What Celebrity Chef James Barry Wants You to Know | Heather Aardema

You have worked as a private chef for celebrities like Tom Cruise. We've all heard of Tom Cruise. And so you have been in professional kitchens for years. So I'm assuming you've seen the best of the best. My first question for you is, when you walk in the typical home kitchen, what kind of clutter do you notice first?

So not necessarily the celebrity kitchens, you're saying just the generic home kitchen? It's easy to contrast them. The celebrity kitchens have nothing on the countertop except that which is by their diet, uh, by their— for design. So like there might be flowers, there might be some decoration, but otherwise there's nothing on the countertops.

So it's just that, like, I'm imagining that, and it's just calm, it's serene.

Yeah, I mean, everything has— in a celebrity kitchen, everything has a place. Now, of course, I'm talking about the designer kitchens, like where the celebrity had their kitchen or their house actually built from scratch so they could calculatedly figure out where is everything going to go, right? So that if it's a good designer, they figure it out, everything has its place. If it's a— there's obviously different degrees of wealth and celebrity. I've worked with celebrities that didn't build their house from scratch, but still have a really nice house. And those ones, they're still very impeccable, still have, you know, lots of space to store things. Usually that walk-in closet is— it's fascinating. The pantry is also extremely pristine. And that's, that's pretty much across the board in celebrity kitchens. And it's usually because, and this is really, this is really to, you know, remove any shame or just any discouragement from anyone listening is that it's because the majority of these celebrities, they have someone who's running the household. So that person's job is to organize everything, to make sure that it's always stocked, but to stock it in an organized manner.

So let's, let's talk about kitchen clutter, um, or what I'm curious about your perspective. What, what would, what does that even mean? Kitchen clutter for you?

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a phenomenon of more recent times, right? So where we have this influx of very cheap and creative tech, right? So back in the day you had a mixer, you know, maybe a Cuisinart, you had knives, you had pans. That was it. Like, you didn't have a slicer for eggs, a specific blender that you only use to make ice cream. You know, like, I'm just trying to think of, like, these devices, something that you only use for pancakes and then something else that you use for waffles, like an appliance for one use. That's unheard of back in the day, right? So that's really what the clutter is, is that we're being sold these conveniences that we think we need, but the reality is, do you really need that ice cream cone maker? You know, the one that only makes the waffle cones that you, you, you know, you wrap yourself? Like, how often are you eating ice cream that you need to make your own waffle cone maker?

Right. Right. There's an abundance of tools that you could choose. And, and, and so do you see that happening where we're buying all these tools and then never using them? Or what do you think?

Well, The way to know what not to buy is to go to, during the summer or when the warmer months are here, go to the yard sales. And the thing that you see consistently that everyone's selling, whether it's a waffle maker or that, you know, whatever it is, you know, back in the day, I'm just thinking of like exercise equipment. I saw like ThighMasters from Suzanne Somers. They were everywhere. It was like, yeah, everyone bought them, but no one used them. You know, and I would really think about just my kind of criteria is if it's something I'm only going to use once, I do not buy it. I mean, and if it's something I'm only doing once a month, that's even also potentially a no buy because most likely if it's something I'm doing once a month, it's probably something I don't actually need. Like, I don't like, meaning I don't need it in my body. Like, I, cause it's probably a treat and it's, it's probably not an essential. It's not something to fuel my body. It's just something to appease my body. And in that situation, I'd rather just go out and let someone else, you know, make it for me. I will say the caveat is when you have extreme sensitivities and/or extreme diet needs, like I know we actually have a common friend who is extremely sensitive to foods and to the point where she even brings food with her when she travels. Like in that case, yeah, I get it. Like, of course you have to make everything from scratch. So get your tools. But I, but, but then, and this is, you know, to your point really is like, but then it's now, it's not just about, is this something I want in my diet? Is this something I want cluttering my kitchen? Right. So, so now it's beyond just your health. Now it's also like, well, wait, am I co-creating the space? That I want that's conducive towards my well-being and health? That's a whole— sometimes those are different answers.

I hear you on that. And so I am so curious, what do you think a person's kitchen reveals about them? If you were to walk in, you know, 10, you know, go into 10 kitchens, right? But unannounced, what do you think? What do you think it reveals about them?

Oh, Everything, just like a car. I would say more. The spaces that we use the most often, how those are kept, reveal everything about the person. I am known for going into people's kitchens and opening their pantries. And people, like, no one does that, right? No one, like, is meeting someone the first time and then says, you know, starts opening their pantries and just, like, is looking. I do that because I just find it either fascinating or revealing. And I, I will say, like, I've been to really close friends' houses, and for the most part, their kitchens are okay. There, there, there's a lot of junk everywhere, in my opinion, but where it really shows up is when you open their food pantry and they've just got food pouring out of it. You can tell that no one's actually tracking what's in there. They've got 6 of the same thing because no one's aware. There's no order to it. So I, I am— I tend to believe that if your kitchen is chaotic, then you're probably— your health is as well. I think it's representative of how healthy you are.

