Dave Asprey | Biohacking Your Way to Entrepreneurial Resilience

The thing that causes the most pain, the most trauma, the most bitterness and regret and anger and frankly cancer and divorce and all the bad stuff in entrepreneurs. It's two traumas that are not the typical traumas that we talk about, and I actually write about these in detail and heavily meditated. One of them is betrayal and the other one is injustice. And betrayal is when you trust someone and you do the right thing for them and then they do something that harms you and they do it intentionally. And I've had a family member try to steal one of my companies, caught him red handed, went to court, had the whole bulletproof situation. I got removed from the board of my own company and if you don't learn how to let that go, it will eat you up.

Welcome to the Radical responsibility podcast. I'm Dr. Fleet Mahl and I'm excited to guide you on a journey of authentic transformation. In each episode, I'll bring you insights from leading experts to explore trauma recovery, mindfulness practices, positive psychology, and innovative breakthroughs in health, wellness and life optimization. This is a space for real conversations that inspire meaningful change, helping you find alignment with the person you were always meant to be. Let's get started. What if transformation isn't just about thinking differently, but feeling differently? Science shows us that true change happens when we align not just our minds, but also the neural networks in our hearts and guts. This heart mind connection is the key to deeper healing, resilience and expanded awareness. That's why I created the Heart Mind All Access, Membership and Community, a space designed to help you rewire your nervous system and cultivate heart intelligence and live with greater clarity and purpose. With over 1000 hours of transformational teachings specifically curated to meet your needs. You'll learn from world renowned meditation teachers, neuroscientists and experts in neuroplasticity, all sharing powerful tools to help you shift your mindset and heartset, regulate your emotions and unlock your full potential. You'll also gain unlimited access to every summit and course we've ever produced, a treasure trove of Wisdom worth over $10,000 and growing, plus live gatherings and an inspiring global community to support your journey. If you're ready to step into a more heart centered, connected and conscious life, I invite you to join us. Click the link to learn more and start your journey. Today we're at the key to unlocking your greatest entrepreneurial potential was already inside your body. In this powerful conversation, I'm joined by biohacking pioneer Dave Asprey, the founder of Bulletproof and one of the most Influential voices in human performance. From battling chronic health issues to building a global wellness movement, Dave shares how he used self experimentation, ancient wisdom and cutting edge tech to reclaim his vitality and how you can too. We explore what it really means to lead with energy, intuition and resilience. Even in the face of betrayal, legal pitfalls and the high stakes world of venture capital, Dave doesn't hold back, offering hard won lessons in founder control, storytelling and self regulation that every mission driven entrepreneur needs to hear. If you're ready to align your body, mind and business with purpose and power, this episode for you. My name is Dr. Fleet Mahl, your co host for this session and I'm really thrilled to be here today with none other than Dave Asprey. Welcome Dave.

I am so happy to get to be here. Love your work.

Great. Thank you so much. So I have this book of yours here that I'm working my way through, but I've already listened to Headstrong, the audiobook version and I have two of your bulletproof diet books upstairs on my breakfast table.

That's incredible. And the new book that comes out April 15th of 2025 is called heavily Meditated. And I think after Headstrong for you, that might be your next favorite, Head Strong. The techniques in that book are about how to make your mind work better. And whether you're a spiritual guru or an entrepreneur, you get more energy in the system and allocate better. You can meditate, you can focus, you can execute, whatever, you're jammed. It seems like this is that missing component that's been a part of a lot of spiritual practice, but not a part of CEO practice until very recently.

Well, I'm definitely looking forward to that book. You know, it's funny, I saw that name and I was wondering where. I've been working with a friend on a film having to do with prison work that she'd been working on for, I don't know, probably in different forms, 15 years now, but it never has completely gotten completed. But that was her last working title was Heavily Meditated.

Really?

Yeah, it was a play on Heavily Medicated. Right. Which I'm sure yours too.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm reluctant to ask you to encapsulate some of your origin story in just a couple minutes. And we got a lot to cover here. We did reference some of it in the bio that I read that you had some real challenges in your 20s, some really significant health challenges and some to self experimentation and dedication. You managed to turn your own health around and in the process ended up launching this biohacking movement. So I wonder if you could maybe just highlight some pivotal moments in those challenges that allowed you to turn your health around and then maybe a pivotal moment that took you into the world of becoming an entrepreneur and getting this message out at scale to people.

