EP 125: Awake in the Wild | Mark Coleman

Welcome to Radical Responsibility, the podcast dedicated to ridding the world of blame and shame, where we explore the issues you care about from a unique perspective. 100% ownership for each and every circumstance we face in life, day in and day out. Hi. Welcome to the Radical Responsibility Podcast. I'm your host, Fleet Maul, and I'm really thrilled to share with you today a conversation with a close friend and colleague of mine. I'm Mark Coleman, founder of Awake in the Wild. Mark is a longtime meditator and senior meditation teacher and he loves the outdoors and he leads mindfulness based trainings in the outdoors, taking people out into nature, mostly out in California where he lives. He lives up in Marin county, but he takes people out in nature in lots of areas of California and doing wilderness work and so forth, and uses the context and the environment of nature to help people discover the depths of their being and really learn about themselves and reconnect with themselves and the natural world and with each other. So I don't know of anyone who better integrates mindfulness meditation and this kind of wilderness work and kind of natural living work than my friend Mark Coleman. He leads his own mindfulness teacher training programs. We've been colleagues for a long time and I had a lot of fun with this conversation.

I'm here today with Mark Coleman. Welcome, Mark. Hi. Thanks.

Sleep. Good to be with you.

Great to see you again. And I'm going to tell our audience a little bit about you and your background and then we'll jump right into the conversation. Sound good? Great. Okay. So Mark Coleman is a senior meditation teacher at Spirit Rock Meditation center which is in Marin county in California. He's taught there since 2000. He has taught mindfulness workshops and retreats on six continents over the past 20 years, builds an MA in clinical psychology and draws upon his extensive experience in working with people as both a therapist and a coach. Through the Mindfulness Training Institute, Mark leads a mindfulness professional mindfulness teacher training in the US and the uk and we, we are colleagues in that matter of training mindfulness teachers. So really important work. Mark is an unabashed nature lover and through his organization Awaken the World, he shares his passion for integrating meditation and nature. He leads wilderness meditation retreats from Alaska to Peru, taking people on inner and outer powder or outdoor adventures. Through Awake in the Wild, Mark also leads year long meditation in nature teacher trainings here in the US Mark is the author of From Suffering to the True Promise of Mindfulness. Make peace with your mind. How mindfulness and compassion can help free you from The Inner Critic and your most recent book, Awake in the Wild. Mindfulness in Nature as a Path of Self Discovery. And Mark lives in Marin county and you're an avid outdoorsman, bicycling, kayaking, and lots of other activities.

Yep.

So this day on our summit is focused on simplicity and earth friendly living. So that's what we're going to explore here today. And so let's start with simplicity. You know, some may associate simplicity with kind of the decluttering movement and there's, there's a kind of minimalist movement and you know, the back to the land kind of thing. But it could also just be, you know, generally simplifying our life or having our lives be less complex. There seems to be a natural association between simplicity and mindfulness. I wonder if you might explore that. Yeah.

So for me, when I think about simplicity, I do look through the lens of.

Both my Buddhist training, my mindfulness practice, my time in nature, and one of the things I think about, there's different layers to simplicity, as I'm sure you're exploring on the summit. I think of how mindfulness helps is it helps create a sense of inner simplicity so we can simplify our environment. Decluttering and all of that, which is all well and good, but really most of the clutter is in our head, is in our mind, is in our thoughts, in our views, in our reactions.

So much stress gets caused by the clutter and the chatter of the mind. And so where mindfulness helps is one in recognizing that, recognizing that we do live mostly in clutter, in chatter, in confusion, in sometimes overwhelm distraction. And it helps then from that perception, then helps both find ways to declutter the mind. Decluttering the mind, which could look something like letting go of thoughts, letting go of habitual mental tendencies and habits that don't serve us. It could be decluttering the mind from projection or from catastrophizing about the imagined future, or getting lost and ruminating in the past. There's many ways that our lives, and especially in the pandemic, our lives can be quite simple. We're not doing that much, but they can feel very full and complex with our mind and our stress and our worries and our stories and projections. So I'd say the decluttering of the mind is really helpful to create a sense of inner simplicity. And then from there the outer simplicity follows more easefully.

