe you might have sainthood at this point, potentially. Yeah, I think so. Maybe. I think so.

In the Hub Heroes church. It'll definitely be something.

That's for sure.

I know.

So.

Can't believe it.

I know. It's nuts. So I want to start because, by the way, everybody, just so you know, we're gonna. We're gonna kind of ask Liz some questions. And Liz, I want to start with over three years working on Hub Heroes podcast, helping with the, you know, outlines and the show and the. The shenanigans that we all kind of throw out. Like, what's the, what's the kind of maybe one thing that you've learned, enjoyed? Like, I'm giving you a couple different directions, but like, if you could summarize three years of this.

Oh, totally, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. What would, what, where does your brain go?

I'm resisting the urge to be like you at the end of every episode. I don't have one thing. I have 15 things.

There you go. There you go. Now you know why I do that. You see.

I know, I know, I know. I would say the one thing that really comes to mind, particularly as I reflect on the past 18 months of episodes where we've seen a lot of complexity get introduced into the HubSpot ecosystem. I think sometimes it can get really easy to get lost inside of that complexity. And if you need an example of that, just go back to our 75 part series on loop marketing. But I've been having a lot of conversations recently, both inside of the HubSpot world and outside of the HubSpot world that kind of reminded me that complexity is an important thing to master inside of the HubSpot ecosystem. But it can just as easily become a distraction because the fundamentals of HubSpot and inbound are still the same and in fact they're more critically important than ever. Right. Like we're sitting here trying to figure out, well, how does this part of HubSpot talk to that part of HubSpot? And you guys say things on this show where I go, yes, yes, I know some of these words. Like, there's a lot more technical complexity that is now baked into the platform. But fundamentally, at the end of the day, we are living right now in a set of economic, political and global realities where you just need to get your trust house in order, guys. Like, that's really what this fundamentally comes down to. You can have the best APIs, you can have your knowledge base thing all set up, you can have your invoices running through ops, you can have all of these different things happening. You'll be doing all of the things technically right. But if the ethos of your organization, if you are not solving real problems, not imagined ones, if you are not leading with the goal of selfless education and actually helping people, you will lose. That's fundamentally it. That has never changed, but I think it's becoming more urgent right now. I'm seeing a lot more conversations, not just in content marketing spaces, but in other spaces about trust is all we have. Trust is always all we've had. But I think people are now feeling the pressure cooker and the urgency around it more. Because I think as much as we don't like to admit it, we assumed trust was there between us and our buyers and it is not. Yeah, our buyers and all that stuff. Like, we're all a lot more stressed out than we used to be. A lot less prone to de facto trusting.

I want to. So I want to dig in one question deeper in what you just said. And then Max or Chad, you guys can ask a question whichever direction you want to go. But you said this term and I want to dig in deeper to that. You said get your trust house in order. When you as a content strategist, like dope, human being, person, that provides value. When you think of the trust house, like, what's the four walls of that house that they should be paying attention to?

Yeah, I mean, start simple. Think about the customers you currently have. Do they trust you to keep your promises, to do what you say you're going to do? Like, let's look at the loop marketing situation for a moment. Yeah, that 75 episode epic saga. We spent 50% of our conversations trying to figure out whether or not HubSpot was solving a problem for us. The customers are solving a problem for themselves and that starts getting into really murky waters. And that is, that is an example of what I'm talking about at a, at a scale that a lot of the organizations who listen to this podcast are not operating at. But it fundamentally, it starts there. The promises you're making to your customers, are you keeping them? When you make changes to your platform, when you make changes to the things that you're doing, how easy do you make it for them to understand? Is it actually for them? Are you making more choices for yourself versus your customers? And right now I get it. It's a very scary time. When we are in fearful spaces, when there's a lot of uncertainty, we tend to make decisions to fortify our own sense of security and safety. And when you're in the business context, that means the sacrificial lamb is often going to be the customers who are banking on staying. So that's one aspect of it. When I think about another aspect of your trust house, I mean, this is going to sound, I wouldn't say hokey, but maybe it might seem not related. What's the trust you have between you and the members of your team? I watch. I have been inside of organizations that fall apart because the reason why the organization falls apart isn't because there's something wrong with the product. There's something wrong with the market fit. It's because at some point something from a trust perspective gets broken inside the organization. And that's how you lose. Great people lose, great teams, lose the ability to actually work together. And I'm not saying it's like up, down, left, right, like, trust can get broken in a lot of different ways inside of an organization. But then if we want to get more into the marketing side of it. I've been seeing a lot of. I don't have a beeper button, so sorry, Noah, just heads up. I haven't seen a lot of shit. Content, a lot of AI slop, a lot of. I literally had someone this morning try to pass off something for me to edit. And the whole piece was about like, you know, you've got to rise above AI and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I read through it, I'm like, this whole thing was written by AI,

Written by the thing that you gotta rise above.