Yeah. And I think you're saying that in a neutral way without any judgment or shame, that it's just, you know, if you're, if you're not feeling well, you know, if you don't like the results that you have when it comes to your health and your wellbeing, one place you could look is in the kitchen. And how are you showing up for yourself in the kitchen is probably directly linked to how you're feeling.

Well, and let's use this as an example. So like if you open up the refrigerator, is the refrigerator spare, but then the freezer is not. So the freezer's packed, but the refrigerator's spare. So on a certain level, people will go, well, of course the freezer's gonna be packed cuz you, you know, you're only eating those things so often. But I would say, well, but that tells me that you're eating more ultra-processed foods that are pre-frozen than you are fresh food. Right. And, but you still don't want your refrigerator to be, to be packed with all this fresh produce because then you're going to have waste. Because the one that this is really important piece is that, you know, the, there are, have been studies that basically like you go to the grocery store, you get some broccoli, you bring it home. They've measured by the time you actually go to eat that broccoli, it is completely devoid of nutrients.

Wow.

Because there's the time that it took to get to the grocery store first. Then there's the time before you purchase it at the grocery store and then you bought it and you put in your fridge. So the amount of time that that broccoli has not been, you know, in the ground and attached to something that feeds it, it's basically dead. And of course, visually it looks dead when it turns yellow, but it can still be green and still have no nutrients just because it's been off the, you know, out of the ground for too long. And so one thing that people, you wanna think about if you wanna have, you know, a more nutritious viewpoint on your, on your your kitchen is to, first of all, when you bring in produce, really you want to be like 1 to 3 days. Don't, don't go beyond 3 days because it's just gonna get even worse. It's gonna get more and more devoid of nutrition. Secondly, you want to think about how am I storing it. You do not want to store it in the plastic that you purchased in because you're just suffocating it. It's a plant. It's a living thing, right? So a lot of times what you want to do, if it's herbs, you want to put them in glass with water, treat it like flowers, but it still goes in your refrigerator because the coldness is going to slow down its kind of ripening or its aging, right? But you do want to store it in that water as though it's a, it's flowers because it's going to last longer. And the same thing is true with anything that is cut from a plant like that. Like, so asparagus, even broccoli, you could technically put it in a little bowl with some water that is going to keep it alive and just more vibrant longer.

This may seem so basic to you, but this is new to me. I never kept things in the plastic bags because we don't even take the plastic bags home from the store. But I've never put asparagus in water before. I'm excited to start doing this.

Yeah, I mean, the more you can think about even having like a little herb garden in your kitchen near the windowsill, like the better. The more you can have things that are still living and you're just cutting them as you use them. That's going to be your most optimal way to maintain your kitchen, but also your health. Because, well, really it's also more planetary, right? Because you're not going out and you're not purchasing these herbs that grow so easily. They, they're, they, they grow like weeds in there. It's so easy. It's the first urban garden everyone should have is an herb garden because it's so, so easy. And you only use a little bit at a time anyway. I mean, I never Anyone ever buy thyme at the store and you use it all? Or I've never had it all get used, like, unless I'm cooking for other people. But if I'm at home, there's always about 3/4 of it that goes bad because I only need a little bit.

Yeah.

Right. So, so I'm always thinking like that. I mean, in many ways, the, the amounts that we get— so a lot of people are shopping at Costco, right? But even if you go to the gro— the normal mom-and-pop grocery store, everything is— the amount that's in what you're purchasing is based off of what that company needs it to be, the size it needs to be to profit. A lot of times we're buying things, and this was huge back in the day when the Ben Jerry's pints were there, is everyone was like, oh, well, it's a pint, like, I should just eat the whole thing. Like, we were thinking that Ben Jerry was giving us the portion that fit a serving. You know, and then only later did you start to see the tiny little cups that were sold and they were like, oh no, this is a portion. And you're like, I've been mistreating, you know, I've been visually mistreating myself here. But, but I think that's happening across the board is we, we, you know, we see the basket of fruit and it's already, you know, pre-priced for you or something. We think, well, that's what we should get. But the reality is, is your lifestyle may not fit that. That might be too much. That may, that may mean you're going to only eat like 3 of them and the other 4 are going to go bad. So you really have to like use your emotional intelligence to know like, well, does this actually fit my lifestyle? And then even more importantly, does it fit my work week?