Well, I think that's really important because we all know we can generate a very cluttered mind all by ourselves. And now with the 24, 7 news cycle and all the craziness that's going on in our world, it's hard not to. And, and I think that's one of the real benefits of having a way of working with our mind, which is what mindfulness practice is. And yeah, I see that direct, that direct connection there just as a nod to the decluttering movement. I think there can be a relationship between our environment and our state of mind. And I think a lot of meditation centers and retreat centers, the classic Zen monastery, are very decluttered environments, usually good support. But having said that, you know, great yogis have learned to practice and tame their minds in the midst of chaos and confusion throughout history. So, so I guess there's, if we can take different strategies and decluttering inside and outside are probably both good things to do. So, you know, the theme of today's summit, simplicity and earth friendly living, implies there's a connection between the two. And I'm curious about how you see that with your, you know, you do a lot of wilderness work with your work awake in the wild. And I'm just curious as how you see the connection between those two.

Yeah, yeah, well, I think, you know, I do spend a lot of time outside, both personally and also in my work and my teaching and my retreats. And I think one of the things that having contact with nature does is it makes us realize how little we need to be happy. There's a certain kind of contentment and ease and joy and satisfaction and well being that comes just when we might step out into our garden, a walk around a local park or go out into the woods or a long walk on the beach and we kind of sense into, we can feel more connected. We start to feel a sense of spaciousness or well being and all the clutter in our lives that we were just talking about, busyness to do, list plans, worries, a lot of that starts to quieten down and we just get more present and connected with whatever's happening, the clouds, the birdsong, whatever. And so I think that's really key that the well being that most people feel with any kind of contact with nature. So sunrise, morning, bird song, beautiful trees in the fall, whatever, snowshoeing in winter.

It allows us to connect with a sense of contentment and simplicity.

And I think that's also just like mindfulness is a support for decluttering the mind and then decluttering one's space, nature. And that bringing a contemplative awareness to nature helps us.

Access a sense of wholeness, goodness. Well, being.

And orient us to simplicity. We look at so many great metaphors in nature, like birds or whatever, who have very simple but very full lives. And we spend our lives thinking, cluttering our lives with stuff and projects and things in the pursuit of happiness when actually that happiness is already healed, already within us.

Yeah, very well said. You know, I think there's an interesting parallel.

You've been on a lot of meditation retreats, as I have, and I'm sure you've done solitary retreats as well. And you know, when you're in the retreat, several days into retreat, you know, things get really simple and that kind of inner contentment can arise. But not that you don't go through struggles but, but things just fall away. Like, you know, for me, I know if I have a tendency towards snacking or something that falls away. I mean, you just don't need much. It just things get really simple and you realize you really need very little. And I think we have the same experience out in the natural world. We have that same experience both whether we go into retreat and to our practice or we get out and have the support of the beauty of the natural world. They both seem to lead us into that natural simplicity and inner contentment.

Yes, like when you go camping and you realize, oh, obviously we need shelter, we need warmth, we need a little bit of food, we need water and it's nice to have some social contact and that's about it. And that's enough to provide that sense of well being. And all the other stuff can be interesting and fun at times, but not necessarily essential to what really brings a sense of well being.

Well, I'm glad you brought up this notion of contentment, which is for me is an inner thing. We're not talking about being contented with the way things are in the world. We're not talking about apathy, we're just talking about kind of an inner contentment that maybe our needs are a little simpler. And you know, it's the lack of contentment, you could say, and this pursuit of this kind of misguided pursuit of happiness that's really putting huge pressure on the environment today. I mean, population has a lot to do with it, but given the huge global population we have and with the majority of those people striving after happiness through, you know, cluttering up themselves in the world with more stuff, obviously that's put us into this, this environmental, this climate change crisis. And so, you know, maybe that's one of the real connecting points here between simplicity and earth friendly living. Is developing a kind of inner contentment so we. So we can step back a bit from this drive to consume, this consumerist tendency that we're continually marketed into.

Yeah, no, definitely. I think.

We have to go deeper than there's external fixes to, whether it's the climate crisis or habitat depletion or toxicity in waterways and whatnot. But as you said, we have to look at what's driving that. What's driving that is this hunger, this need, this longing, this emptiness that is fueled by consumer culture that is telling us that happiness is external, it's in things, it's in status, it's in wealth. And unless we bring attention to that inner driver that's really in all of us.

