From X Games Legend to $500M Real Estate Mogul: Dan Brisse’s Secret

You're gonna take a risk if you invest and you're gonna take a risk if you don't invest. And from my perspective, I'd far rather take the risk of investing versus taking the risk of letting it just sit there and bleeding out.

What's the one truth about success you wish you would have learned earlier?

It's really a set of habits, and once you have them, it's guaranteed. The real gift of building a business or creating major goals and achieving them is the person you need to become.

Isn't it fascinating how one one thing can change your life? One mindset shift.

That was the time those books changed my life completely. And once my mindset shift from those few books, the rest has been history.

If you were going to die tomorrow and I was going to die tomorrow and you had to leave one lesson to the younger generation, what would it be? Welcome back again to the Hannah Hammond Show. I'm here today with Dan Breezy, who is one of our awesome clients at HP Capital. So we get to see the inside of his values, his integrity and his performance with his real estate investment firm that now manages almost $500 million in assets under management. And he has raised nearly $200 million in equity capital for his multifamily syndications and now in the triple net car wash space also. But before he got into real estate, he was one of the best snowboarders in the world and is a four time X Games medalist. And we'll have to play some of the clips as B roll on this film because he has jumped from building to building, done backflips and 17 foot jumps and distances and is an absolute extreme athlete and just an incredible human. And beyond the success and the awards and the medals and the fame and real estate and in snowboarding, he's also deeply, a deeply conscious human and he's done so much personal development work. And I was able to, you know, share a meal with him yesterday and just it's amazing to see the type of work that he has done on himself and the kind of father he is, the kind of husband he is and the kind of leader that he is in his company and how he serves his clients and his family to the, the absolute maximum potential. So I'm very honored to have you on the show today and I'm excited for this conversation ahead.

Wow. Thank you for the intro. Well said, well spoken. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for coming on the show and to be here. We're happy to, to be able to finance some of your projects at HV Capital. And, you know, we see a lot of sponsors, we see a lot of leaders, and not all of them are great, you know, and we always talk about. Or I always talk about the jockey and the horse. Right? The horse is the investment vehicle, but the jockey is the operator. And the jockey is at times, and most often more important than the horse. And I know you. You co founded Equity Towers, which is your. I'm sorry, Granite Towers, which is your equity real estate investment firm, with your partner Mike, who unfortunately couldn't be here today. But you also co authored a book, and you talk about the importance of the operator and how to choose those right partners in your business, in your life. So we'll. We'll dive into that. But before we get into that, I want to dive into your origin story and what your childhood environment was like and what really drove you to mastery, you know, which originally began with snowboarding.

Yeah. Yeah, you bet. I. I appreciate that. Yeah. So, you know, for me, growing up in Minnesota, I had big dreams as a kid. I wanted to be a professional snowboarder. And I was sharing last night. One of the best gifts I had growing up was I had parents who believed in me. And so when I told my dad and mom I wanted to be a professional snowboarder, you know, my dad straight up said, go for it. And it wasn't like, hey, go for it. You're gonna guaranteed get there. This is for sure gonna happen. It was, go for it, and be willing to work much harder than you probably think you're gonna need to. And, you know, I think the piece I would just share with parents that's super powerful, that I'll never forget, is if your kid or if your child has a goal or a dream to support them, because you could never know the level of desire they'll create to make that dream come true. You know, when I was a young kid, I didn't know what it was going to take to be a professional snowboarder. I had no idea, really. I just knew I loved to snowboard. I knew I wanted to do it. But over the years of obsessively snowboarding and obsessively working at the career and building little bits of confidence, my desire turned into a burning desire. And the burning desire was unstoppable. Couldn't not snowboard, couldn't not think about it. And I'm in school in Minnesota, and I'm looking at my heroes on videotape, and I'm watching these videos every day. And, you know, to see them that far away and to see that big picture, it was. I didn't realize what I was actually going for and how big of a goal it really was. But the part that's just super critical, I think, for young kids to hear is to start with something you love, go for it, and just take baby steps and be super consistent and be willing to put in work for a long period of time. It's the other piece that I think is happening so much these days. When I hear kids that are young, they want this success overnight, they want it quick, they want six months, a million, a millionaire, multimillionaire. And from my experience, that doesn't happen very often. Maybe you become a YouTube star, maybe become super huge on social media and you create massive wealth quickly. But most people I've got around and I'm lucky in the world, I live to be around a lot of highly successful people. Most people have committed a good decade of obsessive behavior and eventually, with the right failures and not quitting, they find massive success.

Yeah. And what, what was the original draw towards snowboarding? Was it completely fueled just for the love of the game or did you have any, like, was there another intention behind it? Like. Yeah, no worthiness or ego or status or things like that?

There was a little bit that ended up being a part of my desire. You know, like, I grew up pretty much broke or we lived in a lower to middle class family lifestyle. And my parents worked hard. You know, they worked nine to five, they saved their money, they were frugal. You know, I was just talking. There's their 80 years old, been married for 60 or 56 years, 57 years, long time. And you know, seeing them work so hard and not following and doing what they love was really eye opening for me. I always hear my parents talk about how it's like, just do what you love, you know, I didn't do what I wanted to do. I'm not happy with what I'm doing, but I'm doing it. And I just, that was burned into my brain of like, do what you love and chase it. And so by the time I was 13 or 14, I just love snowboarding. It was this like moment to be free. Like, no one's there telling me how to snowboard. I was in football, basketball, and I had all these coaches being like, this is how you do it. This is how we behave. And it's just like with snowboarding, it was, you do whatever you want, there's no one telling you what to do. And so. And I loved the idea of just Sports and being extreme, like, taking the risk. The adrenaline was extremely exciting at a young age. And it just, it just meshed well for my body type, my size, and growing up in Minnesota. So in the beginning, it was just purely the love of the sport. And, you know, eventually it turned into, how big of a career can I make this? And that wasn't probably until three to five years of me snowboarding regularly in Minnesota that I was like, okay, there is professional snowboarding in the world and I'm going to chase this dream.

What age were you when you decided, like, I'm going to actually do this for a living?

Yeah. Such a good question. I was like, I don't know, 15, 16. And I still remember a very clear decision where I'm going to make this snowboarding career work. I'm going to make it or die trying. And I think that's something that is worth touching on as well. You know, the, the level of commitment someone has for a goal. My goodness, commitment moves the world. So if you have a level of I'm going to make it or die trying, mark my words, based on the laws we live in on planet Earth, from my experience, my 41 years of being here, it's coming. You will create it. Just. You got it. The commitment is the separator.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what, that's what I was going to ask you next is what does it take to go from I'm good at something to I'm the best in the entire world at something? And it's that level of commitment and that grit and that relentless desire to succeed. And there's that quote that says, when you want to succeed as badly as you want to breathe, only then will you become successful.

So good. So good. I could not agree more. And what's interesting about a goal, or at least my perception of these goals is, is if you just take steps every day and you do all you can do that day, you will build this confidence. You will start to gain experience and have this unique perspective that nobody else will be able to relate to. And, you know, as I went further and further and start. Started to move out to Salt Lake City and I'm snowboarding every day. I'm working at these really shitty jobs like Blockbuster, which was. It was good. It was, you know, gave me some grit and fight. I'd work at Blockbuster at night, I'd snowboard during the day. And I thought within a year of getting to Salt Lake City, I'd be this big time pro snowboarder. And I Get out there. And I'm like, dang. These guys that are my heroes who I'm, like, starting to see and associate with at the mountain, they're so much better than I thought they were. There's such a gap between where I was and where I thought I was that nothing happens. Year one, and I'm eating peanut butter and jelly for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and working at Blockbuster Snowboarding. Year two, I go back home to Minnesota to, you know, save money and work. I'm doing odd jobs in the summer. I go back out to Salt Lake. I'm like, okay, this is my year. I'm working at, like, Red Robin or Lo Red Lobster, and I'm like, peanut butter and jelly, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and nothing happens. Year two, and I'm like, dang, man. This is. This is something where I just didn't at at 13, had no idea what it would actually take. And that's the piece I just say to the listeners is like, you're going to have to put in work, and it's going to be for a long period of time for some. Some big goals. And so year three, I'm like, okay, this is my year. I'm going to make it this year. Nothing happens. I actually end up getting hurt the third year really badly. I dislocate my kneecap. And at that time, I'm dating this girl who says, yeah, you should. You should go to college. And I'm like, you don't understand. I'm committed to this. Either you get on the bus or you're cut. And so she and her mom just couldn't get past college. And I'm like, we're done. So I break up with this girl. And then year four comes, and I've got a great friend who is in Salt Lake City.