Those are great questions to ask yourself. James, you just took me back to my college years, decades and decades and decades ago, where I would have a pint of ice cream every single night because I thought that was what you did. And because it was so delicious and I was so unhealthy with all those pints of ice cream adding up. So thanks for that, that memory. You know, you talk a lot about a broken food system, and I agree with you. I would like to know why you specifically believe that, though. Why is our food system broken? How is it broken?

It's broken on a few levels. So there's the obvious one of like our soil systems aren't what they were. And this is, this is not something I'm just getting from books or just inventing. It's like anyone can do the research. The government, the US government has been tracking our soil degradation and the nutrition in the food that comes from those soils since I think the late '50s. So they have all this data of just decades of data and it shows, the graph shows like, and then it just to '26, it's just going down. And that's soil health. That's also seeds. I mean, it's transportation when you pull a tomato when it's green and then you have to spray it with a substance to turn it red. You know, that's because they're they're freighting all those tomatoes so far. And if they have them already ripened, they'll be smushy and they'll, they'll lose their, you know, they won't make any money off of that. So it's all, it's ultimately all about money. It's all about yields. How much can I get from the smallest plot of land? Of course. So that's, that's the obvious stuff. The other stuff is that we're continuing to lead these very busy lives. We're continuing to outsource our health. So we are the only species in the world that looks to someone else to tell us what to eat.

Wow.

Right. We, you know, and that's, that's even more humbling when you think about how many species there are. There's 9 million species. So the fact that we're not different than all those other species, we are just simply, we've created a world that doesn't, isn't conducive towards looking inward or towards listening inward. And we've confused ourselves and we're just, just not doing our humanity much service in this modern lifestyle. So one thing is, is that People are outsourcing. They're looking for prepackaged foods. You can never rely on anyone else making you healthy except for yourself. You have to have your own agency because they're— a restaurant, a grocery store, they're all focused on their bottom line. They're all trying to survive and make a profit. That's not wrong. They're businesses. That's what they should be doing. But it's wrong for us to assume that because it's in the grocery store, that means it's healthy. Because the health restaurant that's called Whole Earth has that very earthy name and it makes you think it's healthy, that doesn't mean it is healthy, right? The only way to truly be healthy is to master your own kitchen, to choose the fats, the oils that you're gonna use, to choose the proteins that you're gonna use, make sure that they fit your standards and really your desired outcome. I would say that that's the biggest one. And then of course, on another angle is, you know, we're raising kids that don't even realize that bacon is from a pig, you know, comes from a pig, or that chickens aren't skinless and boneless, you know what I mean? Like, we've moved so far away. Like, when my mother was a child in the 1950s in Brooklyn, there were poultry, live poultry markets. They would go to the market, they would go to the markets, they would see living chickens, and they would point one out, say, I like that one. Then the store would take it, and then they would leave, and they would come back an hour later, and they would have a you know, plucked, dressed chicken ready for them to take home and cook. It was that fresh. So there was an absolute connection between this is a living animal or being to now it's my food.

Such a massive disconnect. I agree with you. So, so over the last 20 or so years, we've had different flocks of chickens in our backyards and we don't have any right now. Just, we, there was some massacres, uh, some, um, predator animals came through and ended that for us. But I'll tell you, years ago, my dear older sister, One of my favorite people in the whole wide world, she came to visit and she wanted to go get the eggs. Getting the eggs was the job of our kids. And she's like, please, please, can I go get the eggs? Can I go get the eggs? And she came back, she's like, I don't know why, but that felt so good. It felt so good to go and get the eggs. And I said, I don't know why, but I think it's because you're feeling so connected to your food supply right now. That connection has just been removed from us over the last decades. And so that was her first, like, real connection with going and getting eggs for the first time versus just buying them at the grocery store.

And I think it's important to remember, you know, we are— we're humans. We're in, in this body that we've dubbed Homo sapiens, right? But the Homo sapiens body has been around for hundreds of, like, thousands and thousands of years, right? So if you look at the way we're eating and even the lifestyle we're living, this is a lifestyle that's, what, 100 years old? I mean, it's, it's, it's minutes in terms of our bodies, our body ecology, in terms of that, the lifetime of not just you, but I'm talking the Homo sapiens, you know, biology. It's, it's a pinprick compared to what we actually were developed to, the lifestyle this body was developed to process, the foods that we were developed to absorb and get nutrients from. Like, it's very lopsided. For— so for any of us to assume like, oh yeah, I got this, it's like, no, you don't. Like, like, we are living in a very foreign world from how this body was designed. And so what— that's why I'm always emphasizing and why I really push not only ancestral foods, so foods that our bodies were eating back in the day, but also just I'm always pushing for us to just try to do our best to go inward and instead of asking the questions outward, but go inward and say like, what does my body need? And the really, the only way to create a clear communication pathway with what's going on inwardly and then with what you're actually feeding yourself is you have to eat it. And that may sound like, well, duh, of course I have to eat it. But no, no, no. Most of us are swallowing capsules to supplement our diets. Most of us are eating while we're driving. We're multitasking. That's not actually eating. Eating is where you're sitting in parasympathetic mode. You're breathing and eating, and you're like not overstimulated with anything else but the actual moment of just eating. That is how we ancestrally used to eat. And that process of eating, that neuro-lingual response, is a communication pathway that, that will support your inward knowledge of what you need.

