Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - Full Episode

Welcome to Just Breathe, the podcast focused on transforming the LGBTQ+ conversation and supporting you on your journey with your LGBTQ loved one. You are not alone. Welcome to Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen. My name is Heather Hester, and I am excited to be with you to transform the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. Wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone. So I'm really, really excited to share this episode with you that Connor and I put together. We had so much fun writing and recording, and we want you to know that each of the tips that we share come from the heart and come from our personal experience. A quick side note before we begin, I apologize in advance if the sound quality is a little bit off in this episode. Connor and I were experimenting with a new interview program that I wanted to try, and it definitely required a little bit of trial and error. So my apologies, hang in there with us. There's lots of good content. And without further ado, parents, here are a few things your teen wants you to know. Enjoy. So I'm very excited to have Connor with us today, with me today, and, um, One of the things that many, many people have asked as I've been doing this podcast and as I've been doing different writings is if Connor is okay with this. So I thought I would ask Connor since he's here on the phone with us today to give you your thought or his thoughts on that. So Connor, are you okay with me doing this?

I mean, well, this is like, honestly, today was the first time I had heard about you doing this. So I was a little taken aback, but I guess I'm glad that it's working out for you. Jokes, yes, of course. I think it is totally fine. I have given my full permission slash consent slash whatever word you prefer.

Good. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it because this is, well, this is, you know, this is your story and our story as a family, but a lot of it is very personal and very emotional. So I do want everybody out there to know that Connor is fully on board with this, and I do run a lot of things by Connor, uh, behind the scenes as I'm working through shows that I want to do and writing that I want to do. So I'm so glad that you're here today and that we're doing this show together. Um, Connor and I thought it'd be really, really fun and helpful for everyone out there to do a show on what your teenager wants you to know and things that are just really, really important to say to them, to ask them, to not say to them, to not ask them. And we're both going to kind of weigh in on our thoughts on each of these. And, you know, you'll know along the way all of the mistakes that I've made as a parent and ways that we've reconnected and communicated better and learned along the way. So our first one and kind of the biggest one, and I know I've mentioned this one as I've started telling our story, but number one is don't ask them if they are sure. And I know Connor has a lot of thoughts on this, so I'm gonna go ahead and let you weigh in on this one, Connor.

Um, so I think that that's kind of— that was like when you first asked, um, if I was interested in doing, you know, a show together, that this was the primary one that I wanted to address because it's definitely, you know, I feel like that's like a natural reaction as a parent of like, you know, you have this expectation of your child being one way and, you know, sometimes more— it's more of a surprise. And when it is, it's like completely changing your expectations of, you know, the future of your child's life, at least from your perspective. So, but from the perspective of the child, it is very— I'd say not discouraging, but it's like you want your— it's a very, very, very fragile moment for you to be telling your parents, and you really only want to be met with, you know, encouragement and positivity rather than, you know, questioning and making you falter and, you know, stuff of that sort.

And I think the other thing too, this has always stuck with me, you've said this to me and I've read this different places, when your child comes out to you and your teen comes out to you, this isn't something that is just, you know, they've given 30 seconds thought to. This is something they've given a ton of thought to and it takes so much courage for them to tell you that yes, of course they're sure. Oh my goodness, they wouldn't, you know, tell you otherwise. You know, just, I know that's as a parent, that is our, oh my gosh, are you sure? Well, yes, I promise you they are sure. So thank you. Thank you, Connor, for your thoughts on that because that's That was a really, really big one, and I know both Steve and I have been like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we asked that. It's like the worst, we're so sorry. So the second one that we came up with is tell them that it doesn't change how you see them and how much you love them, and that You know, by that, obviously things will shift as far as, you know, what you need to learn and what your child is going through. But the really important stuff, your deep unconditional love for your child, your support of your child, just make sure that they know that that is not going to change. That doesn't change at all. All, and, and just kind of normalize it by, you know, I, like, I tell Connor all the time, you know, this, there's, we've been through a lot of stuff. I'm, I'm still his mom and he's, he's still my kid. And, you know, he'll, he'll always be my kid and always be his mom, and I will always love him unconditionally no matter what goes on. So this is a really important thing to make sure that your child really, really understands. Connor, do you have anything you'd like to add?

