Understanding Your Children's Needs with Naomi Aldort

Welcome to Mama Goddess. I'm your host, Alexandra J. Johnson. This podcast is all about rocking your goddess life, creating vibrant health and celebrating motherhood and family life. It's about living an authentically awesome life. Let's have some fun.

Hello, I'm Alexandra J. Johnson and today's guest is Naomi Aldork. Naomi is the author of the book Raising Raising Ourselves and it is now in 13 languages. Parents from around the globe seek her advice by phone, in person, through her workshops, tele classes and her book. She is an engaging public speaker who travels worldwide and shares her wisdom in lectures, conferences, colleges and private events. Naomi's guidance has transformed the lives of families around the world. Her advice columns and interviews appear in Attachment Parenting, Homeschooling and other progressive parenting magazines worldwide in English and other languages. Naomi, hello. So great to be chatting with you. I've gotten so much value from your book and so much value from the videos and everything that you share. So thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us.

Well, you're welcome.

Yeah, I would love to. I'd love to start off with kind of the start of a child's life. Let's start off with the baby's needs. How do we know what a baby's needs are?

Well, it's a very important question because in our society we have become a little detached from babies in terms of how we give birth and where we put them. And that question is only difficult if we are detached from the baby. If the baby is born in a natural way and directly into the mother's arms, then you would always know what they need because they let you know what they need. So the answer is, you don't need to know in advance. The baby will let you know. But I will tell you some in advance anyway, which you feel like, oh, yeah, of course, that's what a baby needs. They need to be on your body basically all the time. And they'll let you know that, because if you put them away, they'll cry, which is the way they let you know that something is not alright. They need to be born naturally and directly into mother's arms. And they need to breastfeed whenever they choose to, whenever they request and give a signal. And they need constant care. They need to be slept with. Never, never be left away from the body. Because their sense of existence actually depends on being constantly touched. They don't have the concept I exist remembering it. They don't see themselves in the mirror. And if somebody isn't touching them constantly, they don't know they exist, and it's extremely terrifying, actually, especially when they fall asleep, but at all times. So they need constant body touch, breastfeeding, responsiveness to their needs. And they need eye contact, human emotional connection, knowing that they're wanted. And they let you know when they don't. And when you keep them on your body, their signals don't have to include very much crying, very long crying or screaming, because by holding them on your body, you respond to their signals. You learn their signals, even their signals to go to the bathroom. You learn them even before they go. They actually. You can even go without diapers because you know when they're gonna go. And you have enough time to take them to the sink or the toilet and hold them above something or outdoors if you want to, or if you use diapers, you can take them off right away. And they learn to want to be dry. And those kind of babies are out of diapers very, very quickly, especially if you use cotton diapers. So those are the basic needs of the baby. Just be with, be with, be with, and respond to their cues before they actually need to even cry about it. Crying about it means you didn't respond in the first place. I'm not saying babies don't cry otherwise, but sometimes they cry because they need to. They have some, you know, like emotional unleashing. They have fears, anxieties. Everything is a little too overwhelming. So we need to be responsive to those things, too, to be with them when they cry, to take them away from too much stimulation, not take them around shopping and where there's just too much going on. Give them whatever their nature. And we learn their nature very quick when they're on our bodies.

Sometimes the baby's crying because a lot of people with their baby will think, oh, the baby needs their diaper changed, or the baby needs to eat, or the baby needs to sleep. And sometimes it's an emotional need. Can you talk about babies crying and how we learn the emotional needs of the baby?

Well, most babies, if they are carried on, breastfed on demand, slept with and not ever left alone to sleep, just sleep on your body until you go to bed. Then they don't cry for a need that you are going to meet, like breastfeeding or change diaper, because you learn their signals before crying, like I said before. So when they cry, usually that means there's something else going on. You still need to see what it is. It could be they're hurting and there's nothing you can do about it, or there's something you can do. About it. You know, a tooth is coming and it's hurting them. They're uncomfortable, they're too hot, too cold, need more motion, less motion. Something pokes them in their clothes. That happens a lot in bed. They are often too hot and that's why they move around and thrash around. So you want to make every effort to find what it is. Because when they cry it means first that initially you haven't met their need, that it could be a need. But if all. It seems like everything, all the needs are met, they're comfortable and fed and not tired and healthy and you're handling all the needs and they're still crying and they seem to just go for those bursts where they're closing their eyes and screaming, then you can rest pretty assured that they need to cry. And also we can't always be sure, but if we can't find what it is, then they may be crying about the fact that we're not finding what it is. But that too is a need to cry since we don't need know what it is. So either way, in that point, calming them down is not a good idea because they need to cry. There is either a reason that we're not picking up and so there is a valid reason to cry about, or they just need to cry because life was too scary today. Or the memory of birth comes back or the faces of grown up people looking too close is really terrifying and people do that. Or being touched or being changed. Diaper. Exactly when it was the middle of a reverie and you just interrupted and need to express feelings. And at that time you want to hold the baby and validate the feelings without drama. You don't have to say we don't know how much they understand. It's more your tone of voice. You want to let them know it's all right to cry. Basically that your wisdom, like I know, I understand and I'm with you and I love you. And not having your tone, anything that shows an alarm or an anxiety to stop them from crying. So you want the baby to feel fine about needing to cry and you want to be with them until they're done. I mean, you're staying with them anyway. But just be really present to the crying and just hold them. So say I know every now and then give them a kiss and be present.