Well, I was unhealthy as a kid, it turns out. I figured out later I lived in a basement with toxic mold. And I've got some weird genes that make me more susceptible to inflammation. By the time I was 14, I started getting obese, had high blood sugar, but I had arthritis diagnosed. I ended up having three knee surgeries. By the time I was 23, I was on antibiotics for 15 years every month because I'd have a chronic stroke, throat and sinusitis. I had all the digestive issues you expect. Childhood asthma, adhd, Asperger syndrome, something called ODD oppositional defiant disorder, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs have a little bit of that, which makes us want to go run our own businesses. And by the time I was 26, I had made $6 million by being a co founder of a part of the first company that held Google servers when it was two people and two computers and Hotmail and Salesforce and all the big names today. We built the first data centers and I found myself attending board meetings for a $36 billion publicly traded company under the condition that I not speak because they just wanted me to learn, because I was the guy who understood our technology, because I was a deep nerd. The problem is I lost the $6 million when I was 28, made it when I was 26, and this was worth a lot of money back then compared to what that is now, which is still a lot of money. And I went through this phase of, okay, I've hit 300 pounds, I've been a vegan, I have tried every diet on the planet. I've gained and lost 10, 20, 30 pounds so many times. I went to the gym six days a week, 90 minutes a day without fail for 18 months. I did it. I'm just, I skipped Sundays. I still had a 46 inch waist and still weighed the same amount when I was done. And I, I felt like a failure. And in entrepreneurship, if you're saying, well, I'm convinced that billboard ads are how I'm going to make all my money and you buy a bunch of billboard ads and if sales don't increase, well, you wouldn't say, well, that means I'm going to buy even more billboard ads. I'm going to billboard ad even Harder to become successful. But when it comes to things like dieting and exercise, we just blame ourselves and say, so we didn't try enough and we just keep doing it. And we double down on stuff that doesn't objectively work. And frankly, that can happen with meditation too. So we kind of have a double standard with a business. We measure it, and if we invest something and it doesn't work, we change our investment and we change our strategy. With health, especially the unusual chronic things that are maybe more performance tuning, it just feels like there's nothing you can do. So you just keep doing what you're doing. You believe something works, so you just blindly set about it. Or even worse, if you're in business and you say, you know, I started the business and I know that newspaper want ads are the thing, and they work really well, therefore I know they work, therefore I will keep doing this even if they stop working. It's another problem we have with our health. When I went vegan for the first six weeks, I'm like, I feel so good. I'm, I'm getting leaner and all this. So I call this the vegan trap, by the way. It's exactly the same as the keto trap, which is you, or the carnivore trap. You do something that makes you feel great for the first six weeks, your brain says, that is a pattern, it is real. Therefore, if I do more of it and I keep doing it, it's always going to work. And we become blind to the fact that it stopped working. And this can happen with, say, AdWords. You know, if you're buying adwords and these keywords work great, you're not monitoring your campaign, your return on ad spend goes down. If you're not monitoring that, you're going to start spending money on ads that don't work. Nutrition, cognitive function, it's all the same thing. So after all of this stuff, I realized I'm a total jerk. I get hypoglybitschy, I'm anxious all the time. I've been in Entrepreneur magazine when I was 23 for being the first guy to sell anything over the Internet before there was a web browser. So I've tried kind of being famous in my own little circle. I tried being married briefly in my 20s so I would be lonely. And I tried being rich. And I was miserable after all those things. So that's what set me on the, the biohacking path of studying longevity so I could get my brain and my energy back, get my emotions working. And it's what I can't say. It's what set me on the path of entrepreneurship. That's in a. When I was 12 years old, I could read Entrepreneur magazine and fantasize about being an entrepreneur. And so I did it early on, but that's my background. There's a lot of other career success in the tech world. And maybe just to fill in the story, after I'd exhausted the western medicine, things that were supposed to make me well and happy, I started doing the stuff that as a computer scientist doesn't make any sense. You know, going to the Himalayas, going to the Andes, studying with masters of different lineages. And when I started something, this is absurd, but I got nothing else to do. And I feel like I'm in the car, I'm pressing the accelerator all the time and it's slowing down and you can't press the accelerator further than to the floor. And it's a feeling of helplessness. And so many entrepreneurs I've coached are in that state. We just don't show it to our employees or to anyone else because you know, what are you going to do about it? So it's this kind of silent suffering thing. So from that perspective, I was desperate. I did the things that I didn't believe would work because I realized the things I believed were going to work like cutting calories and semi vegetarian diet and over exercising, they didn't work. So I got nothing else. What am I gonna do? So I found myself in a very remote part of western Tibet that you know well on Mount Kailash and I had yak butter tea and very high altitude. And all of a sudden my brain turned on in a way that made no sense. It was like the heavens opened up, like a light bulb went on. And I said, I remember when my brain used to work like this and because I'm trained at high altitude mountaineering, you're not supposed to feel good at high altitude. You're supposed to feel kind of like you're dying, cuz you sort of are. And I just remembered that and came back and eventually discovered through the process of just testing, if I put butter and MCT oil in coffee without mold, magic happens. And if I use the wrong butter or I use the wrong, the wrong coffee or just the wrong liquid, it doesn't work. And so through the course of trial and error I came up with this. And now we understand all the biochemistry about why. But the blog post I was writing, it used to be called the Bulletproof Executive. No one ever talked to entrepreneurs, no one ever talked to CEOs and innovators in a language that was for us. And you can hack yourself, you can upgrade your biology. These made doctors really mad. When I talk about like, how dare you. Even some of the personal development sort of the, the you are enough kind of a vibe, I'm like, no, I'm sorry, that's not what I'm here for. I want to be way more than enough. And like I want to do something that really matters and I want to feel really good and energized and I want to know I can handle anything life brings my way without breaking. And it was just a different vibe and it shifted our language around how we talk about health and wellness and personal development where there's an aspirational component to it versus just a healing component. I'm someone who had to heal from deep ptsd, from the way I was born, and from bullying and having a non neurotypical brain until I reverse that and I have a brain that would measure as mostly neurotypical now, just faster. And when I look at the path I've been on and all the suffering and all the wasted time and wasted energy, both entrepreneurially and on learning how to operate my emotional and spiritual and physical body, that's what I do. I teach people, I teach entrepreneurs and everyone else. Here's what you don't know and here are the things that give you the results the fastest. And it's. I feel like it's my calling because I feel like I suffered more than you. I'm not you personally, but just listening. I probably had the medical condition. I probably made the mistake at this point.

So, Dave, I want to get into. Your career has a lot of different levels and dimensions to it as an entrepreneur and I later we'll talk about your books and publishing as a way to expand your voice and your reach. But initially with Bulletproof Coffee, what you described your discovery with the yak butter tea in Tibet, and then you came back and doing the testing to develop what became Bulletproof Coffee, you really created a new category altogether. And I don't know whether how much of that was strategy, how much of it was serendipity, but I wonder if you could talk about how we can. Sometimes in a world of market, you hear a lot about really niching down. So you're not trying to compete with everybody in a huge space. So the more you niche down, you know, the more you can dominate a niche. Creating your own niche, a brand new category of something is very powerful. Of course, a lot of Competition will come in eventually. But I wonder if you could just talk about that, those dynamics of the scan of a marketplace that markets you choose to compete in. The possibilities of creating a new category, niching down within a category just in terms of your experience, if you could.

