Episode 102: Just Breathe: Parenting LGBTQ Teens with Yuval David | More Human More Kind

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am so happy you all are here today, and I am really, really excited about this conversation that you are about to listen in on. Um, my guest today is Yuval, and I've, I've just was practicing a little bit. It's a beautiful name.

Let's do that intro one more time. Yeah, you don't be timid with me and my name.

I was too timid?

Oh, so cute.

Okay.

I mean, even if you're using this as your intro, just say my name again.

Yuval.

There you go.

Yuval. There we go. I got it.

I have many goals in life, but a new one that just came up right now, I didn't know was a goal of mine until this moment, is for people to just, when they reference me, to do so with confidence and boldness. So yeah, let's give you a try.

Well, let's do that again then, because that was not confident or bold. It was— I am still trying to get the sound right in my head.

Just remember, ah, Yuval, or just say my name however you want to say it.

It's a name that's said by people in different places, and they all have their different accents and dialects and Well, it is a beautiful name, and I think that is something that actually this lends itself to so many different conversations of people being worried about saying things wrong, right? I mean, we could take that somewhere else, couldn't we?

Absolutely. But we can't be worried about what we— about everything that we do. If we do things from a good place, then go with it, then run with it. I mean, even if I pronounce your name Heather and you then correct me, or you choose not to because maybe you like that I call you Heather, um, or hey, hey, you know, actually that sounds pretty amazing.

That does. I might have to change my name now.

Queen Hiataher, warrior goddess. I think that needs to be your name, Hiataher. Oh my God, I see you with a sword and like— right, huge sword, like the kind that just nobody gets to use other than Hiataher.

Than me. Oh, I like that.

I think you— you— we now have your avatar.

I think so.

Oh, can you say Hiataher?

Oh goodness, Hiataher. Right? I knocked that right out of the park the first time.

I think, yeah, you should go with that even when you're, I don't know, when you're checking in at a hotel or when a telemarketer calls you and say, oh, I'm sorry, you mispronounced my name. It's, it's Heather Hester. Just have them say it. That would be great.

Wouldn't that be so much fun? And they have to say it like that. I think you need to be my branding manager.

With a bit of a growl. Heather Hester. Yeah, your turn. Do it. Come on, give us—

all right.

Hiata her.

I think, right?

Red hearing that. That was amazing. Hiata her.

I think so.

I like that.

All right, well, yeah, now this was an intro.

This was—

I mean, this was. And now Yuval. Yuval.

Great. Yeah, whatever. It's all good.

By the end, I'm gonna just be— it's gonna be 12 different ways that I've said it, and I'm gonna finally find the way that I like it.

Yeah, just out of my mouth. Life is an exploration, and we must continue to explore ourselves and allow other people to explore how they see us and define us and receive us. And, you know, here we go. We're using our names as a way to symbolize that type of exploration and We talk about the relationships that we have in life so often, and even those change. Relationships develop, and we need to let that development happen, because if something is stagnant, well, it's, it's boring. And life is too short to be boring. And even after life, things continue to change, you know. Decay happens, memories change and get passed on from one person to another, or one being to another, and Eventually we all turn into sand, and eventually trees, and the wind, and the air, and it is what it is. So hiata her. It's a pleasure to be speaking here with you, uh, as Yuval.

Yuval, I'm delighted to have you here, and I just—

I'm delighted to have, to, to, to have you here too, to be here with you and to be invited on your show. You know, you're doing, you're doing something with your life. You're using your life as a form of advocacy. You're sharing your journey, your path, and other people's journeys and other people's paths by, by being vulnerable to sharing yourself and, and what you and your family are and, and are becoming and are developing. So Yeah, thanks for doing that. I want everybody to do that.

I do too. I mean, that is definitely one of the reasons I do this, is to encourage others to, to do the same and to, to embrace all of it, not just the easy and the beautiful, but the messy as well.

And the messy is sometimes equally as beautiful, so Well, you know, as, as a, as a storyteller, which that's really the one— if I need to use one term to define everything that I do, it's probably that. You know, I work as, as an actor, as a filmmaker, as a director, as a news commentator, as a television host, but also as an activist and advocate. And throughout all of it I think of the story, the journey, the, the characters and the narratives that I'm imparting, and the audience who's receiving the information that I'm trying to share. What version of myself am I, am I sharing? I am all of me all the time, right? I can't cut any part of myself out when I choose to share a version of myself, and I will never let somebody cut part of me out part of me that they might not want or might not accept. I'm all of me. But how do I, how do I manipulate that message? How do I present what I want to present in a way that I think that they want to or are ready to receive it? Or do I present it in a way that they might not want to receive it, but in a way that I embrace the challenge, embrace the messiness, as you just spoke about? Because it's what is imperfect that is most compelling. It is what is most messy that resonates with more people.

That is 100% true. Um, and I think a lot of times that's where the growth happens, right? I mean, you can see light bulbs starting to go off.

I do. You, you look so much brighter. Look at this. You got brighter all of a sudden. Oh, wait, or are your light bulbs like the really old-school flash bulbs of cameras in the— I don't know what it was, like the '90s?

Whatever those were, where they'd burn out after one flash.

The one-time, yeah.

Yeah.

No, that's not you. You don't burn out after a flash, you just get brighter.

I do. I do.

