Indian Immigrant to Successful Investor Helping Others: Madhavi NadeJain, Think Outside the Stocks

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Hi there, this is Ginny Bowling with Pivotal Real Estate Investments and we have the Pivot to Prosperity channel where we interview people. And today we have Matvee Jain and Mavi. Please tell us about yourself.

Thank you so much, first of all, Ginny, for inviting me on your platform. I love what you do in this space and I am so happy to be here. So, yeah. I'm Madhavi Jain. I'm the president and wealth strategist at Think Outside the Stocks and Think Outside the Stocks is my company that's a private equity based company focused on commercial real estate. I help my investors in a twofold approach. I help them first of all create an efficient savings using an infinity banking strategy. And if you haven't heard about it, we will talk more about it in today's interview. But that's one of the strategies which is, you know, out of the box as the name goes. And also I help them with commercial real estate passive investing so they don't have to do the work. And just like you, Jenny, I, you know, try to contribute to their kind of financial structure so they can create that complete passive income, that complete passive cash flow without worrying about managing and maintaining these real estates.

Right. And what I try to make sure that my investors understand is without them, it couldn't be done. They're 70 to 80% of the deal, so they're important. So yeah, I totally understand. But it's like a new product, right?

Yeah. And then the fun part about it is that you are not just like how the REITs do it, right. You are not just, you know, percent owner on it, you are actually a partner into it and you have that majority of stake. So you kind of combine your money with the syndicators money and the effort and the subject matter. So there's so much that you can leverage from the syndicator. Right. So we work hard in terms of start from, you know, finding the property to implementing the plan and managing that property and selling it off that the passive investors don't have to worry about it. They can literally, I say that, you know, they don't even have to lift their finger, but actually they do have to lift a finger. Right Jenny? They have to click that button and go to their bank account and check that the cash flow is coming in.

Right, right, that and, and what I also say is it's like researching a stock if they are used to that. But it's way more fun because it can't disappear like a stock. Right?

Yeah. It's not just a paper value. Right. That it just keeps on going up and down. And it's just so sad that we have lived on the whims of the stock market up and down and especially the 401k. I mean, why do we not have a choice to invest outside of the stock market? It's our money and we are forced to kind of be on the whims of the up and down of the stock market. And what you're saying that that paper value, the, the real estate, that it's an asset behind our investment, there's an actual asset, it's standing there, it's not going to go away. And that's the beauty of it, that it's protected, it has that risk managed. So I really like that part of it for my investors that it's risk managed and it's a real asset and they're giving, they're providing this consistent returns to them.

Right, right. And in that respect you, I understand, just sold a property. Right. I know you can't say how well you did it. I can say that it sounds phenomenal.

Yes, you told me.

But you can't say it, you know, on the thing. But so tell us what, what the project was.

So this was actually in South Carolina now, Jeanne. I'm in Austin, Texas. And you are in Florida too. Right, sir. So you can agree that it's sometimes hard to find a deal that pencils in pencil sense means that the numbers just work out well. Right. So you have to look into different parameters across the emerging market and the U.S. the whole U.S. is your field. Right. So you find a right property. When we go through hundreds of property, we find that one needle in the haystack. And that's what we found with the South Carolina one. This was in Columbia. So we went in, in this property and you know, had such so much of potential in terms of what the occupancy of this property was, how well it was placed in terms of the market. We went in with several kind of criteria that we really liked about the property. And we were planning to have a five year hold on this property. We had a certain amount of units to be upgraded so that we can provide that value add and increase the value of the property. But it so happened that, you know, we, even before we could do the 50% of what we had planned for, we got a buyer and you know, within 18 months of our investment, we had a chance to exit with the, you know, phenomenal returns to our investors. And so we are so proud to exit that property and we could actually place this investor capital which otherwise could have triggered a really heavy, heavy tax consequences and moved them in a replacement which is called a 1031 strategy in another deal that we closed last year. So it, it has been a great journey.

That's great. Yes, 1031 exchanges are phenomenal and. But they're a little tricky in the syndication world.

Absolutely.

You have to do it with the worthwhile amount, usually is the bottom line. But that's. Congratulations, that's excellent.

