Mental Health Expert Proves Your Brain Lies and How to Fix It - Bizzie Gold

Welcome back to the Hannah Hammond Show. I am sitting here today with busy gold, who is a mental health disruptor and innovator nationally and she just launched her new book two days ago called your Brain is a filthy Liar. And thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm super excited for you to be here to learn all about your book. And this has a very profound importance and meaning to me because I've been on this healing journey over my whole life, really. But really the past few years of growth and deciding I wasn't going to keep repeating the same patterns I'd always been repeating and just trying to figure out like how that looks. And I'm actually about to do a talk and they're like, okay, well what are the three steps to healing? I'm like, I don't really know how to put it into three steps. So I'm super excited to hear because I know you kind of disrupt and counteract or argue traditional therapy and healing methods and. Yeah. So thanks for being here today.

Thank you so much. Yeah, I've been excited for this for a while. We have a lot of mutual friends. So I've actually kind of followed you in your orbit for a while. So I'm excited that we get to be here right after my book launched.

Me too. I know I was following you before Andy reached out to get on the schedule, the podcast too. So it's really cool. I just think you're awesome and it's nice to meet another female entrepreneur out here doing the thing and making a difference in the world. So.

And I have some insights on to why you've been able to do it, but it's challenging for you to break down the steps. So I will, I'll give some insight to that because I. One of the things that we do in my work with brain pattern mapping is we can understand what childhood inputs generate the output of brain pattern. And I've done a decent amount of work looking at the correlation between brain pattern and career or job placement. And you're obviously an entrepreneur and in general entrepreneurs tend to have a higher level of self awareness and ability to be productively self critical. So that's why one of the reasons that you've been able to see it but now you're like, how did, how did I do it? It just happened because it's actually part of how you were patterned.

That makes a lot of sense. And yeah, that awareness is. And you talk a lot about awareness and we'll get into that. But the awareness I believe and you may believe otherwise, but I believe that was the first step for me to even know that I was repeating the same thing over and over or sabotaging my life or attracting toxic outcomes in my life. Uh, but the awareness itself doesn't fix it. Right? You have to do the work to actually change and rewire your brain. Um, so first, before we dive into the book and some of your strategies and your break method that you teach to help people heal, and you bring a neuroscience and data driven approach to healing versus the traditional let's just talk about it for the next 30 years approach and, and just continue to be in your feelings and not really change anything. So what specific event or incident in your life led you to get into the mental health and healing and neuroscience and psychology space?

I think all of it started in childhood, as it does for many of us. I grew up with a mom who struggled with borderline personality disorder. And for those that are listening or watching that might not know what that is or how it shows up, it typically shows up where there is the experience of feeling targeted by your parent and you're not really sure what the rules or the structure is. And sometimes you step on a landmine and sometimes you don't. So you don't learn how to really learn the rules of how to exist in your world because somebody's so emotionally dysregulated that they could snap on you in a very hateful way at any moment because it's really what's happening in their mind rather than what's unfolding in reality. So that definitely set the stage for me in those early childhood years. And I grew up so aware of the situation that it was hard for me when my mom wouldn't take any ownership. Like, how could you, how could you not see what just happened? And her story would always be so drastically opposite of everybody else. So for many years, I kind of just felt like she was punking me. Like she obviously, she has to know she's just got it. Like, this is gaslighting, right? She's got to know that she's distorting a narrative of something that never actually took place. But it really wasn't until I was watching the movie Fight Club when I was 13. Have you seen the movie Fight Club?

I haven't.

Okay, so in this movie there are two characters. One's played by Brad Pitt, one's played by Ed Norton, and the whole movie you think they are two different people. And then in the very last scene you realize, oh my God, they are one person with split Personality disorder, but they had no idea because their understanding or perception of reality was really segmented and there was no understanding of the whole of the person. And it was the first moment when I'm watching this last scene that I realized many people with mental illness don't realize that they're mentally ill. So all of a sudden, in this one instance, I had simultaneous empathy and compassion for my mom because I realized she wasn't just lying to me on purpose, she really saw things that way. And then, of course, the byproduct of that for the rest of us was very traumatizing. But in that moment, I actually felt empathy for her. I realized she wasn't just trying to mess with me for 13 years of my life, that she actually was really struggling. And in that exact moment, I was set out on a mission. What is self deception? How can it be so all encompassing that we can't see our way out of it? How do we justify it? And what role does society and the system play in keeping us stuck in that restricted perspective? Because we've been in a mental health crisis for millennia and we never seem to take a meaningful bite out of the depth of that crisis. And I have some hypotheses as to why that is, but I think at the core, it's rooted in self deception. My mom couldn't see it any other way because she was patterned by what had happened to her in childhood. And it's like putting on a distorted lens of glass. And that feels real to her, but it doesn't mean that it's objectively true.

Yeah, I know. It's so crazy. And I've been realizing that now that I have awareness and understanding of this space and more of myself and I'm more connected to myself, I can start to see the patterns or the thought process or the validation or the justification of the way my brain thinks things to be true. And, you know, reality isn't as it is. It's as you see it is or as you think it is. And that's so different for everyone. And I felt that same way with my dad. I felt like I would, like, argued with a brick wall. Like, how can you not see this? How could you act this way? And. And he didn't know. I mean, it was just his. His perception of reality and, and his lens. What do you think? Like, let's talk about what is self deception and where does it come from? And I mean, just walk us through some of the. Yeah, I don't know too much about your book or too much in, in this space beyond what I've done. But like, I guess, what is self deception? We'll start with that.

Self deception is when our brain will skew how we're perceiving reality, typically in either a positive or negative way. So an example of negative self deception, your brain's gonna fixate on the risk and it's gonna minimize the potential reward. Because you're an entrepreneur. I would imagine that you probably skew the other way because in general, entrepreneurs tend to focus on the reward and then they are willing to minimize the risk because they're like, oh yeah, why not? Right. Entrepreneurs in general tend to be why not oriented? Rather than why. When you're operating with negative self deception, your brain is very focused on what could go wrong and it tends to paralyze you or at least slow your momentum. When other pattern types experience positive self deception, it can highlight all the rewards and it can minimize the risks in a way that can translate as impulsive, maybe being overly or unrealistically optimistic, naive, where you're jumping and you're taking action and you're telling yourself, I'm going to figure it out as I go along. And you know, from being an entrepreneur myself, a lot of times you figure it out and then sometimes you don't. And either way, you have to still pick up the pieces and keep going. So when people are stuck in a more positive sort of self deception, it often can put you into the field of play. If you look at life like a game, you're sometimes putting yourself onto the field of play without being prepared or without really looking at the proper steps to step out on the field. You're just kind of getting out there and then you're like, oh. And then you can actually put yourself in harm's way. If you take that and translate it to an intimate relationship, for example, positive self deception is what tricks you into believing that somehow this boyfriend is different than this boyfriend. When all of your friends are like, no, Hannah, this person's the same person that you've dated five times, but your brain is gonna focus on the reward. Oh, well, these, these and these things are different. Therefore, this is gonna be great. It's gonna work out totally differently this time. Whereas maybe somebody who tends to struggle with commitment, who holds themselves back, is very slow to commit, they're going more down the negative self deception path where they're focused on what could go wrong. Maybe they're looking at a small, more beige flag behavior and they're looking at it as a red flag. So instead of, like, a little annoyance or something that they don't like, their brain is actually going to escalate it to be this big red flag where you or I might meet them. Be like, they weren't bad. They're great. So the point here with self deception is that the way we perceive reality is not fixed. It's not concrete. And if you look at the world around you, everything is pixels. So if you've ever seen an image that gets pixelated, that's actually what's happening here. And our brain fills in a lot of those gaps. So I'm looking at books, water bottle, blingy ring. My brain could get a little flash of something, and I might not actually even look at the whole image. And my brain's gonna fill in the gaps, I'll see a little edge, and my brain's gonna just decide, this is a water bottle. Even without me sitting there and staring at, like, mapping every single edge, our brain gets accustomed to turning these pixels into things that can be defined between the ages of 2 and 5. So a lot of the ways that we define our perception are coming from that very early childhood perspective. Do you know what priming is?

