Momma Zen with Karen Maezen Miller

Welcome to Mama Goddess. I'm your host, Alexandra J. Johnson. This podcast is all about rocking your goddess life, creating vibrant health and celebrating motherhood and family life. It's about living an authentically awesome life. Let's have.

Hello, I'm Alexander J. Johnson, and today I have the pleasure to be talking with Karen Mazen Miller. She is a wife and a mother, as well as a Zen Buddhist priest and a teacher or sensei at the Hazy Moon Zen center in Los Angeles. Welcome, Karen.

Thank you. It's nice to be visiting with you.

Yes, it's so great to be chatting with you. I loved Mama Zen and Hand Wash Cold. They're such fantastic nuggets of wisdom. Thanks for writing them.

Looking back on it, I can say, well, that was no trouble.

That's great. So I would love to start off with what is a Zen Buddhist priest, and how did you get on that journey? How did you become a Zen Buddhist priest, and why?

Actually, that's kind of what I tried to answer in the second book I wrote, Hand Washed Cold, in part because the community of readers that I was engaging with, we were all mothers or mothers of young children. I don't want to say young mothers. You can be an old mother and be the mother of young children. And there was a supposition, I think, that people had that I had a life that was different than theirs, that it might be more sacred or holy or in some way. I'd had an epiphany or a calling, but somehow I ended up kind of having a halo. But first, I'll tell you that in the Zen tradition, the priesthood is not a career. And actually the use of the word priest is kind of a little bit indirect. Zen, like most Buddhist practices or most Buddhist traditions, was monastic. And certainly in Asia and in history it was monastic. And as it has moved west, that form has changed to where it's applicable in modern life, and it is still a contemplative practice. In other words, Zen is entirely a meditative practice. It's a practice of meditation. It's not a university or an academic program. It's not the study of theology or doctrine or ancient writings or anything. It is entirely a meditation practice. So actually, anybody who meditates is doing Zen as authentically and originally as it's ever been done. And so to that degree, if you have a sincere practice, in essence, you are as much a monk as anybody else. But the truth is that the practice is so personal and it's so integral to your everyday life that taking ordination and becoming in my line, what's called a priest is really an expression of your own personal commitment, your own vows to live in a different way. And it doesn't mean to live in a remote or disengaged way. It means to do good, you know, to just always be, to bring an open, careful, attentive mind to everything you do because you have identified that you yourself are the source of all your problems. And so with that understanding then you say, I can't live without this and I want to keep going. So the priesthood is a personal expression in the same way that just as ordinary people, we find in our lives that sometimes we can make commitment to things that are larger than our own ideas of ourselves. Parenthood is that kind of a commitment. Marriage or partnership is that kind of commitment. Sometimes we have that kind of commitment to our work, not often. So that's really what I like to place it in, that kind of seriousness. When you recognize that something is really vital to your well being and to living a good life, then it's a natural next step. And as far as how you end up in that way, well, you end up the hard way. I mean, you end up. Nobody takes to a kind of a really deeply transformational practice in their life unless they've fallen apart. So it's not like choosing I'm going to be vegan now or I'm going to be green or it's not a philosophy or a lifestyle choice, like I'm going to be liberal or I'm going to be conservative. It's not like that. It is something that you enter into because you've tried all those other things. You've tried to stay sane, you know, you've tried to fulfill yourself. You've tried to be successful, you know, pursuing those external prizes, you know, and gratifications and you find them lacking. So I simply, I had a fabulous life, you know, the kind of life that you might think would be enough. But it's an age old story. You know, everybody has this opportunity kind of fashion a life according to the conventional notions of what is success and what will make you happy and what will make you fulfilled. And you find that it falls short and gradually things end and break. Your relationships change, your feeling about maybe your work and what's important changes. So at that point almost I would say really against my will, better judgment I simply stumbled into by virtue of people that I knew and things that I'd read. I did really the most outrageous and ridiculous, unthinkable thing I'd ever done, which was sit down Sit down in one spot and really face my life and myself and unravel all the difficulty that I'd created. So that's how I got there. Wow.

And how long was the process of becoming a priest? When did your journey start?