Talk about that a little bit to understand that fully. There's about four categories that created the biggest and broadest. One is the biohacking category itself and industry analysts say $63 billion valuation in the next couple years of the total size of the biohacking market from the first conference. We're still doing them biohackingconference.com and you know, 4,000 people show up and it's a vibrant community, that whole thing. So that's a category in and of itself. Then within the subcategories, I created the functional coffee category. It's probably half a billion dollars today. And of course people copied me, like, oh, you mean coffee's a performance enhancer. I'm like, you don't think it's mother nature's original smart drug? Like coffee is mother nature's pre workout and smart drug. And nicotine is our other smart drug. That's why people have been craving this forever, because we like it when we have energy in our brains work. Smoking's bad for you. Just to be really clear, just nicotine might have some neurological benefits. So from that perspective, that's one category. And then there's MCT oil. It was only used in pharma or in like topical solutions and all. And I turned it into a billion dollar category with lots of companies competing. And then collagen was just a not paid attention to supplement at all. And today there's hundreds of collagen companies and I single handedly made collagen a billion dollar industry category. And if you look back through our media, I mean there's hundreds of articles in all of the magazines, men's magazines, women's magazines, going, oh my gosh, what is this new protein? What is it that comes from thought leadership and what I hear from the entrepreneurs that I work with. And I do run something called the business of Biomacking conference where we coach entrepreneurs like a couple hundred at a time. So I've gone very deep on this. Most entrepreneurs are saying I want to create a category, a new niche that is really expensive. I raised 80, actually almost $90 million in venture capital in order to do this. And it's relatively risky. The reason I was able to do that is number one, I started the business as a blog without a business plan because it wasn't going to be a business. I made a quarter million a year plus stock options as a VP at Trend Micro of large public trading computer security company. I am a computer hacker. I started the blog so five people would not suffer as much as I had with all these illnesses. Like, I'm going to find five people who are just so trashed and are struggling and still succeeding and I'm going to give them the keys. That's my win. And if more than five people care, great. And it was only when I said I gotta buy coffee, that doesn't give me the jitters. Maybe I. Maybe other people wanna buy. It was almost an accidental business with two very young kids. And in my career I probably didn't need to start a company, but I was called. So the content was a form of giving and sharing and teaching and not a form of manipulation. As I was walking around Mount Kailash, I was just pondering, no one will come to the Longevity nonprofit meetings that I'm actually the president of. This I was at the time president of a group that would bring the luminaries in the field of longevity before everyone thought it was real and they would teach every month to the community. No one from Google would show up in our meetings four minutes from Google's headquarters. So my problem was only old people care about being young. So I have to rebrand Longevity. So I did and I called it biohacking. And the idea is that the things that make old people young make young people powerful and wow. So I need a name for these techniques because no young person is going to pay attention to longevity. They're going to pay attention to building their tribe, building their career, building their power, finding a life partner and all of the things that we're supposed to do as young men and women when we're not broken by our nutrition and by trauma. So reframing biohacking as it is an act of controlling your biology to get what you want. Maybe it's abs, maybe it's peacefulness, maybe it's energy. You get to choose and no one gets to choose for you. And there's no judgment about it. You're just going to do what works. And if you think something works, measure it. If it doesn't, do something else. And I did not trademark the term. And this is the biggest mistake that people make. You have to understand, if you want to make a global movement, you're probably not going to own the word. If you want it to be in Webster's Dictionary, if you want there to be Millions of biohackers in Japan and South Korea and in South America. And there are in all of these markets and I've sold books in them. Not that selling books makes you any money, but the idea here is it is now a global movement. I fly to Dubai and people recognize me on the street, go biohacking. This is great. I'm like, how is this even possible? It's possible because I did not do that. And now there's probably five people who tried to copy my biohacking conference. All of them fail because they don't attract the right people because I have a strong community. It's almost like if you look at what happened when Linux and the first open source companies came around, like, who's going to go up against Microsoft? Are you stupid? Well, Microsoft has a huge amount of open source code today and a lot of the Internet is based on open source things. It wins over time. So my idea here, as a computer hacker who supports open source and has since the first open source thing came around in what, 1996 or something, I believe we should have the source code to our own bodies, to our consciousness, to our biology, and that we have the right to manipulate that by any means necessary with no intervention. And so it attracted me to say, well, biohacking is a movement about us. It's not my movement. I am the called the spiritual leader or, you know, the man who created it and still sets the standard for it. But many others have said, well, I'm gonna try and do a conference that competes or I'll do something, you know, copy Dave's blog or whatever. This is what happens when you start a movement. And if you sit in anger or envy or bitterness about that, it actually eats at you. So you always want to be aware of that. The other thing that you could do as a strategist, you could say, well, I'm going to trade market and you can do pretty well with that. There's a movement. Mo Gao is a part of that. He's been on my podcast as well. He has the One Billion Happy movement. This is the former head of Google's advanced R and D development and a very conscious human. And he basically said, okay, I'm going to create this movement as a nonprofit. You could do that just when you own the name, people are lining up underneath you. And there are business reasons to do that. But if you really want to do what I did, which is multiple billion dollar catego, not that I sold billions in each one, my lifetime revenues at Bulletproof when I was Running it before they fired me was 750 million in lifetime revenue and 140 million annual revenue. Pretty solid. And you can do that by consistently sitting in a place of gratitude and in place of service. And to do this, you've got to break some rules. At Wharton, where I got my mba, they actually taught us if you spend a dollar telling people your product is high quality, you'll make more money than spending a dollar making a high quality product. And the reason for that is even if you make a high quality product, you have the crap product and the good product, well, you still have spend money telling people it's good. So you'll always make less money that way. And that might be true, except I have this weird belief that people aren't stupid. By the way, given the last five years, maybe I'm wrong, but what I believe is that people will spend a little bit more for something that is objectively higher quality. So I just make stuff that's so good I can't buy it anywhere else. And the collagen protein that I made, the coffee beans that at the time when I was at bulletproof said mold free on the labels. Today they just say clean. Those are things that people were willing to pay more for because they could feel the difference. The MCT oil that I made, well, I told people work better than the street grade MCT oil. And five years after I launched it, a study came out of UC San Diego showing that the C8MCT that I used that was more expensive was the one that reversed Alzheimer's disease in phase 2 clinical trials. So. Oh, that's so weird. People will pay more for good stuff. Like, did we forget that? Is the whole world supposed to be a swap meet? I feel like Amazon did that to us because I'm a contrarian. The other thing I did when I launched as an Entrepreneur is around 2011 was my first blog post for the biohacking movement. And maybe 2012 was the first biohacking conference. So everyone was saying, you're gonna make all your money in information products. It's so easy to sell information and newsletters and courses. And I'm like, I don't actually ever complete any course that I buy and neither does anyone else. And I just feel like it's kind of scammy to just use high pressure video sales letters. And I'm probably crapping on half my friends who've been on this, you know, good marketing friends who've taught me so much. But if I use a high pressure sales tactic to get someone to spend 999 on a series of video courses to teach them something that they probably could have read in a few business books. It's not unethical because the person has free will, right? And there are lots of ways to influence them. But it's not what I wanted to spend my life doing, because I did just didn't feel good. So I gave my most precious information away. I still do in my books and on the blog and podcast. And the deal is, if you like it, why don't you buy some coffee? It's like a reverse thing. There are a few places where if you like a blog post or something on Reddit or on substack, you know, click here to buy me a cup of coffee. Kind of a thing. Like, well, just why don't you buy the whole bag of coffee? Like, I will deliver so much value to you regardless of whether you ever spend a dollar with me, that if you're going to spend a dollar, you're going to, number one, you're going to trust me. And number two, you might spend it with me, and I'm at peace with that. And if you spend it with some knockoff competitor and, you know, it gives you what we used to call disaster panics, which is what low grade MCT oil does to you, that's okay, too. But to not sit in like entitlement or anger or envy or greed and just say, if this changes people's lives for the better, that's my win and I have faith and trust that I'm gonna make money along the way. Now, there are ways to probably make more money than that. Just to be super clear, if I just talked about the Keto Diet. Bulletproof Diet was the first big book on modern keto with clean fats. It was the first big book on intermittent fasting. I could have picked any one of those and built my brand around it or around collagen protein only. And one of my competitors, when I was at Bulletproof, we were probably doing 20, 30 million a year in collagen, and we're in five other categories. One of our competitors who kind of came in, saw the success we were having, they went to the same venture capital firm I worked with, and those VCs were on my board, called me up one day and said, we're putting $30 million in your nearest competitor in the category, and we're taking our board observer and putting them on their board of directors. And I, I mean, I call my company attorney. Like, is this legal? So a few months after you know, my product roadmap magically appears on the shelves with someone else's names on that. I'm not saying anyone did anything, you know, unnatural there, because that would be wrong. But what the f. Right? That company exited for 800 million, and I, Bulletproof, well, they took some actions to remove me from the board and then recently sold the company for a tiny fraction of what it was worth when I was running it against my will. So that was not the ultimate win. If we had executed the way I would have liked, and I. If I had been able to stay in control and drive it, it would have been an incredibly powerful exit. So maybe I should have just picked one category and gone for it, But I did. It's called the biohacking category. And that means, yes, Bulletproof was in ready to drink, it was in supplements, it was in protein powders, it was in oils, and it was in coffee. Five categories. And I also had four or five other things like events and coffee shops, and I spun that stuff out, and they're all turning into businesses that are very valuable today. And also I now have a portfolio of biohacking companies. I just maybe suffer from something that a lot of entrepreneurs do is it feels good to create. It feels good to create products. It feels good to create companies until you have to run them. So that's something I've learned over time. But if you really want to go big, you make the category and you don't own the name, and you don't fight against becoming a Kleenex. If someone wanted to say, you know, bulletproof is the next Kleenex, when I was around Bulletproof, I'd have just gone, you know, I sent warning letters all the time. But if you want to say biohacking, yes, we're all in this together. Like today, my new coffee company, it's called Danger Coffee, and it's Danger because who knows what you might do? Like, you might ask that girl out. You might start a company. And I can't say my goal, but the inevitable outcome for that company is that it will sell more coffee by revenue than Bulletproof did when I ran it. And it'll do it because I'm following the game plan of I have a better product than anyone else, and I have people's trust because they've seen me consistently show up as who I am, saying the things, showing, talking about when I'm wrong. And so there's trust, and it's trust for millions of people, and I'm incredibly, profoundly grateful for that. And I treasure it and I protect it. So that's really hard to compete with. But man, it takes time and it takes a lot of personal development work to get there if that's the path someone wants to go on.