Right, Exactly. These are the times to go back to basics. And I've always found this to be true. Whenever you have a lot of candy in a candy store, whenever you have a lot of things, a lot of bells and whistles, a lot of stuff you can kind of like optimize and scale and do all these things, usually it comes down to something very simple. Your messaging strategy. Do I need someone to explain it to me to see how clever it is, or can I just read it and understand what it is that you do, who you do it for, and how you do it better than everybody else?

Sure.

Like this is about basics right now because we do have all these opportunities with technology, with AI, with all these things. But one of my favorite things that I ever had a client tell me years ago is that that's the thing about automation and AI and all this stuff. If you're already producing, all it's going to allow you to do is to produce at scale. So this is my, my four walls Max.

Chad. Where's. Where's your brain go? You have, you have this episode to ask Liz anything.

Well, she's welcome back anytime, by the way.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Without a doubt. I love, I love that you do that.

Sainthood guarantees you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Every week. You're welcome back.

Yeah, yeah.

The weird man. I don't even. I feel like I would have had an answer to this back when I was doing, like onboarding for HubSpot. But in today's day and age of AI generated content, and you know, kids these days, growing up with a lot of these tools that none of us had when we were first entering the job market. If someone is, like, getting into, like, content creation for, like, a. Like a business standpoint, like this, Right. Like, creating content for a business to do the marketing. To do marketing. Right. Where do you. Where do you even start today? Right? Like. Like, is it, like, you know, does the.

Yeah.

Like, that's. That's the thing. I don't even know what advice. I mean, I would probably default back to my, like, you know, my basics, because I still think they hold up.

Right. Of.

Yeah. Like, just if you don't know where to start, figure out, like, who you're selling to. Who's your buyer Persona. Right. But, like, is that still valid? I don't know.

Well, here's the thing.

Like, what would be your advice to, like, a new marketer coming out of, like, coming out of college, and they need to do the content thing, and

they're, like, trying to be someone like me? Like, they're trying to specialize.

I think they're just trying to survive.

They're just trying to survive now.

It's kind of funny. I think we're operating under the assumption that recent changes have contracted opportunities for this kind of work. That's assuming those opportunities were there to begin with. Here's a funny story. So I ended up as a content specialist by accident. I started at a very small agency in Annapolis. I was brought in as a generalist, but I had a writing background. But small agencies didn't have people who were just specializing in content at the time. Content was really treated as one of 80 steps you take care of. And what. That amplifies to age of loop marketing. Like, it was. It was like this tiny thing where it was just, like, assumed that, oh, if you were in marketing, you just did content. It wasn't. It wasn't really considered a specific discipline. Kathleen Booth, who was running the agency at the time that I worked at, saw, I think, in a way, a gap that a lot of other agency owners didn't see, which is that she had a lot of very smart strategists where content was a drain on them. So she took the unique step, especially at an agency that size. We were, like, under 10 people. To have me just be a content manager. Then when I went to Impact, but we were. We merged with Impact. Bob Ruffalo gave me a job offer without a job title because he didn't quite understand what I did, but he thought I was really smart and should be there. And then I ended up really kind of Niching down into content strategy. But it took like a year or so of me being a dedicated content strategist on the brand team, then one just for the sales team. Then I came back and started taking over like the whole kind of content program there. This is still the same thing that we've always had. Content has always been this weird redheaded stepchild inside the inbound marketing ecosystem. We know we want content, but to this day, there is still no HubSpot Academy course that just says, by the way, this is how you actually make a strategy and this is how you actually start to finish, make a piece of content. Like the actual principles of storytelling, of content creation, of all of these things. It's still something that is a lot, causes a lot of pain inside of inbound. It is not something that has ever been solved for. And finding opportunities to end up in this kind of work has always been kind of in a crapshoot. Now here's what I will say though. I had this opportunity because I made this opportunity because this is the thing that I'm really good at. So I entered in with generalist roles and I doubled down on content and then we made the case for my role to exist. Now what I will say is in larger enterprise organizations, like if you go more into enterprise level, if you go into BDB or B2B, that's a little bit of a larger scale, Larger organizations with admittedly more red tape, admittedly a little bit more bureaucracy. Content writers, content strategists, like those are things that they have inbound. I still think this is the greatest opportunity for HubSpot that they continue to just willfully look away from is to create a pathway for real storytellers. Because right now, unless I'm mistaken, George, the only person who's still banging this gong in any sort of way is Marcus Sheridan. Still trying to get people to hire J school students to write articles. But even then, there's a ceiling to that. Content writers usually struggle to be great content managers because they're assignment writers, they're not great strategists. We still do not have a pathway for people to build editorial content programs, which is still what we've always needed. I'm self taught and I come from a unique background and I'm also tenacious. So, you know, I just. But I had to teach myself all of this stuff. I built my methodologies for content, strategies for messaging, strategies for all these things because I kept trying to find materials to just please let me be lazy, please just tell me how to do My job for me, and they did not exist.

