E01: Interview With Harvey Mackay- Part One

Thanks for joining us today on Street Smarts with Harvey Mackay, where the biggest room in the world is the room for improvement. And now here's your host, managing partner and co founder of harveymckayacademy.com, cliff Jones.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Cliff Jones, CEO, managing partner of Harvey McKay Academy. And today with us is Harvey McKay Hemste. Harvey, good morning and welcome.

Good morning, Cliff. And I'm excited and looking forward to this.

Well, this is the kickoff of the Harvey McKay University 2.0, as we're calling it. And anybody watching this interview today is going to learn over the course of the next hour or so a lot about how you got started and how you became the legendary leader that you are today. I think it would be appropriate to begin with a thorough introduction so everybody watching today knows as much as possible about you. So I'm going to read your bio and share with the audience. You're a best selling author, New York Times Number 1 Best Selling Author of Swim with the sharks without being eaten alive. And beware the naked man who offers you his shirt. Both books are among the top 15 inspirational books of all time, according to the New York Times. Your New York Times best selling books have sold 10 million copies worldwide, translated into 46 languages, sold in 80 countries. That's hard to believe. You're a nationally syndicated columnist. Your weekly articles appear in nearly 100 newspapers across the country. Today, as a speaker, you're one of America's most popular and entertaining business speakers. Toastmasters International named you one of the top five speakers in the world, along with Tony Robbins. You've spoken weekly to Fortune 1000 companies around the world for more than 30 years. And you've been a guest lecturer at various universities and business schools including Harvard, Stanford, University of Michigan, Cornell, Wharton and Penn State. From a business perspective, you started at age 26 versus a small failing envelope company that's grown to $100 million. Business today employing over 450 people. McKay Mitchell Envelope Company. You are one of the nation's today still leading envelope manufacturers, producing 25 million envelopes a day. Unbelievable. Again, as chairman of the board, your philosophy is ingrained in the company, beginning with the motto, do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promise. As a community leader, you. You currently sit on the board of Minnesota Orchestra and the Naismith Basketball hall of Fame. You're a former director for the Robert Redford Sundance Institute and the University of Minnesota Carlson School of Management. Quite an athlete, too. In spite of your hectic schedule, you still find plenty of time for your family and fun. Avid golfer, 9.4 index. I still want my $15 back from the last time I lost to you. And. And you won the senior men's championship at the Estancia Golf Club in Scottsdale. You've also run over 10 marathons, which I've never even attempted in my life as a family man. You and your wife Carol Ann, have been married for over 50 years and enjoy spending time with now 11 grandchildren. You're avid travelers and you're touring eight countries over the next several months. Is that what it is?

Correct.

Yeah. So obviously it's a pleasure to have you here today and be able to talk through how you got started. Let's jump right into the questions I've laid out for you because I'm really looking forward to asking you these. Tell everybody. What was it like growing up in St. Paul? Minneapolis, Minnesota, approximately 100 years ago?

Typical neighborhood, just like suburbia. Neighbors talking to everyone, playing kickball out in the street again, everyone helping everyone else. A little bit different in the 50s and 60s when you're growing up. My parents were totally geniuses, though. Just get this. In our little home, which was approximately 8, $9,000 home. I have my own bedroom for the first time. We moved from a duplex. So this was, you know, I was king of the mountain at that time. Listen to what they did. Very, very tricky. In the basement, very small basement I had for my friends and myself, ping pong table, pool table, jukebox, all right. Slot machine. And then outdoors, if you can believe it or not, had a trampoline. Why did they do that? All the action was at my place. They knew the kinds of persons that I was going around with. I thought that was quite, quite brilliant. And I was the most popular kid, of course, on the block. But over and above that, my father, who was a journalist, Associated Press, he got tickets to everything. So I had tickets to everything. So I took all my friends to the roller derby. You probably have never heard of what roller derby is, but the Minnesota, not the Saints, it was called the St. Paul Saints at the time, and the Minneapolis Millers, where Willie Mays played. So this was really, truly exciting. And if I had to do it all over again, that's right where I would love to be born and raised.

That's a great story. So your parents, both big influencers on your life, obviously, in the ways you just mentioned making you a very popular kid. They get to watch you at your home, but how else did they influence you to become the man you've become.