Well, yeah, it's kind of like at what point after you find a partner do you decide that you're going to have children? I mean, for some people, it's never. For other people, it's right away. And in my case, I never had. In fact, I resisted it tooth and nail because I practice in a very classical, traditional lineage, a Japanese Zen, which comes from China, which came from India. And in our tradition, when you ordain, you shave your hair. In fact, if you're a really good priest, which I'm not, I want you to know you keep your head shaved. Man or woman doesn't really make a difference. So that alone was enough to kind of give me a second thought because I was so vain, you know? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So that, I mean, I really got to be honest, it was a huge factor. Plus, I do so less now. I had had a career, and I still had the semblance of a career in the secular world. I had a name and reputation. I'm a suburban wife and mother, and I have all of that life. And in my mind, I kept thinking that I was going to lose something if I took the next step. Of course, that's never true. It's never, ever true. So in my case, I think I began my meditation practice with my teacher maybe in 1993 or something like that, probably before you were born, and it was 10 full years before it occurred to me that I needn't be afraid of losing anything. And I really wanted to do. I had mustered enough courage, really, to move beyond my own ideas of what my life should look like and who I thought I was and what I should look like. And if you've read Mama Zinn, you know, it was the experience of becoming a mother that really shatters all your barriers one by one. Of course, one by one, you lose your grip on who you thought you were and what your life was going to look like and what was really important. And it was when my daughter was three and I watched her learn to swim that I saw that she was barreling past me. You know, she was so more fearless than I was. She was so more brave and, you know, courageous and beautiful and strong. And these are the things we see in our children, you know, when we really see them. And then it dawned on me that I was a scaredy cat, so she inspired me.

That's amazing. I love that. So how just on that. Of your children inspiring you. How do we allow ourselves to be inspired by our children and have our children be our teachers in many ways?

Well, it's always happening. It's always right in front of you. So at this point, I'll kind of just really simply talk about awareness.

Yeah.

You know, it's really about seeing.

And.

Having your eyes open. I really try to keep things as simple as possible because I have been plagued all my life with a very keen mind and I think too much. And for all of us, that faculty which is really useful at times, ends up being our greatest source of suffering. We think too much and we dwell in our thoughts and we immerse ourselves in our feelings, and we kind of. All the restlessness and despair and confusion is all in our own heads. We all do this, but by virtue of doing this, we walk around as if we had blindfolds on. Really, our eyes may be open, but. How many times have you done this, Alexander? You're driving in the car and then you realize, oh, my gosh, where am I? My teacher likes to tell me. This alone should convince you that life is inherently good because you're not dead yet. And you are constantly walking around having no conscious awareness of where you are or what you're doing. And everybody's doing it. And yet, by and large, we don't get hurt. And we don't hurt one another, by and large. So that's a miracle, in case you thought there wasn't. So through the practice of meditation, and it's really age old, people can make it act like they need to redesign it or reinvent it for the 21st century. But the truth is, unless we learn to quiet our minds, we are going to be chased to hell and back. By the insanity that's in between our ears. And when you practice being still, stilling your body, quieting your mind, keeping your eyes open, you are actually experiencing who you really are, which is this pure awareness. I mean, you really. Right now, can you hear me? Can you hear me? Say yes.

Yes.

Okay. Okay. You see, that's the function of awareness. Can you. Are you sitting in a chair? Yes. Okay. Do you feel that chair beneath you?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. And whatever else is going on right now, you're focusing your awareness on my voice. All these are the practices of. They can sound very esoteric and exotic, but really, we're just talking about this simple thing. Now, what you're aware of is Everything that is happening in your world, right? I mean, where I am, I might hear a garbage truck go by or a plane overhead, I'll hear the dog bark. I see the walls in the room front of me. I can feel the phone in my hands. Okay? This is all just the intuitive capacity we have to be fully engaged in our life. It's not some special life. It doesn't feel like we're floating on clouds. It's just your life. But how often, and I mean we're talking about not really how often, how seldom you are almost never really aware of your own life. Once we have little children, we become instantly and shockingly, glaringly aware because we're right underfoot. And in my case, what I realized as a first time mother at age 42, I liked to think that I had my act together, that I was just naturally kind of coping and that my practice was working. I was very Zen like and I didn't get upset very often. But what I'd realized, I had constructed a world in which the only things that were in my world was what I wanted, things I liked. I did what I like to do when I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it, so forth. So we get very, very good at pushing away those things that we don't want when we don't want them. But when we have children, the very thing we love the most is more than likely doing the thing that we like the least. And so there's that situation. All we really have to do is stop paying attention to the thoughts that we're having, the critical thoughts that we're having about something, and just open our eyes and see it as it is. What we learn through meditation practice is we spend our whole lives thinking. And that in and of itself is not a problem except for what we're thinking about. And what we're always thinking about is, I don't like this. This isn't good enough. I'm not good enough. I can't handle this. The judgment, you know, she's a brat, he's out of control. I've made a terrible mistake. You know, this is a catastrophe. I'm a failure. Whatever it is we're doing that, I'm going to say 23 hours and 59 minutes a day, we're doing that. And so of course we believe it. And being so engaged in our own critical thinking and judgment is what blinds us from what's really happening in a way we don't have to accept it or reject it. It's in front of us it is. What is. You know, I once read an article that said that, you know, they've done science, of course. Science is always going to support truth, the truth of our lives. And particularly when they study how we use our brains, they're always going to end up drawing a conclusion, which is exactly what you experience when you study your own mind, which is meditation. Do you know how long the average adult can maintain their awareness or attention on a particular thing in front of them before they lose their focus, before they are distracted? Do you know how long, Alexandra, Take a guess.

