Women are Built for Pleasure with Michaela Boehm

Welcome to Mama Goddess. I'm your host, Alexandra J. Johnson. This podcast is all about rocking your goddess life, creating vibrant health and celebrating motherhood and family life. It's about living an authentically awesome life. Let's have some fun.

Mikayla Bohm. And I'm saying her name wrong, but maybe she can help us out with how we actually say it. Mikayla is amazing and awesome. She is a facilitator, a counselor. She has so much wisdom, from psychology to yoga to breathwork to sexuality. She is a wealth of information, a wealth of knowledge and body wisdom. And I just think she is such an embodiment of. Of the divine feminine. She is connected to the earth, connected to the heart, connected to life, and she is juicy. So welcome, Makayla. Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Yes. I love talking with you. And like I said, I just think you're such a great demonstration of just true embodiment of the sexuality and sensuality and of those sexual. Sexual energies. So I'm excited to dive in.

Yes.

And let's start off with, of course, pleasure. Can you just talk about pleasure, what pleasure means to you and what is pleasure?

Well, I think from what we've just started talking about before we officially started the call, I think pleasure is quite a concept for most people because it feels like an indulgence. So I love that you've devoted your summer to pleasure, a whole conference to pleasure, because pleasure is actually not an indulgence. It's what's necessary as a portal into other things. And there's certain things you can't have until you know how to have pleasure. So to me personally, pleasure is the vehicle to certain realizations, the vehicle to any entry into spiritual realms, sexual realms, realms of creation. And so pleasure just for the sake of pleasure is good, but for the sake of entering into other dimensions is fantastic. And so to me, pleasure is a very, very important piece in how we enter into domains, particularly as women. Not saying that men shouldn't have pleasure or don't want to have pleasure, but women's embodiment is the embodiment of light, of, you know, life force in the body. And that should be pleasurable, because if it's not, well, you know, we're kind of faking it. Actual true pleasure is a gift also to give our man. And this is not only true for men, this is true for all our partners. But the offering of bodily pleasure, the offering of enjoyment, the offering of the brightness that comes from having pleasure is a huge gift. And so cultivating pleasure in the Body, particularly for women, feels like probably one of the most important things to do. Hmm.

So on the pleasuring the body, you know, just the pleasure within the body. And you're talking about sexual, sensual, like, what can we have this pleasure in our daily life? Like, how do we tap into that pleasure so it. So it's there in our daily life?

I think. See how I can say this? I don't make a distinction between. I mean, I could make a distinction of how you want to categorize pleasure. I'd rather not, because particularly in a woman's body, pleasure is a very malleable thing. Right. So it's not that it's per se sexual sometimes, but it's somewhat sexual and something sensual and it's something just alive. And sometimes you can have intense pleasure in the middle of pain, you know, heartbreak, sobbing. I mean, who hasn't watched a movie that was just so sad and just pleasurably sobbed? So to me, sensation of pleasure isn't necessarily to be categorized. You could, because certain things are more overtly sexual and certain things are not. But I think in order to not box ourselves in, I would keep those terms very fluidly. Later on, we can talk specifically about sexual pleasure and how to generate sexual pleasure, which is, you know, particularly recently, become a whole thing as far as practices and meditations. And so I've got rather strong opinion on those things.

Michaela has an opinion. No way.

My excuse is always that I get paid to have opinions. I would definitely say that I'm very opinionated on a lot of things. My opinion on sexual pleasure we can get to later. But I think just to feel your body is pleasurable, just to be in your body is pleasurable because it enters you into a domain where the whole world sends back signals to you. And so, you know, looking at a beautiful flower, looking at your child, looking at art, listening to music, tasting food, smelling, you know, perfume or rose or the rain, you know, coming down on warm earth, all of those are pleasurable. And pleasure kind of opens your body. It's not a heavy thing. You can't think about how good that rose smells.

Right?

You have to take it in. And it opens your body in a certain way, and it makes your heart, you know, just pulse and shine and makes you happy. That's pleasure. So, you know, you can increase pleasure by increasing the life in your body, the life force in your body through breath, through motion, through exposing yourself over and over and over to the things that give you pleasure. Through dance, through yoga, through hiking in the woods, swimming but pleasure is a central affair. It's not a mental affair. Right.

I love that too, that what you're saying to the feeling of like being alive, like, it's just like you. It's not something you think about. It's like experiential. I almost have goosebumps thinking about it. It's just aliveness.

Yes, yes. And so depending on where you are alive in that moment, pleasure will more feel like heart pleasure or womb pleasure or full body pleasure, or it's tingling or it's warm or it makes you weep. So there's many, many which ways to express and feel pleasure. And both of which you can practice so that you become more fluid in expressing pleasure and also more receptive to pleasure, to actually feeling pleasure.