He.

He's got money, and he says, hey, Dan, I'm going to take you to Aspen, Colorado. You need to compete in the Aspen Open. And in an Open, anybody can enter. You just pay your 200 bucks, you get to do your run, and you get two runs. If you finish top 10, you go to finals. And if you finish in the top finals, top three, you might get a sponsorship. So day one goes by. We've got, like, 200 kids that are there because anyone can show up. And anyone you get, you think you're decent, you pay your money, and you get your runs. I end up finishing, like, sixth that day of qualifiers. So I'm in finals the next day at finals. I don't know what the hell happened. To other guys. But I end up winning this contest.

Wow.

And that was the beginning of these brands, saying, hey, I've been watching Dan. I've seen him. He's had some good parts. This is kind of the breakthrough moment where some brands. One guy at a brand that I've been riding for for a long time, his name is Blue Montgomery, owner of Capita Snowboard, says, hey, you won that contest. I want you to come to a couple events. And it's amazing how quickly when one person puts you on the platform and you've got the preparation, how fast a career can take off, because that was, like, literally within a year, I was. I. I had contracts with every brand. Vulcan, GoPro, Rockstar, Capitan. It was just completely unknown to a blowup. And that's what everyone said. They're like, where'd you come from? You blew up overnight. I'm like, yeah, you weren't there the first 10 years when I was eating peanut butter and jelly, you know, going through injuries.

Yeah, yeah. Everyone's an overnight success after, you know, one or two decades or more. Right? So I know it was something. I'm in this mastermind commercial real estate mastermind called Commercial Academy. And their slogan is, one deal, one time can change life forever. And it's such a testament to just that. Like, what in real estate, one deal, one time can change the entire trajectory of your entire life. All the work that you've put in, all the grinding, all the failures, all the lessons. And same thing with relationships. Like you just said, like, one right relationship that you're very aligned with. They can help you absolutely explode. And you never know when that relationship is going to present itself. So it's just a matter of rising to the type of person that is deserving of attracting that kind of relationship or that kind of overnight win in your life.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. The. The quote that comes to my mind is luck is when preparedness meets opportunity. And I had so many people be like, you're so lucky. And I'm like, you have no idea. You have no idea what I've gone through. I mean, all my buddies who were really close, who were filming with me would always say, dan, you're crazy. You're nuts, dude. You're so obsessed. You're. You're. You work way too hard. Oh, my gosh. Like, all you think about is snowboarding. And what's interesting about it, Hannah, is when I got to the top and I got around a bunch of other pro snowboarders, they were all like, me they're all obsessed. They all had a one track mind. Everything else came second. It just didn't. Nothing else mattered. It was the one thing. And so whatever the listener's goals are, the piece that I just can't emphasize enough is get into something you're good at. And that's the other piece that I think about a lot too. When I was in high school, there was a lot of things I wasn't good at. You know, I wasn't, I was a decent student. I was getting like B's and some A's, whatever, but I wasn't like this straight A student. I didn't do that well in school. And I didn't take it super personally or hard and worry about college too much because I had this other thing I was really into and I found my strength and I just went deep on my strength. And so I think in life, if you can figure out what you're good and everyone's good at something, get good at, get clear on what you like to do, what you're naturally good at, and go deep on that and you become, can become so outstanding.

I love that so much. Because a lot of people focus on improving their weaknesses, right? Which is always good to, to grow your weaknesses and all that. But your focus should be on improving your strengths and your gift and operating in your zone of genius. Because find those strengths and you learn that early on. Instead of resisting the things that you weren't so good at or weren't so passionate about, you leaned all in and were absolutely relentlessly committed to that one thing that you knew you were really good at.

Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. When you're in that sweet spot, you'll want to do more, you'll want to put in the work. You won't have to force yourself.

Yeah.

You know, I always, I hear a lot of folks talk about how, like I'm, I've got to use this discipline to do this thing. And I'm like, goodness, do you have a why? Because if your why is big, you know, the how is easy. And so I go back to your original question of why I got into snowboarding. It was definitely partly money. You know, for me, I was like, hey, how can I make a lot of money and help my parents who've been working their tails off and, you know, live in this place of passion and, and have wealth? So it was, it was a two part process and I'm, I'm grateful of to, you know, follow it and chase it.

How did you know the Income potential of a professional snowboarder.

Yeah, I didn't know exactly. It was, it was hearsay for a long time of what these guys were making. And finally when I got into probably year five, year, year six of my career, I got to know people in the industry who knew some of the top guys. And I heard, you know what, they're making between 750 and a million. And for a kid making literally 5,000 a year, driving beater cars, eating peanut butter and jelly, I'm like, dude, that's enough for me. So, you know, looking back, I'm glad I didn't get discouraged thinking, oh, you're not making many millions. It was, it was just, it was enough to be excited about doing it. So that's. It wasn't, it wasn't clear, though, when I first started.

Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting. As you continue to grow in life, you continue to unlock new doors to new levels, and then you always find yourself like at the bottom again to somebody, right, you're at somebody's bottom, there's always somebody ahead of you or more earning potential or whatever. And to some people making 750,000 or million dollars, to most people, 99 of people, that would be something that they don't even believe is even possible. But then you get there and then you realize, like, oh, there's people making, you know, 100 million a year or a billion dollars a year, whatever, which is crazy. But I think just to hone in on what you said, the amount of pain and failures and commitment and work and grind and growth that you have to go through to be successful long term, you can't withstand that if you're not passionate about something. I don't believe, because no normal person would be able to withstand the kind of storms that you're going to face.

Agreed, Agreed. And, you know, it's amazing, as the career went on and I started to receive more accolades and I'm, I'm, you know, on the COVID of magazines, I'm traveling the world. My parents can't believe it's happening. I'm calling from Japan and then I'm in New Zealand and, you know, I'm winning X Games gold medals, I'm on tv and my parents are watching from Minnesota. And, you know, it was just this like, holy shit, of my dream is here. And what's crazy about it, Hannah, is that at the time of being at the peak, I could see the end. And that was a moment where I got to know all these guys who were five or ten years in front of me and I saw their careers winding down in front of me and it was so scary to see. Like I'm telling you, so many athletes are living beyond their means. If athletes just took a little bit of what they're making and invested into something that created cash flow and they got on the side of hopefully saving on tax a little bit, they'll never have to work again the rest of their life. But what happens time and time again, almost like clockwork, is these guys sign these big contracts and potentially gals, but in my world, guys would sign these big contracts, they buy a big home, they buy a small sweet car, everyone thinks they're rich. And they got a mortgage for 30,000amonth. And then, oh, three, four years later, there's an injury or something changes and the contract ends and they have a mortgage payment that they can't pay. Once the contract ends, the home's gone, the car's gone, and they're literally back at the grocery store. And I saw it. One guy, one of my really good friends, Nate, got paid out 2 million bucks from one of the brands when he got, when he as his retirement bonus. And he took his 2 million bucks, spent six months traveling the world with his five best friends, partying, tattoos, came back and he said, money ruined me. And I'm like, nate, money didn't ruin you, buddy. You just didn't want to do with it. And so when I see athletes that are bawling, I just think in my head, I hope they're clear on this is a very short period of time. It's short lived. What are you going to do to take what you're making now and set you up the rest of your life? Because money at a young age is a superpower with time compounding it.

Yeah, yeah. And I see that so many times in the athletes that I meet. They think that it's never going to end and they think that, that that money's just going to continue on forever. And it goes so fast. I mean, you can blow any amount of money in a very short period of time. And I don't think there's enough education out there around financial intelligence. And so that's why, like mentors of mine, like Robert Kiyosaki, where I read his book very young, and I believe you read that book too, which is what segued you into real estate, which we'll tap into in a second, but just that, that ability to automate. Automate your investing. So I learned this from David back a couple weeks ago. He's a massive multi billion dollar fund manager, very successful author and speaker, but he talks about automating your savings. So 15 off the top. No matter what you immediately put that into, whether it's real estate, whether it's a stock account, a 401k self directed IRA like you can open up an Acorns account and where every single week or two weeks or whatever, that gets automated and then over time that just compounds. And so if you put these simple tools in place, you can create massive financial freedom. Even on a low salary job, you don't even need to be making $1 million a year.

