E15: Mastering Book Sales with Joe Sweeney

Thanks for joining us today on Street Smarts with Harvey Mackay, where the biggest room in the world is the room for improvement. And now here's your host, managing partner and co founder of harveymckayacademy.com Cliff Jones.

Hello everybody, Clif Jones, co founder, managing partner of Harvey McKay Academy. And I'm thrilled to have with us today for the Harvey McKay Street Smarts podcast podcast, our guest, Joe Sweeney, New York Times best selling author of Networking Is a Contact Sport, the second best networking book you'll ever read. Joe, you're also a very successful businessman. You've owned and operated four manufacturing companies, you headed up the Wisconsin Sports Commission, and you ran a sports management company representing dozens of professional athletes. And you currently work with the Navy seals. And what we're here to talk about today, folks, is how you and the legendary leader, Author, Speaker, Harvey McKay, seven New York Times best selling books, two of which the New York Times listed as among the most inspirational books ever written. Up there with Dale Carnegie and the other legendary authors. So what I want you guys particularly to focus on today is how you connected and help our audience, our listeners, understand the dynamics of not only writing a New York Times best selling book, but then actually being able to sell millions of copies as Harvey McKay has done in more than 80 languages worldwide. So Joe, let's talk about how you connected with Harvey and get into that story so you guys can help everybody understand what this really takes.

Okay, thanks, Cliff. First of all, I just want to say how humbled, grateful and honored I am him to be here with the legend Harvey McKay. And I think it's because today's the topic is how do you write and execute on a New York Times bestseller? I've been blessed and privileged to have the opportunity to work with Harvey as he became a role model and mentor in my life. And I guess for the people out there. The only thing I can compare this to really is if you loved golf, working with Harvey is like playing nine holes with Jack Nicklaus. Or if you loved basketball, basketball, it'd be like shooting free throws with Michael Jordan or LeBron James. So I just want to start by that. Just the magnitude of gratitude I have for this opportunity to work with Harvey and become great friends is I can't really talk about it in a 30 minute podcast. If your listeners have seven hours and seven beers, I'll go through in detail with them. But quite honestly, when I contemplated writing a book, I didn't know where to start. I wasn't a writer. So I had a conversation with a Friend of mine who was at the University of Minnesota, Joel Mochi, the athletic director. And he said, if you're thinking of writing a book, there's a superstar out here or up here by the name of Harvey McKay. And I reached out, Harvey and I connected. And it was instant. From the minute we met, there was an energy, a connection and the enthusiasm of Harvey. One of those things that's contagious. It wears off or it wears off, it hits you like a ton of bricks. And you're really never the same after you meet with him. So when I talked about this with Harvey, he said, I've done this numerous times. I can help you in this process. So just quickly, there are five quick things that Harvey said. If you're going to be on a New York Times, be on the New York Times bestseller list, number one, you need to find a mentor. Find someone who believes in you more than you do yourself. And I was blessed because I met Harvey. And I also was fortunate to meet Jack Canfield, who was the author of the Chicken Soup of the Soul series, which he has sold over 500 million copies of that one of the best selling all time books ever, that series. And then Jack and Harvey said, writing a book is important, but more important than writing the book is marketing the book. I didn't really believe that you got to have good content, but marketing it is key. And then you've got to plan out a strategy. And Harvey helped me think through and work through a strategy. And most importantly, he said, be ready to work your butt off. I'll say that again. Be ready to work your butt off. And when I was writing this book, I had, I think I looked at my calendar. There are 79 straight days I worked to launch this. And the last lesson Harvey said was, always give more value than what you take. And I really process those. Worked hard on it. And I couldn't have done this without the guidance, the help and the support of Harvey McKay. So again, I am eternally grateful for opportunity to not only meet this person, work with him, but learn to love him.

Thanks, Joe, for that. Let's swing it back to Harvey. Because Harvey, I want you to help everybody understand you get requests all the time. So what was it about Joe Sweeney in particular that attracted you and compelled you to want to help him become a New York Times best selling author?

