Episode 17 | Part One: Rewire for Wealth

Gregory Shepard, an entrepreneur who's built and sold 12 businesses, a recipient of 4 private equity awards, TEDx speaker, and Forbes author. This is The Boss Podcast with Gregory Shepard.

I want to start this episode with an apology. I've not talked enough on this podcast about female entrepreneurs, and this week I'm going I'm gonna change that. Joining me on the show is Barbara Hewson. Barbara is a bestselling author, financial therapist, and wealth coach. She's written 7 books, including one of my favorites, Sacred Success, and her latest, Rewire for Wealth. Barbara, it's such an honor. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited.

Thank you, Greg. I'm so excited to be here.

I mean, it's, it's just a real big deal for me. I've followed you. I've seen you on just basically every news channel, CNN, NBC, CNBC, Fox, PBS, NPR, New York Times, USA Today. It's like you're just everywhere as the person for women in finance, and it's just real benefit to have you. I wanted to sort of ask you the first question. This podcast is for startup entrepreneurs, and one of the things that I'm trying to focus on is helping out women entrepreneurs because there's not very many of them. I'm really trying to push this out there. So when you hear that term startup entrepreneur, What do you think makes or breaks a startup entrepreneur?

There's a lot of things, but my, my passion is financially empowering women. And I think that one of the things that's really critical for an entrepreneur, and because my focus is women, I'll say women, but everyone, because we, we start a business and I say we, because I'm an entrepreneur, we start a business because we are passionate. It is our mission. It is what we're here to do. And we often lose focus on the bottom line. So I think what's really critical is to keep one eye on your bigger vision and another eye on the bottom line, the costs of doing business. And so it's really, really important to make sure that you're watching your cost, you're watching your expenses while you're I did some studying, right?

When I was getting ready to do this whole thing to help out entrepreneurs, I did a lot of studying and I found out that like 4% of people that are underneath the medium income line have the opportunity to get out from underneath that. And 98% of the people that do it, do it by having some sort of a windfall. And 75% of those people do it by starting a business. And when I looked at the studies for women in particular, the numbers were just really heartbreaking in terms of their ability, how many entrepreneurs are women and how many of those entrepreneurs go to raise capital and how many are successful with their, you know, follow-on rounds and so on and so forth. And I was wondering, and I'm totally cool with making this all about women entrepreneurs. I love the idea. So if you want to focus on that, that's exciting. And I was wondering, you know, along those lines, when you think about these entrepreneurs, why do you think it is that the women entrepreneurs have a more difficult time raising capital? And why are there less women entrepreneurs than men entrepreneurs right now?

Well, I hadn't heard that statistic. So honestly, about there being less women entrepreneurs, I think men are more willing to take risks. When I was interviewing women for my book, Sacred Success, which I love that you like, When I was interviewing women who made millions, and most of them were entrepreneurs, not all of them, but most of them, and they were making 7 and 8 figures. And I remember asking them, why do women have so much trouble making this amount of money that you do and having the success you do? And they said to me, this is anecdotal, mind you, not statistics. They said to me, women in the world of work, Men walk in feeling entitled and are excited about taking risks, and they assume everybody knows that. Women walk in feeling flawed, are afraid everybody sees that, and holds back. And I think there is something in our upbringing, there's something in our evolutionary development that we have been primed to be the caretakers, and men have been the hunter-gatherers. And I think that's really playing out, that, that we're going through a great paradigm shift in the last—

20 years.

I don't know, 50 years, 100 years. And I think our brains haven't caught up.

Oh, interesting. So we're basically behind our own evolution.

Well, I think we're catching up. We're catching up. It has just been only recently since the Industrial Revolution, I believe, that women really worked out of the house. And I think that we do have a— and that's why I wrote my latest book called Rewire for Wealth, when I brought in neuroscience To really help our brains catch up to where we want to be, not to where we've always been.

I love that. In 2019, male founders brought in $109.36 billion in venture capital, while female founders only brought in $2.6 billion. So, that's where I was referencing is because I was looking at that data and I was like, how in the— so, then I went down and I said, okay, well, how many women are actually starting businesses. And when I got that data, I was like, okay, well, we need to put a lot more energy into helping women, along with people of different diversity, get into the entrepreneur game because it's, you know, it's, I mean, everything starts with an entrepreneur, right? So I'm just really interested in your advice for these women, right?

