The Art of Attention: Parenting with Elena Brower

Welcome to Mama Goddess. I'm your host, Alexandra J. Johnson. This podcast is all about rocking your goddess life, creating vibrant health and celebrating motherhood and family life. It's about living an authentically awesome life. Let's have. Hello, I'm Alexander J. Johnson, and today's guest is the lovely Elena Brower. Elena is Jonah's mama, founder and co owner of Vera Yoga and Art of Attention. She offers a realistic and reverent approach to the world through her teaching and writing. Her classes are masterful, candid blend of artful alignment, empowerment and recognition. She writes for yoga journal, Huffington Post, Positively Positive, and Gaiam, and her recent classes can be seen on yogaglow.com she is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom. Welcome.

Thank you so much, honey. I'm so glad to be here with you.

Oh, I'm so happy to be with you. I was just preparing and I just felt like, Elena, energy. And I'm like, oh, I just feel love, appreciation and energy and wisdom flowing.

That's so awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Yes, I love it and of course I love you. So I would love to start off with just giving us a little. A little bit into your journey. Like, how did you become the fabulous Elena that you are today with yoga, mamahood, meditation, healing, all of your goodness.

Oh, God. Oh, God. I guess probably the best place to start would be graduating from school. I was. I graduated from Cornell in 1992, and I was a clothing designer. I was actually a textile designer at the time. I got hired three days later, started working at Burlington Industries, which at the time was the biggest domestic textile manufacturer. Worked for them for four years, ended up going to a different small designer from there. From there I went to John and David, and they were still in business. They sent me to Italy to work, and I worked as a designer of clothing for them for probably almost two years. And then right in the middle of that, I was living in Italy and I realized that I didn't want to be doing what I was doing anymore. I felt like I wasn't helping anybody and I didn't feel connected to what I was doing, but I had no idea what else I could possibly do. And I went home. And at that time, I was still sort of freelancing as a textile designer. And I went ahead and got played hooky one day and got into a class at Crunch of Cindy Lee's. Loved the way it was so fun. Loved what she was doing. She was reading everybody's name. And I love telling this story because it really does speak to her ability to bring people into the practice. And you know, I'm always indebted to her because she really did show me what it means to make a real connection with somebody as a teacher and not just kind of, you know, stand up there and do my thing and have my agenda and then go home. She was using everybody's name, she was funny and light and it was just a very different experience in yoga class. She and I ended up talking after class and she said, hey, you know, why don't you apply for my teacher training? And I said sure. And I did. And I made art for all of the answers, like full on little art projects instead of just writing them up. And it was the cutest thing. I still have it. She sent it back to me a few years ago, so kind. And I knew then that I had to do something with it, I just didn't know what. And from there I ended up starting to teach at OM for her for some time, which was great and so sweet and such fun. And then it started to. I wasn't quite adhering to what she was wanting her teachers to be offering, which was a real hybrid of Tibetan Buddhism and Vinyasa yoga. And I suddenly was going off on all these different tangents and it was an amicable parting and we are still friends. And I ended up meeting from there John Trent and studied Anasara yoga for a good 12 years and was certified after my fourth year of studying with him and all the other senior teachers. And only in the past year year did I finally separate myself from it. Even though I should have done so a lot sooner and I was being a coward and not doing so truly. And that's just the truth of it. I ended up being one of the catalysts for a lot of other people to leave, which is fine and good, but I have no hard feelings and I really only want for that whole community and the whole sort of residents around the community to be healed. And amazing because my education was. I feel like I went to the Ivy League school of yoga education, you know what I mean? I really got such a stellar schooling from there. It was just a couple of years ago that I got introduced to, to a woman called Lauren Zander who founded the Handel Group and started to apply her principles life coaching to my family and started to realize that I had a whole bunch of apologies to deliver and that I could actually be best friends with my ex husband. And we are now best, best friends. Yeah, an unbelievable thing. And now coaching only a few clients privately and leading the Work the method in sort of larger context, which feels amazing. And I'm starting to get real feedback and results from people who are being just amazing in their families and at home with their kids, with their parents, their cleaning stuff up. They're just pulling their whole integrity into alignment. And I'm just starting to realize now, with the help of all my mentors at the Handel group, that really every fitness professional should be doing this, should be training people how to sort of align and strengthen their bodies, but also how to do that in their brains, because we don't know that. And the two goals beautifully together. So that's what I'm up to.

That's fantastic. I love it.

Yeah.

So how that whole journey, how has that impacted and influenced and helped you become Jonah's mama?

Well, ever since she was 3, I've been getting coached. And as soon as I started, the first thing that I realized that I wanted to change was even though my husband and I had had a really, I don't want to say a really hard go that was just about to come out of my mouth, it wasn't really hard. We both sort of fell away from each other in a very natural way. His work, my work, everything just became more important than our togetherness, which is sad, but true. And we can both totally recognize and admit that now and even kind of laugh about it a little bit. Jonah, ever since then, was the first thing that I wanted to get better at when I started getting coached. I wanted to stop having temper. And so I brought him into my process, which is what I was coached to do. And it felt really weird for a 33 year old. And there was me going, okay, Jonah, I want to stop yelling at you. I want to stop being mad at you. This is not how really it's supposed to go. I don't want this to happen in your life the way that it happened in mine and went unacknowledged. And he, as a result, two years later, has this insane emotional intelligence that it's shocking to see what he can say in a moment of conflict, that he knows what is happening. He knows how to talk to my heart because I've taught him how to do so in that moment where I'm just about to kind of lose it irresponsibly. And he'll know what to say to bring me back. He'll remind me to breathe. He'll remind me that I'm only mad at myself. I'm not really mad at him. Wow. It's ridiculous.