Well, a lot of influence because my mother was a schoolteacher. And I can still remember day after day after day, I think she hit me with a ruler on my hand if I didn't do my extra homework. That was just flashcards, building a vocabulary with the answer on the other side. And then she quizzing me all the time, which was quite interesting. As far as my father goes, he was a huge influence on me. And the reason why was again, he was a resourceful journalist heading the St. Paul Associated Press for the better part of 30 to 35 years. Not only that, but he backed me. The influence that he had on me when I was pitching, I had a little talent for softball, had some talent for golf, and later on tennis. I was the bowling champion at the University of Minnesota. I happened to win the state championship in the city of St. Paul two years in a row. I was runner up for the state golf championship. Three putted the last green. Also remember it to this moment. But my father was there. He was always there for me. He was at the athletic events. He would take me down downtown St. Paul. He would show me around, introduce me to people. His office was at the state capitol. Run me into the governor's office. As the governors changed, I would meet the governor. Can you imagine a kid, okay, just in high school, wow, what a thrill. And then lastly, this is again where he was quite right. And I would call it genius level. Newspaper people like my father live on scoops. If you don't have scoops, it's hard to exist. So what did he figure out? He was extraordinarily creative. He'd go down to Perlman's barbershop, take me with him. There were 12 chairs in a row. And then every week he would get a haircut. Didn't need one though. Once a month. But he knew Mr. Perelman made him a friend. And the other 11 people would have to walk by him day in and day out. These were legislators from the state capitol. These were the tycoons of the business community. He got to know the whole city of St. Paul and that's where he got his scoops.

So the hungry fighter. You've taught all of us so many years about that mindset, that instinct you teach and talk about. You obviously exhibited that from a young age. Your father and mother exposed you to many people as a young man, which empower your social graces. But tell everybody where that hungry fighter mindset came from.

Well, I had some God given talent in athletics. In fact, I turned into A sports junkie. Just one little example. I've been to 13 straight Olympics. I go for 17 days. That's how long it lasts. And I see three to five events every day. That's what you call addiction. And I have that addiction to not only competing in athletics, but watching athletics. So when you're playing an individual sport like golf, you're on your own. I mean, teamwork is very important in many sports, which is just great because there's a basketball player also. But you're competitive. It's you against the other person. Okay, hole by hole. That's what we call match play in those days when we competed. And so by knowing, and this is a little bit rough of a statement, because I really don't mean it, but second is last. And what I'm saying is, is that it's nice to come in first, but I'd love to come in second in everything I do all of my life. So the sports is what turned me into this hungry fighter. And then the resourcefulness again. My father. Just one very quick story to show you how tough a competitor he was. Mayo Hospital Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota World famous Dr. Mayo, one of the founders, he had brothers, was on his last three, five, seven, ten days. Only had ten days to will. Well, the whole world wanted to get the scoop, of course, and. And there were absolute journalists from all over the United States and some from Europe, and they knew it was a vigil. And they knew, looking at six stories in the hospital there, that he was going to pass away at some point in time. And they would make an announcement. So what did my father do? There's a store across the street, and he paid a kid to sit there on the payphone so that when he got the scoop, all right, he could be the first to phone it in all over the world. Number two, how would he know? Ahead of all his competitors. Very simply got to know one of the nurses, you know, bought her some flowers, whatever. And when she raised the shade on the fourth floor and he was on the sixth floor, he had breathed his last breath. So here my father is with all these people. He sees the shade go up. After two, three days of watching, gets so excited, rushes across the street, gets hit by a car. He limps to the store and the kids on the telephone gives it to my dad. My dad phones in the nationwide scoop, if not a world scoop, walks across the street and checks in to the Mayo Clinic.

So that explains the hungry fighter instinct. Help us understand how you bridge the gap to get into salesmanship. And you Find yourself as a young salesman, selling envelopes.