Yeah, it's so much easier always to go up to. Like, if you, let's just say you're making 500 grand a year and you live on, you know, 150 of it. It's so much easier to make the lifestyle nicer than to go backwards. If you're like, oh, I got to, I got to reverse it. Once you're getting used to a lifestyle in a home and a car, it's so much more challenging to go backwards. Where if you just take that. For athletes and people making good money at a young age, or anyone making good money, take a three to five year window and act like you're making very little and invest it like a beast in great assets. Great. You know, with. Right. Advisors. Like, unbelievable how much different place you could be. Because, gosh, if I had, if I could have helped Nate when he got the 2 million and I'm like, hey, dude, here's your million. Go have fun. Let's take this million and let's invest it. He would be living in a place of complete freedom.

Yeah. And it's a lot harder to make a million dollars again. And then it is to just invest what you already have and get going. And that's exactly what I did from the lessons of rich dad, poor dad, where he said, okay, use your income to acquire assets and then use the passive income from your assets to pay for your liabilities and your lifestyle. And so that's what I did. And in real estate, it takes time to have enough passive income and enough cash flow to have a good lifestyle because it takes time for the assets to appreciate and yada yada. But that's what allowed me to become a millionaire by 25 years old. And I didn't make a million dollars. I made 50,000 here, you know, 50,000 here, 30,000 here, 20,000 here, whatever. And as much of the percentage as I possibly could out of that money, I immediately invested that into assets that I knew could build up my passive income. And so I didn't start, you know, just in a few years of growth and the appreciation in the market and the value add that I did to the properties. I was a millionaire and I didn't, you know, I had only probably invested less than $200,000. And so that's just the power of what wealth can do or any amount of income can do if you, you strategize and you invest it properly and don't just want instant gratification.

And what I love about your story is you didn't grow up with a bunch of gifts. You didn't have like this huge pot of gold given to you at a young age. You came from a very challenging upbringing and turned it into a beautiful solution at a relatively young age. So I just, it's.

Thank you.

Hands. Hands. Yeah. Round of applause. Beautiful work. And hopefully people who are listening here that it's possible.

Yeah.

To go and create that for themselves.

It is possible. And we were talking about that last night. And after our conversation, I actually went to Robert's house because he lives right by where you were staying. And we were just talking about the power of belief. And people, people always think like that's not possible. And then I was talking last night and I'm like, we, do you realize we're here, we exist. There's, we're in this universe of expanding infinite nothingness where this flesh bodies with consciousness and brains and there's thousands of species all across the planet of just what we know, like anything is possible. If you don't think that, if you can understand that existence is possible, then how could you not believe that becoming a millionaire or becoming a professional athlete or anything that you could possibly dream of is possible? And so I think that's just the biggest thing. And if we can zoom out and actually see anything is possible. Life itself, existence itself is nothing but infinite possibility, then we can level up our capacity to actually grow. And we were talking about that like I might thinking too small.

Yeah.

And what is too too small thing? And how do you even acknowledge that you are thinking too small? And how do you think bigger? Yeah. And so what did that. Well, first off, before we go there, how did you manage your relationship between courage and fear as you were becoming an athlete and then shifting into real estate, starting fresh from not knowing anything?

Yeah, man, that's a great question. I, I, my relationship with fear. And fear has been such a big part of my life. Every time we would film at a spot if you watch some of the videos, you could see like it was very, very highly chance of major injury or potentially death. And so there were times when we would be hitting these features where, you know, I'm gridlocked. I'm. My fear is I literally am almost shaking. And I know we have to go like this. We've, we've spent this time, we're in a unique location. I picked the spot that I want to hit. Nobody else said, let's do it. We spent four or five hours setting it up and who's going to hit it? No one's going to hit it other than the riders that are there. And you do rock, paper, scissors, ro shambo, you know, rock, pairs or scissors. And if you lose, you're going first. And the first is always the most dangerous because you don't know your speed, you don't know how the jump's going to be, you don't know if it's going to have this, that there's variables. And so the best thing I can say with risk, from my perspective of being in a world of potential death and major injury is do all you can do to prepare, to take as many risks out of the way as possible and prepare like your life depends on it in the, in your quiet time. So that when the moments come, you've done everything you could possibly think of to make it as safe as possible. And then even then there's still risk at hand. And so, you know, it's, it's a, it's a decision inside, a committed decision of this is what I love to do, this is what I'm here to do. I look back at it now, I wouldn't do it ever again. Like if someone said, hey, Dan, if you just jump this building right here, it's a 30 foot gap, this building to that building will give you 5 million. I'd be like, no possible way. And that's only, you know, six or seven years ago. So my, I can see now and I always hear people say, like, yeah, Dan's crazy, he's risking his life. This is too dangerous. A lot of the filmers and photographers weren't excited to be there. Sometimes when you're hitting these spots because they were so dangerous and now I can see why. When I was in the moment, I was so used to it, I was so conditioned, I was so trained. I'm like, this is just the next step, you know, this is, this is the logical next step. And so with fear, you just prepare all you can. And when it's Go time. You got to take the risk. You know, a similar one I deal with right now is ice baths. I hate cold water. And for some reason it's like, I just have to go do it. And so the moment of like, what am I here for? It's gonna. And you know, you got ice in water and you're sitting in ice water. I don't know how it is for any for you if you've ever been there.

I don't enjoy it either.

It is brutal. It's the thing I literally shake before I get in. And every time I do it, I get in the water, it's less painful than it was before I get in. And the lesson is, is just go. You know, like, there's. You're going to be fine. Just go. So I think that's how we're looking back. There was a lot of fear dropping in. There was a lot of fear transitioning to real estate. But just go. You got. You got to go.

What do you think that success changed who you were or did it accentuate more of who you already were?

I think that the process of evolving to the goal changed me for sure. Yeah. The, the person I needed to become was very different than the person I was. And I think looking back that, and even now in business, that's the thing that's most exciting for me to this day. The accolades, the money, all of it is really cool. But the long lasting excitement and passion that keeps hitting over and over again is the self progress, the self growth, personal growth. I read a quote by Ray Dalio this morning that I can't remember exactly what the words are, but basically the real gift of building a business or creating major goals and achieving them is the person you need to become. And so, you know, that's true for me and I don't see it ever changing is like one of the foundational piece of why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a. It's who you become on the journey and you can't. You have to become. We talked about that earlier. You have to become the kind of person that deserves the kind of life that you want. And you have to have the capacity to actually hold that life. So, yeah. Was in, in snowboarding, was there a defining moment for you that changed who you are or how you saw the world, or was it just a series of events in training and becoming.

Another good question. And I did have two moments when I shared last night at dinner. We were in Fairbanks, it was two in the morning. I'm filming for my fifth or sixth X Games part for espn and I had an error on one of the jumps where I slipped out and I came flying next to a handrail. And if I would have hit it, I would have definitely broke my back. And it was a moment. I'm like, I've got a child. He's one, he's up here with me. My wife and my son were traveling with me at that time. And I'm just thinking, what would it be like if I was in a wheelchair the rest of my life? And so that was number one. Then later that year, we're in Alaska filming in Haines, Alaska. And in Haines, Alaska, we, we're using helicopters. And so our crew of three riders, and three riders are in two different helis and we're basically hitting different ridge lines. And as we're filming, one rider gets dropped off or two riders get dropped off. The heli films you on the way down and you get soup back up and you keep doing these lines. And while we're out there, the helicopters are communicating and all of a sudden our helicopter, we get done with our line and our helicopter takes off and we're like, what the heck's going on? And, and our guide who's standing there says, hey, we just had someone got buried in your crew. And I'm like, who? Who got buried? And the message comes back, bod bod's a good friend of mine. And I'm like, okay. So we're listening in the back country to our guides walkie talkie while they're, while they're dealing with this emergency and our heli goes over there to help dig out. Because when someone goes down, all the helis get together, all the people that are there get together, go and find this person, pull him out. And Bodhi ends up setting off a bus like a, a bus size school bus size cornice. And he scales down this face with this cornice and he gets buried four feet under. And luckily these guides are unbelievable in Hanes. And they're tracking him, following him down the hill, following, watching him, watching him, watching him. Finally at the end, there's a slough where you can see him get buried. And the slough keeps coming and we see the point where he was last seen. Heli drops. The entire crew sprints to where they think it is. Beacons are out. You know, we find them or they find them, boom. You probe and they probe. First hit, they nailed them. They're like, we've got them right here. And in that type you're in this V format for shoveling. Person up front is shoveling as hard as they can, giving it everything they got. When they're tired after like 20 seconds, boom, that guy goes to the back. The next guy pulls up 20 seconds, as hard as you can. They go straight down the probe four feet and hit, hit his mouth right there. They found him like as fast as you could have possibly found him. He's blue. And that was the moment. And they flew him to Seattle and he lived. But that was the moment. I'm like, I love snowboarding and it's been really great, but at what point is it enough for me? And that was really kind of those moments where it, it was a really big accelerator of like, I'm out, but, you know, I can't just cut the career. This is my only source of income. What am I really going to do after I'm done? I, I don't know if your listeners that are listening, they're like, hey, I can see an end coming. That was me, like, I can see this end coming. I don't want to do it anymore. As much as I love doing it. My life's changed. I had children and so that was the moment. Those were the two moments that really were the deciding factors for me.

