HubSpot Loop Marketing | The Evolve Stage

Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed apartments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace Lord Lack? Lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt knowledge. Never fear, Hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask into action and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the League of Extraordinary Inbound Heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute Hub heroes. It's time to unite and activate your powers.

In all seriousness, though, I can't, I can't continue without saying one thing. If you're listening to this, Liz, that shirt. I'm your huckleberry. Oh, my God. I, I, I am a Tombstone fan. I've probably watched Tombstone. I'm gonna guesstimate, like 32 times. And, and 31 and a half of those times was because of Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday. Like, it's just a good movie.

Somebody grabbed a screenshot of this while I share this.

I'm just, I'm just saying, let me, let me see if I can.

When you have free will and you're an adult and have expendable income, I got this for myself. I also have a Val Kilmer one. That's him as Iceman and Napmer, and that's the top.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes. So he's been my boyfriend since I saw him in Batman Forever in 1995.

So, you know, that's funny. That's funny.

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Welcome back to the new year, guys.

Yes, it's good to be back. How's everybody doing?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding we're sponsored by our intro.

I just didn't know where I, I, I didn't know where else to go with that.

How much is that piece of audio paying us?

Yeah, that piece of audio. That's the question.

Why are you deciding right now to become detail oriented? Oh, right now is the moment we choose.

That's crazy.

We're coming in hot after the holidays.

Yeah, crazy work.

All right.

I like detailed oriented, Max.

I'm just flipping my ADHD back on.

You know, it's off for a while.

Ouch. Now we need the Taco Bell bong.

I don't know where it is.

Yeah, it's somewhere in there.

Will Smith one.

Nice.

This is a good combo.

Big summer blowout.

Here we go.

Nice.

Well, gentlemen, I don't know how to tell You.

This.

Well, this is either going to be the last episode of the.

Let's make it the last one.

Second to last.

No, it's the last. No one.

It's the last one.

It could be the last one.

I think as, as the person who has had to write the outlines for the past 8,000 episodes in this series, can we all just go into this from a place of curiosity and not getting my hopes up?

I'm curious.

See what happens. Yeah, let's just see what happens.

Yeah.

Because we've come to the final stage. Good God. We have come to the final stage in loop marketing. Evolve. And that is what we're going to start and. Or finish talking about.

No, no, we're finishing. I, I'm putting a stake in the ground. This is the last episode of the loop marketing. No matter where we get. This is it.

Yep. I appreciate that. So, okay.

Yeah.

Evolve. Here we are. Learn fast, act faster. The new era of marketing won't wait for your quarterly review and neither will your customers. The evolve stage is a live feedback loop using AI to track performance and deliver real time recommendations. Right.

Yeah, we can, we can boil, we can boil this down to two words.

Oh, let's already get started. So. Yeah, you know what, normally I turn this over to George to help us simplify the complex.

Max is fired up.

Let's do it.

Skate better.

Oh wow. Really?

Better. Does no one understand this reference?

No.

Yes, yes, we, we, we, we understand the reference. So, so here's, here's the thing. This is, this is, this is what? This, this stage, out of all of them, make me the most nervous and let me explain why. There's two things that I've seen in the HubSpot ecosystem over the years. One, if you ask somebody what their Achilles heel is in HubSpot, they mention one of two things. Reporting or workflows. Now if you are trying to iterate fast and you are trying to see what's working, you have to be able to do reporting. It can no longer be your Achilles heel. Also, if you're trying to be nimble, automation and making things automatic or automagical is going to be also a pretty cool key piece of this second piece that I've seen in the ecosystem is the amount of humans. I've said, well, have you gotten that certification? Meaning a growth mindset, Meaning wanting to learn how to do the next thing. Well, to evolve, you have to learn. So if reporting is your Achilles heel and if you're so busy in a historical industrial age type job, how are you Growing yourself to evolve the learnings that you're not actually reporting on. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. And can we just say that also there's a new part of this that's entered the room. That is some people understand it, but some people are confused by it. And that is this word that is AI, Artificial intelligence. I can't tell you the amount of conversations I've had in the last 30 to 60 days of somebody calling customer Agent Breeze and somebody calling Breeze customer Agent and not knowing which one is what, and the fact that you can do knowledge vaults. And should they be in Claude, should they be in chat GPT? Should they be in Perplexity? Should they only use Breeze? Should it be on their mobile phone, should it be on the desktop? And so you've got this like. So here's the thing. This is, this is the conundrum we're in. We're about to have a conversation about evolve, being nimble, as Max says, skating better, skate better. Are you, I'm gonna ask you, are you good at reporting? Do you have workflows on lockdown? Are you AI assisted and human powered right now? Because if those three things are missing, it is very hard to enter into this journey of the Evolved stage and not feel shaky.

