Clayton Echard shares the TRUTH about being the Bachelor & Overcoming Depression

But I hated him, you know, at least I thought I did. I felt this hate and envy for his existence because it was like he was physically stronger than me. I had two years of life on him. I should be bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, better looking, better with women. Clayton's not smart. And the way he handled this is terrible and blah, blah, blah. And so all these people are talking about how poorly of a job I've done as the Bachelor. Everyone's talking about how stupid I am on tv, live television. They're telling me how dumb I am in my DMs. They're on Reddit telling me how stupid I am. They're on Twitter telling me how. How stupid I am. So I'm getting all this hitting me at once, thousands of messages. I get up, I walk over to this, The. The back door of the house, and I'm staring out the window, and I stare out that window for 30 minutes, and I'm just sitting there thinking, why me? How much easier would it be if I just wasn't here and didn't exist? I. One more thing that I failed at, you know, I got the opportunity of a lifetime and I squashed it. I just ruined it. You know, like, that just goes to show I'm never going. I'll never be good enough. Everything that I touch turns to shit. So, you know, I'm thinking, like, it'd be easier if I just gave up and get in. Threw it all. And so it started like, you know, everyone making fun of me. I was like, wait, people are okay with me being a man and crying? And it actually, like, ended up getting me the role of the Bachelor like this. So it actually benefited me to cry. I was like, so real men can cry? Like, that's not what I, you know, ever. Like, that's not what I hardwired in my rank prior.

Well, awesome. Well, thanks for being on the show today. So for those of you who don't know, I'm sitting here with my friend Clayton Eckerd, who is a formal football player. He was The Bachelor in 2022, season 20.

I told someone recently, I was like, I'm season 28. And I was like, no, that. Nevermind. That's Joey. I don't know what season I have anymore. I forget numbers.

Yeah, and then I think season 18 on the Bachelorrette. Yes. Okay, fair point. So 2021 and 2022. And so you're a national American TV personality, and you're just an awesome person. And for those of you listening, like, Clayton's been Deemed to be one of the most handsome men in America. He's just b. That's what Wikipedia says. That's what Wikipedia says. Oh, wow. It's word for word.

You know that people can edit Wikipedia, right? For all you know, it was me. I'm in there. I'm like, he's the smartest, most intelligent, eligible bachelor. Like, every girl should want it.

People have called Clayton Eggard one of the most handsome men in America.

That must have been my mom when they say peebles, but it's people. That'd be my mom. They must have interviewed her. So, no, I mean, it's. It's funny what I find online. Sometimes I even, like, asked ChatGPT recently. I was like, I. For sure I was doing it for. But I. I was like, is Clayton Eckard a unit? I was like. I was like, look, what could Jet Chat GBT will say about me to my brothers? I was messing with it. And they're like, well, by cleats physical stature, like, he is absolutely defined as a unit. And I just like laughing and I'm like, it's just funny how you can have the Internet, what it pulls from all these places, and it's just ridiculous. So, yeah, I'm handsome to somebody.

I mean, it's pretty effort. You're really handsome.

Well, thank you. I'm not fishing for compliments right now, I swear. I just find it funny that somebody typed that in on Wikipedia. But thank you for.

Yeah, but seriously, I mean, you know, you're. You have it all, right? You're the. To be the bachelor, you have to have some sort of handsomeness to you. And the whole. I'm really excited to talk to you because I know you and I have. You know, I've been fortunate to get to know you behind the scenes a bit. And we both are very open about our struggles with mental health and body dysmorphia and insecurity and self worth and a lot of things that a lot of people on the outside would probably look at somebody like you or somebody like me and be like, what is wrong with you? Like, why are you complaining? And you. You have it all. And your life must be perfect and everything like that. And so I'm really glad that you're open about those things. And you even have a podcast called beyond the COVID that really dives into some of those struggles that you face and that other people face and these challenges that we go through in life. And, you know, the biggest battle being one inside of our head. Right?

So which everybody has in their own degree. To their own degree, which I found. And that's why, yeah, I'm super passionate about my podcast because it's allowing multiple voices to be heard and from all different backgrounds. And so it's been cool because I don't feel, I mean, not a single story has been the same from the next one from every guest that I've had on. I mean, even if they're in the same field, stories are completely different. And I want to, you know, create a culmination of stories that really then can impact everybody that listens to it. So there'll be a story for everyone that somebody can relate to. And you know, that relation is what gives people hope. And that's what I'm after is there is this fallacy that I have everything. And he's, I can't feel bad for him because he's got all these great things going for him. And you know that I've seen that online and that's really extremely minimizing to say, like, oh, he's 6 5, he's a good looking guy, can't really feel bad for him. It's like, what are you saying? If I was a 5 foot 7 guy that was ugly by your standards, that you could feel bad for me? I mean, you're so, you're penalizing me for the attributes that I have. I don't like it. And I think, you know, whether you like, everyone has problems, doesn't matter how good looking you are, it doesn't matter how much money you have at the end of the day. We are creatures that are wired for growth. So our brains will continue to search for something that we don't have, a perceived lack. Like we're, we're meant to grow. And that's why, you know, like, I'm getting a mental health speech tomorrow. And a big part of my talk is about the three stages of existence in my, and I'm sure someone else coined this, I just am like a sponge that picks up all these different viewpoints and then I create my own. But I, you know, recently came to this place where I realized, like, there's three states of consciousness that people are in. Like, well, the first is the unconscious. So I relate that to all times where people are scrolling on their phone, doom scrolling when they're watching TV or a movie or playing video games. It's the state of mind where like you're completely shutting off your brain. You're able to just like sit there and zone out. Right? Like that's the unconscious and I think a lot of people stay in that state. I mean, you look around, people are walking around town, they're at dinners, they're just staring straight at their phones, and there's nothing really happening other than, like, whatever they're looking at. They. On that screen is where all of their attention is going to. Was not really the conscious thought occurring. It's just like your brain's like, oh, dopamine, Dopamine, dopamine. Spike, spike, spike, spike. Feels good, feels good, feels good. But then, like, we feel guilty on the other side of it because it's like you just spent an hour and a half not being conscious. And you know, deep down your subconscious knows that, like, I didn't accomplish anything by just doing this for the last hour and a half. And so there's that unconscious mindset, there's the conscious mindset, and then that subconscious. To me, the subconscious intuition. It's that, you know, can some people say it's God is the higher. It's that voice in your head that's telling you, like, I probably shouldn't be spending all my time being in this unconscious state because we're not meant to be. But yet there's so many distractions around us that place us in that position. And so, yeah, I've done a lot of reflection and healing and trying to understand myself, and the show was a catalyst for that. And now my journey is really just trying to get others to see what's tearing them down and what's actually causing them to be unhappy. And it's. To me, a lot of the unhappiness stems from a place of unconscious thinking. It's like, you're so unhappy because you're not taking the time to step back asking question like, what is making me unhappy? Because there's an answer for it. It's just people aren't. Either they don't know how to ask the right questions, or they just aren't taking the time to ask them. So I find that since I've been asking the questions, I'll become much higher.

