How He's $1.2 BILLION in Debt and Getting Richer - Robert Kiyosaki

How much debt are you in?

1.2 billion. Debt is money. You know, my poor dad always says get out of debt. Dave Ramsey says, get out of debt. My rich dad says only lazy people use their own money. Your job is to borrow money. We're always buying real estate because we use debt. We pay no tax legally.

And you talk about in the rich dad principles that good debt puts money in your pocket. You use other people's money to create more value essentially and to create cash flow and financial freedom. I haven't found anything else out there that has the same tax strategies and legal loopholes and have those infinite returns like you talk about. It's pretty amazing.

My job is to invest with no money. A lot of times we'll buy, you know, like 300 unit apartment house. We have a million dollars in it. We get the net operating income up, we fix it up, increase the rents and all this stuff. Noi is high enough, the banker will give us our million dollars back. So guess what? When that million dollars comes back to us, we're now infinite because none of our money is in it.

I was talking to my friend William, we were talking about impossible goals. We were talking about like a 10 year goal and whatever. And he goes, have you thought about your thousand year goal? That's legacy. Called it the Jesus effect. Like Jesus lives on long after he's gone. You've changed the way the world sees money and that'll continue to live on.

Why are poor people poor? Because they use poor words. You know, word became flesh and dwelt amongst us from the Bible. And when a person says I can't afford it or I can't do that, they see themselves poorly.

And where your attention goes, your energy flows. And so if your attention is on what you don't want, I don't want to be poor, I don't want to have a bad relationship, I don't want to be sick. Then all you're going to get is all of those things.

What you don't want.

What do you think are the top attributes of a incredible salesperson like Elon Musk or Donald Trump? Like what do you think that edge is to be able to sell anything. We are back in the house for round two. I had Robert on the Hannah Hammond show over six months ago now as my very first guest and I'm just so happy to have you back and can't wait to get hear more about your life story and your insights on the economy and entrepreneurship, real estate, investing, all the things. And we'll talk A little bit about the tariffs and, and what's going on in the economy right now as well. So thank you so much for coming back on the show.

Well, thank you. And congratulations.

Thank you.

She was very successful.

Thank you. I know our first. Our first video had over 2 million views.

Yeah. That's incredible.

Yeah, just from the, the. All the views, the clips and the short form and stuff. But, you know, the one that really blew up. Blew up was the savers or losers concept. I know you. You know, saving cash is throwing money down the drain. Yeah, yeah, but awesome. So first, I want to start into your story about Vietnam. I mean, you fought. And a lot of people don't know this, but you actually went and fought for our country twice in Vietnam, and you've even gone down in. In your. You were a fighter pilot, and you even gone down, and I mean, you've had to take lives, you've had to fight for your life, and you've had to fight for the freedom of the country and protect the lives of all the men around you. So I just really want to dive into how that shaped you as a man because that was some of your earliest experiences in adulthood and how that helped you evolve as a leader and. And, you know, just to ultimately change the world, which now you've impacted over 40 million lives with the cop, with your book sales of Rich Dad, Poor dad, and you're still traveling the world. Every time I text you, you're in like some other country teaching the cash flow game, and you're just truly a legend. So take us back to Vietnam and. And some of learn there.

Well, the reason I want to talk to you about it is because my friend Rollo Tomasi, he wrote the book the Rational Male, and I think every man and woman should read it because I'm always talking to you because you have beauty, you have sex appeal, you're rich, and you have power. And what happens for women, the more successful you get, the fewer men, whereas for a guy, you more successfully get more women. You know what I mean? Because men aren't picky. And what Rollo says that women have hypergamy, which means that I think that's the word. Women only go up, but men are horse. They'll take anything they can get.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that's why I keep talking to you. I said because you've got beauty, brain, sex, money, power. But according to Rollo in his book Rational Male, fewer men. And that's my concern, because when we were talking about what should we talk about, it was I noticed men getting more effeminate. They're less men. I mean, just men. And a lot of men I see are kind of swishy, if you know what I mean. I'm not against it, but. And that's why I was talking about Marine Corps. And as a kid growing up in Hawaii, not that I was swishy, but I didn't have any core strength, you know, I mean, drive or stamina and all that stuff. I was a surfer kid cutting school, doing all that flunking it at school. So by the time I was 15, I knew I was in trouble, that if I didn't shape up and get some core strength, discipline, you call it, I was in trouble. So I applied. Plus, I flunked out of school twice because I can't write now. I've just, you know, best selling books. But anyway, so I wrote to my congressman and he gave me Naval U.S. naval Academy in Annapolis. Not gave me, but he says, you're authorized to go there. Plus U.S. marine Academy at Kings Point, New York. I think that's what really kind of shaped me up was I went to military school, not some swissy swishy college like the University of Hawaii. And that was a direction, you know, we all have. We all make changes in our life's paths. So going the military route was the best thing I could have done because I was just a swishy little surfer boy. Yeah, you know, not much drive, not much direction, no stamina, no goals.

Who pushed you to go to military school? Was it you or was it your rich dad or who influenced.

No, something. We all have this guiding system inside. I knew I was in trouble. You know, I flunked out of high school when I was 15 because I can't write. And then when I was. When I was 18, I flunked out of school because I can't write. And, you know, I mean, I knew I was in trouble because kids were passing me and all this. I couldn't get a date.

And, you know, I mean, and look at you now.

Well, one of the most horrible stories I had was, you know, we went to this dance when first. When you first going out with girls, and it was this old gym and all the boys were lined up on one side of the wall, were probably about 15 years old, and all the girls on the other side. This is old school 50s, you know, and the boys would not cross the gym before to ask a girl. So finally the teacher was so exasperated, okay, you girls can ask boys. And so all the girls came rushing across I was the only guy sitting on the wall by myself.

Oh, my God.

Oh, it. You talk about wake up calls in life, you know, and that was a big one. I said, boy, if I don't shake puppet, I'm not going to have any girlfriends. You know, all the stuff that's important to you when you're 15.

Yeah.

So that's what, you know, that's kind of what shaped me up. And I said, I better start doing something besides just surfing and cutting school.

Interesting. And was that when you were like 17, right?

Around 15 to 17, I was completely worthless, you know.

Yeah.

But I was also at that time trying to. We're all trying to find our own directions in life. And When I was 15, I asked my teacher, I said, when we gonna study money? And the teacher says, the love of money is the root of all evil. I said, well, it may be evil to you, but I'd like to have some. Because the school I went to in elementary school were all rich kids. For some reason. Across the street were the poor kids. I mean, they're across the street. So the rich kids. School I went to and I said, how come they're rich and I'm poor? So my father, poor dad was a PhD from Stanford, near Northwestern, University of Chicago. Smart guy. He says, well, son, if you stay in school, you'll be rich. I said, dad, you're a PhD, you're still poor.

Yeah.

So our schools don't teach us anything about money. So all of this was shaping me, if you know what I mean. We're talking about in the car driving up here is we start as young people, start finding directions in life. So I realized if I didn't get rich, I wasn't go get laid.

Yeah, it's important.

And if I didn't get some core strength and some discipline, I'd be this little swishy little boy running around the place. So.

But at this point, you had already been learning from your rich dad, right?

I started at 10. Yes.

Okay. But you still decided to go the military route versus trying to just forget school and start entrepreneurship. What kind of guided you to that direction even though you started learning about the importance of making money?

Well, I hate to say this. At University Hawaii, if you can fog a mirror, they'll let you in. My grades were so bad, University Hawaii rejected me.

Wow.

If you can't get universal, why, it means you're a corpse or something, you know?

Yeah.

So I had a lot of this. And we all have it in life, you know, Some things are good Some things are bad. But I realized I was in trouble. And if I didn't make changes in me, I was in bigger trouble. So my rich dad was a guy that started, you know, so I started teaching me a 10, playing Monopoly, you know, four greenhouses, 1031 red hotels. I own hotels today and 15,000 rental properties and make a lot of money and pay no tax, you know, I love it. That's my game. But that's why I like you, because I'm. But when I met you said, well, you're the same path, except you're a beautiful woman. And that's when, you know, I talked about a while ago, things that Joel Polish introduced me to you. I said, your path is different than mine because the more powerful, richer and successful you get, fewer men do what I mean. And for me, men are horse. They'll take anything.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. I struggle with that for sure, it being. I mean. And I know I will continue to. So.

Yeah, but don't change. You know what I mean?

No, I don't. I couldn't, you know that. Well, thank you. So what was fighting in Vietnam like for you? Like, were you. What were. What are the greatest lessons that you learned from fighting in Vietnam?

