249: Member Sessions with Emma Walkinshaw

Gorgeous. Emma Walkinshaw, welcome to her Empire Builder show.

Thank you, Tina. It's an absolute delight to be here. I'm over the moon.

I'm over the moon to have you here. We know each other quite well. We've been in each other's orbit for. For a couple years now. You joined us inside her empire builder in February 2022.

So.

So just over two years, which I'm so stoked. And then launched in August 2022. So it took you like a good few months to get the launch happening there. My first question was, what was your reason for joining before you actually launched? So we have a lot of people. It's like some people will join us before launch, some people will wait and feel like they have to be launched and ready to do it. So I'm really interested in your thinking with that. It was.

It was mostly getting ready to be ready, I felt. So at the time, February 2022, I owned a bricks and mortar Pilates reformer, Pilates and yoga studio on the Gold coast. And I knew that it was time for me to let the studio go. I'd made that decision. I'd already been sort of dabbling in the online. Well, not dabbling, thinking how I needed the how. How do I get online, how do I refine my messaging and where do I start? So I went, I attended your women's online event and you spoke and had these speakers and I thought, oh, Tina's my woman. So I signed up that day. And I'm that person who's incredibly impulsive at. Well, am I? I'm not incredibly impulsive. I know when it feels right and it felt right. So I said yes, joined as a her empire builder and then started to learn while I was getting ready, which I did then sell the studio. But while I was getting ready to sell, it took me. So I was running the studio as well. And then learning from you and the incredible her empire builder community, learning the how, if I was to do this, how would I do it? What's my messaging and where do I start? So you were that answer.

Yeah, I love that. And how long had you been sitting on the. The idea before you were like, you know what? I'm ready to take action on it.

I had the studio for four years and I was definitely dancing in that, going, I've got a bricks and mortar. So I'm going to say probably four or five years before I realized how you get online.

Yeah, but always you wanted to get online.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

A long time to sit on it.

I know. Well, I feel like I kind of went bricks and mortar because I was thinking about, well, how do I get seen and heard? How do you become visible?

Yeah.

So in my train of thought was, perhaps I need to open a bricks and mortar studio.

That credibility level there.

Yeah, yeah. And also to build a database. And at that point, now I know different, thanks to you. But at that point, I felt, this is the way I grow a database. I knew that much. I needed a database. And then from there, I wasn't kind of sure where or where to go. But you had that answer, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was in the same. Same boat. Like, I looked at coming online when I started franchising back in 2011, I was either going to do the tutoring institute online or franchise my bricks and water. And I chose franchising because, like, I knew traditional business. And it seemed, weirdly, it seemed like the safer, more reputable kind of option of, like, this is respectable, like, different locations and having those. Whereas online was still so conceptual to me anyway. The amount of times I've kicked my own ass over that decision was a lot. But eventually, you know, we get there.

Yeah, Tina, I could have done without that studio, quite frankly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I. You know, it is funny when you think that and you perhaps feel the same way, you know, there's no jumping from step to 10, 1 to 10. And the studio and the franchise is just one of those steps.

Yeah.

It's either that one or another makes.

Things easier as well, because, you know, we have. I have a lot of people that will come into online business from, like, employment, and they're like, oh, this is hard. There's a lot to do. But I think after running traditional business, it's so easy because, like, nothing's as hard as, you know, paying your big rent every week, filling your classes. Like, all of the logistics that go on online is, like, so much easier after you've done something like that. So I think that, you know, it all works out how it's supposed to.

It does. Yeah. And I agree with that. Having the. Having the responsibility of having a lease on a bricks and mortar. And I remember someone recently saying to me, they were asking about what I pay for kajabi. And I told them, and they said, oh, gosh, that's expensive. I said, you've gotta be kidding me. Priceless. What I had to pay for a bricks and mortar studio to house my business. And it wasn't like I could just decide to pull the pin next week. I was locked into a three year lease.

Right. Yeah. So online space, it's so good.

