August 18 - Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen - Full - White Rec

Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen. My name is Heather Hester, and I am excited to be with you to transform the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. Wherever you are on this journey right now, In this moment in time, you are not alone. So today is part 2 of my interview, my conversation with Connor, and we are going to do things a little bit differently than we did in part 1. We were trying a little experiment in part 1, and we didn't love the way it turned out. So we're going to do things a little bit differently today in that I'm going to ask Connor some questions. And he's going to talk from there, and then I will share some of my thoughts at the end, and we'll see if, if we like this better this time. So Connor, thank you so much for agreeing to do this and for helping me brainstorm and wanting to reach out and help and share your story and your journey and your experiences and just everything that you've been through and that you've learned in these past few years. So thanks so much for doing this. And we are going to start off. So where we left off last time was Connor leaving for California. For Newport Academy, which was, or which is, an intensive residential treatment facility that is really for intensive mental health struggles. It's very small, it's academic, it's obviously in Newport, California, and Connor was there for about 8 weeks, 7 weeks-ish. Okay, so we're gonna start there. Connor's gonna share with us a little bit of what that transition was like, and we will, we will go from there. So thanks for being here, Connor.

Of course. Um, yeah, so I think, uh, Newport, like, I mean Objectively, I think that's the right word. Objectively, like, it was a very, like, wonderful place, a wonderful program. You know, I was definitely not in the headspace to appreciate, you know, it in all of its beauty and whatever. Like, you know, we were literally— we had— it was a house. I mean, it was two houses, but the house that I was, you know, stayed at, it was kind of like on top of a hill and and it was like this little like gated area overlooking like, you know, the valley. And it's like we had a pool in the backyard, like it was this wonderful bougie little place. But like I said, you know, this was like 2 days after I tried to like kill myself. So I wasn't really in the headspace to, you know, appreciate that for its entirety. But— oops, sorry, my Siri turned on. But You know, it was something where I remember at the time, at the time my biggest concern was I have, you know, I left the beginning of November and I was like, I have to be back by Christmas. You know, all else, you know, if nothing else, I need to be out by Christmas. So that was kind of just like my mindset throughout the entire experience. So I think it was much more like I saw this experience, like I saw a lot of other things, like I saw therapy before, like it was kind of something where, you know, there's clearly there's a system established for how you're supposed to progress through the program. And, you know, there's certain checkpoints you have to reach. And so that's how I saw it. It's like, I saw it as like, this is, you know, I can, I can, I can game the system for, you know, for lack of better words and like just rush through it and then I'll be out in no time and it'll be fine. I thought that was working. And, you know, like I was, fully doing whatever I could to just like, you know, get to the end of the program. But they're like reached a point where my therapist there kind of caught on and they also had like a counselor. So it was like two separate people and they kind of caught on to that, that I was like, you know, I wasn't, I was really just trying to get out, which is understandable. But they kind of, you know, there was like a certain point where every week they had like this thing, there was like different stages of the program. And so like with each stage, each progressive stage, you got more like privileges, you know, basically just like you're more likely to be discharged, which was kind of the end goal. And so I had kind of like, you know, I did all the work that I needed to do to finish it. And so I just needed to have my therapist and my counselor approve it, but they kind of, there came a point where they kind of just stopped approving it because I was clearly just trying to game the system. And that was like the first turning point where it was just like, I kind of realized like, you know, I, I tried so hard to be in control of the entire situation and it was something where I was entirely powerless over, uh, you know, how I progressed in the program other than like how I was growing and changing, which is something that I wasn't organically doing. Um, so I think that was like the first kind of smack in the face of like, so I can't, you know, like I can't micromanage everything to my liking and Yeah, so that's kind of long-winded and there was a lot to that, but I don't know where you want to go from there.