Well, I've always loved the sell because I guess I had a skill that we can talk about at a later time. How I learned how to sell. And deep down in my heart, there's a thrill. I still get the thrill today. If I sell you something, I get a thrill. I really do. I want to help you, and I know it's a good product. I wouldn't be selling it. So therefore, also, I went around with a lot of salespeople when I joined the country club. There were entrepreneurs and salespeople. And I just kind of found out that, you know what? If you really analyze this, everyone is a salesperson. And why do I say that? Of course, a lot of people out there will disagree. But just listen to the next few seconds. From the moment you get up in the morning to the moment you go to bed, what are you doing? You're communicating. You're negotiating, you're persuading, you're influencing. You're selling ideas. Now, if that's not a salesperson, Cliff, I don't know what is.

So Quality park envelope. Your first sales job. Official sales job, because you worked as a kid. You hustled, you worked at the. At the country club in the bag room, was it Right? So you're working at a young, young age, but then you find yourself at Quality Park. What was that like?

Well, I had a lot of jobs, I might add. I was setting pins in a bowling alley. And I might put it in reverse. I was the University of Minnesota bowling champion. I was the Minnesota state ping pong champion. I told you I love sports. So with that ping pong table in my basement, and my father got me to take some lessons from the former senior champs, that. That helped a lot. So back to. Back to Quality Park. I get out of school. I mean, I think I know it all. I'm a first college graduate out of my family. I have my sheepskin right here. And very cocky. Wanted to start at the top and work up. Actually had chapped lips from kissing the mirror too much. I mean, I was. Hey, Cliff, I was really. I really thought I was good. And I got over there. And of course, they. They handed me my head in the beginning. But I was 15 to 20 years younger than the youngest salesperson at Quality Park. Envelope. They had a sales staff of approximately 25 people, so I was always under undue pressure. One brief little story. My father, again, knowing everybody in town and the state of Minnesota, they had a CEO that was sent to prison for income Tax evasion. His name was Charlie Ward. Name of the company was Brown and Bigelow. Largest manufacturer of calendars. Remember the Marilyn Monroe calendar? Sure, one of them. But largest manufacturer playing cards and calendars. But they had to put calendars in envelopes. So across the street they had this envelope plant called Quality Park Envelope Company. Well, my father interviewed Charlie Ward in prison and he said one day, hey, how many kids do you have? Said boy and a girl. And of course a girl was not known for the business world back then. He says, well, have your son come over when he gets out of school. I'll give him a job. My dad put this in his brain. Bank graduate, University of Minnesota. Go over to his office. I mean, you could have put 50 to 75 people in there for a cocktail party. I'm just triple nervous. But I'll never forget what he said. Quote, I'm going to put you across the street in our gold mine named Quality Park Envelope Company. Never forgot that. And so life got started. I went right to the shipping department. I got my hand caught in one of those wraps, as you know, when they wrapped the package up. But six months there and then to the sales force.

So let's take a step back because clearly you learned salesmanship hungry fighter early on through your role models, your parents. But talk about college and the benefits you perceive of a college education. Because today we see a lot of young entrepreneurs who don't find college suitable. And I've heard you talk about that. So share your perspective on the true benefits of college education today.

No question, unequivocally, college should almost be for everyone. Even if they're not a good student, even if they don't have the money, they can be resourceful. Of course, the student loans are beyond comprehension today. Now, why do I say that? Because it makes you responsible. It teaches you judgment, it teaches you discipline. If you don't get along with people, you've earned the kiss of death. So you have to get along with people. You have to be organized. I read just recently, last month, and I don't have the exact figures, but every college graduate versus a non college graduate will make approximately $500,000, half a million dollars extra. Now, we're not only talking about money, I'm not talking about money here, talking about happiness. I'm talking about choices with that maturity that comes to going to college. Yes, the books are important, but just as important are those skill sets that I just mentioned that you will develop he or she with a college education.

Let's translate that to Sports. Because if you're telling us that the true value of college education is learning those disciplines and making good decisions and building relationships, you took it to a whole new level as an athlete on top of what you did as a student. So tennis and golf were your sports. Why did you find those to be the most effective?