Well, I think there's another piece of this too, George, because I think, yes, this is not like a yes, but dressed up as a yes. And genuinely what we're having a conversation about here is that we are, and this has been true across every aspect of loop marketing. Right. We're taking disciplines that we're used to doing or should be used. And now we're going up a level. Yeah, but what is interesting about the Evolve section is that typically this, this is basically an iteration cycle, like measure it, manage it, change it. Well, what we're usually used to doing is only having access to reporting data that tells us how we're doing after the fact. Yeah, we make educated guesses, we make strategic decisions, but we don't actually start getting any reporting data until after the campaign is already live. And only then do we have an iteration cycle available to us in the Evolved stage. What I find fascinating about this is that we're actually adding on a new reporting opportunity, which is the predictive piece, the ability to use the AI tools to do predictive performance reporting. So that is just something I want to make sure is clear here. We're not just bringing in new tools to the reporting disciplines that we should have already been doing. Yeah, we are also expanding reporting opportunities into the predictive capacity.

Yeah, and what I. What I think. Yes. And again, not a yes and or a yes, but. But just a continuing of the conversation. Like, listen, it. I did a seven, eight part series just recently with Chris Carolyn about value first humans, and we spent a lot of time talking about signals and paying attention to signals. So, like, how do you have this mindset of reporting historical reporting, potential future and what you see in real time, but also paying attention to signals and it's not reporting, but it is a skill set that needs to start to happen. And there are tools in HubSpot that allow you to do this. But fundamentally we're not. We've not been baked in a way to pay attention to signals. We've been baked in a way to put a form on a page. We've been baked on a way to think about conversions, not conversations.

Right.

And so how. If you're evolving, but you're stuck in the same old ways, then how. How are you truly evolving? I'll give you an example. I love to design. I. I love to develop. I'm a better designer than I am a developer historically. I showed somebody a page this morning on something that I'm working on and said, hey, can I just get your thoughts on that? Their first response was, how in the hell did you do that? Now, I'm not that good. But understanding that we're in a world of AI assisted tools, understanding that I need to take time to learn Claude code, understanding the systems that we can set up with cloud code, and my designer brain to then make that developer assistant do the things that I see in my head, but could never really get on page the right way? All right, I'm going to ask you, are you there? Listener, viewer, Are you there? Like, are you challenging yourself to have the skills? And I don't mean Claude skills, although I could talk for a whole hour about those. Are. Do you have the skills or are you building the skills to evolve in a way that you have to evolve in the day that we live in, not the day that you're coming from? I'll stop.

Max. This is our episode. Check in. How you feeling, bud? Overall, are we off the loop? What's. What's happening here?

Okay, well, here's. Here's what I would like to like. Let's. Let's just be. Can we be authentic? Can we be transparent? Can we be vulnerable for a second?

No. Not allowed.

Yeah, it's not allowed. The four people in this virtual room right now, when you Think about the stuff that you do, the things that you build, the life that you live, professional or personal. How much time do you spend in what you would call an evolved mindset or an evolve face? 10%, 20%, 50%?

I mean, it's constant. I'm constantly making mistakes and I'm constantly learning from them.