That's so beautiful. I love it too. I definitely resonate and this is how I am choosing to raise our little one when we have. But it's interesting in our culture, especially the western cultures, this idea of having a baby cried out and not putting them in a separate room and that if you give too much attention that you'll be spoiling them. So could you address that? Because it seems to be a common thing that people say to me, and I hear people say a lot of times around this topic, there is no.

Such thing as spoiling a child by taking care of them. You know, if you take care of your garden, you don't spoil it. If you take care of a human being, you don't spoil them. The opposite, you nurture them. So that concept is definitely foreign to anything I teach. Taking care of a child and responding to their need, it's just like taking care of an adult. If you need to cry, does it spoil you? If I listen to you and respond to your need, or if you need to eat or to sleep and. And someone or yourself take care of you and feed you and get you a bed, does that spoil you? So taking care of things well does not spoil, but the opposite, it nurtures. Yes.

I love that. Very cool. I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for addressing that. I know it's not in your work, but I know a lot of people have that. I know a lot of pediatricians recommend a lot of things that go against what you teach.

Yeah, well, it goes, it comes from the Victorian era and from old, very old Germanic ideas. And it's fear based fear that the child will take advantage of us, will think that they can get whatever they want and all kind of anxieties that have nothing to do with reality. But people would say that it has to do with reality and that children who get whatever they want become little brats. And that is true. And I do not teach that the child should get whatever they want. But loving them does not spoil them. Giving them whatever they want and getting panicky around, oh, no, he's crying. We need to stop his crying. So what I talked before about also knowing when a child needs to cry and being with them about the crying, that gives a child a clarity. When I need to express free, I express feelings. And my mother is there for me rather than my mother panics and will give me whatever I want. Which is what makes little brats, as people call them. They're not little brats. They're doing what we teach them. If we teach them, if you cry, I need to stop you and I'll do whatever. I'll paint the sky purple to get you to stop. Then they say to themselves, not in words, but they learn, oh, wow, you know, if I scream hard enough, I get whatever I want, and then they would use that tool. And that's not healthy and not anything that I teach. And that has nothing to do with loving them and caring for them fully and responding to them fully.

So you talk about, I know, a lot of the wants and the primal needs. Is that what you're talking about right now?

Yes.

How do we decipher what a child, what a baby wants and the primal needs? What are the difference? So we don't, you know, create little brats?

Yes, yes. Well, with infants and babies, everything they ask for is a primal need. Gradually they start to have wants that are not primal needs. And it's hard to tell you how to distinguish it. It's more about the content, you know, Wanting a certain toy or a candy is definitely not a primal need. Primal needs are rooted in emotional well being. So the primal need is to be loved, to be cared for, food or nourishment, breastfeeding, sleep, being held, being responded to. So the primal needs are both physiological and emotional context. Needs, not content of wanting something that isn't essential for existence. So love is essential for existence. Responsiveness, connection, eye contact, being able to know I'm cared for, sleeping with somebody, or else I'm terrified. Those are primal needs. But when they start wanting a certain candy or wanting to be first in line with some other kids, or wanting to pull the dishes off the shelf, well, that one can be sometimes a primal need. When they're, they're little and they just really want to explore everything. So I would put them on the floor next to a cabinet that has only plastic dishes, or lock the cabinets that are not. So that's. That's how you look. I think when people fall for the wants and the whims and think that they can't say no to a child, who would want to throw sand on a friend or who wants a candy or must watch this TV show or whatever, that's when we have to learn to be the leaders in the child's life and make it clear what is safe and what is not. Because the child cannot know what causes harm long term. And it's not a primal need. A candy is not a primal need. A TV show is not a primal need. But wanting my parent responsiveness, a primal need. So when I want to watch a TV show, my mother doesn't have to give me a TV show, but my primal need for connection with her and understanding that I want a TV show is a primal need. So even when the need is not primal There is another primal need at that moment, like possibly a need for attention. You know, the baby or the child may want to watch TV because they're not getting attention, they're not getting someone to be with. So oh no, I don't have to give them the tv, but I need to stop reading my book or washing the dishes and be with my child. Because they're not very good at self entertaining at a young age and they need company. So the needing company is the primal need. The TV is not. So when the need is not primal, there is still a primal need that has to be addressed and you need to find what it is.

That's so great, I love that too. Of finding the primal need. So what do you do as an example? Somebody, maybe a child wants candy and you know, you don't want to give the candy, but you don't want to give in to them. How do you communicate with them around that? What's the best way to communicate?

