EP 207: Melanie Tonia Evans | Healing from Narcissistic Abuse

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Hi. Welcome to the Radical Responsibility podcast. This is Dr. Fleet Mall, your host and in this episode we're going to have a conversation with Melanie Tony Evans, a global expert in narcissistic abuse recovery and creator of the Quanta Freedom Healing method. So we're going to talk about identifying the foundational values of healthy relationships, steps to free yourself from toxic relationship and narcissistic relationships, what to say and do to quickly determine if someone is a narcissist, the four pillars of identity needed to heal after narcissistic abuse, what to expect in recovery process from narcissistic abuse, and much, much more. Before we get started, just wanted to remind you to please subscribe to this podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an interview. Also, if you would like to download my free neurosomatic mindfulness ebook, you can go to heartmind Co NSM podcast. You could also order my book Radical Responsibility and get over $1,000 in free bonuses by ordering it from your favorite bookseller and then putting the order number or receipt on our website@radicalresponsibilitybook.com radicalresponsibilitybook.com Just go there, order the book from your favorite bookseller, put the receipt order number there and you will receive over $1,000 in free bonuses including courses and challenges. Join our facebook group@facebook.com groups hmisummitcommunity Also, please consider becoming a member of Heart, Mind, All Access, community and membership. This global movement that's about global transformation based on recognizing the reality of our innate goodness and developing effective mindfulness based trauma, informed self regulation skills and co regulation skills. Our goal is to reach a big billion people with these skills and so consider joining us and having access to all of our summits and all of our courses for a very modest subscription fee. And that's at heartmind. Co. Hmm. Heartmind Co. Hmm. And don't forget to become a member to follow us on instagram@instagram.com heartmind institute and on facebook@facebook.com heartmindinstitute facebook.com heartmindinstitute and you could always visit us at heartmind co to learn more about all of our programs. Okay, so we'll get started here with my conversation with Melanie Tonya Evans.

And I'm thrilled to be here today with Melanie Tonya Evans. Welcome Melanie.

Hello, Fleet. Thank you for having me.

Oh, we're delighted to have you be part of our summit. So I'm going to share your bio, a bit of your background, and then we'll jump right into the conversation. Sound good?

Yeah, great, thank you.

Okay, so Mel Antonia Evans is a global narcissistic abuse recovery expert, creator of the Quanta Freedom Healing method and the Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program, or narp. Melanie's leading edge healing method has helped thousands of people make astounding recoveries from trauma. Melanie's work has touched over 15 million people from over 150 countries, revolutionizing the survival model to one of thriver status. She is the author of you can Thrive after Narcissistic Abuse, the number one system for recovering from toxic relationships and Amazon bestseller and also the 2019 personality of the year award winner from Kindred Spirit. So again, welcome Melanie. And we're here on day three of the summit where we're focused on social and relationship self care. So I'm inspired to be exploring this topic with you. I. I doubt if anybody, I imagine just about everybody knows someone whose lives have been touched by narcissistic abuse. And it can be really difficult to deal with. I know that and, and I've had to deal with it in some difficult business relationships and it's really, really challenging. Certainly the treatment for clinical narcissism is very treatment. So the people suffering from narcissism who create this abuse or can be very difficult to treat and of course it comes out of their own wounding. But then the people who suffer from narcissistic abuse, it can just be really complex trauma as you're the expert on. So I'm really grateful we can have this conversation. So your life's work has been dedicated to guiding, supporting and inspiring people to heal from the trauma that results from narcissistic abuse, narcissistic relationships or toxic relationships. And so I'm wondering, wondering how you got inspired to do this work. I would imagine there's a personal story behind this.

