$1.5 BILLION Blueprint | Austin Zaback on Why You MUST Fail to Scale

No matter how great your mentors are, no matter how many people you have in your corner, you're going to fail, and you're going to fail a lot.

How would you recommend that other people start to scale their business if they're doing good, to become a large enterprise like you are now?

A lot of people think that they want to scale because other people are doing it, you know, and it's the worst way to actually decide if you want to embark on that journey. I've started, I think, 13 or 14 different companies, but seven that are actually making really good money, which means half of the companies that I've started have failed. And people don't see that. You know, people don't see the millions of dollars that I've lost, the unbelievable amount of stress and anxiety. I've. You know, there was years of my life, I didn't do anything. I just grinded. And not everybody actually wants that. They think they do because they've seen the highlight reel of, you know, the other guy or girl driving the Lamborghini or whatever the case might be, and they don't understand what is actually going to be required to achieve that. Right. So I think you have to fail a lot. Right. And that's not what people want to hear, by the way. It's not the sexy answer. Right. Like, people just want to the magic pill. But the reality of it is you're going to fail, you're going to mess it up. You know, like every day I make decisions that backfire at some point. Right. And then you have to, like, recalibrate and figure out, you know, what am I going to do different?

I'm here today with Austin Zavak, who is actually really cool because we're both the same age and we're both from Arizona, and we're both just workaholic hustlers, loving, loving real estate. But he's amazing. He has the number one real estate team in Arizona called Space. They have three locations here in Arizona. He also is the co founder and founder of two other real estate companies, tpz.

KPZ actually turned into Space.

Okay.

That was the rebrand. And then I own one roof.

One roof? Yeah, one roof. So they do 2500 real estate transactions a year, both on the wholesale side and the retail side.

And.

And he's done over a billion and a half in real estate sales. So really excited to learn from you today, sit with you, and really grateful to have just met you through this business and this crazy journey. So thank you.

Yeah. Thank you for having Me. I know you were on my podcast and that one went. Did really well and I'm excited to be here on yours.

Yeah, that actually went viral. A few clips.

We had a couple of good clips.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think still my highest viewed clip is yours in your room.

Maybe we can beat it today.

Yeah, that's great. And then today we're in his studio. He just opened Zback Media and has this awesome media set up here in North Scottsdale. So, yeah, just super proud of you. You're doing.

I appreciate that. Well, the feeling is mutual.

Thank you.

So excited to be here and provide a bunch of value. Hopefully people watching stay to the very end.

Yeah, me too. But yeah, so first I want to dive into your story. I know we talked about mine last time when you interviewed me, but want to hear what drove you to be so successful at such a young age as well. Because most people don't start to, like, get that bug, I guess, or really figure things out until, like, I don't know, their 40s. Yeah, but we were just 18 years old, real estate license and have a very similar path. I went more into commercial, you went more into wholesale and retail. But, yeah, what. What was your journey to get you to where you are?

Phenomenal question. You know, I mean, growing up, I grew up in a garage, right. I grew up with my grandpa and grandma and Gilbert, native to Arizona. And I think, you know, when you grow up and you come from nothing, I mean, you. And I'm sure you've seen, right, you've interviewed a lot of people like me. The majority of people that achieve massive things in life typically come from nothing, Right. I mean, I would say nine times out of 10, you know, and I think there's something psychologically, when you grow up and you don't have much that makes you want to have a lot when you get older, to give to your kids, to change your family name, whatever that might be. Right. I just think there's an unconscious thing that actually happens in your brain when you come from nothing. Right. And when people tell you can't do something or whatever the case might be. So I just remember being a kid and I wanted to make a lot of money. I mean, like, if you'd have asked me When I was 10 years old, what do you want to do when you grow up? I would have just said, you know, I want to be a billionaire. Right. Like, I just want to make a lot of money. And I think that came from me just wanting to prove the world wrong. Right. And, yeah, you know, to your point, I got into real estate literally the day I turned 18. And you know, I got into wholesaling. And the only reason I got into wholesaling is because I saw an ad. Cody Sperber, who eventually became my partner. No longer my partner anymore, good buddies of mine. But, you know, he was standing in front of the bank driving a Lamborghini, which I eventually bought that same Lamborghini from him. And he was talking about making money in real estate with no money down, no license, no nothing, you know, And I'm like, I could do that, you know, And I paid him ten grand or whatever I paid him to mentor me at the time. And that was, that was that, you know, I got into wholesale and then wholesale eventually led to me becoming an agent, and then me becoming an agent led to me starting a team. And then, you know, eventually I, you know, got to kind of where I am today. And now we're the. You know, Jamil. Jamil might not like me for saying it, but I think. I think we might be number one in the nation. But I love Jamil. And you know, and they obviously went the franchise route, right? So I'm not comparing to the 180 franchises or however many franchises they have, but their corporate store, compared to what you would consider maybe my corporate store. I think. I think we might be beating them. But anyways, we'll save that for another day.

That's awesome. And yeah, two different parallels. Both, both ballers, both doing love, Jamil things.

Amazing human being.

Oh, I love him so much. Well, that's frickin awesome. And so what would you say is like the biggest mistake that people make when they're getting into the real estate business, or really any sales business for that matter.