Well, it's the wrong question because ask instead. And I do that a lot where I switch the question in order to create clarity. The question is how to not create that situation. So why take a child to the supermarket and put them next to candy to the aisle with candies? I wouldn't even take them there. My children didn't know candy existed for years and years. But at the same time I met their need that are primal for sweet food because they do need it. And I created sweet food at home that's 100% healthy. From the beginning, I didn't know to create always 100%. I've learned along the way. But if we give them the amount of sweet nourishing stuff that they need with a hundred percent organic, healthy, to my opinion, raw ingredients, then they're satisfied and they're not all nuts about getting all this other sweet stuff. In fact, they end up not even liking it as an example. So I would prevent the whole situation. So I call it. I teach parents that there are situations when I say to the parent, you burnt the rice, you made a mistake. So you bring your child to some party and there is candy there and the child wants candy and start having a tantrum if you tell them no. Well, why did you take them to such a party in the first place? Or would you ask your friends in the party to bring only healthy food and bring enough yourself that your child likes so you can easily tell them, you can't eat this, but you can eat this because some of your friends have brought good stuff and you brought good Stuff. So there are a lot of ways to not put the child in the face of such frustrations or at least minimize it. I'm not sure it's possible for everybody to completely eliminate it. It wasn't for me. But in those times that we had to encounter something unwanted, I made sure I thought about it in advance, made sure to bring alternative, healthy stuff, made sure they had some good food so they're not, like, terribly hungry or whatever the seduction may be. And then I am willing to lead the way. And because my children trust me, because I'm always on their side, it doesn't have to be a problem. Because if they actually ask me, can I eat this? When we went in public places, is this healthy? Because they trust me? And then if I say, no, this is not good, but you can eat that. They trust me, and they would not eat the stuff that isn't healthy.

Right. I love that. I would love for you to share on that trust, because I think that's so important in our relationships.

And.

How do we create the relationship where our children trust us? Because it seems like so many children don't trust their parents. They're inconsistent and they yell. And, you know, there's a variety of reasons that they wouldn't trust them. So how do we go about cultivating trust with our children?

Well, you actually don't have to do anything. Just don't kill it. Because by nature, they completely trust you. But when you start going against them, when they experience you stopping them, thwarting their direction, that's when they start not trusting you. So if a baby goes toward the shelf of books and wants to pull all the books out, if you do too many, no, no, no, Then you're gonna lose trust. But if instead you either let that one happen, or if it's very important books that you don't really want him to damage, you put a pile of old magazines in front of him, or you replace it. You put the books away, and you put the magazines in, and he'll keep pulling them out. But this time it won't be something so important to you. The child sees that you're doing something for them, not against them. So stay away. Even if you need to stop a child from what they're doing because it's not safe, stop it in a way that they see you as being on their side. So there is an example in my book, my book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves, there is an example of a child on the fourth floor sitting on the window sill, and the father or mother I don't remember told this child many times not to sit on the windowsill. And when she called me on the phone, she or he or them together called me to ask what to do. And they said, you know, we were exasperated again, the child was on the windowsill. And what I taught them is a different response to it. And when they did that, the child never sat on the windowsill again. And what they did is they came in and say, oh, I'm so scared when I see you sitting on the windowsill. And they gave him a stool to stand on so they can still see. The child was just really loving to look down at the street and at the cars going by and people. So they provided a chair. And the mother said to the child, you know, when you sit there, I'm so scared. Will you please always use this tool? I'll leave it here. And you can always use the stool. And the child said, but, Mom, I wasn't going to fall. And she said, I know, but I'm still scared. Would you please stand on the stool? And the child was willing. So that's showing up on the child's side and also vulnerable and honest with your own feelings, rather than controlling and telling the child what to do and what not to do, which shows up like you're the police and you're against them, and then they go against you.

Right.

Because it's the projection. You know, you project yourself as this person going against, and you get a mirror. So if your child is defiant in going against you, guess who is going against you? The child. Right.

So on the. So many questions that just came from that. But on the projection side of that, whatever our children are doing that we want to stop or change or somehow shift that we need to take a look at what's going on in our. What we're creating.

Yes, it's what we are doing because the child is just repeating what they are perceiving. So they're really like mirrors. So if we have tantrums, they have tantrums. And adult tantrums look different than a child tantrum, but they're still tantrums. You know, when we are angry at the child or getting anxious because they're not going to sleep and we wish they would fall asleep, or if we. We get all upset because we want to go home and they still want to slide over and over again and we keep asking and we get upset. Those are our tantrums. Or our husband or wife is late and we missed our yoga class and we all upset. Those are Our tantrums. Our rice is burnt and we get upset. That's our tantrum. So the child is just doing what they're learning. They're looking around and imitating us. And when we go a lot against them, they will go back against us simply innocently, without knowing or thinking about it. It's just a mechanism that happens on their own. It's not their fault. They're not conscious of it. It's just a mirror. Like we do it. They just mirror it back. So what we see is what we are.

So there's no really bad behavior or bad child, if you will. It's all our responsibility. We can't be blaming our children for their actions. We need to take a look at what we're.

Yes, and it's good news because what you said now is really important that I want to address. It doesn't mean feel guilty. It's not about blaming yourself. Oh no, I did everything. Oh no, she's teaching that I at fault and I can't do anything to the child. You don't need to do anything to the child, but you can do something. And when you realize that you are responsible rather than guilty, that you simply set things in motion by some actions you have made in your own innocence, not realizing, oh, this is how it will be perceived. And this is what I'll get back. When you realize that, then actually now you can do something about it. All I have to do is stop doing that and instead do that. So instead of feeling guilty, I feel empowered and excited. Oh, because I can do something different. It's really important to learn to forgive yourself. Because whatever you do, you do innocently. You're doing the best you can. Even when you think you know better and you're doing the wrong thing knowing you could do better, that still your emotional capacity is what it is at that moment. And it's really important to forgive. And forgiving means that you realize that there is nothing to forgive, that you really did the best you could. And children can handle human beings. They don't need angels for parents. So it's fine to make mistakes. It's just that when you make the mistake, my guidance is learn from the child behavior. Realize the child is simply being whatever it learned unconsciously has no control over it from what you have done with them. So when you see that, you want to go to the core of things. Okay, why is the child doing that? Understand the child. And I teach the solve formula to do that, to do your own process so you can see the child and See, oh, he's doing that because he has this need, this valid need or because that's the system that I've taught him by responding this way when he does this way or by modeling this or that way. And then you learn, oh, then I can do this. Or I shouldn't take him to supermarkets, seeing candy is too much for him. Or maybe I shouldn't take him to this birthday party where it would be mostly very junky food and it's hard for him to resist. Or if you have a children that is not hard to resist, then maybe that party will be alright, but let's bring some good stuff, etc. Etc. It's just taking responsibility, not feeling guilty or blamed, but rather able and empowered to do the right thing and to understand what drives the child because it's always a valid thing.