Right. So it's not something. It's something because it feels like so many of us resist pleasure. We're like always in a hurry and we're just like missing out on. I mean, part of the reason I'm doing this is that, you know, I have a baby and I just. I don't want to miss savoring life, like rushing through it. But it seems like we're just so mechanical and in our heads that we, I don't know, resist pleasure. Why do we do that?

Bad habits? Well, first of all, you know, there's very little value placed on pleasure. It doesn't necessarily make you productive. In the long range, it would make you very productive and creative. But in the short term, that classic stop and smell the roses, right? I mean, you can just hear from the phrases, that's something that people know does something, but they don't do it because it takes away time, it takes away efficiency. Also often how we feel, particularly as feminine beings, you know, and most women being more feminine than masculine, but not all, but as feminine beings, in order to get things done, we have to kind of discipline ourselves to not get distracted. And pleasure is distracting in its very nature. You do one thing, it leads to another, it leads to another, it leads to another. It's not very linear. And, you know, you can have a pleasure practice, but then it's really actually not that pleasurable anymore because now you are applying structure to something that is only experienced fullest in the wild flow of how things happen. So the reason I think we reject pleasure is it takes time away from the things we need to be done. But I would also say that we reject pleasure because pleasure makes us vulnerable and most people don't want to be vulnerable. So this is of course clear as to be seen in Sexual pleasure. Because when you're really in the throes of sexual. Sexual pleasure, well, you're definitely kind of losing control. And not kind of, you're definitely losing control look that good or sound that good or smell that good, but it's so much pleasure that's the easiest to see. But that's still somewhat acceptable because it's. With one partner in the bedroom, maybe it's dark, right? But. But somebody who walks around and is openly in pleasure, you know, makes themselves very vulnerable. And also, of course, it's not always appropriate to be that wide open in pleasure. Right. While I walk down the street moaning and groaning with the tearful expression. Which is why we'll get there also, maybe later. It's important to cultivate appropriate expressions of pleasure. But it shouldn't keep you. It shouldn't keep you when you walk by a rose bush on the way to the grocery store. It should not keep you from stopping and smelling or touching or whatever. So that for a moment your body becomes alive, but feels somewhat out of control compared to the head. I think that's one of the reasons why we reject pleasure.

Interesting. And I love that too. And you're saying just taking the time to smell the roses and feeling that aliveness and that energy, that if we actually take the time to do it, it increases our energy. And so many people nowadays are just exhausted and drained. And this seems like a really great way to plug into source.

Yeah, it is. That's what I mean with. It's a portal. It's a portal into source, into the divine, into your own fullness. And it really could be accomplished. Of course, I would like everybody to have a summer of pleasure, or at least a day of pleasure. But most people might only have a few seconds, but it only takes a few seconds because the things that give us pleasure are typically things that open us in a certain way. And that only takes a second. If you walk by a bakery and you get hit by the smell of fresh bread, that's a second. But it can cause all kinds of beautiful sensations in your body.

So I think this is a great point that you're making too, because a lot of times we think of pleasure and we think it needs to be like an extravagant day at the spa or, you know, hours and hours of crazy, awesome, amazing lovemaking. But what you're talking about is like tangible, okay, you have a minute, like, where can you tap into your senses and get some pleasure, right?

And the thing is, pleasure inducing things are all around you. There's barely anybody who isn't? I mean, unless you sit in a cubicle with neon lights and absolutely nothing around you, which there's people who have to do that. Right. But even then, there's certain things you could do. You could still carry rose water and spray yourself or put hand lotion on or listen to a song or look at a photo of someone you love. It's always doable. Most of us have animals, children, things we can touch, smell, look at. So those are one kinds of pleasures. Coming back to what you were saying earlier, why do we reject pleasure? I think another piece that's worth mentioning is that for a lot of people, pleasure is a sexual thing only.

Yeah, totally.

And so when they feel any kind of physical pleasure, there's a certain kind of, oh God, you know, this is not appropriate. And also, why am I feeling this when I'm looking at, you know, I don't know, my dog. So then they conflate the feeling of bodily aliveness with sex. And I think because of the way things are nowadays, often the only time people do feel pleasure is during sex or self pleasure if they don't have sex. And so it's become this narrow, narrow, narrow thing that then gets reduced further down by how people have sex or how people have self pleasure. And so it becomes this tiny little knob, so to speak, no pun intended, The whole realm of, you know, sensation in the body that literally, you know, when women come, you know, I'm about to start teaching a women's intensive. So when women come, you know, for women's intensive, they always on their list of things that they want to experience is full body orgasm. You don't start with a full body orgasm.

Right, right.

