EP 148: Shifting to a Purpose Outside of Ourselves | Lynn Twist

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Hi. Welcome to the Radical Responsibility podcast. This is your host, Fleet Moll. And today I'm having a conversation with the legendary Lynn Twist, author of the Soul of Money. Lyn has been incredibly dedicated for more than four decades to alleviating world poverty and to transforming our relationship to the whole flow of resources, money, generosity, and so forth. And we really had a very empowering conversation that personally gave me a lot of hope about our ability to face and really solve some of the incredible challenges that we face globally today. So give it a listen. Lynne Twist is amazing.

Welcome, Lynn.

Thank you. It's wonderful to see you and be on this wonderful summit. And thank you for inviting me and including me.

Well, we're really excited to have you. We've actually wanted to get you on this summit from the very beginning. So we're really excited that you can be part of this year's summit. So I'm going to share with our audience a bit of your bio and background and then we'll get started. Okay?

Sure. Perfect.

Right, so Lynn Twits is a global activist, author and teacher who has devoted her life to sustainability and economic integrity. She is an original staff member of the Hunger Project and has worked with luminaries such as Mother Teresa. Lynn is the co founder of the Pachamama alliance, which empowers indigenous people of the Amazon rainforest to preserve their lands and culture. She also serves as strategic fundraising consultant to the Nobel Women's Initiative. Lynn Twist has spent the last 40 years dedicating herself to alleviating poverty and hunger and supporting social justice and environmental sustainability. She is the founder of the Soul of Money Institute and has worked with over 100,000 people in 50 countries. She's the author of the best selling book the Soul of Transforming youg Relationship with Money and Life and her newest book, Living a Committed Finding Freedom and Fulfillment in a Purpose Larger Than Yourself. Lynn has been a featured speaker for the United Nations Beijing Women's Conference, State of the World Forum and Synthesis Dialogues with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, among others. Lin is recipient of the prestigious Women of Distinction Award from the United Nations.

So obviously from that a very stellar career, but that really doesn't even begin to do your accomplishments justice. And I'm very familiar with your work and we could talk a lot, even just about the Pachamam all Which, if I'm not mistaken, one of the real. What seems to me like when I first heard about a real breakthrough there, that you were able to help the people of Ecuador actually write.

Give the rainforest rights in their constitution. Is that correct?

Yes, yes. It's called the Rights of Nature. And in. In Ecuador, the nature itself now has fundamental human rights, like we do in court. So river systems, forest system, lakes can be defended in court. And it's a legal breakthrough, not only in Ecuador. There's now a global movement called the Global alliance for the Rights of Nature. And it turns property law on its head so that we realize that we can prevent the destruction of an ecosystem rather than sue after the whole ecosystem is gone. And it's a very powerful new initiative, really, all over the world now.

Well, that's absolutely wonderful. Even that would be one life's accomplishment for sure. Fabulous. Okay, well, let's get started. So, Lyn, the breadth and scope of your work is vast and ranges from working with Mother Teresa in Calcutta to working with refugees and camps in Ethiopia and the threatened rainforests of the Amazon, as well as guiding the philanthropy of some of the world's wealthiest families. Tell us a bit about your pathway into this work and how you became dedicated to. To global initiatives that serve humanity and the planet.

Well, you know, there's. There's always some wisdom when you look backwards at your life, and in retrospect, but it didn't. It wasn't as orderly as it all sounds in your wonderful bio. But when I think. When I. How I see it in some ways is I was in the right place at the right time, paying attention when Buckminster Fuller, who was. Who lived in the 20th century and was in his 80s when I met him, when I realized that Buckminster Fuller was a human being who committed his life to making a difference. And that phrase, making a difference with your life comes from him that we now use. You know, it's part of the lexicon. But no one said it quite that way until Bucky said it when he was alive. And Buckminster Fuller dedicated his entire life to see if one ordinary human being could make a difference that would impact all humanity. And he actually did do that. He invented the geodesic dome. He invented electric car in 1949, seeing the end of the fossil fuel industry. He was often called the grandfather of the future. And he had a huge impact on the lives of millions and millions of people. And I was one of them. And Bucky was.

Just like a grandpa kind of guy. Just loved life, loved the Intellectual integrity of the universe, loved people, loved humanity. And I was attracted to his love. I didn't really understand a lot of what he was talking about, but I was so attracted to him as a human being. And I wanted him and Werner Erhart, who was the founder of ast, who was an important teacher for me. I wanted the two of them to meet. And with a friend named Ron Lansmand, we orchestrated them to meet with each other. And once they did, these two extraordinary, amazing human beings. This took place in 1976, 1977. A kind of series of miracles were born out of their conversations and out of their relationship. And one of them was the Hunger Project. So the Hunger Project was the beginning of my global awareness. I became very, very deeply engaged in the Hunger Project and as one of the first staff members, and learned from on the ground experience what it takes to.

Confront, even address, a global issue.

That seems intractable. But because we think it's intractable, it stays intractable until we commit to eradicating it, to ending it, to putting it behind us. And so the Hunger Project.

Entered many millions of people into a new consciousness about hunger. That it could be ended, that it's not something we could just alleviate the suffering, which is a beautiful thing to do, or make a little less severe, which is a beautiful thing to do, but that we could actually eradicate it. And when you work on something to end it, you work on it in a very different way.