There is. I had no idea, Fleet, I was going to grow up to be a narcissistic abuse recovery expert. Yeah. So my story is very similar to a lot of people's stories. I married a narcissist. And at the time I really did. I just thought narcissism was an egotistical person. So I was so blind sighted. And what was huge for me was I really believed that this was my one and only. Finally. And we got married very quickly, which was very unusual for Me. And what happened was this person. There was lots of red flags, Fleet. I ignored them. I really felt such a massive soul connection to this person. So the abuse escalated. And what shocked me was I had always walked away from things like that before. In this time, I was really in trouble because I felt so addicted to him. I kept returning to him. It didn't make any logical sense. I ended up having a complete psychotic adrenal breakdown that I was told by the medical community and psychology I would never recover from. I was told, and it really was game over. I couldn't function by that stage. I was 80 pounds, which is around 37 kilos. My hair fell out in clumps. I hadn't slept for six months. I couldn't eat for six months. And I was having fully blown psychotic episodes. So I was prescribed three antipsychotics for the rest of my life. I was told that I would never recover and I would never come back any functioning as normal. And at that stage of my life, Fleet, I wanted out. I'd been a strong A type personality, always been able to get up and get on with my life. Prided myself as being able to achieve anything. And this time, my complete identity was shattered too. How do I even begin to rebuild? I'd lost everything I took into the relationship. I'd lost my credibility, I'd lost my business, I'd lost my family. I'd pretty much lost my son. I'd lost everybody and everything in my life and I wanted out. And I was at that point of how am I going to leave without creating too much drama? I was plotting it. And there was a voice in my head, Fleet, that just kept saying, no, there's another way. And I thought it was my madness speaking. And it argued with me. And I went to my bathroom and I fell on my bathroom floor. And I put my hands up, always believed in a higher power. And I just screamed, help me, I can't do this anymore. And I didn't surrender to get an answer. I just surrendered because there was nothing else to do. And at that moment, I had an experience, Fleet, that was so profound. It was like maybe you have to be completely out of your mind to get the truth. And I was. It was like my head split. This download of awareness came into me that was so crystal clear. I'd never known anything so truthful in my entire life. And it showed me and spoke to me about this person had come into my life as a catalyst to show me all of the parts where I haven't partnered and I didn't heal myself. He'd reflected to me all the ways I treated myself, all of my conditional love where I was never good enough to even like myself unless I ticked off my hundred step to do list all the way. And when I was screaming at him things like, you don't even know me with these accusations, the awareness was, when have you got to know yourself? When have you turned within? Where have you? And it was astounding fleet because I'd been into personal development for decades to that point. But what I realized and I was shown was a deeper quantum understanding of so within. So without that, if there's still trauma in your energy field from your childhood, from your genetic history, from your past, and, and you haven't let it go, that it's going to meet you in the field and show you the evidence of it. And it went on and on and on. It was like this whole quantum scholarship I was going through in seconds. Then I got catapulted into the future, and I saw and felt myself free, whole on the inside. I'd actually never felt it, even as a child, even before this had happened to me. Never. And I was told by this voice in my head that if you decide to take this path that we're going to show you, this is where you're going to be. But you can leave and say no if you like, and that's okay. It's your choice. I chose that path with whatever I had left. Then the vision stopped. I came back into my emaciated, shaking, sweating, traumatized body. I wasn't healed, but I knew what had happened was real. I didn't know how I was going to do it. But what I did know, and this was huge, was that this actually wasn't about him, that this was about me. And up until that point, my focus had been, I'm a good person, which I was. And I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I'm a victim to all of this. It completely changed to, this didn't happen to me, this happened for me, and I'm going to accept this mission of life from the inside out. And from now on, from this day on, it's not even about him. So I held no contact. The next day, I went back into my appointment, and it was CAT Team, where I talked my way out of antipsychotics, which was a miracle, and I never took them. And from that. And then that day, I was off. You know, that watch. I knew I wasn't going to end my life But I had a bath with me and I imagined my inner child inside of me. And I saw her and I held her and I said to her, sweetheart, I am so sorry that I went for that food and the cigarettes and the alcohol and all of the research about him and running back to him. And I know you've been screaming for me, sweetheart, I'm here. I don't know how I'm going to do this. I know we can together and I'm never leaving you again. And I would say that self to myself over and over and over and over. Even before I found the quantum tools, the amazing thing was Slate, my psychotic episode stopped because I. I'd showed up for myself with love and devotion. And that's what she needed. And there was a long way to go. But that was the beginning of the journey. So that's how now at this stage, I didn't know he was a narcissist. I'd researched it extensively. I absolutely knew that he was a narcissist. I knew I had to get away. And that was the only thing that got me away. Because even before then, even before that experience, I'd seen a specialist. She said, there's three possibilities of this. Either he's going to kill you, you will kill him in reactive abuse, or you are going to have a complete, four actually a complete psychotic breakdown, which I did have, or you're going to manifest a terminal illness because you are so sick and traumatized. There's no happy endings to this. Even though I knew that conceptually Fleet, I could not get away and stay away after the experience, I never again broke no contact and I got firmly dedicated to healing me. And then that ended up being a global mission with others. I think it's a bit like what Louise Hayes said years ago. They said, how did you do this business? She said, I just opened the mail and answered the phone. So you know, I wrote some articles about my experience and before I knew it and, and so on and so forth. But when I found the tools to heal, I started serendipitously. People were coming into my experience that had suffered abuse and I'd already been a life coach, a metaphys physician, I'd been a past life regression therapist, all sorts of things. So I took on a whole different thing about not just information or meditation, about being able to load up trauma, release it and bring in true source to heal ourselves, which is how I did. And there was many incredible experiences on my path. The bottom line is I ended up healing the unhealable that I was told medically physically psycho. My brain, brain had broken eye brain damage. My brain after healing from the inside out in a quantum way has never been better. My whole life has never get better. I'm nearly 60 years of age. I'm the healthiest, most expanded. I have a beautiful relationship. I rebuilt everything I lost tenfold. And this is what I am so excited about. Teaching other people the same. To come back from the brink, to end up better than what we were even before the abuse.