So I have. Gosh, Chad, I know you need to ask a question, but I have. I have two. Well, I. I'll keep it to one. Liz, when are you gonna build that road map for everybody?

Which roadmap?

The one that basically teaches everything that you've taught yourself to get to who you are so that people coming out of college or trying to do content can just take your course or take your XYZ or what. When's. When's this going to build that thing?

I just realized that it's been a while since George has called me to the map on. Oh, here we are. You know, that's something I've always really struggled with. Not because I have a lack of content, clearly, but there is this gap, which is the thing I've been talking about, which is that there are times where, like, I'm at a time right now where I am in great demand. Like, I haven't felt contraction due to AI. If anything, I'm more in demand. And what's actually interesting is my work has become more complex and more interesting because of it, because I'm solving higher impact problems. But the challenge is that what I do is either misunderstood by a lot of the industry or they just don't want to deal with it because it's too much work, too much investment. But. And maybe that's kind of a negative way to look at it, but it's just I would be very curious who would want to learn this, because sometimes I feel a little bit like a speakeasy, right? And I've talked to a couple of friends of mine who specialize similarly the way that I do. People who work with us love working with us. If people don't know what we do or don't understand it natively, they just hear money, money, money, expense, expense, expense. I can have Claude do this. Like, there's a weird delta there where it's like I could see a new generation of people like me right now. But it is very hard to get people excited about the things that I do. It was already difficult to get people excited about the things that I do because I am the human personification of, of homework and inbound blog articles, Billy pages, messaging strategies, all the things that make you go slow down, educate, do these things the right kind of compounding interest. Now, again, I'm not putting myself down. I mean, I've been crazy busy. But this is just the thing that makes me sad is that, like, we have all of the going back to the first question in this conversation about, like, trust, Right. We have all of these people running around, desperate to figure out, well, how do I communicate trust? Maybe ChatGPT will tell me a new sentence for the thing I already do. When there are people who are built to be storytellers, where the. Where it feels so stupidly simple in some ways, you don't believe it can be profitable. You don't need fancy words. You just need the right words. And you need to want to invest the time and the energy into them and the people. Like, that would be like saying, oh, you know, sales leader. We can find someone who, like, does sales as part of their job.

Yeah. You know, Chad, where's your. I. I have a question I'm not going to ask you right now. I'm gonna wait. But, Chad, where's your brain as far as, like, questions for Liz?

Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, so many things. I mean, Liz, you've been here for, you know, three years doing this. I was a listener before I was a co host. You know, hanging out in the chat, listening to all the good things y' all had to say. Yeah, Chad, in the chat.

Chad, the chat.

I. I just think, like, I mean, even what you're saying starts to go to the place where it's like, you know, what. What it feels like. The. The real underlying thing here is, is, like, trust. I think human connection is going to be almost a form of currency at some point as abundance grows right in the world and more things are readily available. Like, the thing that we'll capitalize on seems like it's going to be human connection, and it seems like telling a story connects people to your brand, I guess.

Right.

And anyway, all that to say, like. Or to ask, like, is that really the thing that you feel like people are going to need to be focusing on? Or, like, maybe would that be some critical piece that you've learned over time? Because, I mean, I. Mr. You know, live in the workflows, and I like the technical complexity because I like to understand it and help teach it to people. I'm, like, all the way on the other side of that fence. Right, But. And like, making the engine work to support people so that they have a good experience, like, customer experience from beginning to end. But with you, would you say, like, without being distracted by the technology, without being distracted by the AI, what's the most important thing for, like, maybe a business in 2026 to remember about that human connection or that trust center?

