Living the Creative Life with Charlie Gilkey

Foreign.

Hi. Greg Faxson here. In the spring of 2015, I had the honor of interviewing a select group of incredibly brave entrepreneurs. Some of them, like Seth Godin, you may recognize, others you may not. All of them have done the hard work, mentally and emotionally, of building businesses that support them while making a positive.

Difference in the world.

These interviews will give you the inspiration and strategies you need to do the same. I hope to help you take action on something that scares you today. Thanks for listening.

Welcome to the Bravery Project. Today I'm talking to Charlie Gilke. Charlie is an author, a speaker, he's a business advisor, and he's also the founder of a website called Productive Flourishing, which I found early on in my business journey and was really helpful. So I was excited to meet him at a seminar I went to recently. And the easiest way, I think, to describe what Charlie does is just to say that he helps people finish the stuff that matters. So, Charlie, thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

Thanks so much for having me today, Greg. I'm pumped to be here.

Awesome. So the way I like to start these interviews is by having people fill in the blank. So bravery is.

Doing something even though it scares you to do it.

So tell me more.

Well, I think one of the most pernicious things that people hear is like, get over your fears. Look, you never get over your fears, right? They're always going to be with you. But what we learn to do is to work with and through the fear and also to learn how that fear really informs us about the, you know, stuff that matters to us. Because, you know, like, let's take it this way, Greg. Let's take some random shirt that you happen to be wearing, and it happens to tear. You get something in it. It's like just a random shirt. You don't care. You replace the shirt. There's no emotion tied to that particular shirt. However, if it's your favorite shirt and that shirt rips, then it's a big deal. You get what I'm saying?

It's the things we value most, right?

It's the things we value most and the things that blow up the most intense emotion for us that tell us what matters to us. And so, really, a lot of times, fear tells us we're about to do something that challenges something that we hold dear. That's good information there. But also what we do is we assume that because we're afraid of something that it's information telling us we shouldn't do it, Right? And that's often not true. So the reason I like to talk about bravery in the sense of, like, doing something even though you're afraid of it is because there's no sense in saying, like, get over your fears and just do it. No, you. You. You get through those, but you also pay attention to what that fear is telling you, because it can be very, very useful information.

So, Charlie, tell me a little bit about your story, right? Where some. Where were some points in your story as an entrepreneur where you were kind of feeling the fear and you had to lean into it.

Wow. I experienced more fear before being an entrepreneur than I ever really have being an entrepreneur. And that comes from both my military experience and just some crazy things that I did as a youth and Boy Scouts and things like that. So I learned very early how to work through fear. And, like, you know, if you're doing something as simple as repelling off the side of a mountain, like, you look over the edge of the mountain, you're like, holy crap, I'm not doing this. But you check your gear, you check your knots, you check your training, and you jump, you know, and so I had a lot of really formative experiences with those. And then a lot of times when I'm going through something in the business, I say, not like I'm getting shot at or it's not like I'm about to fall off the side of a cliff. It helps me keep things in perspective. But I think I'll answer some specific questions. Like, right now, I'm doing a blogging project called A Month of no Hiding. And this also came up a bit from the seminar that we attended, because I realized that I was kind of hiding under the science and tech of blogging and all the random BS that you get into checking stats and headlines and viral priming and all that stuff that you know how to do. But you also know, like, come on, like, stand up, right? And so that's been really. That's. I've had some theory and some. Some really guerrilla fears because it's like, I don't have an editorial. Editorial calendar. I have no idea what I'm going to write today. I have no idea of what I write is actually any good. Right. I'm just putting it out there and driving on. Right. And so you're like, so what? It's a blog. Well, when you've been doing this for a while and you have, like, you know, one of the top websites in productivity and planning and people actually read it, it's really scary to be like, you know what? I have no friggin idea what I'm doing. I'm just showing up and putting it out there, right? So, you know, that's every time I go through a product launch of my own, I have those senses of fear coming up. Because you, you know, you've put in a lot of hard work and you never know how it's going to pan out.

Right?