You do. I mean, look, I really appreciate the name Just Breathe, right? The—

thank you—

the name that you're using here. And it's something that I try to do, especially when I'm feeling taxed and challenged and overwhelmed, which happens. I mean, lately it's been happening a lot, and I— yeah, I embrace it and I say, okay, Let me just center myself and just, and just breathe. And when I, when I try to help entertain, uplift, and inspire other people, which is my, one of my mantras, one of my brand statements of how I do everything I do, to entertain, uplift, and inspire. If I can entertain, uplift, and inspire myself, and all who I'm collaborating with, and all who I hope to have as my audiences, or, or the people who receive and absorb whatever it is that I'm doing. I try to do that. So when I, when I feel challenged in the process of entertain, uplift, and inspire, I just breathe and take that moment And right now I hear my microphone and the sounds. It's capturing every sound. And on one hand, it's making me extremely self-conscious. But on the other hand, it just— it is where I am. It is.

It's beautiful. I will tell you, it is beautiful. What's coming through to me is I'm rather captured in this moment, um, and it's, it's clear there's a— there's so much in what you're saying, and I'm so appreciative of it.

Good, because it's, it's real. The nervousness is, is there. This has been a day, it's been a, a week and a month, and however vague that is, it's everything you could imagine. The, the highs and the lows of life have been experienced. I found out today that a friend of mine passed away.

Oops.

And I found that out between having to be on the news commenting about the SAG-AFTRA strike and what's happening in Hollywood right now. And before that, I was speaking about the plight of LGBTQ people in non-democratic countries. So after talking about LGBTQ people, hearing about my friend, and then having to speak about SAG-AFTRA, and having a glass of water, and now speaking with you, um, my head has kind of, uh, I don't know, my head has been spinning. And it's— my head isn't spinning. I feel like I need to take more breaths. And it's not about It's not about not having a conversation with you or not— or saying no to something else. It's saying this is the reality. This is the reality of life when we engage in a lot and we— and when we allow ourselves to be engaged. That's not to say that we shouldn't take a break, that we shouldn't pause. And believe me, I am going to take some breaks and pauses today. Um, but it's reminding people that sometimes life— not sometimes, always— life happens. Life always happens. And the more you're connected to the light, to life, the more life you're going to feel. The more you, you pour yourself into life and allow yourself to be that vulnerable being who is permeable, but from which your bravery and your courage comes from, the more you're going to feel it. The more you will need to take that break and breathe. The more you'll need to be in the moment with complete action and still just breathe. Um, that's, uh, something that, that I, I get from the, the title of your podcast here. And it's something I remind myself in those challenging moments, whether I choose them or whether I don't.

Yes. Yes. Well, it allows us to keep moving and it allows— I think that moment of pause is so valuable and sometimes can do more for us than 8 hours of sleep, or—

Can it though? Because 8 hours is amazing.

I mean, it really is. I mean, don't get me wrong, but sometimes we don't have that available to us, right? Um, it may not be possible for many reasons. So having, you know, there were a million reasons why I named the podcast Just breathe. But that is certainly one of them because it is something that we can do at any time and it is always available.

It is always available to just breathe. I developed a habit where, which I try to impart onto other people because it's really worked for me. When I take those moments, whether you call it the, the just breathe moment, or taking a beat, or centering yourself, or a term I like from, from the film and television world, going back to one. Go back to one, go back to your mark. We're starting at the beginning of the scene. So in that moment, in that beat, in the moment where you just breathe and absorb the world around you and the world within you. Choose in that moment to immediately bless that moment, yourself, and the environment and the world around you. Acknowledge that moment and say to yourself, I have no idea what is going to happen next. I can plan, I can do the work, I can do the preparation for whatever is going to happen next, but I don't actually know what is going to happen because I am living and I'm alive and I'm awake and I'm engaged. And don't lose your— or don't, um, base your gratitude for this life on how you're feeling in that moment, or how you might look, or the successes or the failures of your preparation and your practices. But base your gratitude for the moment merely because you have the moment, and because you are. Because I am. In Hebrew, there's a word, hineni, which is a biblical Hebrew word, which those of you who have studied the Bible, you might have first heard that word, Hineni, when Moses walks up to the burning bush and God says, or should I do like the old school?

Let's do it. Yeah.

And God speaks to Moses from the burning bush and says, Moses, 'cause for some reason back then, God always had a British accent. Moses. Moses. And Moses was American in— what is it, Charlton Heston? Who is it? Yes, and he was American, but God was British. And anyway, but in the Hebrew Bible, Moses responds, "Hineni," which means "I am." So in that moment, "Hineni"— base your gratitude for life, for this moment, merely because you have this moment, because you are, because I am. And then with that mindfulness and with the direction of, of your spirit, whatever you're feeling, however you look, whatever your preparation and whatever your life was like before this moment, whatever your moments before were, with your mindfulness and direction of your spirit to yourself, say, I am. I am here. I am now. This moment will never come again. This, this moment will never happen ever again. I will never look exactly like this. I will never feel exactly like this. The people and the world and the environment that I'm looking at and engaging with will never be exactly the same as it is right now. I won't ever see the sun twinkle, the sunlight twinkling on the rippling water in front of me. I won't see that leaf blow in the winds the way it does. My jaw might not clench as it does. I might not smell that distant scent of a flower or the lavender in the distance the way I am right now. I might not hear the bird chirping or the truck driving down the road or an ambulance siren in the distance. Just like that, I might not ever see the stars twinkle the same way that they are right now, or feel the wetness of the night grass as I look up at the moon the same way as I am right now. I will never have this moment the way I am right now. I will never speak the way I am right now, or hear the way I am right now. I won't be the way I am right now. I might not ever hear my friend's voice again, as I have right now, or as I have in the moment before. My mother might not look the same as she did last week or the week before. I won't have the same feelings as I have right now or as I felt before, because each of those things is unique in the moment. And I won't ever experience any of these things ever in the exact same way again. And that's the way that is life. Nothing in my life will ever happen just like this ever again. And not but, and I keep moving forward. My life is moving forward. My gratitude for this life, for this moment, is it is because I am here, because I am now, because I am. And now I just breathe.