Well, that's an easy question. And Joel, thanks for the very kind remarks. I sincerely appreciate it. No, what attracted me to him? Three things, very simply. Number one, he was a hungry fighter. Number two, he was a hungry fighter. And number three, he was a hungry fighter. Give me those three qualities and I can take anyone he or she on the planet and make them successful. And of course, Joe also, though believed in himself, he believed in his material. I had written a book, Dig youg well before youe're Thirsty, wound up in 200 universities. Number one on the new York Times bestseller list. And when I picked up Joe's book, that's why earlier in the session, Cliff mentioned Joe had written the second best networking book ever written.

Debatable. Debatable.

But when I put that in all sincerity, I put that right up next to mine. I think both books are just sensational. Networking as a contact sport. Again, to repeat what Joe had written. So I knew the subject well. My father taught it to me. Networking from age 18 on. Just put in reverse for a second on networking. He said to me. Age 18, Harvey, every person you meet the rest of your life goes into a Rolodex file, obviously computer today, and then a little bit of bottom on the back of the card. And here is the key. He said, find a creative way to keep in touch. Of course, that's what I've been doing ever since I was 18 years of age. So give me something that give me someone who believes in himself or herself and is a hungry fighter and willing again to take advice from a mentor. That's a package you cannot lose.

Joe, I'm curious, because you've touched on it before. You talk about it when you're speaking and traveling around the world. Share with everybody, in retrospect, your biggest challenges and two or three things that you would suggest to these hungry fighters that don't yet have a book and are facing some of the challenges that you've already been through and broken through.

I think part of this. That's a great question, Cliff. I think a lot of this, and this is where Harvey really helped. I think some of the biggest challenge I had, number one, I'm not sure I had the confidence to do this, to be a New York Times bestseller. You had to be really smart. You had to be able to. You had to know how to write. Harvey taught me that because he keeps saying that you're not that smart. You're from a bad gene pool, Sweeney, but I can help you. But he really believed in me, even when I didn't think I could do it. And I think you could say a lot of things about Harvey McKay and what he's done. But to me, the number one thing in this New York Times best Selling Project is an example. He really taught you how to. He could talk about inspire, motivate, believe in you. He really teaches people the art of manifestation. And without getting way too far into it, it's really about how do you get things done in life? How do you accomplish what it is you want to accomplish? And one of the things, as I went through this, Harvey asked me, joe, what do you want to. What do you want? Why do you want to get it on the New York Times bestsellers list? And if you were to do that, what would you feel like? What would you think like, how would you walk? How would you talk? And it was really about assuming the feeling of your wish fulfilled. And he said, walk around and act as if you're already a New York Times bestseller. And not in a pompous, arrogant way, but in a way to put you in a mindset, to assume that feeling of the wish fulfilled. And I think the magic and the secret behind this is this magnetic pull from what it is you want to where you are today. And that comes together. And Harvey was really the root and the foundation for that magnetic pull. So the biggest challenge, Cliff, I think, was really believing that I could do this. And Harvey just didn't believe in me. He really showed me the how to do it. And I think, you know, just working with him and being able to pull that off has really completely changed my life for the second half. And I can't wait to get up every morning for the next 14,386 days.

Thanks for that, Joe. Let's go back to Harvey. Harvey. Talk about some of the biggest mistakes you see some of these hungry fighter authors make in the process of creating the book and how you coach and guide them through it.