It comes from the kind of work that you're doing on this summit, which is making a very powerful, unshakable commitment. That's a purpose larger than your own life. And when you make a commitment to a purpose, a vision larger than your own life starring you, it reaches back into your life and makes you into. Shapes you into the kind of person who can fulfill that commitment. So the commitment serves you. That's not why you do it. But if that is why you do it, then it doesn't quite work this way. But when. And I know this is what you've done, Fleet, so I know I'm speaking to the choir here, particularly to you, but I think people don't know that they don't have to be all turned out and smart and all together to make a big commitment. Making a big commitment reaches back into their life and makes them who they need to be to fulfill it. And that's what happened to me. So my work with the Hunger Project shaped me into a global leader, shaped me into someone who could.

Address what I most people think are intractable problems. Gave me the courage, the depth, the spiritual grounding, really, to be in the presence of tremendous suffering and know that I could not only make an impact about it, but in many cases, absolutely alleviate, eradicate, and end that kind of suffering. So that's a kind of philosophical answer to your question and a little bit about the story behind it.

Well, that's absolutely beautiful. And it really does describe the arc of this summit quite beautifully. And our day one begins with helping people get clear about what that might be for them. And as you were talking about, I was certainly resonating with it in terms of my own experience. And it's kind of doing a little, you know, reverse reflection right now, understanding some things about my own life. And the way to describe that, it's how powerful making that commitment is. Absolutely.

So one of the things that, you know, you've been communicating and it has been inspirational, is.

Making a fundamental shift in consciousness. And I think, you know, things like ending hunger and, you know, all the other big things we need to tackle, to say nothing of climate change, you know, really require shift in consciousness. And part of the way you describe that shift in consciousness, I think, is a shift from that kind of you or I, you know, and zero sum thinking to you and you and I, you and me, you know, this, us. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the kind of shift in consciousness that we need and that you've been working for all these years.

Well, that also comes. Thank you for asking about that. That also comes from Buckminster Fuller, who I heard speak in 1976, and it blew my mind. And he established in that talk, 1976, a long, long time ago, he said, we have shifted. He said, we have crossed a very clear threshold. And he put his arm out in front of him like this, and he said, and we've crossed it. In 1976, he said this. And that threshold is this. We as a human family. He was talking about humanity, and he talked in huge swaths of time. And he said, humanity has crossed this threshold in its recent and in 1976, Buckminster Fuller usually meant when he spoke in the last 50 or 100 years, because that's the way he talked about things. But he said, this change, crossing this threshold changes everything and will have huge impact on humanity. And he said, this threshold is this. We now do so much more with so much less, that we now live in a world where there is enough for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. And he said, that may have always been true, but it's clearly true. Now, he also said this. Doing more with less is the direction, the trajectory of our science. It is the trajectory of our innovation. It is the clear trajectory of technology. We will marvel at how much more we can do with so much less in the future. And he said that changes everything, but not only the technology or the innovation or the science. It changes our relationship with the world. So rather than a world of scarcity where there's not enough for everyone and someone's always going to be left out, that's a scarcity paradigm. That's a you or me paradigm. Either you make it fleet at my expense, or I make it at your expense, because there's not enough for both of us. A you or me paradigm too. And then he put his arm out and put on his hand on the other side to a you and me paradigm where you and I can both make it at no one's expense. And he said, that's a huge, unbelievably fundamental transformation in our relationship with one another, in the integrity of the human family. Then he said, to realize that there are sufficient resources for everyone to make it enough for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. I often share that. I had a Kundalini, you know, kind of thing go up my spine when I heard this word, enough for everyone everywhere to make it.

I started to cry, my hands started to perspire. I had a very big physical reaction to what he was saying. I was sitting in an audience of 2,000. Nobody saw this, but it was huge in my body, in my core, in my soul, in my heart. And then he said something really important. He said, I'm not talking about.

An amount of anything. I'm talking about a way of being in the world, knowing and being with sufficiency, with enoughness, knowing that we're being met by the universe with exactly what we need. Sometimes it's a bankruptcy, sometimes it's a divorce, Sometimes it's not what we think we want, but it gives us exactly what we need to grow and develop into who we need to be as human beings. And I never forgot this. And then Bucky said something else that was really important. He said.

We will not realize this you and me paradigm for 50 years. This is 1976. He said, because all the institutions of humankind are rooted in a you or me understanding of the world, a scarcity mentality. He said, the economy is clearly designed, rooted, born in a scarcity mentality, a you or me understanding of the world. But also education is designed, is rooted in a You or me understanding of the world. Clearly, governance is rooted in a you or me understanding of the world. And then he went on to name almost every institution that he could think of. And then the final one he talked about was, he said, even religion is rooted in a you or me understanding of the world. He said it will take 50 years for all of these institutions that what we live inside of to become so dysfunctional that we can no longer repair them or prop them up. They will begin to disintegrate in front of our very eyes in about 50 years. And we will have to recreate everything from a new paradigm, a you and me understanding of the world, a world of sufficient resources, where everyone is taken care of. And that was in 1976. We're recording this in 2022. We're right around that time. And as you know very, very well, the institutions of humankind are dissolving around us. They're dysfunctional, they don't work, they're unsustainable, they're falling apart. And we can't prop them up any longer. And rather than try to do that, we need to let them go and recreate every institution from a you and me paradigm. And that was Bucky's prediction about this time in history. So that's a long answer for your question. But I became completely devoted in my life then to a you and me way of seeing the world, which I consider to be now the radical, surprising truth about life.