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is, you know, just knowing that we— that your parents still care for you, still love you, still see, you know, don't see you any differently other than the fact that you're expressing yourself to a truer extent than you were before. But I think what goes along with that is, you know, we are so afraid even today, but more so, you know, earlier generations have been so afraid to come out because all we see are these, you know, these horror stories of people coming out and getting thrown out into the streets because yeah, there are still bad people out there and I'm going to call them bad people because they aren't capable of loving their child just because their child's expressing themselves in their truest self or their most authentic self. And I think there's a base understanding that if you're listening to this podcast, you wouldn't do that to your child. So congratulations, you're not a bad person. But I guess that's I just, I think you really need to like let your child know, just like be until they're annoyed with it even, you know, just really hammer it home that you do not see them any differently. You're just like, you are happy for them and that's all you should be is happy that they're able to express themselves and they're comfortable expressing themselves around you.

I think that's a really, really good point. Yeah. First of all, welcome to a show with, with a a teenager who says exactly what they think, so, you know, just buckle your seatbelts. I did tell Connor he wasn't allowed to swear on this because then we'd have to rate it differently, but other than that, you are going to get some— his true authentic thoughts on things. But yes, he is right about, you know, you can't say it enough, and don't worry about annoying them or overdoing it because especially right at the beginning, they're just gonna soak it up, and that's exactly what they need from you. And, and, and even, you know, where Connor is now, I mean, you know, I, I say things to him all the time. I, I don't really care if it annoys him because I, I know deep inside he really loves it.

So yes, positive affirmation is never a bad thing.

That's right, exactly. So on to the next one, um, and I love this one for so many reasons, is establishing boundaries. I have begun to talk about this a little bit, um, I think in the last podcast I did or the one before, talking about the importance of boundaries. But this is really, really important both for you as a parent and for your teenager. Be very clear on what your boundaries are so that both of you are comfortable with whatever it is that you're discussing. And that's not to say that you're not gonna have really uncomfortable discussions because I promise you, you will. But the more clear that you can be and just really honest about what you are able to discuss or, you know, there are certain things that we as parents just don't need to know. It's not gonna help anything. It's not gonna help us support our child better. It's not going to help them if we know it, and vice versa. Connor, what would you— I know you have some thoughts on this too.

Yes, I do. So I think the, you know, the biggest way this, like, boundaries is obviously a very broad thing, but you know, you're coming out, being a part of the LGBT community in one form or another is connected to, you know, sexual or gender expression and what that means to you. Which typically then surrounds, you know, love and dating and relationships and, you know, just the way that you outwardly express yourself and inwardly express yourself. So it's a lot of really personal and touchy subjects that, you know, a lot of people don't want to discuss with their parents, especially not when they're like newly out of the closet and still figuring out what their identity is to that. You shouldn't treat them any different in the sense like you shouldn't treat it any differently than if you were having a straight child. You know, you're not gonna ask your straight child if they're, you know, having sex, or maybe you will, but like you should probably avoid it. And you know, like you don't pry into knowing, you know, exactly who they like and exactly like that might not be something that your kid's comfortable with. So I guess like without getting too into it, You will need to have some confrontation and some tough conversations or awkward conversations at least. But I can say that by having these conversations with my parents and setting boundaries and being very clear about what I am comfortable talking about and what I'm not so comfortable talking about, it has made discussing things today especially so much easier and so much less stressful. And we're able to communicate effectively without having to worry about, you know, offending one another or, you know, argue. Like, just, it's, it's a lot easier, trust me.

Yes, I, I would definitely agree with that. And, and then that's come with a lot of messing up along the way, right?

3 years of intensive family therapy does get you to a great place conversationally, it turns out.

Yes. But, you know, I will, I will tell you all that You know, initially when Connor did come out to us, you know, we did ask all of these questions. Is there somebody you're interested in? Do you like somebody at school? We had so many questions and it wasn't because we were trying to, you know, get into his business. It was, we were trying to wrap our heads around this and we were also surprised. We were a little bit blindsided by it. So, but it is, you know, like we had, We had initially said to Connor, you know, our rules for dating are the same for you as they would be for your sisters and your little brother. And so, you know, and I think over the past 3 years we have learned a lot. I think in general, like Connor said, you wouldn't ask details. Of course you're not gonna ask your child details. You don't wanna know details from your gay child any more than you want details from your straight child. However, What I will say is that you want your child to be safe. And so to that extent, that's kind of our job as the parent is to make sure that your child is safe and in every possible way, not just when it comes to dating and to sex and to, you know, asking all these questions and knowing all the different things that are out there. You know, it's part of the whole education process and just you know, looking at this as another way that you are becoming educated, that, you know, I— we both look at this as, you know, kind of the more you know, the better you're able to handle what comes at you and to be able to handle it and very calmly and thoughtfully. So Right?