Wow. I totally have goosebumps.

He really gets it. Really and truly gets it. So it's super exciting in that, you know, this whole process. And there are, I'm sure, other kinds of processes out there. I'm just going on my own experience. Like, I don't know how I would have had this conversation with him even when he was 13, much less 4 and 5, without this process.

That's so amazing. And then you started doing that when. At two.

He was three. When I met Lauren. Yeah. Three and three and almost three and a half.

That's so great.

It's been profound.

I would love to hear just kind of on your. Your personal take and your wisdom kind of in the starting journey of preconception pregnancy, how to have a balanced pregnancy, you know, diving into that. So is there anything that you did to prepare for Jonah?

I definitely, when my husband and I got married, we actually, we took off, straight up eloped, like two months after we met each other. Yep. And we were in New Orleans two weeks before the hurricane under a tree in Audubon Park. And I knew I wanted to get pregnant as soon as possible. And I got pregnant the first time and had a miscarriage. It was one of the empty sac happenings where it's very common. And at about 10 weeks, I went in to see what was up and check on a heartbeat, which is so normal to do at that time. And he was like, actually, the good news is you can't get pregnant. Dr. Moritz in New York. She's hilarious. So light and so awesome. Well, the good news is you can't get pregnant. The bad news is this one is not the one. I was like, okay. You know, it was sad for a minute and I didn't feel, like, the gravity that I think I might have felt were it not for the fact that my doctor was so confident and convinced and awesome that I was fine. And sure enough, three months later, I was pregnant.

Wow.

Totally pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a gal that I want to reference. Her name is Shannon Port. She and I did a ceremony remotely on the phone. We had a little email exchange. She told me how to time it out. She was with me during that time from her home in rural Pennsylvania, and I was in New York, and we did a really beautiful ceremony together that involved all sorts of dancing, yoga, movement, song, ritual. Absolutely beautiful. And literally within the week, conceived. She's now, I think, writing a book called the Art of the Divine Feminine. So it's something to watch out for. Shannon Tortoise. I'll connect you guys. Because she's definitely a goddess who walks her goddess life for sure. Yes. Really amazing. And she was critical and my confidence was critical. And what I did from that point on, upon having that miscarriage was I just started to eat beautifully, cut out all the weirdo destructive habits that have now completely been dissolved from my life. But at that time, I was still a little bit drowning some of them. They all disappeared. And it was time for me to just focus on creating a home for the baby. All of a sudden, the supplements, juicing every single day, eating really clean food, a lot of dark green. And then as soon as I got pregnant, I realized that all I wanted was orange juice, cottage cheese, yogurt, dairy, like big thick dairy things, and meat. I made organic chili every single week and ate of at least three, three times a week with real grass fed ground beef, all kinds of beans, and hilarious McCormick Chili Spice Mix and tomato puree. Happiest ever. And that was like what I ate for my whole pregnancy. And of course my kids love chili and cottage cheese and yogurt. But it was even from preconception, it was a lot of listening, a lot of just paying attention and giving my body what would be optimal. And I definitely read, I read Gabriel Cousins, I read Alejandro at the time was a friend of mine. He didn't have clean out, but he had talked to Alejandro Junger, who wrote the book Clean the Clean Cleanse. And he'd given me a lot of little points about alkalinity and ph balance. I was pretty aware of what I was doing. And I'd already been raw for a while and had been a vegan and a macrobiotic for a while. I tried it all before starting to get pregnant just to see what was awesome. And I'm now in place of just deep moderation. I eat everything.

That's great. During your pregnancy, there wasn't. You didn't follow a certain regimen. You just followed what your body was kind of telling you.

Yeah, correct. It was nice, you know, and when you read about it, when you're going through it, it's like, it's very obvious that, you know, my body wants me, I need the vitamin, I need that, you know, my body wants orange juice, I need vitamin C. You know, your body just tells you what you're. What you're eating.

Definitely. Yeah. I've had grapefruit for the last.

Oh, that's cute.

Grapefruit, like every morning I'm like, grapefruit, grapefruit. I'm like, I've never really eaten grapefruit other than when I was a kid.

So it's very bizarre. That's so sweet. It's so sweet. There's probably a whole bunch of stuff in there that your body just needs.

Yeah, I'm just kind of going with oh and strawberries. Those are my two. Currently you're like chili and cottage cheese.

I'm like strawberries and grapefruit. Start pureeing the strawberries right now, then.

Yeah.

Freezing them into ice cubes. They are going to be gone.

That's so great. So what about what other. I'd love to hear kind of the practices that you had with exercise and meditation. Just some of the kind of self care practices that you had in your pregnancy and that you recommend women really do throughout their pregnancy.