Orgasm is the result of having made every fiber of your body completely conductive to the flow of energy. And you know, you don't need to have sex. You don't even need genital stimulation for a full body orgasm. You can have a full body orgasm jumping in a lake or sitting under a waterfall or dancing or, you know, some people have them birthing. You know, there's all kinds of things that can happen when your body becomes, you know, a conductor of energy. I think it's boiled down so they shut it down because it feels inappropriate or shameful or weird.

Yeah, yeah, And I love that. That's one of the reasons that I want to do this too is like opening up my mind and opening up, helping others to open up their mind of like what pleasure is like. Can we have pleasure? Of course, in sex, but in our daily life, like Work, parenting, you know, all the things that we have to do or we do in a day. Like opening it up. Like, why can't we experience pleasure throughout our day?

Exactly. You know, because most things are innately pleasurable when you really think about it.

And do you think, I totally agree, and I love this with the senses and really having experiential. Do you think that we just get so in our heads and so lost in stories that we don't slow down enough to actually tap into our senses? What's going on with the disconnect?

Well, I think you were saying something earlier about my embodiment. I think embodiment is kind of a. Is a really important word. People, you know, we're talking very general. There's all kinds of people. And so when I'm saying people, this is not. This is a generalization for the sake of this conversation. Right. But in general, most people, in order to function in the world, have to engage their body a lot, their mind a lot more than their body. And so by the mere virtue of that, but, you know, by the amount of communication we do on a computer, on a phone, via email, our energy is here, it's not there. And that's tragic. And I think a lot of people suffer that some don't because they think that's normal. Right. But I think most people have some sense that there's something missing. And so, yes, people have too much to do. They're not in their bodies, and they don't live in the world as a sensual apparition of existence, so to speak. Right. Because the moment you get up, when you really kind of feel. And this takes awareness, Right. This is like meditation the other way around. The first thing that happens when you awaken, if you're aware, is that you feel the delay on your body. You feel breath running through your body. You feel stretching. You feel things, you know, become alive. That's the. That's the first central piece right there. So from there, you know, you drink coffee or tea, you brush your teeth, you wash your face, you do your hair. All of these. These are things that are deeply sensual, and they are those. You could make the whole day a sensual experience. Because it is.

Yeah, I mean, we're touching. We're doing so many, you know, we're doing. We're using all of our senses or they're available.

Our senses are being used if we like it or not. It's just. Do you put awareness on sensing or on thinking? Do you let your body feel what's happening or not? You do that thing. And so, yes, it's definitely slowing down, but it's also just where you put your awareness. Yep.

I love that. Very inspiring. And just to. Because I think we get so wrapped up in our heads and our stories and our to do list and all the things that need to get done that we don't take the time to just settle into our bodies. And we think that, like, I loved what you said, we don't value it. We don't think that it's actually a valuable use of our time to actually, you know, take the time to feel and experience your body.

Yeah, but it is.

I mean, life is so much better every time. If I'm at a computer long time or in my head and I go and dance or move, I feel so much more alive.

So much more alive. Right. Yeah. Now, we want to, you know, we don't want to go there in this particular interview too much, but we do want to make a differentiation between a woman's body and a man's body simply because a woman's body is built for sensation, while a man's body, you know, these are wild generalizations, of course, but a man's body is built towards completion or task or orientation. And now, mind you, we're, you know, we're quite evolved as creatures, but the part of us that was built for survival is still very much intact. So when you are a woman, you were built to sustain, you know, long periods of time without sleeping so that you could watch your children, so you could be in labor, so you could, you know, take care of food and animals and fire and things like that. So you're built to be a finely tuned apparatus of sensation, so to speak, because that's how you stay alive. When you were a man in the olden days, your attention had to be kind of narrow and forward because you had to go and hunt or you had to go fight. So men tend to. And like I said, there's exceptions to this, but men tend to be more comfortable staying in their heads, and they tend to be okay with that because they're, for the most part, not geared towards sensual perception. However, when men want to be with women, all they want is sensual perception. The reason man wants to be with a woman in the sexual domain, and that doesn't mean having sex, but being intimate is. So she brings full body pleasure to him, which is incredibly enjoyable. Most men's pleasure isn't as developed as a woman's pleasure when she's developed. And so when you ask man, they will say, wow, her pleasure is the thing that really does it to me. And so movement, sound, you know, eating something and making a sound while eating, those kind of things is what makes a man want to be with a woman. And so when you are in front of the computer and start dancing afterwards, what you're doing is you're bringing life force into your body. It wakes you up and it enlivens you so that you can feel everything again. When a man gets up from his computer and dances, that's not quite as extreme. It's also helpful. I wouldn't probably do dancing. I'd say, you know, some form of chi generations or things like that, that ground. But it doesn't gain the vastness of additional perception that you gain.

Interesting. So it's really important for women to tap into that. And it's. I've never heard that before too, with the men, like, it doesn't do the same thing for them.

Interesting.

I didn't ever know that.