No, I think that's really good. I think, and I think that's really, uh, a powerful realization that you, you know, realize that just checking the boxes, you know, that was kind of the superficial, right? That you weren't doing the internal work that you needed to do. To, you know, obviously your goal was to get out of there, right? But to really work through what you were struggling with, you know. And I think too, part of this was you, you know, and this obviously went on from, you know, day one, and you're still you know, working through it now, but the whole coming out process was part of this too. And you so were, you know, at that point were like, I've done it, right? I'm done, I came out, check, done. And, um, didn't really want to talk about it and, and didn't really want to talk about, you know, the, the harder stuff. And so I think that was a really, really that was a really tough place, you know. And as, yeah, you know, from the parent point of view, so, you know, Steve and I— Connor's therapist that he was talking about, so he was our family therapist, and he— we had weekly video sessions with Connor and the therapist. And then every other weekend, Steve and I flew out there for family sessions. So I think that we were out there, what, 4 or 5 times. Yeah, in the time that you were there and for these family weekend sessions. And, um, you know, it was a huge— we were learning so much also, um, you know, not only about mental health and in general, but, you know, what you were really struggling with and more, you know, base things that you're struggling with. And then also recognizing you know, that you're just angry and that you just, you know, you were so focused on that singular goal of getting out of there. And I remember, and we wanted you home. And, you know, remember that, you know, the kids were doing the countdown to Christmas, we were doing the countdown to Christmas. And the point that, you know, they came to us and said, you Yeah, he's, he's not going to be ready to come home by Christmas. And, um, and then of course we also were having, you know, a whole other side of issues where, you know, we were struggling with insurance coverage and, um, and ultimately being able to financially keep Connor there, which, you know, we loved what they were doing at Newport. We loved what you know, we could see some movement, we could see some growth. And, and what ended up happening was that we, in a very short period of time, learned that we needed— we were going to have to pull him from there because of coverage. So then it became the quick, okay, what do we do? They're telling us he can't come home and he's not ready to come home, but we don't have any place We don't know what to do. So it was this very quick, like, here are, you know, places to look at, to interview people, to consider. We just started looking at therapeutic boarding schools all over the country. What, you know, we really wanted a place that would— where Connor could continue to grow academically, because that's something that he, you know, we knew would be good for his self-esteem and just for— he'd you know, he likes that. But we also, we wanted somebody who understood, um, the coming out process. Somebody— and it didn't really matter to us whether the person was gay or straight, we just needed somebody who understood and worked with LGBTQ kids. And so that was a big piece of what we looked for as well. And so ultimately we ended up deciding on, um, Montford, Montford Hall, which is in Asheville, North Carolina. So, uh, we, we took how many days? 5 days. We, you know, with the entire family flew out to California. We checked Connor out of— it was on Christmas Day, actually, and got him, you know, took him out of Newport. We spent 3 or 4 days. Yeah, yeah, together as a family, which everybody warned us against. Everybody said, you know, absolutely do not do that, take him from point A and put him in point B. And Steve and I are like, no, this is our kid, and we, you know, we know him, and we all need that time together. All 6 of us, for all different reasons, need that time together. It was so lovely in so many ways. It was so difficult in so many ways because there, you know, of course, all of us just wanted to be like, forget it, we'll just bring him home. You know, let's— we just want him home. We will figure it out. And so we— Steve and Connor on New Year's Eve Day, I think it was maybe. Or the day before, maybe. Anyway, um, flew from— we've— I flew home with the other kids, they flew to Asheville, and, um, Connor moved into the next stage. So would you like to talk about Montford from your perspective first?

Yeah, I mean, yeah. The objectively, once again, the description of the whole experience from point A to point B and all that was very nice. I think, you know, again, from my perspective on that, I was just— I remember, you know, you guys had like— it was probably, yeah, it was like the last week that I was there, like the second to last week I was there, that I found out about this and Awwful. Awful.

Awful. Awful. Awful. Awful. Awful.

Awful. Awful.

Awful.