Well, let me first say that practice makes perfect. Nothing could be further from the truth. You have to add one word. Perfect. Practice makes perfect. So we have all these, I won't call them wannabes, but let me just put it in reverse for a moment and give you the stats so we know what we're talking about. Approximately last year, 340,000 books were published. 20,000 of them were business books. And now get this, this is not a typo, folks. There were 1 million self published books last year. Which means everyone I'm addressing today, all you listeners out there, every one of you has a book in you. So the most important thing of all is, as Joe said, number one, get a mentor. Have someone as an advisor, a counselor, so that you can practice the right concepts over a long period of time of Being a New York Times bestseller or just a bestseller, any bestseller, a local bestseller, an Amazon bestseller, a Wall Street Journal bestseller, USA Today. It goes on and on. There are many, many lists that can make you a bestseller. Practice the right concepts, that is really important. And then there are certain thought processes that you have to ask yourself that most people, they don't ask themselves these questions. Most important question, when someone comes to me and I've been doing this for 30 years, helping authors, and that is as follows. Why do you want to write the book? And they just hit me as a deer, you know, caught in the headlights. Why do you want to write a book? And of course, there are many motivations. Some people want it to enhance their brand. Other people want it for financial reasons. Other people want it for a member in the family or dedicated to their grandchildren. Myriad of reasons why. But that you have to ask yourself is the first question. Then you have to know some concepts, which of course, Cliff puts it in reverse. What are the mistakes they make? Here's the positive things that they should be thinking about. And that is not necessarily prioritized, but still very important. Give me one paragraph, I only have one paragraph to describe the publishing industry. And here it is. And you should take notes. Most of you out there, listeners right this minute should be taking notes. Pale ink is better than the most retentive memory, which means write it down, of course. So very, very important. Here's the industry. Many great books have never seen the light of day because of poor promotion. But all the money in the world can't sell a bad book. So you have to know immediately that this must be marketed. This book, nothing sells itself. So very, very important. There are many, many moves, many strategies that you have to have in order to make that book become very, very successful. And I'll just, very succinctly just knock out one or two or three of them. And again, I hope you're taking notes, but have a kitchen cabinet. You should have a kitchen cabinet all your life. Even if you don't want to write a book, and that's so very, very important, you can bounce ideas off, have them read this chapter, have them read this number two. And this will shock everyone Listening is as follows. Here's what the book industry demands. Two chapters and an outline. And that's it. Let me repeat that. You don't write the whole book. You just write two chapters and an outline. And that's how the publishers, the publishing companies make their decision. There are a couple of million people that want to write a book. Every single year. How are 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 publishers going to read a couple million manuscripts? They can't. So that's the beautiful news. You sit down, you write the two best chapters of your life. Okay? Whatever you want. Obviously, storytelling is the best. With a little bit of humor, you put an outline together. And then, of course, you have to search for an agent. If you can find an agent, terrific. That's what I call starting at the top and working up. You start for the best, you push for the best, you hope for the best, and you go for number one, of course, which is get a major publisher. And how do you find that agent? Well, I have an expression that I've used for the rest of my life as well as before, past the past years, that's as follows. All right. Bass are where you find them. I live in Minnesota. Bass are where you find them. What does that mean? Agents are where you find them. Mortgage money is where you find them. Good salespeople, where you find them.

They're out there.

So you have to be very resourceful. Then here's what I did. As soon as I decided I wanted to write a book, I went and interviewed other authors. If you had to do it all over again, what mistakes did you make? Getting back to you, Joe and Cliff, what mistakes did you make? You want to go out and talk to lawyers, you want to talk to some publishers, you want to go out and talk to some marketing companies, okay, that know how to market books. And you interview all these people, and then you continue to learn. That's an outstanding tip, too. And then just a real quickie after you write that book, this is just. This is pride all the way. You know, it's your baby. You've been working on that for 12 years to put that book out. And here's what's important. Have a party. Barnes and Noble. You know, in your. In your city. There's one in every city. All you do is go to them, tell them you want to have a book signing, tell them that you're going to invite a hundred of your friends, whatever, maybe a little wine, a little music, have a great time. That's a good way to kick it off as far as getting your book published. So, again, plethora of ideas. I could go on and on and on for hours as to what you have to do. But don't ever forget, practice makes perfect. Not true. Perfect. Practice makes perfect.

All right, guys, I want you both to take a shot at answering this, because it comes up all the time today for new Authors, self publish or traditional publishing. We all know that the industry has changed quite a bit. So Joe, you take the lead on this. If you were to write another book with the intention of making it a New York Times bestseller, an Amazon bestseller, what would you advise people to do based on what you would do?

I think the key thing is if you can find a publisher, get a publisher. They will help you with distribution. They'll get them in all the bookstores. But I think a key thing to keep in mind, and Harvey knows this better than anyone, is unlike decades ago, publishers could help drive book sales. Unless you're Hillary Clinton or George Bush and they give you a big advance, publishing companies won't really market and push and promote your book. You are primarily responsible for that. And I think a lot of people who go in to publish a book with a publisher think they will pave the way for them. That's not the industry anymore. At least that's my experience. So you've got to be your own promoter, you've got to be your own marketing firm. You've got to get the word out there. Because publishing firms, unlike decades ago, won't do that for you. So if you can find a publisher, I would say do that. But keep in mind you're the marketing arm and the promotional arm for your content, your book, and whatever it is you want to do, whether it's speaking or reinventing yourself, whatever it is, you are ultimately responsible for that.