Yeah, I always thought that there, you, you know, if you're driving and eating, how in the world are you getting any nutrients from the food that you're, you're getting if you're doing so many different things? But when you say, like, when you're sitting in that parasympathetic state and really absorbing, eating the foods and absorbing the foods, it just, it just sounds like such a different experience, night and day.

Well, you know, the food pyramid just was announced, you know, they brought back the food pyramid and they turned it upside down and all, and everyone's kind of making a big to-do about what's not on it or what is on it. But I still think that we're overcomplicating. Like, if I— my food pyramid would be very simple. So at the top of the pyramid, you are looking for foods that have, uh, foods that have flavors found in nature. So not natural flavors, because those are added flavors. But foods that have flavors that are found in nature. Then in the middle of the pyramid, nutrient-dense foods. So that's foods that are ingredients versus have ingredients.

Say more about that.

Well, so really there's, you know, these are, you know, the foods that are on the outside aisles. These are the foods that aren't overly processed. They're just simply like whole, they're whole foods. They're, they're what some people might call God foods or Mother Nature foods. Like, that's kind of how I talk about organ meats even. Like, organ meats are Mother Nature's multivitamin. So we're not doing anything to them, we're just making them accessible. But this is a whole food, just like an egg is a perfect food. It's a whole food. The key is when you start messing with it. Like, so when you take that egg and then you only use the egg whites, that's no longer a whole food. Or when you take that You know, you take the idea of an egg and you try to create fake or faux egg whites, right? So when we try to like manipulate Mother Nature and turn it into something that's more like cognitive or just that appeases our, our, our funny ways, our funny human ways, now we're, we're, we're changing the kind of nutritional load that that food has. I mean, the fact, you know, and anyone can look this up, but like vitamin C, for example, iron even is another example, but back in the day, they're always trying to recreate great food in, in the laboratory. And when they were doing like vitamin C, they kept— they keep trying, oh well, this will support colds. But then for so long they just isolated a very specific part of the vitamin C, right, the ascorbic acid or whatnot. And, and then they didn't realize that we actually don't absorb that very well, that you need the rose hips, you need other parts that usually are in the orange, the whole food that you're eating. And the same thing with iron. They used to give iron pills, but they they didn't include the cofactors, and they realized, oh, all these people taking these iron pills, they're not absorbing anything. So there's a certain aspect of like, you can't do what Mother Nature did— does naturally in the laboratory. You just can't. We can't literally recreate an orange in the laboratory. We just have to let the seed and nature take over and do it for us. And that to me is— that's how we should be thinking, is what is it in nature? And that's why we want to focus on nutrient-dense food in the middle of that pyramid. And then here's the one that we're bringing up now that I was talking about when instead of driving that you're focusing on sitting, which is just then take the NutriDads foods, the foods that the flavor that you find in nature, and now just mindfully eat it. Mindfully eat it. And that's something, you know, I think that everyone really has to sit with. It's like, what does mindfulness really mean? It's, it's clearly it's something you talk about when you're talking about decluttering your house. Be mind— like, sit with the thing that you're not willing to get rid of that's cluttering your house and see What— why are you holding on to this? Like, what is the tie, right? So that's mindfulness. But we need to do that with our food too. Our bodies are sacred. Like, just like when you look at a sunset and you go, that's sacred, or you look at a tree that's 5,000 years old, you go, oh my God, that's beautiful. That's our body. Our bodies are that old too. So we need to reframe that if this body is sacred, just as equally sacred as what's in nature, then that means you will only feed your body sacred food. And then that's now your next step is what is sacred food? And that's, that's for you to decide.