You've left me a little bit speechless, which is unusual. Every— everybody listening knows that. Thank you. I've never thought about those moments of gratitude like that. Oftentimes you think about— I mean, typically, honestly, I am grateful for what I have, right? I am grateful for what is. I am grateful for what I am manifesting, right? But not, I am grateful, period.

The more we, the more we practice gratefulness, and I have no long, how, I have no clue how long it took me to say what I just said. I lost a sense of time there.

That's okay.

But those thoughts don't have to take as long as I said them. Doesn't have to take 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 1 minute, an hour, a day. It can be momentary. It can be a split second. The more we practice that, the more available it becomes, that momentary gratitude. That momentary blessing, self-blessing for ourselves and for the world and universe around us.

That is the lesson. The end. We're done now.

And, and scene.

That's right.

And now we go back to one.

Oh my goodness. Um, okay. If anybody else cried, it's okay because I, I am crying. So just hold that. It's okay. Tears are good.

Tears are good. Tears are, are actually very important. It's cathartic. And there's something in too many societies for our people— and for our people, I mean our human people around the world— where within these societies they try to say that it's not okay to cry, you know. Oh, don't cry, don't Don't cry, it's okay. Don't cry. Or be a man. Oh, I hate that one. Yeah, I hear that a lot. Or don't be a pussy, right? Don't cry. In fact, crying is so healthy, it is so real. And you know what? Our eyes need it too, because it's cleansing. It cleanses our eyes. We tear up when dust blows in our eyes. We tear up when dust blows into our soul. We tear up when something feels feels dirty or spicy, right? We typically eat spicy food. I'm a spice addict, right?

Uh-huh.

Um, for people who, who are feeling trapped or, or dealing with anxiety and depression or are trying to suppress whatever it is in, in their life, Go to your own quiet space if you can find it, if you have it, and play one of those playlists that you can find on, I don't know, Spotify, on Apple, on Amazon Music, or, or wherever you can find music, or sing your own song that brings about tears. The playlist or the song that will make you cry. Let it out. Let yourself feel those tears. And if you have noticed that you haven't cried for a long time, please, for yourself, give yourself that moment of self-gratitude to cry. It is balancing and it is cathartic. And it is so important in our lives. I mean, howl at the moon. Go out and howl at the moon. Bathe in water and, huh, you know, let your soul, the sound, reach the depths of your gut.

Yeah.

And if you ever hear somebody say to someone else, oh, don't cry, quickly chime in and say, it's okay to cry. I'm, I'm here with you. And if you don't want me here with you, I'm over there with you.

Right. Yes.

Yes.

Yes, it is such an important release, and it's a really good thing to teach our children. Absolutely. And to your point, to share with, share with everyone around us, but As a lot, a lot of you listening are parents, it's never too late to shift that messaging.

Is crying more vulnerable than laughing?

I believe, I think that is the stigma. What do you think? Hmm.

Maybe that's too general of a question. I want to say no, but you're right, there's a stigma that's associated with it. It's okay for us to see somebody cry with joy and cry with, with delight or surprise, and we think that that's wonderful. But to cry with a remorse or loss or sadness or depression— yeah, it's as if we try to mask the fact that the lows are part of life. But they're part of life. They happen, and they will happen, and they're going to happen, and more of them will happen as long as we live. So as long as we embrace the vulnerability of true self-expression, which crying oftentimes is based on the way we're socialized. We recognize that crying, just like all of our vulnerabilities, are a power. Vulnerability is a power. It's acknowledging vulnerability as a self-power. When we feel it or when we express it, it's a power. Sharing it with others is maybe even more vulnerable. It's even more of a power. But not everybody has to receive our vulnerability. Not everybody needs to choose to go on that journey with us. That's their own choice. And we can also choose who we feel safe enough to be vulnerable with. We need to trust somebody to truly and authentically share our vulnerability. I mean, have you ever signed an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement?

Yes, yes.

Hey, I have so many times, but I can't tell you about it. But if, if we really share that vulnerability with somebody in our truest way, and I'm not just speaking now as, as an actor and as a director and as a storyteller, news commentator, when I go onto public platforms and share my vulnerabilities or the vulnerability of the narrative or the story, I'm talking about the more intimate relationships, the more real here and now type of moments. If we're sharing the vulnerability with someone, then maybe, maybe that someone has to be somebody who we have an NDA with, the non-disclosure agreement. If you're truly going to share all of yourself without filters, then share that with somebody who you trust, who has that non-disclosure agreement, that NDA. But if we share a vulnerability with everybody, even if we don't know them or trust them, then you know what? It's not a vulnerability, because vulnerability includes a risk and an uncertainty. And not everybody deserves that disclosure. Not everyone is that safe person. Not every situation is that safe space. Not everybody is the right person, and not every moment is the right moment for you to totally be open as you are, because we are human beings, we are animals, and we do have to be on guard. We do have to be ready. It's how we're trained. As much as we try to use the, the mantras and the meditations and the dogmatic religions and whatever philosophy books to be bigger and greater than ourselves. The truth is, get deeper and more specific into yourself, into how small you are, and then you'll know when to be vulnerable and when not. And then your vulnerability, when you are, so much more special, so much more beautiful and cathartic. Whoa, I didn't expect this kind of conversation in our podcast today.

