Don Spafford From Corporate Finance World Proves Success to Build Wealth Where You Play

Are you one of the many busy professionals working in offices day in and day out? Do you wonder how some people grow their wealth fast, retire early and play on work days? Well, you're in luck because Ginny Bolling hosts this show Pivots of Prosperity where she interviews people that can do just that play on work days. Many guests have become financially free. She also interviews people that are on their journey and people that are in support roles like attorneys, contractors, brain brokers and others. Commercial real estate is the common element. She is on a mission to be sure. Busy professionals know they can own substantial commercial properties too, like apartments, self storage facilities and others and not have to do the work managing them. Passive investing is the key. Syndications are the typical method. Tax write offs are some of the biggest rewards. Ginny and partners find the deals, build a strong team and business plan, then offer the investment opportunities to passive investors. New episodes are released every Tuesday at 12, so watch for new releases. If you want to get involved, let us know. You need to get pre qualified to hear about most.

Hello, hello. Jenny Bowling here with Pivot to Prosperity brought to you by Pivotal Real Estate Investments where we help investors build wealth and income through commercial real estate that improves communities. And today we have Don Spafford as our guest and thank you for coming on Don. Appreciate it.

Thank you Jenny. My pleasure to be here.

I have had the pleasure of talking a bit before we go live and I want you to go ahead and introduce yourself and then we're going to hit right away on some topics. Okay?

Okay, sounds good. So yeah, my name is Don Spafford. As you mentioned, I live in southeast Idaho, very close to Yellowstone park, which is, it's a great location. Part of what led to what we'll be talking about today, I think my background I've, I went to school at the University of Nebraska, Omaha, sits right next door to Warren Buffett and I graduated with four majors, Finance, banking, investment science and portfolio management and accounting planning to become a financial advisor. But unfortunately I finished that degree around 2008. So there was all those jobs were apparently disappearing at that time, which was unfortunate. But I can't complain where I'm at today. Probably in different places that would have come to fruition. So but I am a today I'm a partner on actually a few different teams or groups through that do devils like syndications or, or work with private lenders, private money. One is I work with, you know, beyond your holdings which is RV resorts, campgrounds, marinas. Another one I do is uh, legacy wealth, uh which is, uh, built to rent, uh, multifamily. Uh, I also work with a business acquisition fund and I work with private lenders for new home construction as well. So I kind of keep myself busy with several different things and offering different opportunities for investors because obviously, as we all know, not everybody fits into the same square. We'll say so. So, so I tried to have options for, for investors to find what best fits their needs. But yeah, so that's kind of just really roughly who I am and what I do.

We didn't talk about those four things. That's, that's really cool. But we're going to end up probably talking about all four. This might be a long interview, but anyway, I, I, yeah, really appreciate what you're, what you're doing and, and everybody can see your backdrop there. And that invest where you play really resonates. We were talking about that because I love pickleball and tennis and horseback riding. And so I've been trying to find those people that like to invest in commercial real estate so they can play more pickleball and tennis. Right, right.

Yeah. Well, we have, we do have a lot of pickleball courts and horseback riding and maybe some tennis that are campgrounds. So definitely go to RV camping and you can do those things and have fun outdoors. Yeah.

I'll have to check out your, yeah, your stuff there for sure. And we didn't actually talk about. If you want to focus on that mainly or course the, the business acquisitions. I'll need to talk with you more about that another time because we're, we don't have time. That's so different.

No problem. Yep.

So big right now. I mean, and we are looking at buying some, some businesses right now. But, but the focus for today is going to stay real estate. But that's really cool that you do that. And then you're also, you said you're a private lender for new home construction.

So I, it's not. And I'm a private lender, but I work with private lenders like, so I'll take their money to build new homes and provide them a, you know, very strong return for their short term loan.

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. All right, well. And the legacy wealth. Build to rent.

Yeah. Are you multifamily?

It's multi family. Okay, you read my mind. Okay. So do you want to talk. Let's talk the campgrounds first.

Yeah, good.

Okay, tell us, tell us what exactly you're investing in for campgrounds.