You are spot on. I agree with you wholeheartedly. And just to piggyback on that for a moment or two, yes, you start Shoot for the Stars, maybe you can get a national publisher. However, there's regional publishers too that are just fabulous. But then the beautiful fallback is, as I mentioned, at the top of the program is 1 million books. Last year only 340,000 published. A million self published. And remember, a lot of books have been self published, become popular, and then a publisher will pick it up. Wow, look what Joe Doakes did. Look what Mary Jones did. And so that's another strategy that should be used. You start, look at the top, try to achieve it. And then the fallback positions, which are beautiful fallback positions again, are to be published. Now, Harvey McKee Academy, which of course is bringing this to you right now, we have our own little subsidiary of self publishing books and helping people. So any of you out there, if you just have any spark whatsoever, just any interest, any enthusiasm, any motivation to write a book, and I always say everyone has one restaurant and everybody wants to own a restaurant, and everybody wants to write a book, but you can do it unequivocally. It is easy when you get help. So we've got our people here that help you find your agents, we get you published, we market the book, we help you write the book. We've got a beautiful, beautiful team of experts that can do that. And you'll know immediately. So you can just follow the Harvey McKay Academy, and you'll find a lot of authors and book information and book publishing on that site.

Harvey has always said, when you work with me, you'll get a 10 times return on your investment. I'm going to challenge that because what I have noticed is that it's not a 10 timesr. And I've studied the economics of people who've been touched by this Academy and Harvey McKay. I would say it's a hundred times. And so just as you think about this and going into a program with McKay, the McKay Academy, if you had $1,000 and someone said if you work at something, I can give you 100 times return on investment, would you take that deal? I would, and I have. So this is just kind of a sidebar for the McKay Academy, because to me it's a hundred times return. It's not a 10 timesr. So, Harvey, I'm going to challenge your 10 times. I think you're more of a hundred times.

Well, I never. Excuse me, Cliff, I never spent a penny, quite frankly. I've always made an investment. And that's no question about the investment. Always come through. One more thing. To our listeners that are contemplating writing a book, Biggest room in the world is the room for improvement. Each and every one of you can take your game and to the next level.

All right, Joe, back to you. Because I want you to give our listeners or viewers a dose of reality, talking about the hard work it takes. You mentioned earlier, the publishers aren't there to market the book and sell the book. The onus is on you as the author. So walk our audience through the truth about the work involved.

Well, one of the things that Harvey taught me early on was this, Joe. You could go out individually and talk to people to get them to buy some books. But Harvey introduced the term the 800 pound gorilla. There are 800 pound gorillas out there. Harvey McKay is one in that he has a following that if you connect with someone like Harvey McKay or Jack Canfield, who's got millions of followers and, and it's just not you communicating with them, you can network and build trust so they know you like you and Trust you. And if you can get to that level and create a team of 800 pound gorillas that can help you launch your book. And you've got to communicate this and coordinate it so it's all launched at the same time, but simultaneously. What Harvey taught me was he said, get out there. It's sort of like the theme, dig your well before you're thirsty. And he said, once you have the book done, create as many speaking opportunities as you can. And so I had literally dozens and dozens of free talks that I gave to companies and they would buy 2, 3, 4, 500 books. But I did that for literally 90 days before the book was launched. And then once the book came out, it's like the floodgates opened up. But that didn't happen on the release date. That happened the 90 to 100 days before that, where we worked every day, got in front of as many people as possible to communicate the message and the enthusiasm of this book. And Harvey asked earlier, why do you write a book? And again, there's hundreds of reasons, but one of the key things I think is can you get your message out of whatever it is that's burning inside? And if you can do that, the energy comes through. And I think even if you're not a great speaker, sometimes you got to have good content, good stories. But if you can bring energy and enthusiasm, that can really help inspire an audience just by how your book has impacted you and you share that with the world.