Wow, what a fascinating journey. And thank you for, for unfolding that for us. And really interesting you've taken kind of this, if I understood correctly, you focused on really becoming a thought leader, a deep thought leader in a sense, in these categories. And you decided to take more of an open source method than Ryan trying to control the category with trademarking and so forth along the way. As you said, there might have been ways you could have capitalized more and made more money this or that. I mean, you, you could say the current longevity craze, a longevity interest has been around for a long time, but the current longevity movement is really a reflection of the biohacking movement. So you could really talk about five categories.

Thank you. Fleet, just to interrupt you for a second there, the whole, not the only goal, but a major goal of biohacking was to make longevity real in our minds. And over the last 14 years of doing biohacking, now we have VCs investing in it. And I've met with all Those guys in 2014 pitching bulletproof and talking about longevity. And you know, Andrew Huberman came on my podcast before he started his podcast and we're talking about it and you know, all of the leaders in longevity, the whole category is exploding and is worth about $600 billion today according to industry analysts, because of all the med tech and things that fall into it now. And I don't think that would have happened did we not have a bunch of tech people and visionaries going, I'm going to do this. And you know, that's led to, you know, to Brian Johnson's latest stuff, very similar. I spent 2 1/2 million dollars over 20 years extending my spending $2 million a year on it. Neither one should be necessary, but I'm happy there's people doing it because discovery happens constantly. So thank you for noticing that. That was a big goal.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, the tech world and so forth, getting involved in a way gave a lot of credibility to it. In fact, longevity used to be associated a lot with kind of snake oil. Now it's really associated with a lot of credibility and, and that's really been sourced a lot and from your work. And it sounds like, you know, along the way you've created these categories, you took more of this open source thought leader. It doesn't Sound like you have a lot of regrets about not having capitalized more on it than you have with the size of these industries currently. Is that completely true or do you have. Are there things that you would have done maybe differently if you had them to do over again? Not necessarily. Maybe in terms of taking a control approach, but even in a way you navigated what ended up playing out with Bulletproof Coffee and the rest of it, unquestion. I'm looking for lessons here for entrepreneurs here in the audience.