That's so great. I love it. It's just there's so much learning available. You know, I'm not a parent yet, but I will be soon. But there's. It seems like that, you know, just being a parent, you can learn so much about yourself if you just stay in that growth mindset and really be a partner with your child and really, you know, you're growing together rather than always trying to force and manipulate and change and struggle. Just seems like it can be a lot of fun.

It is a lot of fun. It's the greatest fun on earth.

That's so great.

Yeah, I would go back to it anytime if I could.

That's so great. I love in your work as well and you're talking about the story with the child on the ledge of parents really being vulnerable with their feelings because you can totally. I can feel the energy of saying no to a child. But then when a person takes responsibility for their feelings, like I'm scared, that seems like it would be potentially challenging for us as parents to actually get in touch with our feelings and communicate it. Do you have any wisdom or advice on parents and how they, they can get in touch with their feelings and actually communicate from that vulnerable space?

It's really about being honest and authentic in the moment. The salve formula is helpful with that because the S, the first letter in the salve, I mean S, A, L, V, E. The S is the self talk is the being with the self and noticing what's going on for you and just being honest with it and then expressing yourself honestly. And then the rest of the self formula is about putting attention on the child, listening to the child, validating and empowering. And I won't go into all of it right now because it's not really your question. But to be honest with yourself, you know, take three breaths and be present. Notice whether you're trying to impress somebody in your imagination, live up to somebody else's standards, because that's the main killer of authenticity. Sometimes it can be a stranger in the playground, somebody is looking at you, your child is doing something out of line, and you're thinking, what is this person, this other parent, expecting me to do to my child? And you end up doing that. I have a story also in the book about exactly about that, about not being authentic with yourself, with a child that's three years old and still in diapers and the aunt is visiting and trying to seduce the child. If you go without diaper, I'll take you to the zoo. And the mother who used to take sessions with me and knew better, initially falls for it and says to her child, yeah, you know, David or whatever his name, why don't you try that? And he's used to his mother being on his side. So he's just screaming and getting out of the room and slamming the door. And I don't know if slamming. He was three years old, but he's going to the other room and he's kicking and screaming and having a tantrum. The mother catches herself and goes back there and goes to him, and he's kind of kicking her and very upset. And she validates his feelings. She realizes that she was not authentic. She was trying to impress the relative. And the moment she comes back to herself, she realizes the truth. And she tells him, you want to decide for yourself if you want to wear a diaper. And he says to her, yes. And he calms down and he says, yes, you're my mother, not her mother. Very funny, but a great lesson. So the answer to a lot of the authenticity is about really doing what you. When you are connected and loving with the child, what would you do? And then the other side of it is to speak. You know, as a culture, we escape the truth. So we say to a child who is on a slide in the playground, it's time to go home. Now, who is Mr. It's May I know some God in the sky that dictates it's an excuse. If I say it's time to go to go home, then I'm saying to the child, look, it's not me taking you away from the slide. It's Mr. ITS or it's time to go to sleep. So I call it the God of Its I say, don't use the God of it. Speak the truth. I see that you want to slide a lot more and I am tired or bored and I want to go home. Or your brother wants to go home, so it's the truth. Or I want you to go to sleep so that dad and I can have time for ourselves. That's the truth. And actually, if you told that truth, you would stop doing that kind of nonsense and find some other solution, maybe a real babysitter rather than using sleep as a babysitter or some other time to be with your husband at daytime, not sleep time, which is a hard one, to not be with the child. So there's a lot of authenticity that comes from us being present to ourselves and real, rather than pretending and telling a child something that isn't true so that they wouldn't know what. What we're feeling and what we're doing. So I'm bored and I want to go home. I'm bored and tired and hungry. And I say, always take enough food to the park and extra clothes and a book to read if you can. Take your eyes off the child depends on their age. And stay with them as long as they need because it's not fair to take somebody where they want to go and then take them away before they're done. That's like you going to the movies and somebody forces you out before the end, so not very respectful. And then they project back and they don't respect you and we wonder why. So, yeah, so speak honestly. And when you speak honestly, it forces you to actually be honest and vulnerable. And then before you say, I want to go home and I see that you want to stay, you end up not saying it because you realize, oh, it's just my will against the four years old will. A little silly, you know, who is the four years old here? And then usually you kind of snap back to maturity and say, okay, you know, I'm the mother or the father and I brought him here so he has fun and I need to let him see the movie to the end, which could be lots of hours. And I'm not saying you can never go home sooner than the child wants. That can happen, especially when you have other children. But then what I say to the child is, I see that you want to swing or slide some more and I'm ready to go home. Or your brothers are ready to go home. How many more times do you want to slide before we go? Because we do want to go. And usually when you give that kind of power and respect to the child, they would put a boundary for themselves. My children usually used to say 10 more times, you know, the usual magic number. And often they stopped at 5 because by then they felt ownership of the choice. They started thinking about going home and what they could do home and getting excited about that. And then usually after half the times of what they say, they also lost interest because now, now their mind was into this, okay, we're going to the next fun thing we're going to do. And then often they stop after shorter time and say, I can go now, I had enough. But when we tell them we have to go now, even though you want to stay, and we just force ourselves, then the reaction is clinging to staying there even longer. And then they never want to go home because they have that same sense of scarcity, of, my mom is taking it away from me. I have to cling to it more and more and more. I have to cling by force because again, projection mirror, because she's taking it by force and saying it's time to go and insisting on it is taking it by force. Even if you don't physically do something by force, it's still domination of the stronger person.