Yeah, so we, we purchase rv. So. So just to be some clarification. Here. I don't usually use the term like RV park. Like a lot of people say it's RV park. For me, that, that term I guess is more aligned with like a, almost like a mobile home park in a sense where people live there long term year round. Very different than what we do with the RV resorts, RV campgrounds and marinas. So we are very strong in the, the outdoor hospitality. So it's kind of much more geared towards what we call transient campers. People say, you know, go out for a weekend or you know, to take a vacation, to go somewhere and have some fun, then you go back home. So you're not actually living there typically, at least not more than you might get some seasonal campers, right, People that like your snowbirds for winter and summer kind of stuff. But, but for the most part, the majority of our guests are very short term, like, you know, a week or less. So we cater to those types of, you know, weekend getaways and people who can just have some fun outdoors go and, and, and play like, you know, like I said, the term investor, you play. We're not just going there to camping, but they're going pickleball or you know, riding jet skis or you know, playing the aqua park or you know, doing something outdoors and having fun, having a good time. And of course while they're there, they'll not only spend the money to, to stay there, but they'll pay to say, you know, rent those equipment or, or you know, play on the aqua park or rent a golf cart to drive around, you know, buy some food. All these different things that will bring additional income to the property. And so that's kind of what we really focus on with that. And of course with our investors, we are purchase them like a syndication like you would any other syndication, if those are. Hopefully every listening is familiar with what that means. But, but we do our value add very similar to like a value add multi family, but we're not, you know, replacing carpets and appliances and painting. We typically. Most of our value add comes from expansion. You know, we'll do our general stuff, of course, you know, general cleanup, improvements in the property, adding on some additional amenities. But, but the big value add comes from expanding. So we want to find the property that's already doing very well, has a strong, you know, strong occupancy, stronger numbers and demand that we can say, okay, there is enough demand to justify adding on more sites or adding on a marina or something that can therefore bring a lot more revenue and increase the value of the property to give back great returns to our investors. So. So yeah, that's kind of what I do with that.

That's very cool. So have you personally had to get involved with adding on a marina going all through, all through the permitting?

So yeah, we. Well we, we have. Well, first of all, we have one that already had a marina, but we expanded that marina even more. That's like in the Ozarks area of Missouri. On that one we've got another one of our properties where we are, I'd say in that we just purchased it, you know, recently. So we're looking to not only expand the RV side but also add on the marina. So we've already got to think the approval from the, the local council to, to do it. We're just getting finalizing everything else with it. So. So yeah, it's, it's. You know, luckily in our cases, most times we haven't had to run too much issues. Some of these ones, like for example, the one like I said, the big marina in Missouri, it's actually on a land lease with the Army Corps of Engineers. So sometimes you have to go through a bit longer process to go through government stuff. Actually the other one that I was talking about, there's two hospitals, the Tennessee Valley Authority. So uh, either way the, the government agencies tend to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but luckily this was. A lot of this was already on that one we bought. Uh, a lot of that was already done ahead of time from the previous owner that was already getting those approvals before we purchased it. So it made it a lot easier for us just kind of step in and, and take over and make some changes. But, but yeah, so it's interesting because.

I, after I asked you that I was thinking, well, you're inland, you're not going to have all the messes we have here in the coastal stuff. But yeah, but lakes and all the rest of it. Yeah. Can really still be complex. So. Yeah, interesting. But yeah, I would think that it can be an awful lot of fun at your places. Now do the. You have to drive in the RV or do you have RVs there available to rent?

So we. Yeah, we don't. Well so no, we don't. We don't rent the RVs. But we do have like some cabins. What's word? Well, yeah, we have cabins too, obviously. Well yeah, for those that you don't have to. An RV to go there. You can stay at a cabin, you can rent, you know, the cabin. We should do have some tent sites as well so you could Get a tent. I said we do have with like some other third party companies that, that do rent RVs. You can kind of range it through us with them to, to get an RV to rent and have it there on site ready for you if you want to do that and have the actual RV kind of stay. So there, there are lots of things you can do for sure. But yeah, we don't just cater to only RVers. Yeah, there's cabins, there's some of. A couple of our properties have hotels on them as well. So there's, there's multiple options to come and stay and play.

So yeah, I'm going to have to get a list of your properties because it sounds like it could be really fun to go to do that.

Yeah.