I have to point something out. And Chad, the Way you frame that question, I think kind of points to one of the big gaps. And I mentioned this while we were talking about trust, guys. Is it really the year of our Lord 2026 when we've decided human connection is a critical part of our business? Like are we be so for real right right now? Did we forget like I. We discovered that back during COVID But like that's the thing that drives me crazy about this. And then I'm going to answer your question because related to it, this is the necessary foundation in order to make any sort of connection with anybody. You have to have a human connection that's built on some sort of trust relatability, some sort of. It's just how we interact in the world. I don't care if you're more of a technical expert or you're more like me and you just won't shut your damn mouth like it doesn't matter. Think about the conversations that all of us have had. They're all built on stories, they're all built on trust. They're all built on human connection. What I find fascinating is we act like colonizing archaeologists going like, oh my God, human connection. Discovered it in the sand next to this sarcophagus of trust. This is how we function as humans. There's this really fascinating study that I discovered recently where people tend to. Feelings aren't facts. I like to make logic based judgments. All of these different things, right? Do you realize how much of our decision making is based on emotions? There was this fascinating study where they studied a group of people who. Their intellect was intact, their IQ was intact. They could explain right and wrong from an intellectual perspective. They could. There was nothing about their intellect that was corrupted in any way whatsoever. They knew what they were supposed to do, they knew how they were supposed to do it, all of these different things. But they had a particular type of lesion on their brain that, that created a disconnect between their emotional fifi's center and their ability to and their decisions and their logic part of their brain. And wouldn't you know it, those people who could speak at length about right and wrong, but had those disconnects that lesion in their brain. Their lives were falling apart. They couldn't hold a job, they couldn't keep a relationship together. Everything like friendships, family, everything, just complete dumpster fire. So I bring this up because we tend to forget that we are human beings and we make human based decisions. Human connection has always been important. It's just when things are going well and the economy is going up and nobody's worried about war or anything. We take all of those things for granted because money is kind of everywhere and nobody's making a lot of smart decisions. We're all just like, yay, everything's great. Da da. And we take all of those things for granted. The moment that ecosystem has any little grain of sand, of stress reintroduced to it. Oh God. Human connection, that's important. Our customers should trust us. Oh God. And then all of a sudden we have a new spate of keynotes. Talking about trust is the only currency we have. Now back to your question. Chad, on. Based on all of that, the reality is, is that I don't possess a different skill set as a human being than any of you guys sitting here. You're all storytellers. You do all of this stuff reflexively, without thinking because you woke up this morning and you're a human being who makes feelings based decisions. Because our emotions tell us what are urgent, what are what we care about and what motivates us. That is how we are biologically programmed. The only skill set I possess that's a little bit different is I. You look at a system, Chad, and know how to build an OS out of it. And like a literal operating system for an organization. George, you know how to build, process, and automate and do all of these things. And Max, you're such a good yeller. Hey, got him, Got him. No, he gets natively understands relationships and all of these different things and how these things come together. Right. I just know how to look at words on a page and go, that's not how a story is structured. I know that my job is best, like I'm most effective when I'm removing things rather than adding things. It's just my skill set. But we all possess the needed skill set to be storytellers. We all possess these things. What happens is we sit down at a keyboard and freak out.

Okay. So, man. No, I'm going to save my question. Max, do you have another question for.

We have six minutes left.

I know you going to say hit your question, George.

I want to make sure you get it out.

So Liz, you, you talked about AI Slop and you talk about like the world of AI and human connection. And actually this might be a two part question. One, does Liz herself use AI in her process?

Yeah.

And two, have you. It's not that easy. You're gonna have to go deeper than that because the question is kind of like, and where do you, as somebody who is like human connection storytelling, where does that fit in. And then my, my maybe part two or second question is like have you found somebody that is doing it right? Meaning their AI assisted content creation and it, it doesn't look. Feel like garbage.

I mean, yeah, I mean first of all, the answer to your question is yes, I don't use it. Everybody has to find out what their relationship is with AI. But like, I think we just, I'm not gonna say over inflated its importance. It's just like it's AI. You have to figure out where it works into your processes. I'm like, it's the same way I figured out how Google Drive works into my processes and how canva works into my processes. Like it's just another thing, right? So when I think about my relationship with it, I just looked at my processes and this kind of happened naturally. What are the low impact activities that take a ton of my time that just make me feel like I want to just tip slowly in front of a car traffic? Like just the things like that. Right. And a lot of it is dumb stuff. It's just like, hey Claude. Hey Chat GPT. Here are four hours worth of transcripts, human transcripts of conversations I've had. Did I miss anything? Like kind of parsing through stuff like things like that just because sometimes literally flipping pages in a transcript gets like really?