You never know. Did I just waste 5k on this, you know, on all the developments product, I'm never going to get it back? Or did I completely misunderstand what my, what my people needed from me and not make something for them? Or am I going to put it out there and people don't like it? Right? So, you know, that happens about every time I go for a launch and I'm, you know, I've got a product that's going to be hitting, hitting the shelves here, and it's just a little one, but I still feel, I'm like, seriously, it's this little project, but it's always there, you know, always there. And I think it's just like I said earlier, like, you learn, you learn with entrepreneurship and let's extend it past entrepreneurship and talk about just living the creative life. You learn that there's this. The sometimes the best places that you can be is to have that low level of creative doubt to yourself that makes you, like, push your edge that a little bit more. What I get worried about when people don't have that creative doubt because then they start phoning it in. Myself as well. To be clear, I'm putting myself on there. I know when I'm. When I'm phoning it in again. That's why I'm doing this project. People ask me about the month of no hiding project. I'm not trying to hijack the conversation here, but it's what we're talking about. And they're like, no, seriously, Charlie, what are you going to do with this? Is there a launch coming up? I'm like, I don't know. No. I don't know if I'm going to do this for a month and then decide I don't want to do it. I don't know if I'm going to love it. I don't know what really is going to happen. And when people know you as a business strategist, they don't want to accept that answer. I really don't know. But that's the fun thing about it is I don't know.

So is the scary part not having the plan, not having it all planned out, or is it Something else.

That's a bit of it. A bit of it is. And this goes to brand promises and things like that, right. People expect you to have an idea of what's going on when you're in my position, right? And just being like, I don't know what's going on and having. What's the weird. Not that you're being rejected, but that people don't believe it, you know, so that's part of it. And then there's just. The funny thing about it is anytime you do any project in the world, it displaces a whole slew of other things you could have done. And so there's always when we're time cramped and when we have just a production schedule and things like that going, there's always this risk that what you're doing now is going to displace something else that was going to be more important.

Right.

So, but given that I have no goals set up for this really, besides publishing daily, and that's about. Really helps ease, you know, the little fears of wasted time and fears of like, what the hell am I going to do next and how am I going to make this all make sense? And all those types of things that you, that you get into, like when you're a strategist. And so I don't know if that's. If that's explaining anything or pulling it. Pulling people on the inside. But just really what I've told other clients in the past, and this, this is really some people, okay, what I've told people in the past, and it's true for all of us, is the very hardest thing you can do is just stand up and be seen sometimes, you know, and to be that transparent about things and not know what's going on and say, you know what? I've got something to say. And here it is. And do that repeatedly. And do that repeatedly and do it again without having the cloak of strategy, without having a cloak of a plan, without having a cloak of some sense of where this is going. That's just really one of those things that's really fun about this project. But that's also what had kept me from doing it for a while. What am I going to do with it? I don't know. You know, where is it going to go? I don't know. And so it's kind of like one of those things. Like, you know, I've got a book coming out in June, and that's not the product I was talking about, but I got a book coming out sometime In June. And it's like, I think we have to always be expanding our comfort zone with things like this. Not, not, you know, getting out of our comfort zone, because you never do that either, right? But expanding in the comfort zone and be like, you know what? This is that same thing that I felt back in April and it was okay then. It's the same thing that I felt back in January, and it was okay then. It's the same thing that I felt back in 2008 and 7 and 6 when I started all of this stuff.

Right.

It just stays with you, man.

When does that fear come up for you in the course of a project? So just for me, I just released this little free guide. And when I was writing, wasn't scary, it was like a generous thing. It's like I'm writing this guide. It's just for me, right? It's for me in part just to prepare me for the fear of writing a bigger book. It's because I want to put these thoughts out into the world. And it was just this generous thing. And then as I was about to release it, it was like almost a selfishness came in. Like, okay, are people going to like it? Because I put a lot of work into this, so they better like it. Right. And there was some shift. So. So I'm curious for you. When does the fear come in? Or is it just kind of a low level?

Throughout the project, I've learned to anticipate and project that fear of shipping that you just mentioned. Right. I know that when I start a project that I'm going to get there. That being said, it does heighten around ship day. Right. It's like, okay, now this thing that I thought was really cool is going to be seen by other people. Is it really that cool? Right? Or, you know, and this is the. Sounds like one of those celebrity problems. I don't have a lot of those. But one of those things is like when, at a certain point when you put something out, it's like, what is Seth going to think? What is Pam going to think? What is, you know, Merlin going to think? Like, what are these people that you care about? Like, they actually care. Like, they're really invested in reading everything that you do and making sure to give you provide you commentary. Right? That's not the way it works. But that's the fear that comes up is like, what if I. What if I don't live up to the expectations? What if I don't? What if I write something and like, you know, the people who believe in me are embarrassed about what I've created. Right. Those types of things come up as you get closer. And because you can see it, like, as soon as you start to let that thing go, it's like, oh, no, I really got to let it go. I really got to let this thing go. And I think that's. That's where the fear is the most intense at that point.