So you're essentially giving a child a choice and giving them autonomy and power to direct their own life.

In a way, yes. While you are still a leader, you hold the context of things and keeping things safe and appropriate for society. So you're not going to take your child to the movies and. And if he feels like going around and hitting everybody, let him do that. So I'm not talking about permissiveness.

What, it's not total permission to do whatever you want whenever you want.

Yeah, because you're still a guide and there's still society. It's within the amount of freedom we all have. There are things we're not free to do, and the child is not free to do them either. Freedom is not licensed. Freedom is an inner place of autonomy in response also to limitations and boundaries. So I decide autonomously as a child how I want to handle the fact that the swimming pool is getting closed rather than my mother forces me. When the pool is closed, we have to rush out and get dressed and this and that. Maybe I want to see, stand and look at them, how they close it. I want to take my time and meditate on, wow, they're closing the pool. Maybe I'd rather the guards tell me rather than my mother tell me. Maybe I want to stay in the water until I see a proof from one of the workers. One of the guards telling me that I have to get out of the water. So there are a lot of ways to make it respectful. And still the child can't do just whatever they want. Yeah, he has to get out of the pool, but maybe at his own pace. Not pulled against their will, not coerced, even with words or manipulation. But still we need to follow the rules of society and what is appropriate in respecting other people as well. And what I see when you raise children these way, they're actually the best behaving children. Most respectful of others, very responsive, very cooperative because they don't have a reason not to. They're not full of angst about things are taken away from me or forced on me. And yet we guide them so that they are respectful and we are respectful of them, which is why they are respectful of others.

So what is your thoughts on discipline? Does this fall into that? Do you believe in discipline? Do you not believe in discipline? What's your thoughts on that?

Well, the word belief is not relevant for me because it's not a matter of believing. It doesn't work. Discipline. The word discipline really fit for the self. I have self discipline. With self discipline, I don't eat junk. With self discipline, I practice my musical instrument or my sports or my dance. With self discipline, I prevent myself from hurting someone even when my emotions are bursting. So as a parent, I have to have self discipline because sometimes I may be tired or hungry and I can't handle any more awake child and a baby and this and that, and I have to discipline myself. You can't discipline another person, just like you can't breathe for another person or eat for another person. So discipline is something only of the self. If you mean punishment, punishment doesn't work anywhere. Punishment is the idea that if I hurt someone, they behave better. And I don't see the logic in hurting someone. All they learn is to hurt someone else and control someone else through fear and hurt instead really communicating, connecting and understanding why they're right about what they're doing. So we can come across as helping them to make things better so that they can behave better. Doesn't mean they get whatever they want. But if they hit their little brother, then my mistake is leaving them with the little brother. And the brother ruined their tower. So I come in and I find a solution. Oh, it's really hard for you to have your brother around right now. I'm sorry I didn't notice sooner. He's really destroying everything you're doing. And you remove the brother and go Read him a book or do something nice with him and say, here, I'll close the door, I'll put the gate here and I'll be with your brother on this side of the room. So that you can build now without it being ruined all the time. Now the child learns respect. Now the child feels autonomous and sees you modeling self respect. So there is so much more learning of good behavior. When we behave good.

It always comes back to us, doesn't it?

It's what?

It always comes back to us.

It always comes back to us. But again, be careful with that. It's not guilt or blame. It doesn't come back to us as guilty, but as powerful. Oh, I can do something about it so I don't have to feel helpless. Oh, my child is having all these tantrums and they're pulling everything and they're hitting the other child or whatever. Oh, poor me, I can't do anything. No matter what I tell him, he doesn't stop. You stop and you find what in the setup or in the way you model or in the way you treat him he has to do that? What is the motive behind his behavior? The drive over which he has no control? And how can you make it so he wouldn't have that drive in the first place? And that doesn't mean giving him what he wants. It just means setting things up so he can handle them. You know, a three year old cannot handle parents having a visit with other adults and nobody plays with them. As an example. A lot of parents think, well, be quiet, I'm visiting with my friend. Well, I don't think he can. So being realistic about what we can or cannot, you leave your five years old to play with your two years old. Well, the five years old is not a parent. There is a very limited amount of time. Time even when they love each other and it's all wonderful. We need to realize that there's only so much time they can spend together successfully. And that amount of time should be considered a miracle, a daily coincidence and not something to expect. Because a 5 years old or a 7 years old even is not a parent. They can't take care of a toddler.

So in that example you're saying parents. Because I think this happens all the time. Parents are like, oh, go play by yourself.