You know, people make a lot of them. I think though, that the biggest mistake that I see people make, well, when they're. I guess there's a couple, right? So one of them is that I see people who get into the real estate industry as a whole and they're on an island, right? Like they don't actually get around people that have what they want, you know, so take an agent for an example, right? You know, an agent will go, and they'll get their license and they'll go through school, which is like 90 hours in Arizona. It's nothing, right? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, it takes 5,000 hours if you want to cut somebody's hair, if you want to become a hairstylist, and 90 hours and you can sell $100 million piece of real estate, right? So you go through school and you don't really learn how to sell real estate, right? You learn a bunch of stuff not to do. Pretty much like, you learn kind of like a bunch of this stuff that, you know, 99% of it you're never going to use. And so all of a sudden, here you are, you're a licensed agent, and you go to, like, a broker fair, and you, like, pick a random brokerage, you know, and you join Keller Williams or Russ Lyon, Sotheby's or wherever you go, and nobody's actually helping you. Like, you don't know what to do. You have zero idea what to do. Right. And you know the statistics. I mean, 87% of realtors fail. Right? I'm sure it's the same with wholesalers. Commercial real estate might even be higher. And it's just like, you have to get around people that have what you want. You need a mentor. You need to join a good team or a good brokerage, or go hire a mentor, Join a mastermind. I mean, you're huge in the mastermind world. I'm actually jealous of that. I need to get involved in more masterminds. But, you know, it's like, if you're not around people that have what you want, that are helping you get to where they got, how are you going to get there? Right? Like, you need a roadmap. And I think people make that mistake in a big way. The only other mistake I think is people just don't stick it out. You know, you look at the industry that we're in, Hannah, and, like, it takes time, right? Like, we're in this industry we're not in. We don't trade stocks. Although I do a little bit of that on the side. It's not what I do. Right. We don't trade bitcoin. I own bitcoin. But, like, there's these things in life that I think you can do quicker. And real estate is not a quick game. You know, like, commercial is even a longer game. I mean, I. You know, I haven't done very much commercial. I've seen you do it. I've seen a lot of other people do it. Um, from what I. From what I've heard and what I can tell, you know, commercial. I mean, one deal could take two years to get to the finish line, you know, so if you don't have the patience and. And the ability and the stamina to delay that gratification, then you're not going to make it.

Yeah. You know, Yeah, I agree. Relentless. Being relentless and just having that drive and it is, it is really tough. And it is one thing. One of my biggest regrets is not investing in mentors or that type of the higher ticket education sooner because I was an island and it took me longer to get that momentum. And it wasn't as. It just wasn't fun. It was super stressful. I had no guidance. I was at, you know, KW with no training. Like the trainer hasn't sold real estate in 50 years, you know, type thing. Not nothing wrong with them, but just that that's normal. Most brokerages is pretty independent, but I wish I would have done like the high, you know, $10,000 to Cody Sperber and really learned that business or gone under the wing of a commercial broker. And I was always getting started. I had, I didn't have $10,000. And when I did make my first enough money, my first sale was 36,000. I use that immediately to invest into real estate, which.

Awesome.

I don't know if that was good or bad, but I think it worked.

Out well for you.

Yeah, but I mean now I spend so much money on masterminds and, and conferences and seminars. But it's absolutely amazing and it's definitely fun having dinner with, you know, for sure.

And look at your network, you know, I mean, the people that you get to be around. You know, obviously I follow you and I've watched your journey and, and, and you're involved in more masterminds even than I am. I mean I, I'm in a lot of the rooms and stuff, but you know, the last couple years have been a grind, you know, I mean, I've just been head down going a million miles an hour. Like I, I barely come up for air, you know, and I think there's a time and a place obviously for that, but I'd love to get involved in, you know, whether it be collective genius or genius network or, or. I know you were hanging out with Joe Polish I think the other day. He's a really, you know, good dude from what I can tell. I've read his book. I think, I think he has a couple books, but I read the most recent one that he.

What's in it for Them?

Yep. Phenomenal book. Yeah. And, but no, I agree, you know, you have to get out there and we're in, you know, we're in an industry where it isn't about what you know, rather who you know. Right. And it's most industries, but real estate in particular, I think. I mean, you know, if you're not around the right people, you're just not going to make it. You know, we even look and I know, I'm sure in a little while we'll talk about Donald Trump. But you know, way before he was ever in the political game, I admired Donald Trump just from a real estate standpoint. Right. Like what he had built in the game of real estate and one of the most difficult markets in the country, New York City of all markets, to do some of the things that he did. And you read the stories of the skating rink and all these different things that other people couldn't figure out how to do. You know, the government, the city of New York couldn't figure any of this stuff out. And Donald Trump comes in and builds a skyscraper or builds the ice skating rink or whatever it might be, and it's just admirable. But again, I look at it and I think to myself, who was he getting his advice from? I guarantee you he had people in his phone book he might not talk about it, that, you know, they all collaborated on different ideas and stuff like that.

Yeah, you know, for sure.

Yeah.

It's it, it takes a team. And even if even as we say, like we're self made, meaning we didn't have parents or college funds or true, you know, mentors or guidance, we really had to grind some more. It's never self made. Like it takes a whole team. And you learn everything from every, every lesson you do, every person you interact with, with every client you have. And it really is a collective whole for everything. And success is just a relationship business in general. So it is. So how did you go from getting your real estate license at 18 to starting building and scaling operations to now be doing 2500 deals a year? Like that's some serious volume. And you have multiple office locations. I know your overhead isn't cheap. You've got how many employees?

Well, between all the different companies, we have over 300.

Yeah. So like. And you're 28 years old.

I'm 29.

20. Oh, when was your birthday?

May.

Okay.

I'm April, so. Okay, yeah, I'll be, I'm a Gemini. So you know what they say about people like me? I guess.

Yeah. I'm Aries. So I'm like one notch down from your crazy, but okay, so 29 and. Yeah. So what, what did that process look like for you? Because I know in entrepreneurship, especially in sales, it's so easy to be that solopreneur where you're wearing every hat. Right. Especially getting started. It's like your operations, your sales, your marketing, your everything. And what, like, I guess, what was that process for you? And how would you recommend that other people start to scale their business? If they're doing good, maybe they're making 100, 200,000 a year, whatever, but they're ready to, like, start building a team and scaling to become a large enterprise like you are now.