I didn't either. I really didn't at all. And I'm rather taken by it. I know I just said that, but I'm searching for another way to describe. It is truly unique. I have, in my 100+ episodes— congratulations, thank you— have not had a conversation like this ever. And And I have had lovely conversations with lovely people, but this is very thought-provoking. And even on this point of vulnerability, thinking about the times that— how difficult it is for many to be vulnerable at all. And that really takes a lot of inner work, a lot of courage, a lot of being connected. But then understanding also how Being vulnerable can help others.

Yeah. Well, you know, you focus a lot on family relationships, right? On parents and, and children and future parents and grandparents and, you know, all the relationships, the entire lineage. And I think that's— those are the relationships where, when they are relationships that are based in love, in just loving your children, loving your parents and your grandparents and your grandchildren and whatever it is, those are the relationships where— the loving relationships where people do allow themselves to experience vulnerability. And ensuring, creating, fighting for those safe spaces to allow those we love to be able to be vulnerable.

Yes.

When we can think about that, that those are the NDA people, those are the non-disclosure agreement people, and that includes our chosen family, right? Not only the families we're born to, but our innermost circle. We must always make sure that we can be vulnerable in that innermost circle, and we must always ensure that those who share that space with us can be vulnerable as well. And it's our duty to them to, to have that safe space where we can laugh and we can cry, and maybe one second after the other, maybe one moment after the other, or both at the same time. Um, yeah, and to just breathe together. You know, we, we have these yoga classes where the yoga instructor might read from a book and give, you know, her philosophical thoughts of the day, and we think about the breath. And we have the meditation classes and the, the houses of worship Or even just waking up in the morning. You wake up in the morning and you have that breath, or maybe that breath as you snuggle into bed. It's that vulnerable moment to allow yourself to relax and to just be. I, uh, Those are moment— those are teaching moments for the rest of the moments throughout our days, especially the moments that challenge us. And if we can prepare and train for the moments that challenge us, because even in the most highly stressful, highly frightening, challenging, intense, angering, whatever moments, the most intense moments That's when we need to have that just breathe moment. Those are the moments where we need to recognize our vulnerability, because it's from that vulnerability that we know how to be strong and we know how to be brave. Bravery and courage doesn't come from strength. It comes from weakness. It comes from acknowledging our weaknesses. And then knowing what we need to defend, what we need to protect, what we need to fight for. And fight forward, not fight back for. How do we fight forward for it? And yeah, and ride it out.

Well, also I think knowing that we don't need to know.

Mm-hmm. We can want to know. Absolutely. We don't need to know, but we can absolutely want to know.

Yes.

And in contrast, I guess we also have the right to just not want to know. I do not have the right.

Also true. Yeah. I don't have the capacity for knowing.

I don't know. Yep. I can't even. I like that expression. I can't even.

I can't even. Oh, I use it all the time.

Yeah, I've been using it lately. I can't even.

It really just holds— it covers everything, doesn't it? At times when perhaps you can't use other words or phrases you'd like to, it really covers a lot.

My can't even lately has become I don't have the bandwidth for that. Yeah, that's what I've been saying lately. That's, uh, maybe it means the same. That's the just— I can't even— I don't have the— I choose to not have the bandwidth for this thing right now.

Yes, yes, you are protecting.

Yeah, protecting my vulnerabilities, protecting my weaknesses in the moment, saying I cannot, I can't even right now. I can't do this for myself, to myself right now. Yeah. And that's okay. And that is okay.

It is okay because if you don't take that time for yourself and you don't take that moment for yourself, then you know, you're gonna burn out. And any person, but I mean, especially doing all of the work that you do.

Yeah, look, I mean, everything that I've been saying in this conversation, I also say to myself and remind myself of, um, working within entertainment, media, and social and political advocacy. Those worlds and industries and communities, um, are, are challenging. And I pour all of myself into it because I, I also enjoy it and I delight in it and I'm passionate about it and I care with every fiber of my being Yet I have seen burnout on the horizon. I've experienced burnout, and I know how much I need to give myself in order to give others. It's, it's like when, when on the airplanes there's the emergency announcement. I'm sure you've heard this referenced before because a lot of people say what I'm about to say. When the flight attendants do the whole shtick of showing you what, you know, how to put your seatbelt on and all that, they say if the airbags drop, you must first put the airbag or face mask, whatever it's called, on yourself before you put it on your children or your loved ones. Because if we don't take care of ourselves first, we can never take care of anybody else. If you can't love yourself you can never love anybody else.

Yeah.

Um, yeah. And when we recognize that burnout, that just means we haven't been loving ourselves enough. And I've been experiencing that myself, for myself, the way I treat myself, and it is not a good feeling to have. It is not a good realization to have, but it's an important one to have. It's necessary. It's saying, ooh, whoa, I need to take two letters, the letter N and the letter O, and put them together and say, no, I'm not available for that. No, I don't have the bandwidth for that. No, I can't even.

Yeah, yes.

So, um, that, that's something that I— something that's important for people to, to recognize. And, and within our LGBTQIA+ community, and the plus of the community is the most important part of that alphabet soup of, of the name of our community and our LGBTQIA+ because it's the plus of allyship. And the plus means a lot of things. The plus of the LGBTQIA+ means that we have allies, the people who support us, who love us, who are connected to us. The plus also means we have more letters coming, girl. We have more letters. We don't know what they are yet, and we haven't named them yet, or maybe they are named and we're still working on adding them. Them. So it's plus, we're going to add them.