I would say seconds.

How long?

I would say a couple seconds.

Yeah. Well, it's 14 seconds, you know, because you've made this, your life work, too, to just exam you 14. So if we can just add one second to the attention span, and you extend that over the course of your entire life, and then all those people and things that really matter to you, that you truly love, you give them one more second of your attention, and you've transformed the entire universe. If I didn't have a practice underlying all this, I mean, anybody can come up with witticisms and the New agey things will do this. Three ways to do this. Seven ways to do this. If I didn't have a practice, I wouldn't be able to help myself or do any good. But I have a practice, so I can be honest with myself about how I really live and be honest with myself about changing how I live.

And then your meditation practice, is this something that you do every single day? And did this change when you have had kids, or is this something?

Sure, absolutely. Well, on the one hand, it's something that I know I should do every day. First off, see that bit of awareness and that being honest with yourself, I know I need to do this every day. This is kind of, you know what? I brush my teeth every day. And I want you to know that I floss my teeth now every day, too. But I lied about it for a very long time. I mean, I told my dentist and the hygienist every six months that I was flossing, and they could tell. Meditation. Yeah. And, you know, it's easy enough to do. I'm saying do it five minutes a day, do it ten minutes a day. Sit in a chair, sit on the floor. Don't make it complicated. But if you can really put yourself in a quiet room for that long, the truth is, if you don't have five minutes a day, if you don't have 10 minutes a day, then that is the utmost in self deceit. Because I know what you're doing with those 10 minutes. You're sitting in front of the TV or you're on your computer, you're checking your email, you're doing this. You were never not busy enough. So yes, I understand that. It's kind of like if I don't do that, and I don't know how it works, but if I don't do that, I'm going to. My fuse gets shorter and shorter and shorter now at the same time, lucky me, I discovered my practice and it life saving ability. You know, five, 10 years before I had became a mother. During that time, Alexandra, you know, I already knew that it would. I knew the benefits and you know, and I knew that I couldn't really live without it. And I'll tell you, if it didn't save our lives, we wouldn't do it. But I didn't know really why, what it was for. But when I became a mother, thrust into this situation, which suddenly, as I was saying before, this was not the life I chose, I loved my daughter and I wanted to be a mother absolutely. But nothing about it was the way I expected it to be. I always had the feeling of being out of control. My body wasn't my own, my home wasn't my own, my bed wasn't my own, my privacy wasn't my own. Nothing is your own. And what happened, the reason why is that truly your life just became magnified enormously. But I didn't just have myself to think about. So when that happens, that's really called in a way, it's a way of falling apart. But that an event like that is spiritual. It's a spiritual event because everything you thought you were, what your requirements were, what you could and couldn't do, that's all turned upside down and inside out by parenthood, isn't it?

I don't know. I'm not a parent yet.

I'm on the. Oh, it is, it is. So five months pregnant. Even if you don't think that you have any interest in religion or spirituality or you're not at all looking for that kind of a breakthrough, you're going to have it as a parent, you're going to have that kind of a breakthrough. There's your opportunity.

So then parenting essentially can be the biggest spiritual awakening. If we're.

For most of us, it is. For most of us it is. And I'll say that, and I won't use any kind of rarefied language, the kind of love you feel for your child immediately. I mean, it is not something that you cultivate or that you have to work on is beyond description. This doesn't mean that you like your child all the time, but it means that underneath that there is a bottomless source of love that transcends everything. So in a way, that's your encounter with. Some people would call it the divine, but it's transcendent love. It's unconditional. Even though you might tell yourself and many times yourself, well, I really love my child. If when all these things, all these kind of barriers that you put in and requirements that you put in, the truth is that you love them no matter what. And so that's. The profound aspect of life itself is revealed for many of us for the first time through parenthood, then what we do with it afterwards is a practice. That's what makes it a practice. Every day we have to act from that place of love. That doesn't mean we have to be overly permissive or idiotic. It means that we continually are going to be brought to a place where we have to suspend our own notions, our own ideas of how it should be and accept how it is, work with it how it is. Not be idle and uninvolved and disengaged and disinterested, but really work with things as they are. Our children arrive fully formed. It's a mistaken idea that somehow we have to manufacture our children, turn them into something that they arrive, you know, like putty or something. That is not what they are. They are intrinsically whole and complete. There's not a single child who isn't a child genius. And out of that, really, then having that wakeful awareness, just that observation we see, this is really part of what's so the joy in being a parent is that you're amazed over and over. You're amazed, of course, over and over. Also you're disappointed, frustrated, angry and upset. But regularly you're going to be amazed and astounded and just silenced at the beauty and the perfection that children bring to our lives. They see things very, very clearly, especially when they're young. And then they bring us into their world where we can say, wow, isn't this fun? You know, isn't this funny? Isn't this sweet? Isn't this amazing? So that's what our children can do.

