Meet Harvey Mackay | Part 2

Hello, everyone. I want to welcome you back to my interview with Harvey McKay. Harvey, welcome back. Nice to see you again.

Nice to be back.

So in the first segment, you helped us understand how you got started, what it was like growing up in St. Paul, how your parents influenced you, other mentors, your hungry fighter mindset, your ability to network at a young age through your father's influence. And you leveraged all of that, as you told us in the prior segment, to build McKay Mitchell Envelope Company, hundred million dollar success story. Today. You went on to become one of the world's greatest authors, greatest speakers, family man, community leader and athlete. So that was what we covered in segment one. So now what we're going to talk about is digging deeper to the writing career and the creativity that you exhibit today. So help us understand. I've been really wanting to ask you this. As one of the greatest business writers of all time, you obviously love to read. So if you had to pick one book of all of any, what's your favorite book? If you had to pick one.

Well, among the seven books, if you want the accurate information, correct answer, it's a tie. So you see, that way I get an extra book in there. Swim with the sharks without being eaten alive. Happened so fast, I didn't even know what hit me. All of a sudden, you're on Larry King and you're on Oprah and you're on Good Morning America and you sold 5 million books before you can say Jack Robinson. So that was a huge thrill. And I call that take home value. But also dig your well before you're thirsty. The only networking book you'll ever need, and I might add, swim with the sharks as outsell, outmanage, out, motivate and out negotiate your competition. But dig your well before you're thirsty. It's in 200 universities. And that also changes lives because you can take all my money, Cliff. Take all my factories, take all my land from me, leave me my network, and I'll be back to where I was today in five years. That's how important that network is. So I'm very proud of that. Interesting that Jack Kemp, he ran for vice president with Bob Dole, as you may remember, many years ago. And he was a friend. I was at a meeting with him. I had a meeting with him after he was in Minneapolis. I said, I've got a new book here, Jack. Might you read it and I'd love an endorsement. He said, sure. I said goodbye to him. 24 hours later, he was named vice president candidate. Okay, on the Republican side of the aisle. Never heard from him for six weeks. Told my publisher that endorsement would not be coming through. Boom. One day. One day the phone rings. It's Kim. I love this book. I'm not going to write you an endorsement. I want to write the foreword to the book. What are you doing tomorrow? He said, I want you to come on Air Force Two. And we're going from New York to la. Which I did join him and his wife. All right, just the three of us. Press was in the back, all right. Size of a 727 airplane. And Jack Kemp wrote the introduction to dig your well before you're thirsty. And what did he say in the opening sentence? Basically, Harvey McKay was born to write this book. So that was a, that was just a huge thrill.

So the titles are to this day, still off the charts creative. Explain how you developed the creativity and came up with so many great titles.

First, it all started with my father. Again, we called it the icebox, not the refrigerator. And he would slap. They didn't have post it notes in those days. Scotch tape and a note underneath on top, whatever. And he would put all these different sayings and aphorisms. He was an aphorism junkie. Not only that, but he had it also on his mirror when he shaved. Had it everywhere. So I grew up with aphorisms. That's number one. Now I submit to you, Cliff, what would you rather have? All right, just, just, just think about this for a moment. Would you rather have the words prepare to win? You see, I've written seven books, which is 70,000 490,000 words and books, columns, Over a thousand of them at 750. 750 thousand words. Speeches I've given, you know, are a thousand two hundred. Just imagine that, how many words there are in that 90 minute speech. Now, the entire theme of all of those columns and the books and the speeches, entire theme is three words basically. Prepare to win. Boring. Who's going to buy a book? Prepare to win. Or would you rather buy a book? Beware the naked man who offers you his shirt. Dig your well before you're thirsty again. Swim with the sharks without being eaten alive. We got fired and it's the best thing that ever happened to us. Use your head to get your foot in the door. And then the MBA of selling. McKay MBA of selling. I'd rather read those books or prepare to win in something like that. So that's the reason why I really work hard on those titles. Hire an advertising agency. They hired 10 people. We spent six hours. We beat everything around, talk about it. Put the titles up on the. On the wall. Everybody gets five gold, five red, five blue, first, second, and third. Whoever's got the most gold stamps stars. That's the title. Swim of the Sharks without being Eaten alive, which was my title that got more gold stars than the other 300 titles up there. Incidentally, second place was there's no off switch on a tiger.

That was a close second.