Well, I can say for sure that meditation was very easy when I was pregnant, but it wasn't. I didn't have a promise around it. I didn't have like a specific set deal for myself to meditate. Which is interesting because, you know, I've always now that I'm a little more conscious about being proud of myself in the smallest moments. I have a promise. I have to meditate 11 minutes a day. If I don't do it, I have to do double the next day. And if I don't do that, I have to pay another consequence, which is ludicrous. But I don't even want to say it out here because it's so funny. There was not that in place at the time, not even a little bit. So I would just spontaneously fall into meditation when I was teaching. When I was pregnant, I just put my hands on my belly and just whoa. So beautiful. I did Gurmukh's book a lot. Beautiful, Bountiful, Blissful, I think is the name of the book. And I stayed a lot with her meditations and kriyas and you know, that just always felt good. Whenever I was like having 10 minutes to myself, I just opened up that book and did something from there and it was brilliant. You know, she was amazing. She was so tuned in. She was so right on. Just awesome. And then I did some prenatal classes. Although I wasn't all that inspired by what I was finding around in live classes. So, you know, I just sort of stuck to a home practice and messed around a lot on my own, which is nice.

Very similar.

Yeah, yeah. It's hard to find a teacher that, you know, that really inspires you like crazy. Yeah. When you're pregnant everything is so particular.

Yeah, totally. It has to feel just right.

Yeah, it really does. Otherwise you're so tuned into the truth of it all that it's just like, oh, don't even, not in a judgmental way, but it's like I'm not even going to spend time there because this is my time. You get very, at least I got very selfish and this is how I want it. This is how it's going to be.

Ooh, I like that, the selfish part because a lot of people, I know a lot of people and a lot of women have issues with kind of self care and taking care of themselves and they don't want to be selfish. And what's your thought or your recommendations kind of on the self care and really having it be a time of nurturing. You know, we live in such a fast paced world where you got to be doing something and I'd love to.

Hear your thoughts on that. Well, I was getting colonics every six weeks when I was pregnant.

Yeah.

And I've been getting them already for, you know, seasonally. And then there's one year where I got them once a week. One year where I got them once a month. I've sort of tried every possible iteration of frequency and I love, love, just love getting colonics. I feel so clear in my mind when I do. I'm very careful to supplement with super high, high, high quality, high vibration probiotics if I'm getting colonics of any frequency. And I recommend that strongly for pregnant women who have been doing colonics before the pregnancy. I don't feel like it's safe to start when you haven't been doing colonics before the pregnancy only because you have no idea how your body is going to react. You can't say whether it's the colonic or the pregnancy if you have any sort of adverse reaction. I just don't think it's a great idea to start either yoga or colonics when you're pregnant. However, if you've had it before, then I say rock out and just do it as much as you want. As much as it feels good. Every time I had a colonic when I was a pregnant man, I felt so good. And so there was so much more space and time and you know, not just in my brain but structurally in my organs. I felt it was amazing. Yeah, no, it's amazing straight up. Oh good. All that said it. Nothing would benefit the baby because your whole body is freed up to absorb nutrients in a totally different way. And then what I would say is for somebody who's considering it, who's already had colonics, if you're Listening. You want to make sure that you're going to a place where the machine is the gravity machine and not the sort of mechanical electric machine, mainly because that one will just force the water and whatever else, whatever cocktails they make, the probiotics, chlorophyll, whatever they're. That will force it into your colon rather than allow your colon to determine how much it can take in. And I really do feel that that's crucial when you're pregnant.

Awesome. Very cool. I love it. Did you have the consistent yoga practice throughout? I mean, obviously you're practicing yoga, but did you anything change with your yoga practice? What do you recommend pregnant women do for their yoga practice?