Beautiful. And Buckminster Fuller, known as Buck, he was incredibly prophetic. And you know, the acceleration, as he said, of being able to, you know, create such so much more with less, I mean, that's accelerated so much in the last 50 years. It's mind boggling, right? Probably, maybe even more than he imagined. And certainly our world is dissolving all around us. Our institutions are dissolving all around us. So, wow, Incredibly, incredibly prophetic. So how we could go a lot of. I really want to take some time for, on an individual level, for us to help understand this, this, this shift from scarcity thinking to another way of being. But just following up on your response there, you know, what's your sense of how do we.

Go from this current dissolution into reframing, remaking the world around you and me paradigm and consciousness, as opposed to letting it slip into some kind of chaos or some kind of dystopian future? Because the previous answers to these questions have generally led towards some kind of totalitarianism. And so how do we continue to balance the good things of the Enlightenment of basically liberal democracies and kind of individual freedom to a new balanced view on the collective. That can work because I don't know that we've ever really even imagined this yet, much less figured it out.

Well, that's a great question. I know we want to get to people's more personal lives, but I will say on the broad scale, I think we're in an evolutionary leap. I actually think we're. I would even call the pandemic morning sickness. For pregnant species that's being reborn and pregnancy and morning sickness is not pleasant. You feel sick every single morning. You're throwing up all the time. It's not a happy situation until you have a context for it, until you go to the doctor to find out what's wrong with you because you're certain you're sick. And then you find out you're pregnant and that changes everything. Then you're sort of excited to throw up in the morning. You kind of love to share about it. You let everybody know you're pregnant, that you need pickles and ice cream, that you take naps in the afternoon, that you need a place on the bus just to down. And life becomes all about giving new life. And I'd say even on the personal level, if we can hold that the chaos that we're living in now, the darkness, the divisiveness, the viciousness that we're seeing is almost like a death throes of a you or me. Either you win the election because you said worse things about me, then I win the election because I'm saying worse things about you. You know, that kind of vitriolic political landscape that we've been in the last few years really and probably for much longer than we would like, is an example of this inaccurate, inappropriate individuations. We're so individuated that we individuate at the expense of other people. We win at the expense of everybody else. We win by defeating, by marginalizing, by putting people down, by putting people in prison. You know that well and by. That's our mo, our modus operandi. And it so doesn't work. And everybody knows it doesn't work now. And it's almost in its death throes, in its ugliest, most vicious expression. But it's always darkest before the dawn. And I actually feel like if we realize that we're not sick like morning sickness, we're preparing to give a.

To give the last call for this kind of behavior and move into a new way of being, completely new way of being you know, and I know we should talk in the personal scale, but I. It's really helpful for me to look at that. This all is not happening to us. We're not the victims of it. It's happening for us that even the pandemic comes from the Earth. Climate change, climate crisis comes from the Earth. The Earth is giving us feedback. Big, powerful, undeniable feedback. We tried to deny it, we tried to ignore it. No, we can't ignore it now. It's feedback. It's not happening to us. It's happening for us because we're on a trajectory that's off and we know it. We haven't been able to disrupt it ourselves and change course. So we're getting the kind of intense, huge, unbelievably powerful feedback that we need to actually rethink, re. See, reimagine, redesign resource life itself and all the institutions that we have. We're hospicing the death of the old ones while we midwife the birth of the new ones. And it's a rough time. It's not going to be easy. You know, I've had some kids. Pregnancy is not easy. Giving birth hurts. It hurts. The pain pushes until the vision of having a baby pulls. So we're in a time of pain, pushing until vision pulls. And what we really need, which is your work, is to create a vision so powerful for our life, each one of us and for life, that it pulls us through the pain into the vision.

Well, that's a really beautiful and hopeful vision. And, you know, I've always been an optimist, and I think of myself as a realistic, not a naive optimist. But, you know, in recent years, and there are some, in some spiritual traditions, they talk about we're kind of slipping into dark ages, that kind of thing. I've never really been attracted to that. I'm kind of an optimist by nature. So I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to sign on for your vision there. And, you know, we do another summit called the Global Resilience Summit and interview a lot of Native American indigenous elders and wisdom holders for that summit. And all of them over the last few years have been saying that they see the pandemic has come as a gift and as a teacher for us and is the Earth, you know, wake up, call from the Earth and teaching us and so forth. So. So, absolutely. And it does seem very much so that we're in that process, so. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you named another theme of this summit Another theme of the best year of your life summit is really recognizing that life isn't something that's happening to us. Although it may feel that way at times, but it's really happening for us and with us. And that shift of mindset and consciousness can really change everything in terms of how we relate with our lives.

Exactly. Yeah. Our Native American friends in the Amazon have said the same thing. I'll just say the way they say it is so beautiful. They say in some primordial part of who we are as a human species, we've been longing, yearning and waiting for something sacred and powerful enough to disrupt the way we're living because we tried to do it ourselves and we're now so powerful as a species that we couldn't disrupt our path. And so the pandemic and climate crisis is doing that not to us, but for us. It's an ally, not a punishment, because we're just off course. There's nothing wrong with us. We're not bad, we're off course, we're mistaken, we're. We've lost our way.

