This Changed My Life Forever—And It’s Real (With Heidi Powell)

If you could give advice to your younger self, what would it be?

I think what I would want her to know is that everything works out beautifully. All of the pain, all of the struggle, all of the things that don't make any sense at all right now. Like all the things you're not proud of, all the shame you feel. Give it time and just keep going. Be so grateful for everything I have in my life. Like, man, I never, never in a million years would have guessed it. So I just tell her it all works out. It does.

Heidi Powell, thank you so much for being on my show. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. I'm so happy you have this podcast.

Oh, my gosh, it's been so fun. And I know I met you when we were speaking on a panel at Travis Brady's Brand X event here in Arizona, and you were just so inspiring just to listen to you. And I know, you know, for those of you who don't know, Heidi, Heidi's a transformation specialist. She's an entrepreneur. She's a mother of four beautiful children, and she's sitting here in front of me, and she's literally like the epitome of what everybody in the world wants to look like and be like the biggest smile, the best body, the most beautiful face, the kindest heart. Just, you're so sweet, and you just exuberate love.

Thank you.

And they thank you, really. And so thank you.

Well, can I just say, like, those things you just said about me, I actually feel the same way about you. And I think a lot of other people do, too.

Thank you so.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. I, you know, work in progress every day to just come from a place of love. And I am excited to hear your story. I know you are the CO host of ABC's World Famous show called Extreme Weight Loss.

Yes.

And you helped and still help people transform. And on the show, you help people lose hundreds of pounds of weight and transform. Short periods of time, I believe. And then now you have a fitness app and you have a supplement line and I believe a skincare line that's no more.

But I did. I did have one. Yeah.

Okay. But. But you're still you. You've done fitness competitions and personal training and just all transformation from a physical side. And then you get a lot into. You have a podcast called Heidi's Lane. I do. And you really are open about your life and your struggles and the emotional journey as well as the physical journey. And so I'm excited to dive in today, probably selfishly, because I'm on this journey right now of, like, I want to look just like you and do it in a healthy way. Oh. And I've struggled with eating disorders my whole life, and those were the darkest times of my life. Leading, you know, I don't know the symptom or the cause. Right. Not the cause. It was the symptom, but ultimately leading to a point where I wanted to take my life at some point from anorexia, you know, being chubby as a kid and being made fun of for that, and then going anorexic and crazy, crazy dieting, and then bulimia, then binge eating, then bulimia, then, you know, binge eating has been what I still struggle with today. And feeling like I have no control over, you know, food. And it's like to. I feel I have this belief that if I want to be as thin. Thin and strong and toned as I want, that I have to eat almost nothing. And so I'm excited to hear how you have overcome some of these similar issues in your life. And, you know, now today are the mo. Embody, like, the best physical shape you could possibly be in and then also want to dive into your personal story. And I know you've had some crazy experiences and lots of loss and lots of love as well, and just all the things.

There's so much to talk about. I mean, hearing you talk, I'm like, oh, my gosh, yes. I could talk forever about all of these things. So, yeah. Where do we want to start?

So who is Heidi Powell, for those who don't know? What's your. What's your story?

I think. I think we may have given you an outdated bio. That's okay. But all of the things that you said are all components of what has made me who I am today. Right. But it is interesting because how people know me on the outside world or in the outside world is not at all what is most important to me.

Right.

Like, my. And it's. It's been a journey. So there was a time where, like, the TV show defined me, or. And it's like me allowing the TV show to define me or the success that I had, I mean, even a handful of years ago, doing my challenges that I would. Which is I would run these groups through these challenges, and I would life coach them and do nutrition education and all of these things. There was so much of that I allowed and I thought needed to define who I was. Like, if the world says I'm enough, then I'm enough, right? And before that, before all of the exercise, nutrition type of stuff, and TV, I was in real estate. So I actually spent 10 years in real estate in loan processing, loan originating, and then just fix and flip. So there are so many different things where I was essentially chasing what I thought I needed in order to feel or be enough or get my dad's approval and love, who's actually not even here. And I still find myself trying to find that right, when all along, what. What I really needed and who I really am, like, it's like here, right? I am Heidi. Actually, Lane Heidi Powell is what the world knows me as. My real last name is Lane. I never changed it when Chris and I got married. And part of it was because I did have two kids when he and I got married, and they had a different last name, and they didn't like that I was going to have a different last name and the new babies were going to have Powell as a last name. So I had. I told them, I'm like, I'll stay Heidi Lane. You guys are going to be Maddox and Marley Solomon, and then the new babies and Chris will be Powell. So I have this beautiful family of. You said it, four kids. So who am I? Well, I. I am me first. But I am also, like, a very proud mom of four kids. And every single business decision or community decision or financial decision, every single decision I make is with those things in mind. First, it's me being connected to myself and then next to my kids. And it hasn't always been that way, but I recognize I will never, ever. How I look will never be enough. How much money I make will never be enough. How many houses I. But whatever it is, however many people whose lives I change, it will never make me feel like enough if I don't feel like enough in who I am. And so that's who I am. What I will say I'm doing primarily today, in all the ways through the fitness app on my communities online, I have chosen to show up authentically as I am, and in hopes of. And that means family first. That means giving up opportunities in hopes that it will inspire other women to do the same. Because that's where pure joy and peace has actually come from for me.

Yeah, all that resonates so much because it's the same for everybody. And it was the same for me is always, oh, if I get this, then I'll be happy. If I look like this, then I'll be happy. And if I make this Much, then I'll be happy. If I have this boyfriend, yeah.

If I have this relationship, if he can treat me this way, then yeah. It just never comes.

The answers are inside and it's really practicing. Stop looking to everything outside of you for all the, all the happiness that you're seeking, all the. That void to be filled. And I had to go back and realize how much trauma I was holding on to in my nervous system from, you know, wanting to having daddy issues and not being loved by my father and not feeling worthy and not feeling like enough and developing the strategy of over accomplishment and success to try to make myself feel worthy of life or love or anything. And so what was kind of your child you mentioned? Love from your father? Like what just a brief background of your childhood and what that kind of looked like for you. Were you always this overachiever? Like I'm going to be beautiful and smart and successful and the, the kindest person, like you know, that, that pleaser and that person that just wants to make everybody happy and, and do all the things. Did that stem early on or where did that come from?

Yeah. Who I am now is so far from who I was when I was a child. I, I mean I've always been the same person, but I was one. I, I heard in a book somewhere, I don't remember which book it was, but they said we are born all of who we are. Like in our infant state. Like that is everything. All of the magic, all of the beauty, all of the glory, all of the, everything, right? Our opinion, all of it is like there and it's the most beautiful thing. And then we spend the first chunk of our lives, like for some of us, half of our lives becoming who we think we need to be in order to be enough. So in my family it was like my dad was very strong and there was a particular way he wanted me to be. It was, I was a people pleaser. I was very kind, I was very generous. We were, in my dad's eyes, we needed to be perfect. Or I should say in my eyes what my dad wanted was something perfect. So I spent my life becoming and I was a very nice, soft spoken, no opinions. I didn't even know I had opinions. I didn't know I could. Emotions were suppressed and kept in unless they were positive and happy. And you know, then what I read in the book is after, you know, after we leave home and we kind of hit our midlife, we realize that we'll spend the rest of our lives undoing what we thought we needed to be in order to be enough to become once again who we really are. And so with. In that home, my parents were. Let me just say this. They were actually really great parents in so many ways. And it's kind of crazy to think that, like, someone who has great parents, who stayed married, who were beautifully in love, did not fight in front of us, which now I learn is a red flag. But, like, I never saw them fight. My dad worshiped the ground that my mom walked on. I had three brothers, and so I was kind of one of the boys. I only knew how to be tough. I only knew I wasn't glamorous or pretty or I might have been cute, but, like, none of that really even was in my head. I just. I was my boys, and I was constantly striving to get love from my dad that I needed now. He was very aggressive, very. And, you know, spanking and spanking hard was not abnormal in that day and age. Like, there was. There was physical stuff, but I think because I was my dad's only girl, I don't think he knew how to connect with a girl. And maybe a better way of saying that is I didn't feel connection from my dad, right. And I think I was constantly looking at how he connected with my brothers and coach, their games and coaches could talk to them freely. And with me, I think it was just a little bit uncomfortable because he treated women so well. But I think he only maybe knew how to have a woman in his life one way. And it was my mom, right? And so I think in childhood, what I've uncovered as I've done a ton of my own therapy and coaching, is I spent my childhood wishing I had the attention, just any attention from my dad that I saw my mom getting. And my mom was beautiful. Still is, but like a Barbie and like a strong Barbie, muscle Barbie, and just so kind and so sweet. And like, she. She was perfect and is perfect in my eyes. And so I. There was this picture of perfection that I thought I needed to be. To be enough. And then I also had this. This added layer of my brothers were getting his time and attention, and they were successful or, you know, overachievers or whatever. So I had this masculine fire from an early age to be enough, make my own money, be successful. And then also this, like, okay, I need to look like my mom. I need to be kind like my mom. I need people to see me and view me and adore me the way that they do my mom.

