Kevin Wong on LGBTQ Suicide Prevention and Advocacy at The Trevor Project – Just Breathe Podcast

Welcome to Just Breathe. I am really happy you all are here today. I am absolutely thrilled to introduce the guest that I have for today, and this is just a really big treat for us because Kevin Wong is from The Trevor Project, which you all know I, I love and we talk about a lot. And so I'm thrilled to have him here today, and I just want to give you a little bit of background on who he is, and, and then we're going to get into some just really interesting questions and conversations. So Kevin is the Vice President of Communications for The Trevor Project. The Trevor Project, as you know, is the world's largest suicide prevention and mental health organization for LGBTQ young people. He oversees the organization's communication strategy, including media relations, celebrity engagement, internal and executive communications, speaking engagements and awards, crisis communications, and more. Kevin works closely with The Trevor Project's marketing and creative teams to develop 360-degree campaigns that promote the organization's crisis services, resources, partnerships, and innovations, as well as its research, education, and advocacy initiatives. He leads a team of 12 that PR Daily recently awarded as Communications Team of the Year. So Kevin, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I am delighted and honored and just thank you.

Thank you so much for having me. You forget the different things I do day to day until you hear someone else read it out to you.

It always is a fun thing, isn't it? When somebody reads your bio back to you and you think, Holy cow. That's amazing.

That's me, I guess.

That's you on paper, right? Of course, I really am grateful that you had some time today to talk because, you know, 12 months a year, 365 days a year, The Trevor Project is amazing and you all are doing really amazing things, but I thought this would be a particularly good time of year to talk with you since September is Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. So to that end, I thought it would be really awesome if you, you know, kind of in your words could tell us who The Trevor Project is.

Yeah. So National Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, you may have seen some of these stats or heard these stats before, but the CDC tells us that suicide is the second leading cause of death among young people. The CDC also tells us that out of that, that's already a pretty dark statistic, but out of that, LGBTQ young people are more than 4 times more likely to attempt suicide than their peers. Our own research shows us that 45% of LGBTQ youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year. And it's a little darker for trans young people. Nearly 1 in 5 trans and non-binary youth attempted suicide. So these are pretty stark stats. The Trevor Project exists for LGBTQ young people to find the support that they need. You already said it up top, we're the world's largest suicide prevention and mental health organization for LGBTQ young people, but let me lay out our program so you can know what that means in practicality. So we run 24/7 free and confidential crisis services for LGBTQ youth. So that's our Lifeline chat and text. You can reach a highly trained counselor. You can talk with them about anything from, "Hey, I had a really tough day at school today," or, "I'm just having a tough breakup. I need to talk through it," all the way to, "Hey, I'm imminently thinking about killing myself." All of those things fit within whatever a young person thinks a crisis might be to them. Emotions are specific to different people. So that's our crisis services and crisis intervention. We also have suicide prevention programs that we call our key program areas, and they help us prevent suicide. We hope— we have these programs to help prevent young people from being in a moment of crisis in the first place. So that's research, we just talked through some of that, education, so making sure that youth-facing adults, adults who interact with young people, all the different companies that we work with, different partners and peer organizations, they are educated on suicide risk, working with LGBTQ young people and LGBTQ competencies, etc. So research, education, advocacy, making sure that we're fighting and protecting young people federally, statewide, and in different municipalities, and peer support. That's our last key program area. Peer support, we have a platform called Trevor Space. That's our safe space social networking site where young people can find peer support. So that might look like a trans young person in Kansas who says, they may post, "Hey, I'm having this kind of experience with my parents. Anyone else out there who can help me?" And maybe somebody in Paris answers and they say, "I'm having this exact same challenge. Here's what I did." And they can help each other through that. Peer support is almost a different type of protective factor versus a risk factor. A protective factor where you can see how somebody else might have played out a certain situation. So crisis services, research, education, advocacy, and peer support.

That's incredible. That is really, um, I, you know, the one thing that of course that I use the most is, is the research, which you always have, you know, new and, um, just you're kind of on the cutting edge of research when it comes to, you know, understanding what is going on in the LGBTQ community. And, um, and I love that you've also then added on, you can talk a little bit about doing the advocacy piece with, you know, kind of stepping into this is what's going on in different states, and this is what's going on in the country, and this is what's going on in the world, and how do we, you know, what can we do about that? And, um, That is a really, really— obviously, it's becoming more and more of an important piece right now. And I would like to talk about that, but really quickly, I just want to touch on the peer support because that is something that I don't think a lot of people realize is available. And that is a question that I get asked a lot is, you know, is there a space that, you know, my child can go to, to talk to somebody else who is, you know, trans or who is gay or who is struggling with this particular, um, you know, struggle, right? Whether it's something at school or something, whatever it is. Um, so I love that there is that aside from the, the crisis piece, which is, you know, those are two different things, right? And so really How, what is the best way do you find to make this information known, not just to parents, but to our LGBTQ youth, to our kids?