So something that also is sacred to me is dinnertime. And this is something, you know, my parents had growing up where I'm the middle daughter. So there are 5 of us and the TV was never on growing up and during dinnertime. And today at our dinner table, we've got 2 kids, there are 4 of us. So there are no phones at the dinner table. The phones are clutter, right? The smartphones and so forth, the TV, all of that is clutter during dinnertime. That dinnertime is we get to sit around the table, we get to have conversation, we get to look each other in the eyes, we get to express interest and compassion and love. And I just really, really appreciate the way you were talking about how our bodies are sacred. Completely agree with you. And that dinnertime for me is also something that is sacred. And so, so special. I know once my kids are out of the house, it'll be, be something that I miss. It will evolve into the next stage of, of whatever it is. But, um, yeah, thank you for bringing up the sacred in this conversation.

Well, and I, there's a quote I just read in a book recently. I'll say that I think speaks to this is that true strength is found not in perfection, but in presence. And I think when that really hit me, because I really do think that so much of what we are chasing, and maybe we're, we're not giving it language because we feel it. We feel like it's the monkey on our back of like, ah, I just, when you, when you're on your phone all the time or when you're disconnected from your family or you're not eating dinner together or you're not eating well, there is this feeling of disconnect and you, you, you feel like something just doesn't feel right. I don't know what it is. And so sometimes we struggle to identify why, but I would offer that it's probably because you're not being present, that ultimately when we are present, we are, we are most in our humanity. And then when we are most present and in our humanity, then hopefully we're making more human choices. And so like the process junk, I mean, you know, I feel like we've really jumped the shark recently. I, well, it's not that recent, but still I say recent, like maybe 15 years, 20 years, is, you know, we've really seen this influx of these nutritional bars and like everyone is now going like, protein bars, that's, that's now my new go-to for food. And what I think we've really jumped the shark on, first of all, is thinking that we can, you know, we're always looking for that magic pill. So I think the nutrition bar is being sold to us as though it's that magic pill, but What's happened most recently is now you're seeing like companies that are known for junk food. So Oreo, Froot Loops, you know, all these like brands that they, they are solely like just all about, you know, your addictions and those addictive sugary foods. They are now coming out with nutritional bars. And when that happens, now there's no denying it. You're like, yeah, this, this has always been a glorified candy bar. And now there's proof that it's glorified candy bars. So I, I think we really want to like reevaluate, like if you're making those choices based off of timing, like, oh, I don't have enough time to eat. It's not about then that yes, you probably could make a different choice, but you have to then relook at things and go, well, is the choice I'm making with, you know, supporting my humanity or is it just supporting my schedule? And you just got to re— you got to go back to your planning stage.

And yes, yeah, yes, I want to hit that home because when we say we don't have time to eat well, that, that we make ourselves the victim, we lose all our agency. And so I love how you said, well, maybe go back to the planning stage and get curious, like, what, what really is important to me in life? Is knowing, like, nourishing myself well important to me in life? If so, then, then we create the time, don't we?

We create the time for the things that are important to Yeah, we say, we talk about like, oh, you know, we, everyone always uses the analogy of like, you got to put the oxygen mask on yourself first before you do it. But, but, but there's a reason why we keep repeating that because it's true. It's like you can't, you can't be in an optimal place. You can't support those people around you. You can't run a business. You can't be loving if you're not loving yourself. If everything you're trying to do outwardly is not also going back at yourself, you will not be able to sustain it. And then what's the point?

Yeah. Yeah. I have another question for you. So James, I did not learn to cook until I was in my mid-30s. And the catalyst was a rheumatologist had told me, um, you need to go on all the drugs, you have rheumatoid arthritis. And I said, well, what if I get curious about my diet? And she said, "Don't. It's too complicated. It's too hard to change." And so that lit something inside of me and I came home and I said, "I'm going to learn how to cook." Because honestly, I had been using the kitchen more as like a cold storage room and just buying all the things, storing it in the fridge, eating it, that type of thing. Now, I do want to say my parents really did their best getting my sisters and me to learn how to cook. So growing up, we needed to make one meal a week, but cooking always felt complicated to me until I was in my mid-30s. And that is really, truly when I decided to lean into it and I learned to cook. And I'm so grateful. That was one of the best decisions of my adult life, was to make friends with the kitchen and the possibilities in the kitchen. And my cooking has never been complicated. You know, there are people that have a real fine palate where they can just, mm, they can tell, you know, oh, this has this and this has that. And I mean, I, you know, I don't have that. I'm a very simple eater. What do you think, you know, for me, I had the thought that cooking was complicated. What do you think are the most common thoughts that get in the way of humanity making friends with the kitchen or having agency? I now have agency. I can make anything I want to. I am empowered. But so many, so many of us are so disconnected, as you were mentioning, from the food chain from the kitchen. Why is that? What do you think is happening?