Well, I'm so glad you said that. And that's another major, you know, contextual framework for this summit, that life is basically good, that we all have innate, unconditional primordial goodness. So we can imagine a future, we can dream big and we can do all that not from a place of not enoughness or there's something wrong with us, but just because it's natural for us as individuals and as humanity to grow and thrive. And that's what life does. It grows and thrives and goes through all the cycles. So I think it's so important because there are, in the face of all these challenges, there are many who want to point to whether something wrong with us. There's something funny, we're cancer on the planet, where I don't think that kind of thinking is helpful. It's certainly not. We're not going to get creative solutions coming out of having a, you know, if we have a really negative view of ourselves, what kind of communities and institutions are we going to create based on that? So I love that you said that. So let's explore this at the individual level. So, you know, a lot of us just grow up with almost, probably most of us to one degree or another grow up with some kind of scarcity mentality around money and finances and livelihood and all the rest of it resources. It seems to be that there's a scarcity and if I don't somehow get enough, somebody else will or and it seems hard and, and so, you know, either we kind of retreat into, you know, kind of a subsistence kind of way of being at whatever level that doesn't necessarily, I'm not talking about talking about being out on the land or homeless necessarily, but you know, we just, or you know, we really get out there and get degree going, try. If I just get enough and get powerful and big enough, you know, then, and so how do we begin to work with those fears and develop both the mindset of abundance, realizing that life is abundance and there is enough and whatever enough means. And I know you'll talk about that.

But also kind of tune into a notion of sufficiency so that at whatever level, at whatever scale we're operating in life, but you know, that we're not making an undue negative impact on the environment and on others. So, you know, how do we find our way into this different way of thinking and into that, whatever that sweet spot is for any of us at any point in our life?

Well, thank you. I, I, I know everybody struggles with this because we live, I just want to name that we live in a culture that promotes scarcity. So it's hard to extract yourself from scarcity thinking because the culture promotes scarcity thinking. All Matt, all advertising and marketing people, this is their expertise. You know, this, this, get it at this discount if you do it before midnight at 97, 99, and then it's going to be $5,000 or something. So it's not just that we live in a mindset of scarcity that's unconscious and unexamined. And the culture promotes, affirms, validates, strengthens kind of forces that mindset on us. So we think that we're not enough, we don't have enough, there isn't enough. There's not enough to go around. Somebody's going to be left out. So you need to scramble and get what you can for you and yours and then you'll help those people someday maybe, if you have way more than you need. But right now, even if you have to do it at their expense, it's kind of, it's kind of the thing to do. So that message is, you know, you wake up with it in the morning, you go to sleep with it at night, it's on television, it's on the Internet. It interrupts every single, you know, you try to read something from the New York Times and there's advertisements jammed into every other paragraph. So we are swimming in scarcity messages. Scarcity messages include there's not enough and More is better. More of anything and everything is better. So I call them the three toxic myths. Number one, the toxic myth, the lie. There's not enough. I call it a lie. Number two, more is better no matter what. I call that a lie. And number three, that's just the way that it is which holds the other lies in place. And I call them lies because they come from an unconscious, unexamined mindset. It's not like we look out in the world and decide there's not enough. No, we come from a there's not enough mentality and more is better no matter what. So people have, you know, 40,000 square feet in their house. No one needs that. It's just completely insane. Or people who are, you know, this enormous wealth that's being accumulated now by some people, by people that actually am working with now. So I know that the more, more, more, more, more game and even if it comes to billions, doesn't resolve problems, it's actually, in many ways, yes, eases some suffering to get to a certain point, but then beyond that, it's excessive, it's overconsumptive. It makes you literally crazy. The people with massive, massive wealth in most cases are not happy. They're miserable, crazy, frantic, scared to death that the stock market's going to go down and their children are in usually just terrible shape because they don't know who are their friends because they have the last name of somebody who's famous. You know, the whole thing really doesn't turn out to be a happy ending.

But what is appropriate is for us to recognize that the scarcity mindset does not serve us, that we can't come from lack of to get more. You'll try, yes, you'll come from lack, and you'll get more, but then you'll end up in lack again. The mindset produces that. And then you'll get a little bit more and there'll be a little bit of glee and happiness. And then suddenly you need more. And it's endless, endless, endless, endless. But if you actually start to pay attention to what I call the radical surprising truth, which is that you have enough, you are enough, and you start living in the gratitude and the appreciation and the making a difference with what's already there and giving it your attention and your love and your full appreciation, it grows in the nourishment of that appreciation. It's a completely different model. So I have.

A principle of sufficiency, I call it. If you let go of trying to get more of what you don't really need, which is what we're brainwashed to want more of. It frees up oceans of energy all tied up in that chase to turn and make a difference with what you already have. When you make a difference with what you already have, when you pay attention to what you already have, when you nourish what you already have, love what you already have and share what you already have, it expands a short way of saying that is what you appreciate, appreciates. So even if you're down and out, you've got credit card debt and you've lost your job and things are really terrible, if you actually make a practice of appreciating what you actually do have, being grateful for the time you have, for the freedom you have, for the opportunity you have to express yourself, for the chair you're sitting in, for the sweater you're wearing, for the books behind you, if you actually move into a practice of gratitude and appreciation and nourish what's already there and pay attention to what's already there and share what's already there, it begins to create a new consciousness. And that's really what your work is about, a new consciousness, A consciousness, an awareness, an attention to appreciating what's already there in a way that it appreciates and sharing it. That's the source of true prosperity. And that creates a whole different way of seeing the world. It gives you new eyes, it gives you new access, and then you're not about accumulating. You're known. I want to be known for what I allocate, not what I accumulate. And that's a way of living that produces a kind of constant cycle of benefit and sharing and being in the presence of the prosperity of collaboration, of being in. In communion with other people rather than striving at the expense of everybody else. And it's a mindset I'm talking about. It's. It involves practice, it involves courage, it involves trust, but it really is a way of seeing the world. And I know that you know this very deeply. So that's. That's a few. A few tenets of what I see as a life of sufficiency.