Do you have any strategies for. Because you've done it a few. You've done it a bunch of times now for dealing with that fear of shipping.

Yeah. One strategy is to bring people into the process earlier. So, you know, I just mentioned Pam. That's Pam Slim, a sister, friend, teacher, co. Like, we do a lot of stuff together, right? And so if I'm already like, hey, like, I'm. I'm concerned about what she thinks, well, I can bring her in earlier into the project and get feedback before I let it go. Right. And so that's one thing you can pull the people in that you most want to celebrate with you. Right. The other thing that. And I just mentioned it without really thinking about it, the biggest frame is to accept and really feel that the people who most care about you, that you most want to serve are waiting for you to give this thing to them. It's not like you're interrupting them. It's not like you're, like, throwing it at them. It's not like you're, you know, all up in their face with it. But like, if you really get centered and you're coming from a place of creative service and you're creating stuff for people, they're waiting for you to do that, right. That activates, you know, a leader, sort of pack animal, part of me, right? Where it's like one thing, if it's Greg, if it's just me on my own, I'm worthless as a creative, right? I really am. Because I won't do anything. I know it. It's not fun for me to think about, but if I know you're waiting on me, it changes the whole thing, right? It changes the whole thing for me. So it's getting the mindset that the people who you're most wanting to serve are waiting on you to do that. And not in a bad way, like hair the hell up, but just like, no, really, I would really like to receive that this morning. That's a gift. I think after that is public accountability can be really useful for things. If you say you're going to ship something by April 15th, well, you look more stupid. You're more embarrassed by not shipping something on April 15th. And if you just are like, I'll work on it for another week or two. And you know what I'm saying, Greg? It's really easy to work on stuff for another week or two, right? A week or two becomes a month, a month becomes a quarter. All of a sudden you haven't shipped.

So one of the things that I'm hearing, which I think is really, really important, is to get outside of yourself as early as possible. Right now that could be a deadline, that could be the book cover, right? That could be sharing it with your mentors and coaches. But I think that it's a little bit counterintuitive to get it out before it's ready. And if you do, coincidentally, it happens to be a great business strategy, right? Because now you've co created it and you have some buy in and anticipation. But I think it's really counterintuitive for people not just on a project level, but on like a business level. Right. Like I just need to come up with the best idea in my head and then hope that it works when I ship it. Well, you should be scared because you have no validation externally about whether it's going to work and you just invested thousands of dollars into it as opposed to. Right. Doing some market research or putting little mini versions out there so you can get some feedback.

Yeah, man, that's really the way it goes. When I talk about rapid prototyping from either business or creative perspective, think about how easy the world, how simple this is in the world. Simple is not easy. So you saw me slip up there. But simple is not easy. But you can put out a Facebook post. People like that Facebook post. You write out a blog post that people like that blog post. You turn that into a small ebook. People like that small ebook. You turn that small ebook into a ebook, into a webinar that people attend to and they really like that webinar. You turn that webinar into a bigger sort of Kindle book and they like that, right? You can grow by creative accretion, these types of things and get validation along the way. Where we fail, I believe, is when we hold on to that idea until it's the book, the big final project on the end, and then we're shipping it out there because then we've got like years of our own stuff in the way as opposed to saying, hey, I liked that idea. There's and there's someone saying, hey, I like that idea there. And I liked how you put that together. Oh, validation. Do it again. Validation. Oh, more people like it. Oh, I need to add this. And so by the time you get it out there, you already know it works. You already know that people want it and you've just been doing it along the way. And it just pulls, this pulls us into a place to where we can have daily prolificness, you know, because you're just always creating something. That's where I try to stay my, like the most in is like I, you know, people have asked me when I'm writing a big book, and by that they mean a big traditional, like the 218 page book. And I'm like, I don't know, I really don't, I don't particularly want to read a lot of those books and people have told me that they don't particularly want to read them. So I don't know why I would want to make it right now. But I'm constantly writing books, you know, I'm constantly working these ideas and oh, I've got little buckets where like this, this blog post could go there, this, this interview that I'm doing with Greg. There are pieces of that that can go into the book. And I'm always creating something that way. And I think in this world of hyper creativity and fast deadlines and a new way of publish or parish showing up, you got to kind of accept that mindset. And going back to Seth, since we've sort of jumped around him a few times, dude is going to write a book or two a year, we know that. Right. And that's been a very good strategy for him, or not strategy, I don't want to call it that way. That's been a very good way of him being in the world.