Yeah. I would even say, like, at times during a build process, I'm working a bit on an evolve because I'm thinking about how it's going to tie into other stuff. Right. So, I mean, it's like always a sub process running in the background, if you would. Right. It's always kind of like in the back burner because you want to tie it into your existing systems and processes to include previous learnings in the new thing you're building. And a lot of times when you're working on anything new, marketing, workflow, report, anything, it will remind you of something you did before that you didn't employ the technique, and you need to go back and maybe do a little cleanup on that, you know, because you didn't do it so good that one time. Right. Um, so I. I feel like I run into that pretty frequently every time I'm working on a new project.

Yeah. Um, I think also, like, this last stage to me is. I don't want to say that it's. I'm.

I'm the only.

The only reason I struggling with it is like, I almost feel like it's like too basic. Right. In that it's just like, especially amplified. Just like, obviously try to do better, guys, you know what I mean? And like, you know, like, I don't know how much this needs to be like a stage, I guess. Right, Right. Maybe it's a nice reminder of like, always do better, always try to improve. But like, when it says, like, run rapid experiments, right? I mean, isn't that like, you know, again, it's just. It's saying like, you know, a B testing, it's like almost like just a way to kind of like mention like another like, feature. Right. Because, like, you know, in theory, you're doing a B testing when you're amplifying stuff and when you're, you know, tailoring your message and stuff like that, and then it's like, do it again. So, I mean, I don't know, this stage, to me, it feels more like a. Just like, I don't know, a reminder.

Can. Can I tell you? Can I tell you it's hard for.

Me to think about it as a stage because it's just like, you're always kind of doing this. You know what I mean? You're always looking at reporting. You're always, you're always saying, what can we do better? You're always saying, what. What did we learn from. Let me stop. You should be.

Yeah, yeah. I was going to say we're making some assumptions. We're making some assumptions. Yeah.

And I was going to say too, like, are you, are you even if you should be, are you intentional Post each campaign taking a look at what happened with that specific campaign for that specific audience to see how it did and what tweaks can make. I don't always do that. You know, I probably, you know, should, but.

But here's where I'm having trouble with this. Is. Is this anything groundbreaking for some people.

I think it is. So, like, if I. So if I go back. Yeah, if I go back to basics, right. There is something powerful about being intentional with your time. There's something even more powerful about being intentional with your time in the use of asking questions and poking the bear. What changed? Why did it change? What do we need to do next? Why did the customer say that? Why did the customer act that way? If now all of a sudden. I've seen over the last 30 days, four people have referenced that AI should be my CMO. What does that mean that I've been doing? What does that mean that I should continue to do? What does that mean that I should change? Like, how should the process change based on, like, this is the thing, I, I could take this out of a HubSpot conversation. Yes, there are HubSpot tools. Yes, we can talk about AB testing, but it's like, if you think about evolve, what I would want you to Google, what I would want HubSpot to add is like, what are the psychological, physiological, like, emotional things that you should be stopping to think about and do for 30 minutes a day? You know, once a quarter we're like having an evolve meeting because we're going to unpack a whole mess of Stu.

Like, what are the KPIs that you should look at? Right? Like, okay, if I'm thinking about it practically, what's some KPIs that I want to check up on once a quarter per campaign type, right? Or per, you know, different type of thing that I'm trying to work on or maybe even per. Per medium. Like this is like industry benchmarks for, you know, social post, engagement in your industry and that kind of stuff. Right? And so like having a little bit of some of that, that's more quick access where it brings Everybody into alignment, where you're like, we want to do this or better.

Right.

If we could, you know, sometimes it could be KPI based, I think would be helpful.

Liz, what. What are your thoughts? We're waxing a lot stuff.

No, I do have thoughts here. On the one hand, I think we're feeling a little bit of whiplash, given how packed Amplify is. And this is where I'm actually going to make an argument to say I kind of get why the stage is here. This is one of those things where if you are inbound practitioners, like, we are, like, this is our job. We have been doing this for a.

Decade or a long time.

