Ed Sheeran – Finding Peace at the Top of the Music Industry | Chasing the Present

Well, thanks so much for allowing us to come to your studio and have a chat together. Really appreciate it. Super nice to meet you and get a chance to hang out. I'm just wondering, like, you know, trying to think of different ways to ask you questions, because so many people have asked you so many questions, and you're probably a little bit, you know, bored of it, in a sense.

Yeah. Well, I think that what's interesting about this is what usually I talk about my career and what I do, whereas this is more about how we are, I guess. Yeah.

In a sense. That being said, though, like, it's such a. You know, you're such an inspiration to so many people.

Thank you.

So it's important to kind of understand that a little bit before we dive into the other stuff. As a child, did you, like. Did you dream that, like, someday I want to be, like, a huge star, you know? Was that, like, something you wanted to do from a kid?

No, when I was a kid, I didn't. I wasn't really that into music as a kid. I mean, I played instruments, but it was more art was my thing. And then I. I think when I picked up, like, I wasn't a very popular kid at all, and I went to high school and picked up a guitar, and then suddenly I started, like, making friends, getting girlfriends, playing in bands, and kind of, like, having fun like that. And I kind of saw it as a. Like, oh, God, this is quite. And it made me feel good, and I just decided I wanted to do it as a job. I didn't expect I'd be where I am now, but I was kind of like, I think I want to play music as my job. And, like, I don't care if that's being. You know, I did, like, like, wedding band stuff for a while and that. And that, you know, paid the rent and stuff. And, like, I. Yeah, I essentially just wanted to play music as a job, and then it turned into this. It kind of, like, snowballed, and I'm like, definitely some point in that trajectory. I started, like, aiming for things and working harder to get those things. But I think essentially it was just. Yeah. Being 11 and seeing Eric Clapton on TV and being like that, that was cool. But, yeah, it wasn't like, age 4. I was like, I want to be famous. Yeah. But I don't think anyone that wants to be famous ends up being famous. And when. And sometimes when they do, they're like, oh, this isn't. This isn't as fun as I thought it would be. Yeah. Yeah.

So it was kind of like a natural progression. You were just like, I love making music. I'm just gonna keep making music. And then at a certain point, once you realize, like, oh, kind of good at this, maybe I can do something.

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's weird. Like, most. Most things in the entertainment industry, I think kind of happen. I think people always say it's luck, and I think luck is when preparation. But luck is when preparation meets opportunity. So it's basically if you're. If you. If you. If you work hard enough to, like, better yourself and make you good and the opportunity comes, you're good enough to be elevated to the next level. So I think, yeah, for me, it was just. I just. I just loved what I did, and I worked really hard at it because I loved what I did. And then suddenly an opportunity would come up and I could be good enough to take it by the horns and let it take me wherever.

And when you started to make those, like, you know, like you said, there was a certain point where you started to make goals and think, like, oh, maybe I do want to be in a bigger stadium, or whatever it is, what did it feel like when you actually achieved that?

It sounds weird saying it, but you don't really feel anything. And that's what I think makes it so weird. You can't even get to Wembley, and. Because it's what you aim for, and then you get there and you finish it and you're like, well, what do I do now? Like, it's. It's a. It's a weird. You'd think it would be an, aha. This is it. I've made it. Oh, my God. But it's such a weird. It's such a weird feeling. It's like, there's. I think, especially in this industry, no one's ever really satisfied. Like, even I. Like, you don't learn anything from your achievements. You learn everything from your fitness failures. And I think that there's. Yeah, it's a weird one. It's a weird one. Like, I learned more playing in a room to one person in Exeter when no one came to my gig in 2009 than I did playing Wembley Stadium for four nights. It's a weird. It's a weird one.

Yeah, there's an interesting. We were talking about Jim Carrey earlier, and it reminded me. It was like, Jim Carrey said something like, he wishes everybody could be, like, super famous and have everything, so they realize, like, there's something more to life. That's not what life is all about.