This is Seth Godin, by the way.

Yeah, Seth Godin. If you're listening and you don't know who Seth Godin is, go to the blog, subscribe, you'll have a great time. So the thing about it is, when you start this prototyping thing earlier, it really does help assuage all of these different fears that might come up, Right.

Fear of failure is huge for people, right? So if you're going to fear failure, fear the fact that you failed to validate it ahead of time, right? You're going to fear any type of failure. Feel the failure of the failures you had earlier on when you didn't get out into the world. Because there is, I mean, it's a valid fear, right, of failing with something that's never proven. There's a reason we have Those fears, right? Because the higher and higher you're putting pressure on yourself to get it right based on no external evidence, the more risky it is. And so I think the idea with bravery is one of the things that you're saying is bravery isn't about doing the riskiest thing, it's about mitigating your risk in order to do things that other people see as scary.

Yeah, it's mitigating the risk when we look at. Okay, so this is going to be the philosopher a bit. So hold on with me, homie. Greg. I hope this is going to be worth it.

Let's go.

There's bravery is the mean between cowardice and brashness, right? So bravery is in that sweet spot, that moderate spot, right. And this is just Aristotelian ethics here, right. Um, now I'm not recommending brashness. Like just throw everything out there and just jump off, you know, jump out of the airplane before you built a parachute. I really don't think that that's useful for a lot of people. Some people have that in their DNA and in their personality. Fine. If that's you jump out of the plane without that parachute, that's fantastic. Many people don't have that and that's okay. So what we're looking for is saying, okay, we're not going to be cowards here, we're not going to always hide. And by the way, perfectionism is one of the best ways, it's one of the most guerrilla ways that fear comes up, right. And causes to be cowards. Because what we tell ourselves is it's got to be perfect before we put it out. Because what we tell ourselves is the product that we make is a reflection of our value as people. And if the product isn't good, we're not good. That's not true. Right. You can make a really crappy product, be a really good person, and you can be, make a fantastic product and be a crappy person. Right? Separate the difference between your own self worth and what you create and you can start to pull down the walls of perfectionism, which is really a fear of rejection when you peel back all of the different layers. So bravery when it comes to work like that is really understanding that that fear is there and addressing it head on. I'm afraid that this is not going to be good. Well, how do you make it good? You bring in other people. And the people that you most want to bring in know that you're a good person. They know that you're smart, they know that you're caring. They already know all these things. So I'm going to pause here, right. Because there's a lot of times where we get stuck in this mindset where we're trying to prove our naysayers wrong, right? All those different naysayers. And it could be your third grade teacher, it could be that one bully, it could be that girl that laughed at you. And wherever it is, like we have these naysayers that come around with us and we're always trying to prove them wrong. Screw that. Prove your yea sayers right. Right. Prove all those people that believe in you, all those people that know you've got them, that you've got the spec. The special sauce. All those people that are just waiting on you to shine. Prove them right. Screw the naysayers. They're always. They've got a job of being a naysayer. That's what they do, right? Never going to make them happy. You're never going to prove them wrong. Spend your time proving your yay sayers right. And that's where, when we get into bravery, and I know it might sound very. I don't know how all this is tying together from your side, Greg, but it's really one of those things where when you spend your time proving your yea sayers right, you really don't need to be all that brave.

I love it. I love it. So what I want to turn back to you now because I love the. That's really, really helpful, getting the conceptual piece. What scares you right, Charlie Gilkey, what scares you most?