And.

And so it created an unattainable like for. You can't maintain that forever. Right. But it created a lot of really great gifts that I had and also a lot of trauma because it was all in an effort of achieving love or connection that I was never going to get in that way. Yeah. So that's what created a mess of an adult.

Well, I think you pretty much did.

All of it because it was messy.

Oh, yeah, no, I, I know.

You know, disorder, you know, troubles with the men. It's all there.

Yeah.

But there is a lot of success and a lot of achievement and eventually a reconciling in my life of. Okay, hold on now. I. Now here at 42, I completely understand why I made some of the choices I made. I understand why I've been married twice and divorced twice and I've had so many, so many other relationships, some of them I didn't even want. And I stayed in because I wanted to please men and I couldn't say no. And I get it now. Like, I understand why I had a 15 year eating disorder. It's because there was a broken little girl in there that was just so desperate and hungry for love in a way that she didn't know how to express and she searched in all the wrong places to find it.

You know, so can we talk about the eating disorder?

Oh, yeah.

Because that hits so home for me and I know for those watching, it's a common thing, especially where we live in Scottsdale or, you know, any big city. And there's so many expectations in a world of social media and all this stuff. So when did that develop and how did that progress and then how did you heal from that and still maintain? You know, I have an eating coach now and it's like, oh, abundance, abundance, abundance, like all abundance mindset. And I'm like, okay, well now I just eat everything inside anyway.

Good.

So I'm like allowing myself to binge eat. See what I'm saying?

That is good. Yeah, I love it. So I think, you know, I'll give my reason like where it started, but I believe this was a path that I was going to travel no matter what.

Right.

Like, I know there were a lot of times where I was like, oh, it was my dad's fault or my mom's fault. It was really my fault. Right. And I don't even want to say it's a fault because it like, truly the things in life I have carried the most shame for are the things that are now my absolute greatest gift. And I mean, the fact that I hurt myself the Way that I did is a gift because I have been able to help so many other people through things. Now my parents were both, they were like Mr. Clean, you know, like the big muscle bald guy. He was huge. He was 6 1. He had tons of muscles. And my mom was this beautiful muscle Barbie. And they were gym rats. So they grew up, or I grew up with parents who knew they were so far ahead of their time. Like they, back before anyone was doing protein or protein shakes, they were, they had like these, the first like RX bar protein brownies. And they were doing everything. So much so that like my parents would put those in my lunch. So I would have salads, I would have protein bars, all these things. I was very athletic. I was a gymnast most of my childhood. And then in high school, junior high, high school, I was in cheer and we competed and all that kind of stuff. And so having a fit life and a fit body and being active was very important to me and it was very important to my parents. Now my dad, because the gym was something that he loved so much that like brought him so much confidence and joy. He would wake me up at five in the morning to go to the gym when I was 15. And he meant it in a good way. But what I heard was, I'm fat. Or I, I'm not like my mom, because about 15, 16, as I was going through puberty, my mom might have been 112 pounds, but I was like 116. And so as I crept up a little bit and got bigger than my mom, I, she was the, she was the goal. Like, she was the princess, she was the queen. And so it was like, I can't be bigger than her. And I stopped fitting into her jeans. And that was like a total mind F for me. And then my junior year of. So there was already stuff brewing in my head, right? Like I was very aware of what I was eating. I'm like, my mom's packing me salads with fat free ranch. Like this must mean she needs me to be smaller, which she didn't mean, but that's how I felt. My junior year, I tore my ACL completely ruptured. My ACL had to have reconstructive surgery. And it was from in cheer. And I remember at that moment being like, okay, if I can't work out, because they couldn't. It was an eight month recovery. Like, there's certain things you can do in physical therapy, but back then it was very long recovery. This is 1996 or something. 97, 98. I don't know. I guess it was 98. And so in my mind I thought, if I can't work out, then I'm going to be fat. So I need to stop eating. Like I cannot eat food because I don't want to be too heavy. I don't want to, I don't want to be big or unlovable, which is how I viewed the world back then. And my brain was so, in hindsight, very underdeveloped because even prior to tearing my acl, I remember going up in stunts. I was the flyer and I felt bigger than everybody. I wasn't, but I felt bigger than everybody. That's that body dysmorphia at a very young age. And I remember at practice I would not drink water. I wouldn't even have sips of water because I was like, oh my gosh, if I drink water, I'm going to be too heavy for them to lift. And I didn't recognize that part of why I was harder to lift had nothing to do with how heavy or light I was. But it had everything to do with my body. Awareness was just not there. But all I was just, I had the glasses on of my body's not good enough. And so everywhere I looked the evidence would point to I'm either too big or I'm not good enough. So I did stop eating. And I went from like 118 pounds to I think it was 97 pounds. My junior year I kind of recovered from my ACL surgery, tore it again. My senior year made it even worse. My parents and my cheer coach kind of came together and were like, you got to do something, we need to fix this. And my dad force feeding me then taught me to throw up. You know, it was like, okay, I'll eat a burger and fries. I just need to figure out how to get it out of my body. And so that, that unleashed a far harder battle for me than anorexia ever was. Like learning how to rid food from my body in any way I could. I was reading magazines, but my parents would actually buy me magazines and say, look at this girl who has anorexia. You don't want to be her. But what I would do is I would go through and read and find out what she was doing so could do the same. So I was getting tips from anywhere I could to not ever be what I felt was going to make me unlovable. And they were sitting there telling me, everyone was like, you're going to die, you're going to get sick. You don't look good. But my brain at such an early childhood age was fixated on I need to look a certain way in order to be enough. And so the bulimia, I mean, I was a straight A student in high school and then I left high school and went to ASU for my first semester and totally failed. I had moved out of home mostly because I wanted a place to go where I could feed my addiction and not be caught or made wrong. And bulimia turned into a full on food addiction. Like it was all day every day, especially out of, out of the house. I would like go from drive through to drive through like all hours of the day, sometimes all hours of the night. If I had a roommate, like I would just disappear. And I mean there was a. I'll get very graphic here, but it's real. There was a point where I would drive around Arizona. This is after my eating disorder. And I was telling my friend, I said, there's like not a bathroom that I have not thrown up in here because I just knew where my spots were and it wasn't something where it was like, oh, I wanted that. Every day I, I would wake up in the morning feeling so guilty for the night before and I'd have the best of intentions. I'd always be like, okay, I can't do that again. I just have to restrict. Like I'm going to totally stop today. Like every day I thought I was stopping and like noon or 2 o' clock would hit and I'd be like, this isn't healthy. I just need like a half of a turkey sandwich. Ain't no harm in that. I eat the turkey sandwich and then I'd have like one more thing. It could have been an M and M or a carrot. It did not matter what the extra thing was in my mind. That extra thing that I put in my mouth was like, I just blew it all. Like now that's going to go straight here. And so then it was like, well, screw it. Yeah, I'm just saying, yes, I'm going to eat more and then get rid of it again. Right. And then I, a couple hours later I'd be like, I'm not going to do that. I'm done, I'm done. And it's just every single time I was eating I was triggered as if a drug addict was like it. If the coke addict was abstaining from coke. And they're like, okay, but I have to do one, one line because nourishes me. You can't just do one and A food addiction truly was all consuming. It lasted. I mean, it lasted until I was 25. Like, that bulimia. I hid it from my first husband. He never knew. I don't know. I don't know if he knows today. He might. But, like, I completely hit it. And I was so good getting married. I remember even when I was a loan officer and a loan processor having my routine of what I would do. So I was still. I had gotten to the point where I was, like, a functional alcoholic, right? But a functional food addict or functional bulimic. But at that point, it had completely. So many years had wreaked havoc on my teeth. Like, completely wreaked havoc. So much so that, like, later, I think it was in my marriage, I ended up getting veneers for the first time. Like, all my top teeth are veneers. I had them redone because I had ruined those ones. They look beautiful. Thank you. I love them. But, yeah, it did not really stop. And I don't want to say stop. It didn't tame itself. I did tons of therapy. I did all the things I was supposed to do. I was a professional liar to my therapist. Like, I'd come in, she'd be like, what do you binge on? I'm like. Like, prote protein bars. And because I wanted everyone to love me, including my therapist, I was there to get help. And I still could not be honest about who I was or what I was doing. But I didn't understand I needed to be. To be. To actually get help. So I. When I. When I was pregnant with my first child, is the first time in my life where I was able to tame the bulimia.