Yeah. First thing I'd say is, you know, make sure you actually want to scale. Right. I mean, like, I think a lot of people think that they want to scale because other people are doing it, you know, and it's the worst way to actually decide if you want to embark on that journey. It is the most difficult journey that you could possibly ever embark on. I really believe that there's nothing more difficult than scaling companies to. To, you know, where. And I'm a nobody in the. In the world that we live in at the end of the day, I mean, I. You know, obviously there's levels to the game, right? But I think a lot of people think that they want to scale. You know, there's been times in my life where I've thought to myself, man, life would really be simple. I could just go make a half million bucks a year, have no overhead, no employees, no nothing. I could just hang out on the beach, you know, and live my life. Right. And instead, you know, I've chose a different path. Right. Which requires an entirely different, you know, set of problems that come with that. Right. And so there's a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety, a lot of sleepless. I mean, it's all I think about. It's all I do, you know, almost all the time. Right. I mean, and not everybody actually wants that. They think they do because they've seen the highlight reel of, you know, the other guy or girl driving the Lamborghini or whatever the case might be, and they don't understand what is actually gonna be required to achieve that. Right? So once you've decided that you do wanna do that, then you'll embark on it. And no matter how great your mentors are, no matter how many people you have in your corner, you're gonna fail. And you're gonna fail a lot. You know, I mean, I've failed. I've started, I think, 13 or 14 different companies. I currently own really seven. I mean, nine technically, but seven that are actually making really good money, which means half of the companies that I've started have failed. Right. And people don't see that. You know, people don't see the millions of dollars that I've lost. The unbelievable amount of stress and anxiety. You know, there was years of my life, I didn't go to the gym. I didn't work out. I didn't. I blocked my family's phone numbers. I didn't talk to my family. I didn't go to birthday parties. I didn't do anything. I just grinded, you know? So I think you have to fail a lot, right? And that's not what people want to hear, by the way. It's not the sexy answer, right? Like, people just want the magic pill. But the reality of it is you're gonna fail. You're gonna mess it up. You know, like, every day I make decisions that backfire at some point, right? And then you have to, like, recalibrate and figure out, you know, what am I gonna do different, you know, or whatever. And so. But, you know, the last thing I'll say is people, right? Like, if you can't figure out how to delegate as an entrepreneur, you're never gonna make it. You know, Like, I see entrepreneurs every day that can't figure out how to delegate. It's like this mental block that they have where they think that they're better at everything. And the reality of it is they're right, but they can't do everything. So it doesn't matter if you're better at everything. You can't do everything and get huge, right? And so I got really good at delegating early on to a point where. Probably even to a fault where I'll put the ball in somebody else's court and I won't even follow up with them, like, for a week, two weeks, three weeks, right? And then I'll let them go make the mistake. I'll. I could watch somebody that I gave something to screw it up right in front of me, and I won't say anything. Like, I'm not going to micromanage them. Like, they can mess it up, and then we can sit down and we can talk about how they can get better, right? But I want to empower people to embark on their own journey within the different companies that I'm building, you know, and now we're at a point where, you know, we just took space to California, Texas, and Florida. So we're going to be the first team ever to scale completely nationwide, right? We're not going to become a brokerage, which has never been done. I mean, you know, any team leader tries to scale nationwide, one of two things happens. They fail, or they become a brokerage and they Say we're not going to run a team, we're going to run a brokerage. Right. So we're doing that. You know. And in order to do that, I mean I would argue that out of 100 things that happen on a daily basis, 99 I'm not even aware of. Like I'm not even involved anymore in the decisions of 99 out of 100 problems that come up. Right. Like it's just getting handled while we're in here. I'm sure there's 15 fires that, that are going on right now. And I'm. Don't come to me, you know, figure it out. I can't solve every problem. Right. And you have to get to that point where you delegate and you delegate and you delegate. And of course you have to have great people to delegate to. You know. And I think the last thing I'll say is just when it comes to great people, it isn't about their resume. I used to tell people don't hire based off of somebody's resume. A lot of times people will come in, they'll apply for a high level job in one of my companies. I throw the resume in the garbage can. I could care less. I don't care where they came from or what they did. Where's your heart? What type of person are you? What do you do on the weekend? What do you do for fun? What's your family life like? Are you in Old Town every weekend or are you at church? Right. I can take somebody with a good heart and good intentions, somebody that really is a good human being and teach them the actual skill itself. Way easier than I can take somebody who has the skill. But they're a terrible culture fit.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah. It's like everybody is hired for hard skills, the technical stuff, and they're fired for What? Soft skills 100 and I do the same thing. It's all about the reverse. It's like I want to hire for soft skills. Who are you as a person? How's your emotional intelligence? How is your connection to yourself and to other people? How are your relationships? What's your integrity? Like, what are you doing on the weekends for fun? And that is what those are. What's hard to find. Technical skills are cheap.

You know, diamond doesn't.

Yeah. Dozen. But good, genuine, loyal people who are not out to. You know. It's difficult. It's difficult because you hire too much of entrepreneur spirit. Then they just take. They just learn your stuff and, and move on. Which is fine with me. I like to. I Like, to breed entrepreneurs. And I'm happy to. I'm an abundance mindset and I'm happy to, like, I had an agent come over and they wanted to start their own brokerage and I helped them start their own brokerage. Like, I. There's. That doesn't bother me. And then versus when I left my old brokerage, they sent me a cease and desist letter telling me not to ever hire one of their agents. I'm like, okay, not someone I would hire, you know. But no, I think that's all really great. And what, what are some of the tactical steps to scaling when let's say you maybe are just a team of one or three, maybe it's you and an assistant or you have a couple small employees. But how do you really like, did you take on partners? Did you just save up a bunch of capital and then start hiring from the top down? Did you start hiring from the bottom up, like assistant? And then, you know, each role as you go up and start delegating your, your roles, your personal responsibilities, or what did that look like for you? And would you do anything different?