Mm. Mm.

So a very easy to understand example of priming is if you take a room full of people and you have a yellow backdrop up on the screen, and then you give people a piece of paper, and you're like, can everyone please write down a fruit? What fruit did you think of?

Banana.

Right. So that's usually what happens. Like, 99% of people will say, banana. I didn't tell you that the fruit had to be yellow, but because I just said the word yellow, it's the first thing that's gonna populate. So this is a really simple example of something that actually happens to us all day long, every minute of every day, our brain is looking for these little associations, and it's closing out that gap and turning it from an assumption to a conclusion. And we don't actually know if that's true. But the cool part is there are certain brain pattern types that are more willing to question themselves. There's an awareness that their way might not exactly be the right way, and they want to see the bigger picture. Another way to say this would be they often have more situational awareness. Instead of being so locked into their perspective, they're like, hold on, let me pull back here. What could some alternatives have been? So I don't know about you, but when I was a little kid, I loved watching spy movies and thrillers, and I was Always the person that knew what was gonna happen before it happened. And my dad would be like, God, you ruin everything.

That's funny.

Cause my brain, I, like, just couldn't turn it off. As soon as I'd see little things, my brain would already end that Matrix problem. And I'd know exactly. I know the two different ways this movie could end. And I would likely ruin it for everybody, just like I sadly ruined Fight Club for you today. So I'm sorry about that. So when we do this, these little associations, they actually become the impetus for us to completely destroy our lives. Whether that's positively skewed or negatively skewed. We are assuming things about our world based on perception that are going to take all the possibilities we have in the world of how to behave or how to react, and it all of a sudden starts to constrain them down into this really tiny circle. Because the brain thinks formulaically. If I know what my conclusion is, the behaviors that I can act out to get my way there are very limited. A good example that I tend to act out with podcast hosts to make it make sense. I don't know if you've ever had a friend or a family member who gets mad and throws. Throws things. Have you ever known somebody like that? Okay, so for me, it was my little sister growing up. Anything she would had near her, if she was mad, it would get thrown. One time it was the steak knife at the dinner table. My mom also would, like, throw back cordless phones before we had cell phones. Like, I've seen so many phones shatter in my childhood. If I was that kind of person, which, luckily for you, I'm not at all. Let's say that you and I were having an argument about something and you said something that really upset me or I found offensive, I might grab this water bottle and huck it at you. But obviously I'm not that person. And my style, the choices that I would perceive would be like, ask her a question, try to understand why she said that. You know, maybe try to figure out why her perception and your perception are so out of alignment. But I would never think, grab water bottle and throw it at you, but somebody else would. Their circle of decision making would include throw the bottle. So when we allow these early childhood rules to constrain our choices, it makes people act out behaviors that are very repetitive. Like, chances are unless somebody like that, that has a tendency to throw things or be more physical, does some sort of healing work, that pattern will not just persist, it will get worse every year that they Age because these ruts get deeper.

Yeah. That's so good. And it's.

It.

We. I was just on the phone before we started this interview, and it. Someone said, I, I understand the things in my life, they're not happening to me. They're happening for you. And I said, even better than that. You are designing them.

Yes. That's so good.

That's a hard one. Like, that's a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow because where we have this survival brain, right? And. And we want to point the finger and blame other people and do whatever we can to survive. And we're innately driven by fear and our childhood. We just, like you mentioned, by the time we're five, so many patterns are already so repetitive and locked in. And like the lens in which we see the world and the gaps that our brain is filling in, the things that we look at or the, the experiences that we're having are so deeply wired. And then we, we reinforce that as we grow up. And then by the time we realize we really have a problem is when you hit 25, 30, 35 years old, and you're like, oh, shit, I'm really sabotaging my life. And you could be either the victim of all these things happened in my life and that's the, that's why I am this way, or the person that says, I'm not going to settle for living this way and I can be rewired and I can change the outcome and I can create whatever life that I want, even though it's going to be work and I'm going to have to rewire these things in my, my brain. So it's really cool that you said that. And I just went on a little bit of a tangent and forgot the question that.

I know, it was, it was beautiful. It was awesome.

But so what do you think? How do you have the awareness? I mean, what is this healing process? Because I'm trying to put this into words too. Right. And so would talk about your break method. What is the break method? How is it different than traditional healing? Because healing is kind of a buzzword, like, you know, I'm healing or I have trauma or all these things. And so what does it really. What does healing really mean to you? And how does your method approach it?

Let's start with, do we believe that healing is possible? Like really arriving at that healed state? This is something that I've asked many therapists that I've trained, many doctors that I work with. I think this is something that we've lost as a society, I think there are some elements of this that are partially due to litigation and insurance and things like that. Right. It's a liability to be like, you can be healed, because do we really have control over that in a way that we can quantify with insurance or some sort of liability? So I think there's been this transition away from believing that that arrival is possible. And I think that fundamentally that is something I've always believed in. I've always been able to envision what someone's healed state looks like rather than just this perpetual loop of healing. Because I'm sure you can see on social media that there are a lot of people that talk about healing. But it's very messy, it's very chaotic, it's not linear. And they could be healing for years. I really believe that the path to being healed is actually much more of a straight line and there needs to be data, actually part of that process to get there without it becoming messy and chaotic. So fundamentally, I think as a society, we've lost touch with that idea that you can arrive at a place of being healed. And the foundation of my work is built around something called the source belief spectrum. So if you actually. I can probably. You want me to find the visual so you can see it? Let's see if I can. There aren't too many pictures in here. It's a 702 page not picture book. So everybody get ready. It's not a light read. I have faith that I'm gonna bump into it soon.

I believe in you.