And another big comparison is when you're doing multifamily, of course most of your income is on the rent and the other income is not nearly as big as yours. Prob really is. You, you probably especially on the big parks have quite, quite the income on the other revenue source line. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely you know, obviously each, each, each campground is, is different and unique in its own right. And you know, different amenities, different things. But, but yeah, there's some of the ones like then you know they have like a big lake or water park or something on it. You can do probably just as much not more income from like say selling day passes to get access to do all this stuff than just the RV sites alone. So. So y. Very quite high revenue. Yep. And there's. I know there's other. None of ours like but there, there are some I know of that maybe like they have like a, a big restaurant on site as well. They do a lot of monies from the restaurant and things. So that's for us something new we're getting into. We've. We've had some sites where we've. We've basically rented out the building to, to a restaurant operator not running it ourselves. But that is something we just actually just launched in the last couple months one of our sites. We decided to open up our own restaurant on site. So we're kind of doing a slow launch. We did like first breakfast, then we added L. So we're kind of slowly building up to make sure we get things handled properly and not just go all in and waste a bunch of time and money. But yeah, eventually that could be a great new revenue source as well. Doing full meals. We've always had of course had snack stuff like chicken strips or sandwiches and stuff, but not a full on restaurant just because that was too much we didn't want to take on. But we're testing it out now in one of our locations and if it all goes well and we get the kinks figured out, we'll eventually add that onto. It's a lot of our properties as well as like a, you know, branded restaurant versus something else outside, you know.

So anyway, are you the main one sourcing these deals and negotiating the deals and operating the deals or are you working with others most of the time that are doing different?

Yeah, yeah, I've got, I've got a team. Luckily. Yeah, there's no way I could handle all that myself. So yeah, we've got, we've got, you know, one basically our acquisitions team, we'll say we've got maybe one guy that's in charge of that really to kind of source and find new deals. Of course we do get stuff sent to us all the time. As people hear us know who we are. We get sent lots of different opportunities. But most of our properties that we purchase, we find ourselves off market doing our own cold calling, basically calling up campgrounds and talking to owners and you know, find the ones that want to discuss selling and kind of go from there. Then we've got our other, my other partners since you run handle the day to day operations mostly to kind of oversee the, the general managers because each, each site of course has a general manager on site that's kind of running the, the day to days and overseeing the employees and people there. But then we have on our corporate side, right, we're kind of more oversight to kind of oversee the managers and the operations, someone else to kind of oversee the, the, you know, I guess we'll say like the plans, the, the, the pay the bills and that kind of stuff. Right. So yeah, we've got a full team to kind of handle all the different parts of it. And I'm, I'm mostly overseeing the communications, investor relationships and that side of things.

Okay. Yeah, it sounds, sounds like it'd be fun. And what we can do is in the show notes if you want, attach some links to show pictures of some. But so great, great, great. That's, that's fun stuff again, like you say invest where you play. So. Yeah, the part we didn't talk about is your background as a Cub Scout, Boy Scout leader and all that. You went all the way through, right. And then you get your logo part of that. Talk on that a little bit, would you?

Sure, yeah. So I grew up in Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts myself. I was an Eagle Scout and then later on I became a Scout Master, eventually a Cub Master and we lose leader as well. So I've always kind of been involved in scouting in some way. My dad was as well at an older age himself. But, but yeah, it wasn't I guess on purpose to say to incorporate like a campfire as part of the logo. But but yeah we want to make sure that you know a logo of course as everybody knows that the logo says something right. So it makes it easier to recognize that it's got something to do with outdoors or camping. And so so we like you know, very simple easy logo that kind of portrays what we're doing I guess in a sense that has to do with, with camping.

So now do you invite Scouters, Scouts, scout troops I guess to your, your campgrounds or do it in any way cater to them?

Yeah, well definitely, you know Scouts like any other group or people are all welcome at any of our campgrounds. Like I said we, we typically do still keep some tent camping sites open for, for those that need or want to do tent camping which usually you do with Scouts. Even myself growing up as, as a kid I several of our over campouts were at campgrounds and even myself as a scout master oftentimes we would take boys uh camping at official campgrounds as well. So just makes it easier having like some, some, some at least some amenities we didn't quite go to like, like what we're doing these RV campgrounds with full on tons of activities because they'd probably been too distracted for everything but, but at least some you know, basic stuff. You got a bathroom and things to use, you know. So it definitely can be a convenience for sure to have you know here to groups like Scouts and things where you're not out in the wilderness all alone. You've got some kind of sense of you know, modernization there and safety we'll say especially these days you kind of have more safety is kind. That's what they're stuff they were like you know, 30, 40 years ago. But, but yeah they're you know scout groups, church groups, you know, youth groups, all those things are all welcome. And then do use our properties for sure.