Well, I'm a mixed mind about this because as I said to you in the conversation that we had previously on email, I had a pretty strong practice, and I kept it pretty strong throughout the time that I was pregnant. Felt really good. Didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong. Now, granted, I was 35 and 6 at the time, you know, mostly 35. And I was still. I'm 41 now, and I was still in a place where I was very like, I know what I'm doing. I am. I know exactly the right thing for my body. You know, very sort of highfalutin. I'm still a little bit highfalutin in my writing, but I was very highfalutin in my. In my whole body. And I really was very convinced that I knew what was best. I just kept on practicing, really strong practice. And when it came time to deliver, I had everything in place, the most beautiful. Everything was perfect. I had my acupuncturist there. I was supposed to go to the birthing center. They found meconium in my clothes when my water broke. And so I couldn't stay in the birthing center. I had to go to the hospital floor at St. Luke's in New York. Got to the hospital floor. They let my acupuncturist in. He's like, feverishly twisting needles in my ankles. I'm not dilating. Finally, after, I'm saying, like 18 to 20 hours of sort of mild to medium labor, he's still working on me. Nothing is changing. I am not dilating. It's so strange. After 24 hours, they were like, okay, pitocin. I was like, wow, okay, epidural. You know, as little as I ever would have thought that I would ever ask for that. I was like, you know, it's just been too many hours. I'm in a great deal of Pain. I'm ready. I'm ready to be done. I asked for the epidural, got the potatoes, mask for the epidural, and sure enough, still did not dilate. Now I ask you, because I don't know the answer to this myself, and I never will, but how is it that that happened to me and a lot of my friends and colleagues and students and teachers, that there was no movement in the floor, no dilation, no opening? And I think this is pure speculation. Everybody just put the whole parenthetical right here, this right now speculation. I think that we got Mulabanda to such a degree. We got our pelvic floor so bouncy and strong that dilation was not even a possibility. There was no freedom, there was no softness, there was no listening. There was only just, like, musculature. And this is my firm belief that that was my fault. Not that there was anybody to blame, but I was like, I wish that it would have been less chaturanga, less standing poses and more on the side of gurmukh. Listening, meditating, sitting, squatting. I did all of that, but sort of tangentially when I felt like it, and then just kept on moving. And I don't think that was to my benefit. And all of that said, you know, after 30 hours, when I started to get septic and his heart rate started to go down after each contraction. And mind you, his dad is a doctor, so he's watching the thing, I'm watching his face. And finally they came and they were like, okay, airlift now, meaning the C section for the kid. I was like, woo yee haw. Let's do this. You know, it was the last thing that I would have ever wanted except that having gone through the whole labor, you know, and they were very cool and they were like, look, you've been through labor. You did all the sort of respiratory benefits that your child could need or want. He's had this time taken out. It's not safe anymore. We're in unsafe territory now. I'm sure it would have been fine had I done it, you know, who's to say? I was so happy. Take him out, please. We had the best time. He came out, he was nursing within, I don't know, an hour maybe at the most. On the nursing. Perfect. You know, it was, I will note, so the endorphins crazy. And if you have a. I mean, the natural is even more so. No, right.

That's amazing. And there's so many things to unpack in that.

Yeah, for sure.

I'm Very interested. Like on the yoga, the intense practice. So you recommend women to not be as intense and intense for you is that like an hour and a half to two hour practice, like full on kind of power yoga?

You know, intense for me just means more vinyasa, more standing poses, more mula bandha. Like that regardless of duration, you know what I mean? Duration doesn't really come into play here as much as like, oh gosh, it's just so strong, you know, my legs are strong, my lower belly is strong. Like I was the kind of gal that had like the crazy, you know, I had the obliques through the belly.

That's pretty impressive in a way.

In a way I just, I wouldn't recommend it anymore. I just wouldn't. And now I'm a little bit older. I'm not, you know, I'm old, old, old. But I can say that I really do feel strongly that if I had a daughter, for example, this is the best sort of of what I would do. I would definitely tell her to, you know, practice listening, go to kundalini classes, practice communing with your kids. You know, that's what I would say.

And then exercise obviously is super important for a pregnant woman. Just the softer exercises, walking, not as masculine. Yang.

Yes, that's what I would do. I mean practices more yin, play more yin. I just don't feel like anything else is really called for aside from that. Yeah, great.

Very cool. Awesome. Thank you. And then is there any specific poses that you mentioned, squatting, but that are really good for a pregnant woman and then preparation for birth.

Definitely squatting. And definitely I can't complain about standing poses in terms of making me strong to go through labor. I definitely felt like it's such a double edged sword. Having this whole conversation is so much contradiction because. And on the other side of it, I felt amazing the whole time. I felt so empowered and I felt so clear in my body. And you know, there was there was this, I guess, who's to say what had to do with me being young and fresh and you know, kind of needing to feel in control, like kind of the control freak aspect. And who's to say that it was really just about me doing what my body needed. But I feel very strongly that the squats, a little bit of standing poses and a lot of breathing and just listening, not even Pranayam. I don't know that it's really the best thing to even try and control our breathing when we're pregnant.

Yeah.

But again, every time now when people ask me, I Just defer to Glamouk. I defer to any great, respected Kundalini teacher who has had a baby. You know, there's an understanding.

And then for the. I love that too. And there's obviously so many things that you say and everything around the breath. So you just recommend just focusing on your breath. Could you give. You know, obviously there's somebody who's going to listen to this who is a yoga practitioner and somebody who isn't a yoga practitioner. What guidance would you give them around their breath and how to focus on their breath and practice breathing?

I go to the simplest possible place, which is how I instruct people who are in my classes, too. Pardon me. It's just about making a big house for the baby, as far as I'm concerned. Make as much space as you can in the space of your. Of your belly for that kid. And there's such. Oh, God, it's just so nice to feel the openings like that.

And then breathing down into your belly, kind of expanding the belly.

Yes. Even more specifically, I always instruct when I'm teaching pregnant girls to breathe behind the back of the baby. Like you're 18 weeks, it's not that obvious now, but give it another three, four or five weeks and you're going to feel the movement.

Yeah.

And you're going to be able to know exactly where you have to to be breathing right behind that baby and making more space in all of your organs even. It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm hearing, like, the common thread, too, of listening, like listening to your body, listening to your baby. Can you share a little bit on how do we truly listen?

Well, I mean, so much of this for me has been about just making space in my. In my day for that.

Yeah.