Come on. I think we're getting close. I can feel it. So. Oh, here we go. Okay, so I'm gonna show it to you and then I'll give you a slide that we can project up. Okay, perfect. When you put up the show, so you can see there's a left and a right side and there are shared qualities that exist on the left side and they go up like a scale. So this is like an XY axis. And then there are shared qualities that go down on the right side. So example would be if you start at the center and you start to work your way out to the left, right, hashing out to the left, self trust goes up. So you start to look to yourself as a way to solve the problem rather than look outside of yourself. You start to become more situationally aware. In general, you tend to be more aligned with career and purpose. And intimate relationships can be a bit more of a struggle by comparison. And. And you tend to be very hyper independent. Typically in A way that could actually bother other people. Because I don't know if you experience this, but for people who are not hyper independent, they may interpret that as selfishness or like a lack of trust in them. If you just do everything by yourself, it means that you somehow fundamentally don't trust that I can help you. When the reality is when, when people's brains get patterned to be placed in on this left side, it's really less about other people and more just about how they know how to do things. Right. They know that if I put myself into the position of decision making and I'm solely responsible, I know I can generate a good outcome. But I know that if I start to include other people, my chances of success may go down, as you can imagine. I'll show you right here. So where this black line is, if you were to draw a small square right here, the top 1% of the most successful entrepreneurs, the top 1% of any organization, they're all plotted right there.

Oh, wow.

And there's a reason for that. If you go too far to the left and you have extreme self trust, extreme situational awareness where you are perceiving every single detail in your environment and you're hyper independent and you eventually start to isolate from others, you don't trust others so much that you just act and operate in a silo, eventually you start to become a little bit paranoid. You don't know what, what things to just ignore in your environment and what things to prioritize. So there's a balance here, which is why typically those top entrepreneurs in the middle left, we can see the bigger picture. I'm just slightly to the right of this line right here. I can see the big picture. I'm more of a big picture vision person. But I'm not so situationally focused that I completely miss relational inputs. But I'm also not fixated on relational inputs either. If somebody doesn't like me, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. If somebody's gonna, you know, say stuff about me on Instagram like, it'll, it'll hurt for an hour, but I'm not gonna ruminate on it for three days. So as you go to the opposite side, all the things that I just described flip the opposite direction. So instead of being more independent, you tend to become more codependent. You need somebody else to help you regulate. You look to other people to solve problems. So instead of when push comes to shove, I'm going to figure out how to handle it. I immediately go look to somebody who's an authority or someone who's in hierarchy to tell me how to solve the problem. So you can see why this does not naturally lend itself to entrepreneurship. You can't look to other people. You have to essentially learn how to thrive. Flying solo typically learn how to do all the different facets of the job, even so that you can properly delegate it. So in general, when we go over to that right side, not only do people become typically more codependent, they start to lose self trust as we start to move out to that right side and they start to lose situational awareness. They're so fixated on what others think and feel that it's like they're missing all those pixels behind them. So an example of this would be, my mom is on the far right. She was so focused on what she thought I was thinking about her that she could easily project that I was judging her. And. And then she would lash out at me for something that didn't take place in objective reality and that I was completely unaware of. I'm so busy worrying about the broad situation that I'm missing something that's right in front of me and she can't see the broad situation and can only see what she thinks is right in front of her. Does this making sense so far?

Yeah.

Yeah. So what I have found is that if you track 200 historical data points from somebody's life, from kind of birth to present, and these are concrete facts, these aren't, you know, so how did you feel about your relationship with your mom? So we're not using words like how did you feel? Was it good? We're looking at cold, hard facts that anybody can extract from their childhood, even if they feel like they don't have a good memory. I have found that if you take the answer pattern to these 200 historical data points, you can accurately predict patterns of thought behavior and decision making with 98.3% accuracy. So I turned this into a predictive algorithm that tracks nine distinct markers that can. If I know these things about the person, I know the secrets you keep, I know your underlying motivations, and I know in any given situation exactly how you would handle it in early stages, in the middle and late stages, and how the whole cycle would start all over again. And when I go through this with people, they're often a little bit scared because it doesn't seem like it should be possible. How could just my answers to these things actually tell you all of that? And it's because. Because what we experience with repetition in our early childhood years it does predispose us to think of the world within a formula. So while you look different than I do, you and I could have the same exact brain pattern. We could have the same exact brain pattern, the same markers in the same order. So while we have certain aspects of our personality that might show up differently, we could start talking and realize like, oh, my God, I do that too. You do that too. Have you ever met anybody like this before where you just. You seem so similar that it's almost scary?

Yeah.

Okay. This happens a lot, by the way, in the entrepreneurship community, because where I just showed you on the spectrum, we are very small percentage of the general population. There's like this Goldilocks in the three bears scenario that has to happen. We need to be, like, just messed up enough, but just good enough to kind of eke it out and end up on the middle left. So there's a secret sauce of inputs that can't be too good, but they also can't be too bad to spit us out right there. And when I speak to entrepreneurship groups and I describe some of these things, people are like, oh, my God, no one's ever gotten me in my whole life except you. This is so crazy. So when you're in kind of more of these tight knit, like, mastermind groups, you start to realize very quickly, I literally, like, share a brain with these people. And you quite literally do. I was on Sean Kelly's podcast back in February, and I did a whole segment about the brain patterns of the top 1%, posted it. And of course, the amount of hate that you get from everybody, that's not. This brain pattern type was hilarious. But from that, Andy Frisella reached out to me and was like, yes, this is exactly me. Like, I've never heard somebody articulated this way. Three other huge influencers with like 3 to 5 million followers on Instagram are like, no one ever got me. This is the first time I actually feel seen, because we get it. But people misinterpret our why all the time in my career for many years, people misunderstand when I'm being driven to care for others and provide for others. They're simultaneously thinking that I'm selfish or narcissistic. This is a very common conundrum that entrepreneurs find themselves in, because if they don't think like you and they don't perceive reality the way that you do, they're gonna try to project how they see the world onto your actions, and there will be a mismatch. So this is one of the fundamental pieces of my work is that I feel like if I were to distill down and someone's like, busy, what do you do? I think there are a lot of modalities that help you become aware of what you do. Right. You can look at your behavior and kind of piece it all out and you're like, I do this in relationships, I make bad decisions here. I'm impulsive here. But you know the what. I'm able to tell you the why. When you know the why, it can completely transform all of your relationships. It transforms the way you show up in your work. Because many of us, even through self deception, we've made so many excuses and rationalizations and justifications that we can't really see that lens of self deception anymore. It just starts to feel like self. When you understand the why and you can kind of correct the underlying motivations and understand why you do something, it's so much easier to stop doing it because like you, you're a smart girl. If I were to break down the formula and you actually finally faced it head on, you'd be like, oh my God, that's ridiculous. I would never, now that I can see it, I would never do that ever again. See what I'm saying?

And what does that process look like? So like if I'm somebody that realizes I'm repeating the same pattern. For instance, for me long time ago, my whole life up until recently, I had, I dated the same guy with a different face over and over again. Right?

And real same.