That's a good question. Let me find the honest answer. From a professional perspective, it would be wasting people's time and attention, I believe. Right? Time and attention are really special. And like I mentioned earlier, we all got stuff to do. And if someone's listening to this interview and they're like, well, that was a dud. You know what? I just kind of took 30 minutes of their life, right? They could have done something else there, however long this turns out. So I'm really sensitive about that, right. And so that's, that's one of my fears. And I guess the other thing, and this is a deep core thing, is making people feel. What's the word? Not included in the conversation. Not included. Like, like they don't matter. Right. They cannot fit into the conversation. This might not be relevant to them, but, you know, if they feel like, you know, I don't matter, like, I never want someone to feel that way from my work or from me being around them. And so that that's really what I look at when I get scared. I'm like, okay, when it comes to my own work, is, is this wasting someone's time and attention because they could have done something else? And did someone really see this and felt like they weren't a part, they weren't in community with us? As you know, I call my people creative giants. Right. I never want a creative giant to feel that they're not a part of the community. And here's the funny thing. I know that it's a fear. I know you know, how irrational it is. And I know that I don't get to make anybody feel anything. People feel their own things, right. But it's still one of those things that I get really, really concerned about. But again, for me, it's all about perspective. I'm not getting shot at. I'm not jumping off the side of a cliff. There's no physical harm. There's, there's, you know, that there's. So I don't have those types of fears. And you know what? Like, if productive flourishing and my business failed tomorrow, I'd do something else. Right. I've done that several times. I'm not afraid of that.

Well, yeah, what I love about that is the things that you're scared of are not. I don't think what people get scared of in the initial phases of will this work? Will I go broke? Right. People who are maybe making the transition to entrepreneurship. Because what you didn't say is I'm scared of running out of money. Right. You said, I'm scared of wasting time and attention. And you didn't even say I'm scared of wasting their money. Right. I don't know if that's a fear for you or not, but it more revolved around what is the feeling that I want my audience to feel and what are the feelings that I really hope that they never feel because I'm here to take care of them. And that mindset is a high achieving mindset. Right. I think, I mean, I think that that mindset leads you to create better stuff. And as long as you realize it's not rational and you can be okay with, you know, risking that it's gonna happen. I love that way of reframing the fear.

Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's really one of the fears behind like the, the project that I mentioned earlier. It's like I could really be wasting people's time, you know, but the way I set it up, I set up rules to I know myself, I know Myself really, really well. And so that's. That's part of it, right? The whole philosophical, Socratic, like, know thyself. Right. We saying that for millennia. And there's a very good reason why we say that, by the way. That's not just in the Western tradition. That's in the Eastern tradition as well, with Sun Tzu, so on and so forth. But, but a set of rules. I'm like, look, I'm going to be publishing daily. I don't know what's going to happen. If you want to follow this along, here you go. Like, and if someone, like, doesn't want to follow along, okay. Like, I kind of gave them the option, like, you don't have to go on this journey. That could be a complete waste of time. Right. With me.

So I want to pause you. I actually want to pause you because I think this is really important. When you manipulate in business, I think it's more likely that you have some fears that end up GNawing at you versus if you take a permission approach or you inspire rather than manipulate. It's easier later in the process to say, okay, I know I'm scared of wasting people's time and attention, all of this, but I deliberately set up a system where they would have the choice to come on the journey with me.

Yeah, yeah. Permission and invitation is where I would want to switch so much of the marketing and sales stuff that goes out there, which scares a lot of people, especially in the early stage of entrepreneurship. Because when we think about permission and invitation as opposed to. Projection and persuasion in a different way. Right. Not persuasion. Manipulation is. I'll use your word. When we think that sales and marketing are projection, rejection and manipulation, we can feel really awkward. However, when marketing of sales becomes permission and an invitation, it changes things. I could say, Greg, this has been a fantastic conversation. Or if we met somewhere offline and we were having a really good business conversation, or just a conversation, and you wanted to continue to have those conversations with me as an advisor, I could say, you know what, Greg, this has been really fun talking to you. I've enjoyed helping you. If you would like at any point to work with me, I would love that. And here's how you can do that. I could walk away from that point. Right, right.

And you're not attached to the outcome and people can sense it.

Yeah. And now they're like, oh, well, you know, that must be nice because, like, I'm in earlier, like, you know, someone listening who might be in an earlier stage of entrepreneurship. It must be nice to be able to walk away. But I got to feed myself, right? And I totally get that. Like, I have. Sorry about that. Hit my mic. I have those same things. I've got a roof over my head, right. I've gotten to pay for and things like that. But I think it's just, you know, what, like showing up and getting people's permission and invitation to serve them and being generous and then following through with that. It's going to pay for itself. It always does. Right. And you can call that a strategy if you want to, like a business strategy, or you can just call it, like, the way of humans. Right. The way we have always been together is we build these little communities of people who have interdependent needs and, you know, interdependent goals and that do so generously. And then you look at thriving communities, there's always this very, very high level of generosity and interdependence. And we are each responsible and have the capabilities of creating those relationships with those around us. We don't need someone else to pick us to do that. We can just do that. So I know I went on a side ramp about human networks, but that's.