Right. Of course we're measuring and managing. Of course we're measuring and managing. But I've also worked at places where they do not do that. They think they do and they do not. The other piece of this that I think makes it critical, I think if it were just a generic. Well, once you run your campaigns, use AI to take a look at how they did and then make some changes. Yeah. Then I think we're having a different conversation. Then it's kind of like, that's just reporting, but they've added this predictive piece to it, which I think is something of a new discipline. Also, if we just want to be corporate, this is a product playbook. They want to make sure we're using all the little product.

Of course.

Yeah.

So I think it's one of those things where it's like, that would be like if somebody told me, well, you know, you have to make content. Now, granted. Did they put it in the wrong stage and shouldn't.

No.

Here we go.

But. No, but what I'm saying is, like, it would be like if somebody were to say, oh, well, just whenever you get your content strategy, you know, just put it in.

We needed a five.

It's the same with reporting. It's the same with. It is a discipline. It is a critical component that gets overlooked. Reporting strategy is very important. I just think also, like, can we just talk about being in that room for loot Marketing? And they're like, how many stages in Amplify? 25. All right, next stage. Evolve. How many? We got three. Excellent. We love equity.

Well, but here's. But here's my thing. I wonder if there should be more than three. Right? So, like, ladies and gentlemen, humans, my fellow humans, I'm gonna ask you a question because I believe in the power, again of questions. Do you have some type of evolve. I'll use that word because that's the stage we're talking about. Scorecard. Like, do you have some type of scorecard that you're paying attention to when it comes to your individual campaign, your quarterly growth, your yearly go? Like, like what? Do you have a scorecard that you can use and people can look at? And is the organization on the same team? And is that scorecard built in a way that it's helping you to diagnose, decide, and then systematize what you're doing moving forward? By the way, you might want to write those three words down in 2026, you should be diagnosing, deciding, and systematizing the thing moving forward. Listen, I, I blew my own mind yesterday because I was working with Claude code in the in. But by the way, I'm not a nerd. I've never, I mean, I'm kind of a nerd, but I've never used terminal. Hang on.

Okay, not a nerd.

I mean I'm, I'm kind of a nerd, but I've never used terminal a day in my life. And over the last 30 days I've been in Terminal and know what WSL CD, you know? Anyway, all of these, I know these things now and yesterday talking about systems, because we should be taught you, yes, you should set goals, yes, you should have great habits, yes, you should be evolving and growing yourself over time. But you need to build systems to follow to do that. Okay, so that, that's why I'm leaning into this. Diagnose, decide, and then systematize. Yesterday I literally built a cloud code skill after using Claude code to do a system where I said these words, listeners. Can you do this right now? Cloud code? Can you please find said person in my portal? Can you then please create a deal for said person and associate it to the contact and company? Please add this product as a line item, give it a $500 discount and then can you go ahead and make that into a quote that and, and I watched the things just like in my HubSpot portal, all right? And I was like, this is the dopest stuff ever. Because what I used to spend probably like 15, 20, 30 minutes doing just happened in two minutes. Why? Because I scored myself. I suck at creating quotes. I hate creating quotes. You know who's good at creating quotes? It even wrote the comments and terms. I had to tweak it a little bit. Human powered AI assist listed. Yeah, wrote the comments in terms and like I had, within seven minutes I had a quote out done. And so like, but I have to score myself. What Is your products look like in your HubSpot portal right now? What is your, quote, template look like in HubSpot right now? How have you set yourself up to iterate and automate the things that you suck at, historically? What scorecard are you using so that you can actually diagnose if you suck or not, decide what to change about it, and build a system moving forward? Okay, I'll shut up. I'll shut up.

How are you, buddy?

I'm good, I think I'm preparing a graphic for LinkedIn.

Oh. Oh, God, I'm nervous.

Sums up the way the final version of Hellbacks looks at the. Looks at the Loop de Loop.

Whoopsie.

Do we get a sneak preview? You want to talk us through it?

Well, right now it just says, express onboard your AIs so they can make content about your shit.

Oh, geez.