Right, the family therapy session was like, "Yeah, so—" You know, because I had been under the assumption that it was like, "Oh, this is like my last family therapy session, so like there's a good chance I'm gonna find out when I'm leaving." And then it was like, "Well, actually, we don't think you're ready for that." So needless to say, I wasn't thrilled. I was actually quite resentful and stayed quite resentful for a minute. I, yeah, we had our little Christmas family time, which was nice, but also very much like, well, 72 hours. And, you know, but anyway, get to Montford and I have, I mean, at this point I have very mixed feelings about Montford because originally, like, you know, as soon as I had left and especially while I was in it, but like, I was so resentful towards Montford for just like, for a number of reasons. It was like, just a very unenjoyable experience. But like, you know, now that I've had time to reflect on it and, you know, just think about my time there, it was, there definitely were benefits to it. It wasn't necessarily the design benefits of the program, but benefits that I had gotten nonetheless. But yeah, I mean, it was very much like— I remember the whole issue. My original issue with it was it was much less— the first place, Newport, was much more therapeutic, you know, therapy-centric and mental health. And this place was much more— or Montford is much more Drugs and substance abuse. So everyone else there was there for some form of substance abuse. At this point, I had smoked weed and drank alcohol. So I was, wasn't, I felt kind of out of place almost and was very adamant about, no, I'm not an addict. Like I'm just here because of my depression. Again, I remained like very stubborn that like I wasn't here and I wasn't gonna be here for long. Um, and that was the other thing. That was the other, like, uh, original, um, kicker was the, you know, so once again, like this whole experience, as my mom had said, was like incredibly rushed to get me from like one place to another. And going into the program, you know, I believe you guys were told, you know, like it would be, you know, roughly, I, I, under the assumption that I would be able to be in and out there in like, you know, 6 to 8 weeks, that would all really need to like kind of get me to a point where I'd be able to go home. Little did we know that the average stay for the program was 10 to 12 months and that they, you know, kind of expected everyone to adhere to that pretty strongly. So I think realizing, you know, 8 weeks in, 6, 8 weeks in, that I wasn't gonna be here for 6 to 8 weeks, I was— I remember being incredibly frustrated and, you know, I didn't talk to you guys for a couple weeks. You know, we had our— I had my my 20-minute family call once a week that I could, you know, I had the choice to take. A couple weeks I was so mad I didn't take it. And no, you did not. Didn't answer the letter. It was very dramatic, but understandable.

I mean, understandable. And, um, as much as we were like heartbroken, we understood because we were equally frustrated that there had been such an incredible not only an incredible miscommunication on timeframe, that that was not made crystal clear, but also on when we would first be able to see you. And, you know, we were going from being able to see you every other weekend and work through this to every other month. 2 months, 9 weeks until we saw you, 8 weeks.

Yeah.

So that was really, really difficult. And then I'm just gonna say one more thing really quick right now, and then I'll let you kind of go back into it. But just thinking, you know, Connor's just mentioned how he, you know, was frustrated because he had gone from this place that really was focusing on his mental health, and he was really making some good progress as far as working through some things, and then going to a place that was much more substance use focused. And that was something that we found so incredibly frustrating the entire time he was there, because we have always believed— and I, I both still to this day believe, rightfully so— that substance use has not been the issue. It's what, what are the underlying causes? Why is their substance use? Why? And there was never that— I didn't ever feel like there was that effort to uncover the why. And so Steve and I felt the whole time like we were just beating our head against the wall with, you know, all the different therapists there to, you know, it was just this total disconnect and, you know, what we saw to be the issues. So anyway, go ahead, I'll let you jump back in. Sorry about that. Yeah, no, for sure.