Yes.

What would be another option? How would a parent navigate that situation, that circumstance?

Well, be with the child. If the child needs company, give them company or get someone else to give them company, whether it's the help of grandma or husband, when he Comes home if you have one, or a pop partner or a neighbor, or hiring a babysitter, or let go of doing anything at home. I told my husband, while parenting, nothing else can get accomplished in the house. Just know that. And if I accomplish something in the house, it's probably there was a miracle where the child or children were busy on their own unexpectedly. And then you would see something done. And then abroad stopped, like in the middle, because I'd rather be there and prevent the escalation of fighting between children or getting into discomfort and tantrums before it happens. And when I do that, children learn that I would help them. So that's how they learn to behave well. Because they know if my brother disturbs me or starts ruining my tower, or even before he does, it looks like he's going to. If I call my mother, she interrupts everything and she comes and helps me. But the reason they would hit the little one is I call my mother, she doesn't come. She says, just a minute, I need five more minutes to finish here. And you go like five minutes is eternity for a young child. So you go, well, I guess I would have to take care of myself because my. Meanwhile, my toddler brother is keeping ruining my stuff. I better hit them and stop them somehow. So they do it because we're not there. We burnt the rice, we made a mistake. Not guilt, not to feel guilty about it, to learn from it. Oh, I made a mistake. And I would come in there and even apologize to the older child. Sorry I didn't come sooner. And next time call me and I'll come sooner and then later learn to really come either before they even call you, as you notice. Okay, it's been 10 minutes, it's probably coming to an end. Or I can feel some tension in the voices in the other room. Or don't have them be in the other room so you can hear better and stop what you're doing in mid air, turn off the fire, put the salad in the fridge, unfinished, whatever, and come to the children and handle the situation. Because before it escalates. Because if it escalates, it means you burnt the rice, you weren't there sooner and you put them in a situation they cannot handle.

That's amazing. So then it's essentially prevention. Yes, the presence and the attention to prevent that type of thing. Most parents, most of us are busy in our lives that we don't give the attention to our children.

Yes, they need the attention or they need to be by themselves. And little brother is just not letting them. So you want to create the conditions that would be right. And a 5 years old cannot be a babysitter of a 2 years old for more than a very short time. So think about that. You have that the two years old is your only child. If you didn't have the 5 years old, you'd be with them, you wouldn't be doing the dishes because it would work for you. So notice that you're relying on the older child to be your babysitter and they really can't do that. They can do it for a very short time. And I like to teach parents how to help children learn to do things on their own, side by side with the parent while the parent is present. But it doesn't mean that we can expect them to do what they cannot and then be mad at them that they didn't. You know, you put a child in a situation they can't handle and then you're mad at them. Like playing with other kids of the same age when they're young, they can't really do that. And then we get upset because they fight with each other, they have arguments, it doesn't work. And just because it works for a while or because they have one friend with whom miraculously it works, we expect it to, to work in other situations with other kids or in groups, and it doesn't because they can't do it right. So it really gives us power of a lot of power to make things right and to make them peaceful. Because now we know how the game goes, rather than pretend that it goes in a way that it doesn't, because we live in our own hallucination that, oh my five years old should be able to play with the two years old or be around them and take care of them. And then we're all upset because he doesn't. So it's like noticing reality and responding to it, whether it's by not accomplishing anything at home, which is what I did, or by hiring a babysitter, or by accomplishing at home in segments of five minutes here and there, if that seems to work, just finding your own path and also doing things side by side so the child would learn. I'm not losing attention or losing mom if I play by myself. And as soon as I need, she does stop what she's doing and she bees with me. So there are a lot of ways to make the house really flow in calm and in peace rather than struggle against. So one of the sentences on the back of the book, it says, taking the struggle out of Parenting or out of child rearing. I don't remember which one. Anyway, so taking the struggle out is not about teaching the child something. The child is just doing whatever we teach them. It's about stop struggling with the reality of who a child is and what they actually need.

And they're struggling. You have a great. I don't know if this is the spot to share, but I think it'd be awesome to share the self. Is that a way that we can kind of stop struggling using the self?