This sort of materialist machine is going to keep being fueled. And so we have to look at that. And that's where mindfulness practice can help. That's where being in nature can help.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, clearly we do need some new technologies. We need to change our habits, we need legislative change. Hopefully we'll see some of that with the new administration. But I think what you're pointing to is the inner aspect of this is it's just critically important because if we don't change kind of who we are and how we're being, if we don't change our mindset about all this, it's maybe somewhat like moving deck chairs around on the Titanic. We really need to rethink what's important in our lives and what does give our lives meaning. So it might be a change of mindset or even a change of. Of heart set. You know, it's like our incredible cognitive capacities as human beings. We're incredibly creative, and that's an amazing part of who we are as beings. And yet it's somewhat. It becomes somewhat untethered from, From. From the body, from the heart, and from the earth, and thus become destructive. So I'm wondering if you could talk about how your awakened the world work, perhaps how you see people kind of.

Reconnect with the body, the heart, and with the earth in ways that might lead to that interchange that we need collectively. Individually and collectively?

Yeah. Well, you know, it happens on many levels. I think what happens when we go outside or we go on retreat or especially do a retreat in nature.

The first thing I think we encounter. Well, a couple of things. One is how out of touch with ourselves we are, how out of touch with our bodies, how busy our mind is, how restless we are, how exhausted we are from all this busyness and doing.

And then we come Into a natural environment that's not caught up in busyness and stress in the same way that we are. The environment might be stressed like the trees with the climate, with drought.

But there's a particular way that humans get caught up mentally, emotionally, psychologically. And so we kind of confront that juxtaposition of how disconnected, unpresent, how agitated we are compared to the environment we're in. And so what can happen over time is that we start to slow down. We start to have other things to attend to other than our busy mind. We start to open up our senses that often get diminished indoors. The sense of smell opens up, the sense of proprioception of our body in space, the sense of spaciousness, the sense of perspective that we have once we get outside of four walls.

So that all starts to open up. And then.

We start to also feel less separate. One of the sort of social ills of our time and the pandemic has reinforced this, is feeling isolated, separate, disconnected. And when we go outside, our body is a sensory organism, and it feels at home or more tuned with the other sensory life all around us. Our four walls of our houses are somewhat artificial and do create a sense of isolation, separation. And so we start to feel both attuned to a living, breathing, connected world, but also that we're part of that living, breathing, connecting world. We're breathing in the oxygen released from the trees and we exhale carbon that gets reabsorbed by the plant life. And so that creates a sense of connection. And again, all these things like whether it's well, being, connection, ease.

Joy, that the heart starts to open up with the beauty and the color and the play of light and smell and animals. All those things support a sense of well being, which support a sense of contentment and a sense of simplicity. All the things that we've been speaking to.

Then that contentment is what allows us to live with ease and to.

It's like the decluttering happens and nature allows us to declutter all of that.

And most of that can happen by itself. You can just spend a day at the beach, especially if it's a nice quiet beach, or you go for a long walk in the woods, or you sit in the park all day, or you're just in your back garden and you're just gardening or tending, just sitting outside, looking at the sky and.

And that nature does a lot of the work. And the thing that I emphasize in my work is that.

We can sort of increase and exacerbate.

The positive benefits of being in Nature. When we bring a contemplative awareness, when we can be aware, when we can be present, when we learn how to unhook from our busy mind and come into our body and our senses, then we can actually receive the goodness and the joy and the blessings of the nature. And then that's where the work happens.

What brings to mind, really, that the tragedy really is so many young people growing up in urban centers here in the US and around the world have so little access to the natural world. They just grow up in these concrete asphalt places.

The impact that has. Earlier I made the connection between.

The natural kind of simplicity, contentment, and decluttering that happens in a meditation retreat and. And then the experience of going out into nature. And I was thinking, you know, traditionally, for thousands of years, yogis, great meditators, would actually go out, meditate in the wild. They lived in the wild. They would go out and live in the natural world. It was kind of later that they started moving into ashrams and monasteries and, you know, Zen centers and so forth. But it was very common that they lived out in the natural world. So I guess they. They benefited from both the practice and the support of the natural world in that way.