Wow.

I've actually never heard your story before. It's. I'm just, wow. Amazing.

Really incredibly powerful story. And that you've been able to bring this gift into the world.

It reminds me of Bill Wilson story, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous who had a similar moment where you know, that's right. Suddenly just got that, that download and that, that complete shift. So wow, that is so incredibly powerful and such an empowering message because it didn't leave you as, you know, just an identified victim of a narcissist. You actually understood the purpose of this in your life and it empowered you to really heal and transform. So that is, that is just so amazing. So for those in our audience who are maybe not so familiar with, you know, clinical narcissism that, I mean, sometimes narcissism can just be used as a general.

And as you said, you, you thought before it just meant being egotistical. Could you explain to us exactly what narcissism is and maybe what are some of the signs of it showing up in your relationship and how somebody might know if they're in relationship with a narcissist?

I love that question. And I'm going to go straight to the quantum truth. You can read up on it, et cetera, et cetera. The real truth of it is it's an individual who is disconnected from Source, their higher self, their higher power. We might think of sources. The unseen unrecognized world, which is the energetic vibration outside of space and time that is love and well being and growth and life force. You know, nature's a beautiful representation to me of source. It's life force. So what happens with a narcissist is. And they can be born that way. I. It can be nature, it can be nurture. But what happens is, is they've decided that as myself, I'm unworthy of love and all of the good stuff. So. And I'm, I'm just going to ignore self and I'm going to create a fictitious character in its place. Now the big Defining thing about a narcissist is there's not the humility or the unity consciousness to say my higher consciousness and self source is, is, is the infinite mind, the infinite beautiful power. The narcissist in a very small defined ego says I am God, I am God. It's separation consciousness. Now that I am God and I'm not. Oneness means it's me versus you. I. For me to win, somebody else has to lose. There's limited resources and what I need to do. See, for a narcissist, the, the end gives them justification of the means of their tactics. So a narcissist knows they lie, they know they manipulate, they know they tell people what they want to hear. But to them it's fair game. They're amoral because that secures what they need to survive. And what a narcissist needs to survive is narcissistic supply, which is attention and energy. Good or bad, it makes no difference. If I'm the center of your universe, emotionally that means that I'm significant and I exist. Narcissists are massively insecure. So it comes across as I'm brash and I'm big and I'm confident, but it's a massive defense mechanism. It's an ego, it's a false self. And you find that out with a narcissist because if you threaten their narrative in the simplest of ways, real or perceived, and it's a hairline trigger, you will see that they act like a spoiled five year old. They don't like the way you looked at them, you didn't agree and fluff their feathers enough, you didn't fawn enough when they walked in the door. You have any sort of focus on anybody else and say oh wow, this person was really great and I felt so inspired. They could go into a seething rage about that or ignore you or punish you, dare you get energy or focus from anything. That's not me. So a narcissist, you know, when they come into your life, they because think the myth of vampire is modeled on narcissism. It literally is. So a vampire is the walking dead. So the narcissist disconnected from true source is anti life. They don't have well being and life force. They have to suck the blood, the energy force and the resources of other human beings to prop them up and sustain the living dead. And it literally is that creepy.

So you mentioned people can be born that way. It could be nature or nurture. I do believe that and I guess there if Somebody's born that way. I guess there could be some genetic or epigenetic factors, but if it is more, you know, life circumstances, then I would assume it's some kind of extreme childhood trauma that leaves them in that profound state of insecurity and, and disconnected from. I mean, there is neurobiological elements to this as well. I mean, you've described it in a very profound, almost metaphysical way. But by that I don't mean that being negative at all. No, but, but, but another way it's sometimes described is the narcissist. Their empathy circuitry is just not hooked up.

Correct.

They just do not have a capacity to feel others, to have that empathic connection.