That's awesome. So I love that too. I love the idea of our children bringing us into another world and that they're perfect and whole and complete. And I'm just curious. And the world is moving so fast. It seems like we Just don't have the time, or we don't make the time to be present and to actually step into the child's world. We're trying to control the child's world so it matches ours.

You're right. But guess where we are when we're doing that. I'm going to give you two choices. Are we on the ground where we're standing or are we in our heads? In our heads, yes. All of that comes from just what I mentioned at the beginning of our conversation. All of it comes from we're sitting there, that rat, tat, tat, tat, talking to ourselves about and evaluating this, always against what? Some kind of imaginary outcome, some kind of result? Are they normal first? I mean, that's probably one of the. You know, when they're really, really little, you know, you just want your child to be normal and you have all these milestones and measurements and yardsticks that you use. I mean, are we on time for this? Are they developing appropriately? And every time you go for a checkup, you get the weights and measurements and you mark it down and you see it on a chart, and they're in this percentile and that percentile. But gradually you might wake up and say, to what end? And then really, you're looking farther into your own expectation of what constitutes the result that you have in mind, really. And this speaks to this question of how, when we judge ourselves to be bad parents and inadequate parents, and I don't mean this in a kind of a. You know, the truth is that we always know, we always want to do better. You know, that's our good heart. You know, we always want to do it better next time. But when we're so critical with ourselves as parents, what are we actually doing there? We're evaluating something. We're saying, oh, I ruined my kid. Oh, I didn't give my child every advantage. Oh, they're going to be left behind. Oh, they're not going to be smart enough, pretty enough, clever enough, talented enough. What we really have to look at that really honestly. And I'll tell you, now my daughter's 12, and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, now it really gets difficult because it's the competition and the buying into that notion that it's a chase and a race and we've got to get ahead and we've got to give our kids these advantages. It starts when they're really, really little about what are the right toys and what's the right food and this or that, and every kind of ideology what's the right way and the wrong way. All of that is based on our own. We have to be honest with ourselves. Our own definitions of what is a failure, what's a success, and what's a failure. And then the cruelty. What's really shocking is when you look and see. All their lives, I have been judging my child as being good enough or not good enough, smart enough or not smart enough, ahead or behind. And we know in our hearts when we really face that. We know how completely unfair and unkind that is to another human being. But it's hard to stop.

Yeah. Well, and then I read somewhere, too, that you. When we're hard on ourselves and we're judging ourselves, how can we not be doing that to our children?

We're doing it to everybody and everything. Yeah. A critical mind is a critical mind. And I like to say. And sometimes people are really shocked by how thoroughly you can see through these things. But I have realized there's no such thing as constructive criticism. It's never constructive. All criticism is destructive. So what we have to do, the cleverness here, when I say clever, that's not really even it. The honesty. Of course. We want to give our children life skills, or we want them to. Even give is the wrong term. We want them to be functional, you know, and we want them to be able to move through the world. And the world is large, you know, and everything and everyone's in it. We want them to be skilled, have some skills that they can do this. And it ends up being. The only way we can teach them is to develop those skills ourselves, is to practice that ourselves, and to show them through our own lives how to do things. Because that's how all learning occurs anyway. Really, all learning occurs. Even a classroom teacher will tell you. Teachers show. They don't tell. A teacher who tells is not really getting through, is not really teaching fully. So ultimately, this means that our children bring us to the point where we feel more responsible for our own lives. I'm responsible for myself. And, you know, we can be way grown up and maybe never even take responsibility for ourselves. And by that I mean really realizing we all live in a world of our own making. We function here independently. If we cause trouble, it's up to us to remedy it. If we want it to be a friendly world, we have to be friendly. If we want it to be a truthful world, we have to be honest. If we want there to be peace, we have to be at peace. So it's very, very challenging. But actually, always then comes Back to the one place and the one person over whom you have total control. And that is yourself.