Yeah. And I was like, okay, I'm the common denominator here. I'm choosing these people or attracting these people. Like what's wrong with me that I can fix and change it, but it took a. I had to mess up enough to see the pattern. And that's where I saw the pattern. Instead of just jumping back in into another relationship, I'm like, okay, I gonna work on myself and figure out how to rewire my brain so I don't attract people like this anymore or choose people like this or whatever. Um, so I guess what's the process for someone to identify that they even need to heal or go through the break method or this type of process and then what can they expect outta that process? So you ask a series of questions, they tell you all their secrets, and then what happens after that?

So that's just step one and they actually don't tell me their secrets. I tell them their secrets. That's kind of the whole thing is that I can predict everything that you experience and all the Secrets that you keep. So that's the whole thing, is that you don't tell me anything. That's what's so scary about it, is that I'm able to tell you who you are in a way where people are like, oh, my God, this is so freaky. How did you do it? And it just proves that we are very formulaic beings. We have a big spirit or personality. But ultimately I have proven with what I've done over the last 11 years that there's basically five versions of human being. We have like five operating systems, and that's about it. So there are subcategories from underneath the five, but ultimately there's about five different variants of human being and how we see the world and how we behave. So that's just step one. So that's the diagnostic process where we come up with your pattern hypothesis. We have those nine markers, then starts the process of actively rewiring, which with break method, takes between 20 and 24 weeks. One of the things that's very important about the process is that the client can't guide it. As soon as your preference and what you like or don't like can actually guide the flow of healing, you're not going to heal, right? Because you're not going to like the things that you actually really should do. And this goes back to what you were saying about the relationships. Often the things that we like, the things that we feel are attractive or feel safe, even to us in early stages, we find out the hard way a plot twist. The. Those are the things that over time become something else that we don't like. This is why most people don't learn that they have to do something different until they keep getting themselves into pain. So I think it's a beautiful thing that you got yourself into pain so many times that you're like, okay, when I'm not in this, now that I'm just living my life, I gotta do the work now. Because people usually try to do it when they're experiencing the pain, and you can do that too. But I typically encourage people, even if your life is not a dumpster fire right now, like, that's a great time to do it. Do it when your life is not on fire, because then you can take it more seriously methodically, you have time to really piece through it. Because every single one of us has a brain pattern that locks us into certain cycles of conflict or chaos. And some of us mask them really well. Some of us have achieved a lot on paper, but life could always be better we could always be even better at the things that we're good at. And I work with so many high level entrepreneurs too, where I try to remind them a lot of the issues with your behavior that breaks apart your relationships is actually what makes you thrive in your career. So we don't go and just start pulling things out and changing the person. I'm not gonna break something that is already working for the person. So if someone's leadership style or harsh style of communication works really well for them and their business, I just need to change how they're dealing with their spouse. So we keep that intact and help them understand how they have to do it differently or in a pattern opposed way in relationships. So one of the very first steps after you get through the diagnostic assessment is to uncover these pieces and these data input relationships without you guiding the process. Many people, when they go into therapy, they have their story already of why they are the way they are, right? Daddy issues, mommy issues, because I was adopted. And what I've found over 11 years is that these things are almost never the actual cause of the pattern. Our patterns are created by much more under the radar, subtle, repetitive things that we experience in our environment. Like a mom's facial expressions, a dad's voice tone, observing something, and then our brain filling in the gaps because parents aren't giving us the quality of information that we're looking for. These are the things that are much more likely to create the brain pattern rather than one off really traumatic events. We typically experience those traumatic events through our brain pattern. So as we're going through this process, we have to make sure that we're extracting data in a way where the client can't guide or prevent the process with their preferences. So for this, I usually describe to clients that you're basically agreeing to be a rat in a mace. You won't know when you're getting out of it. You won't know what we're doing and why. Because if you know too much, then you can lie, cheat and steal your way through it. And then you won't actually get what you paid me to get you. So there's this process by which, whether it's rat in a maze or you're agreeing to basically strap yourself into a rollercoaster and you will get off the roller coaster, but it's gonna be a wild ride. There's some submission process that has to happen where you can't know what and why. And that's precisely why it works. When you're able to be asked questions that Are all narrative where you can say, like, how you felt about your dad or why you think a parent favored your sister over you. These are all questions that are truly irrelevant to sustainable healing. So we do not do any of that. Everything is very tactical, strategic. There's always a structure that you can't change because there's a part of that process that's gonna be the medicine that everybody needs at some point. So there are certain brain pattern types that at certain phases of the structure, it's easy. And then there are others that are like, I hate this part of the process. So every time that you hate it and you want to push back against it, that's usually the exact point where you needed that medicine. Right. Like, we don't like the way medicine tastes, but we need it nonetheless. So in these moments, every. At some stage, let's say you break it into, like, 16 different sections. @ some point, everyone's going to get exactly what they needed, and they'll be triggered in the exact right ways to learn how to map what's actually happening beneath the scenes. All the while, we're helping people collect data that they can't manipulate, and then we're helping them learn how to organize it. And this is a process that is very important because everything that I have built is very important to me, that it's sustainable. And for something to be sustainable, you have to empower the person to learn how to do it. And we live in a society where learned helplessness is rampant. They want you to do for them. Yeah, just fix it. Like, can't you just fix it for me, Hannah? The reality is I can, but then you would need me forever. And I don't want to build that sort of relationship. That's not empowering, and it's not sustainable. So while I'm helping, whether it's me or someone on my team, while we're helping somebody through this process, we're simultaneously making sure that they know what we know so they can do this for themselves for the rest of their lives. Otherwise, it's not sustainable. So there's this passing of information that I've heard a lot of people describe it. Like the intensity of going through college all over again, but of self. It's a lot of work. There's a lot of time that you spend in it. But as you're coming through to the other side, I have seen even the Most dysregulated person completely 180, and be a different person with different relationships. And my favorite part about all of this is that they're not really a different person. They are who they actually were meant to be before their childhood got in the way. So I like to look at it as a process of restoration because I do think we come into this world with the unique blueprint. Some of us are very aligned with our destiny from those young years, and others of us have to try to struggle to figure that out. But there's so many things that start to prevent us from being able to click onto that track and really go for it. We start to question ourselves. We start to get ourselves into chaotic back and forth and interpersonal relationships. When you can remove all of that, you literally are unstoppable. You can do anything you want in your life. And I think that's who we always were meant to be. So I like to think of it going back to who you could have been rather than truly turning into somebody else.