They don't. They don't flee. And that is so, so true. And it's really interesting. You could even have identical twins and one of them will have a tendency towards codependency and the other one to narcissism. And really what we need to look at is the human aspect of what our programming and conditioning has been, that we're defined by the outside instead of. We are brought up to know about our source spiritual connection, to know our wholeness and our oneness within. Our role models have been kept in a state of survival. And trau trauma and PTSD is the human condition because there's so much trauma to just survive. Put food on the table and a roof over the head. So, you know, our parents mightn't have had time to sit with us when we've had emotional triggers which are age appropriate to say, you know, sweetheart, feel it, breathe it in your body, know you're wonderful anyway, and know how to self soothe and know how to be still with your emotions rather than self avoiding, self medicating and self abandoning with outside things to try to numb out the pain. And what can happen with two different children is seeking out a relief for a narcissist. It's like, well, I'm going to control, to get my share of the goodies and I'm going to have the upper hand. And with the codependent, I'm going to please you and I'm going to grant you what you want so you'll love me and take care of me. And it can all happen from the same family environment. But what I believe is epigenetically and also in a spiritual contract. We've come in with a tendency in regard to the soul lessons we need to learn as to which side of it we're going to play.

Wow.

Well, interesting to speculate about, you know, what Is that journey for a narcissist? Because very difficult to learn lessons when you're in that narcissistic.

I don't.

Yeah, so.

And I do believe I know the answer.

Narcissism, at least my understanding of it, is extremely difficult to treat, which what I think is one reason, or to heal or treat, which is one reason why people who find themselves in a narcissistic relationship need to let go of any fantasies they have about fixing the person.

100.

Would you agree with that?

Yeah, I would, 100%. And you know, just to add on a little bit to that, Fleet, to me, the definition of narcissism is unconsciousness. And the unconsciousness is I am not the generative source of my own experience. It's happening to me. I'm a victim. And therefore that's the way it is. So there's no self insight, there's no self humility. There's no ability to be humble, real and vulnerable with self, which is, I have to meet and feel what are my vulnerabilities and my wounds in order to heal them. And to a narcissist, that is, well, you can't do that with a false self. You can't do that with an egoic delusion, ego edging God out. You can't let the light in. It's impossible.

So I'm imagining, just as our listeners, our audience is listening to this conversation and especially to your story, that many may be either recognizing or wondering if they have not been in a narcissistic relationship previously or maybe are in one now. And so, you know, if someone really feels they are probably or potentially in a narcissistic relationship, you know, where does their path begin to start taking steps to protect themselves or. Or get clarity about it? And so they know they need to take steps to protect themselves.

Really good question. And clarity is so difficult because there's such a fog that goes with unconsciousness. Now I kind of want to step away from even saying narcissist or not, because that can drive people crazy. You may be able to look it up if you come to my resources. I've got a really good article, am I a Narcissist? And I think it explains that look humbly, probably more clearly than where you'll get most information. You'll have a tick list. But what I really do want to say, Fleet, is when we understand our values and our truths and who we are and what is necessary for a healthy relationship, it needs consciousness, but foundational values. We can't have a relationship with anybody unless they're honest, unless they've got an ability to want to be in a team with you. Which means we can do. We might disagree, but we can do solution conversation. You can't be in a relationship unless they can validate your feelings. You can't be in a relationship with somebody if they have zero ability to have remorse. Every human messes up, right? Of course we're human. But a person who has got a conscience and a good character can say sorry. They can admit they're wrong, they can care about your feelings, and they can say, look, I understand that I hurt you and I'm sorry. I did. And I, I don't want to do that. This is how I can make this better and not do this again. So we might say, all right, somebody has got some narcissistic traits. They're fully blown npd or they're just selfish and unconscious. And when we're, we're trying to have a relationship with anybody who doesn't have those foundational values, well, then you're in a toxic relationship. Because what's happening is you are trying to explain and change somebody. And you're just doing this intuitively because you know it can't work. You might know why it can't work, but you're trying to make it work. So you're trying to explain fundamental human adult principles to somebody who's behaving like a five year old, who plays tit for tat, who refuses to take responsibility, who comes up with excuses, who blames you, who brings up something six months ago that you did, who won't even stay, who, who is angry for you bringing up that you're hurt because of what they did.