Well, I went twice. You know, I went in 1966 when I was 18 years old and I was a midshipman. Midshipman's a student officer on board a ship. And we sailed into Cam Ranh Bay. I was carrying bombs, 500, 750 and thousand pound bombs to Vietnam. And some 18 years old, you know, walking along, you know, the bombs are going off, people are dying, and all the. And so I went up to this bar, little sandy bar, and I said. I asked the girl, I said, what does a Viet Cong look like? And she says, they're sitting right there. So I look over these two guys about my age, right? Was it three of them? That's right, three of them. I walk up to them and I say, how you guys doing? And they didn't speak English, I didn't speak Vietnamese. But, you know, two or three beers later, you can converse fairly well. And so I want to find out why they were communists. Why were they Marxist? Because at the academy, I went to U.S. merchant Marine Academy. We studied Marxism. I said, why are we studying Marxism? He says, because communists are our enemy. So I could now interview the enemy, if you know what I mean. We're just kids. We're kids. And finally, what it came down to, they wanted what you and I have. Capitalism. They wanted the Ability to use their own work and efforts to attain a better life. And I don't know how he got to there, drinking, you know, beer and all this stuff. They just want the same things, you know.

Yeah.

And so that was 19. 1966. And then I said, I'll be back. And they said, we'll be waiting. So I came back in 72 as a Marine pilot, and I flew the helicopter gunship off a carrier. I don't know if I ever shot those guys, but I still remember them. I said, you know, we're just young men. Yeah. And we're just told to kill the other side. I was telling you about the poem by Alfred Lord Tennyson. Ours is not to question why, ours is but to do or die. And so we just. I just flew into battle and I was killing guys who were trying to kill me. It's nuts. It's nuts. And I went down three times. Not to enemy fire, but I went down for engine failures and aircraft failures and all this stuff. But the Marine Corps trained us so well, you know, to fly a helicopter without an engine or without a tail rotor or failures. So all of that shaped me, if you know what I mean. Because you don't. We can't expect everything to go well. So if you're prepared for bad times, there's always good times. And it was great training, great discipline. I loved it. And I want. You know, I see men today. I mean, a lot of my friends, kids, they're a little lightweight, if you know what I mean. So that's why I was talking to you. How do you find a man with. Some of these guys are going the other way. You know, they're. They want to compete with girls, track members or something.

Yeah, yeah. Fight in the girl sports.

So how is it. Let me ask you this question. How is it being a woman who is ambitious and gorgeous and making a lot of money, how do you find men?

Well, I'm single, so there's your answer. It's. It's challenging. You know, I. I'm still trying to figure that out. And it's. You know, I have a lot of. I have a lot of masculine energy that I have to bring down because a man, especially an alpha, powerful men.

You have drive.

Yeah.

I love ambition. You have goals, which I love.

But. But men also have the desire to be, you know, Tarzan. Yeah, yeah. They want to be like. They want to have a feminine woman at the same time as somebody that contributes itself. So I've actually found that a lot of alpha men, which is usually what I am around. So that's the only sample size I really know. But a lot of those types of men, they like more of the traditional wife, like the feminine, the. The soft, the nurturing. And I, I always kind of had to not be that to. To like, survive in. In my own world. And so I have to. I have to balance that out personally. But, you know, I'm so focused on building businesses and building an empire. It's just like I. I'm, like, I'm not looking type thing, but I don't really know anybody that is. Would be like, that's the perfect partner for me. I haven't really met that person. It's. It's challenging.

Well, can I want to thank Joe Pollard, because when he introduced me to you, I'm going, you've got it on the outside, but more importantly, got it on the inside.

Thank you.

Now that's. In today's masculine, feminine world. Makes it harder for you. For me, it's. For me, the more successful I get, more women, which is nice, you know, but for women, I feel for you, you know?

Yeah. Well, and then as I get older, too, I mean, I'm 29, so I have a couple of years of shelf life in me, but I, you know, I'm around. I'm around men and their. Their 40s and 50s is, you know, the majority of the men around me, and they want a young. They would. They have money and they have freedom, and they want a young, pretty girl that, you know, and I don't blame them. So I know as I. As I continue to age, but that's where it has to become more. It has to be so much deeper than just. It's. It can't be transactional, you know, And I think so many relationships these days are very transactional. And it's. It breaks my heart, really, because I want a partner that is. Truly helps me be the best version of myself and vice versa. And it's not something of just like, oh, you're a trophy or you're a status symbol or you're a safety blanket. It's something deeper than that. And that's what I want.

Definitely be a trophy. Yeah, but you wouldn't. You wouldn't allow yourself to be that.

No. Right.

So when we're talking about what we talk about this show, we talk about, you know, sex, money and power is a good combination, especially for men, but for women, it's another story. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. Yeah, we talk. We talk a lot about that when we, when we spend time together. So I mean, and you even said that was a driving factor for you even from high school. I mean, I think it's humanity, right? As a man wants to be chosen by a woman and wants to be, be able to have their pick out there.

I tell you, when I was sitting on that gym wall and all the, all the guys were ass except me, that was one of those wake up calls, you know, you go, you know, you're in trouble. You know what I mean? I'm in trouble.

And that was the driving force to ultimately cause you to do something.

Well, caused me to ask questions. And so my poor dad said, ah, don't worry, you know, get your PhD and you'll be fine. My rich dad said, and this is what I was talking to you about. I said, I want to be an entrepreneur. My dad wanted me to become a, you know, I was a pilot. He's go fly for the airlines. I said, I'm through flying. I loved it, but I'm through. And I asked, want to ask my rich dad, you know, my best friend's father said, how do I be an entrepreneur? He says, you don't have the skills. I went, what? He says, the skills to be an entrepreneur are different than an employee. Well, like a pilot is a different skill set than an entrepreneur, you know, I mean, they're completely different. So I said, so what's the first skill set? He says, you have to be able to sell. I went, oh no. And the reason I say that was in my family, poor dad's family, salesmen were scum. My dad was actually a Marxist. A good man, but a Marxist believes in the abolition of private property taxation and labor unions. You've studied, Mark? I had to study Marx at the academy. And so you know, Marx's abolition of private property. Workers of the world unite, which is labor unions and taxes are essential for the spread of communism. That was my poor dad. And my rich dad didn't pay any taxes. So I'm rich dad had a lot of property, My poor dad had none. So you can tell a person by what they do more than what they say. So I'm studying with my rich dad how to acquire real estate. So I says, you can be an entrepreneur on number one skill is to sell. I went, oh no, I'm about 24 years old now, getting out of the Marine Corps, goes, I don't want to sell. So my rich dad looks at me, says, how's your sex life? I said, non existent. He says, because you can't sell.

Wow.

And then the second thing is, you have to learn to raise money. You can be an entrepreneur. And, you know, like, that was just terrifying. I was a Marine pilot who came back. I was happy to be alive. Lost a lot of friends out there, just happy to be alive. But now I have to learn how to raise capital. So that's why I took. I got a job with Xerox because of the best sales training. And then I got. And I went to take courses in real estate so I could learn how to use debt to finance properties. Which is what you do.

Yep.

So it's skills that make you rich, not your degrees.

And then. So you went to Xerox, you got the sales training, and then you were successful in that, but then you decided to get into entrepreneurship.

You started like, you have to be able to sell to be an entrepreneur.

Right.

When I. When I meet people who are like, employees, they can't sell or they can't sell enough to, you know, cover the rent and, you know, the more employees they have, the more you gotta sell. And then you have to raise capital to acquire property and so forth like this. So they're just skill sets. But most people don't have them and they become the academic left. You know, this is my friend Trump over here. They hate him because, boy, can he sell. You know what I mean? Is he a tough guy, too? And, you know, I mean, he and Elon are tough guys.

Oh, yeah. Oh, deal makers.

And, you know, I mean, Elon Musk there was. First thing that Trump comes in, Biden left those astronauts spinning in space. And Trump gets into office, says, hey, Elon, get those astronauts down. So Elon sends his own rocket up to pick him up.

Crazy.

He didn't send Uber, he sent his own rocket. I mean, those guys are studs.

I know. I can't believe it.

Billionaires, both of them.

Yeah, Yeah. I don't even. What is Elon's net worth at now? Like 100 and something? Billion or 300? I don't even know. I can't keep up. It changes so much. But.

But they're tough guys.

Yeah, they're tough.

What they're doing now with Doge, you know, D O G E Department, government efficiency. They're pissing off a lot of people.

Yep.

And then Trump's going to shut down the Department of Education because it's Marxist. You know, most school teachers are Marxist. Good people, but they're Marxist and they're poor. And so they want to kill Trump and. And Elon now.

So What? Well, we'll get more into that in a little bit, but what do you think are the top attributes of a incredible salesperson like Elon Musk or Donald Trump? Like what. What do you think that edge is to. To be able to sell anything?

Well, it's a skill set, you know, I mean, it's the reason I took zero. I interviewed two companies. This is in 74, long before you were born. It was. IBM, had good, good sales training, and so did Xerox. And then Xerox flew me from Hawaii to Leesburg, Virginia. And they lock you in a room like this, and they have cameras on you, and they train you to sell. So you're pitching the deal, you know how to buy a copy or whatever you're selling. And then they would replay the camera. You did this, you did this, you did this, you did this. It was unbelievable training, you know? So when people say, how do I get sales skills? I said, well, one way is join a network marketing company like Amway or something like that, because they'll train you to sell. No, I don't want to sell. I don't want to sell. Well, then you're probably an employee the rest of your life.

Yep.

Not an entrepreneur.