That's great. That's not to say that they don't have benefits, but it's not as extreme as it is in a woman as far as sensual perceptions and the depth of what's possible. Right. Hmm.

Interesting. I love that. So with my husband, he doesn't have the same needs as me.

He doesn't know. No, particularly. Your husband is a super linear creature. Yes, it's much. Let's put it this way, with your husband, you getting up and dancing while he's still on the computer is more pleasurable to him than him getting up dancing.

Oh, that's totally true.

Because he derives pleasure from your pleasure.

Huh? That's fascinating. Totally true. I'd be like, come on. He'd be like, I'm good.

Yeah, he is.

That's awesome. I think that's.

But he's good because you are supplying the energy. Yeah. Right.

But he calls that energy energy candy.

Yes.

You know, he gets to indulge in the energy candy. Yes. That's great. That's awesome.

Very cool.

So on the. So how do we go about. I love that you said a pleasure practice. Because I was like, all about it and I had my phone and I was like putting in my to do list, like, pleasure practice. And then I started looking at it and I was like, that seems lame. I'm like, I don't. There's like too much control around it. Like, I need to like, perform for my pleasure practice.

Yes.

So what are some tips that you recommend that we do that helps us just plug into this pleasurable experience? That's available to us.

Well, you know, the thing to say about pleasure practice is that when you don't have somebody hold the structure, then you have to hold the structure for yourself. Right? So, like, for instance, you do have a husband who's incredibly good with structure. So I would task him with sending you off to have pleasure, you having it on your calendar. But it's sometimes useful to say, okay, I have two hours. Now, I know I have to do something afterwards, but I'm gonna just, you know, set my timer. And then within that flow. That's definitely possible. But yes, anything that has a timing around it is very masculine and hence not necessarily the most conducive thing to pleasure. But sometimes it's helpful to know the things that get you there, and then it happens naturally. And what I mean with get you there, anytime you enter your body more fully, are you more aware of the sensual delights and the pleasurable delights around you? So just in the regular realms of pleasure, it's good to know that, for instance, for me, having a bath will drop everything. And so my whole bathroom is set up in a way that without any preparation, I can step. I can just walk in, turn the water on, fill it up, step in, and it's all such that it has the desired effect on my body. I have the. The oil that I like. I have the lights that I like. I have the colors. I have two paintings in front of my bathtub that I love looking at. So it's all set up so there's no extra doing involved. And I can just relax in the warm water and the music and whatever. You know, I read a book sometimes, I listen to music, and that's a portal into relaxation. Then once relaxation has happened, pleasurable relaxation, then you're more prone to do the pleasurable things anyway.

So it puts us in a more receptive, available, open.

Yes, yes. So step one is always relaxing your body or opening your body, however you want to call it. That's always step one. So if you have to schedule step one, so be it.

And that might be part of, like, the training wheels.

Maybe that's part of the training wheels. And in the beginning, you know, you don't start out by feeling the duvet on your body pleasurable in the morning. Most people probably don't, you know, they go like, ah, we gotta get up. But with some training, everything that includes your senses can become pleasurable. But in the beginning, you start out having things that, you know, produce pleasure in your body. And there's always a fine line between indulgence and what's useful. Right? So when I'm saying things like chocolate or food or a drink or. So I'm talking, of course, in moderation, right? Because it's not pleasurable. When you've eaten six chocolate bars.

Then you're wasted.

But in the beginning, you use things medicinally, so to speak, to induce pleasure. And then eventually you get to a place where everything becomes pleasurable. But in the beginning, you might have to buy flowers and. And set up a playlist to dance to, or invite your girlfriends over for an evening of something specific. Or take extra time with the baby where you just lay with him or cuddle him. I have one. As you know, I have many dogs, but I have one dog who is particularly soft. So I always make a point of, you know, touching him first because he's so soft. And it really relaxes me in a very specific way. And that's not to say that Maddox don't tactile benefits. You find five, six, eight, ten things that, you know you can do that immediately relax your body and open you up.

Right.

I walk into my vegetable garden, when in doubt, because that just always does it.

You just feel relaxed in the garden.

It makes me so happy. And there's things growing and blooming, and there's fruit and smells good and, you know, so it's like an immediate induction of pleasure. Hmm.

That's great. I love this too, because, I mean, part of this conference is really just enjoying our lives too, you know, like, really enjoying what we have in our lives. You know, we're always looking for something else, or we're on the constant. The future. We're gonna have something better. And I love that you're just using simple things that we can use, like step outside, look at the tree. Like, we don't need any. Anything big.