Yep.

But it's also the plus, the allyship that we can give each other and ourselves. Every single one of us is the plus. Whether you are the L, the G, the B, the T, the Q, the I, the A, you know, whatever, or whatever other letters that haven't yet been named. Every one of us has to be the plus for ourselves and for each other. It's why I oftentimes say that our LGBTQIA+ community is more of a movement than a community, because many of us are not being the plus for each other. And yeah, we need to try to be the plus for each other. Actually, don't try, do it. Just be the plus.

Just be the plus, right?

I mean, it's what Yoda said. Mm-hmm. There is no try. There is only do or do not. Mm-hmm. Right? Don't— sorry, I'm a giant dork. It is what it is. Like, I can't—

that is awesome. Thank you. You just made my entire day.

I mean, I'm not only going to make you cry. I can't— I gotta give you some Yoda.

But, you know, I mean, Not many people can do that. I just for a moment have to— I want everybody to take that in.

I'm such a Star Wars geek. It's like, it's, yeah. That is fantastic. It's a thing.

It is a thing. But there are few that can pull that off. So bravo.

Well, I mean, throughout my life, I grew up speaking multiple different languages and I specialize in accents and dialects when I do voiceovers. And as an actor, I'd say probably, probably 3/4 of the roles I've ever played have been foreigners, or let's just call them non-Americans, you know, depending on where your audience is. So I practice my using my voice a lot. How can I use my voice in a way that will impact somebody or that will convey my character's truth? How can I use my voice in a way that shares my own truth? And I noticed that the more stressed I get, the more anxious I get and exhausted I get, the more nasal I get. So I tend to get like really hear, like, very much in the— straight behind the bridge of my nose. And when I'm most grounded, oh, I love that voice. That's like the— that's the me I want to be. The— ooh, wow, listen to that depth. Listen to that breath. Um, so Yeah. Oh gosh, I'm just giving you such— I'm philosophizing nonstop. We were just— went from Yoda, my Yoda impersonation, to philosophizing about, about voices. The point of that was that I like to practice different voices. And when I'm anonymous, like when I'm at the grocery store or out shopping or speaking to somebody who I think I might never talk to again, many times I'm not this Yuval. Like, I will say, oh, this is a perfect opportunity for me to pretend to be somebody be totally different and put on an accent or, you know, speak a different language and pretend I don't speak English or, you know, whatever country I'm in, whatever the vernacular is there. And it is very fun, although sometimes it has happened a few times where somebody I know would walk into the situation and look at me like, what are you doing? Why are you talking with a British accent? Why are you saying, you know, selfie London. Oh my goodness, to Ashir, and I was talking to her and she was just like living for this dialect. And I was saying like, oh darling, it's so great to be here, you know, it's just every— everything here at Whole Foods is really wonderful. I love the way it's laid out, it's so easy to shop here, and it's like everything is so much cheaper than London. And as I was saying this All of a sudden, one of my friends, she walks up, she's like, "Hey, Yuval." I'm like, "Oh, hey." And she's like, "What's going on?" And I was like, "Oh no, I'm going to need to speak to my friend." Because "hey," you know, "hey" sounds like "hey" with a British Londoner South.

It sounds the same.

I was like, "What is my next sentence going to be? Oh my God." No, I was, I started sweating and So then I just kind of told you a little bit quieter like this, like really weird, to try to mask that I was speaking in a British, like, South Londoner dialect to this cashier because I didn't want to like demolish her world. Like, I was complimenting her and she was feeling great and she was happy. And because I noticed the first moment she— the, the cashier there, she was— I don't know, she seemed like she was having a rough day. So I was like, ah, here's an opportunity for me to say nice things to, to to just create a scenario and make her feel great, you know, in the moment. And then my friend ruined it, ruined the whole thing. So I was just like, I just spoke to her, to my friend. I was like, oh yeah, yeah, so good to see you. I'll catch up with you later. And she looked at me like, what are you doing? She walked away. And I, I called her later. I was like, oh my God, this what just happened. She's like, you are so stupid, you're such an idiot, like, I can't believe— I was like, yeah, thank you for not ruining it.

Oh my gosh, that is awesome. Oh, because what wouldn't cheer— I mean, how a British accent cheers up everyone.

There's something about British dialects in America, like, Americans love them. Mm-hmm.

Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, British, uh, yes, it's so very true. It is a weird thing. It is a very weird thing.

Well, I think maybe because we don't hear as many accents in the US. Ah, maybe that's not so true anymore. I was gonna say maybe we don't hear as many accents in the US as we do in other parts of the world, other metropolitan areas. I mean, definitely in Europe because so much of the world has been Euro-focused for a long time where you get more people mixing and traveling. Yeah, maybe that's just how it is in any place that doesn't get as many as many people. I know when I travel in, uh, in Central or in the Midwest, right, different than, um, and I'm not in major cities like Chicago or, or Los Angeles or, you know, even Miami or DC or New York or San Francisco, but cities that don't have as much traffic, let's call it that.

Yes, there we go.

That's when there's something a bit more exotic, and people like the accents. I mean, even my name— I was born in the United States, right? But when people meet me in certain parts of the US, they're like, oh, Yuval, what, what, that— where are you, where are you from? And I said, well, I'm, I'm from, from DC. They're like, no, no, but where are you from? Well, I'm, I'm from DC. They're like, no, no, but you have an accent. I was like, I have an accent? I said, if I said my name was Sean, or— oh, this is my favorite, uh, another alter ego I have, uh, his name is Sebastian. I just like that name.