I bet. Yeah. You actually almost need to have an area that it where all the fun stuff isn't so obvious so they can learn what they need to about nature. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well it does tend to be that the camping, the tent campus sites do tend to be on the further end away from us because you know people of course pay that Premium to be close to those things anyway. And so, you know, the tent campus can take up those spaces. So you want to keep the tent camps a bit outside of everything else. Yeah, gotcha.

It makes sense. Makes sense. Okay, so talk to us about your build to rent stuff and where that is.

Yeah, so just to clarify, again, totally different separate group than Beyonder. Each of these things are.

That's good.

Unique groups, unique partners, so we can all focus on different things. Right. So, and, but being of course what I do with the investor relations and, and the communications overall, it doesn't really take a whole lot of time like the daily operations. I'm still of course busy literally every day talking to investors and different things, sending out newsletters, but, but it's not quite the same when you're, you know, some kind of problem comes up, your whole day gets spent on trying to fix a problem. Right. So I'm not luckily involved with that stuff so much. So I have time then to be helping different groups, different things. For me, what kind of led to each of these though is I like, I'm drawn to things that are unique and exciting, maybe a bit different than what everybody else does. So when something that gets me excited comes up and I can get involved some way, I try to get involved and then of course share that with other investors that I know are just like me, looking for something different, unique, and maybe higher returns or something. So these built to rent projects actually came up before I got involved with Beyonder. It's some a. Who's my partner right now? I first met him early on when I was still buying fourplexes and you know, he actually connected, contacted me and asked me to, to invest in the project he was doing here at the time, building some, some townhomes. And so when I later got involved with them back in like early 2021, they had another project going on that was, was they came back and approached me again to, to invest in this project they were doing. And I was like, you know what, maybe I can help you guys and I can actually help bring more, more capital to your deals. And so that kind of led to a discussion. That's how I eventually got involved with them. And then I'm actually mentioned myself because before this they'd always been done like built to sell it, build these town communities and sell them all. And I was like, why do, why don't we just hold these? You know, why keep selling everything else? Let's build them and hold them to eventually build up more income, more wealth. So eventually you can even stop building. So that's kind of when they realized, yeah, they're actually right. We could switch this to build rent model, pay a lot less taxes than they were paying for all these things they were selling and build up a lot more wealth in the long run. So that's kind of how that kind of came up. And almost like immediately after we had that discussion, this opportunity came up to this large development where I'm at in Idaho and we've got another large development in progress right now out of state as well. And so is turning into be a very profitable opportunity for investors in that, yeah, there's no cash flow up front right away obviously, because you got to build it, but it's much more of a very large appreciation factor. You're going to be able to build a lot of wealth, long run. And the way we have these structured is that it takes us maybe a few years to build up a few hundred doors and then we're going to get those leased out and rent them out for a full year or so and then get it refinanced. So that point we'll refinance it, be able to provide back the investors all their invested capital back to them so they get all their money back, but then still hold equity in that deal going forward essentially forever is the goal. So you're not in and out in five years, have to find something else to do. You can actually set up a long run, long term income stream that of course will go up over time as cash flows go up. But also we plan to refinance them every maybe seven or ten years or something to continuously pull out more cash to give back to investors, to kind of keep investing or using that to live off of or whatever, to just hold that essentially again that we say, quote, unquote forever. We can't really say how long exactly it's going to be, but I'd say at least 20 or 30 years is kind of the goal. Maybe around the time it needs a lot of rehab, then we'll say, okay, now it's time to sell it to a value add by looking to buy it, you know, so. So yeah, that's kind of what we're doing that. And again, I like that model. Attracted me a lot just because I saw that as like essentially for me it'd be like my retirement plan. I was like, if. So we didn't talk about this either, I guess. But I did quit my corporate job at the end of 2022. So I was like, I'd always planned at that point, prior to that anyway, that I was going to, you know, fund my retirement with real estate. I already had that figured out. But, but I was like, aside from just the cash flows and things coming from, from doing deals, I was like, this is a great opportunity as well for myself even just to build up a tremendous amount of wealth in the next, you know, 20, 30 years without having to continually do new deals and things because it's going to just be there, you know, growing and expanding. And so, so I got, I like that a lot. And of course I can pass it on to my, my children as well. And so we bring in investors that same kind of, kind of thought where they don't want to just be always looking for new deals. They want to have something in they can just let sit and kind of like, you know, the set it and forget it kind of, you know, infomercial things, you know, and, and let it just grow their wealth over time and, and not worry about it, you know. So, so yeah, so I like that a lot for that reason too. That's good.