Right. Yeah. And I. I study Dr. Gabor mate. He was. His book, the myth, the Normal was something that helps for more of my healing in that journey. But he says that, like, we lose our authentic selves as a child, and we don't. And then we develop an ego or this Persona or identity that isn't even who we are. It's just based on the rewards that we received for certain things that we accomplished or certain ways that we acted and our brains to survive decided to become this person. And then into adulthood, you're like, this is who I am. But it's not who you are. It's who you adapted to become, to survive. But that at some point doesn't serve you any longer because we're not in fight or flight. Like, we're not going to die. We're not going to be homeless. We're not going to die. Like, we have the ability and capacity to always be taken care of. But yet these. These I'm gonna die fear responses in our brain still drive our decision. Like, I still feel like I'm gonna die all the time. Like, not really die, but I'm gonna lose it all, or I'm gonna be homeless, or I'm gonna be broke, or I'm whatever, right? And it's such a stupid thing to think because there's no way in. In hell that would ever happen because people love me. Like, I have people in my life that I love, and they love me and they would take care of me. Like, that's just not a realistic expectation. And I know I would come off the ground and I would rebu. I would be fine. Like, I have my brain My experience and the people in my life that are critical to, to my support and vice versa. But it's crazy how that that wiring happens. And I found myself questioning this through my journey of transformation and healing is questioning who really am I? Like, am I really an entrepreneur who loves business and loves creation and all these things, or am I in a state of fight or flight that I'm terrified of being poor or not having money or not being good enough or cool enough or worthy, loved enough or smart enough or whatever. Is this person I think I am really, really who I am and starting to peel back those layers, which is very hard to do because self deception, right? You're like, you have justification. Like, oh yeah, this is how I am. This is how I've always been.

And your conscious and subconscious are not in congruency. That's why consciously you're like, I know all of these things. And then your subconscious is like, hold my beer.

Right?

Yeah.

And I've, you know, I questioned my identity so much that I mean, I sold everything, quit my job. This was a long time ago, before I had businesses, but I had like a small real estate business. I had an engineering job at the time and I had some houses at the time and I sold stuff, bought a one way ticket to Hawaii, quit my engineering job and I was like, maybe I'm not supposed to be a driven entrepreneur. Maybe this is just fear and maybe I would be better just living off passive income and sitting on the beach. I didn't like that either, you know, and so just trying to figure out and, and then going through this healing process in this journey that I'm still, I think we're always kind of on, but we're always growing, right? We're either growing or we're dying. But through that process I was able to figure out, oh no, I am an entrepreneur. I love the game of entrepreneurship. I am put on this earth to create and to serve and to heal and to help and to work towards my highest potential and help people do the same. But I was being driven from fear and scarcity and, and shame and guilt and resentment and all these things that I was holding on to. And I knew that those energies and belief systems and patterns were toxic to, to me in my life and to the people who are in my life also. And I wasn't going to reach my highest potential or show up my best for the world or share my gift with the world in the right way if I was operating from that point of fear or negative energy versus a place of True freedom and joy and creation and love and abundance and all, all those things. So for your process, like, because it's such a difficult thing to think about because it's so theoretical and you bring data and science into it, which is really awesome. But how does someone know that they need it? Like what are the patterns in your life? Or how does someone even have the awareness that maybe I should do something like this and maybe I am self sabotaging or maybe I should rethink my dogmas that I currently believe, even if they're in the middle of their lives.

I think everybody needs it. And I think you can do it when you're in a currently traumatized state, but it's even better to do it when things are going pretty good. This is like being able to get a cheat code in a game where you've been like struggling at the game for a while and like you're doing pretty good, you've got a high score, but all of a sudden someone's like, here you go. And then all of a sudden you can go up 20 levels in one night where it might have taken you like a year to get there. So we all benefit from understanding how our brain deceives us and distorts the world around us. And it does happen to every single person. No one, no one gets out of this without this happening. It's part of the human experience. But when you learn what the distortion is, it's like, if you were to go put on my glasses prescription, most likely you wouldn't be able to see anymore. You'd be like, damn, this girl has really bad eyesight. But if I put on my glasses, perfect vision, right? Our brain pattern functions like that glasses prescription, so we've just identified with it as self for X amount of years. I'm 40, so I would have identified with it for 40 years. But as soon as I learn what it is and what goes into that distortion and how it subtly shifts things and sets me up to repeat things, that might not be the only way I can do things. I learn how to take them off and now I'm corrected back to objective reality. So I know how I like to do things. But I'm now able to adapt and be more flexible, be more dynamic, meet people where they are rather than just where I know how to meet them. Because most people, we do get locked into certain things. Like my personality is just this way. This is just my communication style. I'm just a loud, extroverted person. I can be that way and I can be really quiet. I can listen for a long time where I can talk for a long time. Most people can't. They don't have that dynamic range anymore. They're mostly a one trick or two trick max pony. So no matter who you are, this unlocks why you've experienced the life that you have and helps you understand why small minute to minute actions or thoughts might actually be causing you to not get to the outcome that you want. And it might not be these big things, because I think a lot of times the word even self sabotage gets overused. And I mean, it's. You know, oftentimes people will look at self sabotage, for example, aligned with procrastination. Technically, those are words that describe how behaviors unfold over time. Our behaviors are going to function like a baton passing. Like if you were running a relay race. One is passing the baton to the next. The core of my work is that this is all happening at the level of language. If I'm scanning the pixels and I see, this is a book, this is a water bottle, you're a Hannah. This is microphone. Everything I look at, my brain is trying to define it. And once I think I've organized the pixels, my brain's gonna define it. And then I decide, well, if this is a microphone, what are things that I do with a microphone? I could sing into it. I could talk. I could be like, oh, no, no, I don't like being on camera. I don't like talking. So my brain is then going to start to jump all these next levels with Break Method. And with this book, we help you understand the language that your brain generates as a byproduct of your pattern. Because if our brain is thinking in formulas, those formulas end up now becoming language. And this language is like an excuse, a justification. Oh, well, I can't say this right now because it would upset her. So I'll just, I'll keep it to myself and I'll text her later. Right? Think about how just those little things that we do all day long. Oh, I should smile a little bit more. Like, I might look like I'm kind of mad. That all has language with it. You're not just thinking that passively and doing it. There's usually actual words that go with it. Some people it might have more of an auditory quality. Some people it's more visual. But regardless, we're generating language. So with Break Method, once we know exactly what your pattern is, we start to address it and dismantle it. At the level of language, you have to fight an argument with A better argument. So I think in a lot of mental health and coaching and personal development practices, there's too much reliance on willpower. And it's like, you know, don't do it this way. Do it this way instead. Good. Now go do that. How often does that happen? Virtually never. Because to your point, your subconscious and your conscious are not at all in alignment. One part of you is like, I got this. I can do anything. And then the other part's like, you could totally lose everything and end up homeless. So how do you reconcile those two things together? You have to address the language that caused this split or this fork and get them back into agreement with each other. Most people, even the people that you meet that are completely irrational and moody. The brain, because it really functions more like a computer, there's a part of it that if you give it the right logical sequence, it actually, it wants to consume the truth. But it's built up so many rules that are antagonistic to that that the defense mechanisms that you have to get through to get there are obviously very profound and more so for some people. This was what I was pointing out to you at the beginning. My guess is you're probably pretty similarly placed to where I am on the spectrum. And there's already a more natural awareness to pull back and think, like, what could I have done differently? Like, did I mess that up? Is there something strategic that I need to change for next time? Whereas other people on the spectrum don't necessarily do that. They get really locked into their perspective. So I'm naturally able to question myself a little bit more than maybe other people would on the spectrum. But everybody has to learn how to do this. And it's not very general things that's very specific to you. So if I know your underlying motivation and what your brain is actually trying to do and where it's going to go next and next and next, I can insert the exact right question sequence that shows your brain where it's about to go. So it's almost like pulling the curtain off on the wizard of Oz and just being like, see, this guy's nothing. You don't have to deal with this. And if we understand the whole sequence, we can literally rip it out from the root. And honestly, a lot of times clients just start laughing like people that have struggled for years. When you do it the right way, they're like, oh, my God, this is so easy.