Basically, the number one lesson is, and this is something that a couple people told me who knew better, and I was too stubborn to listen, especially when I was just getting going, you need to have a badass attorney who represents you. And you need a badass attorney represents your company when you're fundraising. And your attorney should advise you, and then the company attorney should advise the company. I made the mistake of hiring one of the, you know, high end law firms when I was doing my fundraising. And I said, well, they're. Because I'm hiring them, they're kind of, I know they don't represent me, but they're kind of watching out for my interest in the paperwork. And, you know, we're talking about the pros and cons. And you know, I walked out of the meeting with the VCs, not expecting to ever do a venture raise for Bulletproof, expecting that I was going to go in and talk to some guys I'd worked with before and say, I need a couple million bucks. Just personally, I'll do a convertible note. I just need inventory. And you'll never fund my company because I'm in too many categories. And they. And I walked out the door with $8 million and suddenly my company's worth $40 million or something. And I'm like, wow, my net worth just kind of got really big here. Like my head is spinning. But I took the venture capital money because it would be so much dry powder to reach millions of people versus just growing organically. So it wasn't about just, I'm gonna have a giant coffee company. It was, I'm gonna be able to support the movement which will grow the coffee. And it was the right long term strategy. Problem was, I didn't have someone watching my back. And there were a few times when I got advice. When I was on my first round and on my third round, that was actually not good advice, not for me. And maybe it was good for the company. And what VCs will do is the same thing that governments do is they get the potato peeler out and they just peel away a little bit of your rights. And then when you notice and go, hey, oh yeah, sorry about that, we'll stop. They don't put the potato peels back on ever, right? And then they do it again and then you say hey, that's not okay. And then they stop and eventually they'll say, well, we're only taking this peel of the potato because it's good for both of us, right? Because it's a win win. Right? Venture capitalists are not win win, they are take all. And there are great human beings who are VCs. I have some very good friends who are them. As a information field living organism, the venture capital underlying life force is maximized control and maximize profits at the cost of founders and employees. That's their job and you can never forget that. So every time they tell you to screw yourself even a tiny bit for the group benefit, you say no, thank you. And you have your attorney review anything they want you to sign and the company attorney. And if you have a good attorney, it can save you. In my case, I would have had another zero like I should have a hundred million dollars. Now if I had played my cards right, I did not play them right. And I came up against some very, what I would call some very dirty shenanigans. And it's on me. You know, there's a time I should have said, oh no, you don't get that board seat. There was a time I should have said, no, I'm not going to sign that agreement. And I did it because I was naive and I thought we were playing a win win game because I play win win games in my life and I, I assumed other people did the thing that causes the most pain, the most trauma, the most bitterness and regret and anger and frankly cancer and divorce and all the bad stuff. In entrepreneurs, it's two traumas that are not the typical traumas that we talk about. And I should write about these in detail in heavily meditated. One of them is betrayal and the other one is injustice. And betrayal is when you trust someone and you do the right thing for them and then they do something that harms you, right? And they do it intentionally. And I've had a family member try to steal one of my companies, caught them red handed, went to court, had the whole bulletproof situation. I got removed from the board of my own company. And if you don't learn how to run, I call the reset process in heavily meditated. If you don't learn how to let that Go. It will eat you up. And I have seen so many entrepreneurs driven to alcohol and drugs and sex addiction and just destroy their lives because they were so terribly harmed by someone they trusted. It hurts way more. But I did everything right. I trusted this person. And they just turned around and they did this for their own gain. And sometimes even worse, they do it because there's malevolence and they want you to fail because they're jealous. So I had to go through this 10 year journey of learning discernment to very subtle skills to understand when is someone feeling envy, when is someone saying one thing and feeling another? And my standards have gotten incredibly high. And when I sense contempt in my company, I fire em right away. And I'm dating a top relationship coach and expert named Christina Weber. And she's brought all of the different relationship algorithms and techniques that I. You could think of together in the group that she runs and that I support her with called We Deepen. But one of them is you look at the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. In relationships, the most predictable way to see if two people will get divorced is contempt. And if one partner feels contempt for the other, it is very hard to recover that relationship. If someone on your executive team feels contempt for you, they will feel entitled to destroy your reputation and steal all of your cookies. So for my entire executive team, we have a good culture now. If that comes up anywhere in the company, we have a cultural red flag alert for that and we address it right away. And it's almost always by firing. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding. We're going to be forgiving, but that doesn't work. And it's not just contempt for me, it's contempt for our mission, contempt for the business. Like, we don't sit with that. But how do you know if someone's feeling contempt for you? How do you know if someone's feeling envy? Those are the things that eat us up. And if you're sitting there with injustice, I did the right thing and I still got punished, or I did the right thing and someone intentionally harmed me, those are emotional, like soul wounds. And if you don't address those spiritually or with your therapist or with your partner, your spouse, whatever, man, you're not going to like your life. And so I went through that multiple times right on top of each other. And I'm grateful that I have come through as a peaceful person. But I tell you, it was not, it was not easy. So anyone listening? 90% of entrepreneurs I coach have had people steal from them. It's Common and it's because we're, we're focused on our thing. We're not. We don't expect people to screw us, but they will.

That's been my experience as a business consultant as well as I've had at least one really difficult partnership issue. And so you shared so much really valuable information there, valuable wisdom really. I think we probably have a lot of bootstrapping entrepreneurs in our audience. But if you are going to go get outside capital, I think you gave us some really powerful advice there. Make sure you have two separate legal teams. Why not looking after the company's interest and the other after looking at your own interest as a founder? And then, you know, I think I make the assumption to everybody in our audience here because if they're attracted into what we're doing, I make the assumption everybody here is somebody who believes in Win win and that's where the real sustainable business and wealth and prosperity is, is in the win win space. But not everybody shares that. And that's something we don't want to be naive about. That's why we need to. We're trying to find those Win Win people to work with, but we don't want to be naive either. And then also what you said about if we do suffer one of those kind of wounds, we really need to do our healing work because that'll really kind of pollute the space on our own mind and all our possibilities and could really get in the way of a lot of potentially very positive relationships. So doing our healing work around that is so critically important. So thank you for all that. There's just so much wisdom in there and so many ways entrepreneurs audience could aboard some real, real, not just pitfalls, but, you know, falling into a quarry or something. So I wonder if you could talk, you know, the various categories you're in now and the ones you've been in the past now you chose to go the venture capital route with bulletproof coffee and you said you wouldn't have been able to establish that category in the way you did without that level of capital. Or have there been other things in which you've taken more of a bootstrapping approach or what do you, what kind of recommendations you have or what's your sense of that choice point and whether it could be, you know, you're not going to grow as fast bootstrapping it, but obviously you have a lot more control over your destiny. So I'm curious about your thoughts around that whole issue where one might be more applicable and the other might be more Preferable.