Yeah. Great. Phenomenal question. So on the retail side, you know, we're, like you said, we're the number one retail team in the state. Soon I think we'll be the number one in the nation. I don't think I know we're going to do it, you know, when on the retail side, I mean, it really comes down. The only reason that an agent would join a team is really only a couple of reasons, right? Like, they're either coming to your team because they want leads, okay? They want Zillow, they want Veterans United, they want whatever, right? And they can't get it on their own, okay? So therefore they have to join a team, right? And so that's probably the main reason an agent will join a team, right? So imagine if you're a team, you have three agents on your team. You're trying to scale to 30 or 300, and you don't provide leads, right? Well, it's gonna be really hard to recruit, you know, And I see a lot of teams that try to do that, right? They're like, yeah, but we have a transaction coordinator and we have an office and we have great culture and training. It's like, it's not enough. It's just not enough, right? A lot of people provide, provide that, you know. So I think leads is the number one thing. Like if you're a team leader in America right now and you want to scale your team, go Create lead generation opportunities for potential agents that are doing your team. Because it makes recruiting a thousand times easier, right? Because I can. I mean, literally, like, I'll give you an example. I'm launching in Texas right now, okay? And we're launching in Houston, Dallas, and a little city called Beaumont. And we are the maybe number one or number two team in the state of Arizona on Zillow, okay? It's like George Lawton, you got Jason Mitchell, then you have us, and we're all three kind of neck and neck, right? Well, we have such a good relationship with Zillow that they're like, hey, if you start a team in Houston and Dallas, we'll turn on Zillow out there. Just like, really big deal. Because Zillow is a total monopoly. And, you know, very few people can just get on Zillow. I mean, it's like, you're either on it or you're not on it, right? And to even have that opportunity is huge. So for me, it's literally as simple as making a post and saying, hey, do you want Zillow in Texas? And then I've got a hundred people that are like, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me. Right? So recruiting's easy, you know? Like, I don't actually really have to do that much right now. Obviously, we have great systems and processes, and we have transaction coordination, and we have all of that. And that's all icing on the cake, you know? But so to answer your question, when you're scaling a retail team, you got to get lead generation dialed in, right? You could do everything else first, and you're going to, you know, really struggle, in my opinion, right? So start with lead generation. In my opinion, you could have bad TC department, you could have bad marketing, you could have bad everything. If you're giving your agents actual leads, they'll join your team. And they'll stay on your team, by the way, too, because that's another huge problem in the retail game is people join and they leave. They join, leave, right? The attrition is terrible, you know, So I think I would do that. And then on top of that, I mean, yeah, you know, you do need to build the other stuff, right? So get a good TC department. You know, get the thing. Make a list of the things that the best teams in the game have and are offering, and then just go match it. I mean, you really don't have to reinvent the wheel, right? It's like, how do you. You just gotta be, like, 1% better than that guy over there. Right. And then you can build a massive team, you know?

Yeah. And thank you. I think that's. That's great advice. It's like Alex Hermosi says, irresistible offer is way better than a logical argument or whatever.

Yeah.

But so I know we just passed the election, and I know you and I were both at the Trump rally, and I was with Robert Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy Jr. And Tucker Carlson and Kelly Means and all those guys last week through genius network and 100k group. But a lot of my clients for the past six to 12 months were like, I'm on the sidelines. I'm going to wait to the election. I'm going to wait to the election. There's been a lot of uncertainty in the market, both on the commercial and residential side. And I think economically as a whole, I know none of us have a crystal ball, but how do you think the outcome of this election is, may or may not impact the real estate market in the economy at whole.

Yeah, really great question, you know, and I'm not an economist, but what I will say is let's just take a look at the market's reaction to Donald Trump winning. Okay. You know, within a week, right? Bitcoin hit 93,000 per bitcoin. Okay. Unprecedented levels. And I think it's going to go way higher than that in 2025. 150 to 200 is my prediction on bitcoin. This cycle could be more. Right. I think it's honestly a conservative prediction. A lot of people think it'll hit 400 grand this cycle. I don't think it'll do that much. But so, I mean, Trump wins, bitcoin skyrockets, the stock market, the nasdaq, you know, everything, right? So, you know, the whole world wants world peace in a matter of a week. I mean, you know, China saying, we want peaceful coexistence. You have, you know, Putin saying, hey, let's figure out how to end the war. You have, you know, so the market reacted in a very positive way to Donald Trump winning the election. Now, doesn't matter what you like, doesn't matter how you feel. Anybody who might be watching. What matters is that if we're just talking about, you know, the economy, well, clearly the economy is better off under a Donald Trump administration. I mean, there's no arguing that. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, Kamala's campaign, as I'm sure you've seen, spent a billion dollars in the election. Right. And running and, like, 100 days, by the way, which is unbelievable. And she came out 20 million in debt. She's 20 or 30 million dollars in debt. Donald Trump spent 400 million and had 30 million leftover or something like that. Don't quote me on that. You know, so the typical Democrat versus the typical Republican, you know, look, I think we needed a Republican candidate, obviously Donald Trump to come in to fix the economy, right? Letting in all of the, the, you know, migrants and all of these things were going to lead to probably, I mean, Elon Musk would say a Great Depression style, you know, market collapse. I mean, we weren't heading in a good direction right now. I think that it'll be really good. You know, it's interesting too, right, Because a lot we'll have to see how like the tariffs all play out and everything all plays out and interest rates and everything like that. I don't necessarily think that the real estate market in particular is going to do what it did during COVID Right. I think that we're just going to, it's just going to be a healthy market. It's just kind of my prediction. I don't think that we're going to have any major pullback. I don't think that we're going to have any major market crash in the next, you know, three to five years. And I also don't think that we're going to have, you know, 40% appreciation a year like we did during COVID or whatever we had. You know, I think it'll be somewhere in the middle, right. I think that we'll have, you know, your Standard, you know, 5% a year or whatever it might be. And I think the market will be really good. And I think that, you know, buyers are going to continue to buy now that the election's over, people are going to settle down. Anybody like, to your point that was sitting on the sideline, I think now they're looking at their, at their significant other and they're saying, okay, let's go ahead and buy, right? And I think anybody who is sitting on the sideline in terms of selling, they're about ready to sell because interest rates are coming down a little bit to the point where they're going to be able to re buy back into the market because that's why nobody was selling, because all these people had, you know, 300, $400,000 with equity and they didn't want to sell at a 3% interest rate to go buy at a 7% rate. So it was a weird market. We just came out of, you know, unlike anything I think we've ever seen. But hopefully that answers your question. I just. I think it'll be a good market. And, you know, I think that the. The only thing I'll add is we'll have to really see how the NAR thing plays out. I'd love to really kind of, you know, see how that goes. I'll tell you that we have quite a bit of data. Cause we do run the number one team in Arizona, so we do a lot of deals. When the NAR finally rolled out the commission buyer broker stuff, our average commission on our team went up.

Wow.

So, you know, we went from. I think our average is like 2.33. And our average went to like 2.43.

Nice.

Within like 90 days.