Yeah. And I mean, for me, I kind of. I had reached that point after tour because I like. I mean, it's quite heavily publicized, but the tour that I did was, like, it had broken loads of milestones and achieved all these things. And I remember the last day of tour, we played in my hometown, like, 40,000 people, and all my friends and family came down. And then it ended. And then the day afterwards, it was literally that moment. I was like, well, I know that's never gonna happen again. And, like, I know. Yeah, it's quite. It's just a weird thing. So that's why when I watched that Jim Carrey thing, I took up painting for a month, because I was like, I should probably try and find something else to give me happiness than music. Because music is. Yeah, it's a weird thing when you feel like you've achieved everything you can achieve. So, yeah, I paint. I Basically, I bought 30 canvases, and I painted a canvas a day for 30 days, and it was really fun.

How'd that feel? Like, just any specific style of painting that you do, or you just get in front of a canvas and just whatever happens, you go with it or.

No, I guess it's kind of Jackson Pollocky. I just. Yeah, I bought house paint, and then I would just layer it up by flicking it, and I'll show you some of it. It's cool. But, yeah, I just. You know what? I finished tour, and then I was like, I should probably have some time off from music and blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, I'm just not going to touch an instrument for a month. And then I kind of got two days into it, and I was like, fuck. Like, music. Music is my hobby. And now I'm not doing my hobby, which means I'm not doing anything. I re. I should find something else that I can do in life that brings me happiness. That isn't something that is my work, you know? So, yeah, that's why I did painting, because there's only so many movies you can watch and packets of Monster Munch you can eat, you know, what is it?

Monster what?

Monster Munch. I'll give you a packet. It's good. Okay, cool.

What are some of the biggest things that you feel like you had to overcome? Like, did you get to points when you were, like, kind of coming up in the music world where you were getting turned down or where, like, you know, you were trying and got this feeling that you weren't kind of good enough and, you know, did you have some Big like hurdles or was everything kind of smooth for you?

My hurdles weren't anything like that because as I said, I think you learn a lot from failure and rejection and I think it only made me stronger as a person and as an artist. So being turned down by record labels just made me go, well, fuck it, I'll do it myself then. And made me work harder in the studio. And like, I think all of that was actually quite a good thing. I think that the hurdles that came were the ones that everyone sort of brushes over because when you're, you have success and you find money, everyone goes, must be great for you. And it's. And that is what is not great because you then just get people being fucking weird with you because they just assume that everything's all right. And I've had like, you know, family members turn weird and friends fall out with me and people like stealing and I just. And yet money is such a weird fucking thing because it doesn't as the Jim Carrey thing. I think it's not the key to happiness and it causes so many problems if you have it. And it's such a weird thing to talk about because whenever I have ever brought it up with a friend, they go, ah, don't be silly, it's fine, fine, you're fine. And it's. Yeah, it's, it's a weird thing. Like fame, Fame is an enhancer but for everyone else's insecurities and it just basically it directs it all towards you because they, like, I don't know, people like look at you differently. Like people that you'd been friends with for years, like I, the amount of people I don't speak to anymore just because it just drops turned weird. And also there'd be people caught in the crossfire of that as well that maybe weren't weird that I ended up just stopping speaking to because I got weird because everyone else was weird. And yeah, it's a, it's an odd, it's an odd thing. But then again, I'll be talking on something like this, someone will watch it and I guarantee someone will be like, ah, it's alright for him. And it's a, it's a, it's a weird, weird one.

Yeah, yeah, but it's so awesome, you know, that you're sharing this kind of stuff and to talk to you about it, you know, because I feel like in my own life and so many people that I know as well, like, you know, we tend to put happiness in the future, you know, we tend to put Happiness, like, if I achieve that goal, then I'll be happy.

Yeah.

If I get that job, then I'll be happy. If I have that relationship, then I'll be happy. You know, it's like putting it out of the present in a way, like putting it in the future.

Yeah.

And then when, you know, somebody like you has achieved, you know, the top of everything basically, that you can achieve.

In music, well, it made me realize that, actually you are right, that happiness should be in the here and now. Like all of my. I didn't start in the industry to sell out Wembley Stadium and have an album go platinum or have a number one single. When you're in the industry and these things start happening, you start being like, oh, maybe this is what I should do. And then you start setting your goals and being like, I should do this and do that. And I think now getting. Cause. Getting to the point of the tour and then it just all ending and then suddenly being kind of left with the reality of like, being like, fuck, maybe that's not gonna happen again. I think you would start focusing on the, you know, oh, maybe today I'm gonna do this. And that made me happy, and then. Or maybe tomorrow I'm gonna do this, rather than, like, if I make this happen, this will make me happy. If that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes total sense.