Yeah. So you hit the nail on the head. Peer support can be very powerful, and you do not need to be at imminent risk of suicide or suicidal thoughts to sign up for Trevor Space. TrevorSpace.org is the website. So Trevor Space It's one of those things that my wish and my hope for most young people that they knew this was available to them. It is an international program, so it already is pretty widely used. I'm trying to remember the exact usage, but I think it's something like 500K young people use this already, and that's international, right? So the really cool thing is there are interest groups within Trevor Space. So LGBTQ people, you've probably heard this before, LGBTQ people young people especially, not a monolith, right? Just because we maybe are part of the same acronym or part of the same, you know, gay community, lesbian community, bi community, trans community, etc., we are not a monolith. So the really cool thing about Trevor Space is that there are different interest groups. So regardless of how you identify or regardless of your sexual orientation or gender identity, you can find people who maybe share some of those same identities but also care about the same things, who maybe have the same interests as you. So that could look like, I'm really into art or the arts, and you join a group where you're talking about those things among other questions that you may have, and that's totally fine. It's all mixed in. Were you going to say something?

No, no, no, no. I'm just like, this is fantastic.

Yeah. So another could be for sports or athletes. Another could be hobby-based or interest-based. And some of those are We suggest them because we understand that there are commonalities in certain arenas, and others, young people are empowered and they ask for those things. And so our moderators work with young people to make sure that they have spaces to have those conversations where they feel comfortable. But the safe space aspect is definitely where we want to make sure young people are thriving, because, you know, you might feel comfortable asking this, certain questions to folks on Trevor Space because, you know, they share a unique identity, or maybe they share unique interests, and maybe you're less comfortable asking a school counselor, or maybe you are less comfortable asking a parent. So having that as a venue for outreach is a really important one.

Absolutely. Now, you mentioned moderators on there. Is that something that you, that you, there are people on there who are kind of watching the conversations to make sure that it does remain a safe space? Or how, how does that How does that work in there? Yes.

So we have moderators, and they are constantly taking a look at the things that are posted, but at the same time making sure that they are fostering positive community, making sure that they have the resources they need. And, I mean, you are also talking about young people who may be at risk or may be experiencing mental health challenges. So maybe they also see something that is flagged, or they flag it themselves, and they make sure they get the resources they need.

That's great. That's really, really great. Now, what if another question that comes up, and again, it's not necessarily crisis-related, but knowing that there is kind of this safe space, you know, not, not many kids really want to talk to their parents or another, you know, adult, so to speak, like a school counselor about, you know, about their sexual orientation, about questions they may have about sex or about, you know, even clothing or, you know, how to dress and I'm feeling this way. Is that a space where they could ask these type of questions? Or is this— I mean, is this really strictly peer-type interaction?

Yeah. It's— I found myself thinking, so I've been there. I found myself thinking about my own experiences when you ask that question. What I would encourage young people to do is, yes, definitely go to the folks you feel comfortable asking certain questions to, but at the same time, remember that you can check out thetrevorproject.org/resources, and there are plenty of things like the Coming Out Handbook, for instance, or how to support trans and non-binary Young people. Those things can help you. You, you might not identify with those things, but you can learn a lot about certain identities, including ways to explore, for instance, your gender identity. That might look like a social transition and what that means, right? So hair, clothing, name change, etc., before making any other decisions. Or the Coming Out Handbook, for instance, that can help you think through what coming out might look like for you, Never prescriptive, right? Same with when you call our 24/7 crisis services. We will never be the masters of your experience, but we can say, "Well, how do we keep you safe? How do we help you ask certain questions or reflect on what your experience could be in your own situation?" And those things can be really helpful before any young person takes any steps.

Right, right. Okay, that's really, really helpful, and I think that, you know, a good distinction just so kids and parents alike kind of know, you know, where to go and what they can ask or what, you know, it's just such a valuable resource that I want to make sure that everyone knows how to use it and really knows the depth of what's available. So thank you, thank you, thank you. So circling back, just so I wanted to to back up to the advocacy work that, um, that you are doing, because, um, that is really, really important. I mean, it's always been important, but I think it's particularly important right now, um, given, you know, some of the, the bills that are in line to be, to be looked at, voted on, etc., etc. And so I'm wondering if you could just talk a little bit about what the Trevor Project is doing as far as, as that goes.