So, yeah, I think everything in life is just. It's just an adjustment, right. There's always an overreaction, and then everything kind of settles back somewhere close to normal. But you don't want those massive swings because it's never good. You don't want anything to charge up or charge down because there's always a big slingshot, you know, slingshot back to that. But. Awesome. Well, I know we're running out of time here, but last question. What advice would you give to your younger self if you had to go back and do it all over again?

Great question. You know, I think I would probably tell myself at this point to enjoy the journey a little bit. You know, I think a lot of times I have a tendency to not enjoy the journey at all. You know, like, I'll achieve something, and within a minute and a half, I'm. I'm like, over it, you know, like. And it's a blessing and a curse, right? It's what keeps you going. You know, of course, it's probably the reason that I am where I am, but at the same time, if you don't enjoy the journey, I mean, look, at the end of the day, like, we could just be gone tomorrow. Like, I could just not wake up tomorrow. Right. And if that were to happen, you know, did I really enjoy every moment or was I just always focused on the next achievement? Right. And so I think I'm trying, as I get a little bit older, to enjoy the journey a little bit more, slow down, take it all in and just like, be in the moment more, you know, like, you have a tendency, I think, entrepreneurs in general, I'm sure you're. You're similar where we live in the future, right? Like, so much so that you don't even sometimes acknowledge that you're Even here and now. Right. It's like you've already lived. It's like this weird thing where I've already been here, I've already done this, I'm living 10 years from now. Right. But I don't think it's actually beneficial long term. I think that the people that do that regret that. I've talked to a lot of people that are way older than us. I'm sure you have, too. And I think that when you look at these older wealthy people, a lot of men and women that get old and they're wealthy, and you know, all old wealthy people want is to go back in time. Like, no old wealthy person says, I want to make more money. I mean, like, you get to a certain point when you're 80 years old and you're lying on your deathbed, you could be worth billions of dollars. They don't want another billion. They want to be 25 again. Right. And why is that? Because I think they want to go back and enjoy and cherish the moments that they had when they were 25. Right. Being able to do things that only people our age can do. Right. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, the older that we get, the more, you know, burdens that we have and things that we have to deal with, the less we're able to enjoy life and have fun. So I think that would probably be. Be it, you know, work hard, grind hard, but live everyday. Legacy last that.

And that's so true. And I've been on this. This healing journey, Right. Because that was happening to me. And have you read the book Relentless?

I have, yeah.

Yeah.

Phenomenal book.

So good. Tim Grover. And I remember reading that book at 18 years old, and I. That was the first time I felt like anybody understood me or that I was like anybody else. And it was basically the concept of super overachievers and just the best at mastery and whatever they're doing in their life, as soon as they accomplish something, they get this little high and they usually celebrate it on their own. Like, I was in my car when I got that first check. And, um, and then it's that dopamine is pretty quickly followed by anxiety, fear, like compulsiveness, like, what do I have to do next? Now I have to do bigger. Now I have to hire more. Now I have to make more. Now I have to prove myself more. And then a lot of us end up just living in a state of disconnection and being addicted almost to that little hit of dopamine that we get from a very difficult journey to. To even hit that success. And I realized after doing that so many times, I'm like, this is a miserable way to live.

Yeah.

And I love. Don't get me wrong, I love making money. I love the freedom that it brings. But the whole point is to bring freedom.

Right.

And if you're not in freedom and if you're a slave to your business or your mind and you're just disconnected and in this state of fight or flight all the time, then really, what is the point of it? And then you die, never having lived. And so the truth. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I've been working on is like, you know what? Just don't worry so much about the outcome. We're in a world where everything's measured. What gets measured, what gets improved. You know, metric this, metric that, system this. Like, everything is so macros, meal prep, this, that, and it's so structured and rigid. Rigid. And we're always just gone. We're disconnected and we're not here. And it's. Yeah. And what I've. It's actually caused me to have disorders like eating disorders and anxiety disorders and depression and a lot of these disorders. And my coach, I'm starting to unravel all that and reconnect and work through a lot of that. Like, what is the. The real intention behind my actions and my desires? And honestly, having less structure, especially like for me around food and not being so. Like, this is my goal in business and being so. Because when we set a goal, we obsess over that goal. Right. And so just being like, you know what? I'm going to live with intention and integrity and with joy and in a state of flow. And when I get knocked out of a state of flow, I'm going to put myself back in my body. I'm going to reset, I'm going to meditate, I'm going to slow down and get myself back in a state of flow where I'm actually enjoying my life and I'm here and I'm present and not so focused on the obsessive compulsive goal that's only going to give you a quick hit and then you're going to want to make a bigger goal.

It's the truth. Yeah. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, I went to Joe Dispenza, I did the advanced retreat, I did the Hoffman process. You know, I put myself through a ton of therapy. I've been to a ton of seminars. I've been to. I'VE been to Date with Destiny. I've been, you know, just to try to figure out what you just said, right? Like, try to figure out how do I live present in the moment, you know, and why am I the way that I am, you know, and like, why do I do the things that I do? You know? And it's. I think everybody has to go on that self exploration of like, who the hell even am I and why the hell am I even here and what am I doing here and what is it all for, you know, because, you know, you can make a lot of money. I did that at a very young age. I mean, I, I bought my first Lamborghini when I was 21 years old, you know, and I, I lived in the cityscape penthouse. I lived in the west six penthouse. I lived in Optima Sonoran Village. I've lived in Optima Kierland. I've, you know, like, and then you get to this point, I've traveled the world, I've done the cool crap and you're kind of empty. You're like, what the hell am I doing? I went and partied in Old Town and had a table three nights a week. I mean, I've done that. Then you get to this point where you're like, but wait a minute, what the hell are we doing here? And that's where you go on that kind of self exploration of figuring it out. And then where it led me was like, okay, I'm here for other people. I'm actually not here for me at all, you know, but how do I, how do I show up for other people? Well, I got to take care of me. Okay? Then you start peeling, peeling it back, right?

Yeah, yeah. And what has been the biggest, I guess what's been the most beneficial for you to reconnect yourself and slow down and like, truly enjoy the present moment. Have you kind of started to master that or at least the practice of recognizing and pulling yourself back? Or are you still struggling a lot with that anxiety and kind of that next, next, next, next mentality?