So I'm wondering.

I think, if I'm understanding Craig. I imagine this can really kind of operate at any scale. So someone wants to live in a very kind of interdependent, communal way and really downsize and, you know, really reduce things and could live in a very simple way, still live well, but at a, you know, fairly limited economic level or with limited economic needs. And someone could also, for whatever reasons, you know, develop a business, create some wealth, but do so in the way you're talking about and not get caught up in the greed and still be in that same, that flow. So this kind of, this, this understanding of sufficiency and getting out of the scarcity model could operate at different levels for different people. Maybe that's their karma or just what, you know, what is purposeful or meaningful for them.

Yeah, exactly. So all the studies show that after people's basic needs are met and they feel that they're, they have a sense that that's going to continue, then if they start accumulating a lot more than that, unless they do it for philanthropic reasons so they can be of greater service, their happiness quotient starts going down rather than up. And for some people, that's maybe millions of dollars. I'm not saying there's a cap, although I must say I've. I'm working with some of our global billionaire families and there's one particular example I'll use that this particular person, whose name I won't say is in the many billions of dollars and is working with me to end this scarcity mindset that this person has where he can't stop trying to earn more and wants to stop this manic, frantic pressure that's inside, almost like inside of his body, like a demon that he has to have more. He has to have more. He has to be richer than the next person. And he's so miserable. He has millions, I mean, billions, actually, dollars. And then the kids are totally screwed up, the whole. And my job there is to bring this new consciousness of sufficiency out of which natural abundance flows. Natural abundance is not excess. Natural abundance is not over consumption. Natural abundance is not insanity and elitism and making yourself better than everybody and having darkened windows in your car and a gate around your house because you're terrified of everybody else to take what you've accumulated. Natural abundance is an experience of prosperity where your needs are met. And that which you don't need, which comes to you, which will happen.

Is a blessing that you receive. And any blessing that you receive is there to bless others. And that's a cycle, a give and take cycle, a give and receive cycle, rather than a take, take, take, take, take cycle. We all know we're in terrible trouble with the natural world, that we're taking way, way, way more than is appropriate. That's a macro version of it. But on our micro lives it's the same too. Taking too much water, taking too much food, taking too much this to having too many pairs of shoes, too many outfits, too many, you know, too many for what's right for us. It's fine to have what you need and want and have a cushion, but then to go way beyond that actually begins to create problems for the world. But really, what's really significant in this conversation is it starts to create problems with you that you, I didn't know were going to come. And if that moment comes and you use it to transform your way of being into generosity.

It'S not that it's too late, but it needs to be there at the heart and soul of everything. Generosity is not a fix. It's actually a way of being. So a generous spirit.

Is a key to a true prosperity and abundance. And there's a metaphor I'll use that there's enough and then there's natural abundance. And when you reach this experience of enough, which is hard to find in consumer culture because the culture keeps telling us we need more of everything. That's why we have such obesity. Actually, it's part of the culture of more, more, more, more, more. When you, when you reach the experience of enough, treasure it. And it's hard to do that in consumer culture because there's no validation for enough. There are only validation for more, more, more, more, more. There's not enough, and you got to get more. But that's the teaching that you provide. That's the teaching that this summit is all about. I am enough. I have what I need. I have the talents, treasures, money, friends, relationships I need. And I'm now going to appreciate them so much that in that appreciation, they grow in the nourishment of that appreciation, I grow in the nourishment of the appreciation I have about myself. And that grows into natural abundance. It comes from enough rather than from lack. So it's a shift in the ground of being.

Beautifully said. And I assume this is pretty much the message in your book, your classic book, the Soul of Money. So, yes, yeah, absolutely. So I really encourage people, if they have not yet read that classic book, to, to get that and read that. You know, as you were talking about this, a couple of things I, I've heard, you know, there are, there are enough teachers out there teaching people how to, you know, develop wealth and become successful. And some of that's pretty crass, but some of it's more about teaching people to really appreciate through appreciation and getting in the flow of generosity. And, and I remember one of them saying something like, you know, if you think, if you think there's something wrong with wealth or creating more money. You haven't given away enough money yet, you know, so there was that, that's some say. And you know, some people have a knack with money. Some people have a knack to, you know, that it's, there's a science of kind of how to work successfully with and how to create wealth. And, and if they're oriented towards doing that with the purpose of being able to give more away and support, support really important causes, and then I think that's probably a good thing for them to be doing if they have that particular knack.

Absolutely.

For most of us, it's going to be more about finding that sweet spot, not being overly influenced by the culture and finding what is, what really does feel like enough for me in my life and my family. And then, you know, and then, you know, being able to relax into more of a mind of abundance from that place.

Yes, exactly. And it's, you know, but I also want to say, and I want to say it's, it's available right now in this moment.