Yeah, I think the first one that you're touching on is that we think that just because we have to eat, that we also have to love to cook. So we're not only taught that to a degree, but we're also— we put that pressure on ourselves that I have to love to do this. But, and then that really what that does is that puts a lot of shame on people that just aren't aligned. Like, not everyone wants to be a cook, but yet Because I have to eat and because I'm hearing, you know, Chef James say master my kitchen, that means I just got to do it, but I don't love it. So, so the reality is, is yeah, it's, it, it, it is a, it is a situation here because I'm saying like, yeah, you don't have to love to cook, but you do have to cook because that's the only way you're going to get healthy. So what does that mean we can do? Well, let's not focus so much on loving cooking. Let's focus on loving the environment that we're cooking in. So creating an environment that we feel loved or that we love. So that might mean making sure it's really light, lots of sunlight comes into it. It might mean brighter colors in the kitchen, maybe some yellows, something like that, that kind of lift your spirit more, whatever your favorite color is. That might mean making sure that there's fresh flowers there all the time, because that's something that you do love. That might mean listening to your favorite podcast, listening to music that kind of lightens your soul. That's up to you, but that's what you do have agency over is you don't have to love to cook, but you can create an environment where you feel loved and loving. It really can make the difference. And then here's a huge tip that I find moves the needle the most, and most people underuse it, which is just meal plan, just meal plan. Meal planning limits what you buy at a grocery store because you're only buying that what you're going to use in the, in the meal. You can meal plan and look at your schedule. So then that way you're building the meal plan based off of your schedule versus just building a meal plan because you have to eat. So like if you have work meetings all the way up to 5 and they start at 9 and you're not going to have time to make your own food, that might be a slow cooker day because you could throw everything in there in the morning and then it's ready for you when you get off of work. So there's different tricks you can do. You can also batch cook, of course, you know, like on a Sunday and get yourself ready with some basics. You want to remove the shaming. You want to remove that kind of feeling like you have to. Just shift not only your perspective, your mindset, but shift the environment so that it's conducive towards what you want to.

Ooh, I like what you just said. Like, shift from what you have to do, because when we think we have to do something, of course, we just, we push against that. We don't want to do that. And you said shift it to what you want to do or what you get to do. This is a privilege, right? We get the privilege of taking care of ourselves in this way, removing the clutter that doesn't serve us, the clutter that, you know, the foods that have— what did you say? Natural flavors, right? I think of that as clutter, right? Because some of us are sensitive to those natural flavors that aren't so natural. So this gets to be a get-to-do, not a— like, not a have-to-do. I really like that you said that.

Well, one thing about just going back to these flavorings, whether they're artificial or natural, a lot of people don't realize— and this can be in seasonings, this can be in anything that has any additive like that. Is there— it's called carriers. So, so like when something has a flavor, like I'm even thinking like about lime powder. So if you see lime powder in a seasoning, you might think, well, it's just limes that are dried and powdered. No, it's not. So what they're doing is they're taking the lime flavor and they're adding it to a carrier. And usually the carrier is based off of corn, like it's a corn dextrose or it's a rice dextrose. So a lot of times you're getting more of those kind of sweet starches or whatever. You're getting more of those in your diet than you realize. And if you are, like, I'm sensitive to corn. And so it's like, you know, that means if I'm having electrolytes, for example, and those electrolytes are flavored, since they all are, I may be getting corn in my diet, you know. So it is— there's more to, you know, picking foods that are ingredients versus have ingredients than just because Oh, well, it's cleaner. It's like, no, no, it really is cleaner because the label system in the US, they don't require that when we say natural flavors, they're not required to list the 4 or 5 other ingredients in that natural flavor. They just have to say natural flavors. So it's a very non— it's, it's, it's, it's not— what's the word? It's, it's very untransparent. Transparent. It's rarely as transparent as we think it is. Even, even organic food, even, even foods that you think are the healthiest, like you really have to be an investigative reporter these days and ask the questions, be curious. And the more you can just focus on single ingredient foods, then you don't have to worry as much.

Oh, I like that so much. The simplicity, right? Just go simple, go simple. And, and that will be a much higher likelihood of not having clutter in what you're eating. I want to talk about Flox. Because I am your number one fan. I know you have a lot of number one fans, and we are out right now. So that's just a note to self to put another order in. We have— my kids love, love your seasonings. So my husband will make actually some kind of egg dish for the family every single morning. He's our morning person, makes a delicious meal, and we love your seasonings. Love your seasonings. So much better than anything else we've ever used before. And so, can we please— yeah, let's talk about Pflück.