I totally still struggle with it. Right. I'd be a liar if I said that I didn't. You know, I have to disconnect from all electronics. So like, for me, you know, it might be sitting in the sauna, right? I love the sauna. It's like my number one thing that I love to do. You know, I do it almost every day. And you know, when I go in there, I'm not going in there with a phone. I'm not going in There with, you know, anything, right? I'm just going in there. It's just me, 200 degrees Fahrenheit. And for me, a great view because I'm on the 13th floor of the Optima, you know, so. But I love that, you know, and I love the cold plunge and these different things that I do. Help me take a step back, right? For me, you know, when I. Like when I wake up in the morning, I don't look at my phone, you know, I'm not looking at my email, I'm not looking at my phone. You know, I just. I wake up, I might read a little bit. I might just hang out. I might just sit there and do nothing. Like, if you looked at me, you'd be like, what are you doing? It's like, nothing at all. I'm just sitting. I'm just hanging out, right? I'm just, like, thinking I'm in my thoughts, you know, whatever that might be, right? So, you know, I. I'm still trying to figure it out myself. You know, I've tried meditating a lot. Meditation will work for me sometimes. It doesn't always work. Sometimes I try to meditate and I can't freaking do it, you know, Other times I meditate and I feel like I. It was. It went good, you know, but again, it goes back to, like. It's hard, you know, when you're wired this way, where, like, even when I meditate, I'm, like, rating myself on, like, how I did. It's like, it was not a successful meditation, right? But then you go to Joe Dispenza and he's like, doesn't it. That's not even a real thing. He's like, what do you mean? He's like, you just meditated. It doesn't matter how it went. Like, you did it. Like, you sat there and you fricking did it, right? And you have. I'm trying to get better at that, you know, not holding myself to such a high standard. Because, like, somebody said this to me one time. They're like, austin, if you held other people to the standard that you held yourself to, they would all hate you. Like, you wouldn't have any loved ones or any friends or any. Anybody, right? He's like, that is how bad it is. Like, you hold yourself to such a high standard that, like, you would never hold anybody else to that standard ever in a million years. Like, you wouldn't even consider it. So why do you do it to yourself if you wouldn't do it to somebody else? Why do you do it to you, you know, and that really got me thinking a while back, and so. But I'm still navigating it, you know, at the end of the day. Yeah.

Yeah, I do now. Just a short guided meditation right when I wake up. When your subconscious is the most pliable.

Yeah.

And it's just like five to ten minutes, and it's guided. So she's like, inhale, two, three, four, and then relax your toes and relax. And so. But, yeah, some days my brain's off a million times. But I think it's just that observance of being able to start to see your thoughts and be an observer of your thoughts and bring yourself back to your breath. And it's always a challenge. And sometimes, like, I'll. Now I've been doing cold plunges in my pool, and I'll be meditating in my pool while I do that and kill two birds with one stone. But I like that. I. I asked Chat GPT based. This was from a mastermind. They're, like, based on everything that you know about me. What are some of my weaknesses or things that I need to work on? It's pretty cool.

What did it tell you?

Yeah, well, for this person, it knows that I'm on this whole journey of personal development. And it told me that sometimes you take on your personal growth and development as another task to achieve, and it's just like a checkbox for you. Like, you just want to check it. Like, meditate, check. You know, cold punch. Check. Therapy, check. And you're not actually absorbing it or integrating it or sitting with those experiences and really allowing it to sit in and grow because it's just a task list for you, and it's a cheat. It's an achievement box. And I'm like, oh, that's a great.

I'm gonna have to ask. Yeah, Man, I wonder how that even works. I guess it watches all of our content and everything, huh? So it knows us.

Yeah. Well. And I talk to Chad GPT. It's like my best friend. I talk to it all day long. So it knows you give it a lot of information. Yeah. And, yeah, it's crazy. Now you can. Delphi AI is a friend from Genius Network, owns that company. But you can make a whole clone of yourself. Like, talk. It talks in your voice. It looks like you. So people can call it, text it, video chat it, and you can upload every book you've ever done, every video you've ever done, every interview you've ever done, any books that you've read that you believe in that, you've studied, and it'll quote them for you. And people can call in and have full access to you 24 hours a day.

Holy cow.

Yeah. There. You should look at Joe Polish's.

I will.

Yeah.

I'll have to look at that.

It's amazing.

That's pretty cool.

And it's, like, cheap. And people can subscribe to your clone and you can make it a big business model, too, to. Because that's the thing is, like, I feel guilty because people are like, oh, I want to train with you one on one. And I'm like, well, it's $10,000 an hour because I don't have any time. And I know that's not realistic for people, mo. You know, most people to pay, but I don't have time. And as much as I want to, I don't want to. I don't want to charge people. But something like that can give people a more affordable way to access you and access all of your knowledge in a very reasonable, affordable way.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

That's really cool.

It's exciting.

I got to look into that.

It's good.

Yeah. That could be. I feel like that's, like, definitely the future.

Yeah.

Like, no question.

Oh, yeah. And you can even have it be a lifetime one. You could pay for a lifetime membership. So even when you die, it'll be there forever for your.

Dang.

Yeah.

That's super cool.

Yeah.

Okay, I gotta. You gotta, like, send me the link or something.

Yeah, I will. Deli, AI deli.

AI.

Yeah. D, E, L, P, H, I. But, okay, so I. I know I. I cut us off there because I thought we were ending, but what do you think are some, like, actions or habits that people should have in order to become very successful and not just financially? I think that's always our initial drive. Right. Because we can't be happy and fulfilled and spiritual if we can't even make ends meet. And we're working 100 hours a week at McDonald's. But for someone to truly be successful in all areas of their life, what are the key actions or habits that they should build? Or at least that's worked for you?