Yes, without going into crisis. Yes, operating in crisis doesn't work. We've proved that time and time again.

We've tried that route, and, um, I'm not a big fan. Yeah, I don't, I don't think you are either.

Not really, not much.

Oh my gosh. So I like how this one kind of rolls into the next one, which is, um, don't push for information. And that does work well with setting boundaries. You are going to have a million questions, and that's okay. And, you know, having questions is part of keeping an open dialogue and a transparent dialogue. But once you start to push for answers, it's just not gonna work. Let them come to you when they're ready to discuss. Just as long as you let them know that you are available, that you are open, they will come to you and talk to you when they are ready. And I know Connor, you have some good thoughts on this, so I'll let you go ahead.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that like for me, The perspective I would ask, you know, if you're a parent, if you, whatever your relationship is, realize that for a lot of people, their coming out journey and coming out of the closet is like one of their biggest secrets they've had, you know, up to that point in their life. Like I say, you know, at least from my perspective, I'll say from my perspective, when I was 16, that was by far the biggest secret I was keeping from anyone is the fact that I was not in fact straight. And I did not fit into that whole stereotype of the North Shore. So it was a really big deal when I eventually did come out. I mean, granted, the situation was interesting, but that was like telling my parents my biggest secret. But then after that, it became, okay, well, the next part is this component of my sexuality and this part about being gay and the boundaries that I do want to set and the stuff that I do want to tell them. It kind of, like, each part kind of becomes your biggest, like, it's like the next biggest thing. And so, but eventually it does get easier, you know, when you see your parents aren't reacting like radically or freaking out or, you know, automatically trying to fix it or anything, but like just taking what you're telling them, sitting with it and not reacting, not reacting in any way that's other than positive. You know, because then that builds up that trust and that relationship like boundary, like setting boundaries does. And it'll make it, you know, you'll become a much more, I don't know, just like a much more welcome person to, for your child to come to. Like I know, especially with my mom, it's like, you know, being able to tell her things and like when I have been struggling and the situation being handled appropriately and without, going into crisis mode has shown, okay, I can rely on my mom and my parents to help me through these things. So that was my long-winded answer to that.

No, that's very good. And that's really, really important. And I think the only other thing that I wanted to add too is something that you and I had talked about. You don't know all the answers. They don't know all the answers yet.

That's true.

So which is something that we, you know, we don't know all the answers. And so, you know, like Connor said, this is, this is a huge, huge step for them to be able to not only say it out loud to you as their parent, but to kind of wrap their head around this realization and this is who they are. And they don't necessarily know what comes next. They don't know that the next step. I mean, that's why there are all these steps to the coming out process because it is, it's a major process and it does take time. So this is just, I think, you know, like Connor said, like I said, just the biggest thing is to, you know, just be available and to let them know that you're there and you will end up having to do a lot of deep breathing and that's okay. Yes. We like deep breathing.

But it's a lot of change, you know, there's a lot of, you know, radical acceptance and radical change going on.

And radical love.

Yes. Yes. Oh no.

Thanks. Oh my gosh. So our next thought, our next idea that we wanted to pass along to you is to work together as a team. You and your child, you know, parents and child, and allow your child to guide who they want to come out to and when. And the really important thing I know, depending on whether you had, you know, you knew that your child was gay and you were waiting for them to come out, or if you were on the opposite end of the spectrum like we were and we had no idea. So We kind of went into this place of, oh my goodness, it's easy to get wrapped up in your own space of telling, you know, who do I tell? Can I tell anybody? Should I tell anybody? What are they going to think? And this whole— this isn't about you. Yes, you are as a family experiencing this, and this is definitely part of the family experience, part of the parent-child relationship experience. Remember that the coming out in and of itself, this is your child's, this is your teenager's. And so it's really important for you to really discuss this and be, you know, work together to decide, okay, this is who we wanna tell, this is when, and let your child guide that. This is not your story to tell. This is their story to tell. This is their story to share when they are ready to share it. We're just their supporting role, the support. They are the lead actor here. Connor, is there anything that you'd like to add to that?