Yep. You taught me that. 3. Three main skills is sales, public speaking, and capital raising. Yeah. And then you finished Xerox, you learned how to sell, and then you started your own company, which was a nylon core wallet.

Yeah. Well, the thing was, I met. The other thing is, what makes you rich are your friends. So, you know, like my. I met my best friend at Xerox, and this boy could sell. He was a Mormon missionary.

Wow.

And we're. He's like. He looks like Richard Gere, you know, extremely handsome guy. And he didn't have his mba. I didn't have my mba. So the guy was. The recruiter is hiring us. He says. So he says to me, you don't have an mba. What makes it that you can sell? I said, hey, I've been driving a helicopter gunship against lma. I got. You know, people are shooting at me all day long. I can do that. I can sell. He goes, you're hired. He asked my friend Larry, so, what makes you can sell? He goes. And Larry was. Larry's from Phoenix, and he was assigned to Northern Ireland. And he says, I have the highest conversion rate of Catholics to Mormonism in the Mormon Church. If I can convert a Catholic to mark Mormonism, I can sell you. So you're hired. And that's what it takes.

Yeah. What. How did that shift into entrepreneurship? Was your first business that you had, the wallet business, Was that a failure or success?

Well, it was. We. We failed and succeeded. But, you know, Larry and I became the best of friends. He just sold his business for 2 billion, you know, so he became a billionaire.

My God.

Beat me to it. We pushed each other along. You have to have good friends. And so when we made millions together, we achieved a million. And we did it through real estate, you know, not through. We have to invest our money constantly. So we're practicing raising money, investing in real estate. So we made million together, but he beat me to a billion. But your friends are crucial. So if your friends are all employees, I don't give you much hope, you know, because that's who you are. You are. You know, you are your friends. And so that's an indicator. And if you don't like your friends, you better change, you know, make some changes.

Oh, it's so important. I mean, who you str. That was the biggest shift in me when my life started to exponentially improve was.

Everything changes, right?

Yep. Yeah. You're the sum of the. You're the average. This. What is it? You're the average of the five people that you spend the most time with.

Well, look who introduces me to you. Yeah. Joe Polish. I mean, that guy would sell fish to an eskimo or some 80.

Yeah, fish to an Eskimo. Yeah. He is amazing. Joe is so talented. And that's. I mean, that's why I spend all my time with you and. And Joe and stuff like that. And Joe. Yep. And that type of circle, because it inspired. It's so amazing because when you surround yourself from people who are grand thinkers, you know, like you and Donald Trump and Elon Musk and like those. I mean, and so much in between. But real, true leaders, it makes. What I've learned is that it allows me to see how small I'm thinking. And I think I'm thinking big.

Yes.

But I realize I'm not. And so when I'm around people like you, I'm like, oh, my God, there is so many more levels to this game. And not just business, but relationships, spirituality. Like every area of life that you could possibly be in, there is so many more levels that you don't know if you're only surrounding yourself by a peer group that only thinks to a certain ceiling.

Right?

Yeah.

When I meet somebody who tells me they have a 401k and they have job security, you know, it's fine. You know, not that I'm not going to be their friend, but we don't have much in common. You know, I don't have a 401k, but I don't need the money either. You know, I create my own assets, so. And my friends are all like that. So that's good.

Yeah.

You are your friends. You are what you spend your time on doing. My friends and I study a lot. And then what you spend your money on.

Yeah, being a constant student of life. I mean, you are always sending me training, you know, what's going on in the economy and these insights on certain this and that. And I'm always doing it too. Every time you call me, I'm at a conference or a mastermind or a seminar. And we're just a constant student of life and always learning. And you share that about your. Your ESBI quadrant is cash flow quadrant. Your cash flow quadrant is everybody that once you stop learning, you stop growing. And I think that we're either growing or we're dying.

And not only that is like, recently I had to let go of my company because the fight we had in the company was they didn't want to study. I said, how can you not study? We don't want to study. We don't want to study. Just send us our paychecks. I can't go up against that mindset. You know, I'm not here to force somebody to be what they're not wanting to be. But unfortunately, the company was dying because the internal wasn't growing. Plus my wife and I got divorced, which was that my employees got caught between that, which is a bad thing. Was toxic. So the good thing about we just let everything go. I just create a whole nother system. I'm making more money starting with the company, and I want to just start another company. It's not like, big deal. I don't have a job, you know, start another company. So I call my team up, start another company. We're out making more money. It's fun. It's a game, you know?

Yeah. What. What were some of the key lessons you learned from your first business? And how did you take those lessons and then make a better business after that?

Well, the reason you must start a business is you can't learn something. You'll make mistakes. And that's what I don't like about school teachers, they tell you make mistakes, you're stupid. But how humans learns by making mistakes. So like a baby learns to walk by falling down, you know, and if the baby was in school, the teacher would. Stupid kid. Stupid kid. You can't walk. Well, how's the kid going to walk if you keep punishing him for falling down? You know, and that's what schools do. But that's the academic mindset. The people that don't like Trump, they're employee types. They got good job security, they got a 401k, and they got a steady paycheck. That's what they want. Different value. Nothing wrong with a different value system. So my first business was a nylon and Velcro surfer wallet business. And I actually started that business at the Academy. And the reason I was at the academy, I was in school in New York, is we would take leather wallets with us and they'd rot because we're always in the water. And I was a sailor and rower and all this stuff. So we used to get old sales, you know, scrap sales, and we'd sew wallets and put Velcro on them. And one day I showed that to somebody, said, could I want one of those? And that's how I started.

Yeah.

So we started sewing our own wallets and all this. And then I placed an order in Taiwan, you know, for all these wallets and all this. But then I had to raise capital to pay for the wallets because you can't get them in unless you pay for them. So I had two partners, and they couldn't raise money. John and Stan. They couldn't raise money. So I raised $100,000, and Stan ran off with the money. That was my first business. And I should have known something. Stan was a weak man, you know, he was. He like. You know, I don't see Dennis the Menace anymore, but Dennis Menace's father, you know, this skinny, scrawny guy with glasses, you know, but he wasn't a strong man. And that's why, you know, I'm very cautious. I'm not against guys wanting to be gay or they want to dance to a hula. But you gotta be strong.

Yeah.

And he was so weak. He needed the money so bad because we're operating without money. He ran off with it. And I went. So I had to pay. That was a hundred thousand dollars, which was a lot of money back then. So I had to pay it all back, pay my investors back. That was a learning. That was the biggest mistake. I went, be careful who your partners are. It's like. It's like a marriage, you know?

Yeah.

But your business partners, if they're weak people, you're in trouble, too. So I'm very cognizant of who I invest with. But what kind of people are they?

How do you. Because that's so important and you've really aligned yourself with some long term partners and, and advisors, you know, from Ken McElroy on the Real estate side to Tom Wheelwright on the CPA and accounting side. How do you vet. Because I've been through that multiple times now where I have a lot of trust or faith or I believe in them or I'm very clear and I think that they're going to be the same. And then turns out six months in when you're already married and it's too late to, to, to turn back, you lose it all or you realize who this person really is. How have you vetted who your partners are and like what do you look for in a good business partner advisor that you're working with?

Well, a lot of it's intuition and sense, you know, but also the reputation. So I do my market research. But another thing is I ask them what sport they played. So a lot of times, you know, a golfer is an E, S, B, they're S's.

Interesting.

And I was a rugby player. We're B's, we're team players. I rode, we're a team eight man, team heavyweight, you know, so if you can lead a team, you generally become the head of the company. So I kind of went, what sport did you play? What did you do? You know, just having a beer, drinking with them. Just like those Viet Cong.

Yeah.

You know, what do you guys want? You know, you get a sense of them. So Kenny McElroy and I, he's the smartest realist. He has his own podcast, you know, and he wrote a book called, he has three books out on real estate, ABCs, ABCs of real estate and all this. But our gig when I met him, the reason I fell in love with him, he's a tiny guy, you know, he's so fun. He is, he's funny as hell. He says the job is to not use your money. And so what we, what we, so philosophically we aligned. So what I mean by that, we go for the infinite return. So I showed you my, you know, my old age home behind tar bells on 32nd and Camelback. My job is to invest with no money. It's just you get, you get good enough so that you don't need money in a deal. So a lot of times we'll buy, you know like a 300 unit apartment house. We'll fix it up, get the net, no Y up and that operating income up and we get that high enough, we go back to the bank and we refinance the building. So let's say we have a million dollars in it. We get the net operating income up, we fix it up, increase the rents and all this stuff. Noi is high enough, the banker will give us our million dollars back. So guess what? When that million dollars comes back to us, we're now infinite because none of our money is in it. And not only that, when that money comes back to us because it's debt, we borrowed it off the building, it's tax free. I mean, it's just this game, you know what I mean? And so that's the better you get, the more we want to play games. Just be legal, honest and tell the truth, you know, that's all I ask. But a lot of people cut corners and they do stupid things. So Kenny and I have most of our buildings where infinite returns. We have no money in it. It's pouring cash flow. And with the cash flow, since it's debt money, I don't pay tax on it. And then I legally. That's what Tom Wheelwright does. He keeps me out of trouble, out of jail.