I'm trying to visualize how this works because I know what I've been through, and it's so hard because everybody is.

In the book, so you will get to experience it. I give everyone their, I call them rebellion zones. So based on your pattern, what areas your brain does a certain way and then avoids in a specific way and exactly what Eli questions to ask yourself to get out of it.

Okay, so you, you have the awareness of what you're doing or the patterns that you have and the self sabotaging patterns that you've developed over time. And then you, based on your pattern, your brain pattern, you probe the right questions for you to ask yourself to start, cause you to start thinking differently. And then it's like something, you know, once you've seen light, you can't unsee light and you start to have even more awareness and you could start to slow down the train, as my old coach would say, and react in a different way after that awareness.

That's some of it. And I think that's, I would say that happens in maybe the earliest stages of this, but not the late stages partly of what you're describing. So learning what the pattern is and how to kind of observe when you're in it and then at that point insert the intervention. That's maybe what we would do in the very beginning when somebody's not yet accustomed to what we're doing and why. But there are other opportunities to insert that language that actually have a more profound effect. So let's say that you had a four. Think about it like dominoes. Let's say you had four dominoes up. Let's say that I know this person really does the most damage to their life on this fourth domino. I'm not going to start my strategy between three and four. And unfortunately, I think this is often what happens in a lot of like behavior modification therapy. It's like you address the behavior at the time of the behavior. My entire methodology is that that behavior is actually a domino effect of something that happened way earlier. And if I can stop this one effectively, this one never has a chance of happening because I already know how these are all interconnected. So I find the most elegant endpoint to get the most bang for my buck with where we're putting in the strategy. This is why people that might have struggled with things like addiction for a long time and had to white knuckle through something, they typically get to module three in break method. And they're like, I, I don't even have to try to do this. It's just happening naturally. Like, how did this, how did this happen to me? Because you're actually changing the way they see the world rather than trying to change the behavior. So if you can address the faulty perception and everything that comes from that place, the behavior is very unlikely to ever happen anyways. And if it does, you'll have a completely different perspective of it, and you would likely start to see the error as it's unfolding, and you would naturally do it differently. The other aspect of this that's very important, and it's what's tied into the whole concept of rebellion zones, is we have to do certain things that we don't like or don't want to do. But it's not just random. Everything is like balancing scales. Everyone, if I know your exact pattern and I know these nine markers and in what order they unfold, there are very specific things I need to get you to do, equipped with this strategy so that you can actually rewire. You can't rewire something that you're not doing. So I think a lot of times in therapy or even like spiritual communities or leadership, you just start to cut out things that you think are toxic and you just stop engaging them. But then you don't actually learn to rewire how to engage things like that. You just cut them out, AKA you avoid it. So with break method, it's very much the opposite. I encourage people, once we have the plan and the strategy and we know exactly what we're gonna do and how we're going to time it, now you have to be prepared to go into battle, because the only way to actually rewire this sustainably is to do it and do it again and again and again. So this is the part in my work that I call pattern opposition, which is very precise. So it's not just like, do some opposite or just do something you don't like. There's a very specific way that we have to do things differently. But because we've addressed the perception and the strategy of how you're going to walk it out, typically you're generating very different outcomes, and now you're collecting evidence. Oh, my God. When I do it this way, this X happens instead of Y. And now everything else in your life starts to change because you're changing and you're doing things differently. So typically, by the time in my work, we get to the period that we call the rewire sprint, right? That's where I always am. Like, you know, this is where the magic happens, which is really, it's kind of a joke because it's actually already happened. And then by the end, they're like, how much more can I Even change. And I'm like, exactly, because you've got them distracted. Like, okay, so no pressure, like I'm going to get there at the end. But it already happens before you get there because it's happened naturally. Without having to rely on willpower or without having to, you know, read a book and say, I have to do it this way instead of that way we actually get your brain to think differently.

Yeah, I was, as you were saying that I was thinking of, you know, for my talk, I'm thinking of the three steps to, to healing or three steps to generational freedom. Because it's a big theme and in my life and work is generational freedom, not just generational wealth. And that has a big internal component to it, which is what we're talking about. And I struggled with addictive personality my as long as I could remember. You know, I was over accomplisher. I was a workaholic, I was a food addict, I was a relationship addict. I had like, you know, smoking every day, all these things. And it was always so hard for me because I would go to therapy or whatever and my biggest addiction was food addiction my whole life. And it was like, willpower doesn't work because when I had an urge to eat whatever was in front of me or whatever, it wasn't like I wasn't there. I didn't feel like I was in my body or had a conscious decision to say, oh, no, I'm not gonna have that, because I wasn't. It was autopilot. It was just that behavior is like, okay, that's the trigger. Whatever the trigger was, this is the, the reward which was the food or the cookie or the whatever it was. And then I would have the reward. And then it wasn't until after that I was like, ah, like I wish I had control over doing that. So how would this process, in that type of example, call it any behavioral addiction, like let's say smoking and you just grab your vape or your, your cigarette all the time or whatever. How does, how would you work to like reprogram a behavior like that through your process?

So the example that you shared with food addiction is something that I deal with all the time in my practice, most likely. So in terms of that sequence. So with the behavior markers that we track, there are out of nine, four are outwardly presenting behavior mechanisms and how they unfold chronologically. So most likely for you, where the food addiction was, was not in first or second position. It was probably in third or fourth position. So the way that I would deal with it is likely you were doing something in those early stages that had nothing in your mind. It's completely separate of the food addiction. So even the trigger that you're probably tracking like this trigger, and then I would act out the food addictive behavior, that's actually likely not, that's maybe the closest trigger to the actual food addiction, but it's not the ultimate trigger of the food addiction. Something happened earlier in the cycle. So that is our way of addressing it is figuring out if I find this end point like this, I call it the strongman in my work, if I understand where the strongman is, that will end up becoming the puppet master of all of these consequential behaviors. I can stop the whole system. And this is why even with things like heroin addiction, smoking something that was so hard for somebody all of a sudden is not hard. And it feels like magic because we just got it at the right point. So it could come from the perfectionism. It could come from thinking that something has to happen a certain way. If it goes south on you, then you're looking for something to satiate yourself. There's so many things that could happen along the way. And it would be my job. Using your brain pattern map to figure out how to stop the food addiction long before you're ever even thinking about reaching for food. So that it's never something that you would reach for.