It's like, once again, it's like you had said, it's your child's journey. It's my journey. It's not your guys' journey. And there's, I think, I mean, at least from personal experience, once again, I want to speak from personal experience that, you know, when I was told, not that I was like told like, you can't come out to these people, but like, you know, there were specific people, um, that we had kind of decided, but it was more so like you guys had wanted, and which I understood, but like you guys had wanted to maybe hold off on talking or mentioning it to, uh, you know, at least until we could kind of discuss it more, which was like reasonable. But there is still that part that like, you know, even though I could understand it logically, there's still that emotional part of my brain that's thinking like, okay, well, I guess, you know, like that, that is something that like I do— I need to hide, I need to conceal, that people won't accept. And like You know, every day that's becoming less and less so the case. And you know, my very honest opinion is if it's someone that you are worried to, you know, tell, do not give them that much mental real estate because if it's someone who you're worried about accepting your child or accepting you, then that's prob— like in 2020, like that's really not someone that you need to worry about because they are not important and they need to get with the times because Homophobia is— and transphobia is so outdated.

There you go.

And that's that on that.

And there we have it, Connor's thoughts on that. But he's right. I mean, he's absolutely right. And it was something, you know, again, we were so inside of our heads that we did not even consider the message that it was sending him. Multiple messages there, you know, message of fear, a message of secrecy, a message of that there was something wrong with it. And so on one hand, we're giving him, we're saying to him, we support you 100%, we are here for you. And yet on the other hand, we're saying, but we're not gonna tell these people yet. And so it was definitely, you know, now that we look back, we totally see what a mixed message that was sending and certainly understand understand the error of doing it that way. So that was a really, a really big one that we wanted to pass along to all of you. As big as their coming out experience is, as a parent, I understand this is— it is big for us too, in a totally different way. Just a good one to remember. And that one actually does lead really, really well into the next one too, which is to be transparent in your thoughts and authentic with what, what you're thinking and what you're feeling. But if you are really, really struggling with either something that has happened, something that your child has shared with you, you know, anything, if there is a struggle, if you're struggling still, you know, with just the coming out, these are things that you take to your therapist. Or, you know, whomever your support person or people are. This is not something you take to your child. They are super, super vulnerable, A. B, they're your child. It's not their responsibility to hold your hand and walk you through your difficult emotions. That's our job. For them. So it's a delicate balance of being transparent, being authentic. It is perfectly okay for your child to see that you have emotions and see you express your emotions. But when it comes to expressing that deep struggle, and you'll know, your intuition, your gut will tell you This is not appropriate. I need to take this to somebody else. And again, you know, whomever your support person or support people are, take it there instead. Connor, anything you want to add to that?

Again, I say this from a place not necessarily having been in a situation. Well, actually, no, not at all. You guys have never met my struggles, my coming out and, you know, whatever degree with any sort of negativity. So I can't say from personal experience, but what I can say is, yeah, there's absolutely no reason that your prejudices, the way you were raised, whatever you believe in, that should never come before the love for your child. And you should be able to love your child unconditionally, no matter who they are, no matter how they express them. Um, it is not a choice. It is 100% the way they were born. And that's not something— to attack your child for something that they cannot change is very— yeah, you know, there's not words for how bad that is. So that's my angsty rage-fueled answer to that. So I guess, you know, there's probably some, like, some answer in there somewhere.

I think, I think you did a good job of expressing how you felt on that. Definitely. That's okay. That's that. Yeah, I like, I like the real Connor. Bring it on.

It's a good balance. It's a good cop, bad cop.

So this next one kind of goes along with several of the earlier ones. Don't make assumptions. Allow their process to unfold. Allow your own process to unfold. And I know it's hard because we're always, you know, wanting to know what, you know, what's next and what's going to happen next and be prepared. Um, this is truly, truly a lesson in being present and allowing things to happen at the pace that they are meant to happen, that they need to happen, um, and to not rush them. Because anything that's rushed, anything that's pushed, is not going to happen in an authentic way. It's not going to, for you or for your child, um, going to be hurried and, and messier than it already is. That's, that's my thoughts on, on that. Connor, do you have anything you'd like to add to that?