And I want to get into the healing journey that you've been on. And I know we've kind of both been on the same similar healing journey and have shared and similar experiences. But to backtrack, you know, where does your insecurity kind of start and begin? And I know we talked a lot about Dabra Mate and how, you know, the first trauma in most people is not feeling seen or protected by one or both of their parents, which a lot of us, I think, can probably relate to. And that sometimes can lead to addictions or, you know, think about even over good addictions that the society makes. You know, society claims to be good, like success or holism or, you know, being a star athlete or all these things that we get rewarded for. Yeah, but when were you always kind of in slate? For me, I was always insecure. I was always not good enough. I was always felt unloved and all those things. Like, when did that start for you? And did you ever, like, how do you kind of look at yourself in the mirror now versus when you were younger, when Kind of pride of that progress.

Yeah. So I started feeling insufficient the second that my middle brother started beating me at every athletic event, which probably put me right around, I want to say, sixth grade, sixth or fifth grade. I remember there was a point when I went to a friend's farm. I lived in Missouri, and he had this farmland, and his family invited us out, and so we stayed the weekend there. And some way, somehow me and my brother got into a wrestling match. And my brother's two years younger than me, and he beat me. And he got up and walked away after he had beaten me. And I ran after him when he walked away, and I hit him in the back of the head because I was embarrassed at the time. I mean, I just was. I lost. But I was so upset that I, like, go and hit this, you know, my brother, who I love, but I hated him, you know, at least I thought I did. I felt this hate and envy for his existence because it was like he was physically stronger than me, he was a better athlete. So I started feeling like, well, I'm just not good enough because I should be better than my brother. I had two years of life on him. I should be bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, better looking, better with women. And my brother is a really accomplished individual. He always has been. And so it started with him, but it wasn't his fault. He just existed, you know, and unfortunately, I didn't like feeling that I was the little brother, even though I was the older brother. So it started there, and then it just progressed where people didn't realize that this perception of not feeling good enough really irked me. And my brother being around bothered me at every corner because he was excelling in life and I was, you know, I had the victim mindset, but I, you know, didn't realize it. I just blamed it on other things. And when I went to high school, well, I guess I would say, like, when I was a junior in high school, my brother comes in as a freshman, and he starts varsity as a freshman. So varsity football. He's starting as a freshman. I was still on JB as a junior at this point, and so now all my teammates are telling me I should quit football and I'm not good enough and I suck. And my. It's embarrassing that my brother, who's two years younger, starting varsity before I ever did. So I'm hearing that meanwhile, he's also, like, always been smooth with women. Like, he's always had confidence, and I never did. So, like, while I was friend zoned by all the girls, I was called big brother. That was my nickname, which I hated. And these girls thought that as endearing. And it was. It was meant to be endearing, but I hated it because I was like, no, I don't want to be your ring brother. I want to date you. And so they friend zone me. I even had girls ever more interested in my brother, you know, when I was like, he was a sophomore and I was a senior. And, like, these girls were more interested in him. And so, like, it bothered me, like, because I was like, there's. It doesn't make. Like, how embarrassing is it that I have a. Like, there's senior women that are more Would rather date my sophomore brother. Although they wouldn't date him because he was too young. But, like, they would even. They rather date him than me. Like, or they would. They saw him, that he was just like, oh, he's just not as awkward as Clayton is. And so I just got so in my head and really, if I'd have just not been overthinking so much. And I thought that. I remember all the messages I would send to girls. Like, I thought I had to make them laugh. Every single thing that I said that came out of my mouth had to be funny. So I would like everything. I would say I tried too hard to be funny, and it was like I needed to just try less. But my brain thought that I had to like somebody somewhere along with someone's like, you want to get a girl like, you make her laugh? I took that to heart. I was like, okay, that means I have to be, like, a comedian. And so I tried to. And I'm not a comedian, so it was. It ended up just coming out, like, came out as awkward and cringy. It was my own damage. Like, I was creating this. All this damage all in my own head. And I was preceding myself to be less than, and I was overthinking and trying too hard, and it was coming across as inauthentic and so I live a large majority of my life as inauthentic individual. I created this then facade when I went to college of this successful collegiate athlete, and I started getting respect, and women started to kind of. Things started changing that dynamic because now I didn't have to say a whole lot. I was just a Division 1 football player, so I didn't have to have game, and I didn't have to make girls laugh. I just had to exist. I mean, girls are like, oh, my gosh, she's a Division 1 football player. And so we were treated like royalty in college. The problem was is that. That, like, I was getting this attention that, you know, for what I had done, but not who I was. And I didn't really have to open my mouth. It was just like, I existed as a football player and that was enough. Like, girls would throw themselves at, you know, collegiate athletes, but it was the wrong kind of attention. So then what happened is, like, then I got cut from, you know, I went to the NFL briefly, got cut very quickly, and then it was like, wait, I don't have a personality because I didn't have to have one. You know, I kind of got away with just, like, my accolades playing football. And so then I go into medical sales, and, you know, that kind of worked where I would like people to ask me and I would tell them what I did. That was my way of feeling important. Well, I'm a medical device. I would say I'm an orthopedic medical device sales representative for Stryke Orthopedics. And I just made the title as long as it was because it was just like, oh, what? Like, I. I would lose a minute, but they'd like, wow, that sounds really important. Yeah, I work with doctors, and I work in the or. You're in the or? Yeah, yeah. Help with surgeries. And it's like I was doing everything in my power to impress people with what I had done, but it was never who I was. I was, like, hiding behind this job title like, that I didn't even, like. I mean, I didn't mind medical sales. Honestly, in hindsight, I didn't mind it. But, like, I was. I. I took the job in the first place because I watched people be like, wow, that's impressive. You work for surgeons. And. And I could tell them I made six figures right out of college. So I'm like, yeah, now I'm. I'm impressive because I make a lot of money, you know, more than all my friends do. I have my own House, I bought a car. You know, all my friends are paying off their loans and they were living with their parents. But then what happened was all my friends caught up to me, so they all started making their money and passing me. And then I wasn't making the most money of all my friends. And so I was like, I have to make more money. That's what's going to solve this problem. And all the while it was like, no, what you keep doing is you keep seeking external validation. Because it goes all the way back to when you and your brother would wrestle each other in the house and you would lose to him, and you started feeling insufficient from competing with your brother. And then you started trying to find all these ways just to, you know, basically fill that void of validation that I took away from myself. You know, I was wanting other people to fill that void. Whether it was people telling me I was great or whether it was, you know, playing a sport and filling and feeling that I was enough. Like, I was trying to fill the void of internal validation with external validation. And I would do it, but it never stopped because those things ended up. And so it's like, what? Football ended. I had this massive chasm of a lack of validation. And so I was like, well, I need to find, you know, more external validation. I didn't even know at the time that I lacked the internal validation. I mean, people would tell me, like, hey, maybe, you know, do you love yourself? And I would just be like, yeah, of course. Yeah. Why would I not? You know, because it was my ego jumping in. But I didn't even know what an ego was. Like, I never. I grew up in a household of three boys, you know, like, including myself, we didn't talk about emotions. So I didn't know about ego. I didn't know about conscious and unconscious and subconscious thinking. And I. All this was for. And mindfulness. And I didn't even really know about anxiety or, like, any of those emotions. In college, I had an ex girlfriend say, I struggle with anxiety. And I said, why do you just not think about it? She's like, what do you mean? I said, just don't think about it. I don't think about it. Like, you can't have anxiety if you don't think about it. Now I'm like, that was the most ignorant statement ever. But I didn't mean any malicious intent by it. I just genuinely was like, I don't have it. And I did have it. I just wouldn't accept the fact, like, my ego basically pushed all those emotions down and was like, oh, I have anxiety. And I was like, yes, you do. You've that discomfort you feel is anxiety, but you just won't give it a name. So it exists. Just because you won't give it a name, it still exists, but the second you give it a name, now it's real. Right? So even though I suppress it, said, you can suppress it all you want, you still feel uncomfortable. So I felt anxiety all along. I just didn't acknowledge it. But then eventually I was like, I am so miserable. I kept piling up all these stresses in my life and I was like, I am so extremely miserable. I don't even know if I want to be here anymore. So that's where I started having the, you know, suicidal ideation. And I had it in seventh grade and. But I was honestly too afraid to do anything. Like, the thought of taking my life scared me a lot. I was like, I'm not, I'm not brave enough to do it. That's what I genuinely thought. So I was like, I'm too afraid to do that. And so. But I had those thoughts and. And I did love my family. And I was like, I don't. I would want to burden them with that. So, you know, I kind of struggle with that on and off. I'd have these thoughts come up for years. Like, not all the time, but they come cycling back in. And yeah, it was just. I just. Just felt like it kept. The pain kept piling up. And then finally I got to a place where I was like, I have to somehow be able to release this. Like, I have to be able to release this stress. Well, the gym was a great stress reliever. So I just hit the gym harder after all these years, you know. But then I was like, I have two hours in the gym. I don't want to do two hours in the gym. So I was like, I want you an hour of the gym. And so I was like, okay, well, I need something to, like, get rid of this. And I realized it was like, you have to start talking about that, you know, you have to start, like, letting this out. Like your, you know, your ego, like your inner, like your intuition wants to get this out, so do it. And I was like, well, how do I do it? And, you know, that's when I started getting exposed to different modalities and such. So where I'm at today, to answer your question in a long winded way, because everything I say is long winded, I'm in a much better spot. I found self love and Self confidence, which I've. I can say I've never had in my life until probably eight months ago. And it's just getting better now because. But it took a. It took a lot to get there. You know, it got harder before it got better. I thought the second that I would dove into mental health and mindfulness, I thought I would just get the better, but in fact it got worse because I was like, wait, what? So there's something called there's anxiety, there's depression, there's angst, there's all these different emotions that I never even like knew how to define them. So then all of a sudden I could define them and I was like, oh my gosh, like, I overwhelmed. I was like, there's so too much, like, there's so much stuff that I'm not aware of, but I'm now becoming aware of and I have no experience with that. So now I have to like commit, you know, full time to trying to understand these emotions and how they impact me and how I respond accordingly. It became a full time job.