Yeah. So for the listeners who might not know, uh, the last couple of years have been really tough for LGBTQ young people and the policies that impact them. So that's not just federal, that's federal, state, local, municipal. Um, out of all the anti-LGBTQ of bills that were filed last year. I think it ended up being around 300 or more than 300 in 2022 alone. Many of them target trans and non-binary young people. And those are generally of two flavors: gender-affirming care restriction and ability— restricting trans folks' ability to play sports that align with their— on teams that align with their gender identity. So our advocacy team, which has, you know, we've invested quite a bit in advocacy because we see how important this is for young people to see an organization like ours fighting for them, protecting them, and making these substantial, hopefully substantial wins in the next congressional session to come. So our advocacy team, we've been collaborating with state and local organizations on the ground. We travel to testify in congressional hearings. It's really important to get certain perspectives at a press conference, for instance, attending rallies. We use a program called Phone to Action where we can rally our base, our supporters, to take certain actions, like calling a senator, for instance, in their state. We do media interviews to spread our research. We make sure that folks who are setting policy, we have those meetings with them to say, "This is what you were setting policy around. Here's the actual research." please do your due diligence and make decisions based off of evidence-based research. We will also work with different coalitions, large swaths of organizations to submit letters of support or opposition. We submit amicus briefs. I mean, this is a long list you're getting, Heather, but this is all, this is all really good work that we do. It is. All of these things help contribute.

That is, I mean, that's exactly what I wanted to know. And that's what I think, I think everybody wants to know, like, what is what is being done, right? Because we, you know, I know that you are, you know, that you're working out there, that you're doing all of this work. And I think too, as, you know, people who are listening, as people who are, you know, parents or whatever, you know, in whatever capacity, what is it that we can do to help, right? We know that you're doing all of this great work and there are other, you know, other organizations that are doing this really important work. Important work, but we see all this stuff, right, day in and day out on the news. We read it, you know, online or whatever, and we think, oh my gosh, like, ah, like, what, what can be done or what is being done? So I appreciate you sharing all the details because, you know, people, people want to know, um, and, and it's nice to hear positive news.

Yeah. So what you just said, you know, seeing everything in the news, another stat that we have, a little bit of a downer, but the majority of young people, LGBTQ young people, say that recent politics in the news negatively impacts their mental health. And I know that's, I mean, I'm an adult, that's definitely true for some of us too. And for LGBTQ young people, to have your identities, your lives debated on a world stage, a national stage, political stage, whatever it is. Maybe you even feel like your identities are being used as political pawns. That can really hurt. And in terms of what we can do, what y'all can do, your listeners, uh, supporting The Trevor Project is one thing, but if you also want to be one of those folks that we call up in a time of need or text in a time of need, check out thetrevorproject.org/act. Advocacy. Sign up for our phone-to-action list, and when there is an action to be taken in your state, we will definitely hit you up.

Awesome. That, that is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you. Um, yes, I think that is, that is really, really important. And I mean, to your point, yes, I know that, um, you know, just, just in my house with my kids, and I think too, when you think about how You know, we're adults, right? So we consume the news and we consume this information in a way that's very different than kids consume it and, and see it, right? I mean, their perspective is so different and it's so interesting. But it's also when they repeat back to me what they've heard, you know, we've, we've been watching the same thing or we've seen the same exact thing online, but when they repeat back what they've kind of either heard or seen, it a lot of times is very different, right, than, than what we hear. And so, um, it is, it is very, very difficult. And I know between everything that has happened, um, with, you know, identity politics, um, in the past few years and, um, And then, you know, COVID was not helpful either, right? That was a whole different kind of hit for them. So knowing that not only is this work being done, but there are places, places for our kids to go to get the support, whether it's whether it's just in a, I need to, I need to chit-chat with somebody, or I am in major crisis, um, is, is really, really comforting. Uh, so thank you, thank you so much. Um, as parents, because, you know, as you know, um, not only is kind of the whole coming out process different for every child, every person, every human. It's different, ongoing, right? And ongoing. It's a lifelong thing. For parents, it's different, right? Every parent, you know, receives and processes that information different. And I'm wondering, you know, specifically when it comes to mental health with your LGBTQ child, What are the things that parents need to look for or be kind of aware of? Because I know sometimes, you know, as a parent, you can kind of get lost in your process, right? Or lost in where you are or how you're seeing things and what you may be seeing as like a behavioral issue or maybe something totally different, right? So I'm wondering if you could kind of talk a little bit about things that parents should look for and be aware of?