You should always bootstrap at the beginning as much as you can. So I talk about when I raised my first round. I didn't talk about what happened first. So I had just moved from Silicon Valley to a remote island on Canada to Vancouver Island. I have two young kids and I've spent a lot of my free cash on move and things like that. And I'm looking to start a business. I didn't quit my day job so I'm supporting the business with my meaningful salary. And then I took some consulting work on the side where investment bank flew me around the world to teach hedge fund managers how to raise their IQs. They gave me $50,000 to do this and that was my startup capital for bulletproof was 50 grand was all it took. I hired a young guy, 23 years old for 600 bucks a month who lived in his grandmother's basement to do all this stuff that I needed done that I knew how to do that I have time to do. And I knew he would screw it up because he had done it before. But he was the unusual kind of person who could solve a problem on his own by doing research. Most new employees just tell me what to do. And he was the guy I could say he said I don't know how to code. So I decided to learn how to code over the evening enough that I could solve this problem. And so that decision cost me millions of dollars in mistakes he made. It just made me a lot more millions of dollars in stuff he got done. So very, very lean. I grew the business to $27 million in revenue before I took on venture capital money. And that means that by the time we raised our Series C financing since 1986 when our our lead VC was founded, they were the first investor in Starbucks. I had more founders equity than any founder ever because I waited on the venture capital and I raised when I didn't need it. I was skyrocketing. And that's the time you want to raise. A lot of founders like I just need to go raise this money and then they raise at a time where they don't have the revenue or they raise too much and things like that. So that would be the way to do it. And I would just say bootstrap as long as you can. But if you decide I'm not going to grow as fast as I could or should grow or that the market demands if I don't raise capital, number one, raise from high net worth individuals and family offices. And the reason for this is that they Have a longer time frame, especially family offices. VCs if you're not in and out in seven years, they're going to put all sorts of weird treasure. I like to describe venture capitalists as hitchhikers. So you pick up a hitchhiker, they're happy to pay for gas with their credit card as long as you're going where they want. But the second you want to go a different direction, they're going to stab you and kick you out of your car. Like that's not the kind of hitchhiker you want. Family office guys are going to say, you know, I don't, I'm cool going where you want to go as long as it's a good place. And it's gonna take a little longer. Just communicate with me. So you end up working like working together on things. And some of them are very hands off. So it's always bootstrap family office, if you can do it, or inet worth individuals, people who are true believers in your mission and they're going to be more flexible and then if you need it, VCs. But you need to just be very grounded and have good support. So when the VCs ask for something stupid, you can literally look them in the eye and say that's not gonna work. And they're actually testing you subconsciously to see if you're a sucker or not. And frankly, I probably was. I worked for VCs. I have been in venture capital partner meetings after the VCs walk out at least 75 times. I know kind of how they think, but the secret algorithm of peeling off layers of rights until suddenly you know the leg of your stool is weak, it's pretty hard to see. So I own that one.

Again, great advice. And I've seen some founder entrepreneurs go down some pretty heartbreaking routes with venture capital not having the right advice and right approach. And I've also seen, I had a client that was very successful company in a very value added, honorable space, really trying to clean up the toxicity out of schools and universities and sports stadiums and so forth. And they came in with innovative technology and basically created a category, but decided to bootstrap all the way and never did go for outside capital and really lost control of the category and really kind of ended up in the public domain and taken over by much bigger players. So I'm sure there is a sweet spot when you want to make the right decision. And that advice to consider the possibility of family offices and high net worth individuals as opposed to VC is also sage advice. I wonder if you could talk about. Let's circle back to. You talked about being a thought leader. And so that has to do with communication and obviously it can have to do with providing really credible information, but also storytelling. And so in the creation of a brand and the creation of a category, and then as a fundamental marketing strategy, as a founder, whichever route you're taking to grow your business, grow your market, grow your niche, or grow your own brand, the role of storytelling. And you've mastered that, you have a number of best selling books and you're coming out with more all the time. So I wonder if you could talk to us about the power of storytelling as it relates to the entrepreneurial journey.

Storytelling is a learned skill. And I mentioned earlier I had Asperger's syndrome. I did not have strong social skills, but I had strong systems understanding and pattern recognition skills, as is common with that kind of neurological dysfunction. And I know I just pissed off half the Asperger people by calling dysfunction, but guys, you can have an Asperger's brain that works much better than it does. So anyway, from that, I didn't understand how to connect energetically or empathetically with the people I was talking to. And I would just assume they were like me. All humans are wired to assume others are like you. They are not. We all have different brains, different patterns, different understandings, different traumas, different friction points. So two things happen. I learned early on in my tech career that the stupid solution often wins because it has good marketing. So if you're an inventor and you have the best widget and it's so good that you protect it so much or you do such a shitty job or selling it that no one ever uses your invention, There's a word for that, it's called a failed inventor. So if you have something that is precious and is worth the world's attention, you have to learn how to tell people. So I decided I'm going to have to learn how to do public speaking, which was really unnerving for me. Not only was I obese, like I did not have the right social skills. And I gave my first talk in front of 1500 people at something called the Web Guild. This is for we did. The word webmaster hadn't been made up yet. So this was the first probably thousand webmasters in Silicon Valley. I don't remember anything I said because I was terrified the whole time, but they laughed and now it was successful. They asked me to speak some more. I'm like, I have no skills here, so I ended up running the Web and Internet engineering program at the University of California, Santa Cruz in Silicon Valley for five years. Three nights a week, I would teach a room full of 50 engineers how to build the Internet. If you spend enough time in front of an audience, you learn how to do it. After my first class, a mentor, Sammy Dunston. Dave, you're the worst teacher I've ever seen. My God, like, we're gonna have to fire you. But then he taught me how to do it, and I practiced. And then I went through coaching programs, multiple coaching programs that took three days, five days a week to learn how to do this. And then I did the Heartmath Institute stuff that I discovered through longevity practice. Then I did the energetic things. I have done all the esoteric practices in caves, all that stuff, to learn how to connect with the signals below the neck so that when I walk on stage, even what I'm doing right now, I have aligned my. Well, there's multiple levels here, but I'm aligning the heart rate variability. I'm what people call the heart chakra from that kind of thing, or you call it my vagal response. And my autonomic nervous system, I've aligned those for full presence. And there's some other things that I do when I go on stage that makes my energy field very large. I've spent six months of my life with electrodes on my head doing advanced meditation. That's the subject of heavily meditated from 40 years of Zen, my neuroscience thing for entrepreneurs. That means that the amplitude, the height of the waves of my brain power, even from the things that are coming off from other magnetic fields in my body, they are very strong and very orderly. And that means with focus, intention, I can stand backstage or on stage and I can literally radiate power, and I can let people feel what I am doing. And the biggest problem that no one teaches is called congruence. And when someone is congruent, their outer state matches their inner state. And you don't think about congruence in another person, you feel congruence in another person. And I learned through trial, error, and lots of failure that when I'm delivering a story, when I'm teaching about a technology, when I'm explaining how mitochondria are the foundations for consciousness or whatever I'm teaching, I am simultaneously using words, and I'm simultaneously using all of my energetic biology to do that. And that means that when people are sitting there, their nervous systems will relax. And if I choose exactly the right words, you can choose Language that will enter the consciousness without a splash. The way you see an Olympic diver, they dive in. How do they do that? The water just parted for them. When you are conscious in your use of language, I mean, absurdly conscious, the words go in and then they don't trigger any alert system in the person's biology. They don't trigger any traumas or any friction or any. But I don't understand. I remember when, you know, Ms. Johnson in third grade yelled at me. None of that. So they go, oh, that feels like he really believes it. And it looks like he's pretty trustworthy because he's pretty smart and all that kind of stuff or whatever their story is, then they can really focus and be present. And if people who worked on stage would work on their inner state instead of just saying, well, walk with your hips out and, you know, strut like a, you know, whatever, and, you know, own the stage and shout and use the strong voice and be an alpha male, okay? If you want to be an Alpha male, and that's your thing, you better be an Alpha male all the way down to your root chakra, and you better radiate that from every report. Frankly, Alpha males aren't even real. You can't do that. The guy who did all the research on alpha males and wolf packs, he made a mistake. It turns out the real leader of the pack is the one who's in the back watching out for all the other ones. And it's the young, dumb, aggressive ones that are in the front. And he spent his entire career trying to fix the alpha male myth that he created. So, like, you can try to radiate. I'm the alpha male leader. Even if you hold that energy, it won't land around with people because they know you're not the one in charge. You just think you are, right? So you got to really do the personal development work so that you're internal and external after you do that. The reason you can tell a story is because the story is real and it is authentically real. From the lowest level of the vibration of the atoms in your body all the way up to all the different biophotons and magnetic fields that come off of you. And it is entirely congruent. And if you can do that, people are going to pay attention and they're going to know that it is real, and they're going to know that you are real, and they are going to trust. And the question that makes me so frustrated when I'm coaching these entrepreneurs at my business conference, like well, how do I signal authenticity? I'm like, you're holding. The sign says I'm authentic. You can't. We don't think about authenticity. You can con people, but authenticity. People feel it in their bones. Right? And so, you know, I hope I'm not falling into my own ego when I talk about this. It was hard to learn these techniques and hard to learn how to even know what's going on inside my body. Cause I don't think I grew up with that the way most people do. I did a careful study of this with thousands of hours and a lot of tech, because I had to fix the way my eyes moved. I had to fix the way I hear sounds. I had to fix the way my tongue moved. I'm still learning how to crawl properly, the way most people do when they're 18 months old, because my hardware didn't come with those settings. And it's been a blessing. It's also been a huge amount of cost and, you know, pain and all the other stuff. But if you just understand, your inner state is what tells your story, the outer stage is just the frosting. And you better be good at frosting cakes. But that's easy to learn.