Do love that name.

If I said my name was Sebastian, like, you would just look at me like, oh, okay, fine. And it's something in our American culture that, uh, I don't know if people are struggling with what what really is American. That's what the, the woke movement has been trying to do, and a lot of people criticize it. And now woke means something totally different than what it originally did, um, but it's just to, to awaken ourselves to the fact that there are multiple narratives out there of our people, of our peoplehood, even our American peoplehood.

Yes, to be aware, right?

To be awake. That's what woke really is about. That's what it means, being awake to what's happening. And yes, what's so bad about that? The, the contrast is what? To be asleep to it, to close your eyes to it, to not be aware of it. Be aware. That's all it means. Yes, it means somebody else has their story, somebody else has their life, and if they're kvetching and complaining and, and, and angry or upset or just trying to share with you, then let them share. And if you have that moment, if you have the bandwidth, then just listen. And the response, the woke response, is I hear I appreciate that you're saying these things. I've, I feel these things. I've sensed these things from what you have just shared. I appreciate that you've shared them with me. That's it.

That's it.

That's it. It's not saying, no, you're wrong. You can't be the cue or the, the Black narrative in America is not the main, like, what? You know, like people are arguing about— because this is a topic we speak about here in the US quite a bit, you know, like why do we have Juneteenth? That's not an American holiday. And it's like, actually, it is an American holiday. It is. Yeah. Be woke to it. Be awake to it. Just hear the narrative of other people. So when I speak with conservative people, especially from an advocacy standpoint. Even if it's on the news, if I'm on a panel with people who systematically are against just about every part of my identity, I will bring up topics like this, saying, just be aware, be awake to it. Just like you want to be respected for your thoughts and your identity, respect them for their thoughts and their identity And that's it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it boils down to people don't like being uncomfortable.

Oh God. But those of us who love vulnerability love that discomfort because that is where art happens and creativity happens and, and love, love in every meaning and every way we can share and express love. It comes from vulnerability.

It does. Connection, understanding, actually seeing people. Yeah, it comes from being uncomfortable. Just embrace it.

Embrace it.

Just embrace that.

And then discover if you want to be uncomfortable. You know, maybe you don't want it, and that's fine. So you embraced it, you acknowledged it. And you can change your place, you can change your direction, you can change your location, you can change the way you lean into it. Yeah. So I'm an avid skier, like skiing is my favorite sport. Uh, it's a milestone of every year. It's one of my favorite getaways to just place my mind somewhere else, to go to high elevation, to 14,000 feet elevation and to have my helmet and my ski gear and to be challenged. And I lean into the challenge. In skiing, the Skiing 101 lessons are the same lessons that are applied to, to skiers who are doing the double black diamonds and doing the challenging mogul runs or skiing through and around the trees. You need to lean into it. Skiing is a forward-moving sport. You need to bend at your knees, you bend a little bit at the hip, you bend at the— every joint, and you lean forward. You lean into the challenge. You lean downhill. Most people, when they're going down a very sheer, steep slope, they're leaning back like, oh my God, this is scary. I'm going to lean away from it. That's the exact opposite of what you need to do. When you embrace the slope and what you're doing, you lean into it. You lean into that discomfort. And then the more that you push your, your shins into the front of the boot, the less discomfort you feel. If you don't press your shins into the front of that ski, you're going to feel a lot of discomfort. So when you feel those moments of discomfort, maybe just lean into it a little bit more and you be uncomfortable anymore.

I like that. That is an excellent analogy. As a fellow skier, I understand that. Now, if there are those out there who don't ski, I highly recommend it.

Where do you ski?

Um, I— the last place I didn't ski at all this past year, which was very, very sad, I know. Um, but I skied Jackson Hole last year, which was—

oh my God. I love Jackson Hole.

Like, that was my— I had wanted to go there for like 20 years.

Oh, it's amazing.

It had been my dream. And we took our two younger kids, and my youngest is like just uber athletic, and he was so excited to ski with me and go. And he's like, I think I might be faster than you. And I was like, well, you know, you are, you know, almost 15 now and muscly and all the things. I'm a little bit older than that. So Yeah, but I can still take you. So it might be the one place that I can't. Um, but I mean, I— when you're saying that, I'm like, oh my gosh, yes. Um, I don't know if that's my favorite place ever. I think I've had other places that I like more, but that was definitely a— and it was a dream, and I was so delighted just to be there.

Um, ah, just everything about it. I skied Jackson Hole this last winter.

Did you?

Oh yeah. Skied Deer Valley, Park City, Aspen, Beaver Creek, Jackson Hole. What else am I missing? I feel like I'm skipping one of the places I skied this past winter, but yeah, it's, we have some beautiful places. I don't ski East Coast very much. Anymore. I've been spoiled by powder and skiing in like tons of snow and powdery conditions.

It's— there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it. I learned to ski, um, East, you know, East Coast, Midwest. So, you know, I learned how to ski on ice and hard, you know, hard ground.

It actually makes you a better skier, I think. I just learned to ski in the East as well.

Yeah, so we are rockstar skiers because of, because of that, because skiing in powder is like a dream.