Yeah, I don't think that. So, okay, so I think that everybody's got their own opinion. I've interviewed Andy Elliott two times on my podcast. He has a very interesting take on the same question. Um, you know, I think that there's, like, five main pillars of life. Right. I think you have, you know, financially, spiritually, emotionally, physically, relationally. Okay. And I don't think you can be. Let's say that each one was ranked on a scale of 1 to 10 at any given times. Like right now, if we were to pull out a whiteboard and I would were to say, hannah, you know, we're going to list these out. Financially, spiritually, emotionally, physically, relationally, right? Where are you at financially? You know, how much money do you have in comparison to, you know, whatever your goal is or whatever? Are you a 10 out of 10? Where are you at financially? Where are you at relationally? You know, how do your relationships look? You know, your friends, your family, your significant other. Right. Whatever that might look like. Where are you at on a scale of 1 to 10? And then we go down the line. I don't think it's actually possible to be a 10 in all areas at the same time. I just don't think it's possible. Right. I think that there will be seasons of life where you're at nine or an eight. And financially and relationally you're three, right? Spiritually, you're five, you know, whatever, right? And so I think that there's got to be some give and take, right? And I think it's okay. You know, Ed Mylett actually talks about this, too, quite a bit, and I like Ed a lot. You know, I think that you just have to constantly reevaluate and ask yourself, okay, and maybe it's like a quarterly thing that people do, right, where they sit down and they look at each kind of area of their life and they say, okay, where do I rank right now? Like, how am I doing? You know, like, you kind of do an audit, right? And you ask yourself, like, am I okay with that? You know, like if, let's say you have. Your relationships aren't that good, you haven't called any of your friends in a year. You know, you haven't. Your significant other is not happy with you, your family doesn't isn't happy with you right now. It's like, okay, maybe in this next kind of chapter, this next quarter year or whatever, I put a little bit more energy towards that, okay? But that is going to. There's going to be an opportunity cost. Where will that take from? And am I okay with that? Right? And I think you always have to be reevaluating and looking at that, you know, So I think that people have to do that and understand that. And I think for me, for a very long time, you know, I was just. I gave all my energy into the financial bucket, right? It was like, I just want to Make a lot of money. Like, it's all I cared about for a long time, you know. And then eventually I got into like spiritual in a big way, right? I, I went to multiple mission trips and I started to go to like Nicaragua and you know, different places and like build houses for people and like do that whole thing. And so there's always a give and a take, right? When I'm doing that, I'm not going to the gym, for example, I guess an easy one to kind of look at, right? When I'm in the middle of tippy talk, tippy top. Managua, Nicaragua. You know, you're not, you're not going to lifetime, right? You're, you know, you're on your, you might be able to do some push ups if you're lucky, right? So, you know, if you were there for a long time, you come back, you're probably going to look yourself in the mirror and be like, gosh dang, I had to get back in the gym, right? But your spiritual is a 10 out of 10 when you're on your airplane back, right? And your fitness is like a three out of 10. You know, at that point in time, seeing you reevaluating you, you kind of move, move it all around. So I think you just gotta do the best that you can. I don't think you can do any better than that. You know, like, how do I fit it all in to the best of my ability and what do I care about in this season of life? Now the last thing I'll say is I actually don't think that it's a bad thing for young people to put financial, the financial bucket on a pedestal, right? Because I think that young people have the ability to sacrifice a lot of the other areas of their life to get to that point, right? And I actually think that everybody's going to go through a season. If you're really a dedicated entrepreneur and you really want to be a high level entrepreneur, you're gonna have to go through a season at some point where you're gonna sacrifice a lot of the other things. Unfortunately, I've never seen it even Andy Elliott, you know, we got it, we. I've interviewed Andy twice. They probably got, I don't know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 million views. Okay? Both times that I interviewed Andy between all of the content, right? And Andy's whole thing is you can have it all, right? And he's like very like aggressive, right? And then in the. But then I'll ask him, I'll say But did you have it all in 2020? Because you tell this story where you came home and your wife hated you. Not hated you, but your wife said, andy, you know, me and the kids have learned to live without you. So you didn't have it all in 2020. You were clearly grinding. And your family, literally, your wife said to you, we've learned to live without you. Right. So now you're saying, you can have it all. Now that you've made the money, you can have it all. So that's what I'm hearing. Right? And so I just think that people have to take a good, hard look at the world and really ask themselves, can you have it all from start to finish? I don't think you can. I think somewhere along the way, something has to give, and then you can have it all. Sure, you can have it all. If you went and you made 10 million or 20 million or 50 million or even a million and you invested the right way. Let's say you're. Zach keeps. And you go and you make a bunch of money. You buy a big portfolio of real estate, right? And you own 80% of the portfolio in cash. Zach can do whatever the hell he.

Wants, but he's still doing another deal.

Which he's crazy for that. He manages his whole portfolio on his own, which I think he's wild as hell for doing that, but he loves it. Whatever. Right. But if he wanted to, he could hire property manager tomorrow, and he could go have every area of his life. He could have it all. He could go to the gym and be healthy as hell. He could get involved in church if he really wanted to. And maybe he already is. I'm just talking out loud here. And he could have his spiritual be a 10 out of 10. He could get in the best relationship in the world because he could give almost all of his time to that. Right. And so he could have all the areas because he got his finances in order. But I guarantee you, when he was building that portfolio, he wasn't a 10 in the other areas. So I forget your initial question, but hopefully that's the.

Yeah, well. Oh, yeah. What habits or actions do people need to be to be successful in all areas of life? Yeah. And I. I agree 100%. I believe you can have it all, too.

Yeah.

And I have this conversation with Robert Kiyosaki because he actually sent me a video. He's like, this is. This is what. Where women get it wrong is they think they can have it all. And I said, I think I can have it All. I think we can have it all, but not all at once.

Not all at one time.

Yeah.

And not from the very beginning. Right. Like you can eventually have it all.

Right.

That's what I think people should say.