I mean, like, I'm sure we could talk about Montfort specifically for a very long time, but, uh, you know, because it was 5 months of back and forth drama, um, but I guess just like the big things that stick out to me still. The first was I remember my therapist that I had there, like being at Newport, like I had my family therapist, I had a personal therapist as well. I remember like, and a counselor. So like I had a therapist, personal therapist, and a counselor, and I connected both with both of them like pretty well. There was like a good like therapeutic dynamic, if that makes sense. Getting to Montford, I was paired with a therapist and I hated her. Like she was, maybe not hate, but like she was the worst. Um, and like, it was just like, it kind of just was like, you know, the, the cherry on top of the whole experience. You know, it was very much like weird having, you know, I was living in a house with like, I don't know, it was kind of like 10 to 15 other, you know, teenage guys. And the entire time I was there, 5 months or so, I was the only gay person there. There were several kids who were kind of like, you know, closeted or bi, but I was like the only one that was like very openly gay. And for a lot of kids, that was like the first time like encountering a gay person, and which is kind of crazy. But, and then also just like with the kids who were closeted, or not you know, or but like, you know, questioning, whatever, were like, I kind of became like, I don't know how to put it into words, but basically there was a lot of desire for experimentation that I did not hold the same desire. But it was just like, it was a very weird part of the experience with being like, my understanding of my sexuality did grow in a lot of ways there. You know, I had met probably, you know, one of the most amazing people I've crossed paths with was my therapist, or was— I don't even know what his job there was, but like mentor, director person, Daniel. And he was like kind of like my first like quote-unquote gay therapist. And like it was just a lot of like, I don't know, he was just very wise and very calm and very knowledgeable. Wise and knowledgeable is the same thing. Very kind. Like, I've kind of— patient. Patient. Thank you. Yeah, like, just like very understanding. So it was really great to meet him and to like have that relationship there, um, because he left around the same time that I did. But, um, that was definitely a great part. And like You know, I guess, god, yeah, there's just so much like I could talk about, but like, I don't know if it's necessarily relevant. The parts that I appreciated the most was my ability to kind of like, I was able to develop, uh, personally, um, in my world perspective and, um, in my sexuality very individually without, you know, kind of external influences. Like, yeah, you know, we were watched 24/7 by adults, but like there was, it was a lot more of just like I was able to kind of like see things and understand them without any like, you know, bias or influence of others. So like I feel like a lot of my like core beliefs and worldviews kind of started there. You know, my understanding of my sexuality, my confidence in my own skin. You know, there was like the first like gay like youth group that I joined. And so it was like just all these kids and North Carolina. So it was like, you know, these kids came from like miles away to just like come to this youth group once a week, just like, you know, come to the safe space and, you know, just talk and hang out. And it was just like, it was a very empowering thing because, you know, I was still, you know, I was just figuring out what like being gay meant. So it's like I barely had any understanding of like what gender meant to me and what sexuality meant to me more than just like I like guys. And these kids had such deep understanding and openness and just had like, I thought they had figured it out. And it was just such an eye-opening experience. And I went to my first gay prom, the only gay prom I went to. But that was also just another little very sweet experience. All these cute little gay kids in their tuxedos. Dresses and whatnot. And it was just, yeah, like I'm kind of going in 12 different directions. But, you know, looking back on it, there were equal parts, you know, there was a lot of bad and a lot of counterproductivity, but at the same time there was a lot of like positive, empowering, improving, whatever, like moments. So yeah.

Yeah, no, I think that's really good. I don't think you were all over the place. I think that, I mean, it was, there was a lot that happened in those 5 months. Yeah. And, and there, and I think that over time you've been able to really appreciate the good things that did come out of it. And I think, like you said, one of the things that, you know, over time I've been able to appreciate is that you were able to be away and slow down and really just focus on you and figuring yourself out. And I am so grateful to Daniel and to Doug as well, and for just guidance and for being there for you and for being listening, you know, listening, hearing you, seeing you. There were a number of things that occurred that Steve and I were able to finally say, okay, this is when we're bringing Connor home. And I mean, essentially you finished your junior year curriculum there, and that was one thing we wanted to make sure that you, you know, successfully completed junior year, both with, you know, to their requirements, to Nutria's requirements, because that was a huge back and forth. And, and you'd be very clear that you did want to go back to Nutria, and so that was part of making sure that that could happen.

And, um, I was thinking when I said that, but Well, you know, we live and we learn, right?

Right. So Connor was able to come home on June 9th, 2018, and so we're gonna kind of move into him coming home and his transition home as well as his transition into his senior year. So do you want to share a little bit about that?