Yeah.

And I buy gold, silver, and bitcoin. So I invest in real money. Gold, silver, bitcoin.

And that's why I love real estate so much. I haven't found anything else out there that has the same tax strategies and legal loopholes to be able to re. To compound your wealth and your cash flow with, you know, without paying tax. It's. It's pretty. And have those infinite returns like you talk about, it's pretty amazing. And. And then you found the right partners where you can do that on a very large scale. Find the good deals, have the good operations, have the good exit strategy, whether it's a refinance or a 1031 exchange to continue to defer taxes. And then you can take your money and then go invest it elsewhere. So you're not doing all the nitty gritty operations of finding these properties and managing the crews and all that stuff. Kenny gets to enjoy that part. Right. But.

Well, Kenny. The reason I like Kenny was his property management. The hardest thing about real estate is the management. And he said he is one of the biggest property managers around and that's his skill set. So I'm looking for people with different skill sets I don't have. That's a team sport. And it's is. The other thing too, is Tom Wheelwright, who's my accountant, and Kenny and the rest of my John McGregor and all that. Every Thursday, we studied together still every Thursday morning, 7:30.

Wow.

So that was kind of blew my company about. Because our employees didn't want to study and going here we are, multi millionaires, they're employees, they don't want to study. I'm going. But that's a value system. I mean, they're entitled to their values, but I don't know how. You cannot study. So that's right. You're always in seminars and I'm always sending you stuff. I'm coming across. Look at this, look at this, look at this. Because YouTube's just magnificent. They got, got some flakes on it, but they got some really smart guys on YouTube, you know, so we study them like right now, this coming Thursday, this is April 2025. Next Thursday, we're going to study what Trump's putting in his tariffs. And it's really interesting because the tariffs are killing China and that's not good. So we're talking about, are we going to war next? Because that was my background to military school and I studied how we get into wars. So I'm a little concerned now because I already fought, you know, in Vietnam. America has lost every war since Vietnam. We lost, we lost Vietnam, we left Afghanistan, we lost Iraq. And Trump wants to turn Gaza into a beach town.

Well, so let's talk about that. You know, there's been a lot of turmoil. There's a lot of volatility. There's a lot of diversion of thinking going on right now. You know, half the world or half the country at least is thinking one thing's going to happen, the other half is thinking another thing's going to happen, which is the indicator of a diverted yield curve, which shows a lot of confusion in the economy. So, you know, there's tariffs and then there's not tariffs and then there's pauses and then there's, there's some back and forth going on. And obviously we've the yield curve inverted a couple years ago, which is usually the indicator over the next, whatever, 24 months or something, there's going to be a recession. You've been warning of the everything crash for a long time. Yeah. This book here in 2002. Yeah. Talk to us about.

I said why? I said in Rich Dad's Prophecy, which came out in 2002. I said, why? The biggest stock market crash in history was still coming and we've had a lot of crashes up to then, then was 2008. But the thing that we're talking about driving over here, being a student of history. The reason there's going to be a war is it starts with what's called a currency war. And a currency war is like Japan or China or America will devalue their currency. So if I can make the dollar weaker, I can sell more products to China until lowers their value of their yuan, and then they can sell more products to America. So that's a currency war. The tariff war is a trade war. So it goes currency war, trade war, kinetic war, shooting war. And he goes, oh, how do you know that? Well, you look at what happened between America and England. So England was the primary power way back in 1700. So 1773, there was a tariff war was called the Boston Tea party. And after the Boston Tea party, where America says, we're not going to pay your taxes, 1776 was the revolutionary war. So we're on path to do the same thing again. So I sit here and I go, that's why I'm concerned, because our, you know, our military is DEI or die, whatever they call it. But there are a bunch of swish, swish buckets up there. We're not ready to fight. And like I said, when I was in Vietnam, I meet the Vietnamese. One, most frightening things Hannah was. I was a pilot flying. And there was a dmz, a demilitarized zone between North Vietnam and South Vietnam. And there was a city called Quang Tri. And we were trying or doing our best to stop the NVA at Quang Tri. And to my horror, you know, to this day, I still can see it. We fought and fought and fought, but the North Vietnamese wanted to win more than we did. So they crossed at Quang Tri across a demilitarized zone. Our Vietnamese, the South Vietnamese, turned and ran. And that's why they didn't stop until they took the embassy in 1975. So I got in trouble. I'm like. I was a carrier pilot. You know the saddest thing about being a carrier pilot, I said, your friends don't come home. They get shot down, you don't see them again. So I'm on the carrier and I asked my commanding officer, I said, colonel, how come their Vietnamese fight harder than our Vietnamese? And that's what I sense. I don't. I think Americans are soft. You know, I think the other guys want to win more than we do because that's what it comes down to. So I look at. We have a. You have. You have a currency war, tariff war, shooting war.

And are you. So right now we're in a tariff war, Are we Also in a currency war.

Yeah, yeah, there's always currency wars. You always want to devalue your currency so you can sell more to somebody else.

Yeah.

So if you develop, if you develop, you make the dollar weaker. We can sell more products to China or Germany. But right now Germany is collapsing and Japan's collapsing. America is the biggest debtor nation in world history and China is going to kick our butts. So that's. I don't want to say this, but I was in Okinawa at the Marine Corps air station I was stationed at during Vietnam. And we went into the room, it was a two star general there, said, gentlemen, everything here is confidential.

This was just a few weeks ago.

Yeah, a few weeks ago. And I'm looking at the charts. There was Taiwan, they had all the battle sites ready. And then in Palau was the island chain America's putting over the earth satellite, I mean, radar and runways for big jets. And they moved marine battalions up there. So this is now. Yeah, we're preparing for it.

What do you think the repercussions would be to our daily life in America as entrepreneurs, investors and just American citizens if we go to war?

I hate to think it's because, you know, even during Vietnam, there was always what they called a nuclear option. Can we drop a nuclear bomb on people? And that's why, you know, everybody's working to make sure Iran doesn't get the bomb and all this too. So we're a global tension and we're attention inside America with the radical left, you know, those, the Harvard professors saying screw you to Trump and all this. So we're at civil war inside our country. And then you have the poverty increasing. You know, when you look at the homelessness, I still can't figure it out. How come homelessness is spreading all over the world? You know, and then they say as well, because of drugs and mental illness. True. But when I studied money, when you print money, you know, the fake US, 1971, Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard and we started printing money. When you print fake money, okay, two things happen. The rich get richer and the poor middle class get poor. So how does that happen? So when you print fake money, I can, my goal goes up, my housing goes up, I have, I have oil wells, price of oil goes up. But when you print fake money, chickens go up, food goes up, milk goes up, eggs go up. So the rich get richer when you print fake money due to inflation of the asset, but the poor middle class get poorer because of inflation of just life support. You know, Food and energy and housing and just stuff. So I look at America and we were once the richest country on earth. Now we're the biggest debtor nation. I think it's a $37 trillion plus 250 trillion in off balance sheet liabilities like Medicare, Social Security, pensions and all this. So we're in bad shape. And so that's where this rich Dad's prophecy in 2002. And I said this crash is still coming. It's now, it started today, it's crashing. And the crash goes in the bond market, not the stock market. So today the Chinese and the Japanese and people are selling us Treasuries. We're over, we're finished. Because the bond market is like 10 or 20 times bigger than the stock market. Why don't they teach us at school?

Why?

Because teachers want to tell you how boys can be girls and run on the track team.

And so before I go on that tangent, so I mean for somebody wanting to prepare and you tweet about this too is like, if you think it's going to be a soft landing, think again. Because it's probably not going to be a soft landing. It's probably going to be a pretty hard landing. And instead of panicking, you have to be prepared. So what can we all do to prepare for. I mean you talk about a possible depression again and we were just talking about this. The Last depression lasted 25 years.

Yeah.

So what do we do to Prepare?

Well, it's 25 years because a crash hit in 1929. The stock market was 381. The Dow, it took till 1954, 20, 25 years to get to 381 again. So I'm just going by that. But that's why I said there's a currency war, there's a trade war and a shooting war. So there's a currency war right now. And so the US dollar is fake. It's fake money they printed since 1971 became the US dollar's debt. That's US Treasuries and savings bonds and all that garbage. I don't touch it. But anyway, so that's why I say buy. Today the biggest bargain is silver. See, gold went past $3,000 all time high. Bitcoin I think is at $84,000. And silver is still 60% below its all time high. So silver is the biggest bargain. It's used in every ev. It's used in solar, it's using electrical. The Tomahawk missiles carry I think 5 ounces of silver in it. And all this. So silver is disappearing. Gold stays around, but silver is being consumed. And I think it's only about $35 today. So I think everybody in the world can afford 35 bucks to buy one silver coin. But will they do that? No, they'll save the $35. So let's say you had this. You have this silver coin that you pay $35 for, or you have the $35. In 10 years, this will be probably $70. So it takes 70 of those dollars and they call that inflation. It's not. Inflation is the purchasing power of your dollars going down. And so that's why the poor middle class get wiped out. And I'll say it again, why don't those damn school teachers teach that? What's wrong with those guys? You know, that's why Trump is setting shutting down the Department of Education. I think it's a good thing.