Wow. And then from that point, how did you learn about real estate and decide to make that transition above all other things that you could have done?

Yeah, that's when I just was obsessively reading about what to do with the money I was making. I luckily had some really good friends back in Minnesota who are wealthy. I would stay connected with them and ask them what they do with their money. And I just started reading books and I came across Rich Dad, Poor dad by Robert Kiyosaki. Came across Tax Free wealth by Tom Will Wright. I came across Ken McElroy's book the ABCs of Real Estate Investing. And I read a book called Retire Young, Retire Rich by Robert. And the idea of creating passive income to exceed my expenses, to give me freedom was so exciting. And so I still remember I was driving up to Whistler to film and I'm listening to an audiobook in the truck and I'm like, well, that's, I'm setting a very large goal today of how much passive income I want to have coming in from my real estate investments or my investments, you know, in a five year period, in a ten year period, in a fifteen year period. And that was the day everything started to shift because I just started to head down that path. So I bought a duplex about a 9 plex. I bought a 24 unit deal. I started seeing passive income. I learned real quickly that the inflation piece with, you know, the dollar being turned to currency in 1971, that the dollar is going to be toast eventually. And there's something I got to do to get on the side of inflation again from the rich dad company changing my perspective of everything I learned about the cash flow quadrant. Of what quadrant am I in? Am I in ESB or I, oh my gosh, I'm in S. No wonder my tax bill is so high. You know, I'm this kid making money as a snowboarder, obsessively going after this career and then at the end of my year I, I have to pay 40% to the government because I'm in the S quadrant. No one told me that. No one taught me that. And you know, shame on me to not go and do some research earlier to learn that. But yeah, that was, that was the time. Those books changed my life completely. And once my mindset shift from those few books, the rest has been history and nothing's changed. I've been looking to create passive income, hedge inflation and, and create depreciation. And that's all we still do.

Yeah. Isn't it fascinating how one, one thing can change your life? One perspective shift, one mindset shift. And that was the same for me. When I read that book and a couple others that you had mentioned, I was like done. I don't really need to know anything else. I'm just going to go do, I'm just going to execute and learn along the way and make the mistakes I need to make. But we just live in such an amazing world where we have, especially now, infinite access to information from the most incredibly accomplished leaders in the world. You can literally create an AI advisory firm of every single leader that you look up to and respect that will give you real unbiased advice and keep you out of your echo chamber if you just talk to AI, like as your friend, right? And so these tools that we now can build to be able to have these advisors and these mentors even without any money to have to go pay for them or try to get one on one coaching. But yeah, when you, you know, a lot of athletes that I've talked to or you hear about, they say that when they leave their career they feel like, like they die, like it's some sort of death. Did you experience that at all or were you. Because you went from being the best in the world at something that your whole identity had built around for as long as you could possibly remember to brand new, you know, pond scum in the world of real estate, like not really knowing anything about it at all other than some theories and concepts from books that you had read. What was that identity shift for you? What did you feel like a kind of death? Or were you very aligned and grounded in and excited about this next path?

Yeah, I, I, I know when I talk to a lot of my buddies who transitioned in a harsh way, it was extremely painful and you know, like I shared back working at the grocery store, drug addiction, suicide. Like it's real, it happens. I think about one of my buddies, Jager Bailey, what an unbelievable kid. He ends up getting cut and he committed suicide.

Oh my God.

And yeah, I think the thing that saved me was I got clear on my next path before, you know, the end came. I started preparing for the exit. I started to get ahead of it. I started to get excited about something else. Right. I started to, I had kids too. I think that was something that helped me tremendously. It's like I can go and sulk in the corner or I've got a child who's dependent on me, you know, so, and my wife, she's her only passion is to be a stay at home mom. She wasn't out to create wealth. She doesn't, she, that's just not her forte. It's not what she cares about. So I knew it was up to me. So the, the, the best, the, the biggest gift I've got was that I had something else I was excited about and got after it in the middle of my snowboarding career. So that when it did end, you know, I had 60, 70, 80 units, something like that, and enough passive income where when my gut, when I got fired, I was still free.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what did you, what part of your identity did you have to let go of to make room for that next chapter? Like as you were transitioning because it wasn't a cold turkey. Stop. You started to acquire assets, but you were still being the best in snowboarding, had to perform there, which is not an easy feat. So was there like an identity shift for you?

Yeah, I think that, you know, the athlete in me is still in me. I still, I still see myself as an athlete when I'm in the gym, but that side or that part of me has, has gotten much smaller, you know, and, and the other side of being a business entre, businessman, entrepreneur, leader is, has been, you know, it's just been this give and Take and the growth is happening over here. So I wouldn't necessarily say something died. And I will say, like the skill it takes to create what we're creating now. It's somewhat similar in sports. Yeah, it's not sports, but it's similar discipline, similar levels of commitment, similar willingness to take risk, similar willingness of never quitting. And it's at the foundation of that is what I think is really the separator of for people to go from success, success to success to success.

Yeah, yeah. Those lessons tries. And that's why usually I love team members who are athletes or anything like that or. Or Marines or anything. Because it's. It's what you just said, the level of commitment, the level of grit, the level of integrity, the level of resilience, and all of those things that are so important. It's not just the tactical things like the how on how to create whatever you want isn't really that difficult to understand. I mean, you could ask anybody, you could ask Chat GPT. It'll tell you exactly how to do it. But it's the actual values and those qualities in us that are required to be successful. And that extreme ownership where it's all on you. Like, you can't. You can't blame anybody for your failure in snowboarding other than yourself. Right. If. Or in business or entrepreneurship. Right. Like, you have to take extreme ownership.

Yeah, that's such a good point too. And I think that that's something I hear so much, is I see people pointing the fingers, you know, saying, yeah, well, this person did this to me or this employer didn't do this. And as long as you keep pointing the finger, you just keep giving the power to them. And as soon as you harness it and say, no, no, no, everything is happening because of me, and you realize how much power you hold now you can go create anything. But if you don't hold that and you keep giving it away and be like, this person did this. My parents didn't help me here. I hear it so much. My gosh. I hear friends that I grew up with where, you know, they're a wealthier family and they still are talking about how my dad didn't help me more. And I'm just thinking, dude, you got to let that go. As soon as you let that go and say, it's up to me now, you can turn into a superpower. Until that you're always going to be controlled by outside sources.

Yeah, that victimhood. And I think Napoleon Hill talks about that and outwitting the devil and you know, 98 out of every hundred people are consumed by fear and scarcity and victimhood. And if you're consumed by those things, you can never create anything because you have to empty your cup. Like, you have to let go of the past and. And truly see everything that happened in your life is a blessing. And I know we were talking last night about my. My story and some of the challenges and struggles I've gone through. And that moment when I took realized that I had been resenting or blaming the people in my life who had hurt me over the years so much and was carrying on to so much of that anger and that resentment and that was holding me back from having exponential growth in all areas of my life and like, true freedom. And when I could take extreme accountability and extreme ownership of nothing happened to me. And I'll even go beyond nothing happened for me. I created everything that's happened in my life, even the things not to say. Like, when you're a child, you can't choose certain environments you're in or certain circumstances, but you choose how you respond to those circumstances and you can grow from those. And then I was able to learn those things were my greatest blessings that I could have ever, ever, ever asked for. And now when I could look at those people who had caused me pain in certain periods of my life, now I can look at them with real empathy and real compassion and real love because I genuinely feel in my bones and in my veins that they were the greatest gift to me and they were the greatest blessing. And if I didn't have them in my life, then I wouldn't have been able to grow into the person that I am today. And that shift is like, really what was able to set me free and be able to attract and have this abundance in my life. Because you have to let it go or it'll control you forever.