Yeah.

So if you're a woman and you're starting a business and you're trying to get off the ground, what would be your advice for them when it comes to presenting themselves to investors specifically? And I would maybe, maybe use the neural pathways as an, as a leap-off board or something. I'm not really sure.

But I think women need to get their businesses started before they go to investors. That's not the only way is to have investors. True. To have a good foundation, because when you do have investors, you give away a lot of control. So there's both of that. And I can't speak to why women don't have the investors that men do. I don't know those statistics, but they don't matter to me. What matters to me is each individual having a passion and then having a plan. And it could be just the plan they write on the back of an envelope, or it could be a full-blown business plan if they want funding, but they have a plan that they stick to and have a lot of support. I think that is really critical 'cause women, We tend to go it alone. There's a tendency in women to not want to reach out and ask for help, which is a big mistake. I think it's important to, right at the very beginning or very soon, have some kind of informal advisory board that you can get input from, to have formal advisors, and to build a firm foundation before you go to investors.

That's true. About 70% of entrepreneurs that are successful actually bootstrap it before they go to investors. So, it's really, really good advice. I wanted to start with that because there are so many reasons I wanted you on the podcast. But one of the biggest ones was your book, Sacred Success, and, you know, A Course in Financial Miracles. For folks who haven't read it yet, maybe you could describe your definition of sacred success.

I'm going to give you a little background before I do that. Okay.

Sure.

So I was a chronic under earner all my life and I interviewed women. Who made lots of money. I wrote the book Secrets of Six-Figure Women, and I started making 6 figures before I even finished the book just by interviewing those women. And it was like amazing to me that here I was making 6 figures. And then I wrote my next book, Overcoming Under-Earning, because I wanted to see if I could teach others what I had been learning. And then right after that book came out, one night in the middle of the night, I woke up And I thought, I have a new goal. I want to make millions, help millions, and give millions. And I got all excited and I thought, yeah, I know exactly how I'm going to do that. I'm going to interview women who make millions and that's going to be my next book. Well, I had no trouble finding women who made millions. I really didn't. But 3 years later, I had no book and I had no— I had nowhere near making millions. This was in 2009. It was probably my worst year financially in a long time. And I remember a coach said to me, Barbara, you're too into doing. You need time for just being.

Hmm.

So I took a 4-day retreat and I brought my interviews, the transcripts of those interviews, and I reread them. And I noticed what I had missed, that these women were playing a very different game than what the world models. And I call this game Sacred Success. And Sacred Success means pursuing your soul's purpose for your own bliss and the benefit of others while being richly rewarded.

Hmm.

I realized there's 3 levels of financial development. There's survival, there's stability, and there's affluence. Survival is not enough. Stability is just enough, and affluence is more than enough. To go from survival to stability, from not enough to just enough, you have to have a profit motive. Money is good. You love money. It's wonderful to make money. So many women are very ambivalent or dislike money. So you need to have a profit motive, but to go from stability to affluence. You need to give up profit as your primary goal. It's still a strong intention. You want to make money. All these women I interviewed wanted to make money clearly, but their primary goal was no longer profit. Their primary goal was greatness.

Hmm.

And I define greatness paraphrasing a quote by Fred Buckner. Greatness is that place where your deep gladness, Doing what you were put on this earth to do meets the world's great hunger. And that is sacred success.

Oh, that's beautiful. So, is that what you mean between— like, there's a difference between profit motive and comfort motive?

Yeah. A profit motive and a comfort motive cannot coexist. A comfort motive says, I want to be safe. I want to look good. I don't want to fall down. Well, if you have a comfort motive, you cannot possibly make a profit because profit means you have to go as far as you can with all that you've got. And then when you fall down, which you will, you get back up and keep going. So, profit always lies just outside your comfort zone.

Oh, I see. And that's the difference. That's the primary difference then. So, Sacred Success and profit versus comfort motive are kind of bound together then.