Yeah.

And it's such an important thing, you know, for people to realize, I think, that we can just be happy, you know, without needing to achieve, you know, super high goals that society puts on us or our families or.

And I think. I think, you know, I think like, health. Health is also something we take for granted. Like, it's one of those things, like when I. Whenever I get ill, I suddenly don't remember what it felt like to be healthy. You know, one of those things where you suddenly you get like a cold and you're like, fuck, I can't remember what it's like to not have a cold. And you start to really appreciate just being around, like, living here and seeing nature and seeing, like, we are fucking lucky to be just around and experiencing things. I think.

Yeah, it's such a beautiful thing. I saw you did, like, I think it was last year, you did some stuff with Prince Harry in terms of, like, mental health issues and stuff like that. Have you, like, had times in your life where you've went through anxiety or depression or. You know, I read something online that said that you struggled with social anxiety a little bit, for example.

Yeah, I mean, I've had bouts of everything. I Mean, I think the lowest I've ever been was, like, 2015, but that was kind of like. That was. But that was, like, lots of things, I think. I think if it's. It's all down to. For me, it was down to, like, bad diet, drinking, and then not seeing sunlight at all. So I was. I was touring. Oh. And I wasn't exercising. Exercise, I think, is a really fucking important thing to keep people happy. But I was basically. I was touring and I would stay up and drink all night and then sleep on the buses, would park underneath arenas, and I'd sleep on the bus all day and then wake up and then come out, do the show, drink, get back on the bus. And I didn't see sunlight for, like, maybe, like, four months. And it's all fun and games at the start and it's all rock and roll and it's fun. And then, like, it starts getting, like, just sad. Just sad. So I think that's. That was probably, like, the lowest that I've been and I kind of ballooned in weight and just wasn't. I just wasn't healthy.

How did it feel, like, when you say it's the lowest you've been? Like, what did you. Like, what did you actually feel? You know, like, did you feel like, what did you wake up and feel a little bit sad or were you feeling, like, anxious and. Or was your mind kind of going all over the place and it was hard to focus or I guess you.

Got kind of felt. Was it. Oh, what was the point? Not in, like, a dark. Well, actually, I guess in the dark. But yeah, you kind of. You're kind of like, why. Why am I around? Like, what, What. What. What is. What is the point? But, yeah, as I said, it's like I kind of. I met. I've known Cherry for a while, but we, like, rekindled our friendship and then started dating. And then she exercises a lot, so I went. Started going on runs with her. She eats quite healthily, so I started eating quite healthily with her. She doesn't drink that much, so I wasn't drinking. I think that will change things, but from the anxiety point of view, I remember the first time I had a panic attack. And I remember one of my friends has really bad anxiety and he used to have panic attacks. And I was like, fuck, man, that must be really, really fucking hard. And I was on a plane from Alicante, or maybe it was Ibiza. I was on holiday with all my mates, and I had to fly back to shoot a TV show. And I got on it and this was, like, peak thinking out loud of being really big and, like. Yeah, it's like the peak fame of the second album. And I got on the plane on my own with, like, 300 boys who were, like, on a lads trip. And I just remember just having this fucking weird episode, this kind of weird panic attack, and then getting off the plane and being like, oh, God, that. That was weird. And then ever since then, it's been happening more and more in those sort of public situations, which is weird because my job is to play to big crowds. But it's different when you're. I very much get it when I'm close to lots of people. Like, I don't really get it when it's. Yeah, I would get it on, like, the tube or, I guess, planes, supermarkets, like, anywhere where there's lots of people, I think. Yeah. And it's a weird paranoia in me of assuming that everyone's gonna be horrible when usually people are nice.

Does it start with, like. Cause for myself, for example, when I was younger, like, I overdosed on cocaine. And another time, you know, I was stung by a wasp and I basically died in the hospital. I had to be brought back to life from adrenaline, and I had panic attacks for, like, 15 years, like, on a weekly or monthly basis.