Yeah. And I think the way you said that right there, that's what makes you so unique. To be able to realize that and to see that for what it truly is and then to move through it and past it and to release it and to own that you create all results. You have all your power that is going to be as you continue to evolve your superpower. Congratulations.

Thank you.

Yeah. So few people understand that. It's unbelievable to me.

I know that's what we're trying to help people do here because it's. It's necessary to reach your highest potential and. And create a life of love and abundance and passion. So percent so you. So when did you Decide to start raising capital. You had done a few deals and then what was that kind of shift for you? Of, okay, I want to scale this and I'm going to start raising capital. And what were some of those first conversations like? Because raising capital is so vulnerable. I mean, I told you last night, my biggest fear is managing other people's money because I don't want to let anybody down. I want to always do right by them. And I know, you know, people work so hard for their money and I would never want to lose it. And I'm just, I have those, those fears or that some of that resistance towards that. So how did you push through that? And what were those early conversations like to be able to start, especially with no track record, like, how did you open that door?

Yeah, phenomenal question. And there's so much to it, you know, like when I first started buying, it was all my money. So I bought a duplex, nineplex, 24 unit deal. Mike, my business partner, who was looking to buy 100 single family homes, Mike, hey, let's buy an apartment together. We buy 28 units, something like that. And it's all our own capital, all our experiences. We had some deals that did well. We had one that struggled. And the reality of what I saw was I saw an avenue to create passive income, to hedge inflation and to create depreciation for me. And I had some success in doing that on those first few deals. I got lucky too, in 2012. Like, you're at the bottom of the market. I had no idea it was purely luck of timing. So every deal I'm buying is in this really nice long trajectory headed up to the right and up. And that's not how all markets cycle. So there are cycles that have affected, like we've seen since 2022, we're in a downward cycle and it's resetting. So there's risk no matter what. And there's risk, though, if you don't do anything with your capital. I saw that with my grandma, I saw that with my parents. I see it with my parents. I see it with the older generation who save dollars. So you're gonna take a risk if you invest and you're gonna take a risk if you don't invest. And from my perspective, I'd far rather take the risk of investing versus taking the risk of letting it just sit there and bleeding out. So for me, raising capital is, would I put my money in this deal and do I see a true opportunity here? And that's the best I can say. Can I Guarantee returns? No. Can I guarantee success? No. Can we say it'll all be, you know, exceeding our projections? No, that's not how this is. But it's. Which risk do you want to have? Either sit on the sidelines and let your money get eaten up by inflation. The silent wealth killer. Silent wealth stealer. You know, quick story. My grandma, she's. She died at 96. When she was in her early ages. She had five kids who were 12 and under. Her husband committed suicide, sadly, and she's got five children. She lived through the Great Depression who are 12 and under. And she's on one source of income. All she knew was to work hard and safe. Work hard and safe. And she worked until she was in her mid to late 80s. Most frugal woman I've ever seen in my life. Hardest worker, just unbelievably, like full of grit from the pain she went through. And at the end of her life, she needed to go into assisted living facilities. And the assisted living facility can be 8, 9, 10, 15,000amonth like we talked about last night. And her savings that she saved for her entire life got depleted within a few months. And so for me, it was when I saw that firsthand, when I heard my parents talk about it, I'm like, well, that's never going to work. What she did is not going to work. And after reading all these books, I. I'm really clear that you either got to get on the side of inflation or you're toast. So when it comes to raising capital, it's, do you have a deal you believe in? Do you know what you're doing? Do you have a track record? Do you have the experience? And we had, you know, four or five deals to speak on. And when we had our first deal that was a capital raise deal, we were certain of it. And certainty sells. And if you're certain of it because you can buy a property, it was a 50 or 60 unit deal, 45 or, I don't know, smaller deal. And down the road, two blocks away, the competitors getting $250 higher in rent. And it's a little bit nicer deal. And we look at this property and it's really clear this property needs new siding, new parking lot, some new windows, and we'll do a little upgrade on the common area. And we did that work and leased it out at 250 to match our competitor. And our rents went through the roof and I went through the roof and value was immediately created. So, you know, does it mean every deal is going to do? Well, no, you just have to assess risk to reward and see what are you looking to create in your life. For me, it's massive passive income.

Yeah. And how do you structure your syndications? Like what are your return profiles and how have you, in the early years, how were you identifying the right team, like your contractors and your advisors and those types of things? And how important were those in your decisions?

Yeah, we, we, I would say looking back, we got a little bit lucky. You know, Mike and I have a fair, I'd say solid intuition together. You know, when we're hiring our vendors, when we're picking our managers and him and I working together, he's very, we're very different in the sense of our skill sets and we complement each other very well. So in the beginning it was just Mike and I, literally, Granite Towers Equity Group was Mike and I. And we don't have a ton of experience. We've never been through a recession. Like, I wouldn't going back, I wouldn't invest with us again, you know, but I had to go through that learning phase to get to where we are now. But in the beginning it was, you know, hiring a mentor, somebody who was double checking our underwriting, someone who had a track record and experience and working closely with them, going through a pretty rigorous training there. And then as we're building out our vendors, you know, we're interviewing several property management companies and Mike and I are doing our dang best to ask all the questions and get clear on who the best manager is going to be. And then that manager brought in a lot of vendors that she used on many deals. And so we relied heavily on our property management company as our team member to really help us dial that part in. And we were, knock on wood, lucky to pick a really great manager in a really great deal, really great timing of the market. And it allowed it to go up. We're set up on, I think on that one was like a 9010 split. It's our first deal we ever did. Now we just do a straight 8020 structure. 80% of the capital, 20% to the GPS. You know, it can be very. You can have 70, 30, you got a 50, 50, we just do an 80, 20 split. But that's how we set up our first deal. And it was really just 9010 is really simple in the sense that 90% of the cash flow goes to the investors, 10% went to Mike and I.

And what was your approach to raise capital for that deal? How much did you have to raise and how did you actually raise it?

Yeah, we only had to raise 550,000. And I rem being like, how are we going to do this? Because we were raising at 25,000 a pop and it was the time of the market where things were going up. A lot of people had a lot of success and we had somehow we had a pretty good reputation in the groups we were in. So we raised it in like two days. And so, yeah, Mike and I were both like, man, if we raise 540 in two days, we should raise a multi million dollar deal. So the next time we went back, we ended up doing 2.1 million. But, you know, I don't know how else to say it other than you. You either got to get the experience and be really confident, certain and you have a deal, or you got to tag along with somebody who's going to be that person for you, and you can make dang sure that you've got similar core values and you roll together.

Yeah. And core values is so important. And I've been doing so many core values work. And Chris Voss, I saw him speak a couple of weeks ago and got to sit with him for a couple of days at an event I was at, and he said the success or failure of any relationship comes down to the alignment or misalignment of core values. And I know we were diving into this last night, but it's so critically important, I think, for younger entrepreneurs or just people in general. I didn't start learning core values work until this year. Like, you hear core values, they're up on the wall at corporations and things like that. But what does that really mean? And how are you integrating your values in your life? And do you actually even know what your core values are and not even know the word of the core value? But the action of how that actually shows up, like, what is that? What does integrity mean to you? Because that means something different to everyone. And everyone will tell you they have a value of integrity, but very few people actually do. And so when we can get clear on that in the investors we take on, in the business partners we take on, and the team members that we bring aboard and the spouse that we choose, the friends that we choose, and everything is just really, really honing in on those core values. And that's going to lead to so much more success and so much less resistance because you have an alignment in so many areas. And then the tactical stuff just comes easier and you can work through a lot of the issues that are always going to arise.

Totally. Yeah, we implemented EOS into our company over the last 12 months. And they're big on core values. And one of the superpowers that that's created for us is when we're hiring people, we'll give them a core value story pitch so they can look into our company and see what it's going to be like to work with us. And if they're not aligned, I just want them to know right now, just tell us this isn't a good fit. Because if it doesn't align with you here 6 12, 18 months down the road, we're going to break up anyways. And then you've lost, we've lost. It's not, it's not worth it. So 1, 1, 1 superpower of the core values is allowing people who want to work with you to see what it's like to really be on the team. You know, one of our core values is constant, never ending improvement. And if we're recommending a book in our company and they're like, I'm not reading that book, well, you're out. Doesn't work. And that's okay. There's no problem with that. And I just want people when we're bringing team members in to be able to see that so we don't have to waste anyone's time or money.