Do you think it's possible to. I mean, you've set out to change the way the world sees money and you've made a 40, 50 million person impact on that. But education still don't teach what you teach in financial literacy. Do you think it's possible to change that?

No, because they're Marxists and they're not bad people. Get me wrong, My poor dad was Marxist. My rich dad was a capitalist. Again, a Marxist. Believers in labor unions, the workers of the world unite. My poor dad had the teachers union. Marxists believe in taxation. A graduate income tax is essential for the spread of communism. One more thing. What Stalin said is that it's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. So look at Arizona here today, at Katie Hobbs. She was supposed to be watching the ballots, but she was. I think she was whatever she was. But she got elected. Nobody. She was watching who counted the votes. And so we're so corrupt now, then they use lawfare against, you know, they sue him for all this stuff. And those are quite. Our Supreme Court is used against us now. And the FBI is corrupt. So something's really rotten in Denmark. You know what I mean? It's rotten here. So that's why I just. As a private citizen, I'm going to protect me first my family. But I would save silver first. You know, a silver coin is 35 bucks. If you can't afford that, you got bigger problems.

So what? I haven't checked the stock market in a few days, but we had a couple pretty big pullbacks pretty recently, I think. What was it down, like 20%? Yeah, over a couple days, which Is pretty, pretty big. How? I mean, obviously you're talking about the everything crash. We're seeing softening in prices in real estate, especially in the commercial market. Among certain asset classes, like office, you know, multifamily has some higher vacancies, storage has some higher vacancies, but different asset classes are stronger than others. And of course, it's regionally specific as well. But gold is still at all time highs. Silver, you said, is a good discount. Bitcoin's pulled back over 20%, plus or minus. What? Like if we're going to go into a depression and we're going to continue to see everything crash, what do you see as like a timeline for this happening? I know you can't. Nobody has a magic ball, but do you see, do you feel like we're just entering it or do you feel like things are going to come down a lot more in pricing or. Because I've heard some economists say we're going to come down a lot more. And then I've heard other people say we're going to be bounced back and higher by the end of the year. So where do you fall into your opinion of if you did have a crystal ball?

When I wrote this book, I was very happy. I said, you know, when it crashes, you look at the real estate market like in, you know, the biltmore Circle, there's 10 houses for sale.

Yeah.

Nothing's moving. So that's good for the younger generation. But for my generation of boomers, you know, they say your house is your biggest asset. That's the biggest mistake. I said, your house is not an asset. In rich dad, poor dad, house is a big liability. So the baby boomers, my generation, in 1974, there was an act called ERISA, Employee Employee Retirement Income Security Act. It's called the 401k. And so my generation is the first generation that has a 401k. My father's generation had a defined benefit plan. So the boomers are in serious trouble, serious trouble. Because, you know, the stock market's down, let's say 30%, but gold's up 30%. And why don't they teach us at school? Because gold is real money, as JP Morgan says, you know, gold is money, everything else is debt, credit. And so this whole economy worldwide is floating on debt. China's in serious trouble. And so that's why I watched said, are we going to another war? America has not won a war since Vietnam, Afghanistan, Ukraine. I mean, you know, that guy Biden, what a criminal he was. He was in there Doing deals with the Ukrainians and all this stuff. And, you know, and Trump, I know it's a good friend of mine, he's very anti war, you know, he's trying to stop it right now.

Do you think that tariffs are. What's your opinion of the tariffs? Do you think it's a smart move as fast as they're implementing them or, or. No.

Well, tariffs attacks and it's, It's. I don't know what, you know, Donald hasn't called me, but I look at it and I go, you see what's happening in China because of the terrorists? All these factories shut down, so hundreds of thousands of people are unemployed, plus their real estate, Real estate markets collapsing in China and their debts going through the roof. The same thing's happening in Europe. So this is the first time in history you have the three powers like you read. There was. Japan was the major power. Japan is debt to GDP, I think like almost 200%, something like that. Germany's in serious trouble because they went green and their electricity got too expensive, so they can't produce cars. So their cost of production went too high because the greenies, you know, the green New scam took over and they went liberal, commie, pinko. And in America, you know, we have biggest debtor nation in the world. And, you know, Biden put that, what, Inflation Reduction Act. It was a spending bill. He spent more money. And Trump's got Doge, who's hated. Trump is hated because he and Musk are trying to cut down, get that debt down. But Biden adds it up, and all the liberals love him and he can be a liberal and all this stuff. I know people hate Trump, but he's this very smart man, you know, good. You know, we're all two books together.

Yeah.

So he's a good man. His kids, his two boys, Don Jr. And Eric, very good friends of mine. Very, very good kids. You know, like a story I tell. We were hunters, so we've hunted together on this private island in Hawaii. There's no running water, no toilets. And you get to know some guys pretty closely when you're sleeping on the bug sands. And all this stuff. We have to eat. What we kill, they don't. Nothing. They don't. They don't. They don't cry, they don't whimper, and all this stuff. We're hunting in upstate New York and went past this little restaurant and we walked in and there's a little roadside stand. The place was full of illegals in the, you know, Washington and all this Both Don and Eric went in the back and shook all their hands. They're good young men.

Yeah.

You look at Hunter Biden. The FBI loses his laptop and he, he has to get a pardon from his father. What kind of family was the Biden family? And look at Kamala. Oh, my God. Yeah, the borders are, never got to the border. You know, they open, Trump put a wall up, Biden took it down, illegal, streamed across.

Yeah, that's another thing. You know, I, we do flips and stuff. My best friend's a big flipper in town and she said, oh, like I haven't heard from, you know, so and so from her crew. And then she found out that they're getting deported. So it's just another, another layer of volatility, I guess. If we're having tariffs and the, the price of construction going up and then if our labor cost goes up, I think overall in the long term, I'm sure there's a good plan that's far above my pay grade of how I understand how it all works. But there's, there's a lot of disruption in the, the interim because there's a lot of change happening. And. Yeah. So how do people best. If, how do people best prepare for the opportunities that are coming in the market as far as these discounts on real estate, these discounts on bitcoin and stocks and, you know, how do we proceed? With caution. My audience is entrepreneurs, real estate investors. Some of them are complete entrepreneurs. Some of them are solo solopreneurs, Some of them are high level doctors or executives that invest in real estate. How do you recommend they prepare to take advantage of the opportunities in today's market? And, you know, proceed with caution, but don't be fearful and miss out on the opportunity because we were just over here driving over here and you're like, most people can't sleep because they're losing money. I can't sleep because I'm so excited. Right. So excited. So, yeah, what's your advice on that, on how to best take advantage of the opportunities in the market?

Well, number one, figure out who you are. If you're an employee, you know, your self talk is going, I need job security, I need a steady paycheck and all that. It's a trap. If you're an s, you know, es self employed, your, your mantra is you want it done right, do it by yourself. On the B side, which is big business, 500 employees or more. And I stands for insider. I'm an insider. So I had to make a decision when I was getting out of the Marine Corps. I wanted to go on the B and the I side. My mom and dad want to be ens. So you've got to decide what you want to be when you grow up, you know, Know. But the other thing too is who you take advice from. You know, I was blessed. I had a poor dad, I had a rich dad. One's a Marxist, one's a capitalist, good man. But my rich dad was telling me what I had to study. And my rich, my poor dad was also get your PhD and fly for United Airlines. And then my rich dad was teaching me how not to pay taxes. And my rich, my poor dad saying, well, you gotta pay taxes. Then he'd also say, well, the rich are stealing from the poor. It's not true. You know who's stealing from the poor are guys like Obama and Biden. You know what Obama did? He pushed through that student loan program. And I was, I was so Obama's Hawaii. You know, I was so pissed when they did that because the student loan program is meant for poor kids. See the rich kids, like my friends, like Kenny's kids and all, they go to college, the parents pay for them. But if you're a poor middle class kid there right now, student loan debts, $1.6 trillion. Okay, now doesn't sound like much, but if you, if you paid back a dollar a minute, it would take you 32,000 years to pay off a trillion dollars.

Oh my God.

So these kids are coming out now. The poor kids are 1.6 trillion in debt. And it's the worst kind of debt because you can't bankrupt out of it. It's non forgivable debt. Plus it's got a high interest rate and it accumulates, it goes retroactive. So Obama basically effed the poor kids from poor families and they all got a college degree. Now why did Obama do that? Because the teachers union wants to make more money. So Harvard, Stanford and all that. If we get student loan debt, we can charge more money to the kids. They're the biggest. I'm not Republican or Democrat, but I watch what a person does more than what they say. Again, you know, Trump put a wall up, Biden takes it down. You know, Obama puts kids in student loan debt. The other thing that Obama started was dei, diversity, equity, inclusion. The reason he did that, because he's a black guy. And it actually came out with they call that affirmative action in the 60s. And so when they, when, when he got elected, there's not that many black people. I mean There are plenty, but there's not that. So Obama created DEI diversity, equity, inclusion, so that they could include more people. So if you were from Venezuela and you crossed the border illegally, said oh, you're oppressed by the white guys, you know, so they needed to increase their numbers so it couldn't just be for blacks, it had to be somebody who was non white male. That's Marxism. That's pure. You create victims and a class structure. That's pure Marxism. So I studied Marxism at the academy. I'm going, wow, so why don't our school teach us this? Why don't they, why don't they read the Communist Manifesto? You know, why don't we study money? But we, we teach Keynesian economics in school and Keynesian is pretty close to Marxism. But they don't teach you that because our school teachers are Marxists. Yeah, at the heart, abolition of private property. The rich rip people off, you know, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, the bourgeoisie of the capitalists, proletariat, the working class. So they create victims out there.