Do you think cocaine triggers that, though? Because I feel. I feel like drugs nowadays really can send people in. Like, especially here. There's been lots of suicides of people that have big booze and coke binges and then get this massive crash and then they end up committing suicide. Do you think that that triggers some of the social anxiety?

Well, for me, for sure, you know, but it was also the fact that I was, like, dead. So, like, all of it together, I haven't done coke since then. This is like, you know, 15 years ago or something when this happened. But definitely it can trigger it for sure. For me. Like, I even notice sometimes coffee can trigger it because it's a stimulant, you know, and if you're not, like, a totally kind of calm and grounded person and you take stimulants all the time, it kind of can spin you out, you know, and cocaine is an extreme of that. But when you say you, like, have social anxiety and things like that, do you feel like it coming up or do the thoughts just kind of go, like, crazy or what's. Like, how do you. What happens for you? Because so many people have different explanations of that kind of thing, you know.

I don't really know. I don't really know how to describe it. It's just one of those things that just like, get me the fuck out of here right now.

And that's what you do to. You just kind of leave the situation.

No, because cherry's. Cherry's good with it. Like, sometimes cherry will be like, cool, yeah, we'll leave. But like, some. But sometimes I am just being paranoid. So, like, we were. We went away for our wedding anniversary and we sat in this restaurant in Venice. And I remember as soon as I got in, I was like, get me the fuck out of it. And she was just like, no one's fucking looking at you. No one wants anything. Everyone, it's just old people are chilling, they're having their coffees, and then after five minutes, everything does calm. And I was like, okay, yeah, actually, that was probably good. So sometimes it's just me being me, but. Yeah, but sometimes it's not.

So you feel like. You mentioned some key things. I think you feel like changing your diet, drinking less, eating healthy changes.

Yeah. And I think exercise, everything in moderation, I think is the key, because I'm very much. I mean, I'm covered in tattoos and I kind of don't do things by half. So if I'm going to drink, I kind of see no point in having a glass of wine. I'd rather have, like two bottles of wine. And I think, like, having a glass of wine is having something in moderation and probably isn't going to affect your day the next day, but two bottles of wine probably might make you quite sad the next day. Or like having a burger. And I used to. They used to call me two dinner teddies, Two dinner Teddy, because I used to order two meals and. And eat that. And then you start putting on loads of weight, and then you start hating the way you look, and then you start getting sad about that. And I think basically everything in moderation. Exercise can really help, just because there's. I mean, there's loads of health benefits anyway, but also loads of just cosmetic benefits. As in, you just. You feel better, but also you start looking better. And when you look better, you're looking in the mirror and being like, oh, maybe I don't hate myself today. You know, like, as a. I think so. I think. I think that. And I think, yeah, eating healthy food makes you feel great. And when you feel great, you. Yeah, it's. It's all. It's. It's all part and parcel of the same thing. But I also think. I mean, we were talking about this earlier. I think nature is a very important part of feeling. Okay. All of this time I was living in London and London's quite gray and it's quite full on and like, there's. There's always something happening. There's always something on and that you always, like, switched on. And I feel like, you know, like, lots of people live in London, but I think maybe on, like, weekends, try and find a park somewhere and go for a walk or like, there's like. I think. I think nature's a good thing to remind us, like, life is. Life is good. And like, there are. There are beautiful things in the world. I think I sound so hippie saying this, but I think it's like, it really does. It really does help.

Yeah, I think the connection to nature is a super important thing. You know, we made this documentary for the last four years, and one of the common threads from, like, all the kind of older, wise, indigenous people from different cultures in the world that we talked to that we found was this connection to nature. You know, these. Whether it was someone in Peru living in the jungle or. Or, you know, nuns that we. That we study meditation with in the Himalayas of Nepal. You know, something about this peaceful state. And nature is like.

I mean, we are. We are animals at the end of the day. I mean, like, we're not meant to live in concrete. We are meant to live in nature. Like, we. We created concrete and we created offices. Like, you know, you are meant to. We're foragers, aren't we? We go and hunt and live in tribes and fields and deserts and whatever. And we are meant to be outside most of the time as animals. So I think that that's definitely a factor in why people have mental health issues, is that this isn't what we're meant to do. This isn't what human beings as a organism are meant to be programmed to do. We're meant to be. And it's a very recent thing as well. It's only really the last sort of like two, 300 years that this has started happening, you know, and even now.