Job.

Yeah. And so I guess I, in a way I was blessed with having time after TV to go into therapy and like take some downtime to start to understand myself. But it was a full time job. I mean, I was spending many hours of my day doing the bare minimum to make money and then diving into my mental health and, you know, that's what it took. I wanted to fast track myself to healing. So I basically became a full time therapist for myself, learning as I went. And that was, you know, that's why I can share my stories. But I mean, it's also, it was hard, you know, to self diagnose. And that's when I started getting wise and started, you know, going to therapy, journaling and listening to mental health podcasts every day, one hour a day for an entire year. Because I was like, I don't have the words to explain what I'm feeling, so I need to go figure out where these words exist and like make sense of it. So podcasting Julie. Impactful.

Yeah. My therapist talks about just people need to get it all out. Just like you mentioned it just express themselves. And she actually took me to a rage room in 10B. And we like turn on rage music and just take a baseball bat and bash glasses, scream and yell. As you know, most as, especially as a female, we don't ever scream or yell. It's just, I'm like, we're just fine all the time. And I think, you know, men too.

But men or you're concerned if you start screaming, yelling, you're crazy, right? So, no, I don't want to be look crazy because you probably bought yourself to a height, you know, Like, I want to look professional and I want to seem like I have it all put together. And so problem is, is when you start to focus on that, you don't allow yourself to be human. Like, everybody, you know, has a trigger at some point that causes them to be emotional and get angry or. Or upset. And it's like. But when you're so hyper focused on, I need to be seen as enough. Anything that you feel might do the opposite, you protect against, you hide, you know, so you don't let those emotions. I would not let myself cry for years because I remember the last time I told myself that I would ever cry again in front of people because I was made fun of it. A girl at a party when I was a freshman in high school, I went to a house party and a rock fell on her foot and, like, split it wide over. I cr. Like split her bing tow wide open. She's crying. And I really liked this girl a lot. So I started, like, crying too. Which, yeah, I look back on now and I'm like, people were. I mean, I was made fun of so much for that. All the guys were like, clayton, can I custom your podcast?

Of course.