Yeah. So I mentioned earlier, I'm really into foods that are ancestral or foods that are really as Mother Nature intended. Organ meats are hands down the most nutrient-dense food on the planet. And I basically set out to solve 3 hurdles. One is that people think they're gross. Two is that they don't know how to cook them. And three they don't know where to source them. So I set out to solve that. And really the why I created it, uh, is because I'm a father and, and because I want to ensure that my kids are thriving. And the way to get our kids to thrive is to get those, those really nutrient-dense foods that easily absorb into their diet. But also I needed it too because, uh, I, I want to be alive a long time to experience them and be present with them, right? So, so it's twofold. Like, I'm a chef, so I focus on flavor, and I'm a father and I focused health. And so what I did was I took the freeze-dried powdered organ meats— uh, we're using 5 currently: liver, heart, kidney, spleen, and pancreas from 100% grass-fed cows— and then I combined them with salt and organic spices and herbs, and I made them taste good. And now getting these incredibly ancestral, nutrient-dense, bioavailable foods is as easy as just salting your food. We put it on everything because the key is you're getting— yes, you're getting microdosing of that, but you're getting it frequently as long as you use it. And we all season our food. We, we salt or do something to everything we eat. And so all I'm saying is just use this, and now you're getting that organ meat nutrition. It's, it's really like— we like to say it is food-based. It's a food-based supplement in a seasoning form.

And I just want to say, like, it just makes breakfast so light. It's so fun. And of course, you can use them on any meals at any time of day, but that's really where we put put the seasonings in. I just— James, I have like nightmares from childhood, you know, when my parents would make liver and it was just so disgusting. And then as an adult, I mean, in my 30s when I learned to cook, I was— I learned at that time how important the organ meats were. And so that was, you know, I was really focusing on health and wellness and of myself and my family. And so I got liver. I didn't get it at the grocery store. Like we know the farm where we would buy, you know, half a a quarter of a cow or half of a pig, and we knew the living conditions and everything. And so we'd bring those things back home. Well, I tried making liver and it was still gross. I mean, I tried. And so I love, I love your spices because they're delicious. They're so delicious, no grossness, and they make things taste better. So yeah, I just, yeah. So what would you say to the person that's like, well, I thought liver was bad for you. I thought the organ meats were bad for you. What would you say to them?

Well, you're just misinformed. I mean, really, when we say that, we're using the logic of, well, it's a— in the form of liver or kidney specifically, oh, it's a detoxification organ, and we're thinking that it's absorbing those toxins. But really, what the— there's a concept of like supports like. So the organ that you're eating is going to support that organ in you. And there's lots of proof of this. It's been studied for a long time since the '40s. But what the liver specifically is doing is it's convert— it's taking in the toxins from that you're getting inside your body and it's converting them to water-soluble form so that those toxins can then leave your body. And how do they leave your body? Through the poop, pee, and sweat. But if your body is not detoxifying properly, which is really what we should all be focusing on and make sure that we're resilient and detoxifying toxifying. If, if you're not pooping daily and peeing, you know, drinking enough water where your, your pee is not so dark but clear, and you're probably storing those toxins, but not in the organ, you're storing them in the fat. And really what people are imagining when they imagine it getting stored in the, uh, in the organs, they're thinking of it as a sponge. But if you think about it, just use our logic. Like if the human body is designed to survive and we've seen people who are alcoholics live till they're 60, 70, right? So that means they've been poisoning their body for 50, 60 years, and yet they still last that long, right? Well, if your— if your liver stored all those toxins, we would all be dead. Like, we live in a toxic soup. Like, none of us would live past probably 5 years old because our livers would give out. But the body, once again, it's a miracle. It is a— it's sacred, right? The body is designed to survive. And so there's no world where that liver is gonna let itself just like— it has a job to do. It's not gonna store it in, in the liver. That's the only time it does that is if you're truly a sick person. You have to have lived a long time. You have to have been abusing your body for a long time. And same with the animals. And people love to like say, oh, what, but conventional animals, they're, they're not raised properly, so they're getting like these, these toxins in their organs. It's like, not really. They don't live long enough to get it. I mean, most animals are dead before they're even a year old. I mean, they really don't live that long. You know, even chickens, like the way they raise chickens, it's such a poor industry, the poultry industry. They basically, they're like, they're days old. They're not even that. They're pumping them with so many things to make their body grow faster than their hearts that technically if they live long enough, their, their hearts, their hearts can't handle the weight. And so they kill them before their system dies, you know what I'm saying? Like, so even them, they're killed at such a young, young age that it's not— they're not allowed to get to that state, really.

You know, I think about some of those industries, like concentrated animal feeding operation industries, that I know that that could be a whole nother conversation, uh, uh, because I think I— the, the way those industries do business, I just think are Clutter in my mind, you know, so we intentional in our home where, what, what animal meats we bring into our home.