Like, I have no idea how to do that. I did not have any clue even how to listen, how to. How to pay attention, how to.

You.

Know, how to really kind of be present for myself. And up until fairly recently, I really didn't. I thought I knew I had some ideas about it, but I wasn't doing the best job of it. When we sit down, especially when we're pregnant, lay down at night, wake up in the morning, it doesn't take long. It's just a couple of minutes where you can just put your hands on your belly and just tune in to what's happening. The most beautiful thing on planet Earth to just sit and listen to the way in which your body is receiving a life. Coolest thing.

I'm in awe every day. Like, what really yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then just trusting that, you know, we have medical technology and we have doctors and we have books and we have experts, and we have all these people telling us a lot of things which are extremely beneficial. But for me, it's been the practice of trusting my intuition, you know, like, okay, this is what I'm feeling the baby needs. And trusting that that's right. Not like some expert is going to tell me exactly what I need to do. That's been challenging for me, too.

Yep, I get it. No, I really do get it. There's a point at which, when we are trying to make a choice about something, we'll look at four different books and 10 different websites and just get more and more confused as the day goes on. And suddenly it really is just about, you know what? I actually just need to listen to what my body wants. I don't need to have 4,000 pounds of greens right now, even though I do like that sometimes. What I need to have is some Mary's Gone crackers with cream cheese. And that feels really good. Makes me smile, makes me happy. It's so fun.

Yeah, that's so great. What I also love is. It's very much. Which I'd love to hear your thoughts on is, you know, you touched on the birth as well. But, like, there's this feeling, I think, for a lot of us women where we want it to be perfect. Like, we want to do pregnancy perfectly, we want the perfect birth, we want to be the perfect parent. And that can be exhausting.

Oh, God, it's terrible. I mean, I was there. I was there. I tried. You know, I'm just telling you right now, unrealistic. And as perfect as I always want my whole life to be, it just doesn't. It doesn't quite go like that. It really just happens to be where we are at. The we can manifest a result, and before we know that, we don't even realize that we're manifesting all the time. I manifested the fact that my kid was a C section in some way. Maybe it's the way that my intuition is telling me by getting too strong in my pelvic floor, quite literally. And maybe not. Who's to say, but I manifested it, and it's just not that big of a deal. It just is what it is, okay? And so whatever the result is that you want to manifest, what's fun about this is that you can manifest it. And you might as well. Whatever you feel like you want to manifest, go for it. Use the best of your Ability to actually visualize it as so and then realize that, you know, maybe it'll happen like that, maybe it won't be okay. Gonna be okay. There are plenty of times when I've, you know, quote unquote, manifested some results. And then it was slightly different, slightly less, quote unquote, perfect than I wanted it to be. And it turned out to be absolutely perfect. No, for me to have had the C section experience, after 30 hours of a normal, you know, regular labor experience, I got to have it all. That, to me, I now see, is perfect because I can to people on all sides of the spectrum instead of just being like, oh, yeah, I have this perfect three hour in and out push for 15 minutes. That's awesome and completely amazing, but not for everybody. And so who's to say what's right and what's not?

I love that. The idea of visualizing your ideal and then whatever happens is perfect. Like that is perfect because that's what's happening. So how do we embrace that?

Exactly.

Yeah. I think. Do you think that's one of the biggest challenges for mothers and parents of, like, wanting to be the perfect parent and not actually being present to what is actually happening?

Yeah, I think that happens to me a lot.

That's one of my anticipated. That seems to be. I want it to be happening like this. It's not happening like this. It's wrong.

Yeah, no, you'll see. You'll try and do that. You'll make yourself crazy and then you'll realize that, like, actually everything is fine just the way it is. And all you can do at a certain point, just be a little bit more present to what's possible. You know, what other. What other options are there? Because right now nobody's hearing anybody, nobody's listening, and it's really, you know, it's not the. If you're not present, you're the mom. If you're not present, nobody else will feel like they are being present. If you're not listening to your intuition, nobody else will. A lot of people are kind of. Not really. They don't really believe this. But we as women in general, mothers or otherwise, we are the arbiters of what happens in our homes. No uncertain terms, like, if we don't pay attention to how we're being inside of ourselves, know what we're kind of doing internally, it's never going to work. It will never work. Nobody will ever respond the way we want them to respond.

That's why it's very crucial that we do the inner work.

You know? Right. Indeed. Indeed.

I love that. And I think it's a great reminder for all of us women, too, that the power that we do have to actually influence our environment in a beautiful way. You know, like, what happens. And you talk about this in your yoga classes, which I love, is us being present and calm and peaceful and loving influences our environment. It influences everyone around us. And it's a gift. Like actually seeing our inner work as a gift. I love that.

Totally true.

So what about opening our hearts? I know you're like, I just think of you, and I'm like, oh, open heart. How can we work to open up our hearts and prepare to start a family or open our hearts with our family? Like, why is that so important to live from our heart?