Awesome. I love it. So there's so many different tangents we can go on. I'm just curious of taking responsibility for ourselves. And then how do we parent? Like, how do we. What's our role as a parent? And how do we. That's a good question. Authentic expression.

That's a really good question. And any words that I use.

Are.

Going to take it in the wrong direction. Well, I think foremost our role is to love, because that's the hardest thing to do. Even though we love our children, sometimes we hate our children. But out of that love, an unconditional love, comes respect for each other. It comes trust, because we have to trust one another. And it's never going to be based on our idea of what's right or what we want to have happen. I mean, our children pretty quickly are going to show us that they are themselves first, that they are really themselves. We may see ourselves in certain characteristics, but they are, you know, they have a separate life or they have their own life, is what I'll say. In a way, it's completely integrated. Everything is completely integrated as one. But they have their own trajectory. But out of love, then love is the only thing that can overcome fear. We're going to be afraid most of the time. We're going to be unprepared. There's no way to prepare for life. There's really no way. We can seek information and assistance and we can ask questions, but we never know what's going to happen next, obviously. So we're really living all the time, and particularly with our children. We find that we're living right on the brink of the unknown. That's probably the best description of what life is. Not knowing. Really not knowing anything that we pretend to know or think we know or think we've got figured out or any prediction that we make is just a guess. So, I mean, for myself now, I have found that if I can always bring myself back to. And it's even a silent. It doesn't have to be voiced. If I can just love, it calms me. It allows my child to be herself with her own experiences and feelings. I relinquish control. And then we can keep going, and then we can keep going. But that's, I think, our role. And if we can do that, then we function in the purest form. That's what a parent is love.

What stops us from. I have numerous thoughts, but I'm curious of, like, what Stops us from loving. Is it fear? Is it being in our mind? Like what inhibits us from truly giving the love to our children and our life that we so desire?

Yeah, fear. Fear is the opposite of love. Hate is not the opposite of love. Fear is the opposite of love. And fear lives in our minds. It doesn't actually have substance. It is entirely the product of the way we think. And if we think in terms of, you know, just to kind of put this in another expression, you know, the ruminating mind, the thinking mind is a function of ego. So this person that I call Karen or Mason, she has a voice, you have a voice in your head and it's talking to you all the time and it's you and you think it's your voice and you know, it's a non stop commentary. And only rarely, you know what's so increasing talk about how our world has changed so much? Do you know how rarely we actually speak anymore? Now most communication is not verbal, isn't it? It's data and technology. And that's really clearly, you know, unreal. It seems even more like we're totally living in our own heads because we don't ever actually even speak to one another face to face in a lot of cases.

Right?

So yeah, it's fear. And if you really ego's function in human beings is to provide security, to seek security. And sometimes it functions just perfectly. You hear the siren, you see the storms gather. In the old days when the saber toothed tiger entered the campground, I mean whatever you ran. But now we don't have those kinds of as many physical risks and dangers. All of our risks and dangers are imaginary. They all reside in the future. And in the future we're imagining, it's the enemy. All the worst what ifs, the worst case scenarios, all the disasters. What about, what about what about what if? What if? What if? And in truth, even if you look at the topics that we've covered today, they all come from that place where, well, what about such. And so what about when this happens? All of that, that's the product of our thinking mind, that is we're so clever, we're always anticipating some what horrible thing. And then we get afraid because we feel insecure because the truth is we have no power, we have no traction in this imaginary place called the future. The only place that's real is this moment right here, now. And from this moment right here, now, where is this? In my case, I'll say, where is this high school graduation? Where is this early college admission? Where Is this SAT Score? I'm talking about that now, about my daughter. These are these things that are looming. Like, oh, my gosh. What about this? That's not in front of me. All there ever is is what you see, hear, think, feel. That's all there is. So from here, I can tell you there are no problems here. Right now, I'm looking out my window. The grass is growing. The sun is shining. There is really no problem. We invent these unsolvable problems. And then we worry ourselves sick over how we're supposed to get from here to there. In reality, steps appear one by one. And we manage them. We handle them one by one. And things unfold quite naturally. But when we're living in that fearful space which is between our ears, all we have is problem. All we have is failure. All we have is too little, too late. And so we have to step out of that place. It's very dark and grim. That's where all the shadows are. That's where our nightmares are. And we have to step out into this light where real life is occurring. And everything and everyone that we love is living right here now. So you think that we would come out, but most of us don't, right?

Well, it's like an addiction, right?

It is an addiction.

It's like an addictive nature to our thoughts. And, like, what if? What if? What if.

Oh, my gosh. What if it is an addiction? And you're right to call it that. My teacher would say the addiction to our own ruminating mind is the most powerful addiction of all. More powerful than nicotine, more powerful than alcohol. More powerful than any of the narcotics or anything illegal. It's the legal addiction, and it's deadly. We end up buried alive in what?