They're like, clayton, you're such a pussy. Like, it wasn't even your foot. And like, they were making fun like, oh, wah wah. Like, while. Like. And I. But I just felt bad for her. And so, like, I cried because I felt bad for her. I might have been in eighth grade, you know, so I was young and. And so. But then what happened was in that moment, I was crying for My friends were calling me a pussy. And then I was like, hey, like, I'll go with you to the hospital. She's like, no, no, it's okay. Like, she was, like, turned off by me empathizing with her crying. And so in that moment, I felt. I felt so outcasted. And then my friends, like, bullied, you know, not for people that knew me and weren't friends, bullied me or made fun of me for that. That instant, that instance. And, like, talked about it for weeks and months to come. And I. So that was the day that I said, I will never cry in front of people ever again. And I didn't, I think, probably until reality television. Yeah, like, when I went on the Bachelorettes, I got caught up in a moment where I did not anticipate Crying. I was completely off guard. They had these kids come in and say goodbye to me after I had been like, I wasn't given a ropes from the bachelorette. The. The prior day, these kids, like, we had the whole day with these kids. I mean, like, we. We colored with them. We built forts with them. Like, we. And our. The whole point was we were trying to. Like, at the end, the kids were going to choose who their favorite. Favorite guy was to go on a date with the bachelorette. And so I end up winning that and being able to go on the date with the bachelorette, and she didn't give me a rose. And so I was. I was sent home, but I was the next. Before I was sent home, the kids came and met me, like, in my hotel and like, hey, we wrote you a card, and we want, you know, it's a. Read it, but don't read it until we leave. And I was like, okay. And so they leave, and, you know, the producer's like, okay, you could read it now. You know, they get the cameras in position. They're like, all right, you can read it. And so I was like, okay. So I open it up, and the first part of it was written by the boy, and he was like, I guess Michelle. Oh, that was her name. That's right. I guess Michelle just doesn't like big muscles, and that's why she said, yo. So I laugh, and I'm like, oh, that's boring. And so then it gets to the sister. So they're a brother sister. And the girl, she starts writing, and she's like, I really enjoyed spending time with you yesterday. I feel like you're the older brother that I don't have, but wish that I did have because you were just so awesome. And I. I really enjoyed spending time with you. And as I was reading it, I was reading it, I don't have a sister. So I started reading it through the lens of, like, this is what it would feel like if I had a younger sister writing a card to me. And it was just so heartfelt, and it was so unexpected to be reading this and put myself in that position of, like, the big brother that I just lost her. I started crying my eyes out because I realized I'll never be. I don't think my parents are going to have another kid at this point. They're done. They're in their 60s. But what happened was in that moment, I realized I was like, well, this will never happen. I'll never be a big brother to a younger sister. But then I started, like, switching my brain in that moment to, like, this is what it would feel like if I was a father to a daughter. And I just lost it. I started crying my eyes out, and I, you know, start saying things like, I just want to have a family. Like, I just want to be happy. Like, I just want this feeling. This is what I want. This is what I've been after all this time with the chasing after, external validation. But I just want to get a card from my future daughter telling me how much I mean to her. You know, that's what that felt like in that moment. And so, you know, I just cried my eyes out. And that was, like, the first time. I was not expecting it, but that I allowed myself. Well, I didn't. She really allowed it. It just happened. I was vulnerable and crying on tv, and what do you know? It ended up leading to me becoming the Bachelor. People, like, love that I was emotional. They loved to see that. They're like, oh, my gosh, this guy wants a family. Like, he's such a great guy. And that was raw emotion. And so it started, like, you know, everyone making fun of me. I was like, wait, people are okay with me being a man and crying? And it actually, like, ended up getting me the role of the Bachelor like this. So it actually benefited me to cry. I was like, so real men can cry? Like, that's not what I, you know, ever. Like, that's not what I hardwired into my brain prior. And so I started to be okay with being open and vulnerable. Like, that was the catalyst that I didn't realize I needed. And then on the backstory, I cried a couple times. I still was fighting it, and unfortunately, it kind of hurt me because there's a couple times where the women were being emotional and I was, you know, stone faced.

That's when you started to realize that real men can cry, and that's when you start to feel comfortable sharing your emotions.

Yeah, well, I. In that moment, I realized that I was being validated positively for showing emotion. And so that kind of, like, cracked my brain, that moment. But still. Then I go on the Bachelor, and, you know, there was. There was a moment where, like, yeah, the women were being emotional, and I have feared stone face, and I was, because I wanted to show strength in that moment when they were being vulnerable and when they were hurt. And so I still thought, like, when a woman is crying, I need to be their rock. Like, I need to be the one that's strong, so I can't also show emotion. I Need to show strength. And to me, strength was like a man being able to look at someone and then just, like, be there for them, but. But not necessarily, like, you know, don't. Don't. Don't cry with them. You know, like, be that rock for them. Well, it came across on TV as, like, I didn't care, which wasn't true. So then I'm like, well, that's not the right way to handle it. Like, but I tried. I was trying to be there for them, but also, like, I had cried just off camera. You know, I cried behind closed doors. I was like, okay, so I can cry, but don't cry in front of these women that you're like. Cause that. That would be a sign of weakness. So cry behind closed doors. So. So the show has me crying just not in front of the girls, because I was still not okay with crying in front of people again. When I cried on the Bachelorette, I cried to a camera, like, but there was just. There was a person holding a camera. And to me, they didn't. They were. There wasn't a person behind it. And I don't. And, like, I. I got to know the camera, you know, men and women. But, like, when they filmed, I didn't. There was a person holding a camera, but I did see the person. I saw a camera. Camera. It would be no different, as if I was, like, crying in front of my phone, you know, and so still on the Bachelor, I only cried whenever there was, you know, when there was nobody around.