I think that ultimately what we're teaching our kids to do is live the way that we're composing ourselves internally. Our outward behavior is barely even important because what we're doing internally is what they're picking up on anyway. You know what I mean? So if we don't mind that aspect of our experience, they are going to grow up only learning how to do what we're not saying. You know what I mean? It's a very interesting state of affairs. It's not. In a way, it almost is a way in which we can put attention on not what we're doing or saying, but what we're thinking about. And it goes back to, you know, what I love so much about the coaching, which is, you know, I know I'm doing great things for my body by doing yoga, but I don't really know what I'm doing for my mind here. You know what I mean? I'm not really paying attention to what I'm addressing and how I'm. How I'm holding myself in my mind.

Mm.

It's, like, so sad. You know, the kids are only picking up on what we're doing in our hearts and not at all. I mean, in our minds and not at all what we're doing with our bodies. You know, they're seeing that, and that's just making things more confusing because they can pick up on what we're thinking and feeling faster and more. More clearly. And I think the biggest responsible that we have, the biggest responsibility that we have as parents, is to, like, clean up the mental and emotional space.

Beautiful. And doing that, preparing, like, during pregnancy, I mean, it's like an endless process, Right? It's not like all of a sudden they're, oh, I feel clear.

No, no, unfortunately, it really is like, okay, how am I exactly going to play with my space of. In a way, it's almost like I want to prepare myself for telling the truth to anyone, anytime when I'm pregnant so that I can be clear with my kid about what I'm saying to them when I'm not.

You know, creating kind of boundaries, learning how, like, not boundaries, but just, yeah, kind of being clear about where we are.

Exactly, exactly.

That's like a life. I mean, I think about that and it's like, I think about all the work that I've done until this point, and it's been a lifelong practice to get to the point where I actually feel like I have an understanding of what that means. Yeah, it's work to be like, how real for me.

It's the wildest thing ever. We don't, you know, we don't really. We don't really pay attention to any of this until suddenly, like, my biggest wake up call came when Jonah, right before I met Lauren, maybe even right after actually, when I got mad about something, I don't know. And he all of a sudden, he got mad about something else and he slammed a door. It was three and a half. Slammed a door in my face. I was like, oh, good Lord, this is all my fault. You know, this is all my creation. Okay, help. Ayuto, help me, please. Somebody help me. What do I do? And I immediately when Lauren said, you know, what do you want to work on first? I was like, my rage, please. Thank you very much.

My.

Please just deal with that first. And from that, you know, going in and getting that off my system, you know, everything else kind of followed. And that if there was ever an intuitive choice that I made, it was a good one. It was that, you know, don't worry about the romance part. Don't worry about the whole, you know, we'll clean up the relationship part. We'll fix it with daddy, we'll fix it with everybody. Fix it with mom, my parents, everybody. I gotta get a hold of my temperature. Just starting with the self. Yeah, starting with that and starting with, you know, and that goes back to learning how to listen. So now I can listen when my. When my little habitual pattern of starts to rumble in there like an animal, like a little lion in a cage. I can be like, oh, hey, I am not listening to that animal. I am the tamer of that animal. You. You listen to me. Not happening. Not no space. Sorry for this. No space. End story.

Mm, I love that too, because I. I don't think I've ever Heard it said in that way when you just said, you know, like, you know, Jonah slamming the door. And for most parents, it's what's wrong with my child. My child. I need to figure out my child. And he has a temper. But like, I love that you had the responsibility, like, took the self responsibility of like, this is my creation. Like, this is my. What do I need to work on? Like having your children be kind of a gauge for what we need to work on.

100%. 100% everything. The one most valuable aspect of what I've learned from the handout group is that it's me. It's only me. I have nobody else to turn to if I want to change something.

And was that challenging to implement into parenting? Because that's very different than obviously most people look at children. The children are acting up. The children, you know, I have a problem child. It's never. It's me. So was that a challenging process for you to kind of work with or you. It was natural.

The minute she said it, I was like, oh, man. You know, I knew right away. I was like, oh, that's totally the case. That's me. And here's the fun part. It was in my family too. It was in my house too. And even more fun. Nobody's to blame if I spend time blaming myself and feeling bad because I have such a bad temper. Guess what doesn't happen? A solution. Nothing changes. If I spend time blaming my dad for being a rager, who by the way, is like the most genius, sweetest ever. We hold hands when we're together. Now, if I spend time.

No.

But if I spend time blaming him, guess what doesn't happen? Healing. He can't be blamed because it wasn't his house. And then it was in his dad's house and then his dad's house. All I can do upon realizing this is that I'm blaming anybody. Go back to what you were saying before I get to use my intuition, listen to how people think about it, own my responsibility in it, and evolve this trait for my family. Not living in me anymore. It's not living in my house anymore. Does not happen anymore. I done here. End of story.

That's powerful. Amazing. Yeah. Just the other day when I was saying that I did your on yoga glow your prenatal. You were talking about that, you know, your parents and not blaming and the power that we have to kind of change what's always happened, you know, and that's like our. I totally. I mean, maybe it was a pregnancy, but I Just think it was you just delivering it to. So amazingly beautiful. I totally just started crying and I was like, any trauma that I've had, like, this is an opportunity for it to stop. You know, any, any. Anything that's happened in my life that I can actually change that pattern.