Our own.

Insanity. Really, our own insanity can't get out of it. That's why we practice. I mean, it's the only antidote to it. It's kind of like what we do is we put. It's like putting your brain on a diet or it's like putting your brain. Whatever the other things that you would do in order to overcome your addictive behaviors. That's what meditation is doing. It's saying, okay, first we have to admit we have a problem. Then we have to sit down and face the problem directly. And really take a look at what we're doing. Sometimes people say, well, I can't meditate because I can't stop thinking. And I say, exactly. That's what you see when you sit down and you have a practice that you're Thinking suddenly you're looking at it, and that's profound. Then we say, just breathe. Follow that breath. Keep returning to your breath. And gradually you're going to overcome that habit. It's just a habit. But it's the most difficult habit to break, right?

Yeah, totally. So I'm curious on a personal note, because you were just saying, we hold attention for 14 seconds and in meditation. I've been meditating for four years every day.

Four years every day?

Yeah.

No. How long do you meditate?

Anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes.

Oh, okay. I thought you said you've been meditating every day for four years. But I thought you said you were meditating four years every day. Yeah, Yeah. I couldn't figure out how to fit four years into a day.

That's awesome. Yeah, for four years I've meditated. That's funny. But I'm curious. There's an esoteric I know, some people that are listening to this that may not know about meditation. There's like an esoteric that you're going to have. You're going to see the lights and it's going to be blissful. And I'm just curious on your experience, because I know for me, I have to work every single day.

Oh, absolutely.

The mystical experience. Can you talk a little bit about that?

And that's that judging mind. I mean, we practice with it forever. Forever. And I really mean forever. I don't just mean until the day you die. I mean, Buddha is still practicing. So, yeah, you have been practicing being neurotic since beginningless time. You've got a lot of practice in on that. So you have to be really patient with yourself. And part of what you get to see here is that actually every single instant of your life is entirely new and distinct and fresh. It's not the same old same old, anytime, anywhere. And yet what are we bringing to it? An evaluating mind that says, well, what was this like? How did this go? Was it a good meditation? Was it the very same mind? You see? So you have to quit doing that, too. It takes time, my teacher says about which is true of all practices. It's like wearing off the sole of your shoe. You have to walk on it. You just keep doing it. Now, let's talk about that thing about practice. We have this notion that we should really, in life, we need to find what we're good at. We need to find our passion. We need to find whatever our hidden talent is, and we need to pursue that. Well, have you ever heard of the concept of deliberate practice? Yes. And what these studies have shown is that the people who really, really, really, really, really are head and shoulders, they almost seem like they're gods on earth, that they are head and shoulders better than anybody else. Things like Michael Jordan at free throws, okay? And we used to say Tiger woods, he's lost his charms. But Tiger woods at golf, or the world's best pianist or neurologist or ice cream maker, whatever. You know what distinguishes their lives from others? They practice more. They practice. So whatever you practice, you're going to become. So most of us are practicing being anxious, panicked, fearful, worried, critical, angry, fed up, whatever. We're practicing that non stop. So we're really good at it.

So.

With meditation practice, you're simply. Instead of devoting all of your awareness and all of your lifetime to those things that produce nothing, that never contribute in one way to your health or happiness or to kindness or to laughter, instead of devoting yourself to that pursuit, you're just taking this turn and you're literally turning to face something else, saying, I'm going to spend this here, now. That moment that you spend taking responsibility for this moment and then taking responsibility for the next moment, those are seeds that you're planting in your world. And instead of them being poisonous seeds, they are fruitful seeds. You're planting respect and kindness and love and acceptance and happiness and joy. You're planting those things and so they bear fruit in other ways and in other times in your life. So for the very same reason we brush our teeth and floss so that we do not have to endure the hell in a dental chair, we engage in this practice so that we can maximize good and minimize evil. Really simple.

Yeah, loving. You talk about this on your blog and in your books as well. Life is being a practice. And I love how you just. In your books, you're just so great. I just love how you write and your perspective and everything. You're just fantastic. But you focus on the simple things of doing the laundry and the dishes and cooking and yard work. For a lot of us, that's like not important things. That's the money.