Well, I love that. So you made it clear that storytelling and public speaking are learnable skills. It sounds like you. You did the conventional things of what you could learn about how to do those things correctly, but you've also integrated it with biohacking and with the meditative work and really learning how to navigate your own body and mind thoroughly. And you've integrated all that into being able to not only put the words together in the right way, but have the powerful presence that's deeply authentic in your bones and connected genuinely with the story. And that's going to have an impact on people.

There's another aspect to this that I think entrepreneurs would really benefit from. And it has to do with making business decisions and with public speaking and with storytelling. And it's that when a little tiny, intuitive thought enters your mind, it enters very quickly. And if you're like most humans, immediately you'll have an emotional response that says, don't pay attention to that. Instead, pay attention to your brain. And then you think about it a bunch, and then you just throw away that first little thought because it was smaller than the emotion and smaller than the thought. If you learn to calm the ego, which is that emotional voice that tells you not to listen to your intuition, you already know the answer to so many things. You don't think you know the answer to. So when you're on stage and your mind goes blank because you're afraid the first thing you're going to do is start talking unless you're trained and you realize the longer you wait, the more people lean in to hear what you're gonna say. And then you can wait as long as you want in order to find the next word. And it just makes you look smart. So that's like step one. But step two is most people will start ruminating right there on say, what am I gonna say? I gotta make up some stuff. Okay, what do I mean if I gotta fill in the spots? Okay, what am I gonna say next? And all that inner dialogue is going. And if you can learn to shut up the inner dialogue, when you're quiet, the right thing to say next will just appear. But it's that first intuition. And you're not allowed to take the ego and then the brain and then to ruin that. So you could tell me, Dave, you're giving a talk on X topic 20 minutes from now in front of 10,000 people, and I would show up and you could measure my heart rate variability and I would be on it and I would know what to say and it would be a 8 out of 10 talk without any preparation other than going to chat GPT, making sure the outline agreed with what I thought of. That's because I am going to, in real time, channel this stuff from my unconscious or from the collective conscious or from God, whatever you think you people channel from, I don't know, I have my thoughts, but we're all capable of that. You just have to have a state of peace, which means a state of not being afraid. And this is why for entrepreneurs, you work on your fear reaction. You work on fear reaction over and over. And when that happens in the boardroom, intuition will come. And then in the product creation type, you're, oh, wow, I never thought of that. And they just flow. But the more energy goes into fear, more energy goes into hunger and thinking about tacos. And the more energy goes into distractions, the less energy goes into creation. And if you're going to be a solid leader, a solid storyteller, solid entrepreneur who holds the line when the business is at risk, when an employee misbehaves, if you're going to do that, and you better learn how to biohack and you better learn the techniques of self regulation. And the number one technique of self regulation isn't meditation. That doesn't make you happy. But the number one technique is have more energy because you use Energy to self regulate. So step one, add a lot more energy, make your mitochondria bigger and stronger. This is why so many execs use my techniques. Because, well, if I have more energy, I can handle more. And then the second step is go in and learn how to regulate the system. And if you do that, like, oh my God, I double the amount of energy I have. So I'm performant now. I don't have energy to go in and reprogram myself. So I put less of this abundant energy into fear and less into hunger and less into things like lust. And I put them into things that charge me and build my company, build my mission, build my family. And that's why in the arc of my books, my first book was a fertility book. Because, you know, having a really healthy mom is a great advantage in life. So let's get that out of the way. Then how do I eat? Top my energy back? It's a bulletproof diet. Then how do I make my brain work? That's headstrong, right? And then how do I make myself live much longer? Because anyone who starts biohacking wants longevity. And I've been in longevity for 25 years. But then how do I become happy? How does that work? And that's what heavily meditate's about. How do you build those skills? They're the hardest ones, the ones I spent the most time on. And all the time I'm learning hardcore biohacking and neuroscience and measuring heart rate and looking at all the variables and measuring myself in absurd ways. At the same time, I was spending time with spiritual gurus, learning the other side of things. And that's what heavily meditated is. What are the steps in order you can do to not be triggered by anything? And if you do that, you'll tell the world's best story. You'll build a company. And when something comes along that feels like a threat, you do not lose sleep and you do not lose your mission and you do not lose your mind. And you know, I like to think I'm there. Maybe something can unsee me, but even if it does, I have people around me who know this about me, who are part of my spiritual team as well as my work team. And they will call me if I'm acting out of integrity from what I just said. And if you build that in your culture, in your family, in your spouse, in your religious support or your spiritual support, in your best friends, in your community, it makes a lot easier to hold the line. And that's why I build my life the way I do today.