Well, golf kind of changed. Tennis came later, but golf kind of changed my life. And again, if you go out and ask a thousand business people, men and women, how did you make it? Why were you successful? You're talking 90% would say M e n t o r mentor. They had a mentor. So I lived with my father for five extra years. I graduated college, and then my mother saw me graduate and then immediately passed away at age 49. So I live with my father, this resourceful, animal human being who was the hungry fighter, who taught me again to be the hungry fighter. He made the decision that, hey, you're a quality golfer, one of the best in the state for your age. He said, I think you should go over to this place called Oak Ridge Country Club in Minneapolis. They have a team in the city league. They compete against 10 other teams. They're at the bottom. I think you should go tell them, look, you'll play for the team. You don't have any money at this point in time. You're 21 years of age. But if you can just give me a five year scholarship and I'll be a member, of course, forever, but also try to get some money back to you after I start earning some money and save some money. So I had a five year scholarship free. Now, what did golf do for me? What did those golf clubs do for me? There were 300 members. So I got a chance to meet all these entrepreneurs. And I was selling envelopes for Quality Park Envelope Company. Again, just, you know, just out of school. And can you imagine the contacts that I made when I'm playing with a scratch 12 handicap and I'm playing on the team? And of course, the youngest member by 30 or 40 years. I mean, this was really a thrill. And how do you build a network better than that to go into that country club, meet all those people, then start calling on them? I mean, big companies like Coast to coast, which is a nationwide hardware chain, the Vikings were in town, the Twins were in town, had members out there. It was fabulous. And I had a great time at the same time. So that's what golf had done for me. I got injured at the age of 26 or 7, took up tennis. I had a good right Arm. Okay, I ruined this wrist, my left wrist. And if you're a right hander, as you know, because you play, I didn't tell anybody how good you play. No, but you're a good sticker. You really are fine player. You probably play better than three quarters of the people in the United States. That's 20 million golfers. So I salute and applaud that. But I couldn't play. Therefore I took up tennis, went down to Puerto Rico, fellow by the name of Nick Balateri, one of the great teachers in the world. And I got started and for 30 years I played the regional, local and some national tournaments. And I might add, very proud. I had a number one ranking for many years. This is the old man's league now. The 35s, the 40s, the 45s, the 50s. But guess what? I got to travel around the United States, the golf tournaments. I got to go to the NCAA Championships in Purdue, to the National Junior Championships in la, at LA Country Club. So this, you know, one who travels knows much as my father taught me. This is really growing up with your golf clubs, using it to a terrific advantage. And then guess what, had 300 customers. Ultimately. Do you know how many people play golf in Minnesota? Believe it or not. So what if it's a 30 day season? I'm kidding. But we play four to five months. So then I'd use those golf clubs, of course, with all those golfers and so that then increase my probability that I'd get the order, get the business.

So we're listening to you and we hear this mindset where you're the best of the best at anything you take on and you find yourself as a young salesman, tell everybody how you came to buy your own envelope company. What really drove that you couldn't be happy as a salesman. You needed to go buy your own. So help us understand how that happened.

Well, well, I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Still have trouble spelling the word, but that's exactly what I wanted to be. Going back to my father, mentor, he said, if you can ever go out on your own, strike out on your own, find something you love, okay? And you'll never have to work a day in your life. But I want to also regress a minute and make this a very important point we hear from everyone, follow your passion. Nothing could be further from the truth. You have to be good at your passion, then you can follow your passion. I mean, if I want to be a brain surgeon, I can't even look at blood. No chance. I Don't have a chance. So I say that to all our viewers out there. So important that not to be just passionate, you have to be good, your passion. So that's what I wanted to do, be that entrepreneur. Why Again, repeat, number one, my father. Number two, the people at the country club, 75% of them were entrepreneurs and they're advising me. Also, if you can find something on your own, couple partners, whatever, give it a try. Sometimes it's risky not to take a risk. And so that's how I grew up. I grew up a risk taker. It did work out. However, the truth always hurts. I hope my face doesn't get too red here, but when I quit, I went to work. Quality park envelope for five years. Then this nonprofit, okay, basically bankrupt envelope company came on the market. I walked in to my two bosses, the president and the senior vice president, sales, after I purchased them, and I looked them straight in the eye after being there five years. And you know what I said? I said, if it doesn't work out, can I have my job back?

What'd they say?

Model statement. What a statement. I mean, I had confidence, but boy, this is every stride on the ice of the ice would crack.

So you take that massive leap of faith, basically, fearless young man. You find yourself owning this envelope company. You're obviously a gifted salesman, you have a lot of contacts, you leverage those relationships, you get the big accounts. So help everybody understand the storytelling component because I want to bridge into what you've been able to achieve beyond the hundred million dollar envelope company because the other things you've done are epic also. So let's help everybody understand how you learn to be such a great storyteller.