Do you think it's for the next generation, for millennials and Gen Z out there? I think there's even another generation now. Do you think it's. And with AI and all the different technology that's coming out, do you think it's a waste of time to go to traditional school and do you think it should be better to be self taught in entrepreneurship and or what? What's your stance on that?

Well, it depends on what you want to learn. Like if I want to fly for the airlines, you know, good, good way to do that is go fly for the military, you know, and if you're going to be a doctor, well then you should study chemistry and all those other of things. So it depends on what your ambitions are. But what's happening to young kids today, they, they come out with this, a degree in homosexual tendencies or whatever it is, and they got student loan debt and nobody wants to hire them because they're not worth anything. They've studied a subject that's not valuable. So so many kids are going to school learning a subject that nobody values. There's no use for it, you know what I mean? And then you're loaded with debt and you go, well I have a college degree. What's it in? Well, it's underwater basket weaving. Well that's really important, you know. So again it goes to skill sets. What skills do you want, what experience you want and who are your teachers? Those are the main things. When I was In Sunday school, and I was like 7 years old, and the teacher asked, you know, she goes, why were the wise men wise? And I raised my hand and said, because we're rich. She goes, oh, no, because, you know, church, they hate rich guys. Yeah, the Methodist church. Oh, God. But anyway, she says, why do you say they were rich? I said, when they. When they came to see Jesus, they came with gold. That's rich. Expensive. Frankincense and myrrh. That stuff's expensive. And my little school teacher looked at me. She goes, that's not it. But she had a good answer. Why were they rich? She says, they sought the best teacher. I'm so not pumping Christianity. You know, you can study Buddhism and Hinduism what you want, but they're looking for Christ. And so that's what I like about YouTube. There's a lot of flakes on the thing, but there's some really smart people on YouTube and they teach for free. It's all this DEI woke crap and all this stuff, and victim and white guys are the problem. That's the biggest crap. YouTube's free.

Yeah. It's amazing. And that's why I do the show, because I wanted something like this. I wish I had something like this growing up.

To share yours.

Yep. And it's. It's amazing. I mean, all. I had your book, thank God. But I can't imagine being raised even before that when we had such little limited resources. Like, you probably didn't have a lot of resources to learn a bunch of different topics pretty quickly other than books right now.

I had mentors. Yeah, I've had a number of rich dads. So first with my rich dad, and I want to learn how to take companies public. Like, I don't own shots. I don't own stocks, but I sell stocks. So I've taken three companies public now through IPOs. So I took a company public on Toronto Stock Exchange and then NASDAQ and then New York Stock Exchange.

Wow.

So your goals change as a B and D, I, E, S, B, I. I said, well, what do you want to do with your life? I said, I want to take companies public through an ipo. That's what Musk does and all that. You know, Musk borrowed all that money. He already paid all that money back. And they're attacking him because he borrowed all this money from the government. He's already paid it back with interest. And so our academics is the other the worst people. My poor dad used to have labor union meetings, teachers union meetings at our house. I go, I Want to puke? They didn't talk about quality of education. The teachers were bitching that they didn't get paid enough. They wanted more time off and benefits. That's what they wanted. It wasn't about education.

What companies have you taken public?

All gold companies.

Gold companies.

Well, next one's going to be a. I can't remember the name of it now, but it's A for the evs. It's. It's a. It's another mineral. And you know, I also invest in cattle. I can see, touch and feel cattle. I don't want stocks. I sell stocks, but I own the company. Yeah, selling shelled and I own oil wells. I want commodities, you know, stuff that are real. But it's over time. I just saw, you know, I find a. I find friends like my friends in the waigu cattle business. I said, why? Why go cattle? He says, because rich people buy it. You see, no matter how bad the economy gets, the rich will always have money.

Yeah.

So I said, why? Why goo? He says, well, it's expensive. It's a good. But he doesn't kill the cattle.

What does he do? He just raises them and sells them.

He gets the balls and he sells her semen.

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's like a stud service that's common in the horse business.

Yeah, I want to do the same thing. I want to be a stud, you know?

Yeah. Sell your semen.

So there's so many ways you can make money as capitalism. But when they say, you know, go to school, get a job and invest in the stock market, in stocks, bonds, mutual funds and ETFs. And I don't save dollars, I save gold, silver, bitcoin.

So in these companies that you're taking public or you're invested in on the. You're selling shares, you're owner of the company. Are you getting in like pre IPO into these opportunities?

I'm the I. I stands for insider. E, S, B, I. I'm an insider at all with Kenny's deals, Ken McElroy. I'm an insider. If you buy a stock bonded mutual fund, you're an outsider.

Yeah.

Not for me. Yeah, I'm a capitalist.

Well, and you do it the right way because you're an insider, you get the best opportunities, you get the first look, you get the lion's share and you don't have to operate, but you.

Also take the biggest risk, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

But again, I'm invited in there because I can raise capital.

Yeah.

You know, they, they wouldn't invite my Employees in there because they can't do anything. And if I have a, if a master's degree in underwater basket weaving, they don't need you. But I got a master's degree. And what so I tell most young people, take a course in bookkeeping, you know, go to the local junior college or something. Take a course in bookkeeping because you gotta keep your numbers in order. Not that hard.

Yeah. So let's talk about debt. Obviously, I have a lending company. Yes. For real estate and a fund that I haven't officially really started growing or anything, but I have the fund filed with the sec. So you always talk about how much debt are you in?

1.2 billion.

$1.2 billion in debt. And why?

Because debt is money. You know, my rich dad used to say to me, he says, you know, my poor dad always says, get out of debt. Dave Ramsey says, get out of debt. My rich dad says, only lazy people use their own money. Your job is to borrow money. Another thing is that real estate, the purpose of buying real estate, the purpose of being an entrepreneur is to buy the real estate. So that's why I have Rich dad as a company of other companies. But we're always buying real estate because we use debt and we pay no tax legally.

Yeah.

That's what Tom Wheelwright Tax free wealth. Tax free wealth. Tom Wheelwright get the book.

I actually talked to his team a couple weeks ago about my taxes. Yeah, they're. They're awesome.

They're sharp, aren't they?

Yeah. So $1.2 billion in debt, and it's good debt. And you talk about in the rich dad principles, that good debt puts money in your pocket. You use other people's money to create more value, essentially and to create cash flow and financial freedom. Bad debt takes money out of your pocket, like a primary residence. You're paying a mortgage every single month, but it's not paying you.

Right?

Right. You may get appreciation over the long run, but if you, your philosophy is, if you would have saved that money and invested into an asset, that actually puts money in your pocket instead of a liability.

Correct.

As renting your home is no different than paying a mortgage. If you're using that money to invest in assets.

And the key to real estate, multifamily jobs. If jobs are increasing, real estate goes up. If right now millions of people being fired, like Washington D.C. people are losing their jobs, real estate goes down.

So how. Because that's my biggest fear, right. Is I'm a real estate investor and an entrepreneur and I happen to be in the business of real estate as well as invested it, I still have the fear of underwriting assets or investment opportunities in unpredictable times, which all times are unpredictable technically because we don't really know what's going to happen at any point. We think our pro forma is predicting, but we really don't know. So how do you. Because good debt can also get upside down. For instance, right now, there's some people that are upside down who bought multifamily or other commercial properties at very low cap rates, so paid a high valuation for them at very low interest rates on very short term fixed debt. So how do you have $1.2 billion in debt and still be able to, like, sleep well at night and know that your debt isn't ever going to go underwater? Like, how have you been able to make those right investment decisions without knowing that rates are going to double pretty much overnight like they did?

Well, that's why I say, when I ask people, what sport did you play? If they're team sports, most entrepreneurs have to have a good team. So, like, Kenny has a fabulous team. You know, I talk to him all the time and all this. And so. And Kenny's property management. The key to real estate, you know, is property management. So if they manage it well and keep it filled, keep it, you know, nice and all this stuff, it works. So for Kenny and I, our job is I just gave him 2 million, 2.75 million two months ago. You know, but I'm going to get that money back through debt. I'm 100% in debt. That's called an infinite return. Now, do I recommend it? Please don't do that. You know, don't do this at home unless you practice a lot. But then it goes back to my rich dad. He says, if you're going to be rich, you have to learn how to sell, you have to learn how to use debt, and you have to be able to raise capital.