The self can stop us from having an eternal tantrum that goes against the child. Just the letter S is the self talk. It's going inside yourself for just a minute. Of course, if the there is something unsafe happening, then you don't have time to do that. Then pluck the child out of anything that's not safe. First hold them in your arms and then calm yourself down. But the way to calm yourself down is you look at your thought. Your thought. He should listen to me. He should do as I say. He shouldn't sit on the windowsill. He shouldn't hit his brother just to notice, oh, I want to smack him or I want to yell at him, or why is he doing it? I told him so many times. And to notice these thoughts and be kind to yourself, let them flow. Even if you want to imagine yourself doing something physical to the child or to the wall or to yourself, you know, just do it in your mind. That's the fast way to just do it and let it pass. Let the movie play itself out so you're done with it. Because when you're done yelling or hurting someone, usually after you're done, you calm down and you see your mistake. So do that in your mind in advance so you can be past that. You can already see, no, I don't really want to hurt him like this. I don't want to yell at him. I don't want to force him. I want to find a kind of way. Then you go into the A and you put your attention on the child and listen to them notice what the reason behind their action over which they have no control, even if it looks like they do. But the whole paradigm of their behavior is just set in because of how we are being with them. And we listen, we validate without drama. I see that you wanted this and your brother did this or whatever. You want to stay in the pool and they're closing. And empower by not empower is more what not to do by not getting all mushy, mushy and Giving the child a sense that something horrible happened. You want to get to stay in the pool and they're asking you to leave. I know how much you like to stay there. And we have to leave now. And you just be benign about it, like you giving the message. I know you can handle those feelings. And if they cry, you hold them. And I. You need to cry. And I'll be with you as long as you need to cry. And we need to go to the dressing room while you cry. And you just go and be with him until he's done crying without giving the message that something is wrong or has to be stopped or it's a problem. So they're empowered. When I work with people, just one more thing about the self formula. When I work with people in my workshops and in private phones sessions and Skype sessions, I do a lot more with the S part, which one can do later. So that when more events happen in life, it plays back and we actually have access to this relief that the S part creates a lot faster. And the way I do it is you go back to your thought, like, my child should listen to me. And you do what people know, something similar to the work, like what Byron Katie does Four questions and turnaround, or what I call the Child Is Right worksheet. I have a video on YouTube called the Child is Right, which people can listen to because they only always have a valid reason. And when you do this process inside of you, is it true that he should listen to me, or is it true that he shouldn't get upset? Upset or have a tantrum or hit his brother? Doesn't mean I let him hit, but I find the valid reason. It's not true that he shouldn't because that's what he learned. Or he's alone and I didn't come soon enough, and he's really frustrated and find no other solution. And he's really young, doesn't have another tool. So when we understand that, then we unleash our own anxiety and anger and we turn it around and see how the child is right to do what they're doing. And it makes us not only for this time, but next time something like that happens. The more we do this process, the more it hooks back into our mind in a tough moment after we do it many times, then the next time something happens and. And you want to yell, your mind already plays the record of the good stuff. You just realized two days ago when you did this process, oh, no, he shouldn't listen to me. He was busy. He was absorbed in what he's doing and I'm telling him to stop it in the middle. I'm not respecting him or whatever the situation is. He shouldn't hit his brother. Well, he has a big reason to be out of control and he doesn't have other tools and I wasn't there in time. Maybe I shouldn't have left them together altogether. He can't handle it now, etc. Etc. So really coming to the turnaround of understanding through the S. But giving oneself a lot of compassion too, in looking at how do I react when I believe my own thought that he shouldn't do that and spending a little time. Oh, I get all upset, I get angry. I remember my mother treated me this way. So when I work with people, I go deeper. I sometimes go into the memories that come up and release the hold that these things have over us so we can be free to be the parent that we really are and that we really want to be.

I love that it just feels as you're just describing it, just feeling into it. It feels very spacious. Like doing that exercise, you have a bigger picture and a broader perspective that you can actually truly be in the child's world and see their experience and be out of your own trauma.

Yes.

Very cool. I love that. Very, very inspiring. And also as you're sharing this and I think I said it already in this, but it's so empowering for us as parents to really see how we can grow as human beings by parenting in many ways, right?

Absolutely. Oh, it's the fastest seminar for self development and self awakening and maturing. You know, we have to stop being children. We are called to be someone else's parent and guide. So that's, that's like the end of me, me, me. I want for me, I want this, I want that. It's all of a sudden what I want for me is to nurture this other person. I want this person to be happy more than anything on earth. And that, that's a beautiful desire we all have as parents. And sometimes we forget that desire because the me, me, me comes alive or maybe didn't get enough as a child. A lot of us weren't cared for as children in the best way. And that incompletion may be activated and reignited and we kind of forget ourselves and are unable to be the kind parent we want to be. And that's where this process, when I do it with parents in private sessions, I. Within a short time they are so much more able to stay peaceful and connected. With the child. And it's that connection that makes it possible to see what's going on for the child and to be in touch with our own love and really help them go on their own path, yet guide them to do it within our social codes of behavior and within what's safe and healthy and considerate of others.

So I'm very curious on the self esteem and the confidence. Like how do we support our children to have the confidence?

Well, we don't need to. They come out very confident. Just, you know, you're gonna have a baby soon, so you're gonna see if you stray from meeting your baby's need for even a little while. No way. You take care of me, I take you for granted and you're here to take care of me. Not that they have this thought, but inborn, they're rooted in themselves. I need this and it has to be met. And if I'm pulled away from meeting my need, I'm gonna scream, oh no way. So their self esteem is extremely high, Their self reliance is extremely high. And our job is not, not to poke it and not to ruin it. So I'll give you a few examples how we might ruin the self reliance. So self reliance is. I want to breastfeed right now. Where is the boob? If we say no you can't have the boob now we're killing the self reliance. We're telling the child, the baby already in infancy, what you feel inside is wrong or the baby want to be carried or, or be slept with. So people say to me, you know, but by age 1 or whatever, wouldn't they be more independent if they sleep by themselves? I say, well they'll be more lonely, but their independent choice is to sleep with you. So where they learn to self reliance is when they do what they feel inside is right for them, not when you tell them to ignore what they feel inside and do what someone else tells them to do. That's how we all learn to seek approval and to not be the parent we want to be because someone is looking or grandma will judge it, etc, etc, and then we deal with relatives in all kind of wishy washy ways rather than simply being the parents we want to be and let the relatives deal with their own discomfort with it if that's what happens. So you, you want to really respect the child direction or the word respect is not even the best. It's really trust. It's what we talked about before. Nature doesn't make mistake. God didn't put that need in the Baby as a mistake. It's not a mistake. Babies come in with all the correct needs. They cry because they need it and it's real. And that's what meeting those needs develops them the best. So there are no mistakes. And their self reliance develops as a result of experiencing that we are on their side and that we show them how you feel inside is right. You feel. You want to sleep with me, so you sleep with me. And then they learn. Oh, how I feel inside is right. You want to breastfeed now How I feel inside is right. You want to be held, you want. You know it's like it's all a life that flows with the inner guidance leads to a child that trusts themselves and self trust and self reliance is confidence and self esteem. And it doesn't mean that you never take care of yourself or that you that you have to give a child as they grow older whatever they want, like a candy or a movie or stay with your friends or whatever. No, sometimes they don't get what they want. Just make sure not to be the child struggling with them to get what you want. And make sure that when you absolutely have to leave the pool, leave the library, not get this candy that you communicate, you can still, even when it's now, it can become communicated lovingly and with validation. You really want it very much. I see how much you love it. And we're going home now and we're not buying this but we can go home and make our own organic good ice cream or jello or whatever it is.