Right now in this moment. You know, I, I study with Brother David Stendel Ross, the great Benedictine monk. And he's the icon of gratefulness. And I think you know him or know about him, and he doesn't have any possessions. He's a monk. He has a, you know, a little monk outfit and probably some holy books and, but that's it. And he is the happiest guy in the world. And I, I, I know so many people who are people of, you might call modest means and then people of immense means. It doesn't kind of mean it's not about.

That as much as we think it is about that to some extent. Of course, I would love to make more money than I'm making now. Wonderful for me. I would love to help people, you know, increase their revenues by 30%. That would be wonderful. But I want to do it in a way that they're coming from the deep and profound enoughness that's already part of their life. And from there, appreciation and gratitude, recognizing gratefulness. The word gratefulness is really the great fullness of your life. Noticing, paying attention to the great fullness of your life. The word wealth, the etymology of the word wealth comes from well being. That's where wealth, the word comes from. And that's actually what people want. They wanted a sense of a piece of well being. That's really what wealth, ultimately wealth is. And well being. The word well being comes from the well of being, which is an infinite source in your life. And you teach meditation. And meditation really is dropping into the well of being. That's actually the ultimate source of the word wealth. And that's what we all want. And when we're in that space, that grace of a really powerful meditation session, there's no scarcity there, there's no franticness there, there's no get more than I need there. You know, Gandhi said there's enough for our need, not for our greed. And when you're in that space, which you teach so beautifully at Fleet.

The well being of life is available to us at any moment. And then from there, from appreciating that, from sharing that well being, from expressing kindness and generosity to, and having that be at the core of your business, whatever your business is, then it will flourish, it will prosper, and so will you.

Well, that's beautifully said then. And, and again, so much in the spirit of this summit. We focus a lot on mindfulness and meditation throughout this summit. And we have two full days on health and wellbeing. And when you think of wealth, I mean, it rhymes with health. And there's no greater wealth than our health, right? But I love what you said about the well of being because that really is when we drop beneath all the noise and can drop into the depth of our being, we get the absolutely unmistakable recognition that we're not broken, we don't need fixing, we're not missing anything. And you know, we, if we, and I really encourage everyone to develop their practice, to have those moments, but we probably all had them in somewhere out in nature in some way. That little gap in our life when we realize there's a moment of beingness and there really isn't anything else needed, there's, there is nothing missing, right? And then that changes everything about how you approach the rest of your life. So that inner part is so important. And then on the outer side, if I think the inner does, in some ways it's helpful if that inner can come first. I think think you're pointing to, to develop that sense of gratitude and sufficiency and generosity that's grounded in a direct experience of that well of being that we've actually been there. So we know that the truth of that, we can feel that. And then as we said about how can I organize my life in the outer level around sufficiency for my family, right? What do I need to, what are the things I need to do at what level to organize things and make it work and the given structures of the outer world? I'm In. But if we do it from that place of confidence in our direct experience of the well of being, it changes everything about how we approach it.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, I know I'm talking to the master here. You know, you found your way in prison, so it's so incredible to talk to you. I feel like, you know this so deeply. You're such a great teacher of all this.

Well, I feel very lucky, you know, actually in my own pathway. It's interesting, you know, I'm a baby boomer creature of the 60s. I went full blown into the whole hippie thing and, you know, and. And really kind of became anti capitalist and anti establishment, anti everything. And. And you know, I was always kind of a spiritual seeker, so it was a twisted path. And I got involved in the whole drug, sex and rock and roll and my way into a prison sense and all that. But, you know, I had this kind of, you know, wealth is bad. I grew up in a family that had a family business. And, you know, they also said, oh, that big corporate world of success, that's all good, solid family businesses. That's the way. So there was all this fear I grew up with, and then I kind of rejected the whole thing. And then I became a Buddhist. And I think I misinterpreted Buddhism as being kind of fundamentally anti. You know, it is not a materialistic tradition for sure, but it's not necessarily anti resources. And so it took. So I ended up living small for a long time. But there was some good in that too, because I spent six years living out of a backpack and being perfectly fine. And I spent 14 years in a prison cell and finding my way to be perfectly fine. And so, you know, I go out on street retreats. I lead people on the streets with no money for three, four, five days at a time. And we discover a way of being perfectly fine out there, you know, So I think having those experiences, however we have them, really changes everything. And I'm very grateful for that because, you know, I'm working hard to do well today and create, you know, some financial security for my family. But, you know, my wife and I live in a modest little beautiful home. We love where we live. It's in a little New England village. It's not very big, but it's just big enough for us. And we have absolutely aspiration to get some great big house. We just have to clean it. If we did, we'd lose our things. You know, I get lost walking around in it. So, you know, I do feel grateful that somehow that sense of sufficiency and enoughness has evolved in my life through all these experiences. But. But I don't think there's any replacement for meditation and accessing that well of being. I love that expression. Absolutely love it. Let's talk about your new book.

Talk about.

Your notebook. Is living a committed life finding freedom and fulfillment in a purpose larger than yourself? And you talked before about the power of commitment and describing your own life path, of how when we make that commitment, then it kind of reaches back into us and begins to form us in a way that we can fulfill that commitment. And, you know, that could go at all kinds of different, extraordinary, surprising ways. But.