Let me, if I may just insert another idea or two that want to make sure I cover before we end this program. And that is as follows. Titles. Titles mean everything. Endorsements mean everything. Little things mean a lot. Not true. Little things mean everything. Example, if you were to read my seven books. If you were to read my 1500 columns, I'm still writing a national syndicated column for 10 million newspapers, about 100 different cities weekly doing it the last 25 years. And then all the speeches I've made, one a week on six continents the last 30 years. Take all that material bundled up and you'll see the small print under the small print will be whispering to you, prepare to win. Prepare to win. That's the gist and one of the most remarkable things that I've come up with in my lifetime. Those three simple words. But guess what? Go into a bookstore. Would you rather buy prepare to win or swim with the sharks without being eaten alive? Would you rather buy prepare to win, or beware the naked man who offers you his shirt. Or again, dig your well before you're thirsty or shark proof or how to get a job. Getting a job is a job. Use your head to get your foot in the door. Another book on and on McKay business and way of getting your MBA in the real world. So titles are important and subtitles are important. Don't ever forget them. A couple of subtitles of mine. Do what you love, love what you do and deliver more than you promise. Swim with the sharks and I'll be eaten live. Main title subtitle on the COVID Outsell out, manage out, motivate and out. Negotiate your competition a little bit better than just three words. Prepare to win and then endorsements. And any listener out there can go get some endorsements with a little bit of creativity and hard work. And I'm very proud that 30 years ago I started and maybe made a little switch in the entire country, if not the world, on endorsements. Everybody used to have every business book at 3, 4, 5, 6 business people, you know, that are in business. Nothing could be further from the truth as far as getting results. They don't necessarily pay off on effort, they pay off on results. And we're here, Joe and I, to help you get the, the results. And so those endorsements just give you my philosophy. I didn't just go get four, five, six business people, put them on the back page, maybe a few of them in the beginning of the book. No, I got Democrats, I got Republicans, I got people and groups that didn't like each other, but they all agreed on one thing, they liked Harvey's book. So you want people from different constituencies, not just all business people. If you're writing a business book again, I repeat, and I say this to myself every day, little things mean a lot. Not true. Little things mean everything.

Harvey, perfect segue to talk about creativity and what you recommend to help budding authors, writers, speakers really get into the highest creative mode. And then, Joe, I would like you to comment on that, please.

Most people out there do not understand there is no, none, nada correlation between IQ and creativity. Every listener watcher out there can become more creative than they ever dreamed about. And that of course, is very important. And you can teach yourself that. Just a little example again on titles. I went to an advertising agency and the CEO happened to be. She was a woman, very creative, never read a business book in her life. She went out, got nine other people, 10 people in a room for four hours one evening. None of them have ever read a business book before. And she then got on, turned on the television, showed a little bit about business she had them read magazines and clips and books and chapters during those four hours, and then they come up with ideas for four straight hours on what the title of a good book would be. We wound up with 150 titles at the end of four hours of which Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive got more gold stars than the other red and blue stars that she gave them. They all started out then with 15 red, gold and blue stars to put up there on the board. So creativity is important. You have to read creative books. You have to go around and hang out with creative people. You have to push yourself again, just myriad of reasons that you can do and strategies that you can think of by being creative.

Okay, Joe, back to you. Let's talk a little bit about your viewpoints on creativity.

Well, here's the thing. I think, I think logic can take you from A to B and creativity can take you anywhere. And I think if there's any blessing and gift I received from Harvey McKay is this. He really can teach you how to think outside the box. And so one of the things that I've learned from Harvey is as I've gotten older, it's not so important to have all the answers as much as it is an ability to ask really good questions. And one of the things that Harvey challenged me as I was writing and marketing this book, he would always start with questions. Hey, Joe, what if? And he would ask a question, or Joe, have you ever thought about? And he'd ask the question. So I think part of stirring the creative juices is more about asking good questions. And most of us ask a lot of questions ourselves. We get into this negative self talk. But to have a positive mentor like Harvey to share his insights and to ask good questions, I think can help really spur that creativity.

All right, we're getting close to the end of our time today, gentlemen. So in leaving our listeners, our viewers, with one biggie thought to focus on. Joe, you can go first. Is there one particular thing that you would suggest to authors that have a book in the works or a book on the market and they're having a challenge selling the book?