And that's narcissism personified. You know, I don't even like the word narcissist. It's unconscious. And here it is, you know, you end up with somebody. And it's very hard in the fog of war with a narcissist because there's a whole lot of our unconsciousness stuff and our painful love codes. You know, we're repeating our childhood, our unfinished business. The people I love invalidate me, the people I love abandon me. The people I love replace me. And we fall in love with those same people and they come into our life and they enmesh with us. It's a marriage made in hell. But what it really is, there's such an unconscious part of us that is really saying, I'm with mum and dad again, hoping they're going to do it. Differently. So it's those small, hurt, unhealed parts of us that are the glue. And when they're the glue, we look at this person as the savior of our wounds. Rather, they're the messenger, because a narcissist also, too, is so attuned. They're a predator. And what they do is they ask people's questions. They act really attentive and loving, and it's an actual. But they are specifically looking for the information about you, about what still hurts you or what you feel is missing in your life. And then they purport to be the savior of it. And it creates massive bonding because energetically, they're familiar to the past. You don't know that yet, but also, too, you fall in love with this vision of them that they're pretending to be. And then they do the flip and script. They. They do the bait. That's the bait. So you let them into your heart, your body, your bed, your home, your soul, your finances. Very quickly you think you've got your one and only, but then what they do is the switch. So the things that are unhealed, then they start showing up as the true self, smashing those parts of you because they're also such a damaged inner being, they want to kick the cat. They want to attack something outside of themselves because that offloads their pain. But they also know that trauma bonds you to them because they're going to withhold and they're going to hurt you with your original wounds. You're going to trauma bond and go after them to be the savior, that you've positioned them as the God in your world and so on and so forth. And you're in a cycle of violence, and it's very foggy because they blame you. They tell you it's your fault, they project it, or they confuse you, they gaslight you. So back to your original question. What do you do? Well, I would say detach and come into my work because I will help you detangle this and get your sanity, your soul and your life back. But you have to detach. The more you get involved with them and try to get them to stop, the more you hand them the bullets to shoot you with.

So you mentioned in your own relationship with your first husband, I guess, and.

It was a narcissist, that there were.

A lot of red flags, which you ignored at the time. Totally. So as I'm listening to you, it would seem like maybe one red flag or maybe a collection of red flags would be sort of intensity, the intensity of the bonding, the intensity of the attraction, the pull, the connection, then followed by this switch kind of behavior.

So, so much. And what is. Because people go around going, well, show me all the red flags and teach me. And that's the wrong, wrong town. Because, well, narcissists don't show up wearing a T shirt. I'm a narcissist. I'm going to smash your life. They don't. They actually show up as personable, as really beautiful, interest in you. Amazing, fun, exciting. They're big and bright and shiny. That is a huge warning to you straight away. It's really interesting because I'm actually working with a group at the moment, one of one of my classes. And, you know, we're up to the point where we're teaching them that this is about. We need to be the choosers, not the chosen for a start. And the thing is, too, if you're getting those kinds of feelings, this is about slowing right down. The scariest thing for a narcissist and what flushes them out quite easily, very easily, actually, is if you have your life and if you really. I remember back in dating before my lovely partner now, who is not a narcissist, when I learned this stuff and it was so interesting to see meeting a narcissist. And I met quite a few. They will question you and they will ask you questions. They're looking, you know, what happened in your last relationships? Why are you single? And my answer, because I was so working on me, is that first of all, I'd say to them, yeah, I'm looking for a life partner, but it has to be the right person. And then I would say to them things like, well, yeah, look, things, you know, didn't work out. But it was so awesome because I really got to work on myself and I'm learning about me and I'm loving the journey. And you can see their head spin because it's like, where's my gap? Where do I zone in on? You know, where do I hook you in? And it was really interesting because one guy, once, he goes, oh, look, I'm into self development and everything. And. And I said, yeah, great. What have you read? What do you. What have learned? And he was trying to bluff his way out of it. No. And I just kept asking him questions, and he was like, oh, look, I've just got to go. Like, I. I've realized that, oh, there's a problem at my work. I'm like, it comes. And I thought, you're so busted.

Yeah. You know, from what you're saying, I mean, it's something, it's all about self care and, you know, physical, mental, emotional and spiritual self care. And from what I hear you saying, the more we focus on self compassion, self love, good self care and self empowerment, really, you know, focus on that in genuine ways and get support maybe in community so we know we have some clarity. We're doing in genuine ways. The less vulnerable we're going to be to getting hooked into a narcissistic relationship and the more obvious it'll be if we are in one. You know that.