Not at all. It was World War three. The publisher said, we're not going that title. That's deep sea fishing. People won't know it's a business book. Way too many words. Swim with the sharks without eating alive. And then I went home, got the advertising agency, brought back the six hours of research, done deal. I hit it out of the park.

Well, you also convinced them that you could come out of the gate selling a lot of books, and therefore you asked them to print a record number of books as an unpublished author. So explain how you made that happen.

That might be my most favorite story, I guess, of all in the publishing industry, but for 30, 40, 50 years, if you're an unknown author, all right, no one's ever heard of you, never published a book before, and you get one of the majors, which is five or six or seven companies. I got William Morrow and Company at the time. They're one of the world's best publishers, without question. And so here I'm trying to get a contract with them, and I go for my summit meeting. You have to understand, Ken Blanchard. Unheard of at the time. 10,000. One minute. Manager Tom Peters, In Search of Excellence. 10,000 copies. They only print 10,000 because they're not sure of you and you want more. There used to be 1500, 2000, 3000 bookstores in the United States when I wrote Swim with the Sharks. So anyway, I roll in, having that background, and the meeting goes in about 45 minutes. I finally asked for the order. I said, I'd like you to seriously consider printing 100,000 copies. One with the sharks. We're on the. We're on the 27th floor. Sales manager. National sales manager told me to jump. Closes his books. Thank you, Mr. McKay. Obviously, we're not going to get together. And then he looks at me and kind of screams, who are you coming here to ask for help? Hundred thousand hardcover copies. Never print more than 10,000. First time unknown author. Then I had brought a. Okay, I brought two humongous Rolodex files with me, put them under the table at the board that we're having the meeting brought them up on the table. 6,500 names in the two Rolodexes. First Rolodex. Okay. United States only. Here's Pillsbury, General Mills, 3M Honeywell. Same thing. Major companies all doing envelope business with me. Maybe they'll buy the book. Maybe they'll pass it along. Wow. Then all of a sudden, I went to the other Rolodex. There I had another thousand among the 6200 or 500. Paco Galadas, Madrid, Spain. Oh, he's got a thousand employees. Good friend. Maybe they'll read the book. Maybe they'll pass it along. Maybe it'll be an International bestseller. Three weeks and three meetings later, they published 100,000 hardcover copies with Swim of the Sharks. Did I know when I was 18, 18 years age, that my father would teach me all about the Rolodex? And I kept track. And all those cards. No, incidentally, I had another World War three with them over and above the name, I had fight with them. This is a big fight. But the publisher wouldn't go forward. Okay, with the title, that was number one. And then number two, I can't remember. But they had another major complaint and I wouldn't give in on it. Well, all of a sudden we delayed it. One, one week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks. I wouldn't give in. And finally I prevailed. Pushed him over the cliff again. Guess what? All right. Five million books sold. Swim with the Sharks. Oh, I know what it was. I remember now. Nobody'd ever done this before. Money back guarantee. Money back guarantee if you don't like this book. And they wouldn't put that in there, but they did. And so therefore, 5 million copies sold. 17 people asked for their money back.

It was the first time any publisher had ever done that, right?

Never. 17 people. Seven of those 17 were my best friends.

Yeah, they're still your best friends too, I'm sure. I've talked to a few of them.

Keep me humble.

Okay, so Swim with the sharks. You print 100,000 copies. 10 times what anybody had done before. Start selling like hotcakes. Your speaking career is taking off. Then you hit shark proof. Get the job you want, keep the job you love. 1994. So how did that happen so quickly?

Well, I went out and interviewed a lot of people. And one thing every author will tell you, as soon as you write a successful book, extraordinarily successful book, and sell millions of copies, that publisher is over you and all over you every day and week and month again and year. So you'll see that anyone that's ever written a New York Times bestseller. And again, very proud. I've got seven of them with three of them, number one. Very proud of that. Okay. They, the publisher will almost make you and entice you to write a second book. So that's how that book happened. Become popular and a New York Times bestseller.

So they make it worth your while. And today, as we know, the publishing world has changed and a huge part of the academy is helping our emerging authors and speakers. Speakers. Become successful. So back then, what you're really saying is they made you an offer you couldn't refuse to follow up on one book after the next because you were a top selling guy.

Absolutely. Actually, my second book was beware the naked man who offers you his shirt.

So that was 1996. Do what you love, Love what you do and deliver more than you promise, right?

That's correct.