Wow.

Because in my mind, I would think this child is literally like, I am making a baby from something. Right. I can either make that baby from crap and garbage and stomach acid or the leftover nutrients after I throw up, or I can actually just go all in with this and not be selfish for once and see how it turns out. And I had just had a friend who had a baby with spina bifida because of her eating disorder. And so for me, I'm like, oh, my gosh. And it wreaked havoc on her and her family's life and that little boy. So it was a thing I didn't want. So I band aided it. Like, I was white knuckling bulimia during my first pregnancy. And then when I was nursing, I was okay, but in between, it came back, and then I was pregnant again, and I white knuckled again. And it was like every time I would white knuckle it was a little bit better. But I don't think it really started getting better until after my second child. And a lot of it was my life was busy. And I feel like in some ways I burned myself out with food because I spent a decade just consuming everything in sight. But the body dysmorphia completely still existed. And the restricting my calories and making sure I was eating properly, educating myself a little bit better so that I knew what I was putting in my body. And yeah, honestly, my healing has been such a gradual. There was not one thing right. And I can honestly sit here today, I was kind of telling you earlier, like, I am in a place where I can wholeheartedly say that my anorexia, bulimia, food issues generally are gone. Body dysmorphia creeps in because it's like I still have that little girl inside me that cares about how I look. Right. But what I believe it was was when I met Chris, my second husband, he was a trainer and he was an exercise science graduate over from asu. And so for me, spending as much time as I got to over our 13 year relationship, and especially at the beginning of the cause, he was teaching me everything he knew. Learning about what food actually does, like helping get rid of this fear that if I eat it, because I had trained people when I was 18, I would teach them what they needed, but I would never apply it to me. It took him saying, he actually said to me once, he's like, if you do what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got. Because I would say to him, I really wish I had muscle. And he's like, you're not going to build muscle, you're not going to be able to reduce the layer. I was skinny fat, as I would call it. And he's like, you're not going to get rid of that by doing cardio. You have to trust me, you have to eat enough calories to build muscle, which will then create like a metabolic furnace and reduce the layer of fat. But he's like, the best part is you don't have to, like, you don't, you don't have to do this forever. He said, if this is something you want, why don't you try it for two weeks, Eat what I tell you for two weeks, five meals a day. It's gonna feel like a ton of food. And if you don't like the results, he said, you can always go back to what wasn't working before.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, I didn't even think that. So trul. That was a light bulb moment for me, like jumping on. And it was terrifying and scary because I was putting so much food in my body and keeping it in my stomach, like, allowing it to do what it was meant to do. And for the first two weeks, I remember feeling so bloated and full and all of these things. And then as I started to gain a little bit of muscle, feeling bigger, which was scary for me. But then truly, over time, my body started to recomposition and it turned out to be a thing that I loved. Now there's more to it. I was actually. We were doing the show at the time. We ended up doing extreme weight loss, right where I was then helping people. I was also admitting my bulimia because some of the participants on the show were dealing with the same thing. So I started healing by uncovering that demon that I kept hidden from everyone. But we were doing a ton of cardio, so it was like any fear of mine was still being hidden by this cardio. Like, I was able to stay small. It honestly wasn't until I started bodybuilding that I felt like I was far more healed than before because I then I, at that point, at 35, I was very open about my past eating disorder. And it's like when we have hidden things inside of us, like if there's shame attached to anything that's going on and we're not talking about it, that shame will grow and fester and infect and manifest in other ways. But when we can actually start to let it out, we can actually begin that healing process. It's like cleaning a wound, right? Like an infected wound. So, yeah, that, that talking about it and growing. Growing my body by eating a lot of calories and getting a coach. So you said you have a food coach. I have a coach because I know I cannot trust what I see in the mirror. Right. Like, I know I can trust my coach, though, to say, yeah, you're right. Or you're. No, you're completely on track. Your mind is messing with you right now. Trust me. Right. So, yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

And I finally feel like I'm at a place where I don't. I don't even track my food anymore. I just eat what I want to eat.

Yeah. And that's something my coach talks about. She's specifically a binge eating coach. And that's. You know, food addiction has been my number one addiction for as long as I could have, remember? And then I, I, you know, kind of I starve myself, but I was still binge eating. I was still a food addict, but I would, I would binge eat like lettuce and zero calorie dressing.

Pickles. Yeah. All the things that are no calorie. Yeah, yeah.

And it was horrible and isolating and I had no friends and I wouldn't go to any events and I wouldn't go to dinners, I wouldn't go to birthday parties and I would cry myself to sleep and I would try to throw up, but I could never. I have no gag reflex. Good for men, but not for a eating disorder anyway. So, like, that never really worked. So then I was just a food addict that was just always gaining weight or, you know, and then trying to fast or. And then binge and fast. So that was more of it. And, and even today, today I still actively struggle with this issue. But I've been working with her for like four months and she's, she says, you know, it all comes from the scarcity mindset of all or nothing. You know, I either eat perfectly clean or I don't eat at all, or I binge eat everything and it's all or nothing. But I still struggle because I'm like, God, I, I try to give myself permission to have anything and have the abundance mindset and I. And now I just have anything. And so, yeah, I'm probably not like, I'm not secretly binging anymore, but I'm just eating everything in sight.

Yeah. You know, like, okay, one of. So I'm sitting here, I'm like, okay.

Yeah, no, I need help.

Here's what I like. Truly the thing that changed it for me was learning exactly what food did in your body. In my body. And how it is your best friend and how it's not just fuel, but it's also information. So actually what I. One of my favorite things that I've ever done professionally was I used to teach an eight week nutrition education course. Because when a person truly understands, like what proteins, carbs and fats do and how to kind of formulate them in a way that, like, it will help your body, you're suddenly like, oh, I'm not scared of it. We are scared of things that we don't understand. Like, we are scared of death because we don't really understand what happens after.

Right.

We're scared of stuff space because it's this big black, like it's a big abyss. Like, we don't know what's out there. We're scared when we're kids of monsters under our bed because we haven't looked yet until we, like, go in there and look. I believe the same thing with food. We are held hostage or cat. We are captives to food. We are scared of food until we understand what food really is. So part of me is like, oh, my gosh, I want to teach you. I want to teach you because I feel like if I taught you, you'd be like, wait, what? That's all that it is now? I can figure it out. You?

Yeah, I just. I. You know, she says that the restricting anything, like counting macros or counting calories or cutting anything out is just the worst thing to try to heal from a binge. A food addiction. And. But I. You know, I'm actively struggling with that because then it's. It's like, okay, nothing is off limits, and I can have whatever, but I still overeat. You know, even if I'm. No matter what I'm eating, even if it's salads or avocados or fruits or meats or anything I'm eating, I overeat it. And. And that's what's so hard. And it's like, okay, I know I want to be a size 0 or whatever. Like, I know I want my body to look like this. And I strength train every day.

Yeah.

I do a long run every weekend and a tempo run once. We. So, like, the. The exercise is not.

You got it down. Yeah.

But it's the diet. I'm like, how do I. I know I'm overeating calories more than I'm burning because I'm gaining weight. And even if I have tracked it, which I have, it's more than I should be eating. And I don't seem to have, like, that control over. It's not that I'm hungry. It's an addiction.

Yeah.

And so that's where I'm really struggling is like, I know I thrive when I feel the best in my own body. And I have the body, and I've had it before. I know I'm capable of it, but I'm trying to get there in a healthy way that isn't. You know, at this point, I don't even know how to get there without being unhealthy. Yeah. Because that's all I've known.

Yeah. That it is. I. I know exactly. I. I don't want to say exactly, because I'm not you, but I have been there in my own way. I think a lot of mine, too.

Took me and that's what's so hard. And it's like, okay, I know I want to be a size 0 or whatever. Like, I know I want my body to look like this. And I strength train every day.

Yeah.

I do a long run every weekend and a tempo run once a week. So, like, the. The exercise is not.

You got it down. Yeah.

But it's the diet. I'm like, how do I. I know I'm overeating calories more than I'm burning.

And this is something I still have to talk through and figure out. Like, there is a part of me that has an idea of what I need to look like or want to look like in order to be enough. Right. And I've had to do a lot of deconstructing around that. And, okay, what does it look like if I don't? Because I had this realization last year where he's like, holy shit. Like, if I spend my entire life trying to reverse the clock, which is what I'm doing, I'm still doing it. Right. Botox. I do filler when I want to, and I can never accept aging or a growing body for what it is. I'm gonna have the most miserable second half of my life, you know, because at some point, I'll never be able to stop those things. So, okay, what is it about me that makes me feel like I need to or. It's not even a need. It's like, I want to look a certain way. Right. And then about the macro thing. I think everyone's journey is a little bit different. I did count macros for probably three.