It's so true. And just another point I'd like to add with that. If we go and buy a car and a house, we'll do our research, we take our time. We don't go beautiful and shiny, I'll just have it. Or you know, or we just don't buy a house unless we get a termite inspection. So this is about when we know values and character. We take our time before falling into somebody and handing it all over. We were taught through Hollywood, weren't we? Like chemical attraction, it's on. No, this is the most critical decision of your life. Really good partners who are strong and solid in their body and you can have a good relationship with, they would expect you to take your time. They would expect you to go in a public place on three dates. They would expect you to say, only after exclusivity, commitment are we going to have sex. And even then it might be six weeks of going to meet each other. Good, solid people. If you are high value and you respect yourself, they're going to love that. A narcissist will hate it because they are so empty and needy. They have to feed and suck you in so fast and think of a predator. It gets the limping gazelle at the edge of the pack who doesn't put up a fight. They don't go for the strong bison in the middle of a pack. The strong bison is of value. You need the suit, especially for women to step up. He needs to get across the drawbridge. He needs to go and consult the father. He needs to go through all of these stages before you say, as a high value person, you are good enough character and human being to be in my life. He needs to step up and good, solid human beings, if you love and respect yourself, they can love and respect you.

Well, let's talk a bit, Melanie, about the recovery process. So, you know, let's say, you know, someone is already out of a narcissistic relationship or has recognized it and is, you know, doing what they need to protect themselves, to separate, to get out. There can still be a long process of recovery. And so I know that's what your community and your work is all about. So you could talk a little bit about that recovery process from narcissistic abuse.

Yeah, sure. And we do actually even have people recovering in the relationship where for whatever reason, they can't leave yet. We really do modified contact. And it can be done. Don't use it as an excuse. So if you can get out and get no contact, it's definitely much better. The first thing after no contact, Fleet, a lot of people don't understand is aftershock. And it really frightens them because when you're in the fight and the battle, you're hooked up in the peptides and the addiction. And even though it's shocking, you have not been alone with you to hit the effects of yesterday, last week, 10 years ago. And when you actually get that no contact, that's when you get slammed. And that whole feeling is, I feel like I can't live. I have to go back. This must be love. I can't survive this. Also, too, narcissists are high conflict. You're going to get such a shock of what they're capable of when you split up with them. You become the enemy. And they're out to annihilate you because their false self requires. You're the bad one, I'm the good one. And they need the evidence of that to feed their their false self. And they'll portray it to everybody else. You'll get smeared to all and sundry. So there's a lot to go through that's going to really shock you. So what we do, Fleet, in our community, is we actually don't do the healing at a head level. We do it at a deep, emotional, somatic, subconscious level. And that's where the Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program and Corner Freedom come into it. Because there's so many overwhelming triggers. You're actually in a peptide addiction with that person. You're literally physiologically addicted to the strong emotional rushes that you've had with them. The rumination is insane, Fleet. People feel like they're going crazy. Why do I keep shooting myself a thousand times over with the same bullet by thinking about it, I can't get an answer. I can't get solution. And we know that from a brain body connection. Your brain is following the body. You've got supreme trauma inside of you that is literally an energetic reality in your Somatic emotional body. What saved my life and gave me my life, and this is what I give with others, is corner freedom. Healing can target and load up that trauma on any topic, release it through a meditation, visualization that's quantum clear. Where that was in your being, bring in source, which is light, life force, God, creation, that can heal what we can't, a higher power, which is our higher self. And we get a shift out of who you are being into your true self on any topic, it can happen within half an hour. What happens with narcissistic abuse is we got a ton of stuff there. We've had a lot of damage to the four pillars. Your ability to have love and approval, survival and security, the four pillars of your inner identity have been shattered. So there's a lot of work. But what we find fleet is with a lot of people from the first healing, they get relief. It's a feeling of oh my God, I found something that actually makes a difference within weeks to months. Often the narcissist becomes like a memory, even if they have to go through court and custody. And within 12 to 18 months, people's lives are unrecognizable and often far superior than the ones even before abuse. And even if they were born into a narcissistic family. Because what happens is the narcissist, I call them, aids angels in disguise posing as narcissists are actually the spiritual soul contract evidence of everything that we haven't healed that was unconscious because they smash it with ferocity. So when we're clearing and detoxing them out of our energy field and our life, we're cleaning up all the stuff that was never allowing us to be free, to be ourselves, to truly live and thrive.

So this, I mean I, I really love with what you're talking about. And I mean you can't quite separate the psychological from the spiritual, from what you're referring to as quantum energy, you know that level. But, but nonetheless, what I hear you saying is that is the real deep healing for narcissism requires that more spiritual quantum level of energy shift and really connecting with our true self, our higher self, and this greater, vaster sense of being that that's where the real healing is, as opposed to it simply being a cognitive process or anything like that, 100%.