And that one sold like hotcakes too. Again, a New York Times bestseller. So you're on a roll. But then after that it's dig your well before you're thirsty. The only networking book you'll ever need, which for me personally is by far my favorite. And I think that's true of a lot of people, isn't it?

Yeah, without question. Because how many people in this world can use networking? Like 99.999%, you know, helps you get a job, helps you make friends, gives you choices, gives you opportunities. It's incredible to build that network. And anyone can do it. That's the beauty of it.

And if the essence of everything you teach is Prepare to win, even though that's not a sexy title, what you're really teaching people is that the essence of Preparing to Win is building that network of relationships. Because you've never made a cold call in your life, have you?

Cold call?

Yeah. As opposed to working through your network.

No such thing as a cold call. You always want to get a friend to set the table for you and you have instant credibility coming in. Do you have time for another quick little story?

Absolutely. I'd love it. We'd love it.

Very succinctly, I got a call from China. They wanted me to come over and speak. There were going to be 3,500 people in the auditorium. Eight hours, four hours myself talking, and then four hours, the interpreter. And I asked him who was the speaker, and the name show remained anonymous. But one of the best speakers in the country and the world. I said, when would he. When did he speak? It's our first speaker. He was A year ago. How'd he do? They weren't happy with him. Why not? Because he had too many colloquialisms and we didn't understand. They talked a little bit too fast. So I told this person, all right, I would do it on one condition. And of course, the honorarium was beyond anyone's comprehension. These are really in the hot, hot, hot days in the 80s, the 90s, when publishing was just flourishing and setting records and going through the roof. And again, humongous honorariums. If you're an author and you want to write a book. Another reason why is because the Chinese and the Japanese and Indians, they all wanted to come and have you speak. So therefore, that was more books, more of everything. Anyway, I said, I'll tell you what, I'll come on one condition. They said, what's that? I said, I want to come 48 hours early. I want you to have a banker, a salesperson, a pharmacist, a government official, a salesman, an engineer. I want you to load that room up with 10 or 12 or 15 people that represent that are representative of the 3,500. And I want to give them my entire speech. I want to see if they laugh. I want to see if they understand the content. And if they don't, I can make changes right there on the spot. And then I've got a chance to win, prepare to win, remember? And they agreed to do that. So I got there two days early. Eight hours. I mean, you know, let them try to understand. I don't care how many pails of milk I lose. I don't want to lose the cow. You know, people just don't understand these kinds of chloroquism. So I changed the third of the speech, went out, made the speech, and they invited me back before I got home. So little things mean a lot. Not true. Little things mean everything. And then I always. I consider myself very creative. I did a very creative thing. And that is as follows. I put in 300 hours on Chinese before I arrived Berlitz Language School. So when I got up and they introduced me, obviously that interpreter next to me was going to take my English back to the crowd, okay? Of Chinese, however, many of them spoke English. So I got introduced in Chinese. I walked up and I said, catch that. Actually, they understood every single word. And why, of course, because he went to English, but he didn't go to English. He went from Chinese to English, but they understood it right away. Anyway, the lines were long when I was signing books and. And it was a humongous thrill. Very, very satisfying to make a difference in one day. Those many thousands of Chinese.

So let's jump forward to the next book after Dig youg Well, because that's pushing the envelope. How did you time the pushing the envelope book Launch as the next book.

When a person with money meets a person with experience, I'll repeat that, person with money meets a person with experience. Here's what happens. Person with the experience winds up with the money, and the person with the money winds up with the experience. So after I've written a few books, you get kind of good at the marketing, kind of get good at what the public wants. You're out there making speeches. And again, I repeat, I want constant, immediate, unfiltered feedback from my customers, customer courses, everything. So I'm on a roll again. I have momentum. People are asking me more and more. We want more information. The, you know, the waiting list for speeches is just going bananas. And so I wrote another book. And of course, pushing the envelope in the envelope business, you know, I put that in the culture. I put swim with the sharks without being eaten alive. I put that in the culture. You'll hear many people say, dig your well before you're thirsty. I put that in the culture. And of course, one other brief little story. If I may go back to swim with the sharks. Is that all right?

Please.