Yeah. So much spaciousness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was having the same conversation with someone the other day about like cost to entry and going. Because they're like, you know, can we start an online business for nothing? Well, it was not nothing, but you could, you could start like, I think if you've got a good 5 to $10,000, you can get going in a really professional manner. You could start it for about two, I think. But if you've got five to 10, like, that's a really good buffer. They're like, wow, that's a lot. I'm like, it is a lot. It's a substantial amount of money. When I started my first business, I had 80,000 that I stayed saved up to be able to implement for that. And it was gone before I even opened the doors. Like, we gyprocked the walls, we put in some furniture, like a couple of different things. Like should have ran out of money already, like in terms of barrier to entry. I mean, I know everyone listening to this is probably already in online business, but I'm like preaching to the converted. But it's just beautiful.

Yeah, I agree.

Okay, so I want to talk about how your offers and your actual like Ascension model has evolved since you started. So in the last couple of years, like what did you, what did you first come to market with?

So I came with a program that I'd actually pre purchased called the Clarity Catalyst. I'd already been running that while I had the studio and I ran it before the studio, but it was always face to face. So I had a great program. So I knew that this was, it was tried and tested. I knew that women loved it. I'd already delivered it to over 100 women. So I knew that it was a great, a great program. And then taking it online, I then started to realize, well, what is this Ascension model? And you beautifully educate us in that. And then where do people find me and what's the transformation they go on with me and where do they start? So having this great program was all good and well, but I needed a fabulous lead magnet and I needed to be more visible. That was the two things that if I would think about what you have taught me really well and, and the women in the community is those two things. And then when it comes to messaging, I mean it is really a. It doesn't just pop out of thin air. You actually, you know, my saying is you can't steer a parked car. You actually have to get going to then direct it. Yeah, and thinking about. Yeah, and thinking about, yes. I've got this great program. I'm going online. I actually have to give it a run and keep going and keep refining the messaging and being okay to change your messaging as well. Because as I felt like as I went through, I was starting to get to know myself more as a transformational coach and getting to know what I actually want to offer and what I enjoyed. And the women who were attracted to my offer, what did they need? So that Ascension model has been tremendous. And of course, I've tweaked it and simplified it and complicated and then simply simplified it again. That has been an experience in itself, and I feel like. Like a very still, a very live and vibrant process.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that ever ends. Like, we just celebrated four years of her empire builder, and my messaging and offer has changed throughout the time. And. And I totally love that analogy of the parked car because it is like, often I find people will hold themselves back and go, well, I'm not sure if this is the right way or this is the right way or if this is going to hit with messaging. And it's like, you just need to start. You just need to start and look at it all as like a constant curious experiment so that you can go, all right, well, this landing, this is not like I was even reviewing our last month social media this morning and going, like, what's working and what's not? And what's working is not what used to work. Like, we're never actually done. And when I was looking at. At what is working now, I'm going, gosh, this is. This is the content that we now need to. So I've just like scrapped a whole lot of plan content and gone. All right, we need to put more of this stuff in. So it's. It's constantly being open to that changing. But you said a couple of things there that I want to ask more about. So. So the first is staying on offers for a moment. So you Clarity Catalyst, and then how. How did that change into what you did next? And then we'll get to where you are currently with your offer.

I found that the Clarity Catalyst was a great base, but because I purchased that program, I felt like I hadn't quite embodied it myself. And then through working through women, I started to realize what, again, like you're saying, Tina, what my women needed and wanted. So it has evolved and, and being okay to come out and say, I run the Clarity Cat and being known for that and then actually saying that no longer is available. This is the direction I'm going in. That's taken a bit of courage, but it has landed much more for me. And also then traction has started to move more in terms of that magnetism to the women that I want to work with. So that took a little bit of courage to change that messaging. Did I answer that question? I hope I did. Yeah, you did.

Because it's. It's very insightful in going. It's. It's after you start that you realize, like, you'll. You'll want to work with a group more than someone else. You're like, these are the people that I want to create something for because I want more of this place. Which is what you've done.

Yeah, yeah.

And so what does your office suite look like now?