So coming home was, yeah, like beginning, beginning, middle of June, which was great. You know, I was able to come back. It was like right before all the Pride stuff had started, you know, parade and all. So I was able to get back for that, which was really nice. I was very excited about that. And I remember, you know, 'Great to be back, friends and family.' It was this whole, you know, just like nice to be in real life again. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess like the rest of the summer really like passed without too much incident. I mean, going to New York for sure, New York City for the first time, um, and I never really like— I liked the city, I liked Chicago, but like New York was really never on my radar as anything I was thinking about. Like when I was thinking colleges, because that was something I would just have to start doing. I was thinking like I was gonna go West Coast. I wanted to go West Coast and that was it. But as it turned out, you know, visiting New York, I loved it. You know, there was so much about it that I loved. I vibed really well with it. And, you know, seeing New York University, just how beautiful the city was, and just like the culture there, and just like Granted, this was like— we did very much the tourist tour, so we got to see all the basics, but still it was like very much something that, you know, I appreciated, and that definitely put like New York University on my radar for applying. But yeah, I mean, other than that, the summer passed without too much incident— incidents— and started senior year, and I remember that being pretty hard. You know, I'd kind of forgotten how just brutal it is, the social— like, the social whatever dynamic there is. And being gone for 7 months and having a lot of people know where I was for 7— or yeah, for 7 months was like not great. You know, not like anyone really openly said much about it, like, other than my close friends, and But like, it was still kind of like this weird energy, I guess. And then also like something that I could talk about at Infinitum is the fact that in Utria, you know, being gay, being anything that's not straight white Christian male, you know, you're tolerated, you're not accepted. It's really like, that was really difficult to come to that realization that like, a lot of people that I was friendly with before I came out had really distanced themselves from me and from my friends. And just like, it was very clear that who I was and who, just like that kind of whatever, was not something they wanted to associate with, which is on them. But it was still very, off-putting. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I kind of like for that first semester it would again pass without too much incidents. Um, it just was, you know, realizing like, God, I need to get out of here. Um, whatever happens, I need to get out of here. I need to do well. But yeah. Yeah.

You had a very strong first semester. I mean, you, you know, that was, getting— being on the Habitat board was huge. Oh, right. Yeah. Um, and, um, you know, really first semester of senior year is all about applying to colleges, writing your essays, um, all of that. And you, you know, you had basically decided that NYU was your— it was your top choice. That's what you really wanted. And, um, and Thankfully, you know, you got in with early decision and, you know, you, you got a win, which you, you know, so badly needed, you know, something to just work and that did. And, you know, so very grateful for that because you really, really needed that and, and you earned it, um, but you also needed it. So I think that was super, super important because you were working very, very hard once again to manage everything that was coming at you and everything that you were still, you know, working through. And a lot of that was not wanting to deal with what you are working through, right? As you look back and you reflect on how you were feeling then, it's so easy to understand why you had the feelings of the social isolation. And you've talked about, and a lot of this I know comes definitely more in your second semester, but feeling hopeless. These are all so understandable. You know, please, if you want to add on to that, please do. This would be a great place to jump back in if you'd like.

I definitely— I definitely like— that was probably the most significant thing at the time was getting accepted, a decision to NYU. It's like, you know, like you said, a huge win that I definitely needed. I really don't know if I didn't what would have happened, but got it. That was great. Kind of started to feel, you know, definitely was feeling the social isolation, old mental health stuff coming back, really just like, you know, depression and just like that, you know, and rolling into second semester, really just like that winter. It's such, you know, like I've said a couple of times, like it's The environment of high school on its own, but then just like New Trier, like, is so just— it weighs down on your conscience so much. And just like, everything is so— everything just became so unenjoyable by senior year. Um, it was by second semester, like, I kind of felt like, okay, you know, everything they've done at New Trier was just to get me into a good college, which, you know, I've done, so I'm done. Um, and you know, while I was like, I never really said that explicitly, I think I'd kind of given myself that permission to check out. And second semester I was kind of like, just checked out, you know, I gave a little effort towards the beginning, but school really just like stopped mattering. Like it just became a place where I was just miserable all the time. Like, you know, I had my friends, but like, they weren't, you know, large in number. Um, and, you know, at a school like that where it is so massive, it was like, it just, I felt very cut off and very just like, was mentally ready to graduate at the beginning of the year. So just like, I kind of just felt burned out and I was kind of burned out. Second semester I started, uh, I'd gotten closer with one guy and not at school, but like just, you know, who I was hanging out with a lot. And that like kind of provided a nice like sense of consistency and at least something that like I kind of could look forward to like on a day-to-day basis and like everyday life. So it just made like everything a little more palatable. And you know, that was, that was nice for a couple months. Yeah. So I mean, I, so I had broken up we're not broken up, but like I kind of like separated or whatever. We kind of like went our separate ways, um, with the guy who I was kind of more involved with. And you know, that wasn't great. And I think, you know, I'd kind of like— I'd just been getting to this like really just checked out, bored, done, just like with with my— with life at that point. Like, it was just everything was so boring, and Nutria was such a life suck that like there was just— there was just nothing that was like really giving me like happiness. And you know, I felt totally just like isolated and cut off from everyone. You know, I had like you know, a couple friends to talk to, but like no one that I could really talk to about all the stuff that I was feeling. As the school year progressed at that point, I kind of started looking to other places and places that I kind of like gone in the past for connection and community, um, and which subsequently kind of led back to like using apps and websites and stuff to, you know, find people and to, you know, kind of engage. And it just, it kind of became like a replacement. The connection and the community I found in there became a replacement for, or fulfilled the need that I had, you know, from the void of school and life at that point. Unfortunately, you know, the communities that I had kind of became engaged with were very, very heavily connected to substance use and hard substance use. And it's that, you know, like a lot of people think, you know, when you mess with that kind of stuff, like you can do it once and then you'll be fine and never again. I think I was naive to think the same thing. And I guess very, very, very quickly found that that was not the case and that was something that I probably shouldn't have done. Started engaging with these people, started using, started doing all this, and things spiraled out of control very quickly. You know, without going into like too much detail, just the situations I was putting myself in, like the risks I was taking, and the, just the stuff I was subjecting my body to. Just was so awful and toxic and whatever, but like it gave me this rush and it gave me this excitement and it gave me stories to tell. And I knew for a fact that like, you know, once again, no one else in my school was doing this. You know, this was far more badass than anything I could be doing with these kids in my school. And, you know, I felt far more desired than I'd ever felt, you know, at school and like in any social circle. So it gave me, you know, even though it was toxic and destroying me from the inside out, it was— it still gave me a sense of community and belonging in a twisted way. So it fulfilled that need. And I think I wouldn't say I was able to keep it in check while I was still in school, but it was— there was— I still feel like there was still a level of like control that I had over it because I was kind of just crawling towards the finish line at Nutrir. In every meaning of the word. So yeah, I mean, like once I finally graduated, which I think at that point everyone was kind of just like, thank God, myself included. That's very accurate. You know, it was such a nightmare and still was leaving Nutrir kind of just allowed me to spiral even further.