I'm extremely, again, proud that I changed the restaurant business. How did I change it? Well, I rode and swim with the sharks. If I'm taking. Let's say I'm taking you, Cliff, your customer. I only met you one time. I'm in your city. I find out a course through back checks what your favorite restaurant is. I go get the reservation. I get the maitre d on the phone the day before. I tell them from out of town, I'm coming in. And I say, I want the best table in the restaurant. And then I go through my list. I don't want to be in a high traffic zone sitting in the front. I want to be sitting next to, cleaning the plates. Okay. And cleaning the garbage right next to me. I want to be looking at a swinging door that goes, okay. Looking at the bathroom. I want to be in a noisy part. I want to be looking at a wall. I want to be at the middle so my customer and I can see out that one of the two of us just isn't looking at a wall. And about three other suggestions like that. And then I say with a very good smile over the phone, and you won't be sorry when I get there and of course, I give them a very flattering tip. And you know what? Then I say, don't bring the check to the table. When I get through, I'm just going to walk out. Not anymore. And of course, that's what I do. So I have, I have dinner with you. We'll get through with the dinner, we have our dessert, and all of a sudden I say, let's go. And we walk out. And you, I can tell you are flabbergasted. Every restaurant I've ever taken, anybody, they always are the next time they meet, because this is our first meeting. Clip say, Harvey, where'd that check go the first time? You have to remember now, I'm 21 years old. It was a long time ago when I came up with this. And then therefore, I wrote it in Swim of the Sharks. Five million copies sold. Everybody told everybody else. And when I go in the restaurant, people, the restaurateur does know who I am, and they're just doing this by the hundreds of thousands, getting the check in advance. So again, I'm fairly proud with that.

Creativity and testimony to that is every time I've dined with you, I have never seen a check once, no matter where we go. And that's you creating your price club and making your customer, your guests, feel super special everywhere you go in the world.

Basically, right during that lunch, guess what? I want you to think if you're going to buy from me because you're not a customer, just a prospect, I want you to think that if you become a customer, you're the only customer I'm going to have. That's it. Total unadulterated focus again every day, week and month. And that means a lot. And I'll be accessible all of the time anyway, over my career. I can only tell you it does work well.

Your customer focus, between the McKay 66, your networking skills, everything you teach. For so many years, most of us, me included, have built our networks around your principles. And given that, I want to talk about what you consider to be. I think it's what you call the most important quality of any leader. If they don't have this quality, they can't be a leader. They can't be an entrepreneurial. So go ahead, tell us. Let's talk about that, because tell everybody what that is, because that's a biggie.

I say this from the podium with all my heart and soul and might. You cannot be a CEO, cannot be a president, you cannot be an entrepreneur, cannot be a coach. President of a University sales manager. Anyone with a reporting relationship, unless you know this one tiny little four letter word. There are a million words in the English language and all you have to do is understand this four letter word. What is it? H, I, R, E. Hire. You can't hire, you're dead in the water. Hire the right person, okay? Become president of university, it goes to the moon. Which incidentally, ASU did seven, eight, nine years ago. Arizona State University. Hire the wrong football coach, Bingo. Program goes right into the tank. I could name you 25 schools that have done that. Hire the wrong CEO in the tank, hire the right one to the moon. So it's not, not very complicated. I've studied hiring for over 50 years at the feet of the best people in the country. And I can just tell you my batting average is up there around 80, 85%. Average is 60 to 70%. It's pretty tough to sit down, interview someone one or two or three times and then expect to have them be with you the next 10, 20 years. Very, very tough business.

Well, I just want our audience to know that when I did my research on you, before we started working together, I checked out McKay, Mitchell and what the company culture is like. And I think what I learned is 70 plus percent of your people have been there more than 20, 25 years. Very loyal company culture. And your sales organization has zero turnover. I understand the last three years, which is essentially unheard of in sales organizations. So would you talk a little bit about that?