Now tell me what cities they're in.

Well, so I, I can't give too much information on, on the, the new one because it's, at least for now, so give me a 5, 6B. But you know, we do have something coming up here. But, but definitely the one we have is actually right now where I live in Idaho Falls, Idaho. So we got a big project right here in Idaho Falls, Idaho. We've already got it essentially funded for, for the Easter phase, one part anyway, so it's not currently open for investors. But, but yeah, that's, it's a great deal that came out a few years ago and we got through. It's a long process. Of course it's been great for me to learn as well because I'm not a developer, but working close hands with developers that are going through stuff, I get to learn all the, the steps and things that are involved and what's really great about this. And then, and I think something we're, we plan to try to do with any future build rent as well as find cities that are willing to work with us to provide opportunities for tax incentives or tax rebates like the one we have here, it's going to give us a huge tax rebate which basically reverses all the infrastructure costs like for the roads, utilities, that kind of stuff. So what that means is for the investors, that means more cash flow, more, more, more income because we're not spending, you know, hundreds of thousands of Dollars a year on, on taxes. We're saving that and goes back to the cash flow. So, so that's a great opportunity there and that's kind of like the, the plan going forward for all of our future deals as well where the other one. We're also working on a similar thing with the city and.

Yeah, so, so what's your buy box.

For those? Of course we want to find land that first of all we can get at a discount. We're not, you know, typically are not buying on market. We'll say land. Unless you know, whatever reason, it's just a great location, maybe it might be worth it. But, but, but so far at least the ones we've been in. The one here in Idaho is actually that the city actually called up my, my partner, the developer to see if he wanted to take it because they had a different, it's kind of funny, they had a different out of state buyer who's actually pretty well known. I want to mention names here but he, he was, he actually called the one to buy the land. But then the city called up my, my partner and was like hey, this, this guy that we don't know fat of state wants to buy this land but if you'd like it, we'd prefer to keep it here local. So he was like yeah, I'll take it. So we got a great deal on that land and, and of course, which why they're I think even more willing to work with us to get these tax rebates and other things that they've pushed through and pushed whole thing through the council with no objections ever. And then, so from, but then we started looking, you know, where else is up and coming things happening, where's road growth happening. And that led us to, to Texas and we located an opportunity for some, some land that was also kind of one of those opportunities with just this land sitting there in the middle of the city that's just never been developed for whatever reason. And the city is looking for some kind of great opportunity and we kind of showed them the plan we were doing here in Idaho which, which I'll mention too, there's not just. These aren't like just pure buildings and concrete. Right. We have a lot of open green space, walking trails, splash pads, all this kind of stuff that makes it a great fun community and of course beautifies the city. Right. Makes it attractive to have people come there. So we showed the city here, you know, similar what we're doing here in Idaho and, and they were like we love this. We want this in our city too. So, so they were also along those lines, willing to work with us to, to make things happen and make sure that that takes place. And so we're, we're, we're about a year out from, from breaking ground there. But, you know, we're definitely in that process right now to get that approval from the city for the tax rebates. Initially, it wasn't even something what we, we even brought up, but after we got the one here in Idaho, we mentioned it to them if they would be willing to work with us to provide some, some tax incentives. Mainly because we're trying to confirm, conform with what they're requesting or asking us to do, you know, versus what we just had planned to do from the start. So we had to make a lot of modifications to make it still work and make the numbers still work. And, and then so we're like, hey, well, you know, this is, this is a lot of working cost for us. If you really want to make this happen, are you willing to work with us and provide some, some tax incentives? And so like, yeah, we're willing to discuss that. You know, so it definitely opens the doors. We're like, okay, we need to make that part of our plan. No matter what going forward, we need to have these tax incentives because it just, you know, even if it's a, it's a, it's a good deal to start with. It makes it even better. And sometimes, you know, it, it what could make or break a deal. You know, there's, there's other developers I know that I've spoken with that say they, they can't make anything work in certain states or cities unless there's some kind of a tax incentive to, to do so. So, yeah, for us, it's like, you know, it's like, yeah, especially right now. So, so we're like, yeah, we're going to make that as part of our. Almost like a criteria. We have to have that just because, you know, whether it actually needs to or not, it just makes a deal better. So why not? You know, if they're willing to give it. So.