Thank you so much, Ginny. And yeah, it is tricky because what happens is when you are an individual owner of a property and you do a 1031, it's just you who is undergoing that decision and saying that yes, I want to do the 1031. Say if you have some joint venture, this JVs say maybe handful of partners, you have to just bring them on the board and say that okay, we want to into that 1031. Now imagine the syndication with hundreds of investors. So it gets tricky. You know, you want to do it with the investors, you can't force them. Right? You want to do with investors, you need to have that majority. But you know, there are some options that people do actually choose not to proceed and which is okay too. But as long as you have that majority, it can make, we can make it happen. But it's extremely complex and we learn so much in the process. It's extremely complicated and. But it was fun to implement that.

Agree. Congratulations again.

Thank you.

And so let me back up actually, because we talked a little before the show and you have a project management background. Go back a little further on your credentials because they're all helpful, I think, and it's important to put those in the video.

Thank you so much, Ginny. So quite interestingly, I come from a background, actually. I come as a first generation immigrant to this country. I came almost 9,000 miles away from my roots 20 plus years ago and literally with like two suitcases and couple of hundred converted dollars. So that's where I started. That's what my journey in this country started. I come from India, so yeah. And that's what my journey started. And it's so tough to, you know, if, you know, if you are immigrant and listening to this, this video, understand what I'm saying. There's so much struggle about the visa and this, you know, getting the green card and citizenship. We have to struggle so much. I came as independent and converting that to a, you know, a visa or work visa was tremendously difficult. Some people don't, didn't even get a chance to do that. And I made my way through that, you know, first working as a contractor and then as an employee with one of the top five consulting companies. So I worked for Deloitte Consulting almost, you know, in various forms, almost all my life in this country. So, you know, about 15, 16 years in IT industry and you know, that felt like, yes, I've achieved it. I've achieved that dream in the country that, you know, I have this great job, I'm growing my family, you know, both of us, we worked in the, in the IT industry. So I, you know, the, what I supported in my Deloitte Consulting job is the project management. So I actually supported a lot of public sector projects, multimillionaire billion projects. And I was, you know, directly supporting my directors and project managers to provide that consistent project management support. And I would set processes automations and there's a lot of analytics that goes through into it and I'm a very numbers person. I'm a math major. I have a math in my name. I say it as Math V. So I, I love that, that I could use all that back and think outside the stocks and that especially that analytical nature and that, you know, the numbers person that I have to be able to use that and think outside the stocks and help my investors with that analytical background is something that I'm really happy and proud of.

Absolutely. And in fact, that segues right into the next question. Explain how you came up with the name Think Outside the Stocks.

So Jeanne, thank you so much for asking that. Actually Think Outside this talks is just not the name, it's actually the philosophy. It's that out of the box philosophy about always thinking differently. And I have been doing that all my life. That's, that's huge. That's really my personality and my husband sometimes say that. Madhavi, how do you even think about It I'm like, you know, thinking sometimes five, seven steps ahead and kind of visualizing and backtracking and saying that, okay, this is what we need to do right now because you know, seven steps down the line, this is where we need to be. So it's that think outside the stocks, you know, philosophy that, the out of box philosophy that I like to implement not just for me, but for my investors. So whenever I'm looking into an investment, I just look at parameters and things which could, you know, by multifold help my investors or if there is something which is like risk risky, provide that risk averse attitude in my analysis, in my due diligence.

That's terrific. Yeah, that's always the name of the game. And I think I told you with my work I was always walking that fine line of if it goes into litigation. So it's always avoid risk, find ways to limit risk, just whatever you can do to minimize risk.

And you come with such a terrific background, Jenny, yourself, you have such a wide variety of experience and that's what, what we were in our previous life, I would say. And that's what we can project in what we are doing right now. That helps us, that helps our investors to kind of put things together.

Right. Yeah. And different. And that's why it's so good teaming with different people. Everybody has a different background.

Absolutely.

And it really helps to be able to see different opportunities and whatnot. So. So yeah. Thank you. It is, it's DNA can. Or your real estate can just get in your DNA because there's so many aspects of it and I've known it was in mine for a long time. But I also wanted to go to tell us how many units you currently have and the value under management. That's impressive.