Yeah, so first I'm going to share a personal anecdote. When I came out to my parents, I won't tell you the exact scenario, but when I came out to my parents, a friend to me said, um, remember at the time I was 18 to them. I came out when I was 16 to friends but 18 to them. Remember you've had 18 years to think about this, maybe, maybe less if you realized a little later, but you've had many years to think about this. They are finding out now. They are knowing now. So they have less time to understand and less time to educate themselves. That this is not for everyone, right, but this is my specific example. Sometimes it does take a little bit of education And I don't, I don't want, what I don't want is for all LGBTQ young people to have to put that burden on themselves. But remember, some parents may have to do a little self-educating or maybe asking some questions where they just need to learn a little bit more to get to a place of understanding and acceptance. Acceptance is where I kind of want to end up. So another part of our research shows that acceptance from just one, at least one adult, can decrease an LGBTQ young person's risk for suicide attempt by 40%. So I'll say that one more time, 40%. That is huge by public health standards. Being that one accepting and supportive adult can seriously change the trajectory of a young person's life. And that does not mean you have to be a clinician, a mental health expert, you don't even have to know all the things there are to know about LGBTQ competencies. You just have to accept and support the young person in your life. That is very, very powerful. Now, if we want to get a little more technical, I am happy to share an acronym that helps folks maybe recognize some of the things that they could do in a moment of crisis for a young person, and that acronym is CARE, C-A-R-E. That stands for connect, ask, respond, and empower. So C, connect. If you notice any warning signs of suicide from someone you know, reach out to them. And that could be big changes in behavior. That could look like exorbitant use of substances or alcohol. That could look like a really big jump in irritability. That could look like impulsiveness. That can also, you know, one of the reasons why Our crisis services exists to ask straight up. This is actually the second letter of the acronym. A is ask. To ask straight up if you were thinking about killing yourself, or if you're thinking about suicide. So asking. So ask directly, "Are you thinking about killing yourself?" It is definitely challenging, especially around the times, around these times where mental health discussions have been stigmatized, or it's tough to talk about suicide or mental health sometimes, especially if it's so personal. But talking about suicide is proven to reduce risk, so ask. And then the third letter, R, stands for respond. If that young person opens up to you about their suicidal ideation or their thoughts about suicide, honor that. Trust that— honor that trust by responding with compassion, empathy. Make sure that they know that you are there for them. And E stands for empower. So talking openly, great first step, but you can also empower them with the information and support they need to improve their situation. So that can look like talking to them about resources on The Trevor Project's website, that can look like calling, chatting, or texting a counselor, that can also look like going to a school counselor, or finding clinical support in maybe a local therapist, et cetera. Some things will be unique decisions to someone's unique situation, but the general framework of CARE really helps find what's best for that young person.

Absolutely, it does, and I think that's really helpful to have an acronym like that, that, you know, that anyone can remember. And because what often when you're in a, you find yourself in that situation, you're panicked or you're scared or you're frozen, right? So being able to recall something really quickly and be like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to do and not freak out or, you know, whatever your kind of crisis response is. Everybody's is different. But to really to know, okay, this is— there's something I can do right there. I can do something about this. And I think to the, you know, I love that you encourage asking because it goes against kind of what you're, what you wanna do, right? Nobody wants to ask that question, but that question is so important because once you say it out loud and you're able to, you know, say, are you thinking of killing yourself? Are you thinking of hurting yourself? And that is put on the table, That opens up just an incredible door for conversation and for information. And so, yes, very scary. I acknowledge, and it is okay. It's uncomfortable, but do it, do it, do it. That's what I have to say about that, because, you know, we have been there and And that is a— that we didn't know that at the time. So this is information that I wish I had known and am grateful to know is available. So thank you.

Of course. I mean, you're right. Some of these topics, they are stigmatized and they thrive because they are in the shadows. People are afraid to talk about them, and the only way to destigmatize them is to make sure that folks are equipped in this way to talk about those openly, not putting any pressure on folks to talk about their personal experiences if they are not comfortable, but asking straight out, or sharing some personal— the people who are comfortable sharing those personal anecdotes about yourself, that helps other folks see, "Oh, I'm not alone," or "This isn't just me," "Oh, I can talk to somebody else about this." And it does open up pathways and avenues to learn more information, maybe means or different ways that they're ideating about suicide, but making sure that with that information, you now know how to recommend help or recommend where they go next. That might not be you. It might not end with you, right? You might not be the expert or the clinician, and that's totally fine, but hearing them out and being that supportive friend really does go a long way.