More so if we think about, like, being in nature as kind of like a connection in a sense, like we're connecting with some kind of aspect of ourselves by being in nature, you know, because it's kind of where we come from. Yeah, but if we look at now also, like social media, for example, it feels like it disconnects us even further, you know, I mean, how do you feel, you know, with having such a big following and such a big impact in the social media world? How do you feel social media affects you personally?

Social media is a weird one because it is my job to be on it and to keep up with the times and appeal to younger generations. But it's such a weird thing. Like I was on my phone probably 19 hours of the day in 2015 and before that just constantly just flicking, posting, flicking, posting, flicking, posting. And it wasn't till the tour ended in 2015 where I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna try and live without my phone for a bit. There wasn't a like, oh, I need to get away from social media cause it makes me sad kinda thing. But I was just like, oh, I just wanna get away from my phone for a bit. I had like 1500 contacts on my phone and people were texting the whole time and it just felt a lot of like responsibility to either reply or meet up with them. And I was just like, you know what, let me just get rid of it for a bit and I'm gonna enjoy my time off. I'm gonna go traveling for a bit. And for like the first month I was like, fuck. Just felt like a massive weight had been lifted. I was like, it seems stupid saying it, but I was at dinner with Cherry and actually talking to her, not being like, oh yeah, yeah, what? And I was like, oh, that's actually quite cool. Maybe I'll just carry on not not having a phone. And then when I got back to releasing Divide and had to be back on social media, I got an iPad and then went, just went straight back to flicking and in cars waiting for interviews and flicking and I'm on planes and flicking and. And it's just this constant connection to stuff that isn't here and now. And so when the tour ended, I just was like, fuck it, I don't need it anymore. I think I'm probably of an age where I'm probably now beyond the like, I don't think I'm gonna get the youth back kind of thing because I'm like, I'm getting into my 30s and it's not like 16 year old people are gonna relate to me next time I release an album kind of thing, you know. So I was like, it's not like I need to be on it anymore. I can just have someone post it and not having it. You realize I was always on it being like, what if I missed something? What if I. What if, what if this is going on? What if my friends are doing this and I haven't been on it for three months now and I Haven't missed a fucking thing, anything. Like, if something important happens, a friend will call or email and be like, hey, this is happening. Or like, I've done this. And you're like, I've just spoken to Sophie now and she's like, I'm engaged. I'm like, oh, that's cool. Rather than seeing something on social media and just being like, okay, and flicking through it, there's no, like, connection to it. So being off it has been. Has been really good. And I'm not saying people have to be off it because I think there's some elements of it that Cherry follows a lot of, like, National Geographic stuff and she loves seeing animal stuff. I think there are elements of social media that are really great, but I think the bad things about social media are the. This. The unrealistic expectations that people have on life because of it. Because that people only post the positive things they're doing. And so therefore you're gonna be like, oh, fuck, why are they doing that? And then it gives you resentment towards that person and. And then it makes you feel shit about yourself because you're not doing what they're doing. And when really they're only posting that because they feel sad and they want to post something to make people that they think that they're happier. It's like the selfie thing. When people post selfies, I look at it and be like, man, they must have had a shit day today because they want to put up a picture of them looking good for someone to be like, oh, you look good for them to feel happier. And I always feel sad when I see that, because it's them. I used to do not so much selfies, but I used to do the same thing. I spoke to, actually a friend of mine the other day who's in the music industry. He's a bit younger than me, and he was like, I had to get rid of social media for a bit because it ruined my day that a photo of mine got 3 million likes and not 4 million likes. And I was like, that's fucking crazy. That, like. And he said it floored him for the day. He was just like, what have I done? Like, what? You know, it's kind of. It's a crazy world, social media. And what's mad is I sound so old saying this now. Back in my day. But back in back when I was a teenager, we didn't have it. We had MSN instant messenger that you were kind of allowed to go on for like an hour a day. And then. And then you'd fill your time doing things. We'd go to the skate park or we'd go and try a cigarette for the first time and we'd like set off fireworks. And you know, you do just stupid kid shit. But now, but nowadays, like, I know friends who have eight year old kids that have an iPhone. You'll feel happier than you did before you did. I mean, you might get to the end of it, be like, oh, that's that shit. But when you're doing it, it's so enjoyable and you don't need to be, you don't need to go to art school for that. So, yeah, I think creativity is very good for making people happy because at the end of it you've got something that didn't exist 10 minutes ago. I think that's a good, a good thing.