Well, those are the things we despise. Isn't it interesting? And those are the very things that universally comprise our lives. We may think that we live in such a radically different way and we're just so highly evolved and we live in just such a technological wonderland that our life is so different than it was even for our parents or their parents or their parents. But at a certain point in your life, you realize you know what life is. It's breakfast, lunch and dinner. And I mean, even if you skip a meal. And that ordinary aspect of life, the daily aspect of life, is what we demean. We despise it, you know, we don't want to do it. It's beneath us. We devalue it. That's what life is. So no wonder that we feel so much despair. Because by our own critical minds, we have taken what constitutes the greater measure of life and made it meaningless. It's not as though any of this stuff is like. It's not all a day at the beach. But what's wrong with the dish? What's wrong with a weed? What's wrong with your home? What's wrong with. Everything that I write is something that I need, Alexandra, in my own life. I'm writing to cure my ills. And that is I have to make myself at home in my own home. I have to make myself at home in my life as it is, where it is with the people who are here that I've chosen, that I might profess to love. That's what's really hard to do. We've made it really easy to dispose and reject and revile and demean virtually every part of our life, even our work, you know, the people we hate, our jobs we hate, the people we work with. So here I take the things that. They just comprise my life. So I had better be able to bring my practice to a life that looks totally insignificant, unworthy, when I can bring my love to that space. That's love, you see? And what a wonderful thing to give to the people I share my life with and to myself. Because that's how you turn, I say, a patch of pavement. That's how you turn hell into heaven. That's how you turn a patch of weeds into paradise. That way.

Right? And there's no love and the presence. And then it's all like you said at the beginning, we're creating hell in our mind. We can be as it's the worst thing or it's the most important thing, right?

Yeah. And that help we start out creating it in our mind. But that's what we are planting outwardly. It insinuates into every aspect of our life. We don't. We despise our lives. And what's the sign of it? We don't care for it. If we can't put our shoes in the closet, it means we don't care about the shoes. It imprints everything. Sometimes I say it's the smallest deed, the small, smallest action accomplishes the most, really, because that if you have been blind to this and you say, well, it doesn't really matter if I make my bed because I'm just going to have to. That's very clever thinking. It doesn't really matter. I'll just let the dishes stack up because I'll wash them. I hate to wash dishes. And therefore, blah, blah, blah. Well, what have you done then? You've turned your home into a garbage pit. It is profound. Profound. The impact that you have, and you alone have this impact. The power is all yours to do that. These kinds of things that take, what, five minutes? They take a minute and they have become outsized. They're gargantuan, gigantic. We've turned them into monsters. It's interesting, Alexandra. I always write about the. Really. It looks like what I write is so simple that people can sometimes complain that it's not complex enough, it's not profound enough. But I get more hate mail from this simple instruction that I tell people to make their beds because the state of your bed is the state of your head. And people object to that like you wouldn't believe. And I think, my gosh, they've wrapped all this whole philosophy, their whole identity, out of avoiding emotion. It's simply emotion. The use of their arms, their hands. That takes less than five minutes a day. That tells me a lot, then, about how that person lives. They've rejected a lot of things in their lives. They value something or another. I don't know what it is, that they place a very high premium on something other than the reality of their lives, where they really are, the homes they live in, the rooms they occupy. To change the world, we first have to straighten our own. I mean, that's where we start. We have to start where we are. We have to straighten our own room before we can straighten up our own world. We can't change anything if we can't change a light bulb.

Definitely.

Yeah.

I love that. I love that. Just because I used to be a really messy person, make a really messy room. That was always in my head of, like, I need to do more important things. And my car was messy, and then I totally just shifted and I cleaned up my mind and just, you know, did a lot of work. But it's.

It is your mind that's the important thing, to realize that it really is your mind. And then you'll see. Oh, my gosh. If I want my mind to be orderly and to function well, I have to care for it in this way, because it really is your mind. It's not a metaphor for your mind. It really is your mind. It's the functioning of your mind and your perceptions are your mental perception. Everything you see, everything you hear, everything that occurs in your so called world is really just your mind. That's how we experience our lives. That's the function of the brain, is to take all this sensory input and to fashion the image that you occupy and where you live. So that really is your mind. And once you see that, then it becomes really clear where the problems are. They are never outside of you. If you take a look outside and you say, oh my gosh, our world is so chaos and blah blah, blah. But where I'm looking at, I can see that the earth, the ground never conflicts with the sky. It never objects to the sky. I can see that the mountain that's at the end of my street never reaches up and fights with the clouds. Nothing is the matter except me, how I view it. There's all your power. Talk about freedom. And that's why I like to in my life, keep it simple. Because I have all the power there is and I'm going to focus on what I can do and let go of those problems that I don't have. Release the fears that are unfounded and say hello to people, wear a smile, drop whatever it is. I think that's the most important thing in the world. And focus on what's in front of me.

Makes life simple.

It does. It's not always easy, but it makes it simple.