So. And I. I love this topic because it just shows, like, no matter what you do and, like, there's gonna be half of people that hate it, right? There may be a little bit more. Like, a little bit more don't like it versus like it or whatnot. But it's like a presidential election. Pretty much about 50, 50, half the people. No matter what you do, no matter what you say, no matter what you book, like, no matter what you act, like, you're going to be disapproved by half people. And in my opinion. I wrote a poem when I was in, I think, sixth grade, and one of the lines was, love me, love me not. I'm fine with either way, because if one's loved by all, they'd be a soul of gray. Because if you're truly, like, loved by all, then you're morphing into how you want each and every person to perceive you to be, you know, to gain their approval. And so that means you are hiding your authentic self. And when I started to Understand like, oh, you know, I'm getting made fun of by my brother for being chubby and then I became super skinny and now I'm being made fun of for being super skinny. And then I was made fun of because my, you know, whatever, right? And I flipped to the opposite to try to get that validation and approval and, and self worth. And then I would be made fun of for the opposite thing. And so, so it's like, what's the point? Just be your authentic self because people are not going to approve of whatever you are would no matter what you are. So you might as well just be who you are so you can have self love.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I became one of the world's best chameleons and I was really good at it. I mean, I was able to become what I thought people wanted me to be and I was able to do it successfully. I really don't truthfully believe or I wonder, I'm not certain fully, but if I had self love all the way through my childhood into high school, I don't think I would have ever have played football in college or in the NFL. I did it because my last high school game, my dad walked up to me and he was crying and I hardly ever saw my dad cry. And he was like, I'm so proud of you. So on. And I remembered that feeling and I said, I want that again. That's this can't be the last time that I ever feel this. And so I said, okay, well if I want this again, then I have to continue playing football. That's what my brain thought. Like, I've never seen him, you know, show show emotion like this to me ever before and at any, in any other matter. So I have to continue to play football. So I said I was going to walk on at Mizzou and my parents face a little up. And I knew right then I was like, yep, that's what I'm doing. I'm going, I'm going to go play football. And so I walked on and made the team. And then after about like, you know, three or four months, I thought about quitting because I wasn't having fun and it was hard and I just was like, this isn't for me. And I told my parents I was going to quit and they were disappointed. And that disappointment was enough of where I was like, no, nevermind. I don't want them to be disappointed. So I remember that whenever my parents, you know, would be upset with me and maybe like raise their voices, that didn't bother me. But when they said they were just disappointed or it. It wrecked me, it was like they were basically telling me that I was dead to them, which they never said. But, you know, that's what I would equate to. To somebody. It's like if someone were to just basically cut you off from their life, that's how it felt. Whenever my parents said they were disappointed in me because I felt like it was only a matter of time before they would cut me off if they were disappointed enough. And so I was like, I can't disappoint them. And so I put my head back down and kept working. And then I started getting the validation. I started becoming like, I got a scholarship, and I started playing for Mizzou. It's like, hey, this guy that never had any scholarship offers is now playing Division one football, which was very a big deal. Like, I'm playing at one of the top colleges in the nation, and now we're ranked number five in the nation. And I'm playing. It's like, so I'm literally one of the best colleges, like, on one of the best college teams, and I'm playing. So I'm a really good athlete by anyone's metric. And then I started getting looked at by NFL scouts, and I never believed in myself this entire time. So I was shocked whenever my line tight end coach was like, hey, Clayton, some of these scouts are here for you today. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, they're here for you, like, and the other guys, because we had a bunch of first round draft picks. But he's like, no, they're actually. They're asking about you. And I was like, they are heart. I was completely blown away. I had the talent all along, but I didn't possess the mindset. I didn't believe in myself. So it's like, what could I have been if I believed in myself? I mean, I could have been. Who knows? But that being said, you know, this desire for external validation is also. Also has now become my single greatest gift. It's the silver lining. I'm so grateful that I actually lacked self love because that lack of self love caused me to create a work ethic that is unmatched. I mean, and that's why my ego sometimes gets really, really pissed off whenever, you know, I hear a lot of outside noise by people from the bachelor world, These fans that are like, clayton was given everything. And, oh, my ego hates hearing that because I'm like, given. Are you kidding me? Like, let me show you A picture of me from seventh grade. Let me show you my physique as a junior in high school school. I was not given anything other than my height. You know, I didn't do anything for that. Maybe I drank more milk than, you know, and less soda. And so I did, you know, that helped me out. There was hormones in the milk, apparently, you know, when we were younger. And so, like, maybe this and growth hormone helped get me a little taller. But, oh, I get so agitated when I hear that because I'm like, are you kidding me? I wasn't giving shit. Like, I worked my ass off. And so I show people, when I go speak, I show them pictures of me in seventh grade at high school, and I'm like, yeah, because in a way, selfishly, I'm like, for any of you that, that think that I was given stuff, look at this and shut your mouth. Because, no, I was not given anything. I worked my ass off to become who I am. This. This who I am now, today. The things I've accomplished, the way I look like. No, I didn't just. I was just born with muscle. Like, I built this. And so. And I'm proud of it. And, you know, and I had people diminish it and they tried to take it away from me and tell me that, like, oh, he just, you know, he was always this guy. He was always the superstar athlete. No, I wasn't. Wasn't. I wasn't. Oh, he was always the guy that all the girls wanted. No, I wasn't. Oh, he was always just, like, given everything and he was always successful. No, I wasn't. I got all of this because of my work ethic. And that's why I still continue to achieve, because you can't replicate my work ethic. But my work ethic came from, like, me just wanting to feel good enough. And so every day I woke up, I was like, I have to do more. I have to do more. I have to do more, more. And every. Every time I did more, it wasn't enough. I was like, I'm not enough. I have to do more. I have to do more. So now I'm grateful for it because I'm like, my work ethic was built from a place of insufficiency or a place of a lack of self love. And so I was like, if it wasn't for me feeling that I wasn't good enough, I wouldn't have had all of these successes and riches that I have today. I want more, of course, but, like, you know, but I have a Lot of, you know, I'm very blessed. And, you know, but that's where, again, now, you know, we all have an ego. And, you know, I fight on a daily basis to keep my ego in check because I'm like, do not let it get to your head. So I'm very hyper focused on not. I stay humble on, like. And I'm always hyper aware of it because I'm like, do not let it get to your head, because then you're going to end up becoming something you don't want to be. Like, I want to stay humble. I want to be happy, and I want to feel like I have enough. But when I came off the Bachelor and everyone was saying I was the worst bachelor ever, I was like, great. Now I have to go on a mission to prove it to everybody that I actually am worth a shit. So now I have to work twice as hard, you know, from any other bachelor that's ever existed, to prove that I'm actually just. Just as good as these guys. Like, I'm not the shittiest bachelor ever to exist, but that's what I'm seeing online. And so I was like, all right, put your head down, Clayton. Go prove it to everybody that you're not, you know, as bad as people think you are. And, you know, I got to a place where I was just like, you can never. You can never appease everybody. You never will. And so, thankfully, now I'm not at that place anymore. I'm like, I don't give two shits about what you think about me. What's cool about that is, like, now I'm being authentic. So now I'm doing whatever I want to do. You know, it's like some stuff people don't like, but I'm like, I don't give a shit. You could say that I suck at dancing. I don't care. Because guess who's doing the things that they actually love to do. Me. Guess who's sitting here and still stuck in the same place they've been for the last five years?

You.

Why? Because you don't like the fact that I'm succeeding and you're not. Because your ego knows deep down that, like, you don't want to see me exist. Because if I exist and I continue to climb, it reminds you that you're not. And so the reality is, though, is, like, it's like, I'm not going to stop. So the more that you continue to look at me and expect me to fail, you're going to be really unsatisfied. You'll be dissatisfied for a lifetime because, like, you'll watch me fail, you'll never watch me become a failure. And I can guarantee that. And I, and you know, and I. And I've said that before in some ride, but rights. But I'm like, if you're waiting on me to basically lose, it's never going to happen. Or like, I'll lose a game, I'll lose the battle, but I'll never lose the war. And I'll never give up. So, like, you will forever, for a lifetime, if you're waiting on me, me, so your happiness can come. I'm like, yes. Finally Clayton's knocked into a corner and he gave up on life. Like, you're gonna always be unhappy because the reality is, is that your unhappiness is, is being triggered because I'm reminding you of what you're not doing, which is putting the work. So you don't like that. So you want me to not exist. For some people, like, they tell me to kill myself, they want me to not exist because I'm reminding them of what they're not doing. The reality is, it's like they don't. They want to say that they're not happy because life's not fair and because Clayton's given things. And if I was given those things, I like that. Like, like he was, but I wasn't because he was the lucky one. No, it has nothing to do with that. The reality is, is you could have achieved a lot of these things. You still can if you put the work in yourself. There are no handouts, so stop looking for will. Right. Like, you just need to come to terms with the fact that like, you're in the position you're in because of you and you will nobody else and you'll always be unhappy until you finally realize that you actually can control your destiny and you can make a change. No one's going to come and save you. You have to go do it yourself. And those people that hate me, they hate me because deep down they know that their egos know that there is no other option other than you putting the work in yourself. And they hate that reminder every day.