Yeah.

Where was that thing again? Like sometimes I ask it dumb questions like what page was that on again that he said that thing? It was very smart. I have it go through like data sets of keywords. I don't bring it into my processes around ideation and writing and drafting. I will sometimes have it go through with like a final draft and say like I'm really trying to optimize around this keyword. Do you see any opportunities where I'm kind of like, I won't immediately blindly accept all the changes, but essentially I just use it like a little assistant. It has, you know, created a, an opportunity for me to spend more time on the high impact work I really love doing because it's helping me with more of like the administration of content strategy, the administration of content at scale. And then also sometimes I'll just be like dumb questions. You know, how many weeks are in Q1, so I know how many weeks of an editorial calendar I need to create. Somehow I always screw that up. But no, it's just, it's little things like that that are really helpful to me. I do have. One of my favorite things I did was I created an enclosed GPTs replicas of my points of contact at certain clients based on like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of interviews. And so I will submit first drafts to them and get their feedback because I have them role play as that person. And I was very curious of how I was going to measure the efficacy. And then I noticed I started having like a massive uptick in one draft approvals doing that.

Nice.

See that's, that's dope right there.

Yeah, but it requires like, you know, thinking. Don't accept everything.

But.

Yeah, yeah, because it's funny because I think a lot of people think about content creation and the AI process of like output, but the fact that, like, you're almost cloning that human to like input and then go from. So that's very. That's. That's a dope example.

Oh, yeah. Well, because most of my clients are super busy. Right? Like, yeah, they believe in what I do, but they're high performing. They're always the busiest people at the organization because they tend to work very closely with C suite. So they're always the people where it's like, I've got them for like that small amount of time and they understood that revision cycles happened. But like, my life has just gotten so much easier with that.

Max. Chad, one more. Let's call it micro question for Liz.

Liz, what's next for you?

Oh, good. I mean, I'm gonna go work with my, my clients I already had. After this, I go to San Antonio next week. Gonna be talking at a conference and then. Yeah, just the usual guys. I'm still gonna be here. I'm still gonna be the nerd. Like this. I'm still me. Fundamentally. That hasn't changed.

Oh, yeah, good.

Thanks, Max.

And you'll actually be seeing us at Inbound this year.

I know.

Yeah.

A live episode.

Nice.

I know.

Micro nano question. I got a little. So this is like just a yes or no? No, it's not. But do you, like, you're talking about how you're using AI?

The DAO is at 50,000 right now.

Chat.

It's at 50,000.

The Dow's at 50,000.

Chat.

Focusing on. Were you here for that episode that we did on Marketing Studio? Liz, you were where we went through. Yeah. And like, do you feel like that that is a user interface that was made by an engineer for a content team or that it's actually useful for a content team because it has like all sorts of.

Cool. That's my last episode and my last question. So I guess I just get to be brutally honest with the exception of the blog tool I have yet to meet a content tool inside of HubSpot that I actually use in my day to day job.

Yeah, but if it was a bigger team, would it be helpful or no?

No, I worked inside big teams. We didn't even use the content calendar in there because it didn't do what we needed it to do.

Wow.

Even more so than that, there was one tool that we really liked and it was the content strategy tool, which then they named the SEO. They renamed it the SEO tool. Yeah, it's not even really that useful anymore. It just. There is a distinct lack. Here's the thing. I'm not sure how much more I want to live inside of HubSpot as a content person. If you're a really well embedded content person inside of an organization, whether you're an army of one or you're inside of a team, you tend to have to be very cross functional. And do you know who hates playing inside of HubSpot a lot? C Suite. There tends to be like recording and stuff that needs to happen outside of it. But I've literally never used any of their research tools to build a content strategy. Like nothing. I don't. There is a part of me that really sometimes wants to ask HubSpot, do you genuinely 100% full chest believe someone like me could do my entire job inside of HubSpot? And if the answer is yes, we need to have a very long conversation.

Yeah, well, and I would almost even ask the question and this isn't my last episode, so love you HubSpot. But I would almost want to ask the question of like, can you show me one of your content people that from A to zed just use HubSpot for this?