Yeah. So ultimately it comes back to the strength of the operator, which is Kenny. And he has the team, he has the resources, he has the knowledge, the experience and the character to where he's getting in at such a low basis or entry point that even if a crazy catastrophic type event like interest rates doubling very rapidly, he already has a. He got it at a very good basis where he has room or he has the team in place to be able to recapitalize the asset, raise more money, and ultimately not ever go underwater.

Well, my richness is your profits made when you buy. So he's, I've been with Kenny. It was a San Antonio project. The reason it was good, it was next to a big hospital, but the owner had let the thing run down. So because it was next to a hospital, there was always employees for. It's a big, big, big insurance company hospital. So we went in there and, you know, we found the. There was a toilet sitting in front of the fireplace, and all the wire had been ripped out, and it was a mess. I look at it like this. And Kenny looked at his builder, his builder says, no problem, you know, I mean, I can fix this. So we took that, built that up, refi. Got the noi net operating income up, refi out, got all my money back as debt, pay no tax, legally. So as long as the asset is strong, that's like gold. If you have real physical gold, it's strong, you know. You know what its value is day to day, same as silver. Bitcoin, I love, you know, because it's so easy to get rich with bitcoin. For my generation was real estate.

Yeah.

For your generation, it's bitcoin, you know.

Do you think for. For my generation, like, what's the asset allocation? Right. If I have a million dollars, what's the asset allocation of? What do I keep as cash? What do I invest in? Bitcoin, gold, silver? What do I invest in real estate? What do I invest back into my own education and myself? What would you recommend as far as asset allocation? If you have whatever amount of money?

Well, it depends on what the asset.

Is at that moment right now.

Well, sometimes when Kenny came up with his two projects. Three projects. So I took 2.75 million. That was three projects. Million. Million. $750,000. So I cashed in my gold and I. I gave it to Kenny as a down payment, knowing I'm going to get my money back, I'm going to buy my gold back.

Yeah.

So I know my. I have my. I know my cash flow. That's why board game is called cash flow. It's the only game that teaches you, you know, finance.

Yeah.

Better than Monopoly. But it's just a matter of training your brain. And after a while, you go, why. Why isn't everybody doing this? You know, like right now with commercial real estate, I think there's 32 Empire State Buildings empty.

No way.

Yeah. Office buildings.

Wow.

So that happened with COVID You know, people start coming to work.

You're talking about in Manhattan all around. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Equivalent. But that's why Trump says you have to go to work. I mean, What a novel idea. You have to go back to work.

All these office buildings need to be filled.

Well, my company, they didn't want to come to work.

Yeah.

So it got worse and worse and worse and worse. I said, why am I paying you then? You know, so unfortunately, good people and all that, but I didn't need them move them on. They're good people. They just had different attitude.

Yeah. How, how many people did you have at your organization at one, at your peak?

Well, it depends on what business. But the risk tag company was about 12 people.

12. So you always ran pretty, pretty lean.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, the reason is, is because with the ESB and I, most of my employees were with Amazon or with bookstores.

Yeah.

You know, so when I develop a book, it pumps out through thousands of bookstores across the world and through Amazon.

That's nice. I want to, I always, I'm thinking about that too, is like, parts of me want to build a billion dollar company. Right. That's just because I'm, I'm me. I want to create a billion dollars worth of value and have a billion dollar organization. And then other parts of me, like, this morning I'm in an EOS meeting and I'm going through KPIs and metrics and all this stuff, and I'm like, this is the part I hate about entrepreneurship and thinking about my team and how to motivate my team and lead my team. And that's what a great leader does. Right. But then it's that ebb and flow of like, we talk about this. I was telling you about impossible goals after I read Ben Hardy's new book, the Science of Scaling, and we talked about what's the real point of the goal? And the. You told me that a goal is like a rock that you drop in water. And it's not the rock that really is important. It's the ripples in the water. It's the impact. And I literally have been thinking about it. Hasn't been out of my head since you told that to me. And I'm like, because the billion dollars isn't what matters. It has nothing to do. It's what is the impact, Ripple effect, The ripple effect that I can create from whether it's a billion or a hundred million or what, Any amount of money, a million, any, any goal that somebody could possibly have for their business or their life. What is the impact that it's creating? And so I've been thinking about that as like, what is the real goal that matters and what is the impact that's created from that goal. So like what kind of impact do I want to have? And can you share that story about. You said that this is the impact when you were. Where were you in. In Vietnam area or a couple weeks ago when you were touring the war sites and someone came up to you on an island with all the kids and had your cash flow game. Can you share that story? Yeah.

This is in Palau. It's a. Palau is a mountaintop that's surrounded by water. Yeah. And they sold the. But it's interesting. They look like little mountains or little islands and they're all. They're cute, you know. And so this One island has 33 people on it. And this woman comes up to me says, I have your cash flow board game. I am teaching my island friends how to be, you know, how to take care of their money. That was the best thing ever happened to me. I just almost cried, you know, I almost cried because I created the game to teach what our schools do not teach. And the cash flow game came out in 96. I couldn't sell it, so that's why I want Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So I became more famous for Rich Dad, Poor dad. But the purpose was to sell the game. And so that's the ripple effect. I'm on this little island in Palau, 33 people. This one cash flow came out. There went. Touches my heart, you know, because my mission is to elevate the financial well being of Hawai', I, of humanity. And I'm fighting the school systems all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that really hit home, it really struck a chord with me is like it's not the 40 million books that matters, it's the ripple effect. And those, that family, that woman coming up to you on an island of 33 people and you having changed her life. And I think that is what's so profound. It's like, what kind of impact do you want to have? And you're still going, I mean you're, you've been doing this for decades and decades and decades and you're still traveling the world teaching people financial intelligence and how to have financial freedom so they don't have to be born in the. Into the doctrine of go to school, get a job, pay your bills and.

Invest in the stock market.

Yeah.

I mean you can, you can if you want, but I like real estate and I use debt more and I don't want to pay taxes.

Yeah.

I'm not a communist. That's why.

What was rock bottom for you in your life. Looking back, I know you've probably had many moments, but I really want to dive into. Like what. Where was this moment in your life where you considered giving up? Or like, where was this rock bottom for you?

Well, it's like I said, when those guys ran off with my money, Stanley and John, and I was in. So I, I was still selling. So I went to Chicago and I was on the shores of Lake Michigan, on Chicago, at a Howard Johnson's, and life went out. I just said, what have I done? You know, I've lost. I lost my. My father's house was behind that hundred thousand. I was going to lose my father's house. And I was the worst, you know, and my best friend again, Larry, the guy at the Mormon who could sell Catholics, he was in New York City because his brother was John Lennon in Beatlemania. So I still remember lying in this hotel room. I didn't, I couldn't. I didn't ask him to get out of the. They had money to pay the hotel bill. And I just called Larry. He goes, what's the matter with you? What's the matter with you? I was. My life was draining out life force. He says, where you at? And I said, I'm at the Howard Johnson. So I was dying. He said, wait. So a couple hours later, he flies over from New York, walks into my room and he goes, what's the matter? I said, I've lost my father's money, lost my father's house. I don't know how I'm going to pay it back and all this stuff. And Larry goes, oh, you poor thing, you're so, so sad. And he stood back and kicked me with all his might. Geez, get the up and get back to work. It was the best thing. I said, okay, figure out how you're going to fix this. So it turned out better because I had to figure out how I was going to pay all that money back and all this. So I just invented another product and went out to sell. It's the skills that make you rich, not money.

And his ass kicking was all you needed to get. Get it together.

That's a friend.

Yeah.

So, you know, he and I pushed each other along for years. We're still. I was born on April 8th, he's.

April 9th and I'm April 10th. Yeah, yeah. I still have to meet Larry. Yeah, yeah. He's out in the Big island or Honolulu.

No, no, he's on. He's in LA and Hollywood where he belongs to. Oh yeah, he's A character, though.

Yeah. So what, what did that look like for you coming out of that? I mean, what business venture did you go into next? Like, when did you have your big break where you finally were like, I got this, you know. I mean.

Yeah, well, it was, you know, when you start looking again. So I was back in Honolulu. I don't know how I got home. I didn't have any money. And I saw this 98 rock. It was a radio station. And there every bumper sticker, every Volkswagen surfer kid at 98 Rock on it. I said, what is that thing? So I want to. What is this? He said, oh, that's the hottest rock and roll station going. So it was right across the street in downtown Honolulu. I go in there and knock on the door, this guy, Brian Bealer. I said, what is this 98 Rock? He says, he had all. Brian was a marketing genius. He says, rock and roll is the biggest thing. I said, what? Back then it was disco, you know, the Bee Gees and all that stuff.

Yeah.

He says, rock and roll is coming back. So I asked Brian, I said, can I use your logo? 98 Rock, really hot, you know. I started silk screening wallets and hats with 98 rock on it. And so I was paying my way out of it, barely, you know. And one day this guy came and knocked on my door as I'm making my little 98 rock hats and wallets. He goes, he says, I represent the Police. You know, the rock band the Police. He says, would you make products for us? So immediately I was in rock and roll. So I did Duran Duran, the Police, Van Halen, Boy George, Ted Nugent. And I was in the rock and roll business.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, I was going to concerts all over the country, selling my rock and roll, my hats, wallets and bags and stuff like this. And that's how I got out.