Yeah, that's funny. That's our first core values. Continuous growth, continuous improvement. So beautiful. Yeah. If you're not growing, you're dying. And I know Robert Kiyosaki and I talk about this all the time. He's like, I, I had to fire everybody at my company because they didn't want to grow, they didn't want to learn. I would tell them to read a book, I would tell them this, I would tell them that, and they're like, we don't want to learn anymore, we don't want to study anymore. He's like, well, then you can't be a part of my organization because that's all I'm about, is continuous growth and improvement in learning and studying.

Yeah, Perfect example right there. If Robert had those core values, he would have caught that right out of the gate and maybe sidestep that one.

How do you exemplify it really well in your core values image where they can really see what, feel, what it would be like to work with you versus just the words on a page? Because I feel like sometimes when I interview people, I go through the core values, I talk about the action, how that shows up, but I think sometimes it just goes over people's Heads. And they're like, oh, yeah, good, great, sounds good. But then when you actually bring them aboard, you're like, okay, clearly these are not your values and you didn't really understand that. And so I'm doing something wrong to not explain that properly. Or like, how do you test people ahead of time to really understand the alignment or not?

Such a good question. Such a good question. So one of our other core values is be relentless. And so what we do when we're interviewing somebody is I tell them a story of someone on our team who was relentless. So there's a story of our asset manager. She's headed out to Tyler, Texas to look at our 265 unit deal. She thinks she's headed out for the day. She just got her computer and her, her briefcase. And on the way out, the broker calls us and says, hey, guys, you didn't keep your end of your agreement. You don't have these 25 units rent. Rent ready. Because we're selling this deal. You don't have them rent ready. And if you don't have them rent ready, the retrade's a million bucks and they're coming out in three days to walk all these units. They better be done. I'm like, hey, Don, did we not get clear with our on site team that those need to be rent ready? And she's like, I didn't, I wasn't clear on that. There was miscommunication, poor leadership on my end. So I say to Don, these have to be done or this deal's not going to trade for the price we need to trade at. And so her, she, she's a beast. And she's like, cool, I'll just stay out here for the next three days with the team and I'll rally vendors and I'll bring them on site and I'll work with them until it's done. And she stays out there for three days. She calls me that night and she's like, hey, Dan, I'm headed to Walmart. I gotta get a bra and toothbrush. That's relentless. And so, like, when you're interviewing and you're hearing that story, if you're like, I'm never doing that. Perfect, just walk right now. Whereas if you're willing to do that kind of stuff and you can see yourself doing that kind of stuff, you're going to fit in really well here. So the stories give the picture.

I love that. I'm going to try that.

Yeah, don't try it, do it.

No. Yeah, I've Got to. I'm going to do that. I'm going to gather my stories and get them very clear and aligned and start doing that in my interviews. Yeah, it's definitely. Interviewing people is not one of my skill sets. I'm like, oh, I like their story and I like the animation.

Change that belief. Change that belief.

Yeah, it's not old belief.

Yeah. Core values. Right. And you'll write into it.

Thank you. Yeah, I needed that. So that's good. In your book, you talk about active passive investing, and I think this is one of the myths that people believe when it comes to real estate investing. Because, you know, all the books and the teachers, they say it's passive income, but it's not that easy all the time. Right. So what does active passive investing mean to you? And how does that separate the opportunity of truly passively investing with you as a limited partner investor versus somebody that just says, oh, well, why would I work with Dan or any other manager and just go buy my own apartment complex for passive income?

Yeah, great question. So what we mean by active passive investing means, like you said in the beginning of this interview, it's the jockey, not the horse. You have got to do your due diligence and you have got to figure out if the people you are investing with are ethical people, if they have clear core values that align for you, if their system and processes are in place, how committed are they to their deals? What's their track record like? Are you certain there's nothing fraudulent going on behind the scenes? That's the part I'm talking about. We're talking with active investors. And unfortunately, right now, when the, you know, what do they say when the, when the tide is out, you see you swimming with their pants down. You're seeing a lot of syndicators who are doing a lot of shady things. And so that gets around quickly. And if you're doing shady stuff with people's money, it's called a Ponzi scheme. You're doing stuff that's illegal, you're going belly up, and you're likely going to jail. And so that's the part where it gives what we do potentially a bad name when it's such a beautiful asset class to be investing in. So that's the part where we say, be active and do what you need to do. Ask the questions to build the trust. No question. No. No investor is going to ask me a question. Well, I'm going to say, I can't answer that. I'm not willing to give you that. And if that's if you ask a question they're not willing to give you something or not willing to tell you something, I'd walk. It's perfect. Thank you for sharing that. You're not the right person for me and you don't got to be mean about it. You're just investigating. And so. And the other way to really build trust quickly is to get with somebody who's investing and who has had multiple success with the Jockey or a sponsor and then you can tag along that way.

Yeah. What are some of the key questions that investors should be asking sponsors to identify red flags or do the Jockey test and really uncover is this person somebody that's trustworthy, aligned and, and, you know, mission driven, value driven, has the right team, has the right experience and all those things that they can identify quickly even if they're not necessarily super savvy in the real estate world, I'd.

Probably start high level with AI and just take the website and just ask anything that you can figure out about this company just to see if there's anything that pulls up online. ChatGPT. Tell me about Granite Towers Equity Group. What, what red flags have come up. Anything in the media that I should be aware of. That's, that's their big, like, okay, done. Beyond that, I'm asking for referrals of investors. Ideally, you know, send 3, 4, 5. There should be many, should be countless people who are willing to pick up the phone for 15 minutes if you've done well for them. These investors are like, yo, you've tripled my money on this last deal. I'm happy to pick up phone calls for you. So there should be many referrals, you know, immediately available. You should be able to go visit their assets. I'm going to go fly into Dallas. I want to see three or four your assets. I'm not going to tell you. I'm going to be there. You know, this is, this is the work part that can be a little bit like, oh my gosh, I'm going to do all that. So if you're like, I don't want to do all of that, I would just get on, on a zoom call with them and get referrals, ask for their track record, ask for some of their financial statements on some of their assets. That's stuff that can be all done at home really easily. Then if you're still like on the fence and you're thinking of investing significant money flying into their market and taking a look at some of their properties and meeting with them in all Relevant to easy stuff to do that should be done to verify it and, and just give it time. You know, we're working with a lot of family offices right now and looking at getting into some bigger checks and they just move slow. Doesn't matter what you say, it doesn't matter your track record, they just don't make decisions quickly. And so I think it comes down to, you know, emulating some of that stuff and, and just being, just being diligent.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so fascinating to see because we see behind the scenes of so many operators and different opportunities, you know, whether we bring them on as a client or, or just meet them for the first time to see if they would be a good fit to be a client. But you know, some fund managers or syndicators, they, in the past three years, as you know, have been brutal in, in this business. It's been very challenging. You kind of see who has their, their pants down and who doesn't. But some of these, you know, they're doing Ponzi schemes, they're raising more money to pay investors back or they're just doing capital calls or they just lose the money. And then they're out in Jamaica or Cabo or wherever, traveling and they have their, their nice watches and they're flashing on social media when over here they just lost people's money, which is insane to me. But you see all of that and you start to question like, wow, you know, it really is about the jockey. The, the horse is important. That's the vehicle. We know the vehicle's good. Real estate's an amazing vehicle and always will be. But it's the jockeys that are harder to find. Those world class, best in class jockeys. And then we have sponsors that they, instead of doing capital calls, they put 5 or 10 million of their own money from their own checking account into a deal to keep it going to get the rents where they need to be, wait for the rates to drop a little bit so they can be in a good position. How many jockeys are actually willing to do that when it comes to the wire? Not many. And so it's so important to be able to do that due diligence to whether you're an investor looking to invest with a fund manager or syndicator, or whether you're entrepreneur who's looking to bring people aboard your team and just being able to uncover, that's what I'm working on, honing my craft, is being able to uncover those values quickly and honestly where you can really see through The BS and see the truth.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's. That's gold. And. And it still may take some time. And. And you. You may come across a sponsor that has had some challenges. It's not necessarily a deal killer. You know, like you. If you do 30, 40 deals, I mean, we're on deal 31. We've had a struggling deal. We've had a really bad deal, and we've learned a ton from that deal during this pullback. And there's some very clear principles that we've put in place. And I know from the pain we've gone through, it'll make us a better sponsor. It'll make us a better firm. It already has. Our firm today versus who we were back in 2022. You can even compare us as far as the team members we put in place and what we learn and systems and processes. So just because a deal didn't do well for one sponsor doesn't mean I could never invest with them. In fact, those are the types of people who I. If I'm investing now, I'm looking for someone who's had some great success, been through a recession, had a really struggling deal or two, and they're still here because the people that we're seeing leave right now are people that got wiped out in the last recession. I don't want to give my money to somebody who hasn't been through a recession, because when the recession hits, we see if they're going to survive, and if they don't survive, everything's gone.