Three reasons. Number one, Toastmasters International. Number two, Toastmasters International. Number three, Toastmasters. And once again, you can see I'm always returning to my father. I'm always returning to the advice that he gave me. And I learned to be a good listener. But my father suggested downtown St. Paul, number one Toastmasters club in the world, King Boreas Toastmasters. Alright? And so I started at age 21, down there, one week every week, week after week, year after year, I had to get up and I had to tell, okay, talk on my feet then. What do they teach you? You learn very fast, okay, that if you're a storyteller, that if you've got some humor, you can't just tell a joke. You have to have a segue in to that content. So I worked very, very hard. I won some nice contests. And so all of a sudden, well, Let me just say this. Let me go Back to history 101. When I was a freshman, my advisor was the chief interpreter at the Nuremberg trials, World War II. Yeah, he didn't just teach history, he understood and lived history. And so here he is, okay, teaching history 101, World War II. And now here's another. You know, we have 35,000 students, university, Minnesota campus. He's got one course fellow, another teacher has another course side by side, room next to each room. My counselor. You can't get in the course. There's standing room only. Next teacher, same, same subject, same course, Same same books. 10% of the people, 15%. Why? Very simple. Humor over here with content, and content only over here with no humor. So the combination of the both makes you a storyteller. So my antenna is always up, looking for stories and looking for transitions and looking for lessons, concepts, ideas, philosophies, you know, that'll help you tell that story to make that substantive in depth point.

So a lot of us have been to Toastmasters and learned to speak, but very few of us have had the success you've had. National Speakers association, hall of Fame speaker, traveled all over the world, weekly Fortune 1000 companies, millions of dollars in fees, best of the best. So how did that happen? Because you're growing. You're growing a company and then you become a world famous speaker.

Well, once again, I have to repeat that I was lucky and fortunate, all right? But I also worked hard at Toastmasters, had the passion, received some success, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're having all kinds of groups. The Chamber of Commerce, Commerce, Kiwanis Club, all these different. The country club even asked me over. The school asked me. I had a meteoric rise in business, so companies asked me to come over and speak to their companies. So I did all this talking and wow. I mean, it's nice. I always wanted constant, immediate, unfiltered feedback from my customers. So when I go over and talk to my customers, Even, you know, 30, 40, 50 of them used to be called purchasing agents, not purchasing managers. So Pillsbury, General Mills, 3M, Honeywell, IDS, the bigger Carlson companies, you know, part of those companies, some of them would invite me over to talk to their sales forces. He thought I was a pretty good salesforce. So all of a sudden they had MO on my side. And his last name was Bentham, all right? And so one thing led to the other, and all of a sudden I knew I was speaking once a week to a Fortune 1000 company all over the world. And of course, that was after my books hit.

So explain to everybody how the first book happened, because that's a whole nother level of achievement. We want to talk about the marketplace.