Yeah. You know, my gripe always. There we come to the opinionated piece. My gripe always is that everything, everything, including sexual pleasure and all of that has become so organized and institutionalized, and it really isn't. It shouldn't have to be just you walking in. Sunlight should caress your body, you know? You know, sex shouldn't just happen with, you know, a few candles right and left and two people sitting across from each other humming omming or whatever people do these days. Like, that's all right. But that in its very definition, is a narrowing of the full spectrum of what's possible. So the smaller and the more mundane, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

That's very inspiring. So on the Smaller, mundane. Can you talk about sex a little bit on, like, what, what are ways that we can really connect to this kind of like ecstatic life force energy and use it as a portal to connect to something more?

Well, you know, I think sex is one of the ultimate portals into something more, you know, divine or whatever you want to call it. Let's see how I can say this. Because of how it is for most people, sex is not a priority. Like, and hence pleasure, even sexual pleasure is not a priority. When sexual pleasure is wanted, there's usually a time constraint or an energy constraint for a lot of people. So sexual pleasure for most, generally speaking for most people is a fairly concentrated, short kind of a thing that involves maybe 5 to 10% of the capacity that they would have for pleasure. And so most orgasms, I'm talking women now, because it's a bit different for men. And since you and I are women, you know, so for most women, clitoral orgasms are fairly easy to have. Not for all women, but for most women. But they're essentially kind of a reduction of what's possible and not an expansion because there's a clench, clench, clench, clench, clench, and then there's a release and then you spend your energy like a man and then you kind of fall asleep or so, which, which is all pleasurable. I'm not saying that's not good, but once again, that's not the mind blowing, you know, heaven's opening, full body, every fiber of you being alive and singing kind of sexual pleasure that one can have. And so to start with the mundane, so to speak, is, if nothing else, it's good to start feeling other parts of your sexual body and become aware of that. So specifically, and this is a bit theoretical, but it's really not. But specifically starting to feel where in a woman are the other areas that are sensitive and relaxing the lower body? So even before we go into G spots or cervical or whatever, just relaxing the lower body, just feeling the hips move, just finding pleasure in the undulation of the hips, finding pleasure in the inner thighs, finding pleasure in, you know, how a skirt moves over your ass. I mean, there's a whole, like, realm there, right, that's tended to. So when we talk about where do you start the sexual pleasure? Well, I think just expanding from that one spot into the whole region would be great before we even go into specific practices or things of that nature. The other thing is the relaxation of the front surface of the body. You know, your throat, this area here, the eyes, the jaw, the throat, the Heart, the solar plexus, the belly, all of that plays a big role in how much sexual pleasure you can have.

And most of us have so much ridiculous tension, right? I know I have a lot of tension. I'll speak for myself, I have a lot of tension here.

One of the simplest things to do in order to kind of release that is to just put your feet parallel on the ground and start bouncing. You know, just bringing your knees up and down so that your body bounces so that all this tension kind of bounces down also. That's what showers are really good for, you know, like putting water up here and letting it run down, like really literally working on that constriction, releasing. That's the beginning of great sexual pleasure.

I love that too, because I love that you're starting from the sim. The simple, like this is something that we all can do because a lot of us, and I know for me, I can look at the mind blowing sex and it's somewhere out there. And I don't really, you know, like you have to. How do you actually do it? And then you forget like the little things that you can do. Like Brian and I have a little thing. Naked cuddles.

Exactly.

Like simple things like that, you know.

Simple things like that. Right. Just the way you touch somebody's head, your partner's hand or your partner's foot is either sexual or not sexual. Right. It's essential or whatever you want to call it. But you can't put attention towards these areas that conduct sexual pleasure. And the more attention you put towards these areas, the more sexual pleasure you can conduct.

So it is definitely an awareness and a practice and shifting our awareness into more of that pleasure the priority.

Yeah. And you know, while we're on the sexual issues. Yeah, I've been doing this for a long time, it seems. So most women start out, yeah, they want pleasure and they intuit massive amounts of pleasure being available. But then they get a vibrator and then when that vibrator is no longer doing it, they get like these jackhammer kind of wands. Right. And whatever else there is. And it becomes more and more and more and more stimulation in order to have pleasure. Because it actually desensitizes your body in a certain way. Particularly, you know, if you're kind of really like focused on the spot. Right. And so the first step is to stop the desensitization, desensitized, whatever the word is, you know, so that actual feeling can occur and then from there to widen out the, you know, the sensation into more and more and more parts and not less and less and less and less. Less parts.

As you're talking about that, too. It's very much like intimacy and connection. Like, just building that intimacy and that connection with another human being.

Yeah, yeah.

That we want to. And a lot of people in our culture, in the books tell us, you know, they don't focus on the little things that we can do. It's on, like, you know, this position is going to be it. And then when you have it, you have it. And you're like, I mean, it was great, but not that great.

No. Because no position is good if your body is tight. No position is good if you're in your head. No position is good when your jaw is all clenched. I mean, I'm all for knowing good techniques, but good techniques are pretty inconsequential until you can actually conduct pleasure.