Yeah. Yeah. And on the. On the questions is like, what are some of those failures? And just like you said, if you haven't been through failure, then how can I trust you? Because you might have just caught a good market, and everybody can win in that market, but you don't have the team or the systems or the processes in place or the principles in place to be able to actually get through those hard times. And that's when it really shows who the real pros are and who are the wannabes.

Yeah. We work with a billionaire, and he says, do not only talk about your successes, guys. You're shooting yourself directly in the foot with these family offices. If you don't talk about the pain you've been through and that you're still here. He's like, they're going to write you off immediately. So the success is great, the pain, great. Use it. Dial yourself in and keep going. Just like in snowboarding, when you get an injury, you don't just quit and go home. You're like, damn, I got to make sure I never do that again. And you are better in the future for it. Same stuff, just bigger scale.

What were some of the key lessons you learned from that deal that went bad and over this past few years? Yeah, and how did you change in your business?

Number one is just your tenant profile. Know your tenants on site better than you think you could ever know them. Like, what are their habits? What are their tendencies when things get tough, what's going to happen with them? How will they behave? And you know, for us, the tenant profile we're picking is the most important thing. Like the last two deals we bought in multifamily are 2003 product in a locations that are B plus assets. These assets are easy to manage. I didn't know the habits of these people on site. You might have one every now and then that goes rogue. Delinquency is bad. You got to evict. But it's like 1 in like 150 versus 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 or 1 in 10. So to know how to manage that tenant profile or be willing to go through some really challenging times re tenanting assets, and it's when that happens, all shit breaks loose in multifamily because occupancy drops, delinquency rises. Now you got turns. Now there's stress on the staff. Now you got people who are quitting. And it just makes it very complex. So if you're not an extremely sophisticated firm with many, many years of experience local to that submarket, with teams that have turned these deals around, I wouldn't touch rough deals personally. Not saying they can't be good. Some tenant profiles are very different than others that are lower income. You know, I don't want to go into details because it probably wouldn't be appropriate, but there are some tenant profiles that pay no matter what, and they're, they're lower income. So it's core values of the people that you have as your tenant profile. And when you know those core values and you know their level of income, you can pretty much predict how they're going to behave.

Yeah, that's awesome. And so I know we don't have a ton of time left, but shifting gears into the personal development. You have shared with me yesterday that you've done a lot of personal development and you're very energetically aligned, you're very values driven and you've really pushed yourself into a higher consciousness and are passionate about realizing your full potential and your highest version of yourself. So when was that shift for you, and, like, what did you realize? When did you realize, or what made you realize that you needed to do or wanted to do some work inside and push to the limits of plant medicine and meditation and some of these practices that you've done that have been integral in changing your life.

Yeah. One guy, I brought his name up, I listened to a lot and really admires Ray Dalio. If you haven't read his books, Prince Principles, Changing World Order, get them. It's extremely clear that things are going to be more challenging in the future than they were in the past. But he talked about how transcendental meditation changed his life. It was the superpower for him. So I went through a quick course in Portland, Oregon, where they taught me how to do transcendental meditation. But I never got to a place with it where I was consistent, like, with my workouts. I'm super consistent. Monday through Friday, my workout's gonna happen. And I just. It's just part of my life. Whereas with meditation, I struggled to have the discipline and really get to a place where I saw the value from it. And I got around a really good new friend of mine. His name's Paul Hutchinson. And Paul was talking about how, you know, he would go and save these children on child trafficking. And he would talk about how he would have these Navy seals that would go in on these private operations, and they'd go into these third world countries and save these girls, boys that are being trafficked, and these Navy seals that retired, they would be dropping like flies because of the stuff they saw. Their mental clarity would just go down the tubes and they couldn't do it. And they'd be like, I'm done. I'm not doing that anymore. They're too hard to see. It's too hard to do it. And he would do these psilocybin retreats with those guys to bring them back and create health and to heal them. And I just, you know, after hearing him talk about how it's a medicine of healing, because what was interesting, and I've shared this with you a little bit, Hannah, is that when I talked to some of my friends in high school who were doing it, they're like, dan, you're talking about doing psilocybin. And I'm like, yeah, I see it as a medicine. They're like, dude, that's a drug. And I'm like, no, not for me. The way I've seen it, the way I've been brought up, the way I've been taught about it, it's purely a medicine of healing. And so that's the way I went in. In my snowboarding career. I was, I never did anything ever. I never smoked weed, I rarely drank even. So I'm, I'm very clean human being. But when I saw it in the sense of medicine and I went to Columbia with Paul and his wife Vanessa on a seven day retreat with a bunch of other real estate investors, it was the most profound experience of my life, hands down. Like, just to gain perspective on how I see my wife transformed 180 degrees. Big reason that we went down to Columbia is I wasn't. Melissa and I were in a tougher spot. And Melissa's my wife and you know, when I came home, she's like, you're so different. You're so different. And I'm like, that's because I see you differently. My lens has changed on how I see you. And when my lens shifts, I treat her differently. And she's like, dude, I need to do this. And my wife is raised Mormon. You know, she's like as clean as you could ever. She's never drank once in her life ever. And definitely, no we definitely nothing else. And so she. I ended up finding another amazing couple out of Austin, Texas who I love, I trust with my life. And Melissa started to do integration processes in the part with plant medicine that I think is really critical to hear is for me and I'm just basing off my experience of real life. What I've done is the set and setting is critical, like where are you and who are you with? And so if you have a really clear intention of I'm here to get clarity around these things in my life. When you go into it, you can have these realizations and downloads that you're like a light bulb goes off and you can never forget what you learned. And so that's really what happened for me. And then my wife, she's going through an integration process of weeks via zoom with the facilitator working on some things and, and this is personal growth. It can be uncomfortable. But it's like, what are you going to do? You're going to live in a shell and be constrained by it or are you going to work through it? For me, I'm working through it. And so Melissa does 10 weeks of this and she goes in and I pick her up from the airport after her four days there. And I'm listening to her talk and I'm like, I've known this woman for 20 years. I've been married for 17. The word. She's using the language coming out of her mouth. She's a different woman. She sees she has gained perspective of things that had her constrained, trapped, that she can now just move through. And so to see that happen for me, to see it happen for her, I think it's a superpower of people who are willing to go through potentially some uncomfortable reflection period for very quick growth.

Yeah, it was the number one most impactful thing on my journey of transforming. And I don't. I honestly don't think I could be where I am without it. And it was that same shift. People, after I did my first ceremony in that setting because, you know, I. In high school, I did mushrooms to party with the high school kids. And that was not this experience. Very, very different experience. But when you go in with a healer that are. That are gifted in this realm and they're. They're literally brought to this earth to heal, and you have the right frequencies and the right intentions and the right integrations to understand how to implement everything and integrate everything, it was the most profound experience in my entire life. And I literally came out of it a completely different person with completely new perspective. And, you know, I can't say that it's for everyone, because I know there's some people that it may not be for, but for me, I don't. The. The therapy wasn't as helpful. The meditation wasn't as helpful. The breath work, none of that stuff was as helpful until I was able to integrate it with this experience.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. I would say the biggest thing that changed for me after my journeys was my ability to meditate. Now my meditations are much deeper. I have the ability to gain clarity on things that were much more difficult to see clearly, you know, and it's so interesting to think about the five senses of what we currently have and what we're not picking up. They say 95 of what's happening we're not aware of. Our five senses don't pick up, up. And that world of what's not picked up by our senses, if you can tap into that and you can start to be aware and control that, you have a superpower that's unmatched.

Yeah. How did it most impact you and change the way you lead, the way you parent, the way you show up as a husband, the way you handle pressure, like, what were those key shifts for you?