Yeah, that's your. That's your what I always say when I'm talking about this and gets me so fired up and so excited. That is our greatest privilege as a human being is to evolve the traits that do not serve us anymore, that do not serve our families without one ounce of blame. It's the most beautiful thing that we can do.

I love that too because as you were saying with, you know, how cesarean in your birth that now you have the wisdom that you've gone through the whole thing. So anything that we've had, that's part of our genius, it's part of who we are and it's our gift to the world in many ways. Right?

Yeah, exactly. Right. I'm glad, I'm glad it's happened. You know, at the time I was like, oh my God. Yeah, you know, perfect sand. Totally failed. Did not fail. Girl, you did the best that you could. You had your acupuncturist in there. Everything was according to and you know, didn't happen. And that's okay. I know plenty of friends who had a most beautiful home birth in the water. Oh my God. Amazing. It's so great. And then I think about my experience and you know what? I had the biggest same smile on my face when I told my kids it didn't matter where I was, didn't matter what I was hooked up to. He was in the world. And that is something that it's worth it to remind every single pregnant woman. Doesn't matter how it happens. Just get the baby out healthy, the best thing you can. Plan it all. You want to do the best that you can. And that's, that's the best there is.

I love it. So, you know, you have the baby, the healthy baby. Do you have, you know, the postpartum process? What, what do you wish you would have known before, I mean, after you gave birth that you didn't know? Like what would you pass on wisdom wise around the postpartum period.

I'm gonna curse. Is that okay? Yes. Take a shitload of Omega 3 DHAs. Because it really made a difference in the days when I forgot to take it. My mood was different, I promise you. I was low, I was weird, I was testy, impatient, mad. And when I would Take them. I was so much more balanced and even and feeling, I don't want to use the words in control, but feeling in control. You know what I mean? Like feeling like I was in charge and nobody else was in charge. There was an element of that that was missing when I forgot to take that stuff interestingly.

And you took a lot of it. Like, do you remember how much you took of it or you just remember taking a lot of it?

I remember doing like two, three times the recommended amount and just I kept checking my body and making sure that was right and fine. But that was what I did and it was working. It totally worked. Totally worked.

That's awesome. Sudhir, was it like, you hear numerous stories of like, it was just total. I mean, it's a total shift, a transition and it was just overwhelming. The sleep deprivation and, you know, just, you're kind of a zombie. And then I've also heard, like, it's the most amazing time and you just started there with your baby and you're on a high. So what, what was your experience and what do you recommend and how to navigate like the first six weeks of having your precious little baby with you? Sleep deprivation, self care, everything.

I didn't really think about it. I didn't really think about it. I had him sleeping on my chest until he was eight weeks old. And then I put him in his crib. Yep. And I just, I fed him as often as I could, as often as he wanted. And then right around eight weeks, I read the book by Gina Ford, that British maternity nurse. What's it called? Oh, my God, I can't remember what it was called. The weirdest thing. Healthy. I forget. It has a blue cover. Gina Ford. And it basically gives you this very stringent schedule. Eat, coast, take a shower. Like the most unbelievable clear instruction you've ever seen.

Wow.

Hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. I have to figure out what it was called. I've had it on book list before. I'll figure it out and I'll get back to you.

Gina Ford. Search for Gina Ford.

Yes. I obeyed that pretty well. And I got him onto a schedule that made a lot of sense to me. I breastfed him until I was 2, until he was 2. And literally right on his second birthday, maybe a couple days, a couple weeks before we were done. Very natural. My husband got him up and gave him yogurt and that was the end of that.

Great. And then did you. Because this is also a big topic for women because there's, you know, more women are working nowadays and you know, Just the modern woman. What did you work right after? Did you take time off? What was your process? And what have you found that works best for your clients and students?

I took off for six weeks, and by the end of it this week, I was so, so, so ready. I couldn't even stand how ready I was, you know? Yep. And I had a sitter all lined up, and she's always been part time with us and just perfect. Completely perfect. Couldn't be more perfect.

So you just went back to work part time?

Yeah, and she was part time, too. It was. It's just perfect. And new mods. 5 1/2 years later, she has now just had her own baby.

Wow.

So cute. She's still with us. Still with us part time.

That's so awesome.

It is awesome. I never had to worry about any of that stuff. You know, I have a stand in who comes. She came when Anna was on maternity leave for her six weeks. And by the time she had six weeks under her belt, she's like, okay, ready.

Nice.

I'm ready to have Jonah again. I'm done with this, you know? And she, you know, she's only part time, so she gets a really nice amount of time with her own daughter.

Yeah.

And a really nice amount of time with my kids. Beautiful, beautiful thing.

Amazing. So how do you. I mean, because you are like, you know, all over the place. You travel, you have your own business. You're bomb, like, staying healthy. You're just like a rock star. How do you keep it all balanced?

Well, I've had my first cold. I have my first cold, which has lasted a week and a half. So I'm not super healthy right now. And I drink green juice and eat kale every single day of my life like an animal. My real issue is that I was able to take Jonah with me for most of his infancy. I took him everywhere. And then as the years went on, and now he's in kindergarten. He was in preschool for a while, and I could dip him out of preschool, no problem. It was really easy. But now he's in kindergarten and they don't really want him absent as much as he was. So now I pick and choose very carefully where he comes. And if he's going to be over a week of school, I'll arrange it with, you know, whoever I'm being hosted, that it's of a particular length of time. And I have just. I plan it much more carefully now that he's of school age.