So I'm curious on what. What are your thoughts on. Because I know this is a big one, and this is definitely a bigger one for me now that I'm a new mother. The time and the energy that you were talking about. Because a lot of people, you know, I don't have time and I don't have the energy. You know, like, it's an end of the day. Like, it'd probably be nice to do it, but I kind of just want to go to bed.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's why it's so important that you do things throughout the day that make you feel like you have pleasure. Because you're absolutely right. I mean, at the end of a long workday, I'm not up for it either. There's no way. It's like bed. But usually for me, just entering my body will produce a whole other disposition. And that still might not mean something, sex. But that might mean sensual connection or some form of sexual connection. So particularly when you're a young mother, a new mother, you're gonna have to grab seconds here. You have to derive your pleasure from the fact that you were able to brush your teeth and put some lotion on or massage your baby or, you know, you have 10 minutes to yourself or whatever it is. You just have to remember that this stuff accumulates.

That's great.

Right.

And then you just get more skill at it. You know, I definitely, as I've been practicing and I notice I'm more aware of it. I've made it a priority, and I'm more aware of it. And I can have the thought to, like, slow down and it's exactly becoming a skill.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Just a skill and it's where you put your attention. Right. So, yeah, I love.

And it's so great too, because just entering into our bodies, I find so many of people nowadays in the modern world, like, we're very disconnected from our bodies.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a good reminder, a great reminder to just settle. And I love that too, when you're saying bouncing in the water, just grounding that energy, all of our head, our to do's our thinking.

Just. Yeah.

Wash it out.

Yeah, yeah, Right. And so, you know, I think one of the biggest things Brian could do for you at the end of the day is just massage your feet.

He's great with that.

He's great.

I love how you're just talking about this because he's like the amazing demonstration of that. He's like. Always wants me to be like, what's gonna make you happy? What's pleasurable? Like, get a massage. He's all about me doing those things. And he always gives me a massage. Like, I rarely give him a massage, actually. And I'm a massage therapist and he's always giving them to me. Sometimes I feel guilty. But this is crazy, right? It's good for you.

Yeah, yeah. That's how it should be. Your pleasure enters your body, which gives him pleasure.

I know. I love that.

Right?

That's like, so it's so great for us women to hear that, that it's really. That they really get so much pleasure. And I see it. I see it in my husband. I see how much pleasure he gets, but I don't get that same. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it the same. Same way he gets it.

No, no. You are supposed to conduct pleasure, so to speak. He's supposed to receive pleasure. That's the way it goes. So you giving him a massage, even though, you know you might be loving doing it, is not necessarily giving you pleasure. Yeah, giving you a massage is definitely giving him pleasure.

Yeah, I told. I sometimes am, like, confused, and he, like, loves it and I'm like, I don't have that same experience.

That's because you're not a man.

Wow, this is so great. So, but speaking of the man, masculine, feminine, like, how do we balance those and what. How do they impact our pleasure and our sensuality and our sexuality? And, you know, you said we have feminine, women have more feminine, but how do we still have masculine? So maybe just chat a little bit on that.

Yeah, I think that's a good one because, you know, there's so many people out There throwing these terms around these days. And you know, I think that the place to start is that David, David Data, who, you know, I have the great pleasure of teaching with, really defined it well. And it gets so perverted by people because they say men and women. And what I talked about earlier, evolutionarily speaking, that's men and women, that's not masculine, feminine. So you know, women have children, men hunt in the cave days. That's not masculine, feminine, that's men, women. But masculine and feminine we have, and we have both. So each man and each woman have both masculine and feminine. So no woman is just feminine and no man is just masculine. Can't be. Would be horrible if they were. There's a spectrum. And so within that spectrum, women, not all women, but many more women than not have a feminine essence, meaning they're more at home in the feminine aspects of their being and less and have less masculine aspects, but they have them. Many men are having predominantly or more masculine aspects than feminine aspects. And so typically men who have more masculine aspects than feminine are attracted to women who have more feminine aspects than masculine. Would be a woman being more masculine being attracted to a man who is naturally more feminine. So that doesn't necessarily mean people are gay, but it could also be that two men who are sexually attracted to each other, one has a more feminine essence and one has a more masculine essence and that attracts sexually as well. And the same with women, with, you know, same sex women partners, one typically tends to be more masculine in her expression than the other. And how sex happens, it's the masculine, the feminine being poles that create an arc of polarity. And the polarity is what makes you want to have sex. The polarity is that spark or the juice or whatever you want to call it. So how it is these days is that most people actually are pretty developed in both. So most women, because of the way the world works, have actually a quite well developed masculine and they have good capacities and they know how to use their masculine and they should. It's just because of what we talked about earlier. When you are a woman wanting to be more in your feminine because that's more pleasurable, then your masculine capacities need to be parked somewhere for when you meet them again so that you can reside in the realm of the sensual and sexual pleasure. When you are man and you want to make an impact in the world and you want to fulfill your purpose, which is the deep masculine pleasure, then you will have to do things that strengthen and fortify your masculine. But that doesn't Mean that you shouldn't have your feminine aspects well developed, which would be intuition, sensitivity, attention to, you know, things of beauty. But that's probably not what gets the job done in the purpose department.