Yeah, I think when people that trigger it's, you know, Gavin Watte says that when people get triggered, it's just trauma in their nervous system that hasn't been healed and it has nothing. And we talk about this when, when I rely on your white casted or like, does it really offend you when people say an accusation to you were given everything or whatever, not gonna go into it. But I said, you know, it really doesn't. It, of course it stings the ego for a second, but it really doesn't because I know it's not, it's not, it's not because of me. It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with that person and their insecurities and their trauma. And I just think of like, I feel so bad that this person has so much trauma and pain inside that they're just suffering. And so I come. It almost makes me feel empathetic for them and just try to put myself and like, I don't know their story, but clearly if they're attacking me or anybody else, they're the ones suffering inside. And that's just how any trigger, like for you, like this thing that triggers you, you have a pain inside that isn't healed, that it's, it's causing this, you know, this triggering you because you have that deep rooted pain of like, I'm not worthy. And if someone goes and jabs you with that, then it's re. Triggering that trauma that's inside of you. And so we all have that, right? We all have these things. And as much work as we do is we peel back these layers of the onion through, you know, therapy and meditation and, and sometimes different medicines or modalities. And all of this work we sometimes think, like, for me, I have, I have daddy issues, you know, and I'm like, oh, I'm good, I cleared it. We're good. I've done so much with EMDR and energetic clearing and therapy and this and that. And then my diet calls and my whole freaking nervous system life, the heart pounding, angry kind of stop. Like with one ring of my phone I'm like, okay, clearly that like I still have a deep rooted issue that isn't clear. And I still, my nervous system is still in a traumatic state from that whole situation. And so it's just a lot of. And so many people have so much like so many things trigger them, you know, and that's why I practice transcendental meditation. Because when you meditate like that, it's it, it clears. My TM teacher, he calls them like the red dots are all these traumas inside of you. And when you meditate, those red dots will clear. And so for someone who, a normal person who is not, you know, more enlightened and he doesn't do this kind of work, they may get flipped, flipped off and cut off on the freeway and that might leave. It's like drawing A line in a rock, like, it leads a Neo scratch in their nervous system that is pretty permanent. And then as you start to do the work and you start to meditate and you start to learn how to keep your body in a calm state of mind or bring it back to a calm state or mind Quaker, then eventually it goes to drawing a line in sand and then eventually to a line in water and eventually to a line in air.

That's cool.

Where you just observe these things, but they don't affect you at all.

I never thought about it that way, but, yeah, that's actually really cool to think about the progression of how you're able to adequately handle negativity or a response that normally would trigger. It's like, how do you progress to do that? And I do think that, yeah, you find as you start to do the work, I have done the work, I still haven't met much more to do, and I will never stop. But, you know, I've done multiple healing modalities. I've done breath work. I journal still every day or almost every day. I just finished emdr, which I did proactively, which was incredible. I. I had this massive breakthrough with a. A prior traumatic event that I had to go back and rewire. And that's what EMDR will do. Like, it forces you to go back to that experience and then basically relive it and then be able to shift your perspective of what you felt in that moment versus what you would feel or what you needed in that moment, and then how you can basically move on from it. But you have to. Basically, you have to rewire that memory. And so that's what EMDR is incredible with. And so I did proactive therapy recently because I was like, let me just try to fix things. Not because I have to now, but I want to, like, let me get ahead of stuff because it's gonna. If I don't heal it, it's never gonna be healed until, like, I, you know, stitch it back up myself. Right. Like, I can't just keep slapping band aids over an OB wound. Like, I. I need to, like, adequately heal it. And so. And so how can I do that? Well, there's all these different mod where, again, it requires work. It's not easy. It hurts. It, like, stings to open up the wound and try and, you know, start messing with it. And. But it's essential for, you know, to move on. And, you know, that's where even just my last little rant that I had, like, I used to be fearful of Being more direct and blunt towards people. But, like, the way that I just had that whole just banter, banter right there. It's like I am being direct, right? And I'm giving tough, tough love to the listener. Because inevitably there's going to be some bachelor person that watches this begrudgingly. And, you know, this has happened before. They clip up something I say, and they're like, oh, look at what he's saying about us. He thinks we need to grow, but he needs to grow. Like, he keeps attacking us. And it's like, it's just like, again, you have an ego that's unchecked. And you know what sometimes you have to do? Fight fire with fire. So here I am. Spit fire out of my mouth now, because I'm like, I need to get through that dense ego of yours. I need to be the trauma for you because there's growth on the other side of that. And that's what I really believe to be my journey and the reason why I went through what I went through, I had to go through it in order for me to heal. But. And also, I'm also a. A individual that's meant to be the trauma for others to allow them to heal. You know those people that message me, and they're like, you're a piece of shit. And you're my. You know, it's like, you don't deserve to ever find love. It's like, I've asked people, hey, can I just ask you, like, where this. Like, like what. What gave you this thought process? Or like, where it's coming from? From, you know, what. What made you feel the need to just send this to someone that you don't know? Because the reality is, is you don't know me. And they'd be like, oh, you know, I'm sorry. Like, you just reminded me of an ex boyfriend. Bingo. There it is. You don't hate me. You hate what I remind you of. And that's all the trauma that I read, you know, and the negative responses that I received online. I was like, none of you know me. You think you know me. You watched a TV show that that's. That you know, is that he is a TV show show. There's real components to it. But if you think you know me after watching me on your screen for a total of like an hour of TV time, like, you got to see an hour of my personality, and you think that you know who I am. Like, if I tell you to go talk to someone for an hour, do you think you're going to know their entire. You know, who they are as a person. No. So sorry, but you kind of a little stupid when I frame it that way. Like, you're not too bright if you think that you know who I am after an hour. Now, with that being said, I don't want to call anybody stupid. You know, I think it's just the unfortunate part is that people watch a show and they think they all sudden know you. It's like, you don't know me. Right. And so now, though, I'm like, hey, I'm trying to make this apparent to you because I want you to heal. Because reality is. Is like, you can attack me all you want and you can go into all your forums and attack me, and you will continue to be unhappy because you go to your forums where other people will attack me because you're doing it so that you can, like, because we all want to relate. We all want to feel less alone. So you're going into these little forums and attacking me, but you're not. You're not going to ever feel any better because you're going to uto to find you're finding other miserable people, and you're all being miserable together. And guess what? Happy people don't do that stuff. Like, happy people don't go on forums and attack other people. Happy people don't send DMS to people that they don't like what they've. What they've done. Like, happy people just go on with their lives. They might be like, huh, that was kind of dumb with that person to do that. That. That's. Then that thought goes and they move on with their life. Like, I had not sending negative DM to somebody I don't think, I don't even know in years, if not long. Like, ever since I. Because it's so My thing is, I'm like, understand that, like, look back at yourself for once. Like, you don't hate me. You hate what I remind you of, because there's something internal that you struggle with and you always will struggle with. And, and after me, there'll be another bachelor that you'll have hate. And then another one and another one and another one. And the show does such a great job of giving them continual fodder. Here's another bachelor that they can hate. Here's another one you can hate. Here's another one you can hate. Here's another person. And they find that person, they find their next clique, their 2.0, their Clayton 3.0, their clique 4.0. Every season, the show gives them somebody to hate and they hate them. And the reality is it's like you don't know any of these people, but the show keeps giving you exactly what you think you need need or what your ego needs in order to not actually address the reality of the, of the problem, which is you, you're the problem.