It really does. I mean, and it is actually life-changing to be able to do that. So, um, and, and to be aware and to kind of know, you know, like you said, to know what to look for and, um, and to kind of push through that, like, this is uncomfortable, or I'm really afraid to ask, or I don't want to cross any boundaries, or, you know, whatever it is. But if your gut is telling you there's something a little off, um, and I'm worried about this person and I care about them, then it is always better to check in, um, than to sit on it. So, um, that is just— thank you very, very much. Um, of course, one more question because I'm looking at our time and realizing I want to be respectful of your time here. I'm trying to decide which one I go with here. One thing that people may not know, parents may not know about the, either whether it's the coming out process or about just how to support, best support their LGBTQ loved one. Because kind of just circling back to like what I'd alluded to a little bit before, and that, and you had said this too, parents are learning, adults are learning at a very different rate, especially when it's kind of when a young person comes out to an adult, that young person has had time. That isn't something that they just decide in that day and say, I'm gonna, I am whatever. That is something that they've thought about very, very seriously and, and considered seriously before they share that information. Um, so as an adult receiving that information, what are kind of the best ways that you can receive that and, and support that information, even if you're surprised or shocked or like, kind of like, oh, okay, like in your brain, you're reeling, but what should your mouth be saying?

Yeah. So I'll walk through, as a model, I'll walk through what our crisis services highly trained counselors do when they're taking calls from young people, and I actually think this is such a good framework for having some of these conversations around coming out, too. So what to expect when you call The Trevor Project or chat or text The Trevor Project is connecting with a highly trained counselor. They will open, openly, and actively listen to you, so active listening. They will practice empathy, so not outright rejecting or being standoffish, nothing like that. And they practice non-judgment. So something that I think some parents have a tough time with is one or all three, and keeping those three things in mind can really help you figure out how you want to show up in that moment, right? It might not be— it's something that we talk to young people about, right? Like you want to, you also want to think through how someone might react or receive your information when you share it with them before going through that process, just to make sure you're safety planning for yourself. But in that moment, thinking about those 3 things can be really helpful for parents. I will say, you know, it can mean a lot. Personally, for me, it meant so much for my dad to say, you know, "I'm hearing you, I still love you, and I'd like to talk more about it. Tell me what you're feeling." And it was up to him, I mean, I helped a little bit, but it was up to him to learn more about me and my identity, right? So take it upon yourself after you have that conversation, if you could take some time to take it upon yourself to learn more about LGBTQ identities, your young person's identity specifically, so that you can come to the next conversation with a little more understanding and maybe even a little more empathy, I think that also goes a long way. That also takes the burden off the young person, maybe that's your child, that takes the burden off of them, so instead of educating you about their entire lived experience, you're coming to the conversation with a with knowing a little more.

Absolutely. Oh my goodness. That is one thing that, um, I do talk about a lot because mainly because it's a mistake that we made and we learned from it. And so learning from that, like, just like you said, instead of kind of, um, so in our, in our case, we were like, okay, We were shocked. We were like, okay, great. And then proceeded with like 1,000 questions, which was one of them being, are you sure? Which to this, I mean, now thankfully, you know, it is, we've circled back and healed and now we can laugh about it. But that being said, like, that is kind of one of my big, yes, yes, yes, they're sure. Now I think, okay, what I would, would have liked to have done has been like, awesome, we love you, kind of like your dad did. Like, your dad's a rock star because that's, that's awesome. And then taking a breath and, and kind of stepping back and being like, okay, I need to go like check some things. Trevor Project, you know, and all the others, right? And, and, and learn and then come back with really, um, you know, educated questions, and, and that allows you to hear and listen better, right? Instead of like being in that state of swirling panic.

Absolutely. Checking out The Trevor Project's resources again, another, another plug, thetrevorproject.org/resources. That can be really helpful for parents. I mean, some of the handbooks and the guides, they are meant for young people, but some are specifically meant for parents. On the flip side, if a parent reads something that's meant for a young person, they're still learning about LGBTQ identity, different competencies. Some of those are very 101 entry-level handbooks. So the things that we explain to young people or to allies and adults, it can be very helpful to equip yourself for that next conversation.

Mm-hmm. Absolutely agreed. And that, you know, it's a great place to start, and it's a great place that, you know, if you already kind of know some of those things, then it allows you to ask questions, right? And, and your child or the young person that you, that you are speaking with is not necessarily the person that you should be asking those questions of, right? There, there are other people to ask those questions of, but that's another conversation. So, Kevin, thank you. Thanks so much for being here today and sharing all of this really valuable information. Thank you for everything you all are doing. Truly, it means— I know you know, but it is extraordinary. So thank you so much.

Heather, thank you very much for having me. Thank you for being such a light and a beacon of hope, it sounds like, to so many folks who could use some of your wisdom. So thank you. You're very welcome.

It's my pleasure.