But we can learn, we can learn from it though. And here, and because I love that you said it's like clutter. So, so one thing is like just using the poultry industry. So what they do is they create conditions that are inhumane for these birds and then they go, oh, well, the birds are all pecking at themselves. Like instead of going, well, maybe we should change the environment, they go, well, let's just, let's just burn off their beaks. So then they can't peck. Like they just keep, they change something and then they don't go backwards. They keep going forward. And I think that that's a really good learning piece for all of us is like, that's the same thing. Like before you keep buying more and more and more, take a look back and say, well, but is this the environment? And if I buy this next thing, am I creating, am I co-creating the environment that I originally wanted. Like, don't keep moving forward, but actually always reflect back and take it in and be present with where you are, whether it's your food system or your, or your home system.

That, that is something I hope people like rewind and listen to that again, because that was so powerful. James, what have I not asked you that I should have asked you in this conversation?

That's a tough— you know, that's funny. That's probably the toughest question I've ever had, is like, because now I have to think like your audience or think like you and like, oh, well, what was it I asked? You know, I'll just simply say, like, just going back to Pluck, because, because for me, that it's— I'm, I'm on a mission, and my mission is to help you feel better in your body. And I believe that getting these nutrient-dense foods that are easily absorbable basically Mother Nature's multivitamin into your diet will help you. And I believe it will help you feel better in your body. And I believe once we feel better in our bodies, then that means we will treat others better because we treat people how we feel. And so I will just offer that if, if, if you're struggling with any of these things, like little movements— none of these things have to be big movements. Even starting to cook in your own kitchen can be a small movement. You really can start where you're at. I would just offer that it's not about one day. It's about day one. Like, make, make— you've heard it here, like, now start right after you stop listening to this episode. Go do one thing that will either declutter your health or declutter your household or your environment. Maybe do something to be present with another person. But I promise you, like, the minute you take that breath and you just ground down, you'll start to see things a lot clearer.

At School of Living Letter, we talk about the lighter path, and that can mean anything you want it to mean. And I feel like I just heard your answer in that response, but I just want to ask, yeah, James, for you, what is the lighter path for you?

You know, the thing that I've been working on, I had a really strong hit at the end of '25 that that a lot of us live in either anger or fear. That's kind of where our emotional intelligence kind of starts and ends. And we kind of stay in that certain very physical plane or emotional plane. And what I left 25 really having awareness around is that whenever judgment comes up in me or whenever I'm feeling that the outside, you know, society is narrating my my mindset is affecting my mindset or my perspective and pulling me away from what I believe is true, that instead of like buying into it and succumbing my own perspective or my own mindset, that I'm going to just take a, take a breath and notice where in my body the energy, that fear or that anger is. Because that's usually what it is, and just then release it. So like that, basically in 26, it's about release. It's not about holding on to anyone else's ideas of what is right for me, but really going inward and asking the questions inside to basically find out what is right for me. Because it's all perspective. It's all, it's all just story we're creating. It really is. And when we let someone else dictate dictate, you know, change our view of ourselves or dictate whether we're good or bad people, or just we let them label us, we're really doing a disservice for our own humanity. And so many people are vampires. There's so many of them are trying to, you know, bring us down a slot, you know, or kind of overcompensate for their own issues, you know, by taking out someone else. And it's just wrong. And You know, and I think, I think, you know, full circle, as we started talking about the noise, you mentioned like the noise of the phone, the noise of the screen, and it's like there is, there's constant noise. And so my, my kind of offer to everyone out there is, so what are you going to do today or tomorrow to quiet that noise down? But I do believe it's our job to do something because if you keep letting that noise dictate your next step, you're always going to feel cluttered in some way.

Thank you, James. Thank you so much. That's inspiring. We are not powerless. We get to choose. We get to get curious. Thank you so much. So you've got a really popular podcast. Tell us about your podcast and how we can find you.

Yeah, it's called Everyday Ancestral. And you can go to our website at epluck.com. We've got a podcast page, but it's also available on, you know, Apple, Shopify, or Spotify. Or Spotify and YouTube as well. Yeah, we're, we're constantly having conversations like this, like how, how do we, you know, tap into our humanity despite being in a very modern, disconnected world? And it is, uh, it's been a lovely experience learning and talking to our guests and seeing what matters to them. And my goal with everything I do is always trying to empower people so that they can start making their own decisions on what works or what doesn't. And I believe a lot of that comes from contrast. So you have to hear people's perspectives, what they experienced to know what works for you. So I'm hoping we did that here, but if for some reason, and any of this dialogue has inspired someone to want more, definitely check us out and you can always reach out to us at epluck.com as well.

Thank you so much. Again, number one fan right here. Love, love what you've done and love your mission. And your vision. James, thanks so much.

Thank you.

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