Taylor says make a bunch of lists. Sorry. Segments of people you're gonna make content for, amplify, do all of the work. Evolve is gonna say, skate better.

Oh, Lord. Only because I like, don't cancel us. I'm smart. I like to summit.

I like to. I like to. But I mean. But am I wrong? Am I wrong?

Well, I mean, kind of.

You only have to train the AI one time, and then it's about using the AI to empower you to express better. Yeah.

Do all the work. But I mean, kind of is do all the work.

There's a lot of work in there.

There's a lot of work, but there's a lot of work onboarding. But that makes me onboarding your content agent properly. That is a feat in itself. Right? What?

See, here's the thing that's frustrating the hell out of me right now is that I feel like there's the conversation that could be had that if you did more work here, evolve, you could do less work there, or at least you'd be doing the right work. Because let's be honest with ourselves. How many times have we done work and been like, well, that was a real show?

Like, no, I feel. I fully agree with that.

Yeah. Oh, totally.

Yeah.

So, I mean, everything you do and evolve is going to make the subsequent passes through everything else much easier.

So why do we spend so little intentional time in it? Like, Chad, you literally caught. I have a sub agent that runs in the back of my brain that's always kind of thinking about, but, like, shouldn't it be like a main agent? Like, should. I don't know.

When I say skate better again, it's. It's just. It's it's emphasizing the essence and the spirit of the evolve stage.

Yeah.

Right.

It's always, there you go, I'll keep up with you.

You're always trying to do better. Right. And, and this is where you make it an intentional part of your strategy. Yeah. To make a commitment to do that. Right.

Yeah.

And you have all, I think, this wonderful data at your fingertips. Whether it's just raw reporting numbers that you're looking at, whether it's a campaign that you're looking at, whether. Whether it's. You're asking your AI to kind of break down maybe this larger data set that you can't quite wrap your head around. Right. But these are all the things that you're doing in order to make sure that your subsequent passes. Doing all this stuff because this loop never stops. That's why they made it an infinity symbol. It's a never ending process. Right. That you're constantly iterating on. I think we might look at this and say, oh. I mean, I might look at this and say, oh, this seems like a pretty obvious thing. Right. But now that we've kind of talked through it, even if it is just serving as a reminder and saying, hey, take a minute.

Intentional.

Be sure. Yeah, be sure you're intentional about catching your breath and looking at what's happening. Because the last thing you want is a runaway freight train powered by AI just creating a bunch of slop that you're not keeping any sort of track about track of because you're. There's a. See right there is this new world where the old problem is not creating any content at all. The new problem is creating a ton of AI shit that's doing nothing and not working well and maybe hurting you. Right. So you have to be intentional and watch it and like make sure you're not kind of breaking something. Right. You know, So I like that it's there, right?

Yeah. I think it makes sense to like button it up. It just, it is like, I think, like Liz said, it's jarring when it comes from like do a lot of things with a lot of bullet points. Because there's a lot of tools that tie into amplify.

Right.

There are so many things inside of HubSpot, outside of HubSpot that you can do with Amplify. Right. But with Evolve, you know, just getting in there and really understanding what does it mean to skate better is like crazy. And if you haven't tried it before, if you're like a ChatGPT user, the deep research connector takes like 15 minutes. But if you get some good consistent prompts and it goes and researches your HubSpot, if you haven't connected your HubSpot, you get deep research connector. That's pretty cool. Now if you're like, you know, George was talking about, you were talking about CLAUDE code before, right? Yeah. Well, if you just get the HubSpot MCP server and hook it up to Claude, you don't even need CLAUDE code, you don't need terminal, you just need to put like a private app token in a config file for CLAUDE to access your MCP server. And it can actually from CLAUDE desktop jump into and do all the things that George was talking about, even outside of CLAUDE code, inside of the Claude desktop app. So there's a lot of ways that you can really get some cool visibility and execution on a lot of things inside of HubSpot from your AI assistants. And then I think sometimes people don't even remember that, you know, there's a separate pre built marketing analytics and some pre built marketing reports in the reporting section to base your stuff off of. If you're trying to bring yourself back into using as many standard HubSpot properties as possible, wherever you can. This is like a fundamental foundation. Always try and make sure you're using as many of those standard properties, unless you have a good reason not to, because all of those default reports are based on them and if you, you know, store similar things in other properties, you'd be breaking the system. Right. And then them reports don't work no more and ain't nobody got time for that. But anyway, there's, there's a lot of. Yeah, there's a lot of like really good tools that exist already in the system. And I think if I go back from HubSpot's kind of perspective and just at least give them the benefit of the doubt of where they're, where they're coming from is like we have a whole bunch of junk now in our system that not everybody uses all of and we want to put all of the tools in the order that we feel like they should be used. If you wanted to do this and improve your processes, kind of like last.