And that made money.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, MTV came at the same time. So all the, you know, the gods lined up. So I make my little 98 rock wallets and stuff like this. It was red, black and yacht white, you know. And this guy from, he's from God. I freaking name him now. But he, he represented the Police. He says, would you. This new band coming out to call the Police. I said, wow. So there was every move sheet.

How'd you shift from that to becoming the best selling author in the world?

I just started writing a book. I created the board, the board game Cash Flow. I'm a product guy, Hard asset.

Yeah.

And. And the game wouldn't sell. So I just said, I better write a book and sell the game distribution channel. So I wrote the book. Rich dad, poor dad, and my friend owned a car wash in Austin, Texas. Nobody would buy my book either. The publishers, you know, the book companies said, you know what you're talking about. Your house is not an asset. Savers are losers. You know, I can say all that stuff. Well, so you know what you're talking about. So nobody would buy my book. And so I called my friend in Austin, Texas, Keith Cunningham, and I said, can I put some books in your car wash? I had a thousand of them. He says, we don't sell books and car washes. I said, yeah, I know. That's good. No competition. He says, if it doesn't sell, you're taking them back. I said, I promise. So I put them in there. I put two dozen books in there. They didn't sell. They didn't sell. They didn't sell. And Keith kept calling me. They're not selling. Said, okay, okay. And one day, they're all gone. So I asked Keith, I said, you want to buy more? He goes, no, we don't sell books at car wash. And then about a week later, I got this phone call from Dallas. Hi, my name is Bill Galvin. I said, yeah. He says, I bought your book. I said, I bought all of them. I said, really? He says, how many you. How many more you got? I said, A thousand. Minus 24. He says, I'll take them. I said, who are you? Says, I'm with Amway. And that's how the book took off.

Wow.

Amway put it in their downline and we went international.

Geez. And then you. And then you got a call from Oprah.

Then Oprah called and Trump called and.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

And how old were you when that happened?

I don't know, 25 years ago. So probably 50.

And would you say that was when you, like, really had exponential growth, or were you already doing really well with your other.

No, I was teaching. I was doing other. I was learning how to public speak. Self learning how to teach.

Yeah.

And so I just applied what I taught into my board game.

Keith Cunningham. You're friends with Keith Cunningham? How'd you know him? Or like. Yeah. How'd you guys meet?

I don't even know. I mean, he's like. He's a long, tall Texan, you know?

Yeah.

Do you know him?

No, I just read Big Tall. Right. He's an author.

Yeah.

Yeah, that. That same one. Keith cutting up. Yeah. You talk in Some of your books about your biggest mentor growing up, other than rich dad. But what's his name? Buckminster Fuller.

Yeah.

What's the greatest thing you learned from him?

Buckminster Fuller was. He taught Bucky Fuller was a futuristic. And he made it the geodesic dome. So in 1967, I hitchhiked from New York City to Montreal, Canada, just to see his dome.

You hitchhiked from New York to Montreal?

Yeah. Well, we had no money. I was in college. Wow. So we hitchhiked all this. And I got in this dome. I was going, wow. And a few years later, I meet him and he kicked my ass. He just kicked my ass, you know, he said, what's your life? I was about. I was in a seminar with him in Lake Tahoe. Like you always in seminars. And he was. He was talking about the future of business. And so he's an old. He was about 86 at the time. And he had very thick coke, like gas glasses. And he said, what's your life's purpose? And I said, to make money. Biggest mistake. He screamed, how dare you. He says, what a waste of a mind. He says, anyway, so it came down. He scolded me. It was a week long seminar. I was hurting, you know, he goes, there's about a hundred people in the room. And he's scolding me. This great. The greatest genius on planet Earth. You know, John Denver wrote what One man can do. And that Bucky invent. Bucky affected a lot of people. And he's. But so finally Bucky turned to me and says, why don't you do what God wants done? And I was hurting, you know, because he scolded me. I mean, really, he cut right through me. Just all you want to do is make money for yourself. You want to do what you want to do. That's selfish. Hundreds of people are staring at me, you know.

Yeah.

He says, ask yourself this, what does God want done? Look at that and do it. And so it took me a long time. I was, what does God want done? But you look back, look back upon my history. I was always interested in money. So that's when I developed the cash flow board game and all that.

What did you find out that God wants done?

Financial education.

Impact and change the world. What? Because.

Why doesn't school teach this? Because they're Marxists. I'm a capitalist.

What do you want your legacy to be? Like when someone, when someone thinks of your name or says your name, what do you want your legacy?

Well, it's an interesting question because when you study success, you know, so I was fortunate. Tons of mistakes, losing money and all this stuff and stepping stones, falling down, standing up, achieve success. Then I achieved money. And the ultimate was achieved fame. And fame is power. You know, their money, success and fame are false gods, but I'd rather have them than not have them. So no matter where I go today I have fame. And it's good. I could be famous for doing bad things. But you know that song I'm gonna live forever, I'm gonna learn how to fly. Fame, fame. I listen to that song. I never wanted fame, but I have it. I'm going, wow, it's interesting. And there's another thing says, and when people see me, they will cry. So I was just in Tokyo and I was. Tokyo's in very bad shape because her debt's gone, the yen's gone. And couples would come up to me and cry, say thank you. No, thank you. So that song Fame was kind of playing in the back of my head. I'm going, you know, I didn't want it, but I have it. So money, I mean success, money, fame.

Yeah.

I use it for good things, not, not my own self purpose, you know.

Right.

It's doing what God wants done, not what I want to do.

I was talking to my friend William and Lamb and he, he was talking to me, we were talking about invis impossible goals. And he said we were talking about it like a 10 year goal and whatever. And he goes, have you thought about your thousand year goal? And that was another light bulb for me because he's like, that's legacy.

I'm gonna live forever. I'm gonna learn how to fly.

Yeah. And that's what you've done is you're, you have a thousand year goal. He called it the, the Jesus effect. Like Jesus lives on long after he's gone. And you know, you've, you've changed the way the world sees money and that'll continue to live on. And that, that, I mean, you can't have a good life if you have no money. Right. And so that is some one of the biggest impacts you could possibly have on a society or global, from a global standpoint is helping people have financial freedom.

Yeah. But you know, we talk about when you drop a rock in the water and the ripple effects called precession. So famous procession. I didn't do it for the fame.

Well, it's been amazing to have you on the show again for the second time. And I just, I'm proud of you. Thank you, Robert.

She's always in seminars.

Yeah. I'm just so grateful for you. And it's real, living proof that whatever you possibly could dream of, you can have, because I dreamed of having you in my life. And I never thought I would be able to be so close with you as I am today. So just to wrap up, I just want to finish. If you could go back and see little Robert Kiyosaki as a little boy, what advice would you give him?

Well, when I think about that gym where I was, the dance, and I was the only guy not asked to dance, I was like, I would have said, don't worry, it's going to change.

Yeah.

But it was a good thing that happened to me, if you know what I mean.

Yeah.

So sometimes the worst things that happen to you are good things because it shapes you up. And that's why I went to military school and all that. I said, I've got to get tougher on the inside, stronger, more disciplined. And so that's why military and Marine Corps flying, losing my friends, you know, toughens you up. Watching the North Vietnamese army kick our asses, losing the war, it all builds character, you know. So I go back to Vietnam as a teacher now, you know.

Yeah.

There's no anger.

I love it. Yeah, I know. And that's some of the stuff that we didn't get into is really the. The mindset and some of the belief systems. I guess I'm going to ask you that just because I went down there. But what do you think is the biggest belief system or mindset shift that is different between the rich and the poor and middle class?

Great question. It goes to words, you know, why are poor people poor? Because they use poor words. You know, word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. From the Bible. And when a person says, I can't afford it or I can't do that, you know, they see themselves poorly. So my rich dad forbid me from saying, you can't, I can't afford it. My poor dad said it all the time, I can't afford it. I think I made the money. Think I made the money going poor. Rich dad said, that's why he's poor, because the word becomes flesh. So rich dad taught me to say, how can I afford it? So when I was flat broke, I said, how am I going to get out of here? Because I was so down in a hole, you know, and what's the best thing that happened to me? Because I had to crawl out.

Yep.

A lot of people stay in that hole.

Whether. Whatever you think you are and that's how my dad used to talk to. He would always, you know, what am I made of money, we can't afford it and whatever and your belief system and your subconscious, you attract all of that into your life and where your attention goes, your energy flows. And so if your attention is on what you don't want, I don't want to be poor, I don't want to have a bad relationship, I don't want to be sick then all you're going to get is all of those things.

What you don't want.

Yeah.

And so that's why a question opens your mind so how can I afford it? You know, your mind, your mind goes to work but if you say I can't do that, my shuts down.

Well thank you Robert.

Mind spirit, you know. Thank you.

It's beautiful.

Congratulations on your success. I'm proud of you.

Thank you Robert. I appreciate you. I'm proud of you back.

Thank you.