I mean, back in the day, even when they had their own content calendar, I remember when they used to do like, they did a lot of their content calendars in Trello. Like even they were using it. Like I just, I don't.

Well, now you got the projects tool or the projects object, so you could use that.

But anyway, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Before we get canceled for forever, which we don't want. Liz, here's my question to you to end this. What are you going to miss most about Mondays at 9:15?

Seeing my friends retiring. This has been really hard. I have grown up so much on this podcast, George. I think you know that more than anybody else.

Yeah.

You know, as long as I've been working for myself, I've been a part of this podcast and there's such a beautiful community here and I really love you Guys, so much late. There have been times I've been having like the worst day somehow. I'm having a bad week and it's like Monday at 8:30, like, you know what I mean? And I would still get to come on here and like for an hour, just like chill out with incredible people who are so smart about what they do. Guys, seriously, sometimes you talk about things. I'm like, I am so glad I have this outline, guys. Talking about like, like, that's why I would always ask, so, like, pretend you're talking to a five year old. Like, what is it?

What is for our listeners.

For our listeners, like up half our listeners. No, it's just a Monday morning. I'm not going to be here next week and that's really hard. And I love you guys and I love the audience and, you know, I'm just really lucky to be here, but I really can't wait to see what you guys do. Like, Georgie and I were talking about this, like, HubSpot has changed so much and I just hope people remember that the fundamentals really shouldn't be changing. But I think you guys are the stewards that this community needs because you need someone who can talk complexity, who can understand it and make it more simplified. So I'm just, I'm really excited to see what you guys do.

But.

Yeah. So hard. Sorry.

Oh, you don't, you don't need to apologize. Max, Chad, final words before I close this out for Liz.

Liz, I just want to say thank you to you. I think if you remember, like the. I. I can't believe if I can't remember if I had privately texted George this or if I had said it while we were on the show. But I remember when you kind of came in to take the reins and heard the cats and, you know, really, you know, help us get our shit together. I remember saying like, oh, this is the first time it's felt like a real show, you know, thank you. And you know, you. You really, you really brought that to this, to this endeavor and I'll always, always appreciate that and thank you for everything you did for us.

I'll miss you losing your mind once a week, Max. It was my favorite way to speak.

Well, you'll still be able to hear me lose my mind. I know there's not gonna be any shortage of that.

So I think she'll be able to hear you all the way where she lives from where you are.

Without listening to the podcast, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, Liz, it's. You're gonna be Missed. I mean, it's been fun and to be on this podcast. I mean, I'm grateful to be here and spend time with such awesome co hosts. And I think, you know, we'll be missing a little bit of grounding, but, you know, we'll. We'll try and do our best to do our own cat hurting for a while.

Yeah, I can't wait to see the first outline that comes out of this, guys.

Oh, yeah,

I'll still be in the. I'll still be in the Slack channel, so if you need me to look at anything, let me know.

There you go. There you go. So I'll say this as a friend. I'll say this as maybe a little bit of a mentor along the way. It has been an absolute joy having you on the show. You made my life way easier for many, many, many episodes of being able to just focus on helping humans and helping humans with HubSpot, with the outlines and the cat herding and just your ability to kind of wrap this a little bit into a story. You will be missed. You are loved. Of course, we will have you back whenever we want to somebody who can just, you know, spit venom at HubSpot or tell us wonderful things about the content, strategies that we should be doing or how people are jacking it up with AI. But yeah, it's. It's a sad moment in Hub Heroes podcast history. But again, thank you, thank you, thank you. Love you too. Now, listeners, by the way, what you just witnessed, believe it or not, was human connection. And the lesson that you should have learned from this. Yeah, we just discovered it. And the lesson that you should learn is probably this simple. Wow. Get back to basics. Okay, Hub Heroes, we've reached the end of another episode. Will Lord Lack continue to loom over the community or. Or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the Hub Heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out in the next episode, make sure you head over to thehubheroes.com to get the latest episodes and become part of the League of Heroes. FYI, if you're part of the League of Heroes, you'll get the show notes right in your inbox and they come with some hidden power up potential as well. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend, leave a review if you like what you're listening to, and use the hashtag Hub Heroes Podcast on any of the socials and let us know what strategy conversation you'd like to listen into next. Until next time, when we meet and combine our forces remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human. And, of course, always be looking for a way to be someone's hero.