My observation— I mean, I've obviously had a million observations of, you know, what we were feeling at the time, and, you know, and now in retrospect what we know. Listening to you kind of say it, it is interesting that you really were kind of back in the same place, right? So all the work that you had done Newport and Montford kind of was put on hold. And this is— this was how you knew how to survive in this environment, the environment of Nutria, right? And how to cope. And this was, you know, kind of all went back to those like basic, really basic coping mechanisms. Where were you mentally in that at that time, right? It was very very similar places, right? Even though it was a year or two later, Steve and I were once again trying to figure out, you know, because he had transitioned home so well, because first semester had gone so well, um, because we were, you know, definitely, you know, looking to the future of, you know, him going away to NYU, all of a sudden we had this space of time that was 4 or 5 months where he was really struggling again and really back in that just low place, right? And trying to figure out, okay, how do we, how do we help this kid? How do we, you know, pull him out of here, right? And how do we help him, you know, give him the tools so he can pull himself out of here? Because, you know, that was the other huge fear for us was he's going— he's moving to— he's not just going away to college, he's moving to New York City, you know, one of the biggest cities in the world, and, you know, 3, 4 months. And so how do we know that he's gonna be okay there and be able to survive there? And so these, these are all of the, you know, kind of feelings from a parent standpoint that we were going through at the time. Of, you know, what do we, what do we do? How do we help this kid? And, you know, and all along he, you know, had been seeing a therapist. At one point he was seeing two different therapists. And, you know, I'll let you talk about that too, as far as like kind of how that played, played in all of this. It was scary in a very different way than it had been scary before you went away to Newport. Mm-hmm. Um, I think more because at this point we were trying to figure out how to prepare you and if you were actually going to be prepared to go away to college. And so this was, you know, this was about a year ago. Right. And, um, it's crazy, like, thinking about that right now because, you know, where you are right now and where you were then are two vastly different places, which is why we're able to talk about this so calmly. Just FYI, everybody who's listening, I know we probably both sound super calm, and, um, and it is only because we've we have walked through this, as you know, I've walked through this as Connor's mom. Connor has actually walked through all of this and, and, and faced not only these experiences but has then gone back and faced a lot of this in, in therapy and talking about it so he can get to a place where he's, you know, where he is right now. So I will stop and let Connor jump back in and talk about, um, just a couple more things, which really I think he wanted— you know, we really wanted to talk about the experience of, you know, how you got to the place of being like, okay, you know, where we were all like, you can do this, you, you can go to NYU and it's going to be awesome. And I know you also really wanted to talk about or touch on the role that therapy played for you at this, you know, kind of in this 12-month period of time.