So easy. It's so much easier. It's just like, oh, it's so great. And it's just, ah, when I'm forced to, no, when I choose to ski with skiers who are not at or near the level that I'm at and they're skiing in powder and they're nervous about it and they're trying to avoid the powder, I keep saying No, no, no, you have to find the pow. You gotta get into the powder. It's the best. But it's scary. I don't know what's there. And I'm like, exactly, like, lean into it. And skiing becomes so much easier when you ski in and into the powder. Yeah.

And you, if you happen to fall, it's no big deal.

My screensaver, let's see, is is that— so this past winter I hiked, uh, I hiked up to 14,000 feet elevation and skied down. This was in Aspen, and that was one of my favorite ski days of my entire life. Just—

oh, I bet.

Oh, it was such a good workout hiking up the mountain, and I had to stop a few times and just catch my breath and take photos of the beautiful environment around me, and it was breathtaking and challenging. And I made it to the very top, and I felt so successful. I felt so like I achieved something great, and I was ready to ski down. And I was chatting with this woman who was up there, and I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing, incredible workout. Like, oh God, I wish I could do this every day. And she's like, I do. "Go." I said, "What?" She's like, "Yeah, I do this every day." And I said, "That was a really hard workout." I was like, "I now understand," because even with all her ski gear, I could tell that she was probably like shredded. She was probably just like only muscles. I'm like, "Oh my God." She said, "Not only that, I do it twice a day." I'm like, "You do this twice a day? Stop it!" And she said it was a mental health thing for her. She was a way to alleviate stress, and she just fell in love with it. And she's in the best shape of her life. And I, for like 3 or 4 days afterwards, I continued to lose weight. I'm like, ooh, or to lose fat, I should say it that way. Yeah, this was a really good workout. I'm getting shredded. And I did it once.

Like, who is this Wonder Woman who I met at the top of the mountain? Oh, I love that.

She wasn't panting. She wasn't like She wasn't struggling. I was panting and struggling, and I thought I'm in pretty good shape. But then I met Wonder Woman at the top of the mountain. I'm like, oh my God, good for her, right? And then skiing down, like, I felt like I earned it. I didn't just ride a chairlift and go the easy way up. Like, I earned the powder on the way down. And then I was done. Then I was done for the day. I'm like, and I'm done. And that's a day. Now I need to eat a lot.

I need an après-ski, right?

Oh yeah, après-ski is always good.

Always good. Yes. Oh my goodness. That is so funny. I remember as a little kid, the place that we used to go and I always wondered, you know, you'd see the après-ski. I'm like, what is that? My parents would be like, oh, don't worry about it. And then I became old enough to understand, and I was like, well, this is magic.

I mean, après-ski is pretty great.

It's a good thing after a day of skiing.

It sure is.

Oh my goodness. Okay, so I just looked at our time, and I have taken a lot of your day, and I really, really want to talk about your movie.

Oh my God, please do.

So I am so intrigued. I am. So first of all, it is called Wonderfully Made, and I want to know everything about it. I want to know, um, how you came up with this concept. And I read somewhere in everything that I was reading that this is the first, and it's a series. It's going— you're planning a series.

Oh, I would love to turn this into a series. A lot of the— a lot of that rides on the success of, of this film. Uh, to be an independent filmmaker requires blood, sweat, and tears, and I do mean all of that.

I can only imagine.

It's not a— it's not an easy, simple task. Uh, and creating wonderfully made LGBTQ+ art is the secondary title, uh, really allowed me to experience all of that blood, sweat, and tears, uh, and I'm very proud of it. Wonderfully Made LGBTQ+R is started as an art project, um, because I noticed that there was a lacuna, a, a gap, a place where LGBTQ people of faith were struggling to be seen, and it actually started with, with my husband, with my partner. He is Catholic, and he was trying to find Catholic iconography that would, would speak to him, that would represent him as a gay Catholic man. He was looking online, and he was trying to find imagery would speak to him and that, you know, piece of art that would encapsulate everything that he wanted and needed to see for whatever spiritual journey and spiritual moment that he was on. And he couldn't find it. And I said, well, hey, you married a creative, you married an artist. You know, my art is within film, television, and theater. But I can do this. Let's, let's do this because you're not the only one. Throughout my advocacy, especially the LGBTQ advocacy, I encounter so many people who also are religious or have challenges and aspirations within the intersectionality of their LGBTQ and religious identities. So let's create something for you and for anybody who like you is searching for something. And that's how this project began as a photo art project, uh, producing and creating this, this photo art representing Jesus as a member or ally of the LGBTQ community, represented by almost a dozen different LGBTQ+ people. What does a Jewish guy have to do creating this? Some people have asked. I was like, well, I, I am connected to my faith and my faith traditions. Uh, I have a degree in art history. I've studied this stuff, uh, and I'm engaged in LGBTQ advocacy, and I encounter people who, who are seeking something, and I'm married to somebody who is seeking that something, and that's how this project began and turned into a documentary which explores the creation of this art and interviewing leading, uh, leading Catholics who deal with this specific intersectionality of LGBTQ and Catholic identity. Uh, so if this film is successful, whatever that means, then I'll be able to hopefully turn it into a series exploring all different faith traditions and continually exploring this and creating art for people of these different religions and faith traditions to find that they can also be LGBTQ at the same time, but also representing what it means to be LGBTQ within a religion for those who are not LGBTQ. So they can see that we exist, that we exist within every community, because the LGBTQ community the most diverse community in the world because we're part of every other community in the world. So Wonderfully Made tries to— oh, I'm sorry, I just said try. Wonderfully Made actually does tackle a lot of these, these issues in a creative way. And I would love for all of your listeners to, to go to the website wonderfullymadefilm.com, uh, and you can also find the movie and the art on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Wonderfully Made or Wonderfully Made Movie. You'll be able to find it. And you know, it's a form of art for social change. It's a grassroots independent production that requires audiences to share the message to reach the people who need to reach, who need to be reached, because a fact is when we look at what's happening on a sociopolitical level to and with the LGBTQ community and movement, we recognize that the vast majority of anti-LGBTQ laws, legislations, uh, rules, and beliefs are on the basis of religion. So let's go to the root cause of where those thoughts and issues are coming from. And explore it, and then create the change within the religion so people acknowledge that LGBTQ people are there. Now, this isn't only a message to the religious people who are anti-LGBTQ. It's also a message to people who are religious and might not be aware of LGBTQ people or might not care, and it shows them why they should care. But it's also a message to LGBTQ people people that they can be of faith, that they can have an intersectional identity. The mere fact that I'm LGBTQ doesn't mean that I'm no longer everything else, and it also doesn't mean that my LGBTQ identity must be the most important part of my identity. It could be, it doesn't have to be. Same thing with having a religious identity. Or a cultural or an ethnic identity, you know, that we all have intersectional identities, that, that it's about the communities that we're part of where they intersect within that Venn diagram. And, and that's what this film really tries to do with a specific focus on LGBTQ Catholics.