So we have about you know, 760 units. I have that with as a coach. EP with my strategic partnership, you know, across different partners and I do my part, select my partners very, very, you know, there's a process to it, there's a criteria to it. And we have $170 million in assets under management. So that's, that's where I came to be. Nice.

Congratulations.

And you know, it's, it's quite, it's been a quite a journey. So you know, coming back from that IT background I didn't see myself coming into real estate. So it's been a quite a journey. But it kind of happened suddenly with me.

Do you want to elaborate on that? Because we were saying all of our friends are working these nine to five jobs or eight to five jobs or eight to whatever. Eight.

It's, there's a starting point to it. There is no end point to it. Is it really?

Right.

Yeah, I would love to, Jeannie.

It takes getting sick or something.

Yeah. So, so essentially what happened is, you know, I started having this chronic, chronic condition and I still have it. But what started happening is it became overly difficult for me to continue to work. So here I am as an immigrant, you know, working at my dream job at my dream company. And there came a point that I just couldn't work. I just had to like pull the plug suddenly and stopped working. So my, you know, six figure salary and drastic job and I, there was one fine day I was just not working at all. And at that point I had my daughter in front of me and she was a middle schooler. And I kept looking at her and I was like, oh my gosh, she's going to be in high school and in school soon. I don't want her school choices, I don't want her education choices based on what we can afford because now we don't have that one salary coming in. And that was my big why into looking into this alternate investments. Right. So that sudden drop is, you know, at that time it felt big. It felt kind of, oh my God, what's happening? But I am so grateful that that happened. Because of that, I started looking into the alternate path of investments and real estate being that one of those paths and moving from the single family, you know, rentals to the multifamily, the passively first and then going into actively. And there is a transition there itself. I was just into it as a passive investor and you know, I was driven by what I found and I, you know, switched my path to be an active side. So there is, there is a story behind that as well.

There is, there is. Do you want to elaborate more now?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, again, you know, think outside the stocks. Is that that out of the box kind of strategy? Right. So when I was looking into the alternate investments and I was looking to real estate, started as a landlord by the tax code, it is a passive investment. But you and me know that it's nowhere passive. There's just, you know, the, the, the tenant trash and toilet, that is the treaties, the scarities of the rental real estate, that's what I got, you know, bombarded with. And it was difficult for me because still what it is, and my husband is still working at that full, it, you know, the, the wheel, 50, 60 hours of work week. So I could not have him participate in this investments. As I came to know about two different strategies. One is that infinity banking strategy and one is the, the syndication, especially the multifamily. I was completely mind blown and I was happy and as well as I'm sad and restless at the same time. And I was, I couldn't figure out why. And the reason was that, you know, I looked back into my background. I came to this country as an immigrant. When I look back my community or any immigrant per se, people who are high skill, high earning, you know, doctors, engineers, coming from IT backgrounds and they are so busy that they did not have time to kind of invent the strategies. And these strategies has been there had been going on for such a long time. I kind of, you know, was mind blown and I felt cheated. I was like, no, I have to take this back to my community. I have to educate more people. I have to serve more people. So I really come to this place from the purpose and the passion perspective. It's not about just, you know, hey, bringing an investment or you know, doing stuff. My, my purpose and my passion is about bringing these strategies to those people who don't have that time and availability to dwell into it. They don't have that time or capacity or expertise to review what it provides. So be able to provide those opportunity, give them that education that they can themselves decide that whether they want to go in these investments or not, that's really that true passion behind. Think outside the stocks and a little more.

Tell about your mission.

Yep. And I am on a mission actually, Jenny, to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. Absolutely. One family at a time and thousands more to go. And this trajectory change is very important, Ginny, because think about that 2 degrees change to a flight path, right. If you apply that 2 degree change right now and if I can bring that to a family's financial structure, their path, where they're going to land in future is going to be completely different. So their financial freedom, their generational wealth, that's where I want to bring in these strategies and give them that holistic perspective and change that trajectory. One family at a time and thousand mores to go.

I think that's very honorable and Lord knows there's lots of people that need to have some financial help. And financial literacy is, is huge. That's basically what you're probably teaching in many respects.