I think the biggest thing is I softened. Softened tremendously. Instead of being so harsh and rigid, you know, with the kids. Doesn't mean I still don't get frustrated doesn't mean I still don't feel it. But I have a moment where I have a, like a. Okay, let's just chill out for a second here before I respond. You know, just that little delayed time for me to get myself versus fly off the handle because the kids are fighting and leave screaming for his life, you know, because my 13 year old's got him in a headlock, you know, so like that kind of stuff or in business just being able to intuitively feel are we aligned energy wise here. And if we're not, I don't go into detail on why we're not going to work together. I just don't go, you know, so that I think is. And, and I'll say too like the vision of where Granite Towers Equity Group is going, I could see it really clearly and I'm certain, like there's no one could tell me anything else. I just know here. And when I'm that certain, it just changes how I behave, changes how I go through the world, changes how I communicate, changes the goals we're after. And so that right there alone, plus the softness, plus the clarity on this world that we're not picking up with our five senses, it's all made a huge, huge impact.

It's so profound and it's so real. And think when those experiences and other modalities for healing and inner work through therapy, plant medicine, breath work, meditation, all the things that we've been covering, it's when you are able to have softness and you're able to release all of the pressure building up inside of you and able to have empathy for everyone around you and see them from their shoes and be able to put yourself in their shoes and understand they're just another being that has their own pain, wants, needs, fears, desires. And I'm not going to take it so personally that it's an attack on me or how you treat yourself right is like, I'm not going to be so hard on myself and put so much pressure on myself to perform and to be perfect into all these things. And you can have compassion like for me, it helped open up compassion for myself and others and real love for myself and others and for God that I had resistance towards all of that. Before this experience I was, I hate myself, I hate God, I hate these people, I hate all of this stuff. Even though I didn't verbalize that. But I did when I realized I really did inside and I was ignoring a lot of that pain and the resistance. But yeah, that then allows. It allowed me to be able to now still have the big dreams, still want to create amazing things in my life and. But there was no longer an attachment to the outcome. Like I am happy only when I get this or I am worthy only when I achieve this. Right. It was just now I'm aligned and I'm grounded and I have the, the shift from the scarcity and the fear to the abundance in creation mindset. And so now I can go after these big dreams. But the pressure doesn't seem so great because I don't have that tension anymore and the resistance towards it. And I welcome the failures now or the challenging times ahead because I'm not afraid of anything anymore and I don't need anything from anybody. And I love myself and I love the people that I serve around me and I can identify more clearly signal versus noise and alignment versus misalignment and make, just like you said, those clarity of decisions because as, as leaders and entrepreneurs and you know, as a parent and a husband, I'm, I'm not a wife or a parent yet. But we have to make decisions all day, every day, non stop. And that can wear you out so much if you're not aligned and grounded and understand the signals that we're receiving from source that are clear. Right. And so when we're clear in ourselves, in our own body, then we can be clear about these decisions and it becomes much easier to make the decisions and much easier to get through the pain that's going to present itself to us as we continue to grow.

Yeah, I don't think I could have said it better myself. I think you nailed it. That is a very good synopsis, authentic synopsis of, you know, similarities of how my experience was. And it doesn't mean that's how everyone's going to be, but it's, it's worth looking into and at least researching before you just say, no, I'm out.

Right? Yeah. Because we only know what we know and nothing more. And so we're only limited by the confounds of our own mind and beliefs and, and fears and, and all the things. So yeah, I think it's, it's beautiful. It's definitely beautiful. And now I'm really grateful that now we, we're in a society where we have the resources to be exposed to these transformational options, you know, to continue to create and to continue to grow. Because back in the day it was just pure survival. And we still have in our genetics this survival instinct of everything's out to kill me and get me and I have to just survive and protect myself. But we have an abundant world now, at least in the United States where we're so fortunate and blessed to live. We have this abundant world and we can now, okay, we don't need to survive like we're going to be okay. We're always going to have a roof over our head. We have people that love us. We're good, high integrity people. You know, even if we lost everything and we went bankrupt tomorrow, we're still going to be okay. We have our liquid knowledge and our skills and we have our relationships in our life to help us grow. But then it just comes down to how do we elevate our consciousness, how do we push humanity forward and evolve as a species so we're not just repeating the same thing over and over. And that's where Dr. Gabor Mate talks about generational trauma and how you're kind of born with these instincts and society is traumatic and all these things, but if we can have the awareness of it and then lean into some of these tools and just be open minded to the resources and the experiences out there that can help us live and create a better life, then why would we not explore?

Yeah, I love it. I think of it as like awakening, waking up a little bit, being more aware of the things that you were unaware of. They're there, but they are there. They are affecting your life. So if you can become aware of them and you can learn to manipulate them for a really clear outcome, you're looking to create, you're gonna be able to create anything much more efficiently.

I love it. Then what's, what is next for granite towers that you're so, yeah, clearly confident in, aligned with?

You know, it's not, it's nothing of a sprint. It's, it's. With Eos, we're really clear on a 10 year target or 3 year target or 1 year target. And then building rocks in reverse. I think it's just the, the beauty of, of adding solid assets that are in a cash flow position that meet our criteria one at a time for many, many years to come. I see myself, I'm 41, I, I'd love to do this till I'm 80. It's kind of my 40 year goal. And I think about what could I do in 40 years if we hit our 10 year target, which we've now realized is, is probably pretty thin for what we could realistically do. What could you do with the next decade? If you dial it in, what could you do with the next decade? What could you do with the next decade. And by the time I'm 80 years old, what kind of impact could we have? You know, I really love and admire Paul Hutchinson's, you know, focus on child trafficking. And I, I think he's a committed human being to that single goal the rest of his life. And I could see us working closely with him and, and partnering potentially with them as we scale our company and, you know, doing something that is the single most profound positive thing I think we could do as far as helping children.

Yeah, yeah. I have a couple of friends who are very involved in the war against child trafficking and the stories and the things that I've seen and heard, it's just so unreal. And so I'm getting involved in that, that commitment to help change and save lives on that side of things too. So it's awesome to live for something bigger than yourself and to make a positive impact on the universe and the lives of others. Like, I don't think there's any greater fulfillment than that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing I'm really clear on is I can see that buying more stuff or accumulating more wealth and accumulating another home won't bring me the happiness that I'm really looking for. Yeah, it'll do a little bit and it does a little bit and then you get kind of bored of it and then it's the next and the next and the next. And so I think the personal growth piece mixed with impacting children's lives will give me the most sustained love and connection as I, as I age and grow. So we'll monitor and continue to adjust as, as new data comes in.

Yeah. And then I'm going to do rapid fire here in a second. But this last final question for those I know you have a triple net investment fund as well for car washes on triple net leases. And that's a great tax advantage for people. And then you do your multifamily funds too. So for investors who are out there, if they want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you?

Yeah, yeah, it's just go to granitetowersequitygroup.com it's just www.granitetowersequitygroup.Com contact us and myself or someone on our team can get on with you and you know, learn about your investing goals are the fund we have is a 506 seed, so we do not need a pre existing relationship. So if you know, you're looking for depreciation and cash flow before Year end there is a opportunity there and we'll keep bringing those out as. As time allows.

Awesome. And they are amazing. Amazing. Sponsors would put my my own money behind you guys and want to explore your funds personally too, so. And thank you for being a great client at HB Capital.

Thank you.

And super proud of everything that you've built and can't wait to see what you continue to build.

Yeah. Thanks to Jeff for bringing us in.

Yeah, Jeff. Jeff. Uncle Big Dog over here. Okay. Rapid fire school of hard knock style. How old were you and became a millionaire?

28.

What line of business are you in?

Real estate.

Did you ever think growing up that you what you've created would be possible?

No.

What has been the biggest driving factor of your success throughout your career?

Being relentless and having just absolutely sheer discipline to work through problems.

What's the one truth about success you wish you would have learned earlier?

It's not that hard. It's really a set of habits, and once you have them, it's guaranteed.

What's the greatest piece of advice you've ever heard or received?

Do your best and forget the rest.

Did you ever have anybody who doubted you?

Oh, yeah, tons.

Who is your hero and why?

You can cut this. My mom and my dad. Yeah.

Why?

Just. The support. When I was a little kid, they gave me a foundation to believe that I could do anything.

And that's everything?

Yep.

And if you had to, if you were going to die tomorrow and I was going to die tomorrow and you had to leave one lesson to the younger generation, what would it be?

Do what you love and go hard.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Yeah.