So yeah, I think I'll touch on that. Oops, sorry, I totally just cut you off. No, you're good. I think I'll touch on that first and then kind of like, you know, ending on where I was right before I left. But yes, I guess on a more— on a lighter subject, with therapy, you know, I had said, like, I remember the first, you know, section we did of this, you know, I'd said I'd really had— I didn't really have a relationship with therapy. I didn't see it as a legitimate, like, you know, way to deal with my issues. But I think that quickly, quickly changed. Especially at Newport, you know, getting like basically like a team of therapists and like therapists that like, I mean, clearly they were much more well-equipped to deal with someone like me and like with the needs that I had at that time. So it kind of made me realize like, okay, like there is, I mean, A, there's a ton of work that I need to do, but B, it's very, very possible to do this work. With these people. So yeah, I mean, there it was great at Newport to kind of like realize like, okay, this is actually like a viable tool. And I guess that was further reinforced at Montford, but more so reinforced the fact that like I will, you know, I basically respond much better to be able to talk to like, you know, having like a gay male therapist being a gay male, it was very, very helpful just because, you know, they could understand, you know, what I was going through, what I was dealing with in a unique way that others couldn't necessarily. And so that was really helpful, and I kind of like realized like, okay, like, you know, I can be real with my therapist, you know, they will most likely get it. So that was like a good place to be, and leaving Montford, that's kind of like one of the agreements that like it would be very heavy therapy, which was like, I was fine with that because that was kind of life for the past 7 months. Uh, like I had to— or sorry, what were you gonna say?

No, I was just gonna say I'm gonna jump in really quick because that was such a great thing, a great realization, and it was such a like for us like, uh, oh my goodness, why didn't we realize this before moment that of course having, you know, a gay male therapist for him would, you know, would be so beneficial. And so, you know, prior to, to, you know, Connor coming home, I think I interviewed, I don't even know, maybe 5 different therapists myself and narrowed it down to, I think, 3 that when Connor came home I wanted him to interview them to figure out, because we, you know, we wanted it to be a good fit and a strong fit for him and somebody he felt like he could connect to, which was super, super, you know, super important if you're going to be, you know, vulnerable and work through some, some tough stuff. So that, that is, that is what we did. And I just giggle like thinking back to that and whoo, that was a process. But yeah, so sorry, I just wanted to throw that in there really quick.

Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, like you said it was definitely a process. But what I had ended up with, you know, it's kind of like between two therapists, Jamie and Josh, and Again, another Jamie, just kind of random. Anyway, yes, they're both gay and, you know, so that was, you know, that was one of the big selling points. But I had also kind of chosen because they both— I mean, it turned out that like they both had very different approaches to therapy, just in the way that they conducted sessions. One was definitely much more gentle, kind of like, you know, at your own pace, like kind of just like he was there kind of just like help me process what I wanted to process in the moment. Like it was much more like, oh, what's going— like what was— what happened this week? And so that was like, you know, that definitely like provided like a certain sense of comfort. But then the other therapist was much more— I don't know what the right word would be, but it was, it was a very strange dynamic. It worked for a couple months. It was very much more like he was kind of like, he would kind of tell me what to do or like what needed to be done to work through these issues. It was just much more like he was much more blunt. That's what it was.

And fair.