Right, Right. Very much so. I think what I see in my work with the Awake in the Wild work is really returning to those original sources, where it's true in every spiritual tradition, across cultures, across millennia, people have gone to the outdoors, to the jungle, mountains, forests, lakes, desert, to find that solace, that simplicity, that quietness, that spaciousness, because it's a natural support for presence, for, well being, for peace, for joy, and it's the things that we're hungering for, but we're looking for them in the wrong places.

Yeah. So I would imagine your Awake in the Wild work takes you out into some fairly fragile ecosystems in wilderness areas. And there's. There's so much pressure. I mean, there just seems to be. I hate to say it, but there seems to be too many of us. And, you know, a lot of people want to get out in these wilderness areas. And I know there's some of you have to go into a lottery just to get. Get a chance to go into some of these wilderness areas because there's so much pressure on them. I'm curious about what you've seen and what you think we need to do to kind of preserve these last bastions of the untouched natural world.

Yeah, no, it's definitely an interesting paradox. I live down the road from a national park called Muir Woods. Beautiful redwoods Many of you, yeah. And you have to book ahead to get a parking spot to get in. And it's sort of ironic that you have to go online to reserve a ticket far in advance to go see some trees. But that's where we are. We're an overpopulated planet. And there is, especially with the pandemic, people have really gone to nature. And I'm very happy. I see the crowds where I live in Marin County. There's people flocking here to get a taste of the woods and the ocean. And it makes me happy that people are seeing nature as a refuge and as a support and as a sense of nourishment. And as you say, it's having its impact. As the wilderness areas, fragile ecosystems are being at times damaged. Causa has to be managed, you know, balancing the people's need and also protecting the very things that people want to.

Go experience. And so I think that's, you know, I think as individuals, we have to be responsible about how we relate, you know, how we are in those environments, you know, respecting the pathways and the leave no trace kind of policy. And at the same time, we also need to be, you know, as a.

Protective without being exclusive.

So we can actually preserve these places of natural wonder for future generations.

But underneath all of that, I think what's more important to me is I'm just happy that people are going out into nature. As, you know, Richard Louvre's work on Nature Deficit Disorder. And this whole generation of kids we're raising spend more time on technology than anything else. And it's essential that we, as adults and kids, we get outside to both feel the.

Pleasure of the natural world. But also, there's a phrase, we protect what we love. If we don't have experience with something, we aren't able to fall in love with it. And it's the love that's going to support us to protect these, the Earth. And so I'm happy that people are getting outside because that means that that will lead to people caring more about the Earth and wanting to steward and protect it.

Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, we don't need Muir woods to go out and experience nature. As you said, we can get out in our garden, in the backyard and so forth, if we're privileged enough to have a backyard. But Muir woods is an interesting example. You park there and you enter, and it's like you're entering one of the great cathedrals of Europe or something. And if you have conversations, they're whispered. You know, it's just like such a. Such A incredibly powerful place. So fortunately, you know, along with this ongoing wave of consumerism, and I don't mean to demonize the fact that we're creative as human beings, we've been able to create technologies and ways to live in more comfortable ways and so forth. And there's something that's natural and inevitable about all this, but we have kind of gotten carried away with consumerism, to say the least. But along with that, there is a growing movement of minimalism, kind of green living, even back to the land movements and things like that that have been going on for a while. And in some cases they're picking up steam and this whole idea of creating local networks to be more sustainable locally and so forth. And I'm curious as what you think about where we're going with all this. It seems like we are going to need some technologies to.

Help us have this many people live on the planet in a way that's going to be sustainable and to at least not see the worst of the climate emergency and turn it around. And obviously we really need this mind shift and a change in how we're living. But I'm wondering how you see that landscape in terms of.

What the key thing where we need to focus, because I think a lot of us are just really concerned and even scared about what science is telling us about the climate emergence we're in, which could, you know.

This planet could be. The planet will survive, but there's a question whether humanity will survive more than another generation or two.

Yeah, no, it's definitely urgent. It's definitely.

Climate emergency and also an ecological emergency because species loss and habitat loss is just as urgent as climate crisis. And I think it's a complex problem that requires complex solutions and.