Yep. And then how do you. How do you. Or what are Some tips. I know you gave me a great book, nurture the spirit or recommendation for it, but tips on nourishing, nourishing our children, giving the space for our children to flourish.

It goes back to the whole listening and your intuition. There's such a thing as limbic resonance. There's a book called General Theory of Love which is really good too. And I've been reading it and writing about it for a while and they're getting there first taste of their own emotional life from us. Second hand. You know, when a kid falls, they look at us. Your reaction and then I'll give you mine. Crazy.

That's amazing. Isn't it amazing? I'm always shocked that that's like how much we influence them.

Like, you better be super cool, otherwise your kid's gonna be a big crier. Be cool. You know, the kid, kid falls, be cool about it. Okay, dude. Okay, man.

It's all good.

Good, good. That took me a little second to get used to that.

I can imagine. So what have been some of the. Or what has been the biggest challenge or learning lesson that you've learned and how have you overcome it in becoming a mama?

Put me first and not him. As much as I, you know, as much as he really is first and primary.

I.

Have to take care of myself first. I have to cook for myself first. I have to make sure that I'm off on doing for myself first so that he gets the best of me. End of story.

Yeah, that's huge.

All these women, women that I'm coaching now, they're like, oh, I don't have enough time for myself. I give, you know, I'm really there for my kids. It's like, well, there's a whole bunch of unpacking of the whole martyrdom that has been passed down from generation to generation.

Right.

Which is very prevalent and awesome. But so much more about just making sure that I feel nurtured and fed and safe. And then he gets that. He really does get it.

And like you were saying, it's a demonstration, right? I mean, you being nourished and loved and taken care of.

Exactly.

Teaches him how to do that for himself.

Yeah, exactly, Exactly.

Yeah. I can totally feel that as being a challenge, a lesson to learn because there's these precious little beings that you want to take care of. You want to make sure they're okay and everything is taken care of.

Exactly, Exactly.

Awesome. Very cool. I have one more kind of question. Perfect. Wrap up. I know that in almost every class I think that I've taken with you or done on Yoga Glow, you just always come back to gratitude. Like there's just like such a powerful presence that you have carrying gratitude. So can you just, you know, why is gratitude so important? And why do we want to cultivate this practice as parents?

I think gratitude, how do we cultivate? It's ultimately the only way that I want to communicate with people. And so we have a cute little practice of every night talking about what we're grateful for. Whenever we sort of lose perspective, somebody reminds the other one about what to be grateful for. It's a way of looking at the.

World.

You know what I mean, through that lens. And it really does make changes. Changes the way we see anything and everything. It really does. It makes everything better. It makes everything more accessible and visible and healing, truly healing to look at the world through that lens. And then you teach your kid about that. Something else. I love it.

In the yoga. Some yoga class I was doing with you. I'm not sure which one it was. Well, not really doing with you, but I was on the computer. But you're talking about being pregnant and being a parent is a privilege.

I love that.

I love that idea that we're privileged to be parents.

Yes. That's. That's all it is right there. That's all it is. This is our biggest privilege on planet Earth. That they're going hand in hand, evolving the traits of our family that don't work and handing that over to a healthy person. Being a parent.

Beautiful.

I could talk to you about this all day. And now I have to, I swear. And now I have to, like, have a client coming in seven minutes and all I want to do is continue this conversation.

Awesome. I love it. I love the idea that we are all privileged. That I'm privileged. You're privileged. Anyone who's listening to this call is privileged. I love that. Coming. Living in the world in that way. It's so beautiful.

So, yeah.

Deep, deep, deep gratitude to you.

Oh, man. Thank you.

I love it. So tell us where we can find more about you and all of your fabulousness. Website.

Well, the website right now is called Art of Attention. Art of Attention. But that is going to then be subsumed sometime over the summer by a. Sort of a more umbrella website, elenabrower.com and the Art of Attention will be the blog within there.

Oh, fantastic.

So either way you'll find me.

Wonderful. Fantastic. Thank you for all of your wisdom and your love and your presence. Appreciate it. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. And please keep in touch with me as your pregnancy progresses, because I can't wait, cannot wait to see this baby. It's going to be the tallest, cutest baby you've ever seen. Emphasis on the word cute. And emphasis on the word time.

Tall and cute. That's awesome. Yes. I will definitely keep you in the loop. We always joke, like, who's the baby gonna look like? And Brian and I look so much alike. We have the same color eyes, like, the same facial structure.

Tall.

We're like, it's gonna look a lot like us.

It's gonna look like both of you. Yes.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

Well, thank you. Thank you.

Yes, ma'. Am. Such a pleasure. And just stay in touch. I can't wait to talk to you again soon.

Yes, definitely. Have a beautiful day.

And thank you. Thank you.

All right.

Thank you so much, honey.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Mama Goddess. Sending you lots of love and blessings. If you'd like to connect more, go to mamagoddess. Com. Until next time. Keep rocking it and have an awesome day.