Like there was just like a very weird, like just the dynamic was very strange, but also again, but when I started using And I was like pretty transparent about it with him. His, you know, his response is basically, "Don't use." It's like, okay, that's really helpful except for the fact that, you know, that's not that easy. It's much easier, you know, it's a lot different than just not using. So we kind of split paths around that point, parted ways. And so I was just seeing, down to just seeing the one therapist. And I had ended up seeing him through the rest of the summer. Because even though I was like, I really, I could tell him everything that was going on and it was very like gentle and like, you know, kind of what I needed at that point. It like, it wasn't like I was, you know, making a bunch of big life discoveries or changes. It was kind of just him being, you know, me just going in and talking for an hour about how my life was falling apart and him kind of being like, 'it's okay,' you know, like, 'there, there,' you know, 'please just don't die before the next session,' which like, you know, to an extent was what he would say. So, you know, I had pretty, pretty low standards for life at that point in a lot of ways. But basically with therapy, it— like, I had come to realize I realized it pretty quickly, but like, I had come to appreciate how, you know, it really was what I was going to make of it. It's, you know, it's a time where I can be entirely vulnerable and, you know, I shouldn't be, you know, I, you know, technically shouldn't be judged for whatever I'm going to say. And, you know, that, that was something that was like really important. It was like, it was a safe space, you know, for lack of a better word. Right. And I could talk about this stuff, like when it did start to become heavier, like it was like, okay, this is the only place where I can really air this stuff out with like someone who could partially understand, which was helpful. So then I guess, yeah. So then, you know, kind of transitioning to around, you know, late July, early August of 2019, um, kind of being— I don't want to say it was a state of me being ready to leave because, I mean, I wasn't, but I was not gonna, you know, I wasn't gonna let that stop me, and I wasn't gonna let, you know, that come get in the way of me getting to New York. Um, you know, I'd kind of made a feeble attempt at, you know, convincing myself that, oh, you know, like, once, once I get to New York, you know, I'll stop this. Like, this is, you know, this is just, you know, because the environment I'm in is so toxic, you know. I'll stop using, you know, I'll be able to be clean when I get to New York. That, I guess that mindset was enough. And I think we were all, we, I'm gonna say we, I mean, my parents and me and my therapist were so like, kind of, I feel like just like so wanting for it to be okay. And like so wanting things to like, to feel good, to have any sort of like reassurance that like, yes, things can keep moving forward. I think we were all kind of just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, once he gets to New York, it'll be fine. Like, you know, it's part of the environment here, you know, like it's not going to be an issue there. And even though, you know, we maybe not would— maybe did not believe that, it was kind of like enough to ease our minds, I guess. But yeah, that was kind of the point we were at.

Yeah, I think that's— I mean, that's really, that's really accurate. And I think part of it too, like, from, from my perspective, and I think from Steve would say the same thing, is that, you know, we knew from, you know, talking to our therapists and talking to other parents whose kids had gone away to college that, you know, kids do all kinds of crazy things before they leave. And, and part of that is like this whole separation, and, and that's how they, you know, they separate from you, and this is all developmentally appropriate, and this is, you know, whatever, XYZ, you name it. And so I think we were all of this mind of, this is what's supposed to happen, he is ready, he, he can do this. He's got this. And, um, you know, as, as scary as it is to send your child off to college, no matter where they go, we knew it was important that he did go. So I think that's, that's definitely, you know, that's where we're going to leave it today is Connor leaving for NYU, unless you want to add anything else, Connor.

Uh, no, I think that's another great cliffhanger.

I think we've done a good job with that, right? Yeah, we're good. We're good.

Yeah, hangers, a good thing. Yeah, it's a good thing, you know, it's a good— it's a sufficient plot arc and we will reach a conclusion. Knock on wood.

But we will, we will, I promise you. You all are gonna have to wait another month, so hang in there. Um, but this, the— this is, this is a lot, and I give Connor Simic credit for walking through all of this again and being able to be really vulnerable and really honest, you know, for all of you. So Connor, thank you for doing that because I know that even for me, some of these, these things that we've, we've walked back through and as we've talked and planned have been really difficult to do. Just thank you. Thank you for sharing yourself with all of us, and know that you are touching people's lives and that people do appreciate this. So thank you. So this is, this is where we are going to leave you for today, and I just want to thank all of you for joining us and for listening. Just remember to, to breathe, to take that deep, deep calming breath that you know it's going to center you and then it's going to give you strength and it's going to give you clarity. You all know that I have been breathing through all of this, and so it is incredibly helpful. Just a reminder to please subscribe to and review Just Breathe on whatever platform you're listening to this podcast on. Please subscribe to my website to stay informed, chrysalismama.com. You can also sign up for my monthly newsletter there as well as access tons and tons of resources that I have available. If you are in need of a place to just chat with other parents and allies Check out my private Just Breathe Facebook community. There are a few questions to ask to get in there. It is, it is private and it is a safe space. And as always, please share with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone. Until next time.