So then you just focus on that. It's like what's in front of you. And some people may have objections of like, but the world, you know, you kind of adjust it, but the world is falling apart or I need to be saving the world. Can you just talk about how we actually are influencing the world?

Yeah, well, first off, just kind of look at. There's no question the world is in terrible shape. Okay? I mean really. And I have a feeling it's always been like this. What makes it terrible? Fear, greed, distrust, hatred, Ignorance. And by that I mean not really seeing clearly that we're all in it together. Okay, so those are the things that really make the world terrible. Now I'm going to ask you this. Whose world is it? Whose world is it that you're talking about? There you can answer that question.

Our world.

Yeah, well, and even more personally, get down to the very, very center of it. Who's in that world?

I am.

Yes, it's your world. So what are you hating something or someone? Are you afraid? Are you Being greedy? Are you being blind? You know?

Now.

Where is it in your world that you can do something, anything? Where is the only place that your life functions from? Where are you right now? What would you call that? Would you call it here? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You're always here. You are always where you are. Now what time is it in your life?

Well, right now, but I also want to say at 12:36.

Absolutely. We could call it 12:30 or we can call it now. 12:30 is going to change to 12:31. 12:32, 1 o'. Clock. But is it always now?

Yes.

Okay, so here we've established that this big world which has all of these problems in it and it really is falling apart because of all of these ego driven behaviors. Hate, greed, fear, disrespect, distrust, anger, all of those things that are. That world is exactly where you're standing and it's occupying your here and now. So how are you going to change that world? What's the only way you have to change that world? You're going to stay awake, drop all those egocentric thoughts and feelings, those preoccupations, empty out that head. Now, what appears in front of you that needs doing? What appears? Maybe it's a dirty dish. Maybe it's, you know, maybe it's a catastrophe that's happened someplace else and you get a phone call from somebody that says, hey, you want to give some money to our telefund? Maybe you get a call from a church or you go to pick up your child at school and there's a volunteer sign up. Or maybe you have to go to the grocery store because you got to cook dinner. Or maybe you have to make the beds. Maybe you have to go out and trim the grass and pull some weeds. That's the only place you have. That's the only place that's real. So change that world. You think that there's a different world than the world, the only world that you experience. Change that world. Clarify that world. Wake up that world and take care of whatever comes. It's not a little thing. Once you understand that world, you'll realize that everything you do, every moment, it's like a pebble in a pond. It goes on forever. The action triggers the next action, triggers the next action. We say, never underestimate a single. We'll say monk here, a single monk on a mountaintop, making a bow, saying a chant, praying, you know, planting a tree. A single monk, he alone, she alone transforms the universe. And that's the power that you have. You have it in Your world, which is your life, right where you are. I have it in mine. I always know what time it is. And actually I always know what it's time to do. I do what appears in front of me. And if I can drop my objection, my evaluation, my complaint, my disgust, then I have. I've done good. I'll have to do it over again, but that's okay. The sun has to come up again tomorrow too. Thank Kevin. It will.

Amazing. Thank you. That was transformative.

Well, I have to be careful. Don't get me started. Can you tell I have a silent meditation practice? As soon as you pull a cord, I'll just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

It's so great though.

I hope it helps.

Yeah, definitely. And I just appreciate you again. I love the simplicity of just bringing it back to.

You have so much power. You have all the power in the world. That's what is. You're the center of the universe. So, yeah, make your bed.

That's so great. So I have one more question. I know you teach. I thought on your website that you have an art of non parenting.

I'm just curious.

For the parents out there, like, what would you kind of want to leave them with? Or maybe talking a little bit about the art of non parenting?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a good question. I'll just say they grow up soon enough and soon enough is too soon.

And.

Rely on love, trust, love, surrender to love. Your baby will be okay. That's what I want to say. And this is only what my daughter has told me every day of her life in so many words. Sometimes a cry, a tear, a scream, a smile. She tells me literally, mommy, why don't you just be the mom? Just encourage me. And so that's what I want to offer. I want to offer encouragement and invite you to pass it along. The one thing that we don't ever give ourselves enough of. So take my encouragement and then give it many times over to your children. That's what I want to say.

Beautiful Goosebumps.

Well, thank you for calling and chatting with me and letting me blather on and on. But now it's time for you to go take care of what's next in your life. And I'm going to go take care of what's next in my life. I'm going to go pick up my daughter and practice non parenting.

That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for your energy and your love and your generosity. So I really appreciate it and have a beautiful day.

Thank you. All feelings are mutual. Alexandra, take good care of yourself.

I will. Thank you so much.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Mama Goddess. Sending you lots of love and blessings. If you'd like to connect more, go to mamagoddess.com until next time, keep rocking it and have an awesome day.