It sounds like magic.

It, it's so scientific, but it does feel like magic because it makes these things that for many people they've struggled with for years and it feels complex and overwhelming. It distills it down into something that can be easily repeated. And I've seen it work for everybody. I have done this in the prison system with inmates that have below a third grade education level. I've worked with high level CEOs. I work with seven, eight year old, nine year old clients all the time. I've worked with at risk teens. I've seen the same system work with every single person, regardless of how pronounced their mental health issues are. I've also dealt with a lot of people who are just C suite executives that are like, I know I could be better. Like, let's just. I don't know, I'm just, I'm bored. I need. I have one client right now who top of his career, everything he's ever done, he's gone to the top. He's like, I just feel like I'm in an existential crisis. And I'm like, hi me. I'll tell you why you're in an existential crisis right now. So. Because sometimes you get to the top of so many things that you're like, well, shit, what do I do now? And I have a lot of clients like that. So for this to work with the guy who has everything and the private jet and all the things, and they're like, why do I, why do I feel so empty? If it can work with that, and it can work with an inmate who's serving a 30 year sentence that has a second or third grade, it just works. And it doesn't require willpower or academic prowess. You just have to put yourself into the system and allow yourself to be transformed.

That's so cool. It's so inspiring. And how long have you. When did you develop the break method?

It's been about 11 years since I first started to create it. So it's had different iterations over time. So it started off much more seminar based where I was doing a lot of traveling seminars all over the country. Then it started to become an online program in 2017. Focused on that for many years. And then in about 2021, I started to work on the technology side and the algorithm because I was doing all the diagnostic work, I was the algorithm. And then I trained other people to be the algorithm. And eventually we started to see where technology was going and I realized I can actually teach an algorithm to do this and be a support tool and a predictive tool. So that's really been the last roughly year and a half that it's been full, full throttle in every part of the business. And I also work with corporations as well because you can do brain pattern mapping for entire teams and figure out why something is not working or why something was working. And then I put in one team member and suddenly what used to work isn't working anymore. Why I can help explain exactly why and what you can do to fix it.

That's amazing.

It's fun.

What I like how you were talking about because we're talking a lot about behaviors or possibly, you know, certain addictions or things like that. But then you just mentioned an executive that maybe just doesn't feel fulfilled.

Right.

It's like something's missing. I've had it all. And we, and I have this. I just want more and more and more, more and more, accomplish more, do more, reach more, build more, create more. Right. And it's like this insatiable obsession with always growing no matter what. And I, I am at a point where I enjoy that process, but there's also periods where I'm like, is it ever going to be enough? You know, somebody said something, not to me, but I heard it and it really resonated with me. He said, I'll have something that you'll never have enough. And it was like one of those goosebump moments in my body. Like, oh my God, I don't know if I'm ever going to feel like I have enough. Like if I'm ever going to really just be so present in the moment or in my life or in my existence or connect, connected to source. Like I have these moments where I feel connected to source or the universe or even myself. And then there's most moments where I'm just doing the thing, you know, and I'm just that entrepreneur and I'm out there working and creating and doing everything. So I guess how does this help? Like if you're just. Most of our audience is entrepreneurs and real estate investors. If you're a high performing, like, think of someone like me, right? I'm a high performing person. I've done a lot of inner work. I don't have a lot of bad habits. I'm pretty clear on like who I am and what I want and what my mission is on this earth. But still feeling, you know, it never feels like it's enough or I always have to do more. How, how does this help? Like what is your process and how does that help someone that's in that position that maybe doesn't have a bunch of diagnosed mental illnesses or severe issues? They just want to be better and they want to really live the fullest life that they could possibly live.

So I can certainly first speak to the high level entrepreneur and successful people. 99.9% of those people also have issues in intimate relationships. So that's one of the things where sure, maybe there's no diagnosed mental illness, maybe there's no, there's no even like, you know, tangential mental illness whatsoever. But relationships prove to be more challenging or a source of more stress or something that in your mind, maybe there's this subconscious message like life would just be so much easier by myself. And I mean, I know I've been there before. I'm married, I have four kids. I love being married, it's the best. But because of where I am on that brain pattern spectrum, my brain's go to is it would be easier alone. I could do this easier alone. So I have to learn how to be aware of that and pour back into my marriage and not ever let my brain have an inch on that specific topic. So Even with people whose lives are amazing and they've accomplished so much, there's usually one or two facets of life where if they're really honest with themselves, some change would do them good. And in the case of this person that was going through an existential crisis, eventually, if you're always chasing, if you don't address why you're motivated by the chase, and to learn how to, you would, in my opinion, just from the little that I've heard, you've got to learn to separate two things. You have to learn to keep your fire going and to, like, keep getting excited about things and being committed and passion driven, because that's obviously who you are at the core. But we'd have to separate that out from some of the instinctive fear that's almost like igniting the spark, because you can have this without this. But there's a part of you right now that's connecting them together. That's that kind of connection between the subconscious and conscious for this person. Imagine you ran this pattern for, I think this person's probably close to 60. When you get close to 60 and you realize, shit, I literally like, I can't. I can't run this fast, this hard for the rest of my life. Their entire identity is built around that, which is why they eventually get to this place where they're like, I don't know who I am without being able to do this. So I think for people like that, it behooves you to try to get to the root of that now when you're still young and vibrant, so that you don't ever end up 50. Thinking like, like, how do. I don't know how to be another way? Because you. You've learned how to separate those two. Because you can still be you. You can still be an amazing entrepreneur and have drive, but you can also learn when to pull back into seasons of doing nothing. And for what it's worth, I think you're our brain. If we don't have the right formula, it will trigger us to pendulum swing. It's like, okay, we need to reset. We're gonna do this, like, wild opposite. So I think this is why you went to Hawaii, right? Many people do that where it's like, the only way for me to not do it this way is to just radically do things so differently. The key, going back to the brain pattern spectrum, if I know exactly where you're plotted, I know exactly where healing is for you, where regulated and balanced is I know exactly what behaviors and when and how we have to change them to get you back to that peaceful, regulated state where you can like be a baller and a badass, but you also could be still and sit on a beach for two weeks and not feel pulled to do the other thing. Because we need to learn how to have that dynamic range. And typically we're one thing or the other. So I think for many people that are like you, life is great. Could it be better? Probably. And probably in a couple of select areas. And if we can be this successful with the brain pattern that we've got, what other levels are there? That's how I would always look at it is there's always a new level to unlock. And I think the biggest thing is this work will transform the way you engage and see other people. So even if it's not, it doesn't end up being for you. If you manage a team, let's say of like 10, 15 people, whether it's this book or you work with me in break method, the level to which you'll be able to understand your staff and get through to them more effectively and understand what drives them and how to move the chess pieces around the chessboard, it'll be such a significant level up that it would be like playing a different game entirely.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. And that's the hardest thing in this game is people, they have relationships. Like it's the hardest. And that's always been. My biggest struggle has been relationships, you know, with, with everybody, but mostly with men. And I'm not anyone. I'm like, I just better off alone. I just don't, I don't need to get married, I don't need to have kids. I need to do all those things. But now that I've done this growing, I'm like, okay, well, I know those are fear driven. I've been, I haven't wanted a marriage or kids since I was a little girl because marriage and kids didn't look fun to me as a little girl. And now I have that possibly self sabotaging pattern of I'm just so cut off to it, I don't even look at it. I don't even like, I see a guy and I don't even think of could you be a good prospect? Because I, my brain has shut itself off for so many years. I don't see children and think I want one. I see children and think of childhood patterns of why I don't want them, you know, and then part of me is like, well, am I going to go through this whole life and miss out on one of the biggest experiences. Because I always talk. I'm like, I don't want to be a hypocrite. I talk about. I want to experience everything in this life and truly, like, embody and embrace life in existence and creation, but yet I'm going to cut off the biggest piece of it, right? And so I try. I am in that point right now where I'm trying to challenge myself of how do I get over that idea of marriage is a prison. Kids, you will take your life and won't respect you and won't love you, and they're just going to complain about you, so what's the point of even having them? Or, you know, I have all these negative belief systems in my head that I know I have to rewire because I could end up, like, six years old and be like, well, I never got married. I never had a family. I have this big company, hopefully, you know. But is that everything? Is that all? Did I. Did I really live my life to the fullest and experience it in the best way possible and serve in the best way possible?