So now I have my. I guess you could say my lead magnet, which is my community of 21 minutes of morning magic, which is wonderful. So I practice three mornings a week because a lot of the work that I teach is tapping into your intuition or your voice of wisdom and letting go of your voice of judgment. And I found it's all good to talk about this conceptually, but how do I do that? Almost like what her empire did for me and what you've done for me, Tina, is give me the how. Don't tell me. You can have this great online business and it's all, you know, unicorns and popsicle stands and everything. Everyone's living a fat old life. Tell me the how. So with my offer, the 21 minutes of morning magic is the how. Well, if I was stuck to start to listen to my voice of wisdom, how do I do that? We've got to get quiet, and you've got to move your voice of judgment out of the way. So because I'm a yoga teacher too, you know, the practice of yoga and quietening the mind is the perfect way to do that. So 21 minutes of morning magic. I came up with this concept because we're also all. So I'm going to use the word busy. We don't have a long time to sit and meditate and even. How do you do that? And what is that? So the 21 minutes of morning magic is just a little bit of yoga, a little bit of movement for seven minutes, and then we meditate for seven minutes, and then we journal for seven minutes. So that's where people come into my world and start to practice that and have some wins themselves. How do I actually listen to this intuition, or what is it even like to have a. A practice of journaling daily? So that's where people find me. And then from there, they can either choose to come in. So this is how my ascension model works. And they can either choose to do this.

An incredible lead magnet by the like.

Thank you, Tina.

Yes. We will link to all of Emma's stuff in the show notes too. So if you're like, this sounds delicious. Just scroll down and click on that and you can get access to it as well.

And, Tina, can I do a little shameless plug?

Yeah.

The book is out to the 365.

Days of morning Magic. Congratulations, Elle.

Thank you, Tina. So that. And that's another thing. The ascension model. Right. Coming back to her empire builder. And you've written two incredible books, Tina, which I love. And then that was the other idea that just evolved. So through this 21 minutes of morning magic and me realizing what women I want to attract and what I like to do, because I was pre writing a theme for 21 minutes of morning magic, it turned into a book, 365 Days of Morning Magic, which just evolved through this journey of being in your world for two years and being committed and consistent. I think that's the other thing too. Not getting the wobbles or, you know, I'm the first to admit I've had many wobbles where I thought, oh, my goodness, what am I even doing? We do get the wobbles. But then going, hang on a moment. Stay committed, stay consistent. Just keep going. It's okay. So that was how the book came from that and then from there, women can either come with me into the embodiment program, which is an evolution of the Clarity Catalyst. So swinging back to that, the Clarity Catalyst I purchased, then I've evolved it to the embodimen feel. It's more me. And I've morphed that and recreated that whole program and also retreats. That's the other thing I've been running. So India. Last year, I took. Excuse me. This year. This year, March India took 13 women to India. Next year, we'll go again in March. And I've already sold 10 tickets to that. And again, back to the. The India retreat. Even though. Is it technically online? No. However, all of the marketing principles that I sold that retreat at, I sold six spots in the first 72 hours. And even this retreat. This one? Yeah, this one here. I think in the first week, I've sold 10 days, I've sold 10 tickets to India, and I feel like this is also through the principles of her empire builder and marketing and just staying with your messaging and serving your people.

Yeah.

But that's what I've learned is it is really, you know, we can talk about Ascension model, but it's a really beautiful process of how you connect with your community and market.

Yeah.

So I feel like that's also how I've done that as well. And of course I do one on one coaching as well. So pretty much all I really offer is 21 minutes of morning magic and a book. Now one on one coaching retreats or embody me program.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Ascension model.

Yes.

Beautiful. Yes.

Thanks to you, Tina. I have. It took me a little while to land here but she. It feels good now. Yeah, it feels really good.

How long like you launched in August 22nd. How long did it feel like? How long did it take you before you felt like I've got this.

I'm going to say potentially six months.

Yeah, that's good.

Six months to really be willing to feel like I was stuck and then make a bit of progress and feel like I regressed and then go again. And even just getting kajabi set up, getting my.

Such a steep learning curve. The beginning, it's so, so many things.

And Tina Canva, I mean I know you speak of this magical thing, Canva, and you love it. Whereas for me, not my happy place, but you know, Canva and I have a subscription and. Yeah.

And now the templates, you can use the monthly templates.

And I have help now too, which is wonderful. So I do have a little team member who is tremendous, who helps with all of that stuff. But that's been also a process too. But it is all fallen into place. It's taken, you know. Has it taken a long time? No, probably not.