Question around this is this.

Yeah.

Is do them like, are they doing a disservice by presenting this as a linear 1, 2, 3, 4 step process?

That's actually where I was starting to get a little bit weird about this because the more that we're talking about evolve, I'm like, wait a minute, so you're telling me I'm going to Complete everything in amplify before I even begin to think about iteration. Yeah, you're going to like.

I almost feel like it should just be a circle again instead of the infinity. Even like the infinity thing. Kind of like confused. Like it, I, I mean you could.

Just have a circle with four stops. It's the same thing. If you have a circle with four stops instead of a circle case, then.

It'S just a flywheel again.

You know what I mean?

Right. But you know, like, it's, it's cyclical.

Why don't they just attach it to the flywheel?

I know.

Just another ring in there, huh? Yeah.

Well, no, like, just say like some spinner rims. We need some.

George said we would get through this in one episode. That was so cute. Looking forward to seeing you next week about nobody.

No, no, no cutting it here.

It's, it's done here. Good.

Like, I feel like we've, we've cooked this goose.

Yeah. This, this the Loop marketing. We're done with this conversation. I'm sure maybe it'll drizzle back in, but at, at the end of the day, and I'm not, I'm not ending the episode, but at the end of the day, like, you know, this is, this is a very vital piece. It feels like it could have and should have more weight as HubSpot moves forward and bakes this out a little bit more. That was fun. It's the beginning of the year and there's all sorts of technological issues because now Chad is elgato. But anyway, Anybody need an emotional support cab? I thought you were gonna have muffins. Emotional support muffins would be, would be good anyway. Yeah.

Well, let me ask this as we begin to slowly land the plane.

Yeah.

How are we all feeling at the end of this teen episode journey?

I don't know if it's 18.

Journey.

It wasn't 18. It was like 36.

Wow.

We've done 174 episodes on Loot marker.

And the Bible ain't got nothing on us, baby.

Guys, it's 2030. Nah. Yeah. The Ampersand. Oh my God.

That's so cool. The tesseract flywheel inbound 2050. Ampersand marketing. Introducing the Pentagon.

It's a jump. Two conclusions, Matt. All right, guys, how are we feeling?

I feel great.

Listen, it's, it's been a fun journey. I think there's been some very interesting conversations. I, I, I hope that it's been helpful to the humans who have listened along the way. I'm sure there's micro tips that they can pull out. I, I'm, I'm trying to think about putting all these episodes kind of in together into one page and, and see, I'm, I'm actually really curious when I put all of these episode transcriptions into my loop marketing assistant that I have built months ago when we started this journey.

It'll just spit out a word.

No, I'll be interested to see what it spits out as like a, as a draft for me to like, then try to figure out what to do with. But, you know, I, I think there's. I think there's some very important things to pay attention to. I think that we, because of who we are, made some large assumptions along the way. And again, at least we're having the conversation at a deeper level than everybody who was trying to cover it in a six minute or less video, which was like, not even possible. Yeah, that's.

You know, I just want a super cut of every time Max went in the whole conversation. And It'll be like 45 minutes long or you know, you know, you know, you know.

Yeah.

Tell no.

To make a super cut of my frustration. No noises. Yeah.

Oh, geez. Yeah.