And you people like you and me, we have this, we kind of, you know, have this torch that we have to change. We have to what we know how to bring in people's life. So what you are doing, I respect that as well, is just tremendous, you know, tremendous difference that we are bringing in people's life.

Right. And people don't even realize and that going into it sometimes they're, it, the, the, the natural reaction is that they're scared something new, right?

Yeah.

So yeah, a lot of that and, and the word, you know, especially when it comes to syndication, that's kind of a scary word I guess in some ways to some people. But there's nothing really to it. And, and one of the things I say on my website and some other places, I don't know if you've seen it or, or not, but Harvard Business realized back in 2000 that the information age was going to lead to a whole new different business models. So normally a business would be source of whether it was raw materials or whatever their source.

Right.

And then production and then distribution. It was all very linear. So now with the information age, it's a proliferation. You have all these choices and different angles and so that's what a syndication is all about. Really.

Yeah. I love the way you put it. And you know, you are right, that syndication word is new. It's scary for some people because they haven't heard it enough. But what's tricky, Ginny, is and it always astonish me that the stock market, it almost feels like we are brainwashed into it. Right. My number one question always is we have our own 401k. It's our own money. Why. Why are we forced to invest just into the stock market when we are with our employers? It's our money. Why do we have no choice of implementing not just real estate, but anything that we want to do, really anything that we are doing in there, it's tied to the stock market and we are on the whims of stock market. Up and down is just such a, you know, like we discussed earlier, it's just such a paper money. It goes high. We. You cannot exit because it's going high, it's going down. You cannot exit because oh, now it's so much down that we cannot exit. But we have to think about it again, think outside the box people that why are we just thinking about stock market? Because it's a peer mentality that we are leading into that stock market. Did we evaluate what kind of risk, what kind of returns, what. What is it that the stock market is providing us? And when we have this new in. Not really new, but maybe you are hearing about it as new word. But the Syndication, think about how risk managed that it is, you know, compared to the stock market. That itself trumps everything else. So even if it's a new word, learn about it. People like you and me, we are teaching people about more about what different, you know, multiple aspects of the syndication are. And simply to put your role is simply to understand an investment and move into it. And after that everything is just on autopilot. I say it on my website that it's a passive and passive income on autopilot. So it's literally on autopilot. You don't want to be driving this huge vehicle because it's a team sport. There is a team of syndicators like us. We are managing this for you.

Right, right. And, and the great thing is it's not just real estate. You can really syndicate anything. In fact that was where syndications really got to be known as syndicating newspapers, syndicating sports, as you know. But yeah, but now in 2017 it became even more real estate. And so that segues perfectly into what you're looking at doing this year 2023. You're diversifying, I think, right?

Yes, so. So think outside the stocks. Actually the vision was about diversification. Right. We are telling people that hey, diversification outside of the stock market is important. When you go to a financial advisor they will in provide you strategies to diversify. But it's all tied to the stock market. Even the REITs that they provide you as an option, it's still tied to the stock market as a stock option. Right. So the think outside the stocks. The philosophy is to, to be able to diversify outside of the stock market. So we have been focusing so far on the multi family as an asset class. But in 2023 where we are with the interest rates on the rise, you know, the recession looming, we are looking at different asset classes under commercial real estate which are more risk managed and recession resistance. That's the most important aspect. So we have looked, you know, gone back, looked at different recession cycles 2008 and looking back just see what is that asset classes that still performed well there are certain classes which are like self storage, which has industrial. Even the ATM investments which is not your typical real estate investment. It's non real estate actually but ATM investment, not many people know that they can actually invest in those ATM machines that we see around, just around the corner. So that's my strategy is going to be that more focus on the investor. My approach is always investors first. So providing them that diversification outside of the multifamily as well is going to be my focus. We will be looking at different asset classes and we will be adding it one at a time based on that thorough due diligence on the sponsor team, the due diligence on the asset classes that we are bringing in and we will provide them diversification, diversified options to invest into different asset classes.

That's great. That's great. And to start winding it up a little. Let me ask you a few things up in my actual list of questions.

Absolutely.

So your unique ability, what is your one special thing that you, you excel at the most?