Okay, well, there's two things. There's one, there's a challenge about writing and a challenge about launching. I think the writing and Harvey talked about some of this is number one, ask yourself, why do you want to write the book? And I think once you have that big enough why, the how becomes much easier. But most people don't really understand the why. And Harvey taught about you create a big enough why. You can really do anything. We just don't understand that why. And then without sounding redundant in the whole process of marketing and promoting it, create your 800 pound gorillas, you know, have this strategy and be able to have a mindset of flexibility because as you do this, there are certain markets that your content will resonate with. And I think too many times we get so rigid, Cliff, in our marketing approach, we said, oh, that's not going to work. Again, Another lesson from McKay. Sometimes you got to keep throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Because the biggest challenge that authors have, I think, and I'll use this term, and Harvey has done this many times in his life, is how do you reinvent yourself? And every single book that Harvey wrote and marketed was really in a reinvention of Harvey McCabe. He's done that professionally with many of the things that he's done in his work world, and he's also done that in his book world. So, number one, I think have a plan. Execute work like hell, but also be able to accept it's not failure. And I don't want to call them mistakes. Sometimes they're just mistakes. And be comfortable with that and eventually you'll find, find that niche. I've tried a lot of different things. A lot of them didn't work. Although I don't talk about them because most people just want to hear what works. So these are the lessons I've learned from Harvey. And again, Cliff, I'm grateful beyond description to even be on this podcast today.

Harvey, any parting thoughts for our audience?

Well, reminder, Joe, you talk about the 800 pound gorilla. I also said to you on many occasions, the elephant, okay, sits where he wants to. You may remember that. Let me leave our audience with one major philosophy that we really haven't zeroed in on. And that's the word persistence. Again, I could spend the whole half hour talking about persistence. But let me be very brief with the story first. The correlation is, of course, exactly the same. I'm 21 years old. I get out of college. I go to work for an envelope company. They throw the yellow pages at me. Good luck, kid. And I'm having all kinds of problems. I'm there for one month. I wait for the senior salesperson to walk in. Mr. Carpenter. He's in his 80s. I looked at him as a kid, just 26 years old. I said, I'm having problems, okay, with questions and selling. How long do you call in a prospect? I'll never forget his answer as if it were yesterday. He said, it depends on which one of us dies first. And that of course is persistence at its zenith. Therefore you must be persistent. Just one book story. Wayne Dyer, he wrote pulling your own strings in your erroneous zones. For those of you who may not have heard of him, one of the greatest authors of all times. He went to 20, 25, 30, 35 publishers, couldn't get published, so he published the book himself. He threw a couple hundred books in his station wagon in those days as it was called. He started traveling across the country and I mean we're talking about Mickey Mouse stops, no major cities, just a few of them. So one day though, he's in San Francisco 3:00am in the morning. That's when they would have him on. He was talking about his book and then he was saying to all the people listening, you know, which were 3, 4, 5, 6 people, probably 3am in the morning on a week station, that he would be at such and such bookstore or these books would be at this store tomorrow morning. Believe it or not, ironically or not, one of those six persons happened to be Johnny Carson. And Johnny Carson was blown away. Had him at his studio, interviewed him, and the rest is history. Wayne Dyer is a household name. So Harry's going from city to city, town to town, state to state, no luck, nothing. And he just consistently kept being persistent. And Chicken Soup for the Soul, they went 33 of the two co authors, they went 33 days. Mark Victor Hanson was John Canfield's partner. 33 publishers and they had 33 no's and they struck on the 34th. So it's kind of the following. I'll leave you with this philosophy and that is as follows. Don't ever forget this. When nothing ever seems to go right, I sometimes think of a stonecutter hammering away his rock 100 times without a dent in it. And yet on the 101st blow, the rock will split in two. And I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before. If you're not willing to practice and practice to get it right, you'll never make the hundred blows that makes the breakthrough on the 101st. Good luck.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have been visiting with the legendary Harvey Mackay and New York Times best selling author Joe Sweeney. If you do not have your free basic membership at Harvey McKay Academy, please sign up today. We offer tons of free value. Leadership, sales, negotiation. If you're an author or speaker, just know we have an ongoing body of work to help you become a legendary success. In addition to all the real world events, so make sure you get your free basic membership@harveymckayacademy.com and we appreciate you being with us today. Thanks very much.

Thank you for listening to Street Smarts with Harvey MacKay. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you consume your favorite audio. Don't forget to leave a positive rating and review before you sign up for your free membership@harveymckayacademy.com to learn more about Harvey McKay, make sure to visit www.harveymaker. thanks for listening and we'll be back soon with a new episode.

Do your magic. We appreciate you.

That is a wrap. Mr. Sweeney.

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