Yes. Comfort motive and profit motive are diametrically opposed. They are diametrically opposed. That's one of the reasons that keeps women from being successful is their deep desire to stay in their comfort zone. When success in anything, I don't care if it's making more money or losing more weight, it always lies just outside your comfort zone.

I see. I see. That actually makes a lot of sense, actually. That's interesting. And that's a neurological thing then?

Well, all creatures, all genders, our brain was developed millions of years ago and remains today. It has one major purpose. Our brain has one task and one task only, and that's our survival, to keep us safe and be sure we survive. So we all have that, but we have, because we have been raised differently, men tend to be more risk-oriented. Women tend to be more safety-oriented.

Hmm, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. I want to lead into something else I was really personally impressed by. When I did a TED Talk and disclosed that I had autism and dyslexia and these things, I was very, very nervous about it. It was really difficult for me to do it. And actually, when it when it got released, I was just panicked. I was afraid everybody was going to go, "Oh, this guy's a." You know, a dip in da da da da da, right? And I was just really freaked out about it. And when I looked into you, I found that you're very open about your past struggles, including a devastating financial struggle due to your husband's gambling addiction, and you lost all your inheritance, right? But then you recovered, and you made an internal shift that made you reach this seven-figure goal that you mentioned earlier. What was the internal shift that happened? Like, what was the actual thing that happened to make that shift?

So I remember when I made my first speech after I wrote my first book called Prince Charming Isn't Coming: How Women Get Smart About Money. And I wrote that, and that was like my coming out book when I talked about what, uh, how ignorant and how negligent I was with money and all things. I was so embarrassed to give that speech. So embarrassed.

I know what it feels like.

I know. I was sure everyone would look at me like, you big loser. But, but I don't know if yours is the same, but what happened to me, what was a turnaround for me is, so I was raised in a wealthy family. My father was the R of H&R Block. And the only advice he ever gave me about money was, don't worry. Which I thought was great advice, Greg. I loved it. I didn't understand money. I just wanted to spend it. And I married a man who was a stockbroker, so he was perfect. But very early in our marriage, I found out he was a compulsive gambler. Oof.

Ouch.

And over the course of our 15-year marriage, I find out many, many, many times a year he was gambling my money, my inheritance away. And here's the insane part. I continued to let him manage the money because I just— it was so intimidating and so terrifying to me. And after, finally, after 15 years, we got a divorce and I decided money is not my My thing. I just do not want to deal with money. Well, I have this theory that if you don't deal with your money, your money will deal with you.

How true is that? Holy moly. Yes.

Holy moly. I got tax bills way over $1 million for back taxes my ex didn't pay for illegal deals he got us in. And my signature was on everything. I did not have anywhere close to $1 million, not even close. My ex had left the country. And my father wouldn't lend me the money.

Oh.

And that's when I knew. That's when I knew I had to get smart. So, I did all the things you're supposed to do. I read the books, I went to classes, I talked to financial advisors. And it's like they were talking Swahili. My eyes would glaze over, my brain would fog up. I just didn't know how I was going to do it. But I really believe that when you have a commitment, like a down to your toes, no holds barred, no backdoor commitment, the universe revolves to help you reach your goal. And I was, at the time, I was a journalist writing for the San Francisco Business Times. And I got hired for a writing project to interview women who were smart with money. And those interviews changed my life. I not only got smart with money, I wrote my first book, Prince Charming Isn't Coming. And suddenly I had this whole new career doing financial education for women.

Yeah.

And I think that is what gave me the courage to talk about my journey because it was by having role models, seeing, interviewing these women and seeing they could do it that gave me the courage and the determination and the belief that I could do it too.

Oh, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. So, in your book, you talk about under-earners, right? So, how they define themselves and this sort of thing. And I wanted to sort of dig into that a little bit and ask, like, what is an under-earner and how do you define an under-earner?

Great. I love that question because I love talking about under-earning because I was one for so long and then I got out of it. And it gets me really excited to inspire others that no one, no one needs to be an under-earner. An under-earner is anyone who earns less than she needs or desires despite her effort to do otherwise. You can make 6 figures and still be an under-earner. And you can make less and not be. I have 3 daughters. One's a stay-at-home mom, but one's a farmer and one's a journalist. Neither one make a lot of money, but they make enough money to meet their needs.