Or four years because I'm gaining weight. And even if I have tracked it, which I have, it's more than I should be eating. And I don't seem to have, like, that control over. It's not that I'm hungry. It's an addiction.

Yeah.

And so that's where I'm really struggling is, like, I know I thrive when I feel the best in my own body, and I have the body, and I've had it before. I know I'm capable religiously, and a.

Lot of people would have said that was unhealthy. What I loved, though, is with. In conjunction with my coach, who was having me eat 3,000 calories a day. It was amazing because I was terrified of too much. And anytime I was terrified of too much, I would overeat, too, when I would, you know, be given. Because I know how to eat a lot of food.

Yeah.

But it. It helped me. It's almost like Second nature now, like, I know I can actually. In order to compete on stage and have a body that won a pro card, I had to eat, like, I had to supplement all of the meals with protein shakes with carb powder. At night, I was doing four eggo waffles with peanut butter and syrup.

How do I do that?

I'm telling you, I honestly am like.

Of it, but I'm trying to get there in a healthy way that isn't. You know, at this point, I don't even know how to get there without being unhealthy.

Yeah.

Because that's all I know.

Part of me is like, I feel like you need a. An eating coach. I wouldn't get. Yeah. That it is. I. I know exactly. I. I don't want to say exactly because it would have. But, like, part of me wonders if a physique coach would be beneficial because I'm not you. But I have been there my own way. I think a lot of mine, too, took me. I think you might understand that in order to have the body you maybe want, you need more calories. And what happens when you tell yourself you can't have the brownie or you can't have the cookie or you can't have. Fill in the blank.

Yeah.

Like, the thing that happens when you say, I can't have this.

You want it.

That's all you think about. I spent my whole life saying, I can't have this, I can't have this, I can't have this. Which is what led to my restrict binge behaviors all of the time. When I was finally put into a situation where I could eat the foods, in fact, he would be like, have a brownie. Yeah. Have a donut after a workout. Just do a protein shake with it. To this day, I would leave before I came here, I had a protein shake and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I did. And so. And then I had egg white bites, too, because I realized I needed a little. I wanted more. I wanted something salty. So it's like, I understand, though. I'm not saying that's what you should eat every single day, but I know my. And this is something I still have to talk through and figure out. Like, there is a part of me that has an idea of what I need to look like or want to look like in order to be enough. Right. And I've had to do a lot of deconstructing around that. And. Okay, what does it look like if I don't? Because true one. I had this realization last year where he's like, holy body well enough to know that, like, if I do not restrict and I stop labeling things as good or bad because they're not good or bad if they're just what they are. Like that peanut butter and jelly sandwich is a breakdown of macronutrients. And they're going to have a role in my body that I actually know now because I've taught myself what it is. And then if I put it to work in the gym and I take the shame out of eating, I'm a lot less likely to want to overeat. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, it does. I, Yeah, I, I, There was, like.

I have a coach.

I can connect.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's just, you know, I, I feel.

Like I have a, like, if I spend my entire life trying to reverse the clock, which is what I'm doing, I'm still doing it. Right. Botox. I do filler when I want to all. And I can never accept aging or a growing body for what it limiting belief.

Or maybe just in my body, if.

I eat even is, I'm going to have the most miserable second half of my life, you know, because if I.

Eat whole foods and I allow myself to eat it, it's about 2500 calories a day, is usually what I eat. And I usually burn about 2500 calories. I have my.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm usually about the same, but at that level, I just slowly gain weight. Like, I'm, I'm clearly in a surplus. Like, I'm probably.

I think you look great, by the way.

But it's just like, I, you know, I'm friends with Whitney Jones.

I love Whitney.

And, you know, it's, it's possible, like, there's people, there's women out there who have struggled with these eating disorders, but they've, like you and like Whitney, they've figured it out where they have healed and have amazing, beautiful, strong bodies that they want that you've created and constructed. So it's just super inspiring. I don't want to make this whole thing about myself.

No, I'm kidding.

I love it.

But I'm going to say that there's a commonality between me and Whitney. We both really understand, understand nutrition. At some point, I'll never be able to stop those things. So, okay, what is it about me that makes me feel like I need to or. It's not even a need. It's like I want to look a certain way. Right. And then about the macro thing, I think everyone's journey is a Little bit different. I did count macros for probably three or four years. Like, and you don't even have to totally understand it, but that is the difference. Like, she knows she has to eat a lot and not even has to, but gets to eat a lot in order to maintain her muscle. So I'm like, okay.

I'm like, that sounds.

Maybe there's something to do it.

That's why I like strength reading. I'm like, I just want a reason to eat a lot and look good stuff. Yeah. But okay, so shifting gears here. I'm so glad that you've been able. It gives me hope, really. So thank you for sharing that. And we'll talk offline.

You can call me anytime. Anytime. Yeah.

But. Yeah. So, Cher, I know you went through. You were on the TV show as a co host, and it was a huge TV show for I don't know how many seasons you guys were.

It was five. It was all. It was six years of shooting and shows airing.

Okay, so. So what. I mean, what. Ultimately, I want to shift into relationships. Yeah.

Religious. And a lot of people would have said that was unhealthy. What I loved, though, is with. In conjunction with my coach, who was having me eat 3,000 calories a day. It was amazing because I was terrified of too much.

Because I also not speaking for you, but we have some.

And anytime I was terrified of too much, I would overeat, too. When I would, you know, similarities with.

The wanting to be perfect and the people pleasing and the masculine and the feminine and all the things. I'm like, I want to be the best woman, but also the best leader.

Yeah.

And have my business, you know, and the best friend and the best girlfriend or all these things. And I was with, you know, similar to you. I'm completely unrecognizable from when I was a younger. I mean, same core, but totally different transformation of a person. And I was with narcissist after narcissist after narcissist, which is interesting because I didn't even know what that was until years after being in these relationships. Oh, I get it.

That's what that guy was.

Yeah. But I realized, you know, I was the common denominator.

I was the one given because I. I know how to eat a lot of food.

Yeah.

But it. It helped me. It's almost like second nature now. Like, I know I can actually, in order to compete on stage and have a body that won a pro card, I had to eat. Like, I had to supplement all of.

The meals on choosing These people at the end of the day. And for freedom being something that I always wanted, like freedom and love, I was ending up in relationships time after time again that ended up being, you know, manipulation, control, all the things that I didn't want, and. And then leaving because I felt horrible. Like, the only thing harder than leaving was staying and so ultimately leaving. So what is your. Has your journey been being somebody that's the whole world would see as the girl that everybody wants? Right. You.

You're so sweet.

Well, it's true. And, yeah. Like, what has that been like for you? I know you've had. You've been divorced twice.

I have.

And then I don't know if you're.

Synced with protein shakes with carb powder at night. I was doing four eggo waffles with.

Peanut butter and goal now or not. But I'd love to kind of hear what that.

All the things.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah. When you said you were attracted to or you in syrup.

How do I do that?

I'm telling you, I honestly am. Like, I. Part of me is like, I feel like you need a. An eating coach I wouldn't get rid of. But, like, part of me wonders if a physique coach would be beneficial because kind of drew in narcissist after narcissist. I actually think I was differently. I was so hungry for love. For. I don't even want to say love, because I think there was love there, and I just. I wasn't capable of seeing it. I was so hungry to be wanted. That. And, man, any of my exes, I feel bad if they watch this or listen and they hear it, but it was like, if he walked and he liked me, then I was in a relationship with him. That was my standard. Me too. They were. I don't want to say they were nothing great because the guys all were wonderful in their own ways, but truly, it was like, if they liked me, I think you might understand that in order to have the body you maybe want, you need more calories. And what happens when you tell yourself you can't have the brownie or you can't have the cookie or you can't have fill in the blank.

Yeah.

Like, the thing that happens when you say, I can't have this. You wanted me. Then I was like. In fact, Dave. Dave was, sorry, I'm gonna put my leg up here. Right.

I hope you're okay. Oh, yeah, of course.

Dave, who is the. My ex boyfriend who passed away a couple years ago. Actually, a couple years ago next week. But He. At one point when we were dating, and he was kind of the beginning of my healing. Maybe I started my healing inside of my marriage when it was really rocky and tragic and we knew it was ending, it kind of kicked. Started me into healing. But Dave was the. That's all you think about. I spent my whole life saying, I can't have this. I can't have this. I can't have this. Which is what led to my restrict binge behaviors all of the time. When I was finally put into a situation where I could eat the foods, in fact, he would be like, have a brownie. Yeah. Have a donut. After a workout. Just do a protein shake with it. To this day, I would leave. Before I came here, I had a protein shake and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I did.