So the thinking outside the box, that's really my unique ability. And I am a very numbers person and the way I look at numbers, it's just that out of the box way that's very unusual. And going further, I actually am able to simplify those numbers, put them into scenarios. So if somebody wants look at different scenarios, even from the infinity banking perspective, I, I simplify those in scenarios and I help others understand it in a simplified way. So that's really my, you know, unique superpower I would say. And it has helped tremendously to my investors to you know, just to look at what they're being able to do.

Well, I, I definitely get that. And, and the infinity banking I have, I'm not ignoring that. That is I think a phenomenal concept and I've thought about implementing it myself. I haven't, but I think that that explains a lot of what's going on in society right now. The velocity of money has gone through the roof because people have learned different tricks and things to do that is making that same dollar get spent a few times per year instead of a few more times per year. But anyway, so, and then last question is, so what do you end up spending most of your day working doing? What is, what is taking your most time.

So right now I'm focused on generating a lot of value this year. My, my word of choice, I like to choose the, the word for a year and my word of choice is massive. So I want to look at adding massive value in massive amount of people. And for that I am just working on, you know, like I said, education is my truly passion. So I'm looking at creating a lot of content, simplifying what I was talking about earlier, that numbers and being able to just take that fear out of them so that I can provide them more education. That's what my focus on. So you know, being planning about different small, smaller educational models, different education, different content, simplifying certain concepts for my investors that's what I have been working on. And I spend most of my time in.

Well, that's great. That's great. And I know, you know, I'm doing the same. And I feel like a broken record on some things. But then I talk to somebody and they're like, I didn't see that. I didn't hear that. It's like, okay, well, I'm glad I'm not beating a dead horse. Yeah, yeah. No.

And then if, when I'm not spending time in creating the content and the education, I'm focusing on my, you know, the due diligence on the properties and the investments that are coming across my state, my desk. I don't, you know, raise or I don't bring in all the investments that come into my desk in front of my investors. Because the due diligence is really, really important for me, the sponsor, due diligence is always number one, the key factor. The partners, the teams that you are working with, what their experience has been, what are their values really? You know, because the investor first attitude that I have, not everybody has that as a baseline value. And I look for that as number one value. I also look at, no matter what their experience is, what that investment merit itself as. So, so I can do, you know, multiple level of due diligence. For example, this ATM investments that I have, you know, the. With a great sponsor. But I still ended up, you know, being in Philadelphia for doing the due diligence. I met them in their own turf. I looked at their, you know, material, I looked at their financials, kind of tracked that when the money is flowing, the tracking that money, and just visited, you know, randomly, some ATM machines that they were, they had implemented. So that's, that's really what I'm doing when I'm not, you know, working on my education is doing, spending that time to do that due diligence. So I'm confident that, okay, this is that right investment for my investors.

Right. Yep. I'm 120 with you. 100 more than that. Yeah.

No, our values, you know, Ginny, I. What our base thoughts are, baseline thoughts are for our investors, that they match a lot. And I have so much respect for what you do in this space as well. And yes, I think we have some, some quite few things that we were also discussing.

Probably partner on some things for sure. Beneficial to do these interviews to be able to get to know somebody a little.

Absolutely.

So why don't you tell people how they can reach you and I'll put that in the show notes as well.

Absolutely. So I have the website which is the same thinkoutsidethestocks.com so go on and check out my website. I have kind of a guide for you if you're new to the investments, the syndicated investments. I have a passive investor guide for you. It's called Active Cash Flow with passive Investments. And if you are interested into that infinity banking system, I actually have a book that is written by Patrick Donahue, who is the, you know, the founder of Paradigm Life, who, who I'm affiliated with. It's called Heads I went tells you low. So it talks about that infinity banking system and how you can create it for yourself. And if you need any help on that front, I can jump on a call and explain it to you. Kind of create that structure for you in a very methodical way. So if you would like that book, there's a PDF and an audiobook if you're the audio listeners like me. So you just go to bitly bit.ly and think win win. That's all lowercases. Think win win. That's the book that you can download from. And if you want to just jump on a 15 minute call and just think about what I can do for you, there's a link on the website too.

Great. Okay. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you so much, Ginny, for having me. This was such a great conversation and for most part it is great knowing you, what you do and what how you bring the changes to your investor's life as well.

Well, thank you much. I appreciate that.

Thank you.

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