Wow.

Yeah, wow.

It's, it's, I mean, it is, it is a lot, but I love that you've done this because this is something that is very, very needed and it is a topic that can be very triggering. Um, it can be very painful. It can be something that, um, you know, has perhaps been either sidelined or left behind because of all the things, right?

Right.

So I appreciate— I'm looking forward to actually seeing it myself. I just received it from your PR person a little bit earlier today, so I have not had a chance to take a look, but it will also be linked in the show notes, and I'll have it linked to everything, so it'll be very easy for everyone listening to be able to click through to all these different pieces that you just mentioned. Wonderful.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really, um, being an independent filmmaker is, is hard, uh, and it requires collaboration with audiences as well. It's how we get the message out, because we don't have the power and the financial backing of major studios to fund the marketing and the PR, which marketing costs most people don't recognize when they talk about, oh, how much does it cost to make a movie? They don't recognize that the vast majority of the budget goes towards marketing and PR.

They—

most people think about, oh, production, that's the sexiest part, that's the most exciting part, what happens when the cameras are on. That is the smallest part of the production.

Wow.

Most of, uh, of the production time, right, is in editing, is in what's called post-production. The editing, the sound mixing, the color correction is all of the stuff like what do we do with all the content that we have. But then once the film is finished, the vast majority of the work and the budget, depending on how much money you have, goes into, okay, what do we do now? How do we get this out there? Because the sky's the limit when it comes to marketing, advertising, and PR costs. Oh, so there's also a donate button on the website, wonderfully made film film.com, uh, which, if this does speak to you, then please join us in, in the, in the movement and join our community to, to help spread the message of this film and to prove to people within the industry that there is an audience for this. Um, it's a triggering topic, uh, for people— religion. Some people focus on traditions and keeping things traditionally as they are and very much protecting it. Other people don't want to deal with it at all because they've been affected negatively by it, or, uh, or they're not part of it anymore, or whatever it is. But we cannot practice erasure of erasing the people who are still part of it, the people who are still experiencing it. And those are important audiences as well. And that's something that the entertainment industry needs to learn and needs to acknowledge that it's not all about putting things in its own specific little bubbles. Like, oh, this is a— this is a— an LGBTQ film, so we're only going to put it for the LGBTQ, you know, playlists or whatever it is on Netflix or Amazon or Hulu or, you know, whatever. And this is a religious film, and we're going to put it here for only the religious community. And here's You know, you can't separate everything. We need to be able to, to reach the communities. And it's rare for us to see a film that is both an LGBTQ film and a religious film together in one. And I think that many people in the film industry are confused by that. Like, well, how do you have both? I mean, it's either LGBTQ or it's religious. And like, uh, Nope, it's, it's, it's both. Who's the audience? Is it LGBTQ people or is it religious people? It's like, uh, yes and yes.

Yes, both, right? You are a trailblazer.

Uh, am I a trailblazer?

All right, yes, I think so.

A trailblazer.

A trailblazer. That's the word that just came to mind. I don't know of any— anything else that has been done like this. And I— those reactions are both understandable and, um, you know, obviously for good reason. But this has the potential to shift that.

And that's the power, and that's the power of art. You know, people, when they view the art that we created or view the film, uh, just like art does for all different types of art, art does. Uh, it's meant to provoke thoughts and emotions and to make people change. Art isn't only there to make us feel comfortable, it's also there to make us— let's go back to that word— vulnerable. It's there to, to disturb and disrupt, in addition to making us feel comfortable and feeling seen and feeling represented and recognized. It's— it can do all of those things. So that's what I really aimed to do with this project. And now it just takes audiences to watch it, see it, view it, and share it.

And share it. Yes. Okay, well, this is— we have our, our homework, don't we?

Yeah, we do.

I like it. I like it. This has been the most unexpected and most wonderful, and my— I just feel like my cup is full. I feel like my soul has been just, I don't know, rejuvenated. So this conversation, thank you. And I know that you've had just a tough, a tough day and many tough days and lots going on. And so I am very grateful that you've been here and have shared so much of your soul with me and with my audience.

The thanks are to you. I thank you for your time. I thank you for bringing me onto your show and sharing me with your audiences, uh, and all of my uber philosophizing.