And so. And then I had egg white bites, too, because I realized I needed a little. I wanted more. I wanted something salty. So it's like, I understand, though. I'm not saying that's what you should eat every single day. But I know my first real relationship where I didn't. Honestly, it was same kind of a thing. Like, if I'm being honest now, I met him and he liked me, and I was like, oh, okay. But it really evolved into something awesome. He treated me. He was the first man to truly treat me like a queen. I mean, like, he just waited on me hand and foot. I'd never experienced that. I have experienced that since, but I didn't even know that feeling. I didn't even know I could be treated like that. I didn't know that I could be anything other than masculine in a relationship because I was so masculine, because I had to be, right? I had to make money for the family, all these different things because of these relationships that I previously had. Dave was the first that was like a warm hug. But at one point, he had said to me, he's like, you know that book when we're kids, we're like, there's the crane, the baby crane. I don't even know what it. But I think it, like, the. The baby crane is hatched and opens its eyes, and the first thing it looks at, it says, are you my mother?

Right.

And it's not even, like, its actual mother. And that's what happens when these animals are small and they hatch. The first thing they look at is, like, the thing that they start to bond to, and they think it's their mother. And so he's like, I don't get how you chose me. I kind of feel like you're that crane that just looked at me and said, are you my mother? Like, are you my, my perfect match? And I didn't tell him at the time, but when he said it, I'm like, shit, he's right. Like that's what I've been doing my entire life. It's like the next man to come into my life, I can find a way to love anyone. I feel like I have such a big heart and I, if, especially if that person is perceived negatively by other people, I feel like I can see in them what other people can't.

Me too.

And so then I become their, like their biggest advocate and I fall deeply in love with someone who will inevitably be a tragic part body well enough to know that like if I do not restrict and I stop labeling things as good or bad because they're not good or bad. If they're just what they are. Like that peanut butter and jelly sandwich is a breakdown of macronutrients. And they're going to have a role in my body that I actually know now because I've taught myself what it is. And then if I reform me, you know. And so that's a real thing. Yes. I married. I, I, I got really lucky to stumble upon Chris and I've told him that so many times. I'm like, I am so lucky that like you are the guy that I ran into. Chris is my ex husband that I did the show with and I had two kids with. I said, I am so glad because it would have been anyone, like it would have been the next guy. And I'm so lucky because so much of my personal growth came from that relationship with him. So much of who I am and uncovering my potential which I didn't think I was meant for anything great. And it just, I accidentally stumbled into working my ass off, stepping out of real estate and creating a show and eventually being a co host of the show with him. I put it to work in the gym and I take the shame out of eating. I'm so. It completely changed my life. And how he is as a co parent is like phenomenal. How we co parent together and can communicate about the really hard, a lot less likely to want to overeat. Does that make sense?

Yeah. No, it does.

Hard things is like, it's one of the greatest gifts. So I got really lucky that I.

Yeah, I, there was like, I have a coach. I can connect.

Energy, sweet.

It's just, you know, I feel like.

I haven't stumbled upon him, but he and I were not he never really wanted to be married. And it was like a. Oh, you don't want to be married. In my mind, I was like, I'm going to change his mind. I need him to know how amazing life can be, because I have this picture in my head of what a perfect life looks like. And it looks like a strong marriage where the husband and the wife have a great relationship and they raise these kids, and there's so much joy that comes from it. But that was my picture, not his. And I did talk him into marrying me. It wasn't like a romantic type of thing, and we had a great relationship in so many ways. And also, it wasn't meant to be.

Limiting belief, or maybe just in my body, if I eat, or even if I eat whole Foods and I allow myself to eat it, it's about 2500 calories a day is usually what I eat. And I usually burn about 2500 calories. I have my.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm usually about the same, but at that level, I just slowly gain weight.

Like, I. I am currently in a relationship.

For how long?

Well. Okay. So we're gonna get real here. Okay.

Okay.

No one really knows this, so.

Oh, my gosh. Well, this won't get released for two months, so hopefully we never know. Yeah, we never know.

And here's why. We don't know this guy. And I. I can't believe I'm saying this on here, but whatever. We have been dating for a year and a half. What? Hannah, I hope he never watches it.

I'm sure he won't.

No, actually, he would, and he'd be okay with it now, but we broke up no fewer than 10 times. I'm not kidding you. And the last breakup was.

So I'm clearly in a surplus. Like, I'm probably.

I think you look great. Like, just beautiful and hard for both of us. And it may. It had me realizing, like, I think we both. In us. We. We recently came back together. And it's.

But it's just like, I. You know, I'm friends with Whitney Jones.

I love Whitney.

And she. You know, it's. It's possible. Like, there's people, there's women out there who have struggled with these eating disorders, but they've. Like you and, like, Whitney, they've figured it out where they.

And phenomenal, because we both kind of released each other for our own healing. And I was like, I am never. I will never be with that man again. And I meant it. And in his mind, he thought, I'm not meant for relationships is kind of what he thought. He. We just spoke a different language. Right. Like, I wanted him to see me a certain way. He wanted me to see him a certain way. And what I didn't realize was I had so much of my own healing to do. It was like, the breakup was October 14th, and I dove so deep into my own healing that I'll share with you off camera, but it was just the most beautiful.

I have healed and have amazing, beautiful.

Strong, beautiful thing where I was focusing on me and I saw things that I. They were blind spots that I'd never been aware of before in my life where I started healing and taking my power back and, like, finding peace and happiness. I am the happiest I've ever been in my life ever. Ever since, like, November. I'm not kidding you.

And he bodies that they want that you've created and constructed. So it's just super inspiring. I don't want to make this whole thing about myself as, you know. I'm kidding. I love it.

But I'm gonna say that there's a commonality between me and Whitney. We both really understand understand nutrition. We weren't talking. He actually enrolled in the same self development course that Chris and I met at wow. In 2008.

That's awesome.

So he had heard me talk about it. He kind of hit his own rock bottom, and he ended up going to. It's a place called Landmark. Oh, I've heard of that. Oh. See? And I feel like anyone who hasn't done that, I have a hard time communicating with because there's a lack of awareness. And the language really is different. Like, if you're not aware of where you like and you don't even have to totally understand it, but that is the difference. Like, your rackets and your stories or whatever, and a lot of different therapy has different words for these things, but he ended up going through it, and who he came out as was like, she knows she has to eat a lot and not even has to, but gets to eat a lot in order to maintain her muscle. So I'm like, okay.

Yeah.

I'm like, that sounds disgust. I mean, it was like someone went in him and turned the lights on and him reaching out to me. And we. The conversations we've been able to have and the things we've been able to dive into, and there's nothing to do it.

That's why I like strength training. I'm like, I just want a reason to eat a lot and look good. Yes.

How open and expressive he And I have been able to be with each other is like, Hannah, it's everything I have ever wanted that I did not know that I would ever find. And if I found it, I didn't think I'd be attracted to the guy. And if I was, I didn't think he'd like me back. Right. And here's the thing. He's the most masculine dude you've ever met in your life. And so I think there's a part of me, I've never had someone so masculine and alpha and alpha together. If I can't, you know, step into my feminine and he can't kind of allow for my masculine occasionally. It was a lot of headbutting, and it was.

Yeah, yeah. But okay, so shifting gears here, like.

I. I'm used to needing to be the one to care for my family.

I'm so glad that you've been able. It gives me hope, really. So thank you for sharing that. And we'll talk offline.

You can call me anytime about this. Anytime. Yeah.

But. Yeah. So, Cher, I know you went through. You were on the TV show as.

A co host, and it was to take care of my kids, make the money or whatever it is. And while that's something that he admired and loved so much about me, it was really hard to have a woman who didn't need him. And I. What I've learned a lot is that the masculine and feminine really does have to be in balance. Right. Like, I don't really always want. I'm a very masculine female.

Very.

However, that's not something. It's like, I want to be that way. It's. I've had to be that way. And there's nothing more attractive or beautiful or enticing to me than the idea of a man who can provide emotional safety for me so much that I can sink into my feminine and like, actually be that. Like, I am a nurturer, I'm a lover, I'm a. All these things, but I've actually never had it. So this newer portion is a huge.

TV show for I don't know how many seasons you guys were.

It was five. It was all. It was six years of shooting and shows airing.

Okay, so. So what. I mean, what. Ultimately I want to shift into relationships.

Of our relationship is like all of that it. And I can be.

Because I also not speaking for you.

But we have some totally honest about who. I never felt like I could authentically be who I was before. And I am like, all of me. And like, he just turned 50 yes. Two days ago. And I'm 42 and it's. I feel like we are able to be kids together. It's so much fun.