You know, in hindsight it doesn't take a long time. But it's like while you're in that like thick of it at the beginning, like I think your first hundred thousand is really hard. Like there's no. I know we're bombarded with all of these messages online of like, it's so easy and anyone can have it, but it is like it is hard. You're doing things you've never had to do before, new concepts that you haven't understood before. You're doing stuff that you're like, I don't know if I can do this. If I can't do this. I'm showing myself. Like it's such a mental battle. It's such an emotional battle. Like it's all of the things that once you get past that, it's like, oh, I've been here before. Like I just need to refine and do that. And it gets so much easier. But that beginning is tough.

And it is, I think self belief and confidence to really backing yourself because it is such a mindset. And I feel like that's where her empire builder being in the community, it's a lot of high vibe women which are tremendous in a lot of ways because I know myself, I've reached out, you know, I've created some really great friendships and relationships and they are your people that you can reach out to in launch and go, I've got the wobbles. And they give you a really firm talking to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like here, I'm here for my pep talk. I'm ready. I'm trained for this. Let's go.

This is exactly right. And it's, it's literally a text message going, have you got 20 minutes to talk? Talk. Talk to me. And it's like, call me now, sister.

Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. And so you said at the start that I want to ask a little bit more about too is one of the biggest things that you had to change and develop was getting more visible. How did you go about doing that?

That is still a process. It is still a process in itself and it is getting out of your own way and knowing that me really knowing I'm here for the greater good for my women and being the example, you know, I cannot speak and say I'm a transformational coach. And stop sitting on the sidelines, ladies, and let's tap into your voice of wisdom. If I'm not doing that. So it really is for the greater good of the community and it is a practice. Then it becomes even more natural and that self belief and then the, the wins that you have along the way. And it's also the question, how bad do I want it? How much do I want this for my community and how bad do I want it to live this wonderful life and go to India. If I don't show up, no one knows I'm going to India. You can't sell a secret.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

So it's just showing up. So the visibility thing and then you bought into that too. Tina, is the own little journey of being okay with being in a size 16 body and doing yoga. Yeah, that's another little journey of my own is showing up and saying it's okay. You don't need to tell Yourself that you're not pretty enough or you're not skinny enough or you're not X, Y, or Zed. You're perfectly imperfect. Show up. Your women need you. Yeah, that's been a process.

Let's quote that one. Yes, very, very true. What has been the most, like, personally difficult evolution for you over the last couple of years? What has been the part that you've gone. This is. This is a harder one to break through. Besides Canva.

Besides that. Damn it, Canva. It would be. Yeah, it would be the showing up, actually showing up and not feeling like I have to be perfect showing up, you know, and 21 minutes of morning magic has really got me out of that. I am there without any makeup on, no hair, in my yoga gear. So it is the showing up and the women in the community seeing the real. Should I say the real Emma, not the polished Emma, the real Emma.

And I think that's something that you learn to. Well, you learn to embrace more as you go. I know even when I started, I would blow dry my hair, I would put my makeup on, I would put my best clothes on. And then the thing is, if I wanted to show up every day and do that and do Instagram, like, it just wasn't consistent because that wasn't what I wanted. And I know some people love to do that, that every day. Like the. I know my grandma, every day, she did her hair and she put her face on, and that's how she liked to go into the world. But that's not. Doesn't come naturally to me. I'm more of a natural, you know, take me as I am kind of gal. I'd rather spend my time in a million different ways than half an hour in the bathroom every morning putting my face on. So I did that. And then when I started going, if I want to show up for people and actually teach and train and educate, which is really my number one goal is I want to take the complex things, make them simple, and help people. It doesn't matter how much mascara I have on my eyes to be able to deliver that. But it felt weird at the start, and when I embraced that and then just would come as I was now I can do a story from anywhere. I can go live from any time, because it's like, you know what. You know what I look like. So we're. We're good here.

And I actually loved the conversation that we had at the most recent conference here on the Gold coast, and. And we had a speaker, and she talked about using a Filter or not using a filter. And it was great to have the conversation with. With peers about how do we feel about that. And some people are absolutely no filter. No. Just show up as you are. Other people, like, well, I'm going to have a filter because it allows me to show up. Yeah. And if that's a barrier, use the filter. I sit in both camps.

Yeah.

I really want to get to a place where I don't need to have a filter. I don't need to have hair and makeup done, and I do, in my group, my 21 minutes of morning magic. But I feel that's a very protected group where people already love and adore me. So it's safe. But I really would love to work to a place where it doesn't matter whether you've got a filter on your lipstick, on your mascara. It actually doesn't matter. Transcending to that place is most definitely. But that's probably been my biggest Achilles heel around the visibility, is thinking that I have to look a certain way to feel presentable or to feel confident.