And this is the true evidence of it. Even people, if they're very scientific and they're not into, they might think it's woo woo. There is nobody who would tell you that there's anything logical about narcissism narcissistic abuse. You'll end up screaming at yourself, I'm a really smart, capable person. Because you are. Why can't I let go? You know that you feel like the narcissist has perpetrated your being like a black sticky ink. You know, when you talk about them that you feel your life or sucked out of you. You are in a spiritual battle for your soul. That's the truth.

Wow. Wow. What about, you know.

Not that this should be an excuse of any kind, but in, in relationships where someone finds themselves in a narcissistic relationship, a toxic relationship, often there can be children involved. And this can make it all the more difficult and complex to separate, to untangle, to. To find your own way. And so I'm, I'm curious about. That's one half of the question. And then maybe after that you could talk about not only do people suffer from, you know, narcissistic partners or, or marriage partners or relationships, but children suffer from narcissistic parents. And so there's kind of two different things. They're both related to the kids, I guess, but two separate questions.

And parents can suffer from narcissistic children too. Yeah. Okay, so let's get back to the first one. The people that I found are the most traumatized and damaged are usually the people who came from a childhood of one narcissistic parent and a codependent, victimized, destroyed parent. Both are hugely unavailable. So here you have the message, and it's really interesting because when they start clearing the trauma of the narcissistic parent, then they get on to clearing the trauma of the victimized parent who was also unavailable, who also made it all about them, understandably, and also set them up as a template of teaching them to hang on to relationships at your own self destruction. So, and I went through this, and so many of us have been through this. We think staying for the child and all of their, you know, whatever they have as a kid is the best thing for them. It's not. Okay. The most important thing that we can teach our children is to value their soul. Because when you value your soul, no matter what you lose from a material point of view, you will rebuild it tenfold. I haven't seen that just happen in my own life. I've seen it happen in dozens. I also know that when you parallel parent, you cannot co parent with a narcissist. It's impossible. They don't cooperate and they use the children as fodder to get narcissistic supply from you, you have to parallel parent. You have separating parenting arrangements. You have to take your hands off and put it in the hands of source God. You have to be the parent who is letting go of your trauma and filling yourself with light and leading the way for your children. And what we find in our beautiful community is that we have little kids that are four and five even who are being parallel parented, who gravitate towards the source filled parent who was starting to lay boundaries with the narcissist. They're not taking it on, they're learning through example. Yeah, other people can be nasty and horrible and unconscious, but that doesn't mean I have to take it on or even have it as my reality. It just. So these children are actually learning the most incredible boundaries and self definition and their inner circle understanding of their values and truth from a very, very early age. Rather than getting the message, hand your soul and your energy field and your power away to somebody and try and get them to love you. You know, the parents where the people who get the most damaged, they split up and the victimized parent then stresses and traumatized about the child and tells them how bad the other parent is and what they're missing out on and why they should be this and why should they should be that and really runs the risk of childhood alienation. Massively. They could lose their kids 100% and also too sets their children up for massive trauma patterns in the future. So we're really passionate about that in our community. Very passionate. We have lots of parents who are narcissistic abuse recovery program members who also parallel parent who also are in our community getting coaching and support from our super thrivers and thrivers and moderators who have been down this track and are doing beautifully with their children.

This is so incredibly helpful and enlightening.

You know, you're already implying this in the process of recovery, but someone who's, you know, in that process of recovery from being in a toxic relationship, a narcissistic relationship. I would imagine there's a whole journey of learning to trust again and how to form healthy relationships or even how to, you know, manifest a healthy relationship in your life, how to attract, you know, a healthy relationship into your life. You know, you talked before about moving slowly and checking things out carefully, but it's also about who we're being. There's something about who we're being is going to massive act who we attract into our life, right?