That is so amazing to hear. And it's. I have a similar, you know, my partner and lots of things in life we've gone the same thing. Like we dated for a little bit, but we were best friends and we broke up and we went on these healing journeys and it's so crazy to see how many people have so much healing to do and how much we have to do. And you start to peel back the layers of the onion and to have somebody that's doing their own similarities with the wanting to be perfect and the people pleasing and the on the masculine and the feminine and all the things I'm like, I want to be the best woman but also the best leader.

Yeah.

And have my business, you know, journey. And they're not, you know, I think so many people are they trauma bond. Yes. Which is what we had originally done in the beginning with us. Yeah. It's like, oh, I understand this pain. I get your pain and you like me and I like you and this feels good. And. And. But yeah, the healing journey is so important. If so if people aren't doing the work.

Yeah.

And it's a lifelong journey and the best friend and the best girlfriend or all these things. And I was with, you know, similar to you. I'm completely unrecognizable. I like, I don't see myself ever with somebody in ever that's not full blown personal development. Doing the work, going to therapy, you know, all the things. Because how do you show up your best for somebody if you're not healed and your nervous system is, you know, a wreck? So I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy.

Yeah. How can you, how can you talk through things? You know, you need to be able to have someone that understands the path and is interested in growth, true authenticity and community. So your relationship now is good?

Yeah, yeah, it's good. Well, we have an unconventional from when I was a younger. I mean same core but totally different transformation of a relationship. But it's amazing. Like he's somebody that just actually same thing. I'm always person and I was with narcissist after narcissist after narcissist which is been masculine. Not because I wanted to. I just always thought I wanted to, but it was because I had to.

Yeah.

And I think every true like my. I did some plant medicine journeys and my shaman was said that the, the Feminine was starving in me. And she didn't. Interesting, because I didn't even know what that was until years after being in these relationships. I get it.

That's what that guy was.

Yeah. But really?

Yeah. Plant medicine journeys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my gosh. So much to talk about. I wish it wasn't already an hour, but yeah. And it's. She said that I would never reach my full potential and be fulfilled if I continue to starve my feminine. And. But I never trusted a man because I continued to create the support of my hypothesis that men couldn't be trusted. Nobody was there for me. Nobody was going to save me. I had to take care of myself. Nobody was going to love me. And so I continued to create those situations in those relationships in my life. And same thing. If they had a heartbeat and an interest in me, that I was dating them. Yeah. Yeah. And I realized, you know, I was the common denominator. I was the one choosing these people at the end of the day and for freedom, being something that I always wanted, like freedom and love. I was ending up in relationships time after time again that ended up being, you know, manipulation, control. And my boyfriend, now, he was what happened to be one of those people that ended up being the first person that showed me actual, like, unconditional love and support and didn't only stand by me, but, like, stood for me and wanted to support everything, all my dreams and not crush any of them and not clip my wings, but also supported me in that and, like, was okay to be the man or okay to step down and. And let me be more alpha. And so it's such a beautiful feeling. And same thing. I didn't think that that ever existed, but I still have massive roadblocks. Like, I'm still like, no marriage, no kids, no. You know, so I'm like, all the things that I. I didn't want and. And then leaving because I felt horrible. Like, the only thing harder than leaving was staying. I have a lot of ways.

We all do. We all do. Yeah. And maybe those aren't terrible things. Right. Like, who says you have to be married? Who says you have to have kids? That might be a beautiful gift in your life.

Yeah. I won't even live with somebody. Oh, no. Okay.

Right now, you know, you're like, oh, well, that one. Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

And so ultimately leaving. So what is your. Has your journey been being somebody that's the whole world would see as the girl that everybody wants? Right.

I don't blame you, though. I think you're. We all set boundaries or callous?

A little.

Not callous. But we're protecting ourselves from where we felt hurt before.

Yeah.

And that's. You know, I'm sure there was hurt in some way in your life that had you feeling like you don't want to go in a certain direction. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think so too. And it's just trying to figure out what is your lizard brain trying to protect yourself and what is wisdom of, oh, maybe I should do it a little bit differently. But it's. It's tough because I found that I just love freedom so much, and if I'm. And again, I don't.

You're so sweet.

Well, it's true. And. Yeah. Like, what has that been like for you? I know you've had. You've been divorced twice.

I have.

And then I don't know if you're single. Know if this is just my lizard brain. But currently in my life, my journey today is if I. In all the situation. I've always dated a guy, lived with the guy, or they lived with me. Like, we were always together all the time. They were my whole life. I didn't really have anything outside of them.

Like, you became them, Right? Yeah.

Yep. Angle now or not, but I'd love to kind of hear what that.

All the things.

Yeah.

Yeah. So when you said you were attracted to or you.

And it was. It became so suffocating, and I was so confused as to who I was or what I wanted. And now is to have my freedom and my space and my independence and my own goals and my own dreams. And, you know, I'm not them. I'm not this other person. It feels so freeing. And I'm like, I don't think I ever want to give that up again.

And I don't think you should get off of that wave until you feel like it's done. You know what I'm saying? And that's the beautiful part about I. I would say humans, but I feel like especially females like us women, there's such a beautiful evolution. Like, who I am today is so different than who I was at 20 or 30. Like, who I am today kind of drew in narcissist after narcissist. I actually think I was differently. I was so hungry for love, for so different than I was a year ago, two years ago. And as I. I don't even want to say love, because I think there was love there. And I just. I wasn't capable of Seeing it, I was shift. I allow myself space for things to shift as well. Like my shaman actually has this. She always reminds me. She says, what's true today won't necessarily be true tomorrow. And what was true yesterday is not true today. And I know hungry to be wanted that and love that. And it allows me to kind of sit in the space of like, nothing is right or wrong. Like if I want to be in a relationship now or I don't or I want to live with someone right now or I don't. And I feel like I never do great. Like, you be in this space right now and then life, you know, you'll shift, you'll change. And maybe that never changes. And maybe it does and your life is going to be perfect. Exactly how it rolls out.

Yeah. Were you open to talk about the plan?

Any of my exes, I feel bad if they watch this or listen and they hear it.

Medicine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Because that. Honestly, the. And by plant medicine, I'm talking about psilocybin. Same. Yeah. That was the biggest thing, as you mentioned. It's not just one thing in this healing journey. That's a whole.

But it was like if he walked and he liked me, then I was in a relationship with him. That was my standard. Me too. I don't want to say they were nothing great because the guys all these different things.

But that was the biggest thing for me that really shifted. Like, I came out of that first one and my so much resentment had lifted. I had such a greater clarity for my family and an empathy for all the people that had hurt me and realized it. It wasn't about me. You know, it's like they have their own pain and suffering. And it just gave me such an expansive view on the world. It truly changed me. So, like, what was that experience like for you?

So I've done two of them and they are like, you know, I don't understand what people say when they're like, oh, I do that for fun.

Oh, I don't either.

Not fall were wonderful in their own ways, but truly it was like if they liked me. Like, I. In fact, my last one. I did my last one was to me then I was like, in fact, Dave. Dave was sorry, I'm going to put my leg up here right. 12 years ago. And I know it's time for another one.

Yeah.

Because I know that I'm in such a different space now. So I'm really curious what the medicine will show me. And that's what it is.

I hope you're curious. Oh, yeah, of course.

Dave, who is the. Like, the medicine shows you what you need to be taught at the time, right? My ex boyfriend who passed away a couple years ago, actually.

A couple shows you what you're running. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, what's interesting is the very first time, my most profound was the second. I mean, they were both profound. But my first time, it was the first time ever where I could. So Dave had told me how beautiful I was, how lovable I was. Right. I heard it from somebody else, and I thought that I needed to hear it from somebody else. My first psilocybin journey was the first time I was. I, like, looked in the mirror and I saw me and I was like, you are so beautiful. Like, I actually remember having a moment years ago next week. But at one point when we were dating and he was kind of the beginning of my healing, maybe I started my healing inside of my marriage when it was really rocky and tragic, where I was like, I saw my beauty. Maybe the way that Dave saw my beauty. And we knew it was ending, it kind of kickstarted me into healing. But Dave was the. And my biggest lesson coming out of that one was no man will ever love me as much as I need to and do love myself. So, like, that was the first time I felt true love for all of the parts of me that I previously had. First real relationship where I didn't. Honestly, it was the same kind of a thing. Like, if I'm being honest now, shame for. So the things like the mistakes I'd made, my eating disorder, whatever, it was like, they were all there and present with me. All of those things were like humans, right? They were like souls that I got to spend time with and learn to love. Now, my second one was really difficult. Like, it was. They were both really hard. Even though that one seemed easy based on what I shared. And inside of those journeys, like, my. I was trying to explain it to my shaman, but, like, I became the emotion. Like, I. I am like, I. Instead of me crying, I was the teardrops. Oh, I met him and he liked me, and I was like, oh, okay. But it really. That I was. I felt like we were like one, right? And that there evolved into something awesome. He treated me. He was the first man to truly treat me like a queen. I mean, like, he just waited on me. There was so much shame that was in front of me in that one. Like, every mistake I'd ever made where I'd hurt somebody else, I was like inside of an Experience where I was feeling how I made that bend and foot. I'd never experienced that. I have experienced that since. But I didn't even know that feeling. I didn't even know I could be treated like that. I didn't know that I could be anything other than masculine in a relationship because I was so masculine. Because I had to be, right? I had to make money for the family, all these different things, because of these relationships that I had previously had. Dave was the first. That was like a warm hug. But at one point, he had said to me, he's like, you know that book when we're kids, we're like, there's the crane, the baby crane. I. I don't even know what it. But I think it, like, the. The baby crane is hatched and opens its eyes, and the first thing it looks at is it says, are you my mother?