Right.

Like having a strong purpose and knowing where you're going and always, you know, striving forward doesn't get the job done in the pleasure, relationship, love department.

Right. And that's where a lot of us women like to play.

Exactly. So when you have a feminine essence as a woman, that's where you want to live.

And it's interesting because I feel, you know, as you're talking about this, I have more of a feminine essence. Obviously. Not obviously, but I do. And it's just interesting in our culture how I have a pretty strong masculine as well, being an athlete and just business and things like that. But I don't really care that much about the mask, you know, I just want to. I have very different kind of life visions than Brian does. Brian runs our business. I mean, he is masculine, he has a strong purpose. And I think a lot of us women think that we should try to be like men or like the masculine all the time.

Yes. Well, if you want to get the job done, you will have to be more like a man because the job gets done in the masculine domain. Right, but that's not a should, that should be a choice. Right, right. So theoretically, if you choose to, which you clearly don't, and I don't either in a certain domain. Right. But if you choose to strive for world domination, so to speak, you know, then you get up in the morning and you start doing what needs to be done. There's very little pleasure there. Pleasure is in winning and not in the pursuit of things. And then you could come home and, you know, put the purpose suit down and put the pleasure body on. But that takes a lot of practice.

Yeah, yeah.

And it can be done and there's lots of women who have successfully done both. But it takes work and it's hard. Some people have to make that choice and suffer it. And they could learn how to at least animate the parts of them that are the soft feminine parts for the sake of their own heart and well being and also for the sake of a good sexual relationship. But yeah, I don't care about certain things that much either. I have to because I have a business to run and stuff like that. But when I'm given the choice between getting things done and puttering around the house, there's not really actually a choice, So. Yeah, but, but it can be Done. And I think in this particular day and age, both men and women should be friends and very familiar with both their masculine and their feminine. How life becomes a bit more artful and joyful is when you know what you got and you can wield your tools with some artistry. Just don't pop into these things. And out of these things, things randomly, you actually know how to animate your feminine. You know how to animate your masculine for the sake of. Sake of good sexual.

And I love what you said to the. The connect or the choice that you have the choice to what you're going to do, you know, because I think in our culture, getting things done is rewarded. You know, you're not going to get rewarded for at large for puttering around in your garden. Like, nobody's going to be like, oh, wow, you are amazing.

Believe me, I'm trying to work on this.

But.

Yes, I'd love to receive large paychecks for the size of my zucchini.

That's great. And it's such a great demonstration too, of like your commitment to pleasure.

Right.

You know, you could obviously be doing tons of things for your business and there's nothing wrong with that. Tons of things. And not having your garden in your farm.

Right, right.

But you're choosing pleasure.

Yes, I'm choosing a lot of different things at different times, but I definitely, you know, just from the choice of where I live and how I live, I've chosen a very rich and full and vast life. And my poor, suffering husband has to live with this crazy explosion of sensual abundance because he's very much a white room, one pillow, a computer, one book or some kind of a guy. You have spaces where you can have that. But I've chosen to live a, you know, hyper sensual, abundant, full life for the sake of, you know, what I do. And that means I'm getting less and less emails. Done.

That's great.

Yeah.

I love it too. And I think it's. One of the reasons I'm doing this too, is just like the pace of our world, you know, like the pace of the emails and that you can send an email across the world and expect to get an email right back. I mean, we didn't. At one point, that wasn't even possible, you know, or you had to write a letter and it was coming back in like, you know, weeks.

Yeah. And before that it was the stagecoach, you know, I think, I mean, there's no way of stemming that tide in a certain way. But I know for, you know, that for me, sometimes because, you know, I see clients, I teach workshops, I run all of David's stuff. You know, I organize his workshops, the stuff that we teach up here in oi. You know, so there's a lot happening that requires email. And I sometimes get four or five hundred emails a day. And of course people don't know that, but I'm always a bit offended when somebody sends me an email on Saturday afternoon and then by Sunday morning they're sending me another email going, did you not receive my last email? And it's like what people in God's name has to. Not everybody's in the office at all times. Right. There is such thing as a weekend or personal time or, you know, a moment without a phone. And so it's a fine line because of course, I do have to take care of business and want to take care of business. So not like I don't want to connect with people, but, you know, Monday morning has to be. Yeah, happens not Saturday at 5 o' clock in the afternoon, you know, and I think that's a discipline that most people no longer have.