Well, I have another philosophy then. The reason, the reason why Shark sold 5 million books. If you had to prioritize first reason, maybe the second and third reason. All the same one, people don't care how much you know about them once they realize how much you care about them. And this has been my philosophy. I wrote that. And there's no difference between a customer and an employee. Okay. Or a supplier. There's just no difference. And so we treat everybody all the same. And it's very important that they understand that. So we'll move mountains for our people. And how did I build my business? I built it with that philosophy. How does basically no one leave me? Real simple agreements prevent disagreements. If you fight your guts out for an agreement, Cliff, you're not going to have a disagreement. And then you have to, of course, honor your word. And I try to deliver more than I promise, whatever I tell them. And then of course, when I interview, I go back, I've got nine or 10 steps I do. And just one or two I go back to. Well, let me Give you the most controversial first. Many viewers out there will not agree with me, and I don't expect you to, but it works for me. I've never hired a key person, key person being SalesPeople. Sales Manager, CEO, President, HR Person, Factory Manager, shipping head. Never hired one of those persons in all my years, 50 plus years in business, without going to the living room, into the living room and meeting their family and children. I want that family to know this is the biggest decision I am making this year. Anyone, anyone can buy an envelope machine. Takes no talent whatsoever. But to go pick a human being and work with him or her over again, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years, that's very difficult and very challenging. One other one would be the acid test hiring. If I'm interviewing you, Cliff, again, we've never met before for a key job at our company. In the first five, eight minutes, I will think again right to my brain bank. How would I feel if Cliff Jones were working for one of my competitors? If I'm not worried, that's the end of the meeting, period. That's why I tell everybody I'm going to interview. It'd be about 15, 20 minutes. And then if it's serious, I'll go to an hour. Of course, then I have four or five, six, seven, eight meetings with them, different venues. I will go out and play golf with them. They're a golfer. I'll take them to a Broadway play. If that person is in New York, I'll let my friends interview them because they see me from a different perspective than my people at work do. So they'll find out everything. And then the last, well, there's many, many, many more. We could spend a whole hour on hiring. But the last one, that really sets the table for me, which I've been doing, been doing all this since age 26, when I got started in my business again, which I still have. The K. Mitchell Envelope Company is the current name today. All right, it's really important to set that table. And what do I mean? Cliff comes in one on one. And here's what I say. Let's say this is his fourth or fifth time in, so he's heading toward being the finalist. And I say to Cliff, okay, we've had three or four meetings. They've been very, very nice. But now this is how I want to conduct this meeting. All right? Want you to say and follow the following principle. This is what I want you to do. If you go to a doctor and you got headaches, migraines, and you've Got chest pains. And you tell that doctor about the chest pains and don't tell him or her about the migraines. Guess what? He can't help you. So therefore, I'm going to feel free to ask you any single question I want to. And I want you to feel free to ask me any question. Now, when you put that candidate at ease like that, you've got a higher probability to find out what makes that person tick.

Well, you are not only a master in hiring as a leader, but your books over the years teach career builders the other side of the equation because would just want to read a few of the titles again. Epic books. We got fired and it's the best thing that ever happened to us. 2004 fired up how the best of the best survived and thrived after getting the boot. 2005, next book, use your head to get your foot in the door. Job search secrets no one else will tell you. 2010. So what was driving your desire to write books not for leaders, but also for people trying to climb the career ladder?

Well, two things. What I saw in the marketplace, I've got to remember, I'm calling on 300 accounts. So I have a feel, touch and pulse of what's going on out there in the business world. And I kind of thought of the following paragraph, which I guess has become fairly famous. And that is, it's not the people you fire who make your life miserable. It's the people you don't fire who make your life miserable. Whenever I say that, I get more amens in a Billy Graham sermon, but this is what you have to do as a manager. And when I see the turmoil that was going on out there in those years that you're talking about and one or two hefty recessions in there and a lot of unemployed people, I just decided that, hey, my buyers have a lot of sons and daughters out there in the workplace or will be, and therefore, why not write an aid? I mean, a real aid, because they're all New York Times bestsellers. Write an aid that will help my customers. Kids, children, children. Okay, get a job. And so it was a very, very hot topic, and I just followed up on it.

So you have a desire to help young entrepreneurs through the relationship you had with their parents. And then even to this day, I hear you talk about it, you are very happy when you speak about this. You smile, beam rather. But kids are coming into the university. We have young entrepreneurs coming to the academy, and you still help people's children get their careers to the next Level, right?

Well, yes. And let me just go back again to this. People don't care what you know about them. Once they realize how much you care of them. Again, I could spend. I could spend hours on this. But just to highlight it for a second, to give you the creme la creme of that concept, of that philosophy we'd mentioned earlier, cold calls. I don't make a cold call because I do all my homework. I prepare to win, to find out as much as I can about that person. And I've got about 15 different skill sets that I have that can get me information about that particular buyer. But if you know something about every person you do business with. And again, they used to call them account. Okay, purchasing agents. Now they're called purchasing managers. Okay, which is the new name. So I'm calling on General Mills. I want the business. If I can find out how many children he has, I can find out. Okay. Having lunch with them or reading the desk, reading the walls, being able to read upside down. I'm kidding on that one. Then look what I can find. I read the pictures. All of a sudden, how many kids do you have? Where'd you go to school? I can find out where you take your vacations. If he's a Democrat or Republican. Skillfully find that out from someone else. Where they take their vacations. Again, graduated school, summer jobs. How many jobs before the. I can find out the answer. I call them a K. 66. When I was 21 years old, I came up with that 66 questions. I wanted to know about my customers. And the only thing I can tell you is it works for me. And of course, it's been copied all over the world. Once I put the 66 questions in swim of the Sharks without being live.