Yes, uh, so I mean, I think it's really, it's hard to hear, you know, like this piece of advice, I think in particular, just like, you know, kind of know that there's relax and that there's going to be like, you know, everything's going to work out because, you know, you're probably, if you're at the beginning of the process, either as a child or as the parent or whatever your relationship may be, you know, it is a time of chaos and confusion and wanting answers and not having them and not knowing how you're going to get them. But the biggest thing is to not act out of a rushed place, out of a scared place, out of any sort of negative energy. Because what happens is you end up in 7 months of rehab, and we don't want that for anyone else. I experienced that, so now we can say, tell this story so then you don't have to. So the biggest thing is, like, you know, we, we're able to be able to say this, and with the perspective that my mom and I both have, having had plenty of intensive family therapy and plenty of other programs to, like, really flesh out what this process is about. And while it is like, I remember when I first came out, like the first, when I first realized I was gay, like that first moment, it was like, it's kind of like, oh, well that like, you know, whatever perfect little marriage and perfect little like straight boring life that I had planned out for myself, white picket fence and all, was no longer a reality. And so like, I get that then thinking, well darn, what the heck's gonna happen? It doesn't need to be that. One of the most— I think it's cliché, but it really holds true— is it really is one day at a time. You know, you did not find out you were gay overnight. You did not get the courage to tell your parents or tell whoever or tell yourself that you're a member of the LGBT community. That didn't happen overnight. That took a lot of time. So like, this is not like— you're not going to come out one day and then it's all going to be, you know, just made for you. Like, I think that was my biggest misconception, was realizing, well, coming out was the very, very beginning of it, and there was— there's still so much that I have to, like, learn and come into my own and to really figure out. So I guess, you know, just you can't have expectations for how it's gonna go other than, you know, kind of just buckle up and enjoy the ride. Um, like my mom said, don't force anything.

That was very well said. That was very, very well said. And, um, and I mean, obviously spot on because it's been our experience, but, um, I think so spot on to share with all of you out there. Um, I remember this, this just sparked a memory for me when when you said this, Connor, about the, you know, what you envision for yourself, right? Well, you know, as parents, we all do that, right? As soon as we have— we have these babies, and the first minute you look at them, you, you know, you're— you love these from the second that they arrive. You just love these yummy little babies. And, and as they start to grow and, um, you know, you start to see what they— what their little personalities are and what they enjoy doing and what they're good at and, and what their passions are. And you start to, you know, imagine what their futures are going to be, right? So I know one of the first things that, you know, I was talking to, um, a really good friend, and I was like, it is— for me, I'm not sad that Connor's gay, I had to take a little time to mourn my— it was the movie reel, you know, it's this movie reel we create from the time that our babies are born, right, of their whole lives. And so my movie reel had changed for Connor and not changed in a bad way, it just changed to something different. And it changed very quickly. And so for me, it was taking that little bit of time to be like, to recognize that and be okay with that and then just keep moving forward because, you know, the movie reel that we have now and watching Connor, you know, grow and learn and explore and experience, and this is so extraordinary and it's been extraordinary for all 6 of us really. It's a beautiful gift, and I am grateful for this every day, as difficult as it has been at times. It's a gift. So moving on, we are getting there. We just have a few more. The next two kind of flow together, so I'm gonna put them together, and they are all about support. And I'm not gonna go a ton into this because I know I touched on it in the last episode, so I'm just gonna touch on it a little bit Connor, I'm going to let you give your thoughts on. Again, really, really, really important that you make sure that your child has the support that they need and not what you think that they need, but what, what they need, and they'll express to you what kind of support they're needing. I mean, you might have to kind of tee it up a little bit, give them their options of what's available, but allow them to really Once you let them know that it's okay and this is— having this kind of support is good and helpful, they'll let you know what they need. And that can be therapist, it can be a mentor, it can be support groups. The biggest thing, especially for your child, but even for you, which we found is super helpful, is to be around professionals and peers who understand the LGBTQ community and who are on a similar journey. So, you know, for Connor, what we found after trial and error was that, you know, from day one, he really needed a therapist who was a gay man. Period. Because only another gay man is going to understand what Connor is going through. And, and that's something that we kind of tripped around and took us a while to figure out. So there it is. I'm giving that to you on a silver platter. And, you know, flip for, for us as parents, we needed support from people who could help educate us, who could you know, who had been there, who have been there, who are there, who, you know, whether it was, you know, our, you know, we have a therapist that we see as a couple. She is a gay woman. We have, you know, we've been to parent support groups with other parents who have gay children. These are all really, really important pieces for both of you. And Connor, I'll turn it over to you because I know you have some good thoughts on this as well.