Massively. And what I love about, you know, the thriver principles is we learn and it's not even important to trust other people. It's about trusting yourself. So I'm going to give you another really great example. When I was dating, there was a guy. I'm on a third date, and it's checking all the boxes, but I don't know him yet. I'm on a third date. And anyway, which is what happens. He started talking. His guard had come down, so he was talking about his work colleagues in a knucky way, really judging them. And it felt off in my body. I've gone to the bathroom, I've come back. And he said, so how's that third date going? And I said, can't. Let's say his name was Joe. I said, look, Joe, you know, the way you talk about your work colleagues, I found it really demeaning. I was honest. And he went from all mushy to, how dare you speak to me like that right now? He didn't even need to pop off that much. He could have just. Just spun it and said, well, you know, what you said three sentences ago wasn't nice either. Like, rather, you know what I'm saying? Like, right? Because now the old me would have gone to the bathroom and I would have gone, oh, that felt off in my body. But I would go down. He's probably just tired. Everybody can say things like that. He's just so awesome. That's what I would have done. But since thriving, I've learned I didn't have to fear anybody. All I have to do is show up, speak up, and I've healed out those fears. I call them the fear of crap, criticism, rejection, abandonment, or punishment. If I just speak up, and if I'm myself, I've healed those childhood fears and past fears and epigenetic fears. So I would. And for me, I call it the rubbish just took itself out. Was simple. It was so funny that night because I got in the car and I'm punching the air and I'm like. And I rang a girlfriend. I'm like, I'm so excited. I had the best date. And I told her. And she goes, I think that's great. And I said, you know why? Because the old me would have just imagined that away, made excuses. I could have just wasted three to four years of my life on this person. And I am so excited that I can look after me just by being real and honest.

Wow, that's so great. So the question I reframing the question I'd asked you before would be much better. So how do we learn to trust ourselves again in Relationship, right, Trust, inner development and healing.

And when we're in the lens of an old love code, it's like women who, you know, the people I love me are unavailable. They get unavailable guys and then they'll make excuses. Oh, look, he's busy. He's just busy. It works too much in his life or it's his past relationship. When you heal out that love code, pick up that trauma of that painful trauma, let it go and bring in source, you reset to a true self. And a true self won't accept that. You would say to that guy, joe, you know, I only date people whose actions match their words. I don't date unavailable people. And then you shut up and listen to what he says because everybody could make mistakes. He could go, you know what? You're so right and you don't deserve that and I'm not going to do it again. Or he could do the spin, which means that he is not an available guy and he cannot validate you and step up. So rubbish just took itself out. It becomes so easy when. But if you don't heal it, you are gaslighting yourself. You make excuses to stay in your program until it's healed out and gone and then you reset as a true self. He would never put up with it.

It.

Wow. So.

You know, it seems like you're speaking kind of at the largest, you know, quantum level, if you will, spiritual level. The, you know, these are teachers that show up in our life on that doesn't justify how they are or, or diminish the abuse. But on, on some level, the, this is how we learn some of the most profound lessons if, if we, if we somehow awaken to it. And so I would think it, maybe at some point in your life you could even get to the point of be gratitude, have some gratitude for that aspect of it. Which again doesn't justify how that person was showing up. And at the same time, it seems like, you know, really kind of severe narcissism. Those folks, when you do kind of pull their covers, the response you get can almost be demonic.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah.

Oh for sure. Just speaking to that first thing you said late. You couldn't give me $50 trillion to go back to my life even before I met him, because I always had, you know, anxiety and depression. I was always in battle. I was always over functioning. I was always codependent. I was always terrified about what people thought of me. I was not free, but I thought it was normal.

It's normal, but it's not natural. And it was because of unhealed trauma in my body that was setting me up into those kinds of conditions.

Yeah.

And I think it's helpful to frame this to. You know, you mentioned before, this is the human condition. I mean this is the journey we're all on. I mean there's no, there's no trauma free human life.

No.

And you know, this is, this is the journey we're all on.

And, and we could argue that this is what's going on on a global scale. It's not even a micro scale, it's a macro scale. It's everywhere. So the real question is, are we free to be a source self? Are we free to be in this world but not of this world, generating more of a fifth dimensional reality which is about unity consciousness and well being and life force. Are we doing that or are we stuck in separation? Three dimensional consciousness which is pain, fear, lack and disease. This is what the narcissistic conversation is actually all about.

Wow.

Well, this has been incredibly valuable and insightful and just there's so many dots are connecting for me in my own life experience and I'm finding incredibly helpful and I'm sure there's a lot of dots connecting for a lot of folks in our audience right now and I really encourage them to learn more about your work. How do people find out more about your work and your community?

Yeah, sure. Well, you can come over to my website which is melanietoniaevans.com and if you want to have a look at the nap, you know, community and the NARP program, that's always my highest suggestion because that gets you healing properly. Well when I say properly at that quantum deep inner level. And I've actually never fleet seen anything else humbly that has worked apart from the inner somatic emotional subconscious work for narcissistic abuse victims. I, I don't see other things work. So that's Melanie. Tonyevans.com forward/n for Nelly, A for Apple, R for Robert, P for Peter. Nup. And you can find out all about the nap program.

Wow, thank you so much Melanie for being part of our summit and bringing so much wisdom and so much value to the conversation we're having about self care. Just really appreciate it and wish you all the best.

Thank you Fleet. It's been a joy.

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