Do you regret? Like, obviously there's a lot of things that came up in the Bachelor and there was this scandal and I don't know, I don't watch. I'm actually probably the only girl that has never watched the Bachelor. So I didn't even know you were anything when I met you, like on the show or whatnot. But like, I want to, before we wrap up here, I want to kind of hear like, what was the most, most traumatic event in your life or the darkest period in your life and was the TV show part of that? Or, or those might be two different things, but I want to hear if you're willing to share.

Yeah, actually it's something I, it ties into emdr. I just had this recent realization. It was incredibly powerful. So I'll share my lowest moment and how I was able to just basically to tie a silver lining on her as of last week. Week, which is really cool. So when the show was airing, there were two episodes that. So you film for two months and then you have a four month delay and the final two episodes air live. So four months after I had filmed the show, the show's now airing and the day before the finale, so there's a two part finale and the finale, the final, like the final episode is where I come out with, you know, my ex Susie, and it's like, oh, hey, we're together. But the day before that, that they show like the final, like what, what all happened on the show leading up to like this, this, this final point. And they had a panel discussion of all these previous people from the show, basically just tearing it like saying that Clayton's not smart and the way he handled this is terrible and blah, blah, blah. And so all these people are talking about how poorly of a job I've, you know, done as the Bachelor. And so I'm watching this live at a safe house with Susie, my ex. Like we're sitting in a, this mansion watching this live episode with the rest of America. So I'm also have my phone with me and I'm getting, you know, tweeted at and DM'd and everyone's talking about how stupid I am on TV, live television. They're Telling me how dumb I am in my DMs, they're on Reddit telling me how stupid I am. They're on Twitter telling me how stupid I am. So I'm getting all this hitting me at once, thousands of messages. I get up from the couch, I'm like, I can't. I can't handle this anymore. I walk over to this. The. The back door of the house, and I'm staring out the window, and I stare out that window for 30 minutes, and I'm just sitting there thinking, why me? How much easier would it be if I just wasn't here and didn't exist? Like, why? Like, I. One more thing that I failed at. You know, I got the opportunity of a lifetime, and I squashed it. I just ruined it. You know, like, that just goes to show I'm never going. I'll never be good enough. Everything that I touch turns to shit. So, you know, I'm thinking, like, it'd be easier if I just gave up and get in through it all way. And that was the lowest point. And so, you know, that actually then ended up becoming the thing that I brought up in my EMDR sessions. And I went to my therapist, and I said, she's like, well, what do you want to. Like, what's something that, you know, that. That is plaguing you right now and is traumatic? And I brought up this. That. That moment. I said, all right, we're going to dive into it. And the first three sessions, we were making a little bit of headway, but then I started thinking, like, I really wanted to, like, go get. Go back to the root. Like, I wanted to. There's something from my very beginning of my life that I'm trying to heal and uncover. So, like, I don't know why I mentioned this story. Like, it's not that important. So I was like, I want to switch this, but she's like, let's go deeper. Let's go deeper. And I'm like, okay, fine. And I was like, I feel like I should have, like, brought up a better memory because there's nothing here. Like, I moved on from it. But then on the seventh session of emdr, she's like, all right, we're going to go back to that moment. So put yourself back in that position. You're. You're at the house, you're staring out the window, and what's going on in your head? All right, here we go again. And so I'm like. Like sitting there thinking, and I'm, like, staring out the window. I have these feelings of not being good enough. I'm having suicidal ideation. And then all of a sudden, boom. My brain switches to my family walking in the front door of that house. And I turn around in this image and I look at them and they just softly smile at me and open their arms and I run over to them and I embrace them and I just start bawling. My eyes, though. And in that moment in the NDR session, I start crying. I mean, just like waterworks. I'm just. I just can't control it. And I felt so safe in my head in that moment because I was like. But I also was crying because I'm like, wow. Like, if my family walking through the door is what I needed in that moment, I just needed my foundation, my rock, my. My loved ones to be there for me when I was at the. At my lowest point and they weren't. And that's why I have such a scar, you know, that's associated with that moment moment. But what scarred me even worse and then why I was crying was because I realized that in the last two years of my life, I started to separate myself from my family because they, you know, didn't understand Hollywood and mindfulness and like, they, you know, I thought that they were so close minded. And I started saying, like, my family doesn't get it. I have to distance myself from that. And that was wrong. And I realized that I was like, all the while that I distanced myself, my family never cut ties with me. They always were there to be there for me when I needed them. When I needed someone to crush, older to cry on, when I needed someone to venture, they were always there. I realized I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I realized that my family loves me unconditionally. And I almost cut them out. I tried to cut them out. Like, I was slowly doing it, but they were always there for me. And they told me, like, clay, we will always love you and we will never cut you out. Like, no matter who you become, we will always love you. In that moment. I put the piece together. I was like, I have been miserable the last two years of my life because I've gotten away from what really matters in my life, which to my family. Like, I need to stop going to clubs and taking women home and spending 3k for a table to. To feel important and to make more money so I can go on more dates and then tell women how much money I make and, you know, and then start buying houses and then posting on social media about, oh, look at me like I have an Airbnb, which means I must be rich. And like, I was like, I. And then hanging out with people that I thought could advance my career. Not people I like, just people that I thought could, like, make me more money. And I. I was, you know, spending time with those people, not people that I cared about. And so what happened was, is, like, I felt empty because I was pushing away love. And that's what I realized is I was like. I was like, clayton, none of this shit matters. It doesn't matter. All that matters is the love that you have in your life. I don't give a damn how much money I make. I don't care. What? If you think that I don't make enough money, fine, Piss off. That's. I don't want to date you. That Mike, because I don't want, like, I want someone that loves me for me. And all I want is love. And all this other shit the smoke screen mirrors. There's so many 30,000 odd millionaires anyways in Scottsdale. And there are some people that are rich and great, good for the them, but, like, it's not for me. Like, I. I'll make my own money when I make my money when I'm supposed to. But, like, I need. I realized I was like, I need to spend time with my loved ones. And so ever since I had that realization, I have spent every weekend with my brothers. At some point, I call my family more and I talk with them, and I'm happier because I realized that I was chasing after the wrong things. And just once again, external validation, which is what I've always chased after, and I lost myself again doing it. And so now I've, you know, I'm like, okay, Clayton, never do it again. Don't ever chase. External validation. You have all the validation by ear with the drug outreach.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I can imagine how lonely that feels. And there's a guy named Mike Ferry, Tom Ferry's son, Eagle Deed. And he does muscle testing and stuff to figure out your. I don't know, like, for me, alone is my word. Like, that's what I've always felt above all else is alone. Some people it's nothing. Some people, it's not worthy. Some people, it's all these different things, but feeling of. I feel like so many people are so lonely. And there's a statistic that shows, like, the. I forget what the statistic is, but so many people feel so alone. Despite the connection of social media and these things, it's actually caused people to feel even more alone and it's, it's just a hopeless place to be. And I think the purpose of everything is love. And when, because I too same same thing. Always want, trying to be perfect. I was trying to look the craziest, always trying to make the most money. I was trying to be the cool girlfriend that lets my boyfriend do whatever the fuck they want to do. And having no respect for myself and always trying to be a good friend and always being on. It's not like everything, right? And in the pursuit of acceptance and in the pursuit of love, we lose our authentic self and we become this thing that we've created because of the validation that we've got. When we try these other modalities that, these things that, the validation. And when the intention is to try to love yourself or try to get love from others, then we will always be left empty inside. We'll always have that. Those whole like will we Swiss cheese inside? Will we try to fill these internal holes with this external things and this external validation. And we'll never be whole and we'll never be happy and we'll never be satisfied no matter what we get. Because there'll always be someone prettier, handsomer, richer, better, kinder, smarter. All the things there's always going to be somewhat better if you're seeing it that way. Right. And so when, when we shift to coming from a place from love, you know, I'm doing these things because I love myself, I'm working out because I love my body, not to try love my body or you know, I'm hanging out with these people because I love myself and because I love them and they make me feel expansive and make me feel whole. And that's the shift that I think so many people are missing and all the answers are inside of us and they're not outside.