One of the things that you said earlier on was someone who's earlier in their entrepreneurial journey might feel the need to manipulate more. Like, I got to do it fast. I just got to get it. Like, it doesn't feel comfortable, but I feel like I have to do it this way, and I can't be kind of the cool cucumber. Like, you know, I don't need it and feel not attached. Actually, I'm skeptical of that. I think you can, you know, because I remember a shift where I went from needy to not attached at all to the outcome. And it didn't have to do with money earlier on in my business. It was really because I realized, number one, I want it to be in line with who I am and my values. But number two, it actually will be more effective this way. And so I think that that's important for people to get, because you're right, it is a common fear of coming off as salesy or pushy or all this stuff when you're starting off in your business. And it makes sense that people would feel that way because no one really wants to be that guy in their business.

Yeah, no one wants to be that guy. And if you're really interested in this conversation, I would highly recommend Dan Pink's To Sell as Human. It's a book that he published. It's a great book. On this. Here's what happens. Here's the cycle that happens for an early stage entrepreneur in the business. Now, if you're interested about all this early stage stuff, I've actually written a book called the Small Business Life Cycle that discusses the different stages of small business growth. And there's, you know, stuff on my website about it too, that you can check out. But the cycle becomes people are really scared, nervous, anxious, desperate to get paid. We try to bottle that up, mask it and talk to people, but we're really, really good as people at sensing that. So we end up pushing them away a little bit because there's this weird energy. The person who is then desperate and the pursuer gets even more awkward and pushes more and pushes more. Right. And doesn't want to show up because he's like, oh man, I need to send this email again. But I don't know if it's going to work or I got to get on this call and talk to this person and it's not going well. And we tell that we build up all of this thing. When you approach it from a place of generosity and permission and invitation, it's like you're blessing to get to write to this person and talk to them. Like, hey man, I got to talk to Greg. I need to send this email. I want to send him something along the way.

Right.

And you can show up with a completely different energy. And it makes a difference. It just really makes a huge difference for the person that's the pursuer, because the pursuer becomes the server. Think about it. The pursuer becomes the server and the person being pursued becomes the person being served.

Really powerful.

So we didn't know we were going to talk about sales today, but there we go.

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's really at the core, I think a lot of people don't realize that sales is. A lot of people who succeed as entrepreneurs start off as great salespeople. So you wrote an article, you know, when I first came across your work before you met, called the 50 plus better questions to Ask than how to be More Productive. And I always like to leave people who are listening to these interviews kind of like, you know, one action step or one takeaway right at the end. And I think probably everyone listening has the question, how do I be more productive? So if you had to choose one better question to ask than how to be more productive, what would that question be?

I'm going to make it a compound question. All right, what matters today and how am I taking action on It.

And what shifts when you ask that question instead of how to be more productive?

Well, it focuses on two things. It focuses on the things that matter to you, actually, the priorities. And it shifts it away from what will I get done? To what do I need to do? And I know those seem to be subtle shifts, but you know what? It's hard to say sometimes when you're going to finish something, right? But I think we can all sleep at night when we know that we really sleep well at night, when we really showed up and took action on the stuff that mattered to us now. Stuff. It could be your relationship with your partner. It can be your backyard project. It can be this creative project. It can be a business project. I don't care what your stuff is. Right. If it matters to you, my chief question is, what are you doing day to day to take action on that, to pursue or to cultivate it and to get where you're trying to go with that. If you showed up and you really showed up and you got away from all of the distractions, all of the different ways in which you might hide with the project, ways you might make it this way and that way and just really took focused action on it, that was the best you had today, and you did that every day. You'd be just blown away by what you can get done. So that's why I would start with that question. What matters to you today and what are you doing to take action on it?

I love it. Thanks, Charlie.

Thanks so much for having me.

All right, we'll talk soon, brother. Bye.

Thank you for listening to the Bravery Project with Greg Faxson. To learn more about Greg and to subscribe to his weekly Updates, please visit GregFaxson.com if you enjoyed this episode, send it to a friend, or leave a rating interview in itunes. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.