There'S no one fixed. It's a multiple of solutions, from the personal to the collective to corporate responsibility to government intervention. But I do think we've had environmental movement for 50 years. There was a lot of focus on that in the first maybe three decades of individual responsibility. But also doing some work at the state and national level in terms of policy and Clean Air Act, Clean Water act, et cetera. I do think that clearly there's a place for technology. We need to massively scale some of the technological solutions, whether it's solar energy or wind power, turbines, or all the different ways that we can wean ourselves off of fossil fuel as quickly as possible.

But I'm aware that because of the immensity of the problem. Well, two things. One, it has to.

Governments have to systematically legislate and regulate to radically shift us from a carbon based economy in the next 15 years. I mean it has to be radical. And only corporations are moving slowly because of public opinion, but they won't move quick enough. And governments can move quick enough if they realize the reality and they realize the will of the people. And most people agree that we need radical change. But then I also think this technological solution that governments can help support.

And fund. And then there's the work on the ground as you mentioned, whether it's permaculture and sustainable farming. And there's very simple things that can have radical influence if people are both educated and encouraged.

To, for example, develop sustainable farming practices where there can be an in radical sequestration of carbon. If farmers worldwide just simply would use a layer of manure as topsoil and to restore topsoil and things like that. So I think it's going to be.

A multiple approach of solutions from local to global. And but I think because of the speed of change that we need, it has to have.

Both bodies like the UN and national governments and the G20 and whatnot finally coming to the table and having a very, very radical timeline of at least shifting to a carbon free or carbon reduced economy.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what we can all do is we can all advocate with our legislatures, everyone we can. I mean we have emphasized the personal response and a lot of us have become, you know, greener and you know, make our do our best to recycle all the rest of it, but that's not really going to get us there. It's important, but it's going to take legislative change. I actually saw a documentary recently that gave me hope because it was pointing to what you were talking about, about renewing the topsoil. And it's talking about if we don't change the way we're farming, if we don't change the agribusiness, industrial farming that's going on, the earth's topsoil is going to disappear. It's disappearing quickly. But if we would turn that around, it pointed to if we would renew the topsoil around the world steadily and significantly combined with getting off the carbon economy. Those two things could actually turn global warming around within a reasonable period of time. And I wasn't aware of that, of how much carbon can be sequestered in the topsoil.

A phenomenal amount. I think it's like 50% could be sequestered.

Yeah, it's amazing. It's really amazing. So those are things we can all advocate for getting off the, you know, the carbon economy and the fossil fuel economy and then, and then sustainable farming methods. I mean, those are, those are probably the two most powerful things that could leverage preventing the worst of climate change. Yeah. Wow. Well, we have a lot to do. And I'm curious for you, your work, how, you know.

In terms of, we're talking about a change in mindset or heartset or really a change in consciousness, individually and collectively. So I'm curious as to how the combination of your path with mindfulness and getting out into nature as much as you do, being a lover of the natural world and then, you know, bringing others into the natural world with your awake in the wild programs, how that has influenced or shifted your consciousness over the years in terms of the Earth and our need to do a vastly better job of stewarding this Earth and our relationship with our first mother of the Earth.

Yeah, well, you know, radically changed. I came to the U.S. i'm originally from England. I came to the U.S. in the early 90s and fell in love with the wilderness, fell in love with the vastness of the, the landscapes here that are untouched and beautiful and powerful, and.

Became aware of.

Just the vast beauty that is this earth prior to humans doing whatever we do to it, not always destroying it, but often. And as I've spent more and more time outside, both my own practice and teaching.

Come to realize both my profound love and connection with nature, but also how important it is that we get outside. Like, we can talk about it, we can study it, we can analyze it, but if we don't actually get outside, and I work with activists who do amazing work for the Earth, but so busy in Washington lobbying, they don't actually get outside and get burnt out.

And our kids losing touch with that connection with nature. And so it's essential that for me, what's so important is getting outside and getting outside of our sort of human centric, anthropocentric worldview and experience.

Because we get so easily lost and consumed in that. And it's a very narrow lens. And when we go outside, we step into such a bright, broader swathe of time, of history, of diversity of.

Color.

And just the range of beauty. And.

I think it's essential for our health and well being. It's essential to connect us with what's really important. It connects us with what we need to do to advocate for the Earth. And that phrase that I mentioned earlier, we protect what we love. I think that's what's really woken up in me, is that the more deeply I fall in love with the Earth, the more that's kindled a love and desire to protect and to steward. And my particular sort of piece in that, which is small, like anyone's, is my mission is to focus on that work, the awake in the wild work that encourages people to get outside with that contemplative awareness, to deepen that connection, that love, the resource, the nourishment, and as a support for them becoming better advocates for the Earth. And so.