Cliff just pushed me, if you excuse the pun, right over the cliff. And what do I mean by that? Here I was making these speeches, okay, at all these different organizations. Then people would come up to me and they'd say, may I have a copy of your notes? I don't have any notes. Speak without notes. Just a raw outline. Oh, then do you have. In those days, they called it not a CD even, but an audio tape. And the answer was no. Do you have a book? The answer was no. So quietly, over a period of time, it was going to my brain bank that maybe, you know, maybe I read a book, but it wasn't front burner at all. So the marketplace again then pushed me right over. And then what happened? Well, the next thing that happened. YPO, Young Presidents Organization. I joined at the age of 27. It's a worldwide organization about approximately 75 countries. These are all executives, CEOs, presidents, entrepreneurs who are running these companies from soup to nuts. And now, all of a sudden, I got a reputation, and they started inviting me around the world to speak. So one day, and this is. This changed my life. This one day, I'm in a foreign country. I think it was Asia. Can't remember. But I was the speaker. And about 200 people per class is about the average size in those days. I had a gentleman in the first row, and he was taking copious notes, and I gave my lecture. And all of a sudden, class ends. He comes up to me, introduces himself. Hi, my name is Ken Blanchard. One minute manager. Whoa, Butterflies. Nervous inside. And he looks right at me and he says, wow, that was just fabulous content. I love your humor. You know what? I'd like to write a book with you. How would you like me to write a book right here? I mean, I'm running 60, 70, 80 miles an hour, but my mind has been trained, thanks to my father. Cliff, you come up to me and say, Harvey, here's $10,000. You're a nice guy. I won't take it. I want to think about it, and I'll get back to you tomorrow. As excited as I was, I said to Ken, this is fabulous. Let me just do a little research. I'll get back to you tomorrow afternoon. I bought some time. Go back, tell my wife. One minute manager. One minute manager. He wants to write a book with me. Can you believe that? World Famous, he's got millions of books out. And so then I started doing my homework and I called my lawyer and I called a publisher and I called an advertising company called an agent, two agents as I recall. And guess what? Here's my research. Don't write the book with Ken Blanchard. Why? Because it will always be his book. Nobody's ever heard of you. Hayseed from Minnesota. Fly over state of Minnesota. No, always be his book. If you're going to write a book, Harvey, then you write it yourself. Next day, had a meeting with Blanchard, looked him right in the eye and I said, ken, I've done some research and done my homework and I don't think that I'm going to necessarily write a book, but if I ever do, I said I'm going to write it myself because my advisors and counselors have told me and I just spit it right out. It'll always be your book because you're so famous. Bang. Puts his hand right out and he says, wonderful. When you write a book, I want to write, I want to write the foreword for it and pats me on the back. Now there is a beautiful human being and what did I do ultimately? Wrote swim with the sharks. What did he do? Wrote, he wrote the introduction for me and I wrote the introduction for him. For raving fans. And we've been joined at the hip ever since. That day overseas changed my life.

That is a phenomenal story. We're going to talk in later segments and much more all through the academy about your writing career. And as you know, we have a number of other academy leaders who will be sharing online courses, real world training. We with our audience, growing audience worldwide. So in wrapping this segment up, what I want to really talk about is how you found time to be a world class business guy, a speaker and then a writer. And you go on for so many years still today, 100 newspapers, every week you nail a column. How do you do that? How do you continue to do that?

My father, same thing. Have to keep going back to him. We're leaving in 12 minutes. I'll pick you up at 1:17. If I'm fishing with him and it's 205, we're leaving. All right, I come at 2:07. Bye bye. Harvey, he's gone. Time management. I am a freak time management. I have 10, 15, 20, 25 little tricks that help me with time management. So when people ask me when I was 50 years old, how old are you? I say about 55. Because my time management, I think I've saved years and years, every second, minute, hour, day, week. All right, I'm thinking about this. We all start out with one thing in common, Cliff. We all have the same amount of time now. It's just a matter of what we do with it. So I'm extraordinarily very time conscious, very, very organized. But guess what? On one to ten, I'm probably a seven and a half. There's room for improvement. Biggest room in the world is the room for improvement. I can get better, way better at time management. And I keep practicing it all the time. I have a saying, practice makes perfect. That's not true. You have to add one word. Perfect practice makes perfect practice something time and time again. If you don't know what you're doing, all you're really doing is perfecting an error. You put a ceiling on how good you can become. So that's what I've done over a lifetime.

And.

And that truly does help. You can accomplish a lot more again if you've got more hours in the day.

Well, I want to honor your time today because we know how valuable your time is. So in wrapping up this segment, thank you so much for your time today and sharing everything about how you got started. The hungry fighter mindset, the power of mentorship, how you began networking, leverage sports into salesmanship and building a company. You sold over 10 million books, which I neglected to mention, books still sell off the shelves like hotcakes. You continue to speak quite selectively. Right. Because we're basically building the academy now and focusing on changing lives worldwide, online in addition to the real world events. So if you've been with us this far, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for sticking with us. There will be more to come on this interview in the next segment with Harvey McKay. Harvey, thanks again for being with us today.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Thank you for listening to Street Smarts with Harvey Mackay. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you consume your favorite audio. Don't forget to leave a positive rating and review before you sign up for your free membership@harveymckademy.com to learn more about Harvey McKay, make sure to visit www.harveymckayacademy.com. thanks for listening and we'll be back soon with a new episode.

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