Right?

And it's not only that person feel, but how I made the people feel that were connected to that person. And it was like this. Like, consequences was like, a theme where I realized that every single thing I do, there's. There's a reaction. And it could be a positive consequence or a negative consequence. And it was like I was just plagued with how I'd hurt people or decisions that I'd made. And it was beautiful because I got to. I. Actually, after that, that experience, I, like, called a handful of people who had already apologized to or whatever, but. And I never hurt anyone intentionally, but it's like being human sometimes is hurting people. And I was able to say, oh, my gosh. Like, I feel like I felt how you felt when I did this. And I cannot say sorry enough. So that helped release some serious. Like, once I was able to feel it all and communicate it, my shame. For certain ways that I had been in my life were completely released. And interestingly, inside of that one, I had an experience with death inside of it, where it was like death was on me, upon me. And I remember thinking in that moment, oh, my gosh. And I was just so sad because I'm like, I'm gonna die. Like, this is a sign that I'm gonna die. And I had. Dave was in the journey with me in the shaman, and the shaman was helping me explain to him what I was sad about. And I said, not even, like, its actual mother. And that's what happens when these animals are small and they hatch. Our souls are gonna part. And I think I'm gonna die. And I don't think it's gonna be long from now. And it Was really hard for both of us to sit in that moment. And it was like we were grieving the loss of each other. And, you know, fast forward to seven months later, he passed away. And it was a consequence of some actions that I know he wasn't proud of. And so it was like, the first thing they look at is, like, the thing that they start to bond to, and they think it's their mother. And so with my medicine journey, like, it was like I was being prepared for what was to come. And that journey actually was the catalyst of a lot of changes in my life. Like, we were. I was drinking a lot more than I normally would have. Like, I don't get how you chose me. I kind of feel like you're that crane that just looked at me and said, are you my mother? Like, are you my. My perfect match? And I. There were a lot of things happening that I was like, I'm done. Consequences. I'm done. I'm cleaning up my life. I didn't tell him at the time, but when he said it, I'm like, he's right. Like, that's what I've been doing my entire life. Completely. I'm gonna make myself somebody that I'm proud of, because I'm not right now. And, yeah, it was interesting. And I. Because I thought I was going to die. And then when he passed, it was this big, like, holy shit. Like, the world, the universe, and God. It. If it's like the next man to come into my life, I can find a way to. It brings you what you need when you need it most. You know, that's insane.

That.

And I've never really shared that, so.

Thank you for sharing that. What was it like to experience that loss?

Oh, my gosh. I. That was. Now, let me say that you love anyone. I feel like I have such a big heart, and I. If. Especially if that person is perceived negatively by other people, I feel like I can see in them what other people can't.

Me too.

And so then I. Because, thankfully, because of that medicine journey that he and I had together, and what it kick started in me, which was panic, depression, all the things that I went through after that, it put me in a place where I was working on myself and connected with God more than ever before when he passed. Thankfully, because if I did not have that, I don't know where I would be today. That was the hardest loss of my life. He was, to that point, the only person who ever really saw me and knew me and loved me and appreciated, like, every ounce of who I was. He hung their, like their biggest advocate. And I fall deeply in love with someone who will inevitably be a tragic part. Just like I couldn't have done anything wrong in his eyes. And so to have someoneer for me, you know. And so that's a real thing. Yes. I married. I. I got really lucky. To stumble upon who meant so much to me and we. I had such a deep connection with go was really hard. And it, in fact it's the reason why I shut down most of my businesses because I was like, man, like Dave took his last breath, you know, the night I talked to him the night before. I don't know when mine's going to be and I. I do not want to leave this earth being so stretched thin and not being the mom that I'm proud of and not having connected family friend and family relationships. So I made a massive shift and I truly like dove in and trusted God and said okay, if this is the path I'm supposed to be on, support me and making my family first and getting rid of all this. And I've told him that so many times. I'm like, I am so lucky that like you are the guy that I ran into. Chris is my ex husband that I did the show with and I had two kids with. I said I'm the things I thought I needed in order to be enough or all the things I thought I needed to do to make enough money. Hannah, I have been so provided for. I'm not kidding you. So glad because it would have been anyone like it would have been the next guy. And I'm so lucky. It is real when I. I don't want to speak for everybody, but when I. Because so much of my personal growth came from that relationship with him. So much of walk in a path that I know God wants me on. I am so taken care of. And it was really hard, you know, but. And I would say it for about a year and a couple months after I was in this, I would call it my dark winter. Like I was just flat. I was sad. I like, was trying to have a new relationship and I was, you know, all I. I was still posting about Dave online because I just. Which couldn't have felt good to the guy that I broke up with 10 times. Right. Like a lot of the ways I was being, I. It was unhealed grief that I didn't know who I am and uncovering my potential, which I didn't think I was meant for anything great. And it just. I accidentally stumbled into Working my ass off, stepping out of real estate and creating a show and eventually being a co host of the show with him. How to let out. And I had more healing that I did last year that like helped pull me out of it. But it was really hard for me. Yeah. And also, you know, it's like, so it completely changed my life. And how he is as a co parent is like, I, I believe it's that Justin Bieber song. Like, some people come in your life for a reason, others they come in your life for a season. Right, Dave? And I can even say he's a lifetime. He was in my life for a reason for a season and he'll forever be with me in the ways. And also he really had struggles that plagued him on a daily basis with addiction and alcoholism. And he's in peace now. He really, he, he never felt it. Right.

Yeah. So thank you for sharing.

Yeah.

You're just such a beautiful human and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to get to know you more. And I would talk to you for 16 more hours. We'll continue. So, but thank you. Thank you for being here. Last question I want to close out with. If you could give advice to your younger self, what would it be okay.

If I could give advice to my younger self. I recently answered this question. I don't remember what I said. Here's what I will say. Because I've done a lot of inner child work where I go back and actually have a conversation with my younger self. I think what I would want her to know is that everything works out beautifully. All of the pain, all of the struggle, all of the things that don't make any sense at all right now will soon. Like all the things you're not proud of, all the shame you feel. Give it time and just keep going. Like I, I, I have gotten so emotional thinking about, you know, if I could have shown my 18 year old self or my 16 year old self who I am right now. Like if I could go back and actually hug her and have her see that, like this is the life that I get to live. Like every day I get to wake up and I get to love my family and love who I am and be so grateful for everything I have in my life. Like, man, I never, never in a million years would have guessed it. So I just tell her it all works out. It does, it does.

Thank you, Heidi.

You're welcome. Thank you.

That was so good. I love you.

I love you too.

Give me a hug.

Phenomenal how we co parent together. And can communicate about the hard things is like. It's one of the greatest gifts. So I got really lucky that I stumbled upon him, but he and I were not.

I.

He never really wanted to be married, and it was like a. Oh, you don't want to be married. In my mind, I was like, I'm going to change his mind. I need him to know how amazing life can be, because I have this picture in my head of what a perfect life looks like. And it looks like a strong marriage where the husband and the wife have a great relationship and they raise these kids, and there's so much joy that comes from it. But that was my picture, not his. And I did talk him into marrying me. It wasn't like a romantic type of thing, and we had a great relationship in so many ways. And also, it wasn't meant to be. I am currently in a relationship.

For how long?

Well, okay. So we're gonna get real here. Okay? Yeah.

Okay.

No one really knows this, so.

Oh, my gosh. Well, this won't get released for two.

Months, so hopefully we never know.

Yeah, we never know.

And here's why. We don't know this guy. And I. I can't believe I'm saying this on here, but whatever. We have been dating for a year and a half. What? Hannah, I hope he never watches it.