So like, when you're gonna work, when you're gonna write music or create music, do you, do you kind of like feel it coming in a sense and you're like, I'm gonna go right now. Or do you sit down sometimes with an intention of like, okay, I'm gonna write a song today.

It's weird. I mean, the songs that connect with people the most, songs like Bloodstream or Perfect or don't or Thinking out Loud, like all my biggest songs were the ones where you basically imagine your emotions like a volcano and you're like, so many things have happened to you and you're just like, oh, just fine, just have to fucking write a song. I just have to write a song. Whereas some of the other songs, I'll go into a studio and be like, right, I kind of want to write a song about this sort of subject today. And then I'll start that and I'll do the chords and I'll produce it up so there's definitely a mix. Like yesterday I was in the studio and I wrote a song that was just like a happy feel good tune, you know, there was no need to write it, but it made me feel good doing it. But the songs that have been the biggest are the ones that needed to be written, I think, for me to feel better.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. That's really cool. And it was super cool to also hear just that. Like, you know, you didn't start out in music to try to become something, you know, because you feel like a lot of people start out in things and as soon as they start, they want to be at the top, you know, which is like a recipe for failure because very few people get to do that. You know, so the fact that you just made music because you just wanted to make music.

Yeah, Well, I don't think. I don't think there's anyone who's ever had success in anything that starts. You have to start at the bottom of everything, and to start at the bottom of something, you have to have a love for it. Otherwise you're just at the bottom and being like, this sucks. But when I started at the bottom, I enjoyed every part of it. I loved the shows. I mean, sometimes it made me sad that there was nowhere to sleep or I wasn't making any money or blah, blah, blah, but I still fucking loved every part of it. And therefore you work harder, and therefore you get bigger. If you go. If you go in to the industry and you're like. Or any industry, and you're just like, I want to be. I want to be the top now. I've got to make it happen. One, it's not going to happen in. Two, you're probably in it for the wrong reasons. And also you're probably not going to enjoy it that much. I think the journey is the fun part, as I said. I mean, like, the top, you get to Wembley and you're like, what's next? And it's. Once you've. It was so much fun getting to that point that, yeah, I think it's good to, you know, start off and work hard, and I don't think. I don't think people end up having the success that they want if they don't do that. Yeah.

This year is kind of like a break for you, so to speak. Right. You're taking some time off. How did you feel? Like I just needed to take a break. Or does taking a break from music sometimes help you get inspiration again?

I think so. I mean, for me, I think there's lots of different elements of why I did it.

I kind of.

I released a record last summer that it wasn't really an album, it was like a record. And, you know, it's like, I just. You can kind of sense when the public are like, we've had enough for now. We've had enough for now. And it happened on Multiply as well. My second album that I put out a repackage of that after it got big and put out a new single, and you can kind of sense the public like, we've kind of had enough. And I think that's one of the important things in the industry, is to know when to give not only yourself a break, but give the public a break, because it's very. If you're releasing shit all the time, you're constantly on radio and you're constantly on TV and you're constantly. Magazines being interviewed and constantly. Like, there's a certain point where it's over saturation and people are like, I'm good. And then you can't really get back from that. So it's good to. When you sense that, to kind of pull your. Pull yourself back. But also, you know, I just. Just got married to Cherry. We now live here in Suffolk. And I kind of like, what's. Like, what was I working for? Like, why. Why would I carry on working as hard and not enjoying any of it? Like, you know, even people that work normal jobs or wherever will still go on holiday and still go and do these things and still have their weekends and relax. And I hadn't really done any of that, so I was like, I would like to just live at home. And I still. What, what I do is I'm not actually on a break. I'm still. I still work nine to five every day. I go to the studio, I get. I get up, go for a run or do some training or some swimming or some boxing and. And then I go to the studio for like 9, 30, 10, and I work till 6 and then I come home, I have dinner, might watch a movie, we might just chat, we might hang out with the cats, we might have a friend round and do something and that. And then at the weekends we go out and do whatever. I've been going to football games, which is really fun. And so, yeah, I've been basically trying to have a normal life by going, essentially treating my job as if it's a job and going and actually having a 9 to 5 structure and giving myself weekends. And we go on like the odd holiday here and there. And I think it's nice just to live normally because it's such a weird existence living on tour because your life is on pause and nothing really happens because you're just in this world where you're just on tour and you're playing these shows, but everything else goes on around you. So you'll come back home and life has moved forward three years and it's. Yeah, I just wanted to get recalibrated with my life, basically.