Right. Yeah. And, and then it, it really builds a relationship. Me being a government girl, I can, I can talk a little more to this because the officials at, on the governmental side really like that working relationship. And if they are able to talk freely and you're able to exchange more and brainstorm more, it's, it makes for a better relationship in a longer relationship anyway. But they need to, and they do realize they need to be willing to give something. Most of them realize that but. And you're crazy not to, to, to do that because that, that is indeed what that the whole movement is towards to get more affordable housing and, and whatnot. And that helps make it possible. So but you know, plus, plus it.

Never hurts to ask anyway, right? I mean you never know. It's like might as well ask for it and see if they will, they will do it, you know.

So you're, you're build to rent. These are houses or apartments. I thought you said apartments earlier.

Apartments. Yep, they're apartments.

So apartments are always build to rent, aren't they?

Well, typically yes. I mean as far as they're gonna be rented out but, but I mean sometimes you'll, you know, developer could just build the apartments then sell them to another sell them.

Gotcha. Right Scott?

Okay, we're going to build them and hold them. I'll say so, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So yeah. And so are you doing A, B, C. I will not see obviously they're brand new. Are you doing, are you making them luxury units or what? What price point are you aiming for?

Yeah, so, so we're going to make them so they're not quite luxury like you know, high end but, but also, but, but like high end feel without the high end cost, you know. So we want to make them like I said, somewhat affordable. That kind of mid range price where most people are in that, that rental. Not, not low end, like let's say affordable housing. But, but you know, reachable housing I guess for, for most comparable rents, Florida.

We call that attainable.

Yeah, okay. Attainable. Yeah right. But, but have that kind that, that higher end feel and look again providing those like those amenities like I was saying, the, the walking trails, splash pads, the, the full community feel. Because a lot of the places here that, that at least here other, other builders I've, I've spoken with and I've heard they put very little emphasis on the amenities. They just want to have department and parking space and then that's it. Like they don't need backyards, they don't need amenities. Like well some people do want that stuff, you know. So it's like if you can have, you know, if I were looking to place to rent and I have property A where it's going to cost me, you know, 1500amonth rent, property B cost me maybe about same 1500, maybe even like say 1600amonth, a little bit extra. But property B has all these different fun amenities and it's got a backyard, it's got a big, you know, place to walk around and, you know, splash pads or playgrounds for the kids, that kind of stuff. So why would I not go with that one that's got all the nicer stuff? It's approximately the same price anyway, so. So we're going to be, you know, kind of competing, I guess, with some of those other, I hate to say, like, you know, basic builds, but because I think, you know, a lot of people will be attracted to those things and want to pay even a little bit extra just to have those, you know, more than just, you know, a gym or some, you know, farms have like, in their, in their, their office, like a gym or something. We want to do more than that. More than just a gym, you know, a swimming pool and you know, again, the, the green space and dog park, all these different things that, you know, people are really wanting. So.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's really good. And you touched on something that gets a little difficult sometimes, and that's those backyards, right?

Yeah.

And so are you doing one and two story pretty much or three and still backyard just for the first story. How are you handling that?

Yeah, well, well, so there'll be a mixture. So there'll be. There'll be some like, you know, townhomes that will have therefore, their own, I guess, personal backyard. But I guess I'm referring to also more this like, like the open green space and, and like almost like a park feel to where you essentially, it feels like your backyard where you actually go out and play and do things more than just, you know, your parking spot and you got the road, you know, so, so you know it. So some of these may have their own specific actual kind of backyard patio. I'm not talking like, you know, huge like, you know, 30 foot, you know, length yard, but, but still enough of like a private space to, to actually get out and have a, you know, kids play or something or dog, you know, do stuff. But, but, but most of it's going to be that more that's just that open green space, you know, open parks and, and trails walk around the whole place. You know, that kind of feel where it's more of like, you know, you actually have a yard, we'll say to use naturally a private personal yard. But, but, but you know, this open space that you can.

Question are you fencing it or not? Because we were, we've. We were fencing in one of our projects. And then you have the question about maintenance of that grass at the back there, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, but you. You're not fencing it.

You're keeping it open, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Except with the exception of some of those, like those townhomes, like I was saying that you may have some, you know, townhomes will have their own individual, you know, getting higher price for. For higher, you know, amenities and the things, but.

Yeah, great, great. All right, well, so we're coming up on the end of the. The period here, so anything else you want to cover before I ask you the big question?