So I have some thoughts on that. Number one, I will say for the sake of transparency, I've had so many clients just like you, and I am the godmother to many children who. Who were eventually born from people who were like, I don't ever want to do this. So I do think that oftentimes when you do heal that spark of possibility and even, like, an openness to, Maybe not, like, trying to make it happen, but at least an openness to, like, if it happens, then it happens. It can happen very quickly. So there's that side of it. The other thing is, and I believe this to be true from personal experience and working with clients, there are certain lessons. Like, if you're saying, like, I really want to, like, experience the fullness of life. I was always somebody that never wanted to have kids either. And I, like, always knew I wanted to be a career woman. I just. I just always was that way. And my mom and dad still, when they see me, they're like, I just can't get over the fact that you have four kids. Like, no one ever thought this was gonna happen. Like, most unlikely candidate ever. So I do think that there are certain lessons that are almost impossible to learn without putting yourself into that type of hardship. Like, if you think about, like, containers of bad times that you've had and how you've kind of worked through them and they've bolstered you up or they've Brought out skills in you. Like, in entrepreneurship, if you think of, like, three times that things went terribly wrong, you probably actually learned a really valuable skill set that now you utilize in a different part of your business. Right. It helped you grow. I can look back. I have. My oldest is 15. My youngest is 3. So they're kind of like, spread out all the way around, whether it's having a child or being married. And I've been married previously, and I'm married now. There are just certain things where even if I intellectualize them or I knew them when I could teach them, I couldn't actually physically change and embody it without being in it. Like, I had been married before, but I always was like, the one foot in, one foot out. Never really. Like, there always was something else, possibly, or like, I never really felt like it was gonna be forever. So that meant I was never really 100% committed. So I wasn't able to really learn and grow from the hardship of being in a committed relationship. Because while I was technically married, I wasn't committed at. Now I'm married to somebody and have been for seven years where I am. This might sound strange. I always tell people I'm, like, even more committed than I am in love, which I'm so in love with my husband. But I'm like, more than anything else, I knew from my pattern my commitment had to be the most important thing. So, like, with my husband, I've never thought of a backup plan. I've never, like, none of that. And all of the lessons that I still had yet to learn that I knew how to teach other people, I've been able to actually personally grow through the hardship over the last couple of years. So I do think if you, like, rise up and look at it from a spiritual perspective, I don't think I would know things intellectually, but I wouldn't feel them. They wouldn't be, like, a part of who I am at the cellular DNA level without having lived through them. And they just. They change you. And it does suck. Sometimes having kids can be. It can be really rough. My oldest daughter has cerebral palsy. She died for 20 minutes during her birth. So the first few years of my life were with her were very traumatizing. So much so that her biological dad committed suicide when she was 2. So it was like, a really rough period of two years. So I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you and say that it's all gonna be easy, but if it's ever something that finds its way to you, I'M a testament. You can be a successful entrepreneur and have everything and have a whole gaggle of kids following you around that, you know, I have two boys, two girls, my girls, even my daughter Harley. She's four. The other day, she, like, grabbed her cell phone and, like, had a bunch of crap in her hand in her purse, and she was, like, walking around like a boss. And my husband's like, what. What have we done? She already, like, wants to run businesses. She's four. She's on. She's pretending to be on her cell phone. Like, yeah, I can't talk right now. I'm sorry. Just shh. I can't talk right now. Just pretending to be me. So there's something to be said for. I really believe what I'm about to say, and I've said it to a few other women. I think where we find ourselves in the world right now, many of the people that don't want to have kids because they don't feel like they need that to complete themselves. Like, I don't need that. It's not part of my identity. You're the ones that should have kids. It's the people that I need to do this because it's who I am. They end up creating these kind of bizarre, codependent relationships with their kids where they need to pull from their kids. Think about. You're such a badass woman. Imagine what you can share with another woman. You can completely break the generational cycle.

I know, I know. I'm like, I'm doing all this healing, and then it's gonna end with me. Like, that sounds special.

I don't believe it.

No, it's. It's so true. And it's. It's just always, like, we just. As entrepreneurs, as people, as individuals, as humans, we have to keep growing, and we have to keep questioning everything and that and just being genuinely curious about everything and ourselves and not just believing the bias that we're told or that we believe or that we know to be true, because we have to keep questioning. We have to keep growing. And. And it's. It's an experience, and that's why it's the life experience. And it's. We got one that we know of, you know, and we might as well live it to the fullest and push ourselves and do the hard things, like, do. Lean into the. The pain. Lean into the things that we resist. And usually everything great is on the other side of fear and. And discomfort. And so. Well, it's really cool. I know we gotta wrap up, but I'm super excited to read your book. 720 pages of it. I can't wait. And no, it's. It's great. And for all of the. All of you out there push yourself to do the hard things, to do the things that you don't think that there's an ROI on a spreadsheet because the real estate investment deal isn't working out or this investment in the business isn't gonna produce a direct return. But this type of work is the greatest thing that you could possibly do to grow. At least that's what I found from my experience. And just to feel better and feel connected and be a better person and be your best self. Because if you don't show up as your best self, then you're not only robbing yourself, but you're robbing everyone. You're robbing the world of your gift. And when we're shadowed by the. Our shadow, when we're consumed by our shadows, then we can't show up our best and, you know, our lightest energy and our fullest love and all these things. So thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for sharing this message. Thank you for your new book, and I'm excited to go through the process.

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Of course.