Yeah.

And I think age is a beautiful thing. And the more you show up online, the more I'm starting to let go of that belief. Because it actually doesn't matter.

No. And it. I mean, I think there's a difference between, like, showing up as a slob and. And just not, like, doing yourself up to the nines. I always think, you know, you look nice and you look presentable, like you would if you're stepping out of the house and going to the grocery store kind of thing. That's my level of okay. But the whole filter thing, like, as. As you know, but people listening probably don't know. I stopped using filters in 2021 after a launch, and I walked past a mirror and looked and went, holy shit. Like, I look really tired. And I realized it wasn't my face. It was that I'd spent so long watching myself through filters that that augmented reality had become my perception of myself. And then I, like, felt like I was missing something without the filter. And I was like, I'm not doing this again. Like, I had a moral thing about it in going, I'm not doing that. Also, I work with a lot of men. Like, up until that point, a lot of my coaching clients have been men. A lot of my consulting clients have been men. Weirdly, most of my VIP intensive days and private clients have been men. And they don't do anything to their hair and their face. They put on their suit and out they go. And so I'M like, there's a lot you can do with with a blazer and a pair of earrings. I have learned is is one of the I always have the earrings next to me to put in the blazer on if I have to look like schmick. But I was like, I'm not going to spend all my time on doing this because I want to show to people that you can show up up as you are. Mind you, Emma, there's been more than one occasion that I have regretted that decision and gone. I'm going and I go, oh, you know, you don't look good every day. And I'm like, I'm looking tired today. But it's just, you know, it is what it is. And, and I think I'm not coming online to be a model. I'm not trying to be an influencer. I'm trying to be a business educator. I am a strategist. And if people would judge for not wearing makeup with that like. And that's why I love that you've said, you know, You're a size 16 yoga teacher. You're a really good yoga teacher. You are really good at getting women to connect with themselves and listen to themselves. Do you need to be a size 6, 20 year old, filtered up, made up person to do that? I think it'll probably work against you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is, this is the embracing it.

And mean to go on a bit of a rant there though.

I love it. No, because I think this is a message for women. If you want to show up, you don't have to be whatever you think that is. And you're Tina. Maybe I'm going to take this challenge and let go of any filters when I'm tempted. You've set the challenge. And also because I want to embrace to aging with grace. I want to embrace this beautiful body that I have in menopause and beyond. And maybe it is time to let go of the filters. And this is a beautiful thing about the evolution of being online and getting with other women is going it's okay for me to show up because like you say, Tina, it's not. You still are goddamn good strategist and you help women elevate their business. It doesn't matter if you have lipstick on or not.

Yeah. It's also the like because we do so much in person as well with speaking and events and there was a period there where I felt like it's why I never airbrush or do Photoshop on any photos as well is because you show up to something live. And. And I felt like I was showing up and going, like, sorry about my face right now. I know I look different to my pictures that are like, all photoshopped because that's what photographers did five years ago, but now it's like, don't touch them. Like, how they come is. Is how we want to look, and we want to look like us all the time. That may be. And just embrace it.

Yeah. And beautiful lighting does wonder wonders, right?

Yes. Natural light is your best friend as a course creator? Yes, very much. Okay. What have you surprised yourself with the most since you started your course creation journey? What have you been like? Damn, did good there.

Yeah. I'm gonna say it's the podcast. I have abs. So under your encouragement, one of the goals that I said, I believe was it was. Where were we? We were in Port Douglas.

Yeah.

So Port Douglas was June, And I said 2023. Correct. And I wrote down that my absolute six month within the six months. So from June to the December, I was going to have a podcast and listening to the women in the room.

And always thought, like, you know, I've just got to do what I've got to do until I can do what I want to do and just got to get through it and. And just grind it and hustle and do all of the things. And the amount of times I will just marvel that I get paid to do this job that I get to work with. People like, to me, and this is what I think a lot of course creators have in common is people create a course or create this online ecosystem.

That I know under your suggestion, which was great, which I thought this is what I'll do. You said just do a season. Maybe go for 12, do a season and then see how you go, no, episode 30, not stopping.