Yeah, right? Yeah. But it's a sacrifice. And I spent many years in depression and anxiety and isolation and loneliness. Poor physical health, poor mental health, had no money. I was grinding my ass off, but I didn't have any money. I didn't have any friendships, mentors, guidance, hope, really. I mean, I must add some hope because I'm still here. But. And then, you know, as you start to make more money, I think, I think it's a natural progression, right? It's first, it's like survival. I need more money, I need more money, I need more money. And then eventually you get to this point where, all right, great, I have money. I bought the things. I did, did the things, bought the things, can have the things. I could just date who I want or hook up with who I want. I can travel where I want. I can buy whatever house I want, whatever. Right. But then you still feel that emptiness and you're like, oh, well, my wheel is out of balance. Like in EO we did this balance of life wheel and it was, you know, physical, spiritual, mental, relational, financial and personal or whatever. And it's like, okay, well, I'm a hundred percent on the financial, like you said, but I have nothing else. And then you start to, all right, well, let me bump up my, my relational, my spiritual, my physical. Start going to the gym. You start to free up that time, put the systems in place. But you have to be intentional about doing that because some people, Zach, right. Just get more, more, more, more, and they stay out of balanced their whole life and they don't prioritize those other. So maybe you're a 10 here, but you're a one everywhere else. Where you could at that point, once you have financial free, once you have enough money, you could put it into an interest bearing account and make millions of dollars a year. Like you're fine, you know, and there's no risk in that. You don't have to do that anymore if you don't want to. But that's where you really start to figure out, like, what am I passionate about and how do I be well balanced? Because it isn't fun doing it alone. Like, it's nice to have good friends and a good partner and it's nice to look in the mirror and be proud of your body and not be insecure and it's nice to feel a spiritual connection with a higher power, which I never had until recently when I started doing like psychedelic type therapies and things like that. But yeah, it's definitely an interesting journey. But I think it's a, it's a process. Like you can't, you can't just be this Gandhi from day one when you have $0 in your bank account.

You can't. Well, I mean, at the end of the day, like we. If you live in America, it's a capitalist economy. Costs money to live. I mean, you could go be a Section 8 tenant, I guess, or whatever. You still got to make money. I mean, like, costs money to live, right? So you got to, I. My biggest thing is just if you're young, go all in on the financial right now, like your body can handle it. You can, you can. I mean, as long as you don't do it forever, right? Like you could, you can ultimately push your body for a decade. Like I did it. A lot of people do it. Like I very rarely slept. I did all, you know, I mean, look, I used to go to Old Town and stuff all the time. I put my body through hell, right? And I'm fine and I'll be fine. And I'm sure if I. As long as I spend the next 10 years taking care of my body, right? So I just think if people are young, you probably should go all in on the financial right now because you have your whole life to get your relational crap figured out, to get your health stuff figured out, right? And if you can get the financial right, like you said, I mean, if you go make 10 million bucks and you put it in something that'll give you 10% a year, you're making a million a year for the rest of your life. I mean, you don't need any more money than that. Yeah, I mean, you might want more money than that, but you don't. Nobody needs to make more money than a million a year. I mean, a million a year, you can pretty much do whatever you want, whenever you want with whoever you want.

In my opinion, the only thing that changes really is like a private jet.

Sure.

Like that's it.

You go from flying Emirates to flying a Gulf stream, right? Right. Who cares?

Who cares?

Honestly, I like flying first class Emirates. I'm not gonna lie.

I like being around people. I like to is. I don't know, it's a good. I haven't flown Emirates.

Okay. How was that first guy? Amazing.

Yeah.

Unlimited caviar, unlimited dumpy lay down beds, shower at 30000ft. Yeah. Pretty cool.

Well, I hate caviar and dog Pete, but I know I went on it's the problem though is then you don't want to.

No, you don't. No. It's a terrible thing actually. Yeah. I always tell people, don't ever do that until you can do it more than one time.

Yeah.

Once you do it one time, you're screwed, you know, you really are. It'll mess you up in the head. Yeah, for sure. I, I literally went on a trip. We went Dubai, Thailand, Maldives. And we had like nine airplanes, all Emirates, all freaking. Just unbelievable, right? And then I forgot to book the last leg. Like so when we were flying back from the Maldives, we, we're on as like month long trip, right? And we fly Maldives back to now think we just went on this trip. We flew Emirates the whole time, first class. I mean, unbelievable. And then my, our flight back home was like Maldives to like Houston or something like that, right? And obviously I need to get back to Phoenix. Well, I forgot to book that flight. So the only flight I could book was Frontier. So I go from this crazy trip, right? To getting on Frontier. I thought I was going to die. I mean, I hated my life, you know, I thought the airplane was going to crash. I'm like, the seats don't like go back. Like they don't recline, you know. I'd never flown Frontier before, Right. And I remember getting off that damn plane, I said I will never ever, ever fly that airline ever again.

That's awesome. Well, at least it wasn't spirit. It's one step up.

Step up from that or allegiant. I've heard bad things.

Oh, I did, I did allegiate there. The only direct flight to Wisconsin where my best friend's parents live. And yeah, no, that was, that was terrible.

Yeah. 50% chance you're going to make it there.

Yeah. Yeah. So I want to go back a little bit real quick to real estate. So a lot of people want to become a millionaire in real estate or multimillionaire. What do you think sets somebody apart from selling millions in real estate to selling billions in real estate time.

So I think the only difference, you know, I literally think anybody can do it. I mean, look, I, I grew up in my grandpa and grandma's garage. I have a lisp. I barely went. I did terrible in high school. I didn't go to college, you know, but I never quit. You know, it's the only difference. The only thing that I did differently is I just showed up for 11 years, every single day of my life, seven days a week. And it didn't matter how much money I lost, didn't matter how many people stole from me, lied to me, cheated on me, didn't matter how many people quit on me, how many people walked out on me. It didn't matter how many bad things happened to me. I just never gave up. And I think that if you never give up, you'll make it. You'll. You'll go from selling millions to billions. But you don't go from selling nothing to billions. You gotta go from nothing to millions to billions. And it doesn't work in any other order, Right? Like, there is no elevator to success. Like, you have to take the stairs, and it is one flight at a time, right? And at every ceiling is a new floor. And you just keep on keeping on, you know, and you'll eventually get there. And now, you know, we'll sell at least a billion a year in real estate. You know, I think very soon we'll sell multiple billions a year in real estate. Right? And. And I think it's just time. That's all I think. Yeah, I think anybody can do it. I really believe that.

Relentless.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It's been so great to spend this time with you, and I'm excited to see what the future holds for you.

Thank you very much. I appreciate you having me on.