I don't. I don't know. I don't think so. I think we covered quite a bit today, but. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, unless something comes up, I think we're. We're good to go to the big.

Questions and we'll have the contact information in the notes. But so is there a pivotal person or event that's brought you to where you are today or that's pushing you forward to a certain goal or something right now?

Yeah, so to be honest, there's been a few. I'd have to say. It'd be hard to put it on just one. But going back to, like, my. My first job I got when I was 14 years old working at Dairy Queen. The. I went through a few different owners in that time, and people were buying and selling that place for some reason. But. But each of them were, you know, were entrepreneurs. And so I learned a lot from each of them, you know, in particular about thinking about money and investing. One of them was big into, you know, like, Amway and things like that at the time. But. But they got these. Got me thinking more about money and. And definitely kind of pushing more to. To take an interest in. Well, one day maybe I want to buy a Derek in one day, you know, So I started thinking about, you know, that. More entrepreneurial thoughts because of them. I think they helped a lot. And then another man who was unfortunately no longer living, Patrick Clark, he was the. The. The founder and owner of the. The company I worked for for almost 20 years in the financial industry. He was like a. My father passed away very young. He was. He was 55. I was, you know, like 20. I don't know, 25 or something at the time. So he passed away very young for me. But. So this. This other man, Patrick, came into my life around that same time and kind of, for me, you know, he felt like he kind of took on that. That fatherly kind of role and. Sorry, I. I definitely. I loved him a lot and he. He helped me with lots of things. He obviously gave me the job at the company I worked for. And I came to him with lots of questions and contacts and of course he, he knew a lot about finance and investing and, and, and all kinds of things. And I, I, to this day, I wish he was still around. I probably could do a, a lot more having him to lean on for questions and things, but, but he was a big, big source as well for pushing me to go back to school and to get my degrees and, and to do the things I enjoyed doing. And then, and then another one, I'd have to say is someone who is still living. Luckily, a good friend of mine who, who essentially helped me to get into syndications and commercial real estate and get. To get out of my shell somewhat to get active on LinkedIn and other social media because I was literally not. You could not find me anywhere before this. I did not want to be found. Right. But. But then I realized, you know, at some point, like, if I want to get out there and do these big things and, and people need to be able to see me and, and find me and trust me. So, so, so she helped me get out there to, to do those things and, and, and yeah, I guess help, help get me pull into like, some of these, like, online virtual meetups and started networking with people and, and so, yeah, she's been a big help as well. And I'm feeling, I feel bad blinking her name right now. I can totally see her face.

But was that her business or that just was part of the relationship where it went that she know.

Well, she, she, she does syndications as well. Yep. She was, she was actually somewhat, somewhat new starting syndications at that time when we first met, but she helped get me into my first syndication deal as well and, and learned a lot from her as well. So. Yeah. Emma. Yeah, Emma Powell. Sorry. Yeah, I feel bad she's gonna see us and like, say, what do you. Can't remember my name? But yeah, it's one of those days for me. There's lots of stuff going on, so I can't think of things, but, but yeah, she's, she's, she's a good friend.

Before we came on, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so she's a good friend and, and I often still come to her a lot of times with questions. She knows a lot of stuff about the landlord laws in Idaho too, so she's, she's been a big help in lots of things.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, very good.

All right.

And did you want to nominate one of them as a pivotal person or both of them or.

Well, I mean, shoot. Sure. I guess we'll have to nominate Emma.

Emma. Okay. All right. And then we'll figure out. You can tell me if you want to call her and tell her or you want me to call her and tell her. Okay, but we'll talk offline on that. Yeah, well, very good. Well, so super. So tell people how they can reach you and we will put it in the show notes as well, but go ahead.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll definitely. As I mentioned, LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me. I'm active there. You can easily contact me, connect with me, and send me a message. But also, also here on, if you can see the screen behind me, you know, go to our website, beyondercamp.com you can see all of our existing properties that we have there that you can, you know, make a reservation and go hang out at with that kind of. Our sister site is BeyonderHoldings.com is our investment site to kind of look at any potential new or future investments that come up for. For RV campgrounds. But yeah, that's probably the best ways to define me on those two places. Or if you can also see the screen, you can also email me at don at beyondercamp. Com.

Terrific. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on. Really had fun with this.

Thanks. My pleasure. For sure. It's been enjoyable.