Yeah, I love that. I love that too that you addressed because I was wondering about the parents, you know of how the parents needs as well. So I love that. But it's just kind of a.

Yes. I work a lot with the parents need. They're human beings and they need as much compassion, self forgiving, the ability to move on, knowing I'm doing the best I can and not starting to blame oneself and feel bad. Yeah. And be self reliant ourselves. You know it's like when you help your children be self reliant by to trying trusting them. It also points to you, gee, I should rely on myself, not try to appease the mother in law. Right.

That's a huge lesson for me and I think for a lot of us adults is learning to trust ourselves.

Yes, yes. And it starts even with the birthing process. What kind of birth are you choosing? You know, who told you to this or that. And we fail sometimes we fall for the pressure again, not anything to feel guilty about, just to know, okay, so that's where I was. Forgiving yourself. Just like you understand, the child has a valid reason for how they are when they can't control themselves. You also have valid reason for how you are or you were. And you can forgive that. And it doesn't mean you can't learn something new and make it all better. We keep growing all the time till the day we die. It never changes. Just look at how when you look five years back, you look yourself. Oh, God, I didn't know anything. I was so naive. Totally, totally. Right? But when you were, then you thought you conquered the world and you know everything. At some point, you realize that at each point of life, you think, now you know everything and you conquer the world. But you become wise and you realize, well, that's an illusion because a year or two from now, I'm going to look back at this moment and think, I was really naive and didn't know anything.

There's always something more to learn.

Yes. And you'll have that for the rest of your life. And the nice thing that also helps with not feeling guilty is the older you grow, the more you know that you don't know anything. And then the I don't know is not scary anymore. It's not. You don't see your child. I don't know how to respond to it. It's fine not to know. You can even say to your child, oh, my God, you know, I have no idea how to respond to you. This is a new one for me, you know? And you just take a minute and think about it while they're having a tantrum or while they're asking for something that you weren't prepared for. And you say, you know, I really have to think about it. I can't give you an answer now. This is totally new to me. That's part of being real and vulnerable. And it's so important for children to learn that we are not some perfect people that always know what to do and that we're thinking and we are learning and we are growing as well. And yet they do need to rely on us. So there are areas of security and safety that they do need to know that we lead the way.

Fantastic. Awesome. I love it. Thank you so much for all of your wisdom. You just give such a freedom for all of us to really just explore.

Wonderful.

To not know and to not be perfect and to do the best we can. So thank you so much.

You're welcome.

And can you share your website as well so people can find out more about you and your work and your workshops and all of the goodness that you offer.

So my website is either naomialdor.com or authenticparent.com not authentic parenting authenticparent.com or I think authentic child.com goes there as well. You'll find on the site articles, Questions and answers, MP3s that are really cheap CDs, a link to get the book, a free newsletter link you can sign up. I do the newsletter once a month for now. Every now and then during the academic year I do tele classes and you'll find the page on how to sign up to talk to me on the phone or by Skype from all over the world. You can do that. You can do a 15 minutes, a 25 minutes or a 50 minute session or more. Whatever works for you. There is also a link for how to learn to nurture your child's musical talent. Specifically it costs the same as a regular session, but it has its own page with explanation of what it is that I offer that I developed over the backs of my children, my two musical ones. What else is on the site? Articles, CDs, the family retreat information for families who want in person sessions or in person full days either in my house or theirs to really work with the whole family in a deep way for a day, for two days or up to five days. So all that that information is on the website including ability to communicate with me, to send an email, contact form and I hope this helps someone and maybe I would get to know more people my next and I know it's.

Going to help a lot of people.

Yes and I just came I'm going back to Australia in early August. I'll be speaking in the United States somewhere else before and it's all on the website. I just came back From Europe from six weeks of speaking in 13 cities and doing lots of TV and interviews, magazines, radio, everything as well as lots of workshops and speaking and there'll be more of that and you can find out about it by being on the newsletter. Be the first to be notified even before it's on the website.

Awesome. Very cool. Well thank you. Thank you.

You're welcome Alexandra and have a wonderful birth and a wonderful experience with your new human being coming through you.

Thank you so much.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Mama Goddess. Sending you lots of love and blessings. If you'd like to connect more, go to mamagoddess.com until next time. Keep rocking it and have an awesome day.