I'm sure he won't.

No, actually, he would, and he'd be okay with it now, but we broke up no fewer than 10 times. I'm not kidding you. And the last breakup was so, like, just beautiful and hard for both of us. And it may. It had me realizing, like, I think we both, in us, we recently came back together, and it been phenomenal because we both kind of released each other for our own healing. And I was like, I am never. I will never be with that man again. And I meant it. And in his mind, he thought, I'm not meant for relationships. It's kind of what he thought. He. We just spoke a different language, right? Like, I wanted him to see me a certain way. He wanted me to see him a certain way. And what I didn't realize was I had so much of my own healing to do. It was like the breakup was October 14th, and I dove so deep into my own healing that I'll share with you off camera. But it was just the most beautiful thing where I was focusing on me and I saw things that I. They were blind spots that I'd never been aware of before in my life where I started healing and taking my power back and, like, finding peace and happiness. I am the happiest I've ever been in my life ever. Ever since, like, November. I'm not kidding. You and he. We weren't talking. He actually enrolled in the same self development course that Chris and I met at wow. In 2008.

That's awesome.

So he had heard me talk about it. He kind of hit his own rock bottom, and he ended up going to. It's a place called Landmark. Oh, I heard of that. Oh, see? And I feel like anyone who hasn't done that, I have a hard time communicating with because there's a lack of awareness. And the language really is different. Like, if you're not aware of where your rackets and your stories or whatever, and a lot of different therapy has different words for these things. But he ended up going through it, and who he came out as was just. I mean, it was like someone went in him and turned the lights on. And him reaching out to me and we. The conversations we've been able to have and the things we've been able to dive into and how open and expressive he and I have been able to be with each other is like, Hannah, it's everything I have ever wanted that I did not know that I would ever find. And if I found it, I didn't think I'd be attracted to the guy. And if I was, I didn't think he'd like me back. Right. And here's the thing. He's the most masculine dude you've ever met in your life. And so I think there's a part of me, I've never had someone so masculine and alpha and alpha together. If I can't, you know, step into my feminine, and he can't kind of allow for my masculine occasionally, it was a lot of headbutting, and it was like, I. I'm used to needing to be the one to care for my family, to take care of my kids, make the money or whatever it. And while that's something that he admired and loved so much about me, it was really hard to have a woman who didn't need him. And what I've learned a lot is that the masculine and feminine really does have to be in balance. Right. Like, I don't really always want. I'm a very masculine female.

Very.

However, that's not something. It's like, I want to be that way. It's. I've had to be that way. And there's nothing more attractive or beautiful or enticing to me than the idea of a Man who can provide emotional safety for me so much that I can sink into my feminine and like, actually be that. Like, I am a nurturer, I'm a lover, I'm a all these things, but I've actually never had it. So this newer portion of our relationship is like all of that it. And I can be totally honest about who I never felt like I could authentically be who I was before. And I am like, all of me. And like he just turned 50. Yes. Two days ago. And I'm 42 and it's. I feel like we are able to be kids together. It's so much fun.

That is so amazing to hear. And I have a similar, you know, my partner and lots of things in life we've gone same thing. Like we dated for a little bit, but we were best friends and we broke up and we, we went on these healing journeys and it's so crazy to see how many people have so much healing to do and how much we have to do. And you start to peel back the layers of the onion and to have somebody that's doing their own journey and they're not. You know, I think so many people are they. Trauma bond.

Yes.

Which is what we had originally done in the beginning with us. Yeah. It's like, oh, I understand this pain. I get your pain and you like me and I like you and this feels good. But yeah, the healing journey is so important if you, if people aren't doing the work and it's a lifelong journey. I like, I don't see myself ever with somebody in ever that's not full blown personal development. Doing the work, going to therapy, you know, all the things. Because how do you show up your best for somebody if you're not healed and your nervous system is, you know, a wreck? So I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy to hear that.

Yeah. How can you, how can you talk through things? You know, you need to be able to have someone that understands the path and is interested in growth, true authenticity and community. So your relationship now is good?

Yeah, yeah, it's good. Well, we have an unconventional relationship, but it's amazing. Like, he's somebody that just actually same thing. I've always been masculine. Not because I wanted to, I just always thought I wanted to, but it was because I had to. Yeah. And I think every true. Like my. I did some plant medicine journeys and my shaman was said that the, the feminine was starving in me and she didn't know me. Really.

Yeah. Plant medicine journeys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, My gosh, there's so much to talk about. I wish it wasn't already an hour, but. Yeah. And it's. She said that I would never reach my full potential and be fulfilled if I continue to starve my feminine and by. I never trusted a man because I continued to create the support of my hypothesis that men couldn't be trusted. Nobody was there for me. Nobody was going to save me. I had to take care of myself. Nobody was going to love me. And so I continued to create those situations in those relationships in my life. And same thing, if they had a heartbeat and an interest in me, that I was dating them. Yeah. And. And my boyfriend, now, he was what happened to be one of those people that ended up. Up being the first person that showed me actual, like, unconditional love and support and didn't only stand by me, but, like, stood for me and wanted to support everything, all my dreams and not crush any of them and not clip my wings, but also supported me in that and, like, was okay to be the man or okay to step down and. And let me be more alpha. And so it's such a beautiful feeling. And same thing. I didn't think that that ever existed, but I still have massive roadblocks. Like, I'm still like, no marriage, no kids, no. You know, so I'm like, I have a long way.

We all do. We all do. Yeah. And maybe those aren't terrible things. Right. Like, who says you have to be married? Who says you have to have kids? That might be a beautiful gift in your life.

Yeah. I won't even live with somebody. Oh, no, that's okay.

Right now, you know, you're like, oh, well, that one.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, I don't blame you, though. I think you're. We all set boundaries or callous. A little not callous, but we're protecting ourselves from where we felt hurt before.

Yeah.

And that's. You know, I'm sure there was hurt in some way in your life that had you feeling like you don't want to go in a certain direction. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think so too. And it's just trying to figure out what is. Is your lizard brain trying to protect yourself and what is wisdom of, oh, maybe I should do it a little bit differently. But it's. It's tough because I found that I just love freedom so much, and if I'm. And again, I don't know if this is just my lizard brain, but currently in my life My journey today is if I. In all the situation, I've always dated a guy, lived with the guy, or they lived with me. Like, we were always together all the time. They were my whole life. I didn't really have anything outside of them.

Like, you became them, right? Yeah.

Yep. And it was. It became so suffocating, and I was so confused as to who I was or what I wanted. And now is to have my freedom and my space and my independence and my own goals and my own dreams. And, you know, I'm not them. I'm not this other person. It feels so freeing. And I'm like, I don't think I ever want to give that up again.

And I don't think you should get off of that wave until you feel like it's done. You know what I'm saying? And that's the beautiful part about I. I would say humans, but I feel like, especially females like us women, there's such a beautiful evolution. Like, who I am today is so different than who I was at 20 or 30. Like, who I am today is so different than I was a year ago, two years ago. And as I shift, I allow myself space for things to shift as well. Like, my shaman actually has this. She always reminds me, she says, what's true today won't necessarily be true tomorrow. And what was true yesterday is not true today. And I love that. And it allows me to kind of sit in the space of, like, nothing is right or wrong. Like, if I want to be in a relationship now or I don't, or I want to live with someone right now or I don't. And I feel like I never do. Great. Like, you be in this space right now, and then you. Life, you know, you'll shift, you'll change. And maybe that never changes. And maybe it does, and your life is going to be perfect. Exactly how it rolls out.

Yeah. Were you open to talk about the plant medicine? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because that. Honestly, the. And by plant medicine, I'm talking about psilocybin. Same. Yeah.

Yeah.

That was the biggest thing. As you mentioned, it's not just one thing in this healing journey. It's a whole. All these different things. But. But that was the biggest thing for me that really shifted. Like, I came out of that first one and my. So much resentment had lifted. I had such a greater clarity for my family and empathy for all the people that had hurt me and realized it wasn't about me. You know, like, they have their own pain and suffering, and it just gave me such an expansive view on the world. It truly changed me. So, like, what was that experience like for you?

So I've done two of them and they are like, you know, I don't understand what people say when they're like, oh, I do that for fun.

Oh, I don't either.

Not fun, horrible. Like, I. In fact, my last one, I did. My Last 1 was 2 1/2 years ago, and I know it's time for another one.

Yeah.

Because I know that I'm in such a different space now, so I'm really curious what the medicine will show me. And that's what it is like. The medicine shows you what you need to be taught at the time. Right.

Shows you what you're running. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, what's interesting is the very first time I. My most profound was the second. I mean, they were both profound, but my first time, it was the first time ever where I could. So Dave had told me how beautiful I.