So how do we find our way into that of discovering something that we would be able to commit? You know, part of the vision of the summit is. Is not giving up on our dreams. Right. And, you know, it's a fresh start. It's a new year. Let's. Let's dream big, go back to some of the dreams we had. Not give up on it.

And.

But how do people find the courage and the clarity and the discernment to make a commitment that really will be that kind of commitment, that will start being a process of formation for us in a way our life can unfold from that?

Well, gosh, thank you so much for asking that. The book Living a Committed Life is really about exactly this.

And this is a belief that I have, I'll say, an assertion that we're living at a very, very epic time in history. And if you're alive today, I think you have a role to play. I don't think it's an accident that you're alive right now. That I'm alive right now. I don't think it's an accident that we met. I don't think it's an accident that anybody signed up for this summit that had the consciousness to realize that they wanted this in their life and in their path. And that's a sign that. That there is a longing and eagerness now for people to find their purpose. And I'm saying a purpose larger than your own life, starring you. Excuse me. Your own life starring you. One's own life. Starring if your life is about your life, starring you, you, you can get really caught up in. I'm not tall enough, I'm not young enough, I'm not this enough. I'm not do people really like me? Enough with this. And, oh, I need more of that. And there's something wrong with me and I don't speak French and why Can't I do this and I'm too fat and da, da, da. We get into a kind of a litany of evaluating and judging ourselves with our thoughts, negative thoughts that are just, you know, can just take you down. But when you have a commitment to a life purpose larger than your own life that has some deep and profound aspect of service, then your petty thoughts about yourself, they're not gone. You know, we're human, but they move to the background and they start. The volume goes down and your commitment moves in the foreground. So for me, it was ending world hunger. When I first committed to that, it just changed everything for me. I wasn't worried about whether I looked good or whether I was wearing all that stuff. I. I became a person ending world hunger. And that woke me up in the morning, that told me who to talk to, that told me what to wear, that sent me on this place and that place.

And it doesn't have to be ending world hunger. It could be to be the best kindergarten teacher you could possibly be for the next two years while you decide what your next career is going to be. And have each one of those children know that they're seen and valued and adored and mirror back to them their greatness so they grow up to be the best human being they can be. It can be that it doesn't need to be some giant commitment, but I recommend it's something larger than your own life that's in service of something or someone or some initiative. And we live in an epic time in history. It's an all hands on deck time. So I'm doing everything I can to encourage people to make commitments that really are in service of the great challenges we face. And the way to find that is to notice what breaks your heart. What have you always been kind of disturbed by, concerned by, worried about that you think you may be able to do something, to turn around or what have you always been drawn to? Maybe on the playground when you saw a bully beating up on another kid and you were the one who went in there and broke up the fight. So you're about nonviolence. Or maybe you're someone who, in fifth grade, when you were choosing who was going to be on your kickball team, you chose the kid that wasn't so good. Because you're all about inclusion. You can look back at your life and see that there's usually a theme, a way of being that drew you into your professional life, that had you make decisions, think about who are your heroes and heroines when you were Little Was it Jane Goodall? Was it Mother Teresa? Was it Mahatma Gandhi? Was it Martin Luther King? That'll give you clues to what your kind of your life purpose is. And when you find that, as I said earlier.

And you commit to it, like you really commit to it, then something happens to you and everything starts to magnetize to make that mission be attainable for you. There's a wonderful quote that most people know, I'm sure you know it, until you commit. And once you commit, once you commit, providence moves too. But until you commit, there's hesitation, tentativeness, we're kind of all over the place, going kind of sideways in life. Once you commit, there's freedom, there's full self expression, and there's a path that shapes you, molds you, you know, rubs against the sandpaper of life and smooths you into, refines you into being the kind of human being that you are now. Fleet. I mean, you know, with your history and look at what you're doing now and the thousands and thousands, probably millions of people who are benefiting from your voice, from your image, from your insights from who you are, you probably couldn't have imagined that as a kid or as a teenager or young person in the wild child time. So it's really incredible what a commitment does. So this book, Living, I got one right here. Living a Committed Life is about finding that commitment. There's some keys here into how to find it, but there's no real formula. It's really about what you teach, paying attention.

Noticing what really pulls to your heart, what breaks your heart, what pulls through your vision. And start honing in on that and talking to people like you, like people that you trust, people who know who you are and then find that statement, that stand that you want to take. I must stand for justice. Or I'm a stand to transform the prison system. Or I'm a stand to make sure every child has someone who stands for them, who loves them, who, who cares for them. Or I must stand to do everything I can to eradicate sexual abuse. Or I must stand to create music in life. I'm a stand to bring love to every encounter I have. Those kinds of commitments actually change your life. And because you're committed to changing the world, what happens is it changes your life as well. And you can't do it to change your life because that's pretty self serving. It needs to be authentically. I want to do this for the world. And then it comes back and transforms your life.

Really beautiful. I think that from the sky Somalian expedition or something like that. Is that the one about commitment? Providence moves with us. Once we really finally commit, and, you know, the world will test us along the way when we make those commitments to see if we're serious. I'm wondering about, you know, there's a training I lead where we very much use the power of commitment. We have a big poster on the wall and we also. This may have come from Werner. I don't know. We talk about the power of proclamation. So I'm wondering about, you know, the importance of kind of, in whatever ways, voicing that commitment, letting people know about that commitment, letting the world know about that commitment, rather than keeping it a private matter.