It'S still one of your biggest downloads, probably one of the most important pieces of work we all see from your amazing lessons over the years because there's so much to it. But all practical wisdom and everything you talked about in the early 2000s is even more applicable today when it comes to hiring, smart, leading, well, firing quickly, all the things you teach today. So let's skip to MBA, the McKay MBA of selling in the real world. 2011, another hugely successful book. So talk about how that unfolded and why it was so successful.

Well, a little background. As my speaking career has taken off for now many decades, I got invited, of course, to the top business schools, MBA programs in the United States. The Harvard's, the Stanfords, the Wharton's, the University of Michigan again, the Penn States University of Minnesota, probably in the top 20. I probably spoke in 12 or 13 of the top programs. So once again, I kind of know what's going on on campus. I've been the graduation speaker, okay, commencement speaker at University of Southern California a few years ago, Penn State University, just to name a few. So again, I'm on campus, spending time on campus and knowing what's going on on campus. Also, I sit on the board of trustees for many years, again at the Carlson School of Management, which is University Minnesota, where I graduated. So when you're going around with MBA students, when you're speaking with them, when you're having breakfast, lunch, and dinner with them, when you're mentoring them. All right, I mentored a group of 30 people recently, come back a couple years ago, which then went into the Harvey McKay University that I started, which is now going into the Harvey McKay Academy. I'm teaching MBA ers. I'm a huge believer in the MBA. I really, truly am. It's learning a foreign language. That's all. You're learning Chinese or Japanese, and you can use it the rest of your life. And having your MBA gives you choices. If you don't have time to get your mba, then no one goes to school once for a lifetime. You're in school all of your life so you can go back and take courses. You don't have to have the official piece of paper. You go back and get that accounting, go back and get that economics, go back and get all of that software, everything. And then all of a sudden, you know you have your mba. Might have had time to go to graduation and finish it, but look at, look at what you've learned, look at the skills. So the MBA gives you choices, and it's being knocked all the time. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Well, if somebody doesn't choose to go the official MBA route, there are plenty of ways they can learn from a street smart standpoint. We've created a new program, Street Smarts, which basically is our way of taking that MBA street smarts, knowledge that you've applied over the decades and taught millions of us, and delivering it to small groups of executives that fit the group model. We're looking for true leaders, sales professionals, the best of the best. So this is the kind of thing you carry forward each and every day, even in the academy as we grow it. Right.

You're spot on. You nailed it.

Okay, so in wrapping up again, I want to honor your time and thank you for being with us today. Incredible, incredibly valuable insights that you're Sharing with everybody. New book you're working on. Now, everybody wants to know what's in the works from the Master himself. So can you give us any insight on what we might expect beyond what you're doing with the Academy?

Well, you remember just a few minutes ago I said agreements prevent disagreements. So I'm going to make agreement with all the people out there in the audience. Okay. Definition of a secret is when one person knows. So, of course, as soon as I let you in on this secret, it'll no longer be a secret. But I don't mind mentioning it, even though haven't even told my publisher about it yet. But since the first of the year, I'm working on coming out with a hardcover book. The approximately 70, 75,000 words will be distributed all over the world. And again, I've written over 1200 columns. And I'm taking the best of those columns and then editing them, my favorite. And coming out with that book of columns. And of course, I know the feedback that I've had already from the marketplace because they've been printed, of course, and distributed, and 10 million newspapers virtually every week. So I'll pick those 100, 150, 200 columns, and with a lot of luck, I'll be out within 12 months with that book. So now it's no longer a secret. And, Cliff, you got it out of me. And I sincerely appreciate the very, very nice interview.

Good. Well, I appreciate your time today, Harvey. We will talk again soon. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for being with us. If you'd like to learn more about Harvey McKay, Harvey McK, you can find Harvey on social media, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter. Believe me, we're listening and we're responding to all of your messages. You can find us@harveymckademy.com get a free membership, become a member, and be part of our network. And let us help you take your business development success to another level. Harvey, again, thanks so much for being with us.

I salute and applaud you. Enjoyed it.

Thank you.