It's a much easier way to start psychologically, though, than to go, okay, I'm going to do an episode every week forever. Yeah.

Yeah. Which was a really lovely way to think. It's just a season. Commit to it. And I feel too, again, just like with the showing up and just like with the online, it's a practice and it's an art. And how do you get good at something unless you keep doing it? So I feel like I'm still refining and it's lovely when I run into someone, they go, oh, I listen to your podcast. And yeah, you. And I do get like a little bit embarrassed. I'm going to go, oh, goodness gracious, what did I say? Like, you think that? And then some goes, oh, I really wouldn't like when you said that or did it. So that's been incredibly enjoyable. Yeah, really. So that's.

It's my favorite medium. Like, it's. It's my favorite. But I agree with the, like, when people will quote back to me because often, especially with solo episodes, I will go into my own little world and just start chatting and you forget that so many people are listening to it. You go, oh, yeah, I did. I did, did say that out loud. Yeah. But it's a. That's what makes it so good to connect with as well.

Yeah. Yes. Fabulous. So that's been my biggest surprise and love it. So thank you.

Tina, you so beautiful the way you're like, thank you. You're just so kind. What advice do you give to others who are wanting to level up their online business, who maybe have that idea, maybe started something and going, I want to go all in on this. And at the moment, like, that unknown is. Is scary. What's your advice?

Be committed and be consistent and lose the expectations of a timeline, because it's not necessarily on your timeline. But it will happen. Yeah, it will happen again.

Right.

It's just being committed and consistent and doing one thing. Not mastering it, but doing one thing and getting the wheels happening on that one. Then do the next thing, like the podcast, the newsletter, the lead magnet, you know, the. The social media posts, but just kind of. It's almost like getting all the. The. The plates spinning or all the wheels to. Or it's like the. All the cogs turning and then all of a sudden. Yeah, you've got like a little machine happening that is producing something beautiful to your community or. And then there is a financial gain of that. And Tina, I am so close in Kajabi. You will be the first person that I screenshot this to. I am so close to my six figures in my Kajabi, the 100K. I am so close. And that is incredibly exciting because I didn't realize that that would happen. Well, of course I did. It was a goal. But it's really lovely to actually see that materialize. And that's very, very exciting.

So excited. And you've got to sell it. How are you going to celebrate it?

Oh, how will I celebrate? I think a lovely dinner out with husband. With my husband would be lovely.

I think it's. It's a worthwhile milestone. One thing that I always try and do is, is have those milestones and take stock, because otherwise what happens is you constantly go, okay, I've made that. What's my next goal now can I do that in the next year? Now can I do, like, you'll just go to the next goal, which is great, but you also have to take the time to go, look at what I did. I did it.

Yes. Yeah, the book's a bit like that, too. The. So I'm going to have a little book launch with girlfriends. I'm going to have a high. It just to really mark the moment and say, I did it. I said I wouldn't. I did. It's just that committed and consistent for me. I said I wouldn't. I did.

Yeah. I love that. And now it's like. Like I've said already, like, that first six figures is the hardest. Like, you people tend to. When you've got the staying power and you're consistent up until that point, you fly past there. It's like, that's. That's the hard part, because like you said, it's trying to get all of the pieces and all of those cogs working all at once. But then now you've got them there, and so now it's just, okay, how can we dial it all up? And it just. It's so much easier. So I'm so excited for this stage for you.

Thank you. Yeah, it's taken a little bit of tweaking to get these cogs going, but I feel like now where. Where we've got some momentum building, so.

Good. Okay, my final question for you because I. I just. This is for pure personal interest. What does success look like to you?

What does success look like to me? Feeling like I am rewarded for my gifts and talents. That feels quite successful to me and rewarded in many different ways. So even if I give the example, going to India, that feels. Feels like the most blissful experience. To go to India and travel with women that I love and it be a profitable part of my business. That retreat is profitable. That feels like success to me, that I get to have these incredible experiences with people that I really adore. And it is. It's for the greater good for everyone. That's profitable. That feels like success to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Beautiful way to look at it. It is the amount of times that I will talk to friends and go, like, because I have. This is my 20th year in business, and I have done a lot of businesses that have not been fun, that I've always thought, like, you know, I've just got to do what I've got to do until I can do what I want to do and just got to get through it and and just grind it and hustle and do all of the things and the amount of time.