Personally, I'm sort of in that, still living that process of the more I'm outside, the more I'm informed by nature and feeling my nature as nature, the more I want to be an advocate and a steward for the Earth.

This is the best year of your life Summit. We've been through quite a year. Last year in 2020, just off the charts. All the challenges we face with the pandemic, which we're still in, and our individual and collective reckoning with race and all the social unrest that's gone along with that and the divisive politics, and now 2021 is off to a pretty crazy start with this insurrection in Washington. And.

It does seem like we see kind of a light at the end of the tunnel for the pandemic, but it's going to be with us for a while. But I'm wondering how you've been working with all that and how you might envision 2021 being the best year of your life or how you might create it as the best year of your life. Just that sense of moving forward in your life in a sense of possibility and not just kind of being back in survival mode, which is an easy place to get to, given all that's going on.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, I think following on from what we've been talking about.

2021, at least in the US has gotten off to a very painful, difficult start. And it doesn't necessarily look like it's going to be improving anytime soon.

But.

Again, for me.

That can fully absorb all of our attention, or we can also take a bigger view, whether it's historical view or global view. And for me, as I was speaking about this morning on my teacher this morning sunrise practice.

That when we go outside, when we.

Feel into the magnitude of the Earth and its capacity.

Helps me get a different sense of perspective. So in terms of the question, the best year of your life? For me, my intention this year is to maybe sound ironic, given what I've just been saying, but to spend more time outside. Actually, I'm looking for land right now to Grow and develop this world.

Work.

My nature based awake in the wild work. And so for me a metric of success is more time outside. Whether that's me just being outside, working outside, teaching outside, I take my laptop outside, sit by a tree. And because I find being outside brings such a sense of resource and refuge and nourishment and well being that the more I'm outside.

The happier I am and the better I can do my work with people. So my ultimate goal would be to, as I say, find some land where I can really live this work 365 days a year. So that's my intention. It's going to start looking this weekend and wish me luck.

Indeed. That's really exciting. Quite an exciting vision. We had a conversation similar to this for the Global Resilience Summit. You tried to do it outside with your laptop and unfortunately the WI fi connection wasn't, wasn't, wasn't cooperating. I don't know if you remember that, but unfortunately you had to go inside. But I could see you were all set up ready to go outside and I could see the joy on your face and I thought, oh, this is going to be great. We're going to have a conversation about this with you actually out in your beautiful backyard. You did mention your sunrise practice. Could you just say a little bit about that? I remember that from our previous conversations that you have this morning, kind of ceremony or practice you do of getting up and being outright.

Yeah. So ever since the pandemic started, I as a teacher wondered what I could do because everybody's now sheltering in place. And so.

I started a week of offering meditation teachings in the morning. It was sunrise. It was March when the pandemic started here and the lockdown. And so I started offering a morning meditation. When we watched the sunrise, I'd give the guided meditation practices and then it extended for another week and then a month. And then all of a sudden it's now, I think I'm 10 months into offering a daily meditation practice. So we meet now at 7:30am.

And I do a guided nature based mindfulness meditation practice. And people tune in from all over the world even though it's 7:30am California time. And it's been a beautiful thing to create this community of people who also like sitting outside. Some people don't sit outside snowing, it's raining, whatever. But it's a way of creating community in this time when we're feeling very disconnected. And also, again, I'm just helping people orient to the nature around them. There's such a support of nourishment and support and connection in the time of disconnection. So people can go to my website, markcolman.org, and they can register for that if they want. It's offered freely and yeah, it's offered seven days a week now.

Great, Great. I was going to ask you how can people find it? So markcolman.org yeah, right. Great, great. So I just want to mention your book again and really encourage people to check it out. Awaken the wild mindfulness in nature as a path of self discovery. And thank you so much for being with us today. It's been a really rich conversation and it just to me, it's one of the most important conversations we can have about how to kind of write our relationship with our first mother of the earth. And so a lot to chew on here. Thank you very much.

Great. Thanks Fleet. Good to be with you.

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