Yeah, I totally. I mean, we're recently just kind of restructuring our business for everybody and how much they are checking email and just like the accessibility and how we can actually go slower in our business, get. Be productive and get things done. But that there doesn't need to be. You're not working 24 7. It's not necessary. But I think for so many of us, we don't want to be like out of the race or something, so we're like all speeding up. And I just, I hope with this conference too, that people just feel kind of a. I don't need to go so fast.

Right, right. And you don't need to do emails every moment, the very moment. I mean, it's highly addictive.

It is ridiculously addictive.

Yeah. I mean. Yeah. And really there's so much more to life. Right. Than that. Like I said, I don't think we can spin the tide per se, but I certainly am making a good attempt to carve out other aspects of life that are still, you know, and that's the other thing. I mean, you know, we both live in one of the, you know, most beautiful places in Southern California, I think. I mean, I agree there's. There's really no reason to be inside that much. Right. We both get to work from home for the most part, and I still travel quite a bit, which I also love for the sensual lights it brings. But. But there's really no reason when talking about, you know, avoiding certain things versus other things. I just bought a metal bed at a thrift store down on Montgomery that I put out in the middle of my backyard. Bought a mattress that. That's covered with some, you know, kind of water resistant fabric and we've been sleeping out. Wow. And so the delight of waking up as literally the sun rises and the bees are buzzing in the oak tree above and the first birds and then you hear the chickens starting to crow, that sets a whole other pace for the morning. I am not nearly as apt to check emails before my first cup of tea. And I also know that most people don't live like that.

But then like you come back to and there's. I mean, there's certain situations, but then it also is like having the choice and then having our desires. Right. Like we have the desires for that. What steps can we make to move forward? Because, you know, both of us have our lives and we're very blessed, but we've made choices, can so consistently that, you know, lead us to where we are.

Choices and sacrifices. So. But that's the thing, you know, when we talk about how do you live a pleasurable life or sensual life, or, you know, you have to know your choices and you have to make them and put as much attention on that because. And like I said to me, you know, there's whole schools out there that just teach pleasure for the pleasure's sake. That to me is kind of self indulgent. That's not to say that one shouldn't have pleasure, but pleasure should be for the sake of God or however you want to say that for the sake of your community, for the sake of your children, for the sake of life lived fully. So it has a purpose and hence it requires a choice. It's not just an indulgence.

Yeah, I love that. And it's a gift. It's a gift for your community and family.

Yeah. Yeah, right. That's awesome.

I love that you're sleeping outside. Yeah, I do too. It's amazing.

It's just such a.

Like you don't have any tents or anything. You're just like, oh, no, it's just, just.

It's a beautiful bed, you know, and it's quite massive. And I have a down comforter so that it doesn't get cold because it still gets cold at night. And I have it so that it's right above the stars and you see every star and you know, you listen to the owls and it's just, it's amazing. Wow.

I'm super inspired, you know, and of.

Course, in Southern California, we have that luxury because, you know, it's not raining, so. No, it's incredible. And it's a small thing. Yeah, it's a small thing.

I love that. I can't wait to see it. I need to come up here.

I'll send you a photo. Come up there. That's another thing. Right. I mean, we live in the same town and we haven't seen each other in how long?

I know. Forever. Yes. And my son and I are gonna come up and see your farm.

Yes. We're going to. Okay. Yes. Yes. I have a new baby goat, so he would definitely love that, too, so. Oh, so awesome.

Michaela has an awesome, amazing, obviously sensually abundant farm. So much fun.

Yeah. Yeah.

Fantastic. Was there any other last, last thoughts on pleasure?

I think we covered it pretty well. And all I can say is pleasure is literally everywhere where you increase your. Or where you experience your senses. So there's really no excuse to not engage the senses. It's happening anyway.

Fantastic. Pleasure is everywhere.

Everywhere.

Nice. Beautiful. So where do people find out more about you, connect with you and your work?

Well, I'm assuming you post some sort of a link. Right. But my website's michaelaboem.com, which is spelled like M I C H A E L A B O E H M. My assistance phone number is 323-782-0414. That's always a good way to reach me. You cannot reach me personally because I'm out digging in the yard. Yeah.

She's got life to live. She will get back to you.

Apple butter to cook and workshops to teach. And I still travel quite a bit, so I've spent a lot of time in London this year and teaching in London as well. So that's a whole other realm of sensual pleasure. Yeah.

Oh, so great.

Yes.

Well, thank you so much. It's always a delight to be talking with you and thanks for all your awesome wisdom.

Perfect.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Mama Goddess. Sending you lots of love and blessings. If you'd like to connect more, go to mamagoddess.com until next time. Keep rocking it and have an awesome.