Well, yeah, I think, you know, it— the great thing about this is the more options you can give the— your child and the more autonomy you can give them into their coming out process and seeking support and all of that, um, the better, because it really— it'll show you know, that you want this to be theirs and you want them to feel like it's theirs. Because if you— if they feel like they're being forced one way or another, you know, again from personal experience, that, you know, being an angsty, depression-riddled, newly gay teen, you know, when my parents said one thing, I was going to do everything in my power to do the exact opposite. So You know, the more freedom, the more leeway you give them into like figuring this out, the more they're going to, you know, it's just gonna go so much smoother and so much less conflict. And it's just gonna be so much less of, you know, not that it's a negative experience, but it's just there's that, you know, by letting your child choose, there's like, it doesn't open up the door to like negativity, if that makes sense.

Right, well, there's a lot of stuff that you are going through that the teen is going through, right? So there's a ton of emotions there because you, I mean, we've talked about this so many times that it's not just that you are embracing your authentic self, who you were born to be, right? It is that you're also just at the heart of it, you are an angsty teenager. You are, which by definition means you are moody, your hormones are all over the place, you're, you know, your brain isn't fully developed. And so it's all these— it is just a whole lot of stuff going on. So yeah, so any place that you can definitely where your child feels like it's their idea and where you can communicate with them so they're not feeling like you're telling them to do things, but they are part of the decision, it will work out a million times better for you. So this kind of moves us into our final one, which is, and it's a big one, and it's, it's one of my favorites, and it's to tell them how proud you are of them, that you, not only that you're proud, but you recognize how difficult it must have been for them to come to you, that you see and you recognize and you just how brave they are, how courageous they are. And this, using this, you know, these are, this is the kind of language that you want to use and that you cannot use enough of because they can't hear enough of it. Make sure that they really, really feel like you couldn't be more proud of anything that they've ever done in their whole lives than this, because this is a huge, huge stop. Connor.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, you know, like I said, and like we've touched on several times, you know, this is a very, very, very sensitive time. And, you know, you really need all the positivity you can get. It's such a, you know, with everything kind of changing, it's just like, it's nice to have like the consistency of knowing like, yeah, like this is something I should be proud of. This isn't something I should be afraid of. This isn't something I should hide. And you know, it really is something that you should celebrate. And the more that you can really hammer that home for your kid, for whoever this is, whoever this significant person is to you that is a member of the LGBT community, of any community, that you know you're proud of them, you're proud of the fact that they could come to you and tell you their darkest secret, their biggest secret, or one of their biggest secrets, and you know, being fully willing to accept, you know, however you'll react. Like, that takes a lot of bravery. I think that, you know, I'm rambling at this point, but it just, it is, it's so important just to like say like you're proud, you know. It will, it's a small little thing like that that you can consistently do that'll just improve the situation for your kid. You know, tenfold. Like, you don't— yeah, I'm trembling.

Right. Well, and I think that's— no, not at all. I just, I think that's— I mean, I think this is a really beautiful way to, to wrap up because it is those little things that we, we kind of forget about, right? We're in the middle of, um, you know, wherever you are on this journey, it is big. Everything about it is big. And, um, I think sometimes we forget that The little moments, the little things, saying that we're proud, telling them that we appreciate them, reminding them that we love them, things that you see and observe and think about. These are all just really, really important small things along the way that will make your journey just that much more enjoyable and that much more beautiful. So this is where Connor and I are going to stop for today. Connor, do you have any last words that you'd like to share before we end?

Well, yes. I mean, once again, I think, you know, as I've said, you know, I've given full permission, rights, whatever words you want to use, to my mom to kind of divulge into the details of our, you know, chaotic past couple years. And you know, I think it really is, it's a big part of your child's journey, your loved one's journey. Just, you know, just be patient and just really kind of give credit where credit's due because it's a huge step that your child's bringing you into their coming out journey. That's all I got, sorry.

No, that's good. That's really good. All right, well, I just want to say thank you for doing this with me today. This was really, really fun. And for, you know, being willing to, you know, be vulnerable and to kind of have your life on display to a certain extent, so that hopefully other people can either learn something or be helped or, you know, whatever we can do. So thank you so much, Connor, for just being you, and I love you so much, and I am—

love you too—

so very proud of you.

Thank you.

All right, well everyone, Connor's back to— off to NYU, or back to NYU after an awesome Christmas and holiday break, and it's been so nice to have him home and, um, to be able to to sneak in an interview with him before he leaves me again. So, um, all right, this is where we'll leave you for today. Thanks so much for listening.

Bye, thank you.