You just reminded me when earlier when you were sharing your story and the different pieces of wisdom that came out around that venture capital and agreements and lawyers and all the rest of it. One that I didn't name was culture. And you mentioned culture back then and the importance and that you quickly remove people from the culture that had that contempt for the culture, the contempt for the company or leadership or yourself. And so you just reinforce the importance of culture again. And you also answered what my next question was already. Because my next question was, you know, for founders, the relevance and the importance of embracing biohacking at some level. So I think your successful founder CEO today is going to embrace biohacking at some level to optimize their own energy. They're going to optimize, they're going to embrace some form of meditation and self regulation and body mind work to be able to self regulate at an optimal level. And we have a lot of research going way back, really even Daniel Goldman's work around emotional intelligence, that what really separates great leaders from ordinary leaders is emotional intelligence. Well, how do you develop more emotional intelligence? You develop more emotional intelligence by having the energy to do so by being embodied by self regulating, which leads to our capacity for empathic connection and co effective co regulation and all the rest of it.

Know that you got a question for me. But you said a word that entrepreneurs don't use. It's co regulation. This is a word that child development experts will use if they're teaching and parenting. And it's a word that a few therapists might use if they're really on the ball. And having interviewed Stan Grof who was the founder of the transpersonal psychology movement and done work with Heartmath and all, the idea of co regulation is that if your nervous system is so regulated and so powerful, you have to have both. You have to have power and order. When someone is losing their mind or they're losing their emotions, they're being reactive. Just by holding that energy, you can cause their body to line up with yours and they will come out of that state. And the unspoken truth is that if you are the top woman in your company and you're a female entrepreneur, everyone with mommy issues will map them onto you. And if you're the top male in your company, everyone with daddy issues will map them onto you. And to make it even more complex, people who are really good employees and are normally totally fine, something will happen in their personal life or they get a flu or whatever and they're at A state of low energy. So their regulatory systems fail and they start acting like children. The way they acted with their dad and like, what happened to this person? Are they crazy now? They lost their regulation state. And if you have that strong thing and you can just do it, even though what they said might have pissed you off, gotta work through that. If you can just do that, there's a great chance that they will co regulate and the culture will support that and bring them back in instead of them spinning off and going nuts. And if someone does spin off and just act out of integrity, it's the culture's job to catch them and expel them. It's like a group of fish, they're all swimming in a direction and if one fish kind of goes a little bit sideways, the other one's help it back in, right? And if one fish just darts off sideways like, well, I guess that one's not in the school anymore. Right. And so that's a healthy culture when it brings gently, it brings people back and we're all moving towards the goal and it allows people who are just tangential to get the heck out and to do it quickly. And if a shark eats those ones, that's okay.

You can really just define really healthy culture as kind of a self sustaining collective co regulation. And it's a very powerful force. This is really what we teach at heart, mind. And what we're hoping to bring into the entrepreneurial world is experiences that develop our own confidence in our own innate goodness and the innate goodness of others, which doesn't mean they're always behaving in that way, but on some ultimate level. And then neuroscience, mindfulness, trauma, informed approaches to self regulation and co regulation. And that's what we hope to bring to the world to make it a better place. And also I think it's really important to get this into the world of entrepreneurship and business. It's really how we can take the journey you've taken and that all our aspiring and entrepreneur existing entrepreneurs are taking and end up also succeeding at life and as well as in business.

So I'll say you've attained great wisdom in your life. You know, we've talked on my show, we've talked multiple times. And you do very high level, meditative and energetic practice that comes from decades of experience in it. And the fact you're bringing this into business, I think this is the time that the world needs it. And there's been so much locked up knowledge in our different lineages. You do shamanic training with one tribe and they teach you this technique and you go to a part of China and they'll teach you this technique and you go to a different part of China. Like, oh, no, this is, you know, five elements. It's totally different. And you go to. And when you put enough of this together, you realize there's all these capabilities that humans have, and most of them we don't even know about because we haven't shared, because they didn't have the ability to, you know, trademark that or even the ability to file a patent on your meditation technique. So we would just hide them. And now they're coming out. And the reason they're coming out is if you're going to run a business in today's world, you need those techniques. And for humans to get the next level as a culture, as a society, as a species, it's time for an upgrade. And the upgrade is energetic, it's cultural, and it's biological in that we have to have well functioning bodies, which means we're going to clean up the environment and we're going to learn how to eat. And if we do all of those things, I think we can make this an incredible golden age of just like happy people doing things that they're meant to do. And if we don't understand that that's how it works, our businesses will fail. So kudos to you for all the deep work you've done on understanding all of the different unusual knowledge and taking the risk to bring it into business, which is not always easy.

Thank you very much for that and you certainly been an exemplar in that area. We're kind of near the end of our time, unfortunately, because there's so many different rabbit holes. I'd love to go down with you even further. And this has been incredibly illuminating. Dave, where can people find out more about your work? And I also think there was a specific gift you wanted to offer to our audience.

Yeah. My new book is called Heavily Meditated. And this is the book for entrepreneurs who want to learn the things we just talked about, because there's a very specific set of steps you do to turn off triggers that free up so much energy. And this is something that has cost me more than $10 million to develop with computers and electrodes on my head. And I want to teach that to you. So I will give you a free mini course. It is written down in the book and I teach all the background stuff you need, so you should get heavily meditated. But in the meantime, if you go to daveasprey.com heavilymeditated, all Gap.

Wonderful. Anywhere else people should be going to find out more about your work. I know. You know, I meant to talk about the whole world of content marketing, before which you've been an exemplar of. You learn how to tell stories and of course you have a podcast and you have a blog, you have bestselling books. So you're getting out there as a thought leader through that. And where is there one website where people can kind of then find out all about your work?

If you go to daveasprey.com there's 3000 blog posts, there's 1250 interviews with masters, all free. Eight or nine books and a whole bunch of other stuff that's there for you. All the different brands I work with that are there, that make things you can't buy anywhere else because they're worth it. And that's what I do.

Wonderful. Thank you so much. Dave Asprey, renowned as the creator and father of the biohacking movement and functional coffee and so forth. So thank you so much.

My pleasure.

Thank you for joining me on the Radical Responsibility podcast. Remember, real change happens when we commit to our growth, face our challenges with compassion, and stay open to transformation. If you found this episode helpful, I encourage you to subscribe and help us spread the message of healing and personal empowerment. Stay grounded, stay present, and stay true to you. Take care.