Yeah, it's all choice at the end of the day. You choose when to finally take those actions to better your life. And then you also get to the place where you're following shoes to see things different, differently. You have the choice to change your perspective, but you have to take the action. And that's a choice on itself. So I think, you know, you said it really great how you wrapped it all up right there. I just want people to see it. And I think that's why I'm, you know, getting a little bit more tough lovey with the way that I present my journey and my advice or my experience. Like I'm kind of being a little like, you know what? Now so many people need a little bit more of, like, a, you know, a tough love approach. Like, I can get 30 you. I just have to do it a little bit rougher, but you'll see why I'm doing it later.

Everybody seems to want looks and fame and wealth and all these things, but someone like yourself who has pretty much everything from the outside, outsider's perspective of you, and obviously, it's so different when you go on the inside, but, like, are you glad that you have the fame and those things? Like, are you glad you went on the Bachelor and you're. You're grateful for those things, or are you, like, this is just a big nightmare that.

No, I'm. I, I. I believe that I am exactly who I'm supposed to be in this moment. I believe in God, and I believe that God has a path laid out for me, and I believe that God also knows that I can handle what most people can't, and that's my blessing. And so I think that every one of us has a purpose in life. And some people are meant to impact five people, some people one, some people a million, some people a billion. You know, and. And I. And I believe that I'm one of those individuals that's meant to impact many. It just. It just feels like my calling. And so I think in order to impact many, you have to be seen by many. And so I was seen through reality television and whatever else comes, you know, there's more now. There's more coming down the pipeline. And, like, you know, I can't say too much, but this isn't the last people have seen of me, so it is what it is. I never thought that I was going to have this experience, but I have. I didn't go looking for it. It found me, and I think I was destined to be calmest person. So I choose to believe that. Though somebody could say that everything I just said was crazy and not true, but the reality is it is true to me. Therefore, it's true. Like, that's my truth, because I choose to believe it. So I don't want to live the. I mean, I have two choices. Either choose to believe that my life is a blessing or choose to believe that it's the worst thing that ever happened. And if I have those two options, I think it's pretty obvious why I would choose one or the other. So that's the way I choose to live my life out. My life is a blessing, and I am meant to be great, and I'm meant But you know, those that are meant to pack now you have to be subjected to criticism by many. You can. It just. It just comes with the territory.

Well, thank you so much. We help in all the vulnerable and raw and sharing all that. And I guess to wrap up here, what's one piece of advice that you would give to people, but particularly men who, you know, maybe struggle with feeling alone or feeling vulnerable or connecting to their feelings or, you know, finding their authentic selves and getting out of that.

Find your tribe. There are men all throughout the world, probably in your town, unless you live in a town of like 20 people, but there are still tribes of men that are healing together other somewhere. They're not gonna maybe find you. You know, you're gonna have to be put the work in and go search for them. But they exist. I'm in a men's group here in Scottsdale. If anyone's listening to this. And you're in Scottsdale and you're a man and you wish you could talk to other men about, you know, mental health and your struggles you face, because you would feel better if you knew that there are other men out there that are facing these problems. We have a men's group that I'm a part of. It's called Middle Finger Mom Mantras. I love it. I found this group a couple months ago and there's. It's a group of, gosh, I think it's 80 to 100 men. And we meet weekly. And, you know, maybe only a quarter of a group shows up. So I guess everyone's busy, but it's always there. And you don't have to show up every week. You know, you can show up whenever you want, whenever you need to. But 20 men showing up once a week, talking for two hours about mental health, it's there. And you can show up and not have a single thing to say. We don't expect you to say anything. Maybe you're just meant to listen until you finally learn the lesson words to be able to start becoming the speaker. But the beautiful thing about it is it's just a group of men that there's no judgment. We just say, come as you are and just exist. And then when you feel inclined to share, share. And guess what? You'll share. And there will be at least one guy there that will be like, pull you aside afterwards. Like, dude, I know exactly how do you feel? Because that's what they did to me whenever I showed up. So that's my advice. Go find a tribe and they exist. And if you don't live in Scottsdale, like, there. Trust me, there's more out out there. Like, you'll just have to do some dating, start talking to people. Like, hey, I'd love to join a men's group. Like, you heard anything like that? And start saying that, before you know it, you'll be like, oh, oh, my gosh. Yeah, I know. I did that for dance. I asked somebody is look for a dance studio. And that's the dance studio I've been now been at for a year and a half. It was. I asked somebody at my brokerage, you know, I was a real estate person, like, oh, you want to dance? Yeah. I used to dance at this place. Go, go there. Boom. I didn't know that place existed because I was looking in Scottsdale and they were in Mesa. So just start talking about it and find it. And once you find it, like, you'll find your people and you'll find your. You'll find your foundation and you'll find, you know, love, which is what it is. That that men's group is just a bunch of men that just love others for existing. So go look forwards there. Thanks. I can hear. Thank you so much. I know.