That's awesome, man. I'm glad you're getting some time to chill a little.

It's cool. It's really, really nice just doing normal shit. Just doing normal shit. And also, man, the drinking thing, the drinking thing is when you're on tour Every day's a party because every day there'll be a new person in the town that you're visiting that you haven't seen for a while. Like, when I go to Manchester, I see Sophie and when I'm in Glasgow, I see my mate Graham. And, like, there's, like, there's always a new person in town. So every day you're drinking and it becomes normal to be, like, after a show, have a beer, maybe a bottle of vodka, you know, like, it's a. It just turns into an everyday thing. But when you're at home, it's not normal to drink every day. It's normal to drink on a Friday or Saturday. So that, again, gives my life moderation because it's weird if I drink a bottle of wine on a Tuesday night. I did actually do that yesterday, but we had a.

But it wasn't Tuesday.

What was the day yesterday?

Wednesday.

Wednesday. Wednesday on a Wednesday night. Yeah, it wasn't Tuesday. No, but I had. Basically, I had an American friend visiting who just left today because that coronavirus. But, yeah, so that was a exception.

So just in closing, just kind of want to leave it to you. If, you know, like I told you, the idea we shared with you of what this summit is about and the people that it's going to reach. Do you have anything that you'd like to share or leave everyone with? Just something that maybe you've wanted to say but you haven't had the chance to?

Yeah, I think. I think friends are very important and you'd be very surprised of who goes through the same thing as you. So talk to them. Like, it's not weird to be like, I feel sad today. And. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's not. You need to trust that your friends and family love you and that you're not being a burden by seeking out a bit of comfort every now and then, you know, and if the. If you re. If their reaction is negative, then they're not your family and friends and they're the drains that you should cut out of your life. You need. You just need positive people around you. Yeah, I don't know if that's the best advice, but I think my best advice I could give is do exercise. And exercise is so simple. Just fucking run around a park or walk places, walk up escalators if you're on the tube, rather than just standing still, like, just move a bit, you know, get a Fitbit or whatever, you know, diet as well. I think is key. I think it, like, we all Love junk food, but junk food can make you sad. I think there's shit that they put in it as well, like stuff that's in meat that we're not really meant to eat that makes us sad. So yeah, watch, watch what you eat. A salad is not something to be scared of. I used to just see a salad on a plate and be like, why is that there? Fuck that. So, yeah, just eat, eat well, exercise, talk to people. Talking is a great thing. And find something creative to do. Like, you don't have to be a fucking expert at something to enjoy something like, I don't sell my art, I just do my art and I love doing it. It's something that makes me happy. That doesn't. No one else needs to judge. There's no part of the creative process if you're not. People judge my music because I'm trying to sell it to them, you know, but like, if there's no part of a creative process that people judge if you're just doing it for yourself. So yeah, I think try and find something creative and it might make, it might be something really stupid like finding some Lego figures and making a stop motion animation on your phone, like something like that that you can spend an afternoon doing that's, you know, like not, not going to change the world. But it might just make you feel a bit, a bit happier. So, yeah, create. I think creativity is an amazing thing to make people happy because it, you basically can achieve something without, without trying. You just kind of like do it and it's fun.

Well, thanks so much for the chat and thank you and thanks for being, you know, such an inspiration and thanks for, keep going.

Thanks for coming down there. I hope this helps in some way.