Mm-hmm.

And they're doing what they love that feeds their soul. An under-earner is never, never, Feeds your— under-earning never feeds your soul. It is always a condition of deprivation and not just of money, but of time, of joy, of choices, of freedom, and most of all, self-esteem.

Okay. So, it's not necessarily how much you earn, it's are you getting enough for what you're providing?

Are you getting enough to meet your needs and live a quality life?

Okay. Got it.

Yeah.

That's— If you find yourself saying, God, I wish I made more money, but... Chances are you're an under-earner.

Yeah, I mean, my, uh, my mom was a teacher, and talk about under-earners. Um, you know, she, she was way underpaid for what she did, and as a result, we just grew up really poor, actually, um, with all the kids. So yeah, I get that. And, and so how would somebody that is an under-earner change that for themselves? Like, what would they do to— once they recognize, I'm an under-earner, How do you dig your way out of that?

Well, in my book, Overcoming Under-Earning, I have 5 steps to overcome under-earning. The first step is tell the truth. Tell the truth about what's not working because I noticed in interviewing women who were formerly under-earners but became high earners, It all started by facing a financial challenge or any challenge, telling the truth about what's not working. And not having to have, not having to have a solution in sight, but it's really important to tell the truth because there's power in truth. And as I think it was, who was it that said, I can't remember his name, but I see it. A problem ignored is a crisis invited. So, you want to tell the truth of what's not working without having to have a solution. The second is to make a commitment, is to declare a commitment, declare that it's time to make more money. That's something you can absolutely commit to without knowing how. You commit. And then, when you commit, 2 things will happen. You will start attracting opportunities or that mostly look like coincidences. And the second thing that will happen is you won't want to take advantage of it. You'll go into resistance, which is always— resistance is a normal, inevitable reaction to change. And the third step is to stretch, to stretch beyond what feels comfortable, To what seems impossible. I ask under-earners, when's the last time you did something you didn't think you could do or were scared to do? And they'd scratch their heads and say, ah, I don't remember. High earners, they laugh and they say, all the time. It's a way of life. There is what I call a high earner slogan. If it's not illegal or immoral, I just say yes. So, the 3rd step is to stretch to do what you're scared to do. And that really is the number one requirement. And the Fourth is to get support. So surround yourself with people who are saying, yes, you can do it. You go for it. To find role models, people who are doing what you want to do, even if you don't know about them, even if you're just reading their biography, is to find support, to find role models. And the fifth step, which is really important, is to respect and appreciate money because just because you Earn a lot doesn't mean you'll keep it. And this is the important— I'm all about helping women create wealth. And wealth does not come from what you earn. It comes from what you do with what you earn.

So what do you mean? Let's dig into that a little bit. When you say wealth doesn't come from what you earn, what— can you dig into that a little bit and unpack that?

I would love to. Wealth doesn't come from what you earn. It comes from what you do with what you earn. It comes from what you keep. And there's 3 rules to— there's what I call the 3 rules of wealth. Because what happens when people start increasing their earnings, they start increasing their spending. The 3 rules of wealth are you spend less, you save more, and you invest wisely. You spend less than you earn, you save more than you need, and you invest wisely in Assets that will grow faster than inflation and taxes can take it away.

Mm-hmm.

So, when people are so focused on earnings, which is important, and I loved Overcoming Under-Earning, but profit and wealth are in 2 different categories. And what I want to see is for people to turn their profits into wealth, to sustain their money for their whole life and the generations All right.

Unfortunately, we have to stop right here, but coming up in the second part of my conversation with bestselling author and wealth coach Barbara Hewson, Barbara talks about the inspiration for her new book, Rewire for Wealth.

As I started reading about neuroscience, I saw that men and women process financial information differently. And one of the big differences is men Men see the market and investing as a challenge and they get excited. Women see investing in the market as a threat and we hold back.

Learn more about the BOSS Business Operating Support System at bossstartupsience.com, or you can reach Gregory Shepard at gregoryshepard.com. This has been a production of Forbes Books.