Of every. Every time Max crashed out. I need a. I need a. I need a super cut of that.

That crash cut went out.

I think I did. I definitely crashed out more than multiple times. Any.

Any other, Any other topic.

Ever done.

Any other topic. I've never seen so many crashes.

Yeah. Yeah. It was really cathartic for me, actually. I think I got a lot out. It worked well.

There you go. A lot of stuff then. It was good. It was good.

It was great. It's good for me. Oh, sometimes you just need to crash out.

Yeah.

Honestly, as long as you don't have to put an insurance policy out. Here are my feelings on it. I feel great and not great at the same time. Interesting as you can tell, because I just got fuzzy. I feel great and not great at the same time. This is clearly something where. Hold on. The fact that I'm fuzzy is driving me crazy. Yeah. Nope.

You know, your audio isn't fuzzy, so people listening can still hear you crystal clear.

That's great.

Yeah. Fuzzy wuzzy.

It's clear that they were making a product playbook and we're fine with that. That's fine. I just can't get over how not sustainable this playbook is. It should like, did it need to be four simple steps or could it have just been a really banging resource center that takes you through different disciplines and actually has equitable, broken down steps. Like the amplify to evolve drop off is crazy and should be studied to our point in this very episode. Evolve is something that should be happening along the way. Like you're not just doing it at the campaign level. I am also taking a look at data in content pieces. How are they performing? Like reporting and data gathering and iteration is something that should be kind of part of the DNA of everything that you're doing. And that's just one example. Again, I understand the why behind this and I sure I can hear Chris Caroline screaming somewhere, but I'm just not getting it. But here's the thing. It's a both and situation. I get why we are here. I get why we are here. The execution of this is crazy. And as the content person, I'm just gonna say this outright. Oh yeah, just go build a content strategy and then do 18 other things and amplify the stuff that we were talking about in tailoring your message. They're creating all this brand new language for two very simple documents. A brand messaging strategy and a content style guide. And then they don't even give you the real tools to develop those. Like, content continues to show itself as the black box of HubSpot. They have the customer platform to get all of it done. They tell you to build all of these assets, but like, there's nothing about building brand messaging strategies, nothing really about building a voice and tone style guide. Because, George, you've been through that process with me.

Yeah.

HubSpot gives you the opportunity to put all the outputs of those things in, but they don't tell you how to get those outputs. Yeah, same thing with content. Yeah, I am, I'm waiting for 12. It's been 12 years for them to show us how to build a full funnel content strategy. I've taught myself how to do it. I know how to do it. But like a new inbound marketer, you literally just gave them go build a content strategy. Okay, so you have to learn how to talk to sales. You have to learn to talk to your rev team. You have to learn to do keyword research. You have to learn how to do sales enablement content. Then you have to learn how to balance that all out in a great 90 day roadmap.

I mean, listen, I, I, I have great empathy, but cannot fathom if today is somebody's day one at their new marketing job.

There you go.

Oh my God, like, I just don't even know.

I went. You know that moment when you're playing like, finally lands and like, yeah, you realize it's not going to do the wobble thing and like go off the Runway and it's like you feel the brakes. You are, and you're slowing down. You're like, I made it. That's how I feel right now.

Yeah.

Loop Marketing that whole, that whole series was just a rough, bumpy flight.

That was a flight.

I don't know if we were going to make it, but we did.

There was turbo here, but now we can get off the plane and go get our local coffee. Okay, Hub Heroes, we've reached the end of another episode. Will Lord Lack continue to loom over the community, or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the Hub Heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out. In the next episode, make sure you head over to thehubheroes.com to get the latest episodes of and become part of the League of Heroes. FYI, if you're part of the League of Heroes, you'll get the show notes right in your inbox and they come with some hidden power up potential as well. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend, leave a review if you like what you're listening to, and use the hashtag hubbyroes podcast on any of the socials and let us know what strategy conversation you'd like to listen into next. Until next time, when we meet and combine our forces, remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human. And of course, always be looking for a way to be someone's hero.