Yes. When you have a commitment and you know that it stirs your soul, it makes a huge difference to communicate it, to make it public, to write it on the wall. Yes. But also to tell people that you trust and that you respect about your commitment so that they can create an environment and ecosystem that holds you to account. It strengthens it for you, and it. Strength strengthens it strengthens it in the world at large. It becomes a public declaration, proclamation. So things like manifestos and petitions, you know, sometimes people think they don't make a difference. They do. They really do. I learned that in the Hunger Project. But most. Mostly, I think what we're talking about is our. So if people, you know, people know me, as you said, as a woman who's worked on global issues, who'd made. Made a difference with her life, who's working on now the Amazon rainforest and preserving it for future generations. So people relate to me out of my commitments, not out of my personality, out of my commitments. And that creates an environment of accountability where I have to live up to my word. And so you become known for what you give your word to, rather than, you know, he's handsome and charming and delightful. Yes, that's true about you also. But I know you best, and I think people relate to you out of the extraordinary commitment you've made to mindfulness, meditation, consciousness, and transforming the world. And that creates an environment, that declaration, that proclamation is true for you. Obviously, you live it. You live it, every breath you take. And now the environment around you totally supports you in living up to that commitment that you've given your word to. It makes a huge difference if it's private. You know, we make these New Year's resolutions, as you talked about earlier. We can make them, you know, we can write them down and stuff and tell a few folk, but that's different than a proclamation. A declaration, a commitment where you've given your word and then you invite people that you respect and that respect you to hold you to it by sharing it with them. So it's a. It's a very intimate thing, and it's a very public intimacy, and I love the power of that. You know, all the people that we consider to be great, we know what they're committed to. It's not that we don't want to know about their family and whether or not they like, you know, the color red or purple. But that's not what we admire about them. What we admire about them, what we're inspired about them, is what they've given what I'll call their word to. And that's why declaration is so powerful.

Wow. Beautiful. So, Lynn, we're kind of near the end of our time here. I'm wondering any final thoughts from you or anything along the lines of this summit is all about, let's make this year the best year of our life. And that has to do with being the best version of ourselves. Not from a place of not enoughness, but just the fact that we're designed as life forms to grow and thrive and evolve. So any final message around making this the best year of our life, or even for you? What would make this year the best year of your life?

Well, I'll just say for everybody, but also for myself. Surround yourself with people that you love and that love you. Surround yourself with circumstances, opportunities, and activities that broaden and deepen your sense of self and make you even a more effective human being. Make sure that your generosity is in the forefront of your life rather than the background.

Live what I call a grateful life, where the great fullness of your life is a constant thing that you speak about, that you acknowledge, not out of boasting or arrogance, but out of humility, the gratitude for living a life of meaning and to constantly acknowledge your blessings.

To have the best year of your life is to say over and over again, this is the best year of my life. I love what I'm doing. I love my life. I love my husband. I love my work. I love this. And actually say it and mean it. Use the word love as often as you can, authentically. That inspires people, and it creates a little rivulets in the brain that deepen your capacity to love. And then when things are toxic or they're not working well or you have a breakdown or things are a little bit difficult, know that in every breakdown, the seeds of a breakthrough that's way greater than the breakdown are there. And once you're done being upset about the breakdown, you can't do that forever. And it's kind of tiresome after the first few upsets. Realize there are seeds here for a breakthrough. Pay attention to them, water them, and you'll have a breakthrough out of that breakdown that is way greater than the breakdown. And you'll look back and be grateful for the breakdown because it gave you the breakthrough. So have a great year. I plan on having the best year of my life and I hope you do too. Thank you. Flev. It's always a joy to talk to you. Always inspiring for me. It makes me cry. I'm so glad I'm your friend and thank you for including me in this summit and in the great, awesome transformational work you do for people.

Well, I'm completely inspired having spent this time with you today and this is already the best year of my life and I am certainly committed to this being the best year of my life and really wish that for all of our audience. And it's just been a joy spending this time with you, Lynn, and thank you so much for being part of our summit. Where can people find out more about your work that want to learn more about your work?

Well, they go to soul of money.org or pachamama.org those two are my my loves. I love my work at the Soul of Money Institute. I do a lot of courses for women, a lot of courses on money. I do coaching. I, you know, I have this wonderful book and oh, I know I should tell you, I don't know when this is going to run but I'm doing an hour long book launch with Jack Canfield who's the number one best selling author of all time on November 29th. I don't know the timing of this interview, but November 29th in 2022 from 12 to 1 Pacific time. And it's going to be so cool because Jack is such a, such a teacher for me, such a mentor so people can come and learn about the book then if not just buy the book Living a Committed Life or Soul of Money, which, which Fleet has promoted many times. Those both of those books will give you a lot more of what I have to offer and hopefully be useful to you in your life. Thank you.

Well, thank you so much, Lynn. Again, Soul of Money definitely did create transformation in my life and in a nonprofit I've been directing for 33 years. We work with Lynn for a couple of years and really just almost just environmentally, energetically it transformed everything we're doing and the organization is thriving, successful today and I'm very grateful for that. So thank you so much.

Oh, you know, I'm doing a fundraising training on December 8 online, the one that you participated in called Fundraising from the Heart. And that's also on my website, Fundraising from the Heart on the soul of money.org website